The Cellar  

Go Back   The Cellar > Main > Politics

Politics Where we learn not to think less of others who don't share our views

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-11-2007, 05:19 PM   #16
Cicero
Looking forward to open mic night.
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: New Mexico
Posts: 5,148
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanaC View Post
It's easy to see peoples' humanity when they're in front of you and desperate. The problem comes in when so many people are unable to see, or dismissive of, the humanity of those who are at a distance.
Ummm....what makes you think we weren't at a distance? That's what I was just talking about. I wasn't clear.
__________________
Show me a sane man, and I will cure him for you.- Carl Jung
Cicero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2007, 03:53 AM   #17
DanaC
We have to go back, Kate!
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 25,964
Ahh. I misunderstood.

I often find that in times of disaster, people set aside their political selves in order to help their fellow humans. What I find difficult to understandn is how that doesn't translate to a more inclusive compassion. They will get involved when a disaster affects many people; but if a family falls into its own personal disaster, that's their own business to deal with. Politically there is a lack of compassion for human frailty and failure, and a lack of compassion for the effects that poverty may have on the individuals concerned.
DanaC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2007, 06:14 AM   #18
Griff
still says videotape
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 26,813
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanaC View Post
What I find difficult to understandn is how that doesn't translate to a more inclusive compassion. They will get involved when a disaster affects many people; but if a family falls into its own personal disaster, that's their own business to deal with. Politically there is a lack of compassion for human frailty and failure, and a lack of compassion for the effects that poverty may have on the individuals concerned.
I don't recognize the people you are describing. Conservatives generally prefer to care for others personally. Funding bureacracies is not the same thing as caring.
__________________
If you would only recognize that life is hard, things would be so much easier for you.
- Louis D. Brandeis
Griff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2007, 08:25 AM   #19
Spexxvet
Makes some feel uncomfortable
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 10,346
Quote:
Originally Posted by Griff View Post
I don't recognize the people you are describing. Conservatives generally prefer to care for others personally. Funding bureacracies is not the same thing as caring.
Of course there are cases of abuse that make us all suspect of charitable organizations, but can't an organization do more than individuls? I've also found that people tend to care for people like themselves - you support a fellow church member or neighbor, for example. Is it likely that that wealthy consrvatives living in the suburbs will personally help a poor single mother and her family living in the city?
__________________
"I'm certainly free, nay compelled, to spread the gospel of Spex. " - xoxoxoBruce
Spexxvet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2007, 08:34 AM   #20
DanaC
We have to go back, Kate!
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 25,964
Quote:
Funding bureacracies is not the same thing as caring.
I'm not talking so much about the funding as I am talking about the attitude and rhetoric. The rhetoric many right-wing politicians adopt when talking about social problems is often scathing and lacking in human empathy for the people who are experiencing those problems. Certainly in this country the right used to orate against such groups as single mothers and the unemployed with a venom that made many of us flinch. Policy followed the rhetoric.
DanaC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2007, 10:53 AM   #21
Clodfobble
UNDER CONDITIONAL MITIGATION
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 20,012
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanaC
Certainly in this country the right used to orate against such groups as single mothers and the unemployed with a venom that made many of us flinch.
The unemployed, yes. "Welfare mothers," yes. But not single mothers. In America single mothers are put on a huge ass altar of martyrdom, by both parties. Some conservatives will quietly fund marriage initiatives, but Dan Quayle was the last person to make the mistake of specifically saying out loud that single motherhood was not as good as being married.
Clodfobble is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2007, 11:48 AM   #22
Cicero
Looking forward to open mic night.
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: New Mexico
Posts: 5,148
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanaC View Post
Ahh. I misunderstood.

I often find that in times of disaster, people set aside their political selves in order to help their fellow humans. What I find difficult to understandn is how that doesn't translate to a more inclusive compassion. They will get involved when a disaster affects many people; but if a family falls into its own personal disaster, that's their own business to deal with. Politically there is a lack of compassion for human frailty and failure, and a lack of compassion for the effects that poverty may have on the individuals concerned.

Dana I did expect them to turn their backs entirely- that's how cynical I was. Don't take my little bit of sunshine away!
I know what you are saying....
We'll pray for you, but keep your grubby hands out of our pocket-books.


