This is MY America!

[jinx]

Originally Posted by Flint

Who can truly say this?

The original Americans were obviously Native Americans.

Which native americans are you talking about?

For half a century, textbooks and scientists had agreed on a common theory that hunters following large herds of game wandered across the Bering Strait land bridge 12,000 years ago.[18] While some still believe the old hypothesis, many other scientists hold that there were numerous waves of migration to the Americas. The different cultures discovered through ancient skeletal remains support this latter theory and the Kennewick Man was one of the many cultures to roam the Americas before disappearing into history.[19]

Radiocarbon dates from the site indicated occupancy as early as 16,000 years ago and possibly as long as 19,000 years ago. The "Clovis First" camp has tried to dispute the age of the findings, but generally their efforts have been dismissed. Although the dates are still controversial to some, archaeologists familiar with evidence from the site agree that Meadowcroft was used by Native Americans in the pre-Clovis era, and as such, provides evidence for very early human habitation of the Americas. In fact, if the 19,000 years ago dating is correct, Meadowcroft Rockshelter is the oldest known Native American cultural site. However, archaeologists agree that the 11,000-13,000 date for the rockshelter is accurate and widely accepted, which makes the concept of "Clovis First", simply not possible.

Until recently, the standard theory among archaeologists (known as Clovis First) was that the Clovis people were the first inhabitants of the Americas. The primary support of the theory was that no solid evidence of pre-Clovis human inhabitation had been found.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by Flint

White-washing the past with a contrived American "creation myth" about the noble Pilgrims doesn't help anybody.

Noble Pilgrims? Of course. Noble and pious, they were. They were also the most intolerant and oppressive bunch to ever arrive on these shores.
The dude that first settled Boston then welcomed the second set of Pilgrims, had to leave town within a year of their arrival.
Everyone knows bad boys wear black.

[monster]

...guys so uptight even the British didn't want them.....

[nitro1364]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Say it ain't so Flint, say it ain't so.

So what? Lineage is not the point. Who cares who anyone's ancestors are?
ILLEGAL aliens are the point and making them abide by the rules is hardly persecution.

[piercehawkeye45]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

As long as you don't ask me or my family to ever pay reparations, or apologize for slavery, or blame me for the plight of every historically oppressed person in the US, I'm cool with it.

I agree with this but we have to work to stop all the institutionalized racism and white supremacy in the US today. It won’t completely go away until our society is totally racially integrated but we can still fix a lot of it now.

[Flint]

Originally Posted by jinx

Which native americans are you talking about?

The 10 to 20 million people living in an advanced, complex North American society before the "settlers" arrived to "tame the wilderness" ...

[Flint]

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

I agree with this but we have to work to stop all the institutionalized racism and white supremacy in the US today. It won’t completely go away until our society is totally racially integrated but we can still fix a lot of it now.

And we can start by teaching our high-school history students the truth about how this country started, instead of a romanticized myth that places an emphasis on European superiority. We have educated our society with "history" that isn't based on facts; it has been based on what makes us feel more comfortable about how we got here.

How do you think the myth of European superiority to "savage" indigenous people is connected to:

institutionalized racism and white supremacy in the US today

How can students educated with innacurate history textbooks grow into adults capable of making informed decisions about the nature of their society?

[piercehawkeye45]

Personally, I think white supremacy today has massive similarities to the Stanford Prison Experiment.

The Stanford Prison Experiment was where a random group of college students were either given a duty of prison guard or prisoner for a psychology experiment. After a while, these kids started actually acting upon their assigned positions, sometimes very violently. The prison guards were very dominant and abusive while the prisoners were very submissive and rebellious.

When white kids of today learn about history and "great" people, all they see are whites. So they start subconsciously assuming that whites are better than all the other races. When they are given this assumption, they will start to subconsciously acting upon it.

[Shawnee123]

Originally Posted by Flint

The 10 to 20 million people living in an advanced, complex North American society before the "settlers" arrived to "tame the wilderness" ...

:

[Shawnee123]

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

Personally, I think white supremacy today has massive similarities to the Stanford Prison Experiment.

The Stanford Prison Experiment was where a random group of college students were either given a duty of prison guard or prisoner for a psychology experiment. After a while, these kids started actually acting upon their assigned positions, sometimes very violently. The prison guards were very dominant and abusive while the prisoners were very submissive and rebellious.

When white kids of today learn about history and "great" people, all they see are whites. So they start subconsciously assuming that whites are better than all the other races. When they are given this assumption, they will start to subconsciously acting upon it.

Amazing that you brought that up. Over the weekend I read "High School Confidential" by Jeremy Iverson. The author posed as a high school student, and referred to the Stanford experiment (Iverson also graduated from Stanford) to point to this very phenomenon.

[Flint]

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

The Stanford Prison Experiment was where a random group of college students were either given a duty of prison guard or prisoner for a psychology experiment. After a while, these kids started actually acting upon their assigned positions, sometimes very violently. The prison guards were very dominant and abusive while the prisoners were very submissive and rebellious.

I saw a very disturbing movie based on this scenario... I cannot remember, at the moment, what it was called.

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

When white kids of today learn about history and "great" people, all they see are whites. So they start subconsciously assuming that whites are better than all the other races. When they are given this assumption, they will start to subconsciously acting upon it.

And conversely, how do you think non-white students feel about what they "learn" in "history" class?

[piercehawkeye45]

Originally Posted by Shawnee123

Amazing that you brought that up. Over the weekend I read "High School Confidential" by Jeremy Iverson. The author posed as a high school student, and referred to the Stanford experiment (Iverson also graduated from Stanford) to point to this very phenomenon.

I will put it on my list, thanks. I am assuming that you liked it?

Originally Posted by Flint

I saw a very disturbing movie based on this scenario... I cannot remember, at the moment, what it was called.

If you can think of the name could you please give me it?

And conversely, how do you think non-white students feel about what they "learn" in "history" class?

Yes, they get the opposite (prisoner) personality. That could be one of the reasons why it is hard for many to breach the "glass ceiling" and why so many are in jail (submissive and rebellious).

[Flint]

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

Stanford Prison Experiment

Originally Posted by Flint

I saw a very disturbing movie based on this scenario...

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

If you can think of the name could you please give me it?

Got it: Das Experiment ... "based on the infamous "Stanford Prison Experiment" conducted in 1971"

[piercehawkeye45]

Thanks a lot.

[Shawnee123]

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

I will put it on my list, thanks. I am assuming that you liked it?

I did like it. I found on the net that the "actual" high school he went to was all up in arms, crying "foul." I didn't look at it as a scientific model of a social experiment. Of course any HS wouldn't like the drinking and drug use exposed, though we all know it is what it is (and in most ways is no different than it was for us "old skoolers." He admits that some activity was a conglomeration of people. It's not like Mr X said everything he said Mr X said, rather Mr X may have played a part with contributions from Ms Y and Mr T.

In fact, the reaction I read from the administrators of the school just lent more credence to Mr Iverson's story, imo.

I would be interested in your take, pierce, from a more recently graduated from HS perspective!

Das Experiment is going on my movies I want to see list.