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Old 11-19-2003, 09:22 AM   #1
dave
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Why I'll Stick Up For April

When April - aka r9703410 aka Cuddles aka baby doll (guessing) aka whatever else there was - got here, she was given a fair chance to fit in... for a few days. She got pretty irritating with the multiple accounts and the mass PM's and whatnot. When it appeared that she was using the Cellar as her own messageboard, The Tone disabled posting on her account.

She rejoined, promised to play better, and The Tone let it stand. I agreed with this decision, and I still do.

We've had a lot of asshats here. Some of them were asshats throughout their entire stay - Cairo comes to mind. But some of them, when given a chance, really turned it around. slang was an asshat his first week or so, but we gave him a chance, he took advantage of it, and now he's a valued member of the community (and one with deer meet, too). Ciara was an asshat right off the bat, and after a very tough hazing, we kind of accepted her and offered her help. She might not hang around right now, but she left on a good note. Even Radar, the asshat-iest of them all (well, maybe not) is showing some signs of normalcy and isn't nearly as irritating as he used to be.

April comes here with a unique story. No one can really say whether or not it's true for certain. Part of me hopes it is, because I don't like being lied to. Part of me hopes it's not, because it's a hard situation to thrive in. Regardless, she has demonstrated a <b>desire to improve</b>. She's trying not to annoy people and getting attacked in the mean time. It's inexcusable.

I don't care if I'm taking the unpopular route by sticking up for her when she deserves it. I'm doing what I think is right.
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Old 11-19-2003, 09:26 AM   #2
Dagney
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**golf clap**

Dave, I agree with what you have to say, and certainly hope that what I say to April is not taken as an attack because it's not meant to be such.

I'm all for giving someone a second/third/fourth chance, but some folks blow it after thier first.

April's not one of them.

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Old 11-19-2003, 09:30 AM   #3
FileNotFound
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You know what Dave,

I'm going to lay off rubbing Aprils face in her shit for a while just for you to come back to your senses and do it yourself.

I'm dying to see how long that it'll take. It's ok. No rush. I'm patient.

Enjoy your new friendship...but remember. Shes' only here cause she's bored. Not for any other reason what so ever. She just has nowhere else to go. She has no interst in the cellar, the people, you, me, just something to keep her from being bored.
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Old 11-19-2003, 09:42 AM   #4
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I don't -care-.

I don't think you have any interest in it other than making yourself feel superior. I'm not petitioning Tony to remove your account. And if you were unjustly attacked, even though I don't particularly care for you, I would stick up for you too. I'm doing what I think is right, and I'll continue to do so.
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Old 11-19-2003, 09:50 AM   #5
lumberjim
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Re: Why I'll Stick Up For April

Quote:
Originally posted by dave


We've had a lot of asshats here. Some of them were asshats throughout their entire stay - Cairo comes to mind. But some of them, when given a chance, really turned it around. slang was an asshat his first week or so, but we gave him a chance, he took advantage of it, and now he's a valued member of the community (and one with deer meet, too). Ciara was an asshat right off the bat, and after a very tough hazing, we kind of accepted her and offered her help. She might not hang around right now, but she left on a good note. Even Radar, the asshat-iest of them all (well, maybe not) is showing some signs of normalcy and isn't nearly as irritating as he used to be.

I'm doing what I think is right.
So...you are running a sort of "asshat rehab"? well, dave I think you've got your work cut out for you this time, and I hope you can pull it off. Quite a cinderella story if you can

~~a young asshat joins a very highbrow and sarcastic online forum. Some say she is way out of her depth. She stumbles at first, making all the classic rookie mistakes. It actually gets so bad she is banned. But she is a persistent little thing and comes back strong. Now, with even more adversity, she takes the high road, and with the help of a very special Dave, comes through with flying colors. At her peak, she is elected vice president of the sarcasm department. And then, just as she reaches her peak, she encounters the biggest adversity of her young life. Her computer crashes, and she has spent all of her money on condoms on the advice of filenotfound, and cannot afford the needed repairs. See how she deals with this challenge in our exclusive mini-series on cbs sunday night at 7pm.~~~~
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Old 11-19-2003, 09:57 AM   #6
FileNotFound
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Quote:
Originally posted by dave
And if you were unjustly attacked, even though I don't particularly care for you, I would stick up for you too.
Oh Dave the saviour, I feel so safe and happy knowing that you're out patrolling these forums, hunting down these unjust attackers and protecting the innocent humble victims. Oh Dave, my prayers go out to you!

