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Old 01-02-2009, 07:53 AM   #1
Griff
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What do you hear when people say freedom?

There is often a difference between what people think they're saying and what they are saying.
ex: UG thinks he's saying freedom for everyone. I'd say what people generally hear is submit to my freedom. That is why he and Radar and Dana collide, they all want a version of freedom to reign, but their definitions are incompatible.

My current definition shifts with what I see. It may not look that different from Radar's except that I do think that, despite its moral hazards, a social saftey net is in order. I do believe in the freedom to fail, which has become unpopular in governmental circles, meaning I'd rather see Wagoner on welfare than running GM. I believe the Supreme Court got it right, we have a individual right to self defense. I believe in a lot of stuff, but what do you hear?
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Old 01-02-2009, 09:28 AM   #2
footfootfoot
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Depending upon the speaker and context, unfortunately I usually hear "license." You know doing what you want without concern for the consequences.



Sometimes I hear Richie Havens singing "Freedom" this one time I saw him in New Hampshire decades ago. He sang himself into a trance, fell off his stool, and continued singing and playing his guitar: Freeeeedommm Freeeeedommm Freedommmm.

He wasn't talking about license, he was singing about freedom. He was invoking freedom in all its manifestations.
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Old 01-02-2009, 09:43 AM   #3
Griff
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Wait, he wasn't singing about smoking dope?
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Old 01-02-2009, 09:50 AM   #4
lumberjim
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FRENCH FRIES
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Old 01-02-2009, 10:02 AM   #5
bluecuracao
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When MLK says it, I get a tear in me e'e.

When Team America says it, I giggle.

When Toby Keith says it, I want to punch him in the mouth.
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Old 01-02-2009, 10:05 AM   #6
Griff
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Quote:
Originally Posted by footfootfoot View Post
Depending upon the speaker and context, unfortunately I usually hear "license." You know doing what you want without concern for the consequences.
smart
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Originally Posted by lumberjim View Post
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluecuracao View Post
When MLK says it, I get a tear in me e'e.

When Team America says it, I giggle.

When Toby Keith says it, I want to punch him in the mouth.
Well said.
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Old 01-02-2009, 10:22 AM   #7
Undertoad
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Free will is a rather new discovery in the history of the human race. I guess it's those thoughts, choices, and actions you take independently, without depending on the god(s), society/tribes, or other people in your life.
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Old 01-02-2009, 11:02 AM   #8
Shawnee123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluecuracao View Post
~snip~

When Toby Keith says it, I want to punch him in the mouth.
:
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Old 01-02-2009, 11:45 AM   #9
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A lot of people think 'freedom' means free to do what you like unless you violate MY moral code. Then that is just 'wrong' and should be stopped immediately.
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Old 01-02-2009, 11:47 AM   #10
Shawnee123
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Originally Posted by Stormieweather View Post
A lot of people think 'freedom' means free to do what you like unless you violate MY moral code. Then that is just 'wrong' and should be stopped immediately.
Pedophiles are always doing that, thinking they are free to rape children.

My point being, where does one draw the line?

Ah, there's the rub.
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Old 01-02-2009, 11:55 AM   #11
piercehawkeye45
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Which line? I see a lot of them. In fact, I just see one gray blob.
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Old 01-02-2009, 11:56 AM   #12
Shawnee123
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Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45 View Post
~snip~In fact, I just see one gray blob.
Well then, quit spying on me. :p
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Old 01-02-2009, 11:59 AM   #13
Cicero
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I think of it in the way that UT thinks of it...But there is also all the little subatomic particles around, and outside forces that interfere with free will.

Do I really have free will with gravity holding me down? How free is freedom? I am more and more convinced that freedom exists only in varying degrees, if at all. It might have been manufactured to make us feel better. Great in theory..the practice..Not so much.
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Old 01-02-2009, 07:09 PM   #14
xoxoxoBruce
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When I hear someone say freedom I wonder what's really on their mind. Usually, if I listen long enough, they get around to what their bitch really is.
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Old 01-02-2009, 07:27 PM   #15
piercehawkeye45
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Mel Gibson.
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