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Old 11-23-2002, 12:20 PM   #16
elSicomoro
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Hey...wait a minute...I think Zorg is on to something here...I think juju is a sociopath!

Seriously though, Juju, why do you think pet ownership is akin to slavery?
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Old 11-23-2002, 05:51 PM   #17
juju
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Because, they're not given a choice of where they live or what they eat. You're forcing both on them.

Also, I'm viciously allergic to cats, and was also allergic to dogs as a child. I was never allowed to own a pet because of this, so I never learned how to "bond" with a dumb animal. I guess that's why I really don't get it.

Also, there are these people who think their pets can "talk". I really don't understand them, either. Sure, you can get some information from their behavior, but when the dog is barking, why bother pretending that it's really perfectly understandable speech?

And what about these people who dress their dogs up in clothes? Weird. Just weird.
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Old 11-23-2002, 06:22 PM   #18
Cam
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Juju, if you had ever owned a pet I guarantee you that you would see things differently. There are very few things that can beat coming home after a long trip and having your dog waiting for you. I lived on a farm and our dog could have run away if she wanted to but she stayed right there and was always excited when we pulled up.
As for the food thing, I can see your point, though if you didn't feed them they would end up starving, it's not like most domestic breeds of dogs are great hunters.
But since you didn't have the opportunit to "bond with a dumb animal" I'll let you get by thinking that owning pets are akin to slavery.
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Old 11-23-2002, 08:09 PM   #19
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I'd like to come back as one of my pet ferrets. Sheesh what a cushy life they have!
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Old 11-23-2002, 10:00 PM   #20
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Having a pet it's really good therapy. I used to come home after long work hours, and wanted nothing but go to bed. Now I work the same amount of hours, but taking my dog out and see she running around, <strike>killing little animals</strike> playing with kids and just doing whatever it's the most relaxing thing.

I own a cute Rottweiler, btw
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Old 11-24-2002, 01:09 AM   #21
helen
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Depends on the pet.

Personally:
xxxx amount of cats.........don't know, don't really care but wouldn't leave one in the gutter to die.
2 sheps.......guard dogs.
1 alpine goat.............pain in the ass...literally.....childs pet though.
3 horses............these I care about and have a connection to.
1 bird...never mind.
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Old 11-24-2002, 04:32 AM   #22
elSicomoro
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Quote:
Originally posted by juju
Because, they're not given a choice of where they live or what they eat. You're forcing both on them.
Imagine if all those dogs and cats were on the street...you'd probably be at a greater risk of contracting a disease from them, or getting injured by one. So, by confining a variety of animals, you are better off. Doesn't that sound nice?

Giving a dog good healthy dog food allows them to live to their fullest. It's a lot better than eating leftover scraps that might have already been infested by flies, yet again protecting you the human.

Quote:
Also, I'm viciously allergic to cats, and was also allergic to dogs as a child. I was never allowed to own a pet because of this, so I never learned how to "bond" with a dumb animal. I guess that's why I really don't get it.
Many animals are incredibly intelligent, such as gorillas and elephants...oh, and humans.

You didn't watch "Lassie" as a child, did you?

Timmy and Lassie went roaming the countryside, having a great old time fishing, exploring, etc. Sometimes, Timmy got caught in bad situations (a foot in a bear trap, sinking in quicksand, etc.), and Lassie would either try to help Timmy on her own, or go for help. Now granted, that's happy feel-good TV, but that sort of thing does occur with human and animal. If a dog helps save your life, or helps you live your life (a seeing-eye dog), can you understand how people might form an attachment with their animals?

For some people, pets are like children. They feed them, and love them, and even dress some of them. And you even have a few that take their pets to psychologists. Now, some of those things may sound a bit extreme to many of us, but there's nothing inherently wrong with that.

Why don't you head over to the library at that school of yours? A school like Arkansas should have a PsychLit database. Head over there, and put in some search parameters like "pets and well-being." You'll be amazed.

If you are allergic to dogs and cats, you should talk to your doctor about a prescription such as Claritin or Allegra. Besides, $20 says your sorry ass STILL hasn't seen the doc about your suspected hypoglycemia. Remember, you ARE listed in the phone book...do we need to call your wife?
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Old 11-24-2002, 09:12 AM   #23
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Lets see, 2 dogs, 1cat, 17chickens, 2geese, and a fish. I used to be anti-cat until we had a red squirel infestation here. I was shooting, poisoning, mustard gassing until Ray decided to step in. Good Kitty. We're talking cattle/sheep/goats/bees, I'm gonna take Helens comment as one vote against goats.
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Old 11-24-2002, 01:04 PM   #24
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Griff you seriuosly don't consider your chickens pets do you. And geese are just plain mean.
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Old 11-24-2002, 04:27 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by sycamore
Imagine if all those dogs and cats were on the street...you'd probably be at a greater risk of contracting a disease from them, or getting injured by one. So, by confining a variety of animals, you are better off. Doesn't that sound nice?
Confining people against their will doesn't sound nice. How about if I lock you up in my basement? Doesn't that sound nice?