You are lucky I just erased two paragraphs of details........
__________________
Show me a sane man, and I will cure him for you.- Carl Jung
Cicero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2007, 12:44 PM   #23
9th Engineer
Bioengineer and aspiring lawer
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 872
There's plenty of frustrations around here about the incompetence of government in keeping regulations and programs on task, relevant, and under control. Take the thread in Home Base about housing and farm regulations as an example. It's the same bunch of people sticking out their hands and saying "we know how to distribute your money better than you do".
__________________
The most valuable renewable resource is stupidity.
9th Engineer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2007, 01:52 PM   #24
Flint
Snowflake
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Dystopia
Posts: 13,136
Quote:
It's the same bunch of people sticking out their hands and saying "we know how to distribute your money better than you do".
Like UT, and this messageboard. He arrogantly distributes our posts, while we would be better served plopping random non sequiturs on the internet, and hoping they connected into threads. Down with the man!
__________________
******************
There's a level of facility that everyone needs to accomplish, and from there
it's a matter of deciding for yourself how important ultra-facility is to your
expression. ... I found, like Joseph Campbell said, if you just follow whatever
gives you a little joy or excitement or awe, then you're on the right track.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Terry Bozzio
Flint is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2007, 02:11 PM   #25
9th Engineer
Bioengineer and aspiring lawer
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 872
Come again?
__________________
The most valuable renewable resource is stupidity.
9th Engineer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2007, 02:16 PM   #26
Shawnee123
Why, you're a regular Alfred E Einstein, ain't ya?
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 21,206
Robotoid
__________________
A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones who need the advice.
--Bill Cosby
Shawnee123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2007, 02:23 PM   #27
9th Engineer
Bioengineer and aspiring lawer
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 872
I meant that it's the same government officials sticking out their hands (use of my taxes), not members of the cellar. Was that it?
__________________
The most valuable renewable resource is stupidity.
9th Engineer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2007, 02:34 PM   #28
Happy Monkey
I think this line's mostly filler.
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: DC
Posts: 13,575
I would think that Flint is suggesting that there are times that central organization is justified and useful.
__________________
_________________
|...............| We live in the nick of times.
| Len 17, Wid 3 |
|_______________| [pics]
Happy Monkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2007, 03:01 PM   #29
lookout123
changed his status to single
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Right behind you. No, the other side.
Posts: 10,308
I find it disappointing that some folks have a hard time distinguishing between some jackass politician's (who happens to be a republican) rhetoric, and what real live individuals who happen to be political conservatives do or think.

So some senator is a firebrand against mom's on welfare. Does that mean that I as a conservative, must drive around looking for poor mothers to spit on? Is it possible that as a person (who happens to lean conservative in fiscal and political discussions) might just be... A PERSON first. I might just go out of my way to help those around me? Or that when I hear about someone in need I'm happy to help in the way I'm best suited?

I'm absolutely against a lot of government programs because I feel they are largely ineffective, generally inefficient, and quite often corrupt from the ground up. I am absolutely in support of helping out those around me when I see a need. I really wish douchebag politicians would quit taking so much of my money so I could help more of the people I see.

It looks kind of like this. If I see an individual who has issues with her car that will cost her $1000 that she just plain doesn't have, I can give her $1000 myself or get a couple of friends to pitch in and help, or I can call a contact and ask him to volunteer his labor to fix the car. But if a politician sees this individual and they think "this poor person needs a thousand dollars, how to do it?" next thing you know he has raised my taxes so I'm out $1000, he takes that $1000 puts it through the government sieve, creates a new program, hires a new bunch of folks to fill the bureaucracy, advertises the program, interviews the needy individuals to decide who is more in need and out of my $1000 this poor individual gets $8 for bus fare. But if they come back next month, they can have $8 more, and the month after that is an election month so they can have $10 so they'll have enough to make it to the polls, cuz "who loves ya baby".

There isn't much that the goverment can do better than we can as individuals.

But see, if they didn't create new programs, then we might not see how important they are, and if we didn't see how important they are we might start thinking we could live without them in Washington, and if we did that... what would happen to them?

Just remember, a government that robs Peter to pay Paul can always count on the support of Paul. or something like that.
__________________
Getting knocked down is no sin, it's not getting back up that's the sin
lookout123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2007, 03:35 PM   #30
Happy Monkey
I think this line's mostly filler.
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: DC
Posts: 13,575
Quote:
Originally Posted by lookout123 View Post
It looks kind of like this. If I see an individual who has issues with her car that will cost her $1000 that she just plain doesn't have, I can give her $1000 myself or get a couple of friends to pitch in and help, or I can call a contact and ask him to volunteer his labor to fix the car.
What if you don't see her?
__________________
_________________
|...............| We live in the nick of times.
| Len 17, Wid 3 |
|_______________| [pics]
Happy Monkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:06 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.