Does Anyone feel like Bailing

Originally Posted by Undertoad

The graph means nothing. It is not useful information.
.

How would you measure the economy...if not GDP increases/decreases and employment.

In the 2000s....manufacturing declined, wholesale trade declined, retail trade was flat, unemployment rose, stock market dropped,....resulting in the worst recession in 75 years.

What indicators do you need ?

Or better yet, do you think calling a program a failure before it evens have a chance to succeed is helpful...despite the fact that many economists have said it has helped?

Or characterizing political leaders you dont like as Nazis, whores, cunts is helpful?

Or never offering a positive, constructive contribution to a discussion is helpful?

[Undertoad]

Originally Posted by Redux

In the 2000s...

Again, the decade started with a bubble that popped just after the decade began - and ended a year after the popping of another bubble.

If you want to reply to my stuff you have to keep reading after the first sentence.

ETA: if you want to reply to the thread you have to remember who said what.

Originally Posted by Undertoad

Again, the decade started with a bubble that popped just after the decade began - and ended a year after the popping of another bubble.

If you want to reply to my stuff you have to keep reading after the first sentence.

ETA: if you want to reply to the thread you have to remember who said what.

OK.

I'll keep it simple.

Do you think the economy needs a short-term fix and/or a long-term restructuring?

How would you do it?

[lookout123]

I would let failing companies fail.

Repeated attempts at ill-advised a "short term fix" have put us where we are.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Redux

I can agree to disagree w/o insisting that your approach is a failure....particularly before it has been fully implemented.

It is a failure because they promised us that it would avoid a 10% unemployment rate. Fail. They promised us millions of jobs. Fail

Along with the fact that I dont feel a need to characterize anyone as Nazis, cunts, whores.... or calling other members liars...and prefer focusing on the issues.

I have not called other members that I have called members of Congress that, but only because they are. Everyone of them should be fired. And I do think that the Demoncrats are in for a few changes if they don't kill each other off first.

And you still havent offered a better solution. Tax cuts? Leave it to the free market? Focus on short term deficit reduction rather than long term economic growth?

I have offered plenty of suggestions. You can go back and re-read my posts.

[Undertoad]

I am fine with Keynes, except that Keynes never took deficits into account. Nevertheless, I think the stimulus has been somewhat successful, and a good idea - we had a super 4th quarter 2009. There is no need for an additional stimulus. I don't believe the government can do much for job creation.

Bush's spending hurt more than the tax cuts; if you're going to cut tax, you also cut spending when better times come around. That's Keynesian too.

Imagine if we had started the bursting bubble with a budget surplus. That's where we should have been. Then we could have spent to stimulate without walking the deficit tightrope.

[classicman]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

It may take this Congress from all parties to commit political suicide, which none of them are willing to do. Why? Power.can

But can't they still blame Bush and get away with it.

Originally Posted by Redux

Along with the fact that I dont feel a need to characterize anyone as Nazis, cunts, whores....

True - except for your signature which is in EVERY post. . .

Originally Posted by Reflux

"Always with the negative waves MerClassic, always with the negative waves."

Originally Posted by classicman

True - except for your signature which is in EVERY post. . .

Someone's a little touchy today.

You post a series of "gotcha" with the stimulus funding...that doesnt tell the whole story.

So, I provide additional details...and that pisses you off so your comeback is that the facts I provided are "biased" (very Merc like).

You bitch about the banks...then attack me when I point out proposed legislation that address the problem...and then go silent when I ask what you would propose. Again, very Merc like (who, btw, was both for and against bank/financial services regulations in the turn of two posts earlier in this thread.)

I can play "gotcha" right back at you. You dont like it? Too bad.

[classicman]

Originally Posted by Redux

You post a series of "gotcha" with the stimulus funding...that doesnt tell the whole story.

Incorrect - BIASED PARTISAN SPIN - Strike 1
I posted information available from the stimuluswatch.com site.
I found it interesting what some of the money was spent on.
You got all bent out of shape about it.

