Iraq is nearly over. BTW we won.

[Urbane Guerrilla]

So in the real world, you got elected to Congress because your ideas and politicking worked so well?

I seem to recall your Congressional run produced a post from you that under no pressure nor stimulus whatsoever assigned blame for your electoral loss to everyone except yourself. And that you picked up your ball and left the LP.

[Urbane Guerrilla]

And now we're looking at completing withdrawal in December 2011, per agreement, and busily getting a new Iraq and a national government completely up and running by then.

Just about the way we always said we wanted to do these things.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Oh horseshit, there was no plan. This exit strategy is a new development after Petraeus pulled their fat out of the fire. Up until he took over they were just going in circles, not knowing what to do next.

[DanaC]

No, no, you're wrong Bruce! The whole thing was carefully planned and executed exactly according to that plan. That whole 'going round in circles' bit was just a double-bluff to fool the insurgents!

[xoxoxoBruce]

Oh dear, silly me.

[Undertoad]

Combat deaths in Iraq so far this month: 7

Combat deaths in Afghanistan so far this month: 10

Deja vue Nam!

We need a timetable for withdrawal from Afghanistan. No more war for rubble!

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Just think of it as strangling fascism and you'll be fine with it -- like I am. It is, after all, hardly unlibertarian to remove libertarianism's most determined foes, or democratic republicanism's as an intermediate step in the development of a more libertarian society in a country that not only could use it, but is probably incapable of being run any other way, between geography and psychology.

A libertarian democracy's foes ought to get removed and stay removed -- consider forever as only barely long enough. Take the world away from tyrants and let that liberty that is humanity's birthright be the only thing that reigns.

[And UT, don't imitate tw's needlessly eccentric spelling of dejà vu -- he can plead all the ignorance and incapacity he needs to, but the rest of us don't have those excuses.]

[Undertoad]

That, UG, depends on whether what ends up there is a Democratic Republic. Most pundits say it won't. Does that change your usual?

[DanaC]

Why would it? That would presuppose that his usual is in some way affected by facts :p

[Clodfobble]

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

[And UT, don't imitate tw's needlessly eccentric spelling of dejà vu -- he can plead all the ignorance and incapacity he needs to, but the rest of us don't have those excuses.]

Well technically, it's déjà vu. Y'know, if we're being picky. Did you get a handle on Philippines yet?

[tw]

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

Well technically, it's déjà vu. Y'know, if we're being picky.

Technically we also won in Nam because body counts also proved we were winning. No poltiical settlement in Nam or Iraq? Deja Vue. We just ignore basic military poltical principles to declare victory. Clearly a light at the end of the tunnel. UT tells us it is so.

[Undertoad]

Welcome my friend! We've been waiting patiently for your first post in the thread. I must say this one disappoints, however. It's far too short to be a rant, only contains one baiting, does not mention mental midgets, big dic, etc.

There weren't US casualty counts this low in Nam until we left. But please, continue to predict the worst possible outcome! There'll always be *something* negative to crow about, so keep on jerking that knee. I'm depending on it!

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Tw is ever the apologist for tyranny, never the partisan of democracy. It's what I loathe about the man -- his habit of kowtowing to tinpot dictators suffering from delusions of adequacy. Or of benevolence, take your pick. Well, the stupid anti-Republican bigotry just plunges him deeper into the abyss.

There's been a generation or two of hollering from certain disreputable quarters about those mean ole conservatives and/or Republicans; they're this and they're that. Then you look at the record and at the conservative Republicans' writing and it is to be reliably presumed their thinking, and you find the accusations just aren't justified.

Well, the peckerslaps of the Left stopped fooling me quite some time ago.

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

Well technically, it's déjà vu. Y'know, if we're being picky. Did you get a handle on Philippines yet?

Why, déjà. Gee, it would have been meilleur vu in a font color other than white. :p

[tw]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

Welcome my friend! We've been waiting patiently for your first post in the thread. I must say this one disappoints, however.

Nothing has changed strategically. Many parties are stocking more weapons for what nobody wants but may be necessary. Shiites are removing Sunnis from positions of power. Once the Americans are gone, Sunnis will be completely disenfranchised and unrepresented in government. Only thing keeping that from happening is American troops. Also unknown is what the Shiites will do with the Kurds who have all but separated from Iraq. Will the Shiites attack the Kurds to take back the oil fields?

What we do know. Shiites what the Americans out. Shiites such as Sahdr are stocking weapons, training soldiers, and preparing for what may be necessary - open civil war. UT just ignores that. UT confuses tactical victories with a strategic objective - deja vue Nam. UT confuses body counts with victory - deja vue Nam.

Why no political settlement? Because an American created civil war will not end when Americans leave if no political solution exists. A lesson well proven in history. UT ignores what also happened even in Nam. He does this by mocking posts that only define those well proven principles from history.

Petraeus even said so. He cannot create a political solution - the strategic objective. He can only make it possible a tactical solution to permit a political solution to happen. Nothing new and still ignored by UT. There is no political solution ongoing. Just a demand by Shiites that Americans leave and have no remaining bases. Then a political solution may begin.