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Old 04-23-2007, 09:17 AM   #346
Kitsune
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From here, only updated for today.

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Of course the [Virginia Tech Shootings] are a uniquely tragic event, and it is vital that we never lose sight of the human tragedy involved. However, we must also consider if this is not also a lesson to us all; a lesson that my political views are correct. Although what is done can never be undone, the fact remains that if the world were organised according to my political views, this tragedy would never have happened.

Many people will use this terrible tragedy as an excuse to put through a political agenda other than my own. This tawdry abuse of human suffering for political gain sickens me to the core of my being. Those people who have different political views from me ought to be ashamed of themselves for thinking of cheap partisan point-scoring at a time like this. In any case, what this tragedy really shows us is that, so far from putting into practice political views other than my own, it is precisely my political agenda which ought to be advanced.

Not only are my political views vindicated by this terrible tragedy, but also the status of my profession. Furthermore, it is only in the context of a national and international tragedy like this that we are reminded of the very special status of my hobby, and its particular claim to legislative protection. My religious and spiritual views also have much to teach us about the appropriate reaction to these truly terrible events.

Countries which I like seem to never suffer such tragedies, while countries which, for one reason or another, I dislike, suffer them all the time. The one common factor which seems to explain this has to do with my political views, and it suggests that my political views should be implemented as a matter of urgency, even though they are, as a matter of fact, not implemented in the countries which I like.

Of course the [Virginia Tech Shootings] are a uniquely tragic event, and it is vital that we never lose sight of the human tragedy involved. But we must also not lose sight of the fact that I am right on every significant moral and political issue, and everybody ought to agree with me. Please, I ask you as fellow human beings, vote for the political party which I support, and ask your legislators to support policies endorsed by me, as a matter of urgency.

It would be a fitting memorial.
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Old 04-23-2007, 09:59 AM   #347
Spexxvet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spexxvet View Post
two people are packing guns, one is a criminal. Explain how the likelihood of death doesn't increase.
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Originally Posted by Clodfobble View Post
The criminal is a coward, and wasn't planning on (and isn't interested in) a fair fight.
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Originally Posted by Spexxvet View Post
Unfair and cowardly would be to kill your opponent before they have a chance to shoot - as soon as you see the gun.
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Originally Posted by Kitsune View Post
You're really going to have to explain this to me, because I don't understand that statement.
Cowardice is avoiding situations that put you in danger. There's not a whole lot of situations more dangerous than having a gun pointing at you. If you are an armed criminal, the easiest and surest way of avoiding the danger of a gun being pointed at you would be to kill your victim before they have a chance to aim their gun at you. As soon as you see a gun, bang! An armed criminal facing an armed victim would not run away - that would give the victim the opportunity to shoot the criminal as he fled.

A fair fight would be one in which both parties have the same tools. A criminal would not want a fair fight. An easy way to keep the fight unfair would be to eliminate the victim's ability to use a gun - in other words pre-emptively shoot the victim. Again: see a gun and bang!
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Old 04-23-2007, 10:05 AM   #348
Spexxvet
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Originally Posted by TheMercenary View Post
I would disagree. That would be the smartest move. If a criminal pulls a gun on you and you shoot and kill that person, ...
Are you saying that you will have your gun out and ready to shoot before the criminal does? If you don't, it would be unlikely that you could draw your gun and shoot the criminal first, since he has his gun already pointing at you.

A criminal walks up to you, points his gun at you and says "give me all your gum". How are you going to kill him, even if you're packing heat?
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Old 04-23-2007, 11:21 AM   #349
Shawnee123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spexxvet
A criminal walks up to you, points his gun at you and says "give me all your gum". How are you going to kill him, even if you're packing heat?
Why, you'd have to be Quick Draw McGraw!
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Old 04-23-2007, 11:27 AM   #350
TheMercenary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spexxvet View Post
Are you saying that you will have your gun out and ready to shoot before the criminal does? If you don't, it would be unlikely that you could draw your gun and shoot the criminal first, since he has his gun already pointing at you.

A criminal walks up to you, points his gun at you and says "give me all your gum". How are you going to kill him, even if you're packing heat?
No one can state how or where and under what circumstances anyone is going to encounter any situation. Who knows? I will tell you if I have a chance to pull it out and shoot the person dead, without asking questions, I will do it. Of course you are talking to someone who has had formal combat CQ handgun training from H&K. So my position is much different from others. There are many ways to foil events like this. Dramatic gestures work very well in diffusing situations like this. One of the least used and most effective is for a person to put his/her hands up and scream at the top of your lungs over and over "Don't shoot..... (bla, bla, bla)". Fall to the ground and obtain your weapon and fire. There are others, but you need to be ready and train for such events. Nine times out of ten you have been targeted because you presented yourself as a target. Situational awareness is number one. Learning to avoid becoming a victim is more important than learning to shoot a gun, or owning one. There are plenty of law abiding citizens male and female, who should probably not allow themselves to get anywhere near a gun, for their own safety.
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Old 04-23-2007, 11:44 AM   #351
piercehawkeye45
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I said if they have a gun and see that you have a gun, they may shoot you.

It wasn't a definite statement meaning there are other possibilities.

