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Old 05-20-2013, 08:07 PM   #226
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As a result, the age of consent is 12, like in Italy 1924/1929.
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Old 05-21-2013, 11:28 AM   #227
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Old 02-05-2014, 05:05 PM   #228
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From the Washington Post of 5 Feb 2014:
Quote:
The committee condemned church doctrine that it views as out of step with the principles of human rights and child welfare. In blunt language that was a sharp departure from the polite wording so often embraced by diplomats, the committee took particularly aim at church stances on sexual orientation, reproductive health and gender equality.

“While also noting as positive the progressive statement delivered in July 2013 by Pope Francis, the Committee is concerned about the Holy See’s past statements and declarations on homosexuality which contribute to the social stigmatization of and violence against lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender adolescents and children raised by same sex couples,” the report said.

Sister Mary Ann Walsh, spokeswoman for the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, said “anyone bringing attention to the problem [of sex abuse] is moving toward solving it.” But she strongly criticized the U.N. report for weaving issues like contraception and abortion into the report.

“Unfortunately they weakened it by throwing in the whole kitchen sink,” she said Wednesday. “Those are culture war issues. Sex abuse isn’t a culture war issue – it’s a sin and a crime.”
Of course, who in this church is speaking for which interest group? Pope Francis is firing or reassigning significant numbers of Vatican officials for obvious reasons. The Church has long been suspected of laundering money for the Mafia. Made more obvious by a man hanging by the neck from a London bridge. The Pope recently removed four of five Cardinals in charge of Vatican bank - all having been promoted by previous Pope Benedict. Benedict also has a history of ignoring (in essense condoning) pedophilia even as the head man on this issue during John Paul II's reign.

Bishops are upset because the UN addresses human rights violations that are acceptable in Church doctrine. "How dare they condemn our doctrine" is the response from some Bishops and Cardinals. Real question is, "How dare those clergy protect and condon human rights violations against children." The report only discusses all those issues related to children's human rights.

The report goes beyond pedophilia. It discusses human rights violations against children that also includes gender stereotyping, and attacks on children whose family might even contain LGBT members.
Quote:
... the right of children to freely express their views constitutes one of the most essential components of children’s dignity and that ensuring this right is a vlegal obligation under the Convention, which leaves no leeway for the discretion of the [Vatican] States parties.
Children freely expressing such goes against current Church doctrine.
Quote:
The Committee recommends that the Holy See assess the number of children born of Catholic priests, find out who they are and take all the necessary measures to ensure the rights of these children to know and to be cared for by their fathers,
Why should the UN even have to mention this? Priests taking responsiblity should be obvious.

The report moves on to address violence, abandonment, torture, corporal punishement, sexual exploitation and abuse, and other human rights violations of children by the Church. These are all but condoned by both Canon Law and Vatican Law. Specifically cited are the Magdalene laundries in Ireland. No wonder church spokesmen are so distressed after doing almost 20 years of ignoring a previous UN report.
Quote:
... a code of silence imposed on all members of the clergy under penalty of excommunication, cases of child sexual abuse have hardly ever been reported to the law enforcement authorities in the countries where such crimes occurred
Report pedophilia and the Church will excommunicate you? Why can I not get on Nixon's and the Church's enemies list? Apparently I am too evil.

Of course, the Pope is not all powerful. He can only change so many things. He has inherited a church long condoned for many human right violations. It even protected pedophiles - as Lynn Abraham (Philadelphia DA) proved a decade ago and Seth Williams proves again only last year. Also blantantly exposed in a bankruptcy and prosecution of the LA dioceses. A Pope can only do so much. His latest effort was major - the removal of all but one Cardinal in the Vatican bank. Even the US is investigating the Vatican bank as a major money launder.

From the report:
Quote:
While being fully conscious that biships and major superiors of religious institutes do not act as representative or delegates of the Roman Pontiff, the Committee nevertheless notes that subordindates in the Catholic religious orders are not bound by obedience to the Pope in accordcane with Canons 332 and 590. The Committe therefore reminds the Holy See that by ratifying the Conventions, it has committed itself to implementing the Convention not only on the terriroty of the Vatican City State but also as the supreme power of the Catholic Church through individual and institutions placed under its authority.
Many in the church have long denied this responsibility; therefore all but condoning human rights violations.

The UN's initial observations of human rights violations were made in 1995. UN is citing and criticizing almost 20 years of insufficient progress by the Church. However one can suspect the UN is empowering this new Pope for a massive house cleaning. This Church contains major power centers that have protected corruption. After 20 years of doing almost nothing, major changes not seen since Pope John XXIII (1960) may be happening.

For 20 years, multiple Popes did nothing; all but condoned corruption. Only one worst example of Church doctrine has been pedophilia.

