The Cellar  

Go Back   The Cellar > Main > Home Base

Home Base A starting point, and place for threads don't seem to belong anywhere else

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-18-2007, 07:57 AM   #106
Radar
Constitutional Scholar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Ocala, FL
Posts: 4,006
Well, that's my main problem with the courts. They try to "interpret" a document that was written in simple English. It doesn't require interpretation. It isn't vague or ambiguous in the slightest. It means exactly what it says and in any case where someone has a question, the tie goes to the runner meaning if there's a case where a power could belong to the government or the people, it belongs to the people.
__________________
"I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death."
- George Carlin
Radar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2007, 08:53 AM   #107
yesman065
Banned - Self Imposed
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,847
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cicero View Post
They could impress each other with the make and model of their new wheelchairs.
They don't need wheelchairs - they can still walk around????

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanaC View Post
Either the judicial system is there to ensure justice, or it's there to provide vengeance. Individual victims may seek vengeance, but society, I believe, should provide justice.
Where does prevention come in or rehabilitation??? I don't think that putting these kids in jail for any period of time is "punishment." They probably have many friends and family members there already anyway - and when they get out they just wear the fact that they were in as a badge of honor.

As for rehab - There is no rehabbing anyone who does something like this - they should simply be shot, injected or whatever - Instead of spending OUR money on keeping them alive, lets put it toward the children that are savable. The judicial system is full of people who are NEVER coming out and we are all paying for them - dearly I might add.
yesman065 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2007, 09:27 AM   #108
xoxoxoBruce
The future is unwritten
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 71,105
Just think of the billions we spend to keep those evil pot smokers locked up.
__________________
The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.
xoxoxoBruce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2007, 09:34 AM   #109
Undertoad
Radical Centrist
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Cottage of Prussia
Posts: 31,423
It's not the meaning of the word "and" that requires interpretation, it's the meaning of the words "cruel" and "unusual".

Dwellars please follow: according to Radar's "no interpretation necessary" understanding of the US Constitution, having a wild animal chew off a prisoner's genitals is not "cruel and unusual".

There's no stronger case for the need for court interpretation, instead of Radar non-interpretation. Luckily the framers left the job of interpretation up to the courts instead of just assuming we'd all understand what it says.
Undertoad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2007, 09:37 AM   #110
xoxoxoBruce
The future is unwritten
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 71,105
Unusual is pretty easy, cruel is quite open to interpretation, however.

Wait a minute... If it says cruel and unusual, does that mean it can be cruel if it's not unusual? Or unusual if it's not cruel?
__________________
The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.
xoxoxoBruce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2007, 09:40 AM   #111
yesman065
Banned - Self Imposed
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,847
Lets instead use that money for some real rehabilitatable individuals or something where we can actually make a beneficial difference to/for society - not just neatly hiding the evildoers in a corner and feeling good that they were "punished." Wipe this scum off the face of the earth and move on. Help those that want, we can, and deserve our help.
yesman065 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2007, 09:43 AM   #112
Radar
Constitutional Scholar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Ocala, FL
Posts: 4,006
Quote:
Originally Posted by rkzenrage View Post
Exactly, justice is never vengeance and vengeance is never justice.
Punishment for crimes is not vengeance and it is justice.
__________________
"I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death."
- George Carlin
Radar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2007, 09:47 AM   #113
Radar
Constitutional Scholar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Ocala, FL
Posts: 4,006
Quote:
Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce View Post
Unusual is pretty easy, cruel is quite open to interpretation, however.

Wait a minute... If it says cruel and unusual, does that mean it can be cruel if it's not unusual? Or unusual if it's not cruel?
That's exactly what it means. It means a judge can sentence you to stand with a sandwich board around you on a corner that says you are a pedophile. This is unusual, but not cruel.
__________________
"I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death."
- George Carlin
Radar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2007, 09:53 AM   #114
yesman065
Banned - Self Imposed
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,847
re: cruel and unusual punishment - Since putting them in prison or juvenile detention doesn't seem to work - JUST a question or 2.

Is the thought of going to jail a deterrent to these types of people? Apparently not - therefore...

Would the thought of their life ending VERY quickly? And I meaqn without years of delays and appeals? I gotta think that even the most immoral assholes gotta value, if nothing else their lives.
yesman065 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2007, 09:59 AM   #115
Kintups
Person Who Has Posted
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2
Who's to blame ?

It seems fitting that the guilt be burdened by the parents of these criminals. Their death sentence be made manditory to be viewed in person by their parents. As well as full coverage by nationl Television. The ones who raised these children are certainly more to blame than the perpetrators.
Kintups is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2007, 10:02 AM   #116
Radar
Constitutional Scholar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Ocala, FL
Posts: 4,006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Undertoad View Post
It's not the meaning of the word "and" that requires interpretation, it's the meaning of the words "cruel" and "unusual".

Dwellars please follow: according to Radar's "no interpretation necessary" understanding of the US Constitution, having a wild animal chew off a prisoner's genitals is not "cruel and unusual".

There's no stronger case for the need for court interpretation, instead of Radar non-interpretation. Luckily the framers left the job of interpretation up to the courts instead of just assuming we'd all understand what it says.
The framers gave the courts no such "interpretation" powers in the Constitution. Also, having a wild animal chew off a prisoner's genitals is very cruel, but if applied widely to a lot of people it's not unusual. Therefore it's not cruel AND unusual.

There are many who would agree that this is an appropriate form of punishment for child molesters.
__________________
"I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death."
- George Carlin
Radar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2007, 10:10 AM   #117
yesman065
Banned - Self Imposed
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,847
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kintups View Post
It seems fitting that the guilt be burdened by the parents of these criminals. Their death sentence be made manditory to be viewed in person by their parents. As well as full coverage by nationl Television. The ones who raised these children are certainly more to blame than the perpetrators.
Uh, no I don't think so - for many reasons.
yesman065 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2007, 10:15 AM   #118
Kintups
Person Who Has Posted
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2
It seems fitting that the guilt be burdened by the parents of these criminals. Their death sentence be made manditory to be viewed in person by their parents. As well as full coverage by national Television.
.
The ones who raised these children are certainly more to blame than the perpetrators. Overall more effective on Societys main issue. "Raising the future generations members".
.
Put the blame where it belongs.
Kintups is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2007, 10:24 AM   #119
yesman065
Banned - Self Imposed
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,847
Quote:
Originally Posted by yesman065 View Post
Uh, no I still don't think so - for many reasons.
yesman065 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2007, 11:00 AM   #120
wolf
lobber of scimitars
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Phila Burbs
Posts: 20,774
Quote:
Originally Posted by AgentApathy View Post
These "kids" committed a very adult crime. They planned it, and worse yet, they planned it en masse, even to the point of bringing condoms. That alone shows that they knew what they were planning was wrong because they hoped to conceal it, all before actually committing it.
Let's be fair. They may not have planned bringing along the condoms.

Their school probably gave the rubbers to them.
__________________
wolf eht htiw og

"Conspiracies are the norm, not the exception." --G. Edward Griffin The Creature from Jekyll Island

High Priestess of the Church of the Whale Penis
wolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:57 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.