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Old 09-19-2013, 09:32 PM   #16
Adak
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@orthodoc: You haven't read the regulations yet for Obama Care, doc. If the doctor is required to ask the questions, and is being paid to do so, there will naturally be a substantial pressure on all the patients, to answer. Whether it is legally mandated, or not.

@BigV: I have. Reputations, careers, marriages, etc., could easily be ruined, just as we have seen with Anthony Weiner.

Do you REALLY believe that your private medical records, once digitized according to the federal EHR standards and Obama Care, will not be leaked, or hacked, and used by those who want to gain by doing so?

Who in our nations past would have been crushed if their infidelity had been discovered earlier? Franklin Roosevelt, both John and Ted Kennedy, Martin Luther King (for sure!), Dwight Eisenhower (likely), and many more.

I don't believe the federal gov't's needs info for their records (and it certainly isn't YOUR record anymore, since you don't possess it), on every possible aspect of our lives.

@Lamplighter: still kicking against the factual rocks, I see. Thank heaven you have YOUR facts, and facts already proven, don't matter to you.
=============================================
The Stand Off Continues
-------------------------------
So we have 11 days left. Friday, the House will vote on the bill to start the defunding of Obama Care, according to Sen. Cruz of Texas.

Majority leader Reed meanwhile, has his own subterfuge going. He's putting a bill together to allow the Senate to remove any amendment to defund OCare. Then he'll have two bills to raise the federal debt, with the amendment to defund Obama Care, sent to the House, for a vote.

That will give the Republicans a chance to say to their voters, that they voted TWICE to defund OCare. When said Bill is returned to the Senate, it will then have the amendment to defund OC removed, by the Senate, and then passed using his simple majority (instead of a super majority, which he can't get right now), and sent up to be signed.

You can read about it on TheHill website, in much more detail. I was driving while listening to Sen. Cruz, so I couldn't note all the details.

As of today, the Republican strategy will be to force the Senate into voting either to defund OCare, or to face a shut down of the entire gov't.

Now that labor is getting on board - realizing that they will lose a lot of their health care benefits that they had before, OR pay more to keep them, the groundswell against OCare is building.

Lots of people are being cut back to 29 hours per week, so their employer does not have to pay for their health care, under OCare. Many of the larger corporations, already have exemptions, as do some members of Congress, according to Sen. Cruz.

If you want to hear the full interview with Sen. Cruz (who is a very likely candidate for the Republican party for President in the next election), you can hear it at the Hugh Hewitt website.

Audio of Sen. Cruz's interview is here:
http://www.hughhewitt.com/wp-content...19hhs-cruz.mp3

Transcript of this and much more is here:
http://www.hughhewitt.com/
"Ted Cruz on the Coming Filibuster" is the title.
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Old 09-19-2013, 10:03 PM   #17
orthodoc
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@Adak: You're talking out your ass. You have no idea how things go. Docs have been asking about smoking for awhile now, and people have the right not to answer. Docs can ask about your sex life - and, surprise, it's relevant more often than not - your sore ankle could turn out to be a sign that you have Reiter's Syndrome. But you don't have to reply, or you can lie, and all that will happen is that you won't be properly diagnosed and your sore ankle will turn into a permanent disability.

Do you know what I like about Obamacare (not that YOU care)? Starting January 1, 2014, insurance companies can't discriminate against people who have 'pre-existing conditions'. They can't refuse them and they can't drop them.

That means a lot to those of us who have, let's say, cancer. Being dropped by your insurance company in the middle of chemo because you have a cancer most likely due to the assault on your system by environmental toxins such as hormones in food (agribusiness), parabens (multiple personal-care products that aren't required to prove safety), and other carcinogens foisted on us daily by the corporations that espouse your ideology, and who own our pathetic government ... will really spoil your day.

You'll go from first-world problems (eek, my stock in Monsanto/Dow/Weston/Kraft just dropped a point) to third-world victories (hooray! Now that I'm not getting chemo, I'm not vomiting every hour! Am I dying? Why yes, but at least I'm not vomiting ... ) faster than you can say 'GOP'.

But of course you haven't personally experienced any life crises yet, have you, Adak? Nothing you couldn't pay for ... yet. Don't worry, it'll happen. Life, or death, will catch up to you.

Adak, please go and spend some time outside the US. Learn how people live on our planet when they aren't in that 1%. Or just spend some time in rural America, that would also do. You might learn that people have more pressing things on their minds than whether they should be offended that their doctor asks if they're sexually active.
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Old 09-20-2013, 07:36 AM   #18
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Obamacare is being phased in slowly, so I reserve the right to change my mind as more becomes apparent in the coming couple of years, but so far, I'm loving Obamacare.

One requirement that has already been phased in is that insurance companies must spend at least 85% of the money they collect in premiums on health care for their covered patients. If they don't meet that target, they must refund the premium money to the people who paid it. (actually, the money goes to their employers to be refunded to the employees or applied to future premium payments.) I've received premium refunds two years in a row thanks to Obamacare. The first year, it was pretty big, because the insurance company was caught with their pants down. The second year, the insurance company was able to adjust its operations so that it was a lot closer to the target and the refund was smaller. I expect that next year, there will be no refund, which is fine. It means the insurance company isn't profiteering as much as it used to be, and is actually providing healthcare more efficiently.

