The reformation is at hand

[Undertoad]

http://reason.com/blog/2017/10/04/bl...s-shut-down-th

Black Lives Matter protests an ACLU event, shutting it down.

"Liberalism is white supremacy" was one of their slogans... ugh

A few months ago, BLM Philly banned white people from one of its meetings.

The students at Bryn Mawr, on finding that the college's early feminist founder was also anti-semitic, began working to erase her memory from the school.

People can't seem to see it, but identity politics is appalling, and a guaranteed loser. It's going to eat itself every time. This table can stand with four legs, it may even stand with three, but you keep cutting off legs and pretty soon it won't stand. Everyone's identity can be at odds with everyone else's.

[xoxoxoBruce]

People have always evaluated others, judged them to decide if they are friend or foe. When we got advanced enough it was deciding you wanted them for a friend by adding up their pluses and minuses. Likes the same music, food, sports, hobbies, etc, or not. When you pare that down to a single issue your circle of friends is going to get smaller and boring.

Face it, people suck... but always remember you are people.

[glatt]

Not good.

I don't know if it's fair to tar and feather the entire BLM movement though. These were just some dumb college kids in one school.

[xoxoxoBruce]

You're right, one group, like soldiers they depend on the leadership to take them in the right direction.

[Undertoad]

Watched the video of it and this was a pretty small event.

The bigger problem is that the dumb college kids are on every campus. In high profile events they shut down major conservative speakers, some of whom needed shutting down anyway...

But this is where the snake can turn on itself. If there are no righty speakers, the bigger movement is still angry and still looking for targets.

Sometimes they look with baseball bats.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ev...#2017_protests

[Clodfobble]

I'm not saying identity politics is the right way out of anything. But there's only so long you can tell people, "work within this system," when the system repeatedly and brutally fucks them over. As far as they're concerned, the table falling over wouldn't be any worse for them than it already is now. If people really wanted to take the wind out of the sails of BLM, all they'd have to do is convict the next three cops. But that won't happen without, as you say, a major reformation. Identity politics is a gross, ugly way of getting somewhere when all the other methods have been proven meaningless.

[Flint]

This.

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

But there's only so long you can tell people, "work within this system," when the system repeatedly and brutally fucks them over.
...
Identity politics is a gross, ugly way of getting somewhere when all the other methods have been proven meaningless.

America: It's never the right time, or the right way to deal with the problem. The preferred plan is: we're never going to deal with the problem. Or talk about it. Ever. Because the status quo is working well enough for enough people. That's why it's really important for the people who are not being served well by the system to keep quiet. This is priority number one.

Protests are designed to RAISE A RUCKUS until people acknowledge that the problem exists. They're not designed as a solution. They're not a peaceful summit of equally-powered groups.



Example: when your cat is hungry he tries to trip you, because that's all he can do. Maybe he shits on your pillow. Eventually you ask what his problem is, enough times until you figure it out. Then you feed the cat, and golly gee he acts normal again. It takes a minimal effort to work through this process.



Does everyone know why BLM exists, or are some of us pretending it's a huge mystery?

[glatt]

But the ACLU is fighting for civil liberties and BLM is fighting for civil liberties, so attacking one another when they should be attacking the actual oppressors is foolish.

[glatt]

It's like one cat fighting another cat in your hungry cat example.

[Flint]

Yet if we just fixed the problem, there wouldn't be a reason for either one of them to be doing anything.

Everything that everybody is doing is caused by the fact that the problem exists. If they're doing effective things, or counter-productive things, or whatever, I guarantee you they're doing whatever they think is the best option for them, give a situation where they are powerless to effect actual change to the underlying problem.

[Clodfobble]

Originally Posted by glatt

It's like one cat fighting another cat in your hungry cat example.

It's more like your cat fighting a second cat who keeps insisting that if they both just meow loudly enough, surely this time the human will listen.

The ACLU says everyone gets to talk. This is, ideally, true. But the BLM folks are saying that in reality, they don't get to talk, and also they get murdered for no reason on a regular basis. So they're going to prevent anyone from talking until everyone actually gets to talk like they're supposed to. And yeah, "two wrongs don't make a right," and all that--like I said, it's a gross, ugly way of getting your point across. But historically, it is also the only way that has ever actually worked.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Does everyone know why BLM exists, or are some of us pretending it's a huge mystery?

Of course, it's to take away the rights and privileges God has bestowed on the white Christians who discovered this land and built this great nation from sea to shining sea.

We know what the problem is, it's those noisy protesters. If they went away we'd have peace and tranquility like back when this nation was great, and them uppity Negros and Wetbacks knew their place.

[sexobon]

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

... The ACLU says everyone gets to talk. This is, ideally, true. But the BLM folks are saying that in reality, they don't get to talk, and also they get murdered for no reason on a regular basis. So they're going to prevent anyone from talking until everyone actually gets to talk like they're supposed to. ...

When people abroad who are being oppressed apply for asylum here, if we find out that they have previously oppressed others they are not granted asylum.

When people here who are not being heard pursue having a voice here, if we find out that they have previously silenced others, they are not likely to be given a voice.

[tw]

Originally Posted by glatt

... so attacking one another when they should be attacking the actual oppressors is foolish.

Sounds likes Syria.

[Clodfobble]

Originally Posted by sexobon

...they are not likely to be given a voice.

In theory. But history shows that this is, in fact, the only way they are given a voice. You tell your kid violence isn't the answer, that it's better to turn the other cheek, that if he stoops to their level he's as bad as they are--but we all know that the bullying only stops when he finally punches back.

The very fact that you think you get to decide whether to give them a voice is precisely why they are now taking it by force. They are not outsiders seeking your benevolence. They are Americans whose ancestors have quite possibly been here longer than yours.