The Problem of Darfur
 

So.....at least ten thousand people have been killed by the Janjaweed and approximately one million displaced .....rape and violence are being used against innocent villagers because of their ethnicity

What should be done? Is this one of those occassions where it would be morally and politically appropriate to intervene with force? Is this an internal matter to be dealt with by the government of Sudan with international pressure being applied as best it can?

What would be best is a UN peacekeeping force comprised of primarily soldiers from Arab countries. They desire the patina of respectability that comes from participation in the International Community, why should they not shoulder the burden of securing liberty and justice where it is lacking?

-sm

I hear the British are looking at sending some boys in. Wouldn't take too much. Think back to the way the SAS dealt with the West Side Boyz a few years back when they took a couple of British soldiers hostage, by the time they were done the 3 remaining West Side Boyz were hightailing it for Liberia.

SM - because we want to stop people getting gang raped and killed, not play political hot potato. I think after the debacle in Rawanda poor old Kofi feels that he can't afford to let yet another african massacre happen under his watch.

I've got no interest in playing political hot potatoe. I have a vested interest in seeing those who laude the international community come to terms with what that prhase means. Yes, this must be resolved quickly. Isn't it better if that resolution has an Arab face to it?

-sm

Not really, UN forces are meant to be non-partisan, a western force is more likely to be nonpartisan in this kind of scrap than an arab one, considering the group doing the nasties stuff is a bunch of hardass arabian riders with AKs. The armies of places like Syria are a liability and more likely to add to the chaos than stop it.

The African Union or whatever it's called seems to be slowly getting it's act together, one can hope for miricles.

Actually I think it would be a great idea except for the logistics of it. To put such a plan into place would take more time and potentially be less successful than sending in experienced peacekeepers or an army tried and tested in that kind of fighting. Time is something the people of Darfur do not have

(edited to say, shit your right Jag, what the hell am I thinking? The janjaweed are arabic african fighting black african)

Well it's more complex than that. It appears a deal with struck between them and the government - the raids have been heavily backed by the airforce doing bombing runs before the riders arrived to get on with the whole rape and pillage side of things. It's fundamentally muslim vs christian but there are race issues as well just to make it spicy.

*shakes head* what a mess

I suspect you don't know how big the mess really is. Next door in Northern Uganda is another 'massacre' ongoing on a smaller scale. Congo's eastern half had long been a territory of civil war and rebels hiding out to attach other countries - Rwanda. Burundi lately has been stable. Ethiopia has always been chaotic even after Eriteria broke away, became friendly, and then went to war again. Over at the other end of equitorial nations is Nigeria, Ivory Coast, Sierra Leone, and Liberia - all having been fully involved in war. Nigeria with its 116 million people has at least become peaceful enough as to send 'peacekeeper' troops to those other counties.

Sudan's Dafur is but a silly little example of what has been ongoing throughout most all of Africa. Most common problem - all armies kidnap the kids because they are easiest to brainwash. A legacy of kids without education and educated best to be murders.

And yet that is not the biggest problem in Africa. Clean water is still a larger problem.

Actually I was aware of the bigger mess . The trouble in Darfur is the scale that the displacements are happening on. Over a million have fled so far. The refugee situation in Chad is critical.

An Arab face may pacify but would only serve to reinforce the validity of the racial divisions at the root of this conflict.

I think we should draft, arm, and deploy America's entire cast of Hollywood celebrities.

... and news reporters.

What! And leave Osama bin Laden free to move about Afghanistan and Pakistan? Oh. Wait. He already moves about those countries freely. I forgot.

I bet they could find him if they just followed the big long power cord attached to his DIALYSIS MACHINE

You are asking George Jr to send some troops in and find the power cord. He still thinks Saddam took out the WTC. To go searching for bin Laden's power cord would mean that George Jr lied. We know that. But his staff has not yet told him that little fact. Therefore he does not yet know it.

Once Cheney says it is OK, then maybe George Jr will send troops into Afghanistan to get bin Laden. Unfortunately, Iran is already on the schedule. Don't know if George Jr can schedule in two wars in another four year term and still threaten N Korea. He already has a list of countries to conquer. Bin Laden was never on that list.

Easier to pretend that bin Laden does not exist or is not a threat. He almoist got the 9/11 Commission stifled so that we too would forget about bin Laden. We must attack Iran next. bin Laden is not important. He only killed a few thousand Americans.

How does this effect Darfur? Darfur is not on that 'axis of evil' list. Totally irrelevant how many die there when ideology is more important that even reading basic facts. We have a list. That's all the reading this current president needs for the next four years.

Couldn't you guys just give your hundred billion dollars of defense spending to the middle east in exchange for not bombing you?

You're kidding right?

we do that already. It's called "foreign aid". We need to just stop this shit ... welfare for foreign nations.

Of course I'm kidding!

Halliburton will be sending several large men 'round to adjust your attitude. :smashfrea

Stop that, before you give DanaC a heart attack. :)

Wolf gained 12 "soggy bint" points for that line.

Um, what is a 'soggy bint' and is it good or bad?

If you have to ask, it's probably better you don't know. ;-)

Ah, one of those Illuminati things, gotcha...

Heh heh heh. :biggrin:

You're just pissed off (which means "mad" and not "drunk" in American) because it's true and your economy would be devestated if we cut it off, both from direct impact and from the secondary impact of the third world countries we support not being able to spend their America Dollars on your products.

who are you talking to wolf? danaC? You think the British economy is dependant on sales to 3rd world countries paid for by foreign aid from the US????

Or are your referring to my country, Canada?