Knowing that these forums have a self proclaimed "cop" really puts my mind at ease. Knowing that you'll be out there to save me from the foul attackers will let me sleep better at night.

On second thought...it won't. In fact, don't you think that doing what "you" think is right and attacking those whom 'you' percieve to be unjust is a bit...conceited? Do you do this to make yourself feel better? Does your desire to control this board come out of your lack of control of your life?

But then again, maybe you're just this philantrophistic samaritan out to save the world....but I doubt it.
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Old 11-19-2003, 10:00 AM   #7
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Re: Re: Why I'll Stick Up For April

Quote:
Originally posted by lumberjim
So...you are running a sort of "asshat rehab"? well, dave I think you've got your work cut out for you this time, and I hope you can pull it off. Quite a cinderella story if you can

~~a young asshat joins a very highbrow and sarcastic online forum. Some say she is way out of her depth. She stumbles at first, making all the classic rookie mistakes. It actually gets so bad she is banned. But she is a persistent little thing and comes back strong. Now, with even more adversity, she takes the high road, and with the help of a very special Dave, comes through with flying colors. At her peak, she is elected vice president of the sarcasm department. And then, just as she reaches her peak, she encounters the biggest adversity of her young life. Her computer crashes, and she has spent all of her money on condoms on the advice of filenotfound, and cannot afford the needed repairs. See how she deals with this challenge in our exclusive mini-series on cbs sunday night at 7pm.~~~~
Just so you know, homeboy, there were some discussions about the Cellar this weekend and I don't remember anyone being particularly enthusiastic about you. I actually had the kindest words. You might not be as outwardly annoying as she was at first, but you haven't impressed anyone either. So perhaps before making fun of others you should examine your posting habits.
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Old 11-19-2003, 10:08 AM   #8
dave
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Quote:
Originally posted by FileNotFound
Oh Dave the saviour, I feel so safe and happy knowing that you're out patrolling these forums, hunting down these unjust attackers and protecting the innocent humble victims. Oh Dave, my prayers go out to you!
That was soooooooooooo funny! Did you write that yourself?

Quote:
On second thought...it won't. In fact, don't you think that doing what "you" think is right and attacking those whom 'you' percieve to be unjust is a bit...conceited?
And yet if no one did just that, no one would have stopped Hitler. They would have said "Well, he could be right. I have no backbone, so I'll sit around like a bag of slop and let him do whatever he likes!"

Quote:
Do you do this to make yourself feel better? Does your desire to control this board come out of your lack of control of your life?
Yes, that's exactly it. You've got me pegged! And yet, it's not me that's posting about how my girlfriend drives me fucking mad because she's borderline retarded and believes there's something useful behind Astrology.

Quote:
But then again, maybe you're just this philantrophistic samaritan out to save the world....but I doubt it.
No, that's not it either. At the end of the day, I want to feel like what I did was right. And what I know is not right is picking on someone that's trying to do the best they can with limited means in an awkward situation.

Hey, you're here in the country, and you've made it. You've got a job, a stupid girlfriend, and all is well. Where would you be if no one ever gave you a hand?
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Old 11-19-2003, 10:18 AM   #9
lumberjim
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Re: Re: Re: Why I'll Stick Up For April

Quote:
Originally posted by dave


Just so you know, homeboy, there were some discussions about the Cellar this weekend and I don't remember anyone being particularly enthusiastic about you. I actually had the kindest words. You might not be as outwardly annoying as she was at first, but you haven't impressed anyone either. So perhaps before making fun of others you should examine your posting habits.
ouch.

c'mon dave, take a friggin joke. I'm funny. that last post was especially funny. and, you know, honestly, i WOULD like the people here to like me. I usually sneak posts in while im working, so forgive me if i don't get real deep when i post, but im not that serious of a person. Where am i weak in my posting habits? or are you just grumpy about fnf's obvious attempts to stir you up. don't take the heat from him. and definately don't vent it towards me. I've taken your back in most of the threads that we have intersected on. I know I'm new, and maybe I do post a lot, but when i think of something funny, i like to let it out there.

I'm not here to make fun of anyone, but if an opportunity presents itself...hey.....and i wasn't making fun of you or april in that last post, just commenting on the humor of the situation.

deep breaths....in....out...in...out
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Old 11-19-2003, 10:42 AM   #10
bmgb
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Why I'll Stick Up For April

Quote:
Originally posted by lumberjim
I'm not here to make fun of anyone, but if an opportunity presents itself...hey.....and i wasn't making fun of you or april in that last post, just commenting on the humor of the situation.
I thought it was hilarious. Especially for a sneak post.
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Old 11-19-2003, 10:47 AM   #11
FileNotFound
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Quote:
Originally posted by dave
That was soooooooooooo funny! Did you write that yourself?

