Mugabe: How Much Longer In Power?

[skysidhe]

Originally Posted by Aliantha

Then who?

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

African Nations. I felt the same way when we went to Bosnia, not our problem, that is Europe's problem. Same for Somalia, screw that place. And now Darfur, not our problem.

China. It should be their problem.

[Urbane Guerrilla]

I disagree with Mercenary -- it is hardly "not our business" to eliminate oppression, is it? Not, at any rate, as long as any human feeling is in our hearts.

Of course, if human feeling has been deliberately excised...

Well, that's not the road to virtue.

Given the collapsed state of the Zimbabwean economy, economic sanctions however stringent would hardly even be felt. You'll see results when you remove the bad actors who perpetuate the situation. Where's the reason to restrict the amount of force used in the removal?

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

I disagree with Mercenary -- it is hardly "not our business" to eliminate oppression, is it? Not, at any rate, as long as any human feeling is in our hearts.

Of course, if human feeling has been deliberately excised...

Well, that's not the road to virtue.

Given the collapsed state of the Zimbabwean economy, economic sanctions however stringent would hardly even be felt. You'll see results when you remove the bad actors who perpetuate the situation. Where's the reason to restrict the amount of force used in the removal?

In countries such as Zimbab, as impoverished and unstable as it has been, as raped as it has been by those in power, and in a place that has been beaten into the ground for the last 25 plus years since they kicked out the whites, to simply remove the dictator (as much as I agree with it) would give the victor the same set of problems that we have in Iraq. An unstable, post coup d’état and sucking black hole of people trying to take advantage of the lull in anarchy. It would only work with the complete support of the Army and Generals in charge who could stay on and maintain order. It would still take tens of years for it to recover economically. We don't need another briar patch.

[TheMercenary]

Now this is inflation:

http://www.news24.com/News24/Africa/...360284,00.html

Kicking out the only group of people who can feed the masses:

http://www.news24.com/News24/Africa/...358773,00.html

Everything you always wanted to know about Zimbabwe:
http://www.news24.com/News24/Africa/Zimbabwe/Home

[TheMercenary]

Zim 'shames' most Africans
18/07/2008 15:31 - (SA)

London - Zimbabwe's current plight "shames most Africans", former United Nations chief Kofi Annan said in an interview published on Friday, while voicing hope for a negotiated solution to the country's crisis.

The Nobel Peace Prize winner, offering to help resolve the standoff as he did earlier this year in Kenya, urged the West not to let Zimbabwe's situation strengthen the image of Africa as a continent in crisis.

"Zimbabwe shames most Africans but at the same time it's wrong to judge the whole continent on what is happening there, it is not a litmus test for the region," he told The Observer newspaper.

"Mozambique came through a civil war extremely admirably. You have Botswana doing extremely well, Malawi is making great steps to improve food production," he said, according to the website of the weekly's sister paper the Guardian.

(continues)
http://www.news24.com/News24/Africa/...359941,00.html

[Aliantha]

On a further note, Zimbabwe just printed their first 10 billion dollar notes.

[xoxoxoBruce]

You're behind, Merc's first link is for the 100 billion note.

[Aliantha]

Oh...well never mind. Things are a bit slower here.

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Once ZANU is put on history's ash heap, and I won't be too nice about how I'd get it there, for I figure the deader they are... probably the fastest fix to their money problems would be to adopt the South African Rand, as a stable currency with a stable base. To that end, I'd restrict exports of gold by a third to a half, the government trading for/buying bullion, to build up a gold reserve for the currency and strengthen faith in money again. Right now in Z they haven't any at all, and with ample reason. Some gold would still be exported for the sake of foreign exchange and hard-currency getting.

[TheMercenary]

The problem with most of Africa is that it is ripe with governmental corruption. People who think we have a problem have never been to Africa.

[Aliantha]

Anyone been to practically any Asian country lately? (or in the last thousand years)

Most if not all developing nations are run by corrupt government bodies including police.

As an example, one of my cousins was recently in an Asian country and got caught doing something wrong which could have seen him jailed for years, but he paid off the officers who picked him up and was free to go within minutes.

[Rhianne]

If you're confident you live in a country with no govenmental corruption Aliantha, and with no unprincipled police then I truly envy you.

[Aliantha]

Clearly you have misread my post. I didn't say there was no corruption within the government of the country I live. There has been, on a grand scale in fact.

My point was simply to suggest that Africa is not the only continent with such corruption, and that you will find very similar evidence of blatant corruption in many Asian countries also. In developed nations, such as the US, Uk, European countries, corruption exists, but is far more heavily policed at lower levels than it is in developing nations.

I hope that's clear enough for you now.

[ZenGum]

[reflects that Ali lives in Queensland, AKA the moonlight state]



Ok, that was 20 years ago. And the royal commision cleaned it all up.

(Note to non-Aussies: in the late 1980s there was an inquiry that exposed pretty serious police corruption at all levels in Queensland. Nothing on that scale since, but the stain is still visible from here.)

[Aliantha]

I was actually thinking of the wheat board, but Mr Fitzgerald and his enquiry did cross my mind.