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Old 10-01-2014, 06:23 PM   #16
sexobon
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Originally Posted by Undertoad View Post
feels like old times
like we may have to reboot Iraq
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Old 10-01-2014, 06:49 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by infinite monkey View Post
This has to be done:

Boots on the ground
Boots on the ground
Lookin' like a fool witcha boots on the ground...

Word
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Old 10-01-2014, 10:43 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Griff View Post
Interesting that tw has fallen for the intervention this time.
Then you did not comprehend what was posted.

Three clear points were listed. Please explain how each or any justifies intervention? Please explain why intervention is justified when the 'powers that be' are forced to take responsiblity?
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Old 10-02-2014, 05:41 AM   #19
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Your mistake is believing the Administration.
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Old 10-04-2014, 06:16 PM   #20
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Obama is stepping into a fiasco

I don't think anyone believes you can fight terrorism from the air. (Although that drone thing has seemed to be somewhat effective) Isn't the problem that the Country is faced with fighting an ideology being employed by a group of people that don't value all human life? As long as there are militant human beings to indoctrinate with this agenda the fight will continue ad infinitum. Isn't the bigger problem a President who is reticent to do anything which might appear to be said to be Anti-Islam? However a peace loving person is a peace loving person no matter the faith. My take, ISIS is a group of marauders not Islamists or any other legitimate faith.
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Old 10-04-2014, 08:17 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Griff View Post
Your mistake is believing the Administration.
Apparently my mistake is thinking you were serious. Sorry.
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Old 10-04-2014, 08:59 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by crweeks64 View Post
Isn't the bigger problem a President who is reticent to do anything which might appear to be said to be Anti-Islam?
Problem is an America so militarized (with veins now hanging from teeth) and so uneducated (due to Limbaugh style rhetoric) as to even justify Pearl Harboring of other nations.

Three fundamental rules justify war. Best we do (did) is let things get nasty for two incompetent leaders (Karzai and Maliki) so that reality finally replaced their bubblized perspectives. Same applies to every nation in that region. By literally making Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Israel, and Jordan fear, most (but not Israel) have suddenly decided they must take responsibility for their region. Legislatures in Turkey and Jordan have actually decided to be responsible or address their imprudent emotions. Egypt and some Gulf states have responded by acting more responsible.

George Jr supporters would now have us fully in combat in Korea, Ukraine, Iraq, Syria, and Yemen. Thank god our government is no longer lead by Cheney style extremists with big dics and no grasp. Same people even said Gestapo style torture, Guantanamo, and extraordinary rendition is good.

Fools justify attacking religious extremists using rhetoric that once massacred so many Americans wastefully in Vietnam. "Either we fight them there or fight them here." Nonsense.

Time for them to take responsibility for themselves. America is not the world's policeman. But we are respected, intelligent, and admired when we use power with discretion. A philosophy that clearly did not exist between 2000 and 2008.

We have deployed limited support functions to the few we have promised. Support functions are not 'boots on the ground'. Foolish to deploy combat troops when three conditions necessary for war obviously do not exist.
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Old 10-04-2014, 09:50 PM   #23
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I don't think anyone believes you can fight terrorism from the air. (Although that drone thing has seemed to be somewhat effective).
As have the Warthogs... maybe that's why the Army wants them gone so badly.

Welcome to the Cellar, crweeks64.
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Old 10-04-2014, 10:12 PM   #24
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lol ... I'm drinking a lil wine and smiling.
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Old 10-05-2014, 07:08 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by tw View Post
Apparently my mistake is thinking you were serious. Sorry.
I am quite serious, we're going to get sucked into this thing.
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Old 10-05-2014, 09:35 AM   #26
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I am quite serious, we're going to get sucked into this thing.
Maybe. For similar reasons, we were drawn into WWII. And that was also good. By waiting for three fundamental principles, then we were drawn into a war that everyone begged us to join, forcing all to accept new principles, with domestic attitudes that made defeat impossible, with world wide situations that made it inevitable that we would win, and with resulting phase four planning, economic realities, and civilian educations that fundamentally changed the world to benefit most all.

