Science, Religion, and the Surrounding Confusion.

[Shawnee123]

While we watch GM plants shut down all the time. The industry can't keep up with 40 dollar an hour wages. And, I know many people who have worked in these union high-paying shops and many have said they really don't work very hard. Sometimes they play cards.

The Honda plants around here have a much better model, imho. They pay really good wages (25/hour is typical), have no union, the employees work their butts off, and everyone is happy. They tend to not need lay-offs and shutdowns.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by classicman

snip~ but I've heard too many stories to the contrary.

The stories are never a complete picture, only the highlights, that are cherry picked, to make the storytellers point.

Originally Posted by Shawnee123

While we watch GM plants shut down all the time. The industry can't keep up with 40 dollar an hour wages. And, I know many people who have worked in these union high-paying shops and many have said they really don't work very hard. Sometimes they play cards.

The Honda plants around here have a much better model, imho. They pay really good wages (25/hour is typical), have no union, the employees work their butts off, and everyone is happy. They tend to not need lay-offs and shutdowns.

Which proves that American workers are willing to return a days work for a fair wage. If they are not working, ie playing cards, then it's definitely a management problem.

[classicman]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

The stories are never a complete picture, only the highlights, that are cherry picked, to make the storytellers point.

True, but I've heard them from both sides and the topic of conversation was not about this subject. Workers being paid $30 an hour versus $30 a month put are at a severe disadvantage in a world economy.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Trained, equipped and motivated, $30/hr workers, can certainly compete with $3/hr unskilled workers, by being more productive and producing better quality.

There is no union shop where a bum can't be terminated for not doing their job... none.
There's always contract language that requires management to follow a set procedure, to prevent termination at the whim of a supervisor, to make room for the wife's nephew, or without just cause.
You may not like him, but you can't fire him if he's doing his job properly.

I have, however, seen too many cases of terminated minorities/handicapped, going to the Labor Board (government) claiming prejudice, then being reinstated when in fact they were a bum. This is not an option for the rest of us.