And who says they have to live in the street? There are thousands of species of animals that live in the wild quite successfully. Why aren't you concerned about contracting disease from or getting injured by those other animals? Would I be better off keeping a gimp locked up in the basement? Hey, that's one less feral homeless person out there that might attack me!

I realize that animals aren't as smart as humans. So perhaps it's just the natural order of things that we control them. I'm cool with that, really I am. But I still call them like I see them. We control our pets. They're subservient to us. They may enjoy our company and love us, but it's definitely not a partnership of equals. It's one animal dominating another.

I realize that pets make a lot of humans happy. I don't doubt that. I'm mostly addressing the happiness and freedom of the pet, though. I'm sure african slaves made a lot of rich white men happy, too. In the case of pets, it all works out, because pets are too stupid to ask for their freedom back.


Quote:
Originally posted by sycamore
For some people, pets are like children. They feed them, and love them, and even dress some of them. And you even have a few that take their pets to psychologists. Now, some of those things may sound a bit extreme to many of us, but there's nothing inherently wrong with that.
You know, I think the practice of raising children is also slavery. It's most definitely a necessary practice, but it's still slavery. See, just because you love the person whom you're controlling, that doesn't negate the fact that you're still dominating them. Having children is one of the few forms of moral slavery we have left.

Also, just so I don't have to go through and carefully alter my language, i'm just going to state it here: I admit that I could be wrong! This is just the world the way I see it. I'm not saying, "This IS the way it is". Well, okay, maybe I did say that, but I didn't mean it. What I meant was, "It seems to me like it might be this way."

Last edited by juju; 11-24-2002 at 04:31 PM.
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Old 11-24-2002, 04:46 PM   #26
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Apparently, like Cam, juju doesn't consider chickens to be on the same level as other animals we enslave as pets.
Quote:
Posted by juju in the Bird Strike thread at the same time as the sympathetic post above:

That would be so sweet.

It would be all like, "BwgaaaAAwwk!! .... **THUMP***"

hehehehe
Interesting, that's the same attitude that makes cockfighting legal in OK. Some judge ruled that chickens aren't animals!

Gotta go now ... and make myself a chicken sandwich!

Last edited by Nic Name; 11-24-2002 at 04:48 PM.
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Old 11-24-2002, 04:53 PM   #27
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I never claimed to be an animal lover. :)
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Old 11-24-2002, 05:06 PM   #28
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Domestication is a darwinian plot

Quote:
It may not be news to dog owners, but now it can be said with scientific assurance: Centuries of selective breeding have created an animal that in some respects, at least, understands us even better than our closest primate cousins.

"It looks like there's been direct selection for dogs with the ability to read social cues in humans," said Brian Hare, a Harvard biological anthropologist who led the behavior study.

Scientists suspect that wolves hung around human hunter gatherers long before the first one was domesticated, perhaps in the hope of stealing scraps of food. Eventually, the theory goes, humans cajoled a few to help with hunting or guarding and began breeding those that proved to be the best companions.

Domestication, of course, is a matter of perspective. Some experts suspect that a few clever wolves initiated the process, recognizing that free food and a warm home beats living in the wild. But while scientists may never know the motivations behind domestication, they have doggedly pursued its timing and location.
Your dog has you all figured out
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Old 11-24-2002, 05:13 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by juju
I admit that I could be wrong!
I second that motion. You simply cannot understand until you own a pet yourself. While you're at the library, look up a book on dog behavior. Dogs are social animals; they require the attention and companionship of others. That's the result of thousands of years of their being pack animals.

Their social order and sense of well-being requires that every pack has a leader. That's just the way it works. They don't mind not being the leader, as long as there is a leader in their pack. In domesticated dogs, that "pack" is their human family, and they look up to their owner as their leader.


This is Aloysius. I never really knew what the expression "follow like a lost puppy" meant until we got him. He never goes anywhere unless my wife or I are there too. He won't even leave the room to go eat unless one of us is goes with him.

Does this mean his quality of life is any worse than if that leader were another dog? Let's see, he gets high-quality food three times a day (anyone who thinks pet food is "trash" should go see how much it costs, and what sort of quality control it has to go through). He gets almost constant affection from Elizabeth and me. He gets chew toys to help exercise his teeth, treats when he goes to the bathroom outside, medical care, and plenty of exercise. Seems pretty much like a win-win situation.

And as far as it being "slavery".. Al has gotten out from our fence before, but he didn't run away. He just stayed at the house, waiting for us to return. Just like Cam, who lived on a farm where the dog could have run away. How is that slavery?
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Old 11-24-2002, 05:39 PM   #30
dave
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I'm going to agree with juju that having pets is akin to slavery. My cats own my ass. Gotta get their food, change their litter, give them massages... I only wish I had it so good.
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