I also think it's telling that our system is so screwed up, we allow insurance companies to leech 15% off the top and that's considered good. Obamacare is a good start, but we need even more comprehensive health care reform.
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Old 09-20-2013, 08:11 AM   #19
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Old 09-20-2013, 03:44 PM   #20
Adak
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Let's me be clear - I'm in FAVOR of a nationalized health service, but I strongly dislike the way Obama Care has been done, (and we have been lied to SO MUCH about it).

And yes, I am worried about our federal gov't, which can't keep even top secret data, from being published in newspapers around the world, and on the web, having their nose in every aspect of our lives.

I'm no fan of the health insurance companies. I recall one instance where they claimed pre-existing conditions and dropped someone when they had cancer.

The "pre-existing condition" they claimed, was acne (she was a teenager). She hardly had any acne, to boot!

But I recall the case of a doc at Kaiser Medical who was going to lose his bonus for low treatment costs per patient, so he just didn't treat a woman with breast cancer. She finally got another opinion, but it was too late by then.

Military care has had it's goof's too. Not too long ago, a Marine came back from a repeat tour of Iraq, and was found to have late stage melanoma. It had been seen and reported before his tour, when it was quite treatable, but nothing was done for him.

I respect Hillary's idea of a single payer - it's tough on the pampered American, but it's eminently fair. Obama Care has so many "favors" going out in the form of exemptions, credits, etc., it's a damn nightmare.

Most of the nightmare we've faced from the insurance companies has been due to the "favors" they got from states and Washington. Competition is severely limited, for instance. Oh yeah! Limiting competition between insurance companies will be REAL GOOD for the consumer.

BTW, I've been out of the country, working with the very poor, in Mexico, and lived WAY out in the boonies, in the Deep South, and on (you may have guessed it), Adak Island.

You will have a hard time finding a place more remote than Adak Island, trust me! Antarctica is barely less remote than Adak Island.

Welcome to Adak Island:
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Old 09-20-2013, 06:30 PM   #21
Adak
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Washington Post Poll today:

58% of those polled do NOT like the way Obama Care is being implemented. 34% of those polled LIKE the way it's being implemented.

Today, the House passed a measure to extend the debt limit, * IF * Obama Care is defunded.

Senate Democrats are solidly against that, of course. Nancy Pelosi says she can't recall any President being treated so badly, since the days of Bill Clinton, during his impeachment trial.

She seems to not remember all the scorn and name-calling that she used against Bush, for 8 years. You have a very selective and convenient memory, Nancy.

Obama went to a Ford plant in the Midwest. Talked about how the efficiencies of the Ford plant - which took ZERO dollars from the gov't in bail out money, was made possible by the investment of the Federal gov't.

Huh? Unbelievable crap that Obama spews out - and never gets called out on. If Bush said that, he'd have been tarred and feathered in 80% of the media coverage around the country.

Fun Fact: There are no trees on Adak Island. Planted some years ago, but they all died, eventually.
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Old 09-20-2013, 06:47 PM   #22
Undertoad
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Those 58%, do they think they will be asked sex questions which will be revealed by the national news?

Did they read the entire bill, or something? Cos everything rolled out so far are the popular parts.
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Old 09-20-2013, 08:45 PM   #23
Adak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Undertoad View Post
Those 58%, do they think they will be asked sex questions which will be revealed by the national news?

Did they read the entire bill, or something? Cos everything rolled out so far are the popular parts.
No, the idea of the feds getting personal info on everyone, for every damn thing, including phone calls, emails, texts, etc., just seems quite WRONG. Obama saying on national TV that they DON'T spy on us, just before the revelations about Prism, really convinces me that our politicians will lie to us, as much as they think they can get away with.

After Prism, Benghazi (oh, it was a video demonstration, remember?), and all the rest of it, I'm sick of the liars - and I wouldn't trust them for nothing.

But the popular problem with OCare is that it's costing people and businesses more money (naturally, you can't insinuate the feds into such a large part of our economy this much, without substantial costs), and lots of people are being cut back in work hours per week, to avoid the cost to their employer.

Even the author of OCare says it's now a bunch of garbage, because of the way it's been changed and implemented.
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Old 09-20-2013, 09:21 PM   #24
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Those 58%, they are against O'care for privacy reasons?
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Old 09-20-2013, 09:51 PM   #25
Adak
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Originally Posted by Undertoad View Post
Those 58%, they are against O'care for privacy reasons?
No. They're against OCare because of the way it's being implemented. So, various reasons.

That percentage however, is what spurred the Republicans in the House on, to take todays action (vote).

In 10 days, the Senate and possibly Obama, will have to decide to either live within the current debt limit, (which they can't possibly do, I mean come on, they're democrats), and get Obama care funding support from the House, OR obtain a debt limit increase, but have to drop funding for OCare.

Between now and then I expect there will be a smear campaign deluxe, all over the media. Politicians today can't talk policy - it has to be that their political opponent is personally:

*dumb as a brick
*born stupid and ugly
*can't even talk right
*too blind to see straight ahead in a well lit room
etc.