If so, it's pretty hilarious: If USA cut off Canada as a trading partner, we'd be shit out of luck.

But, the funny thing is, so would you. USA is utterly dependent on Canadian imports, the same way we depend on US imports.

Canada and the US have the most valuable trade agreement in the world, I don't think you guys could just "turn that off"

I honestly cannot recall the last time I turned something over and it said "Made in Canada" on the bottom ...

(as for the comment, I was continuing the "ugly american" theme started above. I have a vague Idea of what a "soggy bint" is based on years of watching Monty Python's Flying Circus, and so decided to continue on in that vein.)

God that's ignorant.

In 2002, Canada supplied 16.5 percent of ALL the USA's imported goods and services.

We also bought 19 percent of all your goods and services.

We're a larger market than all the EU combined, and you sell three times as many goods to us as Japan, which has more than 4 times our population.

The trade that crosses the border between our two countries is 1 billion dollars. PER DAY.

You'd damn well notice if you suddenly lost 20% of your export revenue and 17% of all your goods and services disappeared.

Are we talking items produced IN Canada or moved through it?

This is direct trade, items which originate in either the USA or Canada, and their final destination is either the USA or Canada.

If you're asking me whether these numbers include somebody trucking a bunch of toys from Canada, through the USA to Mexico...the answer would be no, because no trade occurs between the US and Canada.

The same is probably true of Canadians looking for "Made in the USA" labels, but few would doubt that we are Canada's biggest trading partner.

1,630,000 barrels of oil each day from Canada to the US.

Each day. The only country we get more oil from is mexico.

-sm

Bah :mad: who needs oil anyway. be gone with your silly oil. and why the hell does a canadian's head have to split in half when they talk, anyway? ;)

Yeah man, what's that all aboot?

With their beady little eyes and flapping heads so full of lies...

"don't kick the baby"
"dammit ike, shut the hell up!"

You're all just pissed because we've been spiking the freshwater exports.

Don't be silly. US bottled water is US tap water in bottles. We'll laugh off anything you throw as us.

It was meant to be ... Ugly American Schtick, remember ...

Lighten up, people.

(Jim's not the only one who has a K12000 Shitstirrer in the closet)

We Canadians are more serious than the Germans, didn't you know that?

I live with a Canadian and know it only too well. :rolleyes:

Canadians are also sexier than Germans ;)

And we have longer...attention spans.

AL-JEZEERA IN AND FOX NEWS OUT
Canada


Respond to this article at: http://myrawopinions.com/al-jezeera-...-news-out.html

7-26-04

This is a issue to really think about. Is our neighbor Canada, our friend or enemy? I know that Canada doesn't want to air Fox News but airs CNN. I know that Canada recently approved having Al-Jezeera aired in Canada. I have watched CNN before and still do from time to time. I know 100% for sure that its totally liberally biased. Al-Jezeera, I don't even need to explain to anyone what kind news and people they are. Everyone already knows about them.

I was watching an interview on TV with two reporters from Canada the other day. They were saying 40% of young Canadians think Americans are evil. Now why would they think that? Lets think about it. They're only getting media that airs one side of the news. In my opinion, the hate side. Pretty soon Al-Jezeera (the terrorist network) will be aired in Canada too. How do you think that will make Canadians feel about America? They'll probably think about Americans an a even worse light.

My conclusion to all of this is that Canada hates the right wing and loves the left. Why else would they allow CNN and the Al-Jezeera Network to air in Canada but not Fox News? Fox News (fair and balanced) has applied many times to be aired in Canada but keeps getting turned down. Fortunately, in America we have the choice to hear both sides. In Canada, however, Canadians aren't given a choice. They're forced to see only on side and they believe its the truth. Its sad to say, but I don't think Canada is our friend. At least, their government isn't. Theres no such thing as fair and balanced in Canada. Its totally left wing.

For those of you that think you're smart and will say, "It's really funny that you think Fox News is the only reliable or accurate media outlet in the United States," did I say that? When did I state that I think Fox is the only reliable media outlet in the U.S.? Are we assuming things here once again? Give it rest. I didnt say Fox was or wasnt the only reliable news source in the U.S.

Respond to this article at: http://myrawopinions.com/al-jezeera-...-news-out.html

I would have linked it but the site I found it on was NSFW although the links in the piece are safe. :)

So now that we have blamed everyone - even Canada - for this mess, then maybe we should first take a perspective from a more 'godly' or strategic perspective. We already did that once. But I suspect the concepts have been forgotten - just like Abu Ghraid and the under one thousand prisioner held in violation of all human rights principles.

Is Darfur an American problem? First we go back to the leassons of history:
The Tape posted 13 Feb 2003 in the Current Events forum. IOW at what point do we decide to be the world's policeman - or instead elects intelligent leaders who don't see things only in black and white; good and evil; them and us; and the righteous Christians who must save us all from ourselves. IOW at what point do we instead become smarter, tolerant, and therefore more human people?

I should be noted that the Canadian arm forces are suffering from exhaustion having contributed the solution of world crisis constantly - unlike Americans who instead what to blast a solution and still not go after America's #1 enemy - Ossama bin Laden. At what point do we first start with the lessons of history in this 1.5 year ago discussion rather than seek solutions only using guns?

when it rains it poors...
 

Locust swarms

it looks like darfur has more problems to deal with now.

I like that. Put your money where your mouth is.

For most people that hurts tooooo much. The simplest explanation is usually the right one. [ripping off so-and so's '-Razor' theory. Ocham's?? Ocham's Razor??]
Again, DanaC will disagree with me, but I don't possess her youthful vision. Damnit all.