Will the Second Amendment survive?

[piercehawkeye45]

UG, you don't think that you might be a bit biased as well? It is natural for you and Radar to side with unalienable rights because your views do not allow you to have any leeway with those issue so making it absolute works best for your interests. While I and others accept some leeway in some scenarios so I will naturally side with the idea that rights were created by society. Now where we can see how our argument started, lets do this in a more laid out and break this down step by step. Remember, this is just philosophy so there are no right or wrong answers.

By this I am not saying you do not have an answer, just I don't want to put words in your mouth.

Who gives us our rights?
You - ???
Me - We give ourselves rights by justifying our actions but society uses social norms and laws to influence which ones are more important.

What would humans be like without rights?
You - ???
Me - Humans cannot get rid of rights as long as we justify our actions. If we did that, we would still be able to perform the same actions like how any animal can defend itself (right to life) dig a den (right to property...kind of) or hump on my leg (pursuit of happiness) but we would just not justify our actions like how animals don't need to justify their actions.

If rights are just justifications, and humans are the only species that need to justify our actions, we can say that rights would not be discovered/created without the evolution of humans. Explain if you disagree with that logic.

When did the first human group discover/create rights?
You - ???
Me - When justification was needed to explain one's actions.

Did rights exist before humans evolved?
You - ???
Me - No, humans created rights so there was no concept of rights before humans evolved.

If you answer those questions I can get a better idea of what you believe and then we can further this debate.

Making a philosophy fact is exactly the thing that started our nation, I'll have you keep permanently in mind.

We didn't make philosophy fact anymore than Iran made their Islamic philosophy fact or the Soviets made their philosophy fact. We all just made our philosophy into reality. Some will do better than others but that does not make a particular philosophy fact because of the enormous variation of initial conditions that can make or break a theory. Individual preference has a play in that as well because many Islamic conservatives would say their lifestyle is fact just as quickly as you have.

This is not subject to proof or to disproof, Pierce. That you would complain about someone telling you of the freer way and insist on taking the less free way tells us something about your thinking: that it is not free, nor remarkably adult.

At its best, the Libertarian Party is the Party of Adult Thinking. This sometimes leaves the libertarian thinker just a bit uncomfortable. But that's the price of freedom -- and if you can have freedom at that price, that's a damned good bargain.

Oh c'mon. Can you at least try not to be so extremely biased?