Vietnam was America's first military defeat because we jumped into a war in violation of all three principles. Because big dics such as Nixon, LeMay, and Westmoreland even lied to get us into that war or to make it worse. Iraq has been nothing but a disaster for similar reasons. In both cases, all three necessary principles did not exist.

Situation must become so bad that all regional 'powers that be' have first done everything possible to solve it. They must first have a necessary attitude to take on what is *their* responsibility. And that even means Israel. Only then does America have any business being involved. Involvement that then means support from almost every other world nation. Situation must first get that bad.

Why was Desert Storm such a resounding military success? Almost every world nation participated with direct support of all types. America did not even pay for that war; the rest of the world did. Even explains no serious, resulting recession. Japan paid the most. America paid almost nothing because all three principles clearly existed before deployment.

Virtually every European nation was fully involved in directly assisting and expediting American troop deployments. Even Russia and China provided assistance. Even S American countries were actively spying for the liberation of Kuwait.

Yes we may be drawn into a war. It might happen. As it did in the Balkans. That will be a disaster (economic, political, and military) if we do not wait for all others to first decide to get off their ass, suffer losses, and then decide THEY have a problem. And again, that even means Israel must replace their wacko extremist, self serving, and destructive attitude with a responsible one.

ISIS is a rather good thing. For it changes everything. Like Hitler, it forces the 'powers that be' to take responsibility. To face economic, political, and military obligations. To work cooperatively. It even forced an end to colonialism. If the 'powers that be' wake up and become responsible, then harm that ISIS does to those nations can result in changes similar to what finally happened in Europe after WWII.

Many see fear and hype due to extremist (ie Limbaugh cheapshot) rhetoric. I see a necessary and probably inevitable crisis that can finally force the region to make necessary changes. But first we must let it become so tragic that most every civilian in every adjacent nation feels severe pain. Currently, pain is only superficial. Only then will the region accept necessary changes. Only then would all be ready for American assistance. Only then can this region maybe even fix itself without American involvement.

A region cannot be fixed until pain is massive; such as death rates of 10% of their populations. Unfortunately, because so many adults only think as children (only accept reality when it affects them emotionally), then this situation must get that bad before it can get better. Europeans had to learn same from WWI and WWII. America had to massacre so many uselessly in its Civil War. Because so many adults cannot logically see a bigger picture. Many adults never learn or even deny three fundamental principles necessary to justify war. Most adults unfortunately learn from resulting emotions - like children. Things must get that bad before so many adults finally are willing to accept change.

All in that region must learn that religion and secular life are completely separate. Even tolerance is a lesson still not found even in Israel. So many have not not learned even simple lessons of Khalil Gibran. Major disasters must happen before the region finally learns what could have been learned logically as adults; thereby avoiding so much destruction.

Yes I see ISIS as a potentially good thing for reasons that Nazism was so good for Europe. And I see only good things for America IF we stay out until three fundamental principles first exist. Then we are least likely to be drawn in until after 'powers that be' decide to change for the better. Only then can good things happen maybe even without American deployment. Situation in that region has not yet become bad. Despite so much wacko fear in the press that hypes an extremist (Cheney type) agenda that loves war. It just not that bad yet. Too few have died.

Last edited by tw; 10-05-2014 at 09:42 AM.
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Old 10-05-2014, 11:51 AM   #27
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Iraq has been consuming mass quantities of other nation's resources. There should be a UN resolution to rename the country Remulak.
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Old 10-05-2014, 11:56 AM   #28
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I am quite serious, we're going to get sucked into this thing.
Of course we are, because those at the top profit the most from it. While others blindly point fingers at the opposing "team" and try to place blame elsewhere (see above), the reality is that both teams are more similar than different. They comprise the elite party and we are nothing more than cattle to them.
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Old 10-05-2014, 11:59 AM   #29
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Old 10-05-2014, 12:18 PM   #30
sexobon
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Of course we are, because those at the top profit the most from it. While others blindly point fingers at the opposing "team" and try to place blame elsewhere (see above), the reality is that both teams are more similar than different. They comprise the elite party and we are nothing more than cattle to them.
[Bold mine]

Not to mention that Iraqi leaders have taken a lesson from Israeli leaders to stay in perpetual conflict so they can rake in the dough.
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