Bully-induced Suicide

[Datalyss]

I know this is probably gonna spark a heavy debate...or maybe not, but I'd like to know your thoughts on kids committing suicide as a result of being bullied.

[smoothmoniker]

I'm all but certain that there's not a one-to-one causation here. Bullying may be a contributing factor to the end result, but I find it very hard to believe that it was the all-sufficient cause of these kids committing suicide.

The full complexity of these situations doesn't make for good news coverage though, and "epidemics" grab more attention if they have a single, easily understood cause.

[xoxoxoBruce]

We went around on this a while ago but I don't remember which thread.

[Datalyss]

Originally Posted by smoothmoniker

I'm all but certain that there's not a one-to-one causation here. Bullying may be a contributing factor to the end result, but I find it very hard to believe that it was the all-sufficient cause of these kids committing suicide.

The full complexity of these situations doesn't make for good news coverage though, and "epidemics" grab more attention if they have a single, easily understood cause.

Interesting. I don't think any of the others I've talked to took this into consideration. OTOH, in most cases, the kids being bullied won't tell their parents about this, so the frustrations of constant bullying builds up to the point that the kid just decides to end his/her own life cuz they don't think they have any other option.

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

We went around on this a while ago but I don't remember which thread.

I figured as much, but I was too lazy to search for it.

[DanaC]

Originally Posted by smoothmoniker

I'm all but certain that there's not a one-to-one causation here. Bullying may be a contributing factor to the end result, but I find it very hard to believe that it was the all-sufficient cause of these kids committing suicide.

The full complexity of these situations doesn't make for good news coverage though, and "epidemics" grab more attention if they have a single, easily understood cause.

I agree to a point: but then again, I also think it depends on the scale and intensity of the bullying. Being bullied by a couple of people in class can be distressing; beng ostracised by your entire class and bullied on a regular basis can become intolerable, and if it goes on for an extended length of time I can well see that driving someone to drastic measures. I am sure that some of kids who've committed suicide have done so as a direct response to bullying.



[eta] Data!!!!! How ya been?

[piercehawkeye45]

Originally Posted by DanaC

I agree to a point: but then again, I also think it depends on the scale and intensity of the bullying. Being bullied by a couple of people in class can be distressing; beng ostracised by your entire class and bullied on a regular basis can become intolerable, and if it goes on for an extended length of time I can well see that driving someone to drastic measures. I am sure that some of kids who've committed suicide have done so as a direct response to bullying.

Every person is different so I can't speak for everyone but I feel it is largely the emptiness of life which gets to people. When you hate your life and don't see anyway out of it, creating a void where it feels like your soul should be. It's hard for high schoolers to believe that life will get better when all they know is loneliness. That is why that "it gets better" campaign will probably have some tremendous effects on high schoolers that are contemplating suicide. The creators went through what many high schoolers are going through, not only homosexuals, and know the best advice to give them.

People can handle bullying, even extremely intense bullying, if they believe it is only temporary. When you think it will go on forever is when the depression, along with possible suicide, sets in.

[Lamplighter]

I suspect there is something of "getting even" attitude in suicides...

"You'll miss me when I'm gone"
"You'll be sorry you treated me that way"

which, of course, is completely useless because the "you's" will rationalize their own behaviors.

[Shawnee123]

[Flint]

Originally Posted by Datalyss

I know this is probably gonna spark a heavy debate...or maybe not, but I'd like to know your thoughts on kids committing suicide as a result of being bullied.

I'm for it.



Is this what we are supposed to be debating?

[xoxoxoBruce]

It's nature's way of weeding out the weak, thinning the herd, feeding the predators & scavengers, nourishing the soil, and conserving oxygen.

[Shawnee123]

Originally Posted by Flint

I'm for it.



Is this what we are supposed to be debating?

You be Pro, I'll be Con.

[Datalyss]

Originally Posted by Flint

I'm for it.

INAPPROPRIATE!

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

It's nature's way of weeding out the weak, thinning the herd, feeding the predators & scavengers, nourishing the soil, and conserving oxygen.

This is not the way I intended this thread to go.

Originally Posted by tw

We know bullying can only exist when management - teachers, administrators, guidance counselors - are not doing their job.

Well, they can't do their jobs if the kids don't tell them what's happening. And these days, the bullies can come right into the homes of the people they are bullying, through the internet. There is now no reprieve, no safe zone. It is bullying 24/7. I can't even begin to imagine that. When I was bullied in school, I had a safe zone in my house. No matter how bad the bullying was, I was secure in the knowledge that while at home I didn't have to deal with them, or their BS. Kids today don't have that luxury anymore.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by Datalyss

This is not the way I intended this thread to go.

Funny how that works.

Well, they can't do their jobs if the kids don't tell them what's happening. And these days, the bullies can come right into the homes of the people they are bullying, through the internet. There is now no reprieve, no safe zone. It is bullying 24/7. I can't even begin to imagine that. When I was bullied in school, I had a safe zone in my house. No matter how bad the bullying was, I was secure in the knowledge that while at home I didn't have to deal with them, or their BS. Kids today don't have that luxury anymore.

Yes they do, it's called a power button. It gives them the power to make it stop.

[tw]

Originally Posted by Datalyss

Well, they can't do their jobs if the kids don't tell them what's happening. And these days, the bullies can come right into the homes of the people they are bullying, through the internet. There is now no reprieve, no safe zone. It is bullying 24/7.

You are assuming reactive management - also called 'failure is acceptable'. Management's job is to be pro-active. If administrators, et al do not address a problem before hand, then the problem escalates. For example, where was the program that said what kids could do and who they could go to if bullying occurred? And where was the program that identifies bullying?

We teach kids to wash their hands and to use toilet paper before they get sick and die. Same proactive principles apply to bullying. As I have said so many hundreds of times, management's job is about attitude and knowledge. It is not about stopping failures after damage has been done. If failures happen, blame starts with management that failed to do their job. Teach the necessary concepts and provide the necessary channels.

Well, we taught about drunk driving and death. And so death rates went down. Apparently there is some connection between bullying and death. That means the solution starts with where mistakes started - top management. A solution always starts with attitude and knowledge. Management's job is to provide both. Only then does peer pressure work. No attitude and knowledge; then no peer pressure to further eliminate the problem.

[Datalyss]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Yes they do, it's called a power button. It gives them the power to make it stop.

Originally Posted by tw

You are assuming reactive management - also called 'failure is acceptable'. Management's job is to be pro-active. If administrators, et al do not address a problem before hand, then the problem escalates. For example, where was the program that said what kids could do and who they could go to if bullying occurred? And where was the program that identifies bullying?

We teach kids to wash their hands and to use toilet paper before they get sick and die. Same proactive principles apply to bullying. As I have said so many hundreds of times, management's job is about attitude and knowledge. It is not about stopping failures after damage has been done. If failures happen, blame starts with management that failed to do their job. Teach the necessary concepts and provide the necessary channels.

Well, we taught about drunk driving and death. And so death rates went down. Apparently there is some connection between bullying and death. That means the solution starts with where mistakes started - top management. A solution always starts with attitude and knowledge. Management's job is to provide both. Only then does peer pressure work. No attitude and knowledge; then no peer pressure to further eliminate the problem.

You both make good points, but Bruce, I think your solution to cyber-bullying is a bit unrealistic since some kids feel the need to keep defending themselves via email, IM, texting, etc.