My statement is valid as long as you don’t change what I say.
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Old 04-23-2007, 11:47 AM   #352
duck_duck
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Here is some candy for you pro-gun people.

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Old 04-23-2007, 01:15 PM   #353
Spexxvet
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Originally Posted by TheMercenary View Post
No one can state how or where and under what circumstances anyone is going to encounter any situation. Who knows? I will tell you if I have a chance to pull it out and shoot the person dead, without asking questions, I will do it.
Or die trying.

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Originally Posted by TheMercenary View Post
Of course you are talking to someone who has had formal combat CQ handgun training from H&K.
Oooooooooooooooooooooooooooo! You're the ginchiest! My hero! I'm soooooooo impressed!

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Originally Posted by TheMercenary View Post
So my position is much different from others.
The lotus? Doggie style?

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Originally Posted by TheMercenary View Post
There are many ways to foil events like this. Dramatic gestures work very well in diffusing situations like this. One of the least used and most effective is for a person to put his/her hands up and scream at the top of your lungs over and over "Don't shoot..... (bla, bla, bla)". Fall to the ground and obtain your weapon and fire.
If I were a criminal, with my gun out, and you made a "dramatic gesture", you'd be dead.

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Originally Posted by TheMercenary View Post
There are others, but you need to be ready and train for such events.
Unfortunately, most Americans aren't.

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Originally Posted by TheMercenary View Post
.... Situational awareness is number one. Learning to avoid becoming a victim is more important than learning to shoot a gun, or owning one. ...
That's what I'm talking about. There are many things one can do to avoid killing or being killed with a gun.
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Old 04-23-2007, 01:35 PM   #354
TheMercenary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spexxvet View Post
Or die trying.


Oooooooooooooooooooooooooooo! You're the ginchiest! My hero! I'm soooooooo impressed!



The lotus? Doggie style?



If I were a criminal, with my gun out, and you made a "dramatic gesture", you'd be dead.



Unfortunately, most Americans aren't.



That's what I'm talking about. There are many things one can do to avoid killing or being killed with a gun.
And you want a serious reply to those comments??? My bad I thought you wanted a serious answer...
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Old 04-23-2007, 01:37 PM   #355
freshnesschronic
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Why can't we all just get along?
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Old 04-23-2007, 01:38 PM   #356
TheMercenary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spexxvet View Post
Are you saying that you will have your gun out and ready to shoot before the criminal does? If you don't, it would be unlikely that you could draw your gun and shoot the criminal first, since he has his gun already pointing at you.

A criminal walks up to you, points his gun at you and says "give me all your gum". How are you going to kill him, even if you're packing heat?
I would just grab your happy ass and hold you in front of me until they finished firing all of their bullets, hoping that you would catch most of them in your chest or head and I would be missed completely. Then I would knock the bad guy down with your limp body by throwing your bloody mess at him! Then I would give him your gum.
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Old 04-23-2007, 02:01 PM   #357
Spexxvet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMercenary View Post
And you want a serious reply to those comments??? My bad I thought you wanted a serious answer...
The only statement that could be responded to was whether your possition was Lotus or doggie style. Seriously...
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Old 04-23-2007, 10:37 PM   #358
Urbane Guerrilla
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spexxvet View Post
Just giving as I get.
You get what you get because your arguments are all crime- and genocide-friendly, Spexx. You prove, at length, redundantly, and ad nauseam that your morals just aren't what they could be, nor what you suppose them to be.

That's called having a disconnect in your brain.

The rest of us, happily, are better adjusted.
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Old 04-23-2007, 11:12 PM   #359
AgentApathy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duck_duck View Post
That fact anybody in america feels they need a gun to protect themselves says a lot about the state of crime in that nation.

I've only heard ONE in this thread say that a firearm has been necessary to preserve their life. The rest, like me, have said that we aren't afraid and many of us, me included, do not even own a gun. I leave my windows open and my doors unlocked the vast majority of the time. Don't judge ME by a minority group of people who are either paranoid or choose to live in bad areas of the cities they live in.

We get it: you are 16, idealistic, and scared to death of the average Joe's ability to use reason and logic. The US is unlikely to change its policies on the right of citizens to arm themselves, since it was something the founding fathers saw as important enough to put in the documents created in the founding of this country, regardless of how brilliant a 16 year old thinks she is in knowing what is best for an entire nation of people!

So you have two years, maybe less, until you are a legal adult and can get the hell out of the United States of Wyatt Earp of your own accord.

Think about this for a minute: is your father an idiot to have moved his family to a gun-totin' country like the US, or did he have good reason to come here? Perhaps all isn't as rosy in Hong Kong as you would like to think? I have some friends from HK who would argue that life is much, much better here, and they have been around the block many more times than you have.

You say in your profile that you are a simple person who sees the world in simple terms. It might be time for a broader world view, since the world is far from simple and to dumb it down to the level of simplicity is to close your mind to things you don't know. And trust me, at 16, there is a whole lot that you don't know.
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Old 04-23-2007, 11:14 PM   #360
freshnesschronic
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I applaud you Agent. Well said, well said.

I would have said something like that, but I didn't want to get that personal.
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