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Old 12-31-2009, 07:16 PM   #136
SamIam
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloud View Post
why is it our fault, and not Nigeria or Holland? blaming the target?
The Dutch claim that the US was opposed to them using their full body scanners because of privacy issues. But the Dutch now have two scanners that show a more stylistic picture of the person being scanned instead of pictures of folk's genetalia.
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Old 01-02-2010, 11:53 PM   #137
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I also head it was against Dutch privacy laws.
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Old 01-03-2010, 08:19 AM   #138
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A short interesting analysis.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/03/we...nhaus.html?hpw
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Old 01-03-2010, 09:31 AM   #139
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Originally Posted by Cloud View Post
why is it our fault, and not Nigeria or Holland? blaming the target?
Nope, according to the Telegraph, you're blaming us.
Interested to read how well Muslims are integrated in the US though. Learn something new every day.
Article here.
Snippets here:
Quote:
Americans blame Britain for rise of Islamic extremism
Britain has been accused of being a “menace to the outside world” as American anger over the UK’s perceived failure to tackle Islamic extremism intensified.

By Toby Harnden in Washington
Published: 10:03PM GMT 30 Dec 2009

Senior policymakers in the United States said the attempted suicide bomb attack by Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, who is thought to have become radicalised in London, was further evidence that one of the biggest threats to US security came from Britain, where the capital has been dubbed “Londonistan” by critics.

There was also criticism of the “ghettoisation” of British Muslims, compared with the “assimilation” of Muslims in America.

Muslim immigrants to the US were much better integrated in society and considered themselves Americans “within a generation” because the US embraced the “melting pot” concept, said Marc Thiessen, former chief speechwriter for President George W Bush and a former Pentagon aide.

“That doesn’t exist in Europe in the same way and particularly in Britain, which is a more socially stratified society than the US,” he said. “They live in Muslim ghettoes and feel alienated from the larger society and not accepted.”

Daniel Pipes, a scholar on radical Islam and former adviser to Rudolph Giuliani during his presidential campaign, said: “The UK is a menace to the outside world. It’s been a problem for years now. This is just one more example.”

Charles Allen, a recently-retired veteran CIA officer who was intelligence chief at the Department of Homeland Security under Mr Bush, said: “The British have an immense problem. There are more challenges in Muslim immigrants integrating into British society than there is in America, a lack of assimilation, a great deal of alienation.
Oops, all our fault after all. For being pinkie liberals on the one hand, and fascist ghetto-makers on the other. I do not believe for one minute that the general English approach of stand-offish suspicion and then wholesale tolerance of foreign cultures has anything to do with some terrorists having lived in this country previously. If they had learned to hate this country then they would not have been trying to attack America. If they tolerated this country but hated America they would not have tried to bomb London.

Fruitloops are fruitloops. IRA murderers have started up again in Ireland. Some people like to kill. On one side of the fence you can argue that a liberal attitude gives them the freedom to do so. Or you can argue that a repressed regime gives you the excuse. Or that those fighting against the repressors do (think loyalist paramilitaries).

No good comes of terrorism.
And no good comes from blaming anyone other than terrorists for their actions.
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Old 01-03-2010, 09:37 AM   #140
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That is stupid. Americans do not blame the UK for extremism amongst Muslims. Sure the UK has problems because of the way they have delt with their own immigration issues, but we have our problems too on that front and they are very well known. The Telegraph is fomenting finger pointing.
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Old 01-03-2010, 09:42 AM   #141
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There was also criticism of the “ghettoisation” of British Muslims, compared with the “assimilation” of Muslims in America.


Right. Why, some of my best friends are Muslim. I just wouldn't let one marry my daughter.
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Old 01-03-2010, 09:43 AM   #142
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Good Lord! the Telegraph fomenting finger pointing? I can't believe it :P



[eta] worth remembering that there are different moslem communities in the UK; some of which are very integrated, and some of which are not. When I lived in Bolton, the diferent communities were very mixed. When i came to Yorkshire I found something quite different. That's because the immigration patterns and places of origin were different. In halifax, for example, the majority of moslem immigrants come from one very small geographical area of Pakistan: mostly from the same town. It's a very traditional and old fashioned town and they've brought those values with them. The men look to the old country when they wish to marry and so the girls who come over as their brides tend to be very traditional (many don't speak English). They are almost entirely separate, culturally, from the rest of the town and maintain very strong links with their home communities. This isn't the case everywhere.

I went to a wedding a few years ago, one of my fellow councillor's sons was marrying a girl who'd come over from their hometown. Standing outside the mosque it was blindingly obvious which guests were from Halifax (very traditional in dress and demeanour) and which were from Bradford (much more westernised dress and the women were much less demure in attitude).
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Old 01-03-2010, 09:44 AM   #143
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Originally Posted by TheMercenary View Post
The Telegraph is fomenting finger pointing.
Don't worry - I only read our right wing press for educational purposes. Finger pointing is their raison d'etre.
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Old 01-03-2010, 09:47 AM   #144
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We should all be collectively pointing our fingers at the Saudi's among others...
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Old 01-04-2010, 12:56 PM   #145
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Heh, people are now calling this "Underpantsgate".
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Old 01-05-2010, 11:56 AM   #146
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Underpants Fly might be just as good.
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Old 01-07-2010, 05:29 PM   #147
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say what you want about Obama, he is not afraid to take the hard knocks and accept responsibility; to say, we were wrong, I am responsible, and we're gonna fix it. If it were Bush, he'd be denying accountability and pointing fingers at others.
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Old 01-08-2010, 09:05 AM   #148
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Old 01-08-2010, 02:45 PM   #149
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Latest terrorist attempt:
Cop Hurt By Car Bomb In Northern Ireland
Quote:
A policeman has been seriously injured after a bomb exploded under his car in Northern Ireland.

Peadar Heffron, 33, had just driven off when the blast happened in Milltown Road, Randalstown in County Antrim.

He was taken to hospital and army bomb disposal experts were called to the scene of the attack.

It happened just a few miles from Antrim town, where Sappers Mark Quinsey, 23, and Patrick Azimkar, 21, were shot dead by the Real IRA outside Massereene Army barracks last March.

Northern Ireland Security Minister Paul Goggins condemned the latest atrocity.

He said: "This vile attack will sicken people across Northern Ireland."
The one positive result of the bombing of the World Trade Centre - to me - was that Americans finally started to see that terrorism was not just forceful public opinion. Lack of American support had a real impact on the Troubles. All of a sudden, men like Bobby Sands went from being a martyr, to a criminal. What would American public opinion have been if a 9/11 bomber starved himself to death? Ho hum, one less mouth to feed - as opposed to a political prisoner demanding to be treated as such and not as a criminal.

This is only the most recent attack BTW. Another exmaple was the girlfriend of a police dog handler, targeted in October last year. Car bomb. She escaped with injuries.

These people are well schooled in the divisive and personal nature of terrorism.
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Old 01-08-2010, 03:42 PM   #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundae Girl View Post
The one positive result of the bombing of the World Trade Centre - to me - was that Americans finally started to see that terrorism was not just forceful public opinion.
Exactly when did we Americans think that?
Quote:
Lack of American support had a real impact on the Troubles.
It will likely be less going forward.
Quote:
What would American public opinion have been if a 9/11 bomber starved himself to death? Ho hum, one less mouth to feed - as opposed to a political prisoner demanding to be treated as such and not as a criminal.
?????
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