Men Abortion and Choice

[piercehawkeye45]

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

Funny, I see my opinion as equality and your's as matriarchal.

Can you explain that further because I do not see how I am being matriarchal?


Lets pretend we don't have any laws and are in a completely neutral society for a second. If a woman wants to have an abortion she can have one without a man's permission. That is about as natural as you can get. That means the woman has the natural say on the issue so right now we do not have a patriarchal or matriarchal society since neither gender is powering over another.

You are saying that a man should have a right to force a woman to go through pregnancy. That means you are saying the man should have an unnatural amount of say on the issue, making it patriarchal.

[wolf]

What's unnatural is pretending the only one person, the woman, is responsible for the pregnancy. "My body my choice" is just rhetoric from the pro-abortion side.

[piercehawkeye45]

Stop changing what I am saying. It takes two people to get pregnant but only one has to deal with it.

And I see it as the man has as much right to the fetus as the womans as it is half his.
Your view is matriarchal because you feel the woman should have sole choice in the matter.
You are saying the woman should have the right to force the man to allow his child to be aborted with no say.
For you it is all for nothing, I am not saying that.
I am saying if the man states he is willing to accept full custody, and only then, he can take responsibility for the child.
Can a man force a woman to have an abortion if he does not want a child?
Why not? By your logic, if someone does not want a child they should not be FORCED to have it in the world.
Same thing.

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

I am saying if the man states he is willing to accept full custody, and only then, he can take responsibility for the child.

But he can't. It's in her body. He can't take custody.

By your logic, if someone does not want a child they should not be FORCED to BRING it inTO the world.
Same thing.

I fixed the quote. Neither the man nor the woman should be forced to carry the fetus to term, if they don't want to.

[piercehawkeye45]

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

And I see it as the man has as much right to the fetus as the womans as it is half his.

Yet, she has to feed and put up with it for nine months while you don't have to do anything, hardly equal.

Your view is matriarchal because you feel the woman should have sole choice in the matter.

She is not forcing her views on anyone though. If a woman wants to get an abortion she is not forcing any view on anyone else, if a man wants to stop an abortion he has to force his views on her. That is why your view is patriarchal and I am not matriarchal. You are forcing your views on other people while the woman is not forcing anything on the man. The system is naturally unequal.

You are saying the woman should have the right to force the man to allow his child to be aborted with no say.

How can you force a man to allow his child to be aborted? Once his sperm leaves his body he has no control over what happens to the baby so nothing can be forced upon him.

I am saying if the man states he is willing to accept full custody, and only then, he can take responsibility for the child.

In an ideal world I would love for that to happen, but as long as the woman gives birth it can not be equalized. If you can find a way where a woman doesn't have to give birth then your point is valid, until then it isn't.

Can a man force a woman to have an abortion if he does not want a child?

Yes he can physically but that would be a man forcing his influence on a woman. As long as a woman gives birth she has an unequal say on the matter, and until you can find a way for woman not to give birth it will stay that way.

Why not? By your logic, if someone does not want a child they should not be FORCED to have it in the world.

Because the man doesn't give birth to the child he can not be forced to have it. Once the sperm leaves his body, he does not have natural control on the matter.

[wolf]

The woman can force the man, even if not the biological father, but just the named one, to provide financial support up to the age of 18.

By your logic, no man should ever be forced to take any responsibility for their children in any way.
Edit:
Creepy wolf... same time.

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

By your logic, no man should ever be forced to take any responsibility for their children in any way.

Some may make it seem so, but extracting money is not actually a medical procedure.

[DanaC]

I don't actually think men should be forced to take responsibility for their child.

I do, parents are parents.
Make a child, they are yours for life.
Men and women are equal.

[Happy Monkey]

That is a place where the law can, and should, be more gender-blind, though the chances of misidentifying the mother are considerably lower.

[DanaC]

I do, parents are parents.
Make a child, they are yours for life.
Men and women are equal.

So do you think all parents should be forced to look after their children for life, even if they are not suited to it and the child would be better off with someone else? Maybe we should ban adoption. We could allow it in extreme circumstances where the parents are killed, but other than that all parents should be forced to parent.

[freshnesschronic]

The Matrix would solve everything!

[lumberjim]

wow, her new guy must have a big cock.