Yes. I'm glad you liked it.


And yet if no one did just that, no one would have stopped Hitler. They would have said "Well, he could be right. I have no backbone, so I'll sit around like a bag of slop and let him do whatever he likes!"


No no no. It was more like. "Oh shit! Hitler is taking over Europe. I think we're next! Better get him while we can. or "Oh shit! Hitler attacked our allies and there is this stupid treaty we had that says we have to help them...damn. Well off we go." And then of course there was Stalin "Hitler's attacking? No don't be silly. We're buddies. Lets wait a few more weeks..."

Yes, that's exactly it. You've got me pegged! And yet, it's not me that's posting about how my girlfriend drives me fucking mad because she's borderline retarded and believes there's something useful behind Astrology.

How is that related? I don't feel any fear of sharing details of my life. I'm not posting details of my life like I'm god, or "Look at my awesome life, my wonderful job, my beautiful car, and my even more beautiful girlfriend.". I'm not bragging. In fact I'm saying that things aren't all so peachy. But then I have control, nothing forces me to be with my gf, nothing forces me to keep my job. If my gf was really retarded as you suspect, then I'd have walked long ago. Everyone has some flaws, I'm not perfect myself. I don't see a bit of superstition and idiotic public myths as something that ruins all hopes of a meaningful relationship.

No, that's not it either. At the end of the day, I want to feel like what I did was right. And what I know is not right is picking on someone that's trying to do the best they can with limited means in an awkward situation.

Hey, you're here in the country, and you've made it. You've got a job, a stupid girlfriend, and all is well. Where would you be if no one ever gave you a hand?
I feel no pity, no respect nor any sort of compassion nor will I offer support to someone who is dealing with problems that came about as a result of their own stupidity.

Stupid people remain stupid until their stupidity results in them making a nice pile of shit out of their life and forces them to deal with it.

All you teach by helping those retards out, by telling them that "it's ok that you're sitting in a huge pile of your own shit, as long as you want the best and try hard things will be good" is that being a fucktard is ok and people will accept and respect them as the parasites of society that they are.

Yeah so I'm here in the country. One might say that I made it, yet I feel that I've got a long way to go. As far as the people who gave me a hand, well certainly I'd have a tough time without help and would be nowhere near where I am now. Yet the number of people that have helped me is very far from being long. So why not list them:
So far:
My HS councilor who managed to keep me sane despite my father's insanity.
My mother who unlike my father never lost faith in me.
My Drexel University scholarship interviewer who said he saw that I had ambition and talent and handed me a scholarship without which I'd never be able to afford college.
My best friend who's been there when I needed somebody to whine to.

If you knew my life then I'm sure you could argue that a lot of other people should be on the list. After all my father did help me pay for college, shouldn't he be there? Well maybe, but then he did it because he couldn't stand the idea of me not going to college, having a son who didn't have a perfect GPA was difficult enough for him. (He himself has a perfect GPA in college and HS, PhD, 2 books, over 100 publications...the list goes on.)
The truth is that I just can't think of any others who did anything for me that didn't assume a favor exchange, didn't benefit them, or wasn't their job.

I know you'll probably just say "Well File, thatís just cause you're a fucktarded asshole, not like YOU'd help anyone..." the truth is that I've helped a lot of people, yet 80% of the time helping people just left me feeling used and cheated. There are only so many home works you can do for somebody, only so many 6 hour drives you can give somebody just because they asked, only so much money you can let someone "borrow" knowing that you'll never see it again, there is a point at which you come to realize that 99.9% of the people are shit and should be treated as such.

So now before I even consider helping somebody I ask myself : "If I were in their shoes, would they have helped me?". Most of the time I KNOW that the answer is no and yet often I help anyway.

So ask yourself, "Would April come out and put her ass out in the line of fire for my sake?"

So what do you think? Don't lie to yourself, you know she wouldn't.
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Old 11-19-2003, 11:29 AM   #12
dave
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I'm sure she wouldn't. That's not why I'm doing it though.

If it were borrowing money - I don't know her enough. I wouldn't loan her anything. I'd say "You've got to be fucking kidding me." If it were taking her shift at work, I'd say "I'm busy." There are probably a hundred thousand examples where I wouldn't help her out.

Lots of times you can get fucked by helping someone out. I know this. I've loaned money that's never been repaid.

