There are no illegal immigrants in America

[Radar]

If anything goes and the government doesn't abide by the limits on its powers and works to violate our rights instead of defend them and practices imperialism, it's time to overthrow the government and regardless of what people think, an armed revolution in America still has a great chance of success....if we can get enough of the apathetic, lazy, people with short attention spans to get their asses off the couch to fight.

The problem is decades of government education has made people stupidly believe their rights come from government or from "society" and they think government is all powerful and is above the people rather than being our servant.

Unfortunately people think as long as they have cable tv and microwave meals, they are free. I've been trying to figure out exactly what it would take to get people to actually stand up and take up arms, but the government's actions are out in the open now and people still don't care. It's like alcoholism. You can't help someone fix a problem if they don't even recognize that they have one.

During my years of political activism, I found myself constantly reminded of a quote from the movie, The Matrix. It's when Morpheus is showing Neo what the Matrix really is.

Originally Posted by Morpheus

Morpheus: The Matrix is a system, Neo. That system is our enemy. But when you're inside, you look around and what do you see? Businessmen, Teachers, Lawyers, Carpenters...the very minds of the people we're trying to save. But until we do, these people are still a part of that system, and that makes them our enemy. You have to understand, most of these people are not ready to be unplugged. And many of them are so inert, so hopelessly dependent on the system that they will that they will fight to protect it.

[Kitsune]

Originally Posted by Radar

You can't help someone fix a problem if they don't even recognize that they have one.

Did you ever think that what we are right now is exactly what the majority wants us to be? That if it all came down to a vote, this is exactly where we'd end up all over again because people enjoy living this way?

[regular.joe]

O.K. lets see. The Government today has not told me what to do with my money, my time, my travel destination, where I live, who I talk and associate with. I've traveled between 3 states over the xmas holidays and was not stopped, anywhere for anything. Even though it's illegal, I could probably by crack or a gun on the corner downtown somewhere. The reason I can do this illegal activity is because of our great freedoms here.

I for one have not been restricted in any way in the freedoms that I have been so graciously afforded in these great United States. There was that time I was arrested in Macedonia...but then I was IN MACEDONIA.

I for one do not like this talk of armed overthrow of the United States. Especially from a citizen who enjoys the freedoms here. I will not sit idly by and listen to such drivel.

You just made an open threat to overthrow the U.S. I get paid to take such statements seriously. You will probably say, if you were investigated that your rights were being violated. What utter nonsense. Right now, if you pick up arms against the U.S., you pick up arms against me. Be warned, and do not make such statements lightly.

[Radar]

Originally Posted by Kitsune

Did you ever think that what we are right now is exactly what the majority wants us to be? That if it all came down to a vote, this is exactly where we'd end up all over again because people enjoy living this way?

Did you ever think that we shouldn't have what the majority wants? I happen to think my rights are more important than what the majority wants. I also don't think people enjoy living this way. If you ask people if they like paying income taxes, or having their children and grandchildren born into debt, having their rights attacked, etc. my guess is they'd say no.

[Radar]

Originally Posted by regular.joe

O.K. lets see. The Government today has not told me what to do with my money, my time, my travel destination, where I live, who I talk and associate with. I've traveled between 3 states over the xmas holidays and was not stopped, anywhere for anything. Even though it's illegal, I could probably by crack or a gun on the corner downtown somewhere. The reason I can do this illegal activity is because of our great freedoms here.

I for one have not been restricted in any way in the freedoms that I have been so graciously afforded in these great United States. There was that time I was arrested in Macedonia...but then I was IN MACEDONIA.

I for one do not like this talk of armed overthrow of the United States. Especially from a citizen who enjoys the freedoms here. I will not sit idly by and listen to such drivel.

You just made an open threat to overthrow the U.S. I get paid to take such statements seriously. You will probably say, if you were investigated that your rights were being violated. What utter nonsense. Right now, if you pick up arms against the U.S., you pick up arms against me. Be warned, and do not make such statements lightly.

Be warned, if an armed revolution takes place to return America to the people of America and you stand in my way, I will gun you down and you will die like a dog. You would be smart not to take that lightly either.

[fargon]

[Kitsune]

Originally Posted by Radar

If you ask people if they like paying income taxes, or having their children and grandchildren born into debt, having their rights attacked, etc. my guess is they'd say no.

Food, water, shelter, fuel. Those will be what start an armed revolution, not the desire to perfect the current government. Direct threats to lives have the ability to trigger the fight response in people and you're simply not going to see that in this age of comfort and fortune in the US. No one is going to feel the need to rebel when they're mind knows they're warm, fat, and happy. Only the desperate fight. You're absolutely kidding yourself if you think anyone is going to pick up a gun over this. Do it and you'll be lauded as a nutcase.

Tell you what -- go ahead and take up arms and tell others you're doing it in the name of handing over immigration law to the states in support of the people flooding over the border. I'm sure there will be waves of support right behind you.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Yelling, Viva Senior Radar.

[piercehawkeye45]

Originally Posted by Radar

The problem is decades of government education has made people stupidly believe their rights come from government or from "society" and they think government is all powerful and is above the people rather than being our servant.

Our differences in our philosophy of rights have very little to do with revolution, but more in tolerance of different laws. If there is a law that the people feel is unnecessary, people will not be happy no matter were they think rights come from. Also, the government teaches your version of rights, not mine.

[Griff]

Seriously Radar, government employees have no problem killing for a steady paycheck. People are really good at rationalizing their actions. When you put that up against a set of ideas that people won't even vote for, you're going to lose. Just sit back and wait for the system to collapse under the weight of irrelevence. Our system of government will disappear as a side note, not as a major event. Centralization is failing. While you wait, live a good, joyous, productive life so that you won't regret the failure of the revolution on your death bed. Proven idiots like Che wasted their and others' lives for revolutions they couldn't control. Don't follow that model.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Unnecessary laws we have plenty of. What pisses people off is laws that are not for (against?) everyone, or selectively applied. Most people will grumble and bear it if everyone's in the same boat, then work within the system to bitch.

[Radar]

Originally Posted by Kitsune

Food, water, shelter, fuel. Those will be what start an armed revolution, not the desire to perfect the current government. Direct threats to lives have the ability to trigger the fight response in people and you're simply not going to see that in this age of comfort and fortune in the US. No one is going to feel the need to rebel when they're mind knows they're warm, fat, and happy. Only the desperate fight. You're absolutely kidding yourself if you think anyone is going to pick up a gun over this. Do it and you'll be lauded as a nutcase.

Tell you what -- go ahead and take up arms and tell others you're doing it in the name of handing over immigration law to the states in support of the people flooding over the border. I'm sure there will be waves of support right behind you.

So having ourselves spied on, losing habeus corpus, being locked up without charges indefinately by the government for merely being accused of something, having our property stolen from us by the government, having families broken up by government, and having Americans murdered by our government isn't enough to get people to take up arms?

All of these things are already happening.

I guess the only way to get people off the couch is to take away their couch.

[busterb]

The west coast always had the best dope!

[Undertoad]

I forgot to pay a traffic ticket and they sent me a letter saying they were gonna arrest me!

But I went to the township building and paid the fine and they said it was cool.

no revolution this month

[Kitsune]

Originally Posted by Radar

So having ourselves spied on, losing habeus corpus, being locked up without charges indefinately by the government for merely being accused of something, having our property stolen from us by the government, having families broken up by government, and having Americans murdered by our government isn't enough to get people to take up arms?

Take a look outside and see for yourself.

The basic needs of people have to be affected before they'll do anything. None of the above affects these things, therefore no action.