Last edited by tw; 02-05-2014 at 05:18 PM.
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Old 02-11-2014, 04:00 PM   #229
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They've known about the problem, in the Vatican, for decades. Even had a special commission set up to study it, headed by a leading Cardinal. This was done by the last Pope, not the current one, btw.

The decision made was "we're going to fix this"... by doing as little as possible, whilst sweeping it out of the media.

Tragic to see the EXTRA damage they have wrought on their own congregation's kids, and on the institution of the church itself.
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Old 02-12-2014, 12:27 AM   #230
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adak View Post
They've known about the problem, in the Vatican, for decades. Even had a special commission set up to study it, headed by a leading Cardinal.
Which 'they' and which Cardinal? What happened to the report? Was that what the Pope's Butler was leaking to reporters?
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Old 02-14-2014, 10:17 AM   #231
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tw View Post
Which 'they' and which Cardinal? What happened to the report? Was that what the Pope's Butler was leaking to reporters?
Pope John 23rd knew about the problem. He had Cardinal Alfredo Ottaviani, Secretary of the Sacred Congregation of the Holy Office, send out an official notification of how these cases should be handled.

Ottaviani was the most powerful Cardinal at that time. This was in 1962, and John 23rd was in his last year as Pope.

In 1983, Cardinal Ratzinger and others pushed through a revision to the Church law, explicitly including sex with minors, as a serious crime. Ratzinger was a very powerful Cardinal (later, Pope Benedict 16th). It wasn't until the scandal was circling the globe in 2001, that Pope John 2nd finally called it a serious crime ("grave sin"), and reinforced the position of the church that all such crimes should be reported to the local authorities.

2002 - Background checks for priests in the US only, required by the Church.

2005 - Pope Benedict accused in Texas, of covering up a case of church sex with minors. George Bush and others, helped exclude the Pope, from the lawsuit.

Check out "Vatican Responses" section here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_sex_abuse_cases

for much more info. They tell you what the Vatican did, but don't tell you what the Vatican didn't, do, to correct this problem. For instance, if background checks were needed to help fight the problem in the US, why weren't they used in Australia, Philippines, Ireland, UK, and (perhaps), globally?

The Vatican denied it was a serious problem, for far too long. Then they denied it was a problem anywhere else except in the US and maybe Canada. Then it blew up in their faces, globally. I doubt if the Catholic Church will ever recover what it has lost.

Last edited by Adak; 02-14-2014 at 10:29 AM.
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Old 02-14-2014, 03:08 PM   #232
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adak View Post
I doubt if the Catholic Church will ever recover what it has lost.
I think you're correct. The church is pretty much over except in Africa where its policies smell like radical islam.
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Old 02-14-2014, 07:36 PM   #233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Griff View Post
The church is pretty much over except in Africa where its policies smell like radical islam.
What do you mean by 'over'. Over as in dead? Or over doing a cover up and protection of people who promote hate?

Apparently the Vatican has recently released historical details of Pope Pius reign during WWII. It discusses support for Mussolini (for Vatican political reasons) followed by regret and inaction as Mussolini and Hitler became close friends.

Have similar historical facts been released by the Vatican for Pope John XXIII? Is that why (or if) details about Ottaviani recently become available?

Was any of this pedophilia problem part of so many leaks by Pope Benedict's butler?
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Old 02-26-2014, 09:42 PM   #234
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The questions remain unanswered when it should cause major news stories and discussion.
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Originally Posted by tw View Post
I am amazed how nobody is commenting about widespread and condoned pedophilia by the Catholic Church in ...
An Italian prosecutor has, essentially, warned this Pope that he could be targeted for assasination ... if not something else. The widespread pedophilia all but openly protected by the Archdiocese of Philadelphia and essentially permitted by a Pennsylvania State Legislature for at least 10 years is only a tip of an iceberg. An institution so corrupt that it would have no problem electing Richard Nixon as a Saint.

Routine money laundering recently exposed when one top church official was caught trying to sneak 20 million Euros to what was probably secret accounts in Switzerland. May explain, in part, why US regulators empowered by a government not bought and paid for by the rich is heavily prosecuting or restricting six largest Swiss banks (see the latest stories about Credit Suisse) for money laundering.

Why did the Pope's Butler leak documents so detailed that even Wooodward and Bernstein could only wish they had seen similar during their investigations? And after he was caught and sentenced, how or why was this Butler released with all benefits (ie Pensions) restored?

Most of the Curia (those who actually run the church) are probably some of the world's greatest white collar criminals. Corruption is said to be in every leadership position. But a guerilla war may be ongoing. With dangers that may make tame Lukid's successuful calls for murder of their own Prime Minister. Insurgents apparently got the Pope's ear after he had previously thrown them out without listening. His Butler's leaks (see Vatileaks) and a mild public outcry apparently made Pope Benedict realize he is only a puppet of a powerful crime institution. Or he may have realized it was time to get out while looking innocent; leaving other to be accused.

