American Excess

[classicman]

I am not sure, but l think it is because
1) the system is not perfect and
2) because the resources are being used for non-citizens

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by lookout123

Yes they were. They knowingly broke the law. We are taught from early on that breaking the law is wrong. Breaking the law makes us worthy of punishment. The law itself may be morally repugnant and worthy of being overturned, but if the law is upheld then you are accountable to that law.

Breaking the law makes us subject to punishment, not worthy of it. We are taught from early on that breaking the law is wrong, because that's an easy shorthand to teach children, until they can learn to judge authority. It's the equivalent of, "because I said so."

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

I never said that our "citizens are dying left and right". What I said was that illegals get free health care while the working poor get nada.

You said that liberals said there was not enough health coverage, and to refute those bleeding hearts you said that the working poor got none. Not a particularly convincing refutation. Or were you advocating that the working poor go to the ER for checkups like those lucky ducky illegals?

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

You said that liberals said there was not enough health coverage, and to refute those bleeding hearts you said that the working poor got none. Not a particularly convincing refutation. Or were you advocating that the working poor go to the ER for checkups like those lucky ducky illegals?

Oh they do. I know plenty who do and see them do so. I definately would not advocate it. See legal citzens who have a SSN, a home, a place of employment, etc. are targets of debt collectors when they can't pay their ER bill, illegal aliens, who get the same care, are off the hook in that respect.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by lookout123

i think the point is that resources are being used by people they were unintended for, thus reducing the resources available for the US citizens.

Correct. And although it is a huge drain on our system it is not the only reason our system is broken. There are many reasons things are not working. Throwing more money is not the answer.

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Oh they do. I know plenty who do and see them do so. I definately would not advocate it. See legal citzens who have a SSN, a home, a place of employment, etc. are targets of debt collectors when they can't pay their ER bill, illegal aliens, who get the same care, are off the hook in that respect.

It sounds like if the working poor were able to go to the doctor with the same expectation as the illegals - quality care without debt collectors - they would be able to get even better care.

[BigV]

Originally Posted by aimeecc

--snip--so why not make them legal (with obviously some scrutiny... don't want felons to stay)? If they become legal, ...--snip--

Originally Posted by lookout123

we tried amnesty in the '80's. --snip--

From wikipedia, an adequate resource for this purpose.

Amnesty (from the Greek amnestia, oblivion) is an act of justice by which the supreme power in a state restores those who may have been guilty of any offense against it to the position of innocent persons. It includes more than pardon, inasmuch as it obliterates all legal remembrance of the offense. The word has the same root as amnesia.

I'm so sick of hearing the word "amnesty" abused in this way.

"Making them legal" != "amnesty". It *could be*, but it doesn't have to be. There have been several suggestions as to the method by which the immigrants that are here could be "made legal". Some of these include punishments, which is in perfect harmony with much of the rest of our legal system, where a person found guilty of a crime pays a penalty. After which life goes on. Nobody ever raises a stink about amnesty after the completion of the penalty phase for these other crimes. I think this narrow issue should be treated in a comparable way, and not used as a trigger for hysterical fearmongering demagogues.

C'mon people. You can do better.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

It sounds like if the working poor were able to go to the doctor with the same expectation as the illegals - quality care without debt collectors - they would be able to get even better care.

Quite possible.

[Happy Monkey]

You called bull shit on the bleeding hearts for saying that.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

You called bull shit on the bleeding hearts for saying that.

I call bull shit on anything a bleeding heart says.