Believe it or not, I - gasp - give to charity. I don't do it because I'm getting something out of it. I do it because <b>I think it's the right thing to do</b>. Some people are less fortunate and it's not their fault. And if that's the situation, and I can help out, I do.

If you can't, or don't want to, that's fine. My <b>only</b> problem with you is that you're being an ass about not helping out.

But it's your preogative, man. I wish you well, despite the fact that I disagree with your actions. I hope that, if you do have a long way to go, you make it. Life is tough. Everyone deserves a good shot at it.
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Old 11-19-2003, 11:43 AM   #13
SteveDallas
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OK FNF let's take an example: my sister.

She gave birth to her first son at age 15. (He's 17 now and lives with my parents.) She later married the father (whose picture might well be in the dictionary next to "ne'er-do-well") for a while and they divorced after a short time. Her second son was born when she was 28. At the time she was in jail, not for the first time, on drug offenses. The kid's father (whose name might well be in the dictionary next to "scuzzbag") has custody, and is about as unfit a parent as you might imagine. But his weasel lawyers have managed to barely keep the courts from awarding custody to my sister. She is now married to a guy she met in rehab, and she seems to be on the straight and narrow. They have a 1-year-old son now and are doing OK. She's cleaned up her life after years of mostly self-induced disaster. But not without a lot of help of many different kinds from the family, especially my parents. So, it's clear she made some really bad decisions and followed them up with some absolutely horrible decisions, and then for good measure finished up with some colossally disastrous decisions. But I'm glad none of the people who helped her decided to let her live in her shit, as you so eloquently say. Glad for her, and especially glad for her sons, who didn't ask for what they got.

I tell you all this so folks will have a little context for my next remark, which otherwise might strike long-time denizens as out of character.

If you can't muster up any compassion for april, fine. At least have some for her kid. If you can't do that much, then just keep you mouth shut and don't freak out just because some other people on a silly trivial message board (sorry UT) decided they weren't going to shun her even though she acted like, well, like a teenager the first time she came on. And if you can't keep your mouth shut about it, then just get the hell out.
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Old 11-19-2003, 11:56 AM   #14
FileNotFound
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SteveDallas,

I am confused by your post. (Yes I know, I've been saying this a lot) So let me see, your sister has so far brought 3 children into this world. The first she's not taking care of. The 2nd she can't even get custody of from a "scuzzbag" (considering that courts almost always give custody to mothers this says a lot) and has now produced a thrid child with a guy she met in rehab?(Awesome place to meet future fathers. Just super!)

At which point should I say "Wow! Way to go girl!"

Yeah I'm glad for her sons too, well mostly the fact that only one of them is in her care.


As I said. It's my opinion that the only way these sort of people will change their ways is if they know that society will not tollerate or help their kind.

As far as your last statement; your opinion on when others should speak and when they should shut up is appreciated and ignored.
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Old 11-19-2003, 12:00 PM   #15
hot_pastrami
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Quote:
Originally posted by FileNotFound
In fact, don't you think that doing what "you" think is right and attacking those whom 'you' percieve to be unjust is a bit...conceited? Do you do this to make yourself feel better?
How is this different from any strong-willed person's behavior? Personally, I will always do what I think is right. Because I must. If I see an injustice being done, I will intervene if I am able, because I must. I think this is true of most people, particularly men and women of principle, and those with a strong sense of right and wrong. The problem arises not from having such tendencies, but rather when one's sense of right and wrong conficts with the majority's.

So if doing what one thinks is right and attacking those whom he/she finds to be unjust is conceited, then I guess I'm conceited, too. Along with just about everybody I know. And you. It appears that you're also doing what you think is right, and attacking someone who you see an being unjust... only wielding an alternate opinion.
Quote:
Originally posted by SteveDallas
If you can't muster up any compassion for april, fine. At least have some for her kid. If you can't do that much, then just keep you mouth shut and don't freak out just because some other people on a silly trivial message board (sorry UT) decided they weren't going to shun her even though she acted like, well, like a teenager the first time she came on. And if you can't keep your mouth shut about it, then just get the hell out.
Agreed. You can like her, dislike her, be indifferent... whatever. But it takes a rather petty man to attack a teenage girl who is being open, honest (presumably), and admitting her mistakes. She's asked for nothing but conversation, and you've given her insults.

If I personally knew a teenage girl with a baby, and some asshole stranger was insulting her about it, telling her how stupid she was, when she didn't ask anything of him, I'd tolerate that for about ten seconds before I'd kick the guy's ass so hard he'd be tasting shoe polish for a week. And I don't think many people would fault me for it.
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