Benedict previously appointed a top manager to the Vatican Bank. Corrupt Cardinals in the Curia literally fired him with contempt. The Pope was never told. He learned of it much later on Italian TV news. Corrupt leadership is that massive and that powerful.

No accident is that seven dioceses adjacent to Philadelphia ignored Catholic church sponsored pedophilia. Refused to prosecute or even investigate. No accident is that Pennsylvania lawmakers refused for ten years to create laws to permit prosecution of pedophile priests. Even refused to pass laws after government protection of Sandusky (by PA DA Corbett) was exposed. The church has that much power, in part, because so many are so brainwashed as to endorse religious beliefs rather than what is their obligations as humans. Catholics, like all humans, are responsible for being informed.

Frontline confirmed what The Economist and UN defined as high level corruption. But Frontline makes the extent of that corruption vast. It was no accident that a church bank official was found hanging by his neck dead from a London bridge. Nobody was prosecuted or even suspected for the crime. An institution now suspected so corrupt that virutally every major nation's banking system has put Church transactions under investigation.

Do not blame all. Otherwise you might encourage deaths by friendly fire. There exists a major insurgency. Meanwhile, every Catholic should be apologizing for being part of a world wide criminal organization that may be the world's largest crime family. Apologizing if not previously publically critical of a crime family headed by a father, son, and holy ghost (is that their hitman?).

Active sex parties may be routine especially in and around Vatican City. Frontline shows video from these parties. Only summarized is a small part what Fronltine presented:
Secrets of the Vatican Preview and
Secrets of the Vatican or
PBS .

Last edited by tw; 02-26-2014 at 09:49 PM.
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Old 02-27-2014, 11:29 PM   #235
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Maybe try this link:
Secrets of the Vatican
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Old 04-20-2014, 10:54 AM   #236
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From CBS New of 20 April 2014:
Quote:
How much change can Pope Francis bring to the Catholic Church?

"The change in the image of the papacy and the Vatican throughout the world" in one year, ... "is nothing short of remarkable."

But a church riven by internal conflict and laboring under the shame of its priestly child-abuse scandal ... is still waiting to see what substantive changes this "Pope of the People" might bring.

"So the question comes up then: what's changed really?" asked Phillips.

"Nothing," Father Dodaro replied, "unless you think style is a lot more important than content -- and a lot of people do." ...

Still, Francis has raised expectations of change in at least one area -- the complex theological quagmire of the Church's response to Catholic couples who divorce and then re-marry. It is anticipated that they might be accepted back into the Church.

"That's the expectation, yes," said Father Dodaro.

Will it happen? "I don't know," he said. "Pope Francis wants this debate to take place. That's remarkable in itself."

... Radical reform of Church doctrine is not what they had in mind when they chose Francis.

Longtime writer on Church affairs Massimo Franco thinks the popular view of Francis as a potential reformer may be based on wishful thinking. ...

Already there is grumbling that Francis doesn't understand how the Church's powerful administrative structure -- the Roman Curia -- really works; that he doesn't value the Cardinals who run its various departments or appreciate the work they do. ...

"These cardinals who are working in the Roman Curia are seasoned Church bureaucrats," ... "So there's pushback, yes. Now, is that significant? I think not. You'd have to be naive to think you were going to come in and reform the Roman Curia and everyone was going to applaud you."
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Old 04-20-2014, 11:14 AM   #237
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Quote:
How much change can Pope Francis bring to the Catholic Church? ...
Depends on how large his collection basket is.

Your intense interest suggests you're thinking of becoming Catholic tw. As a layperson; or, as a priest? Father Tom, has a nice ring to it. You could work your way up the totem pole and make reforms. In return, they'll make you a saint!
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Old 04-20-2014, 12:00 PM   #238
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To become a saint, one must perform three miracles. That means spending an entire life learning how to perform magic tricks. After death, they study your life. If they cannot ascertain how three tricks worked, then one becomes a Saint.
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Old 04-25-2014, 09:08 AM   #239
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From CBS News:
Quote:
John Paul II was put on the fast track of a process that usually takes decades, if not centuries.
In response to chants of "Santo Subito," meaning "make him a saint now" at John Paul II's funeral, Pope Benedict XVI dispensed with the mandated five-year waiting period for the work on proving sainthood to begin.
He was not a good magician. For example, he failed to make pedophiles disappear. So they are making an exception to the 'miracle rule'. Politics are more important than truth.
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Old 04-25-2014, 12:54 PM   #240
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