You bitch about the banks...

Incorrect again - Strike two
I posted that Obama is playing both sides of the fence. You again got all defensive...

then attack me

Strike three - you're out

Originally Posted by classicman

Incorrect - BIASED PARTISAN SPIN - Strike 1
I posted information available from the stimuluswatch.com site.
I found it interesting what some of the money was spent on.
You got all bent out of shape about it.

No...you got all bent out of shape when I provided factual information to supplement your "gotcha" posts....and played the Merc "anything the Obama govt says is lies or biased" card.

Incorrect again - Strike two
I posted that Obama is playing both sides of the fence. You again got all defensive...

The record speaks for itself...

Read back through the discussion of banking regulations earlier on this thread and the part where you got all bent out of shape and accused me of attacking a "respected member of the community" and then starting whining when I asked you for your solution.

You attack people and then come back with a "who me...i was just joking" when you're called out on it.

When you attempt to play "gotcha"...dont be such a fucking baby when I play back.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Redux

....and played the Merc "anything the Obama govt says is lies or biased"

That is because it is pretty much a true statement out of this groups of scumbags.

And when you attempt to play "gotcha"...dont be such a fucking baby when I play back.

Watch out now Classic, he said fuck.:p

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Watch out now Classic, he said fuck.:p

Classic is safe..he hides beyond you and plays the innocent victim.

You're beyond hope for any objective discussion. Classic is a still a work in progress...but he has been edging closer to the dark side lately.

[classicman]

Originally Posted by Redux

No...you got all bent out of shape when I provided factual information to supplement your "gotcha" posts....

sorry - that is a distortion of the truth - your bias is showing again. I won't repeat myself again.

When you attempt to play "gotcha"...dont be such a fucking baby when I play back.

Should I go the tw route and call your wife a "gonorrhea dripping whore?" Is that what you'd prefer? Is that what you are into.

I'm getting tired, REALLY tired of your word games.

Originally Posted by Redux

Classic is safe..he hides beyond you and plays the innocent victim.

I'm not a victim at all.

Classic is a still a work in progress...but he has been edging closer to the dark side lately.

With assholes like you, I welcome the dark side right about now.

I'll make it simple for you.

Show me how this DoAg report is biased or not factual...post the evidence

Or do you have any evidence that it was a payoff to an Obama supporter as you suggested.....then post that evidence.

Or the self-reporting by the company as required by law. You have evidence that the job figures are wrong...post the evidence.

To suggest they are biased or Obama administration lies is just bullshit.

Personally, I'm getting REALLY tired of reading from you and Merc that anything from the Obama administration is a lie or biased.

Back it up with facts or I will keep calling you out on it.....and you can cry me a river.

[classicman]

Originally Posted by Redux

I'll make it simple for you.

Show me how this DoAg report is biased or not factual...biased or not factual

Show us all where the stimulus.org info is biased or not factual... biased or not factual

Or do you have any evidence that it was a payoff to an Obama supporter......then post that evidence.

Where'd that one come from?

Or the www.recovery.gov You have evidence that the job figures are wrong...post the evidence.

I already reported what I read from an independent link. Are you hard of reading or what?

To suggest they are biased or Obama administration lies is just bullshit. I cry me a river.

Personally, I'm getting REALLY tired of reading from you and Merc that anything from the Obama administration is a lie or biased.

There ya go again. Take up your issues with Merc on his posts.

Back it up or shut the fuck up or I will keep calling you out on it.....and you can cry me a river.

Ohhhh weeee, I'm skeered now. Whatcha gonna do post an animated punch.gif?

You are losing your composure. We disagree - we have posted conflicting information. Yours comes from your administration/coworkers/lobbyist friends . . . so you CHOOSE to believe it. I got mine from an independent source, so I CHOOSE to believe that. Are you hard of reading? Shall I post in all caps for you.