Nancy Pelosi actually called those who disagree with Obama, "traitors" today. Obama says we're "messing with" him.

It can't *POSSIBLY* be about policy - Oh No! Their socialist policies couldn't possibly be wrong.
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Old 09-20-2013, 10:00 PM   #26
orthodoc
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The reality is that the US has to move to universal coverage. The ACA is a step in that direction, but only a first baby step. It still leaves things in the hands of private insurers, because Americans refuse to contemplate anything else. BUT it takes a few steps to rein in the insurance companies' worst excesses.

I wish we (the US) would take a careful look at how universal health care has worked out in different countries and then modify things to avoid the worst pitfalls. Canada had a great program for a couple of decades, then threw it all away in 1981 with the Canada Health Act. Other countries have developed programs where public and private insurances work side by side. Everyone wins. Canada is coming to that belatedly.

Reining in the insurance companies from a few of their worst sins (unilateral breach of contract, cherry-picking, anti-trust violations) is a start. The ACA will evolve over the next several years. We have to move to a preventive emphasis or our bad habits will bankrupt us. Yes, it means someone telling us what's good for us. But given the 'free' market and the power of multinational corps to manipulate us, we haven't done well. We've let Agribusiness and Fast Food tell us what to eat and how to live. We didn't rebel against that. Maybe we should have enough independence of mind to consider other information, even if it comes from government sources. Chances are, if the information helps us live longer, it isn't a conspiracy against us.
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Old 09-20-2013, 10:10 PM   #27
orthodoc
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adak View Post
It can't *POSSIBLY* be about policy - Oh No! Their socialist policies couldn't possibly be wrong.
Adak, if you're in favor of a nationalized health service, YOU are a socialist in the eyes of your political cronies. And please spare me (us) your hypocrisy about Democrats not being able to live within the current debt limit. Revisit the history of the GOP over the past couple of decades and then retire quietly to the corner.

We need a) the government to continue to function; b) universal health care with private health care available alongside; c) lots of other political goals that aren't pertinent to this thread.
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Last edited by orthodoc; 09-20-2013 at 10:10 PM. Reason: grammatical oops
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Old 09-21-2013, 03:22 AM   #28
Adak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orthodoc View Post
Adak, if you're in favor of a nationalized health service, YOU are a socialist in the eyes of your political cronies. And please spare me (us) your hypocrisy about Democrats not being able to live within the current debt limit. Revisit the history of the GOP over the past couple of decades and then retire quietly to the corner.

We need a) the government to continue to function; b) universal health care with private health care available alongside; c) lots of other political goals that aren't pertinent to this thread.
No, a socialist favors a lot more than just a universal health plan.

We've had a LOT of politicians willing to spend too much / waste too much, of our money, while they served in Washington, currying favor by so doing. Why shouldn't they? It's not THEIR money they're spending, and for the most part, nobody will ever know the true amount of their little continual dips into the debt pool, in time to do anything about it.

George Bush jr., was a great example of that. There was no big surplus of money to pay for his acts of largess. Barrack Obama even called his increase in our national debt quote:

" A failure of leadership ".

And I couldn't agree more! Now that he's the one doing the unprecedented spending that makes Bush look like a Boy Scout in comparison -- well, everything's different --.

Oh yeah, I've got the hypocrites, from both parties, all in a row.

And helping the poor, and the sick, is not socialism - it's a moral duty.
It's how you go about it that makes the difference.

My guess is we'll have a gov't shut down at the end of the month. I can't see the Republicans backing down in the House, or the Democrats giving in, in the Senate. At least, not before the end of the month.

Time to batten down those hatches, everybody. It may be a long shut down, this time.
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Old 09-21-2013, 01:14 PM   #29
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Overheard today:

"My 6-year old is better at handling not getting her way than the Republicans"
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Old 09-21-2013, 04:40 PM   #30
Adak
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Show me how the Democrats have compromised, lately!

The last great compromise (the "Contract with America") was when Clinton and Gingrich worked out some reforms and spending cuts, (which helped to really spur growth, and cut our deficit, btw).

And you may recall the gov't went through a shut down also, during their disagreements.

There was no concern in Obama Care for the essential (to my way of thinking at least), equality of the businesses and citizens. We've had:

*No pilot made to determine the REAL impact of Obama Care

*No period of study of the regulations (now at 10,000+ pages), before the bill was passed. It was "Vote for it now, and we'll write up the regulations for it later".

Health care is important to us all, and a huge part of our economy, as well. Don't just ram this down our throats and tell us to swallow it, or else.

Eliminating pre-existing conditions, allowing cross state competition among health care providers, and passing the 85% efficiency rule, along with Tort reform, would have been something both parties could have agreed to.

With the exemptions by the thousands coming out of Washington for Obama Care, I see a large loss of income for the program, and a large loss of people getting the health care.

How can you have the businesses with the most employees, getting opted out of the program? The whole purpose was to give these employees, health insurance - and thus get subscribers (businesses) paying into the program - not exemptions from it.
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