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Old 10-10-2012, 12:29 AM   #1
HungLikeJesus
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Lithium-Iron Batteries

Has anyone had experience with lithium-iron batteries? I'm considering buying a Shorai for one of my motorcycles.

I've had a lot of batteries die from sitting through eight months of winter, and hoping that one of these will last a bit longer.
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Old 10-10-2012, 01:47 AM   #2
ZenGum
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Never heard of them before. I wonder if they were invented as a result of a typo. (Yes, I just learned they are a thing).
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Old 10-10-2012, 07:22 AM   #3
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Would it be cheaper to buy some sort of trickle charger and keep the thing plugged in all winter? They must make such things.
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Old 10-10-2012, 07:43 AM   #4
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Trickle down electricity didn't work under Reagan, and it won't work now.
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Old 10-10-2012, 09:57 AM   #5
tw
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HungLikeJesus View Post
I've had a lot of batteries die from sitting through eight months of winter, and hoping that one of these will last a bit longer.
Sealed lead acid batteries used on some motorcycles must be recharged monthly. If left to completely self discharge (in a few months), that type of lead acid battery destroys itself.

Lead acid batteries need no special electronics. If the recharge voltage is regulated, then that old technology battery will never overcharge.

Lithium batteries have no such internal protection. A constant recharge voltage to a lithium battery can cause battery explosion. So that Lithium needs a recharge regulator (probably internal) to avert explosion.
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Old 10-10-2012, 10:54 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glatt View Post
Would it be cheaper to buy some sort of trickle charger and keep the thing plugged in all winter? They must make such things.
Yes. And, yes, they do.
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Old 10-10-2012, 03:47 PM   #7
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what I know of lithium iron batteries.

from the site:

Quote:
Other major advantages for LiFePO4 when compared with other Li-ion chemistries are higher rate discharge capability and longer cycle life.

LFP batteries have some deficiencies. The energy density both by energy and volume is somewhat lower than that of LiCoO2 cells and batteries.
Long enough for your conditions and requirements? I don't know.
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Old 10-11-2012, 01:32 PM   #8
tw
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A nation that innovates owns the battery industry. We have only just started to understand a technology even used in the 1970s. That even made possible 24 hours HBO.

Some current technologies are the original Lithium Ion, Lithium Ion Polymer, and Lithium Iron Phosphate. Variations exist for each chemistry. Each varies with temperature, load, recharge time and algorithm, ability to hold a charge, weight, power density, cycle life, energy density, and safety. All expensive solutions to a problems made irrelevant by a simpler solution.

That old technology battery has one limitation. It must be recharged, at longest, monthly to not self destruct. Some trickle chargers recharge deeper into the little parts of a battery. Others only top off the battery resulting in a recessionary and eventually failing battery.

In this new lithium economy, trickle charging is often destructive.

Last edited by tw; 10-11-2012 at 01:42 PM.
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Old 10-16-2012, 10:23 AM   #9
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I enjoyed this editorial that follows along TW's ideas oft-exressed about innovation...

NY Times
HILLARY ROSNER
10/18/12

A Chemist Comes Very Close to a Midas Touch
Quote:
Throughout the centuries, alchemists tried in vain to transform
common metals like iron and lead into precious ones like gold or platinum.
Today, Paul Chirik, a professor of chemistry at Princeton, has managed a new twist on the timeworn pursuit.

Dr. Chirik, 39, has learned how to make iron function like platinum,
in chemical reactions that are crucial to manufacturing scores of basic materials.
While he can’t, sadly, transmute a lump of iron ore into a pile of valuable jewelry,
his version of alchemy is far more practical, and the implications are wide-ranging.

<snip>

Dr. Chirik’s work involves dissolved catalysts, which are mixed into the end product.
The molecules of the catalyst dissipate during the reaction.
For instance, a solution containing platinum is used to make silicone emulsifiers,
compounds that in turn feed products like makeup, cookware and glue.
Tiny amounts of the expensive metal are scattered in all these things;
your jeans, for instance, contain unrecoverable particles of platinum.

<snip>

“When you buy jeans, some weird element on the periodic table was used to make them,”
Dr. Chirik said. “Or you think you’re doing something good by buying a Prius,
but it’s got all this neodymium in it that comes out of a pit mine in Mongolia.

“If you can transition to a completely earth-abundant world,” he said, “you can have a huge impact.”
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Old 10-16-2012, 10:50 AM   #10
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cool! Hope they have a breakthrough.
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Old 10-16-2012, 04:15 PM   #11
tw
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glatt View Post
cool! Hope they have a breakthrough.
Rare earth metals are not really rare. Rare earths are difficult to extract from other 'dirt'. It is the extraction - not the element itself - that makes the element rare. How to solve a shortage of rare earth? Innovate. Develop new extraction methods.

Who create new jobs, new industries, new markets, and destroy recesssions? The nations that innovate. Rare earths are but another example because so many other new innovations (including superconductivity and disk drives) require them.

The world is full of silicon and lithium. Only nations that innovate aggressively create new jobs from products also based in these 'more common' elements. The elements themselves are not important. How those elements can be extracted and used are important.

Advantages of a lithium battery would be lost on a motorcycle. But then lessons from Clayton Christensen's "Innovator's Dilemma" may apply. Sometimes a product that makes little sense becomes the best solution.

Last edited by tw; 10-16-2012 at 04:47 PM.
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