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-   -   QUESTIONS ABOUT THIS SITE (http://cellar.org/showthread.php?t=4657)

Nirvana 04-25-2012 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhianne (Post 808526)
And they have that the wrong way around. Things you say in public are often forgotten pretty quickly. What you post online is there for ever.

If you think about all the Presidents or presidential wanna bees, they probably wish that were true! ;)

zippyt 04-25-2012 06:09 PM

I havent seen the post in question , but i believe Terroristick threatening IS against the law , and Generally bad form

DanaC 04-25-2012 06:21 PM

It wasn't strictly speaking a 'threat'.

He didn't say: 'I'm going to blow away a gay pride parade'. In the context of a discussion on sexual immorality he said that: 'If I ever get to the point of going postal...what I'll do is go to some gay parade and blow em all away..'

BigV 04-25-2012 06:28 PM

Very bad form, indeed. Fucked up form. But not a crime.

monster 04-25-2012 07:22 PM

But what if the "if" is really a "when" in "if"'s clothing?......


;)


:dedhorse:

:stickpoke:

infinite monkey 04-25-2012 07:25 PM

Dana,hon, I always come off snarky, but you still my homegirl too.

I have a bit of a soft spot for jb. Don't know why.

I understand the feeling of being characterized in one form or another, and you are right. I did do that to you. I'm sorry. I respect you and your opinion. I like you, so maybe I feel safe arguing with you. Like family. :)

classicman 04-25-2012 09:24 PM

So don't give him a life sentence, give him a slap on the wrist ... say for a month?

I think that the combination of mental illness and the comment itself deserves concern.
The word "if" doesn't really make me feel any more comfortable.

Whatev. I'll deal with it either way. My peace/piece has been noted.

Flint 04-25-2012 11:05 PM

So you can't yell fire in a crowded theater, but you CAN threaten to kill people. As long as you include the word "if" in the statement. Bullshit.

I've never seen anything like this posted on the Cellar before. It isn't just offensive, it's criminal. YOU CAN'T THREATEN TO KILL PEOPLE. Not "in real life" and NOT here. For the love of jesus ƒuckin' christ on a pogo stick why is this even a debate???

classicman 04-25-2012 11:37 PM

ƒlint is ƒuckin ƒorcing me ƒurther to the ban side.

BigV 04-26-2012 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flint (Post 808593)
So you can't yell fire in a crowded theater, but you CAN threaten to kill people. As long as you include the word "if" in the statement. Bullshit.

I've never seen anything like this posted on the Cellar before. It isn't just offensive, it's criminal. YOU CAN'T THREATEN TO KILL PEOPLE. Not "in real life" and NOT here. For the love of jesus âuckin' christ on a pogo stick why is this even a debate???

If you truly believe this is criminal, what have you done about it? Have you called the police? Have you reported this to the authorities? Have you called the media, some investigative news reporter? Here is this "crime" you wail, and I want to know what you're doing about it, besides making a bunch of noise?

I patiently await your answer.

sexobon 04-26-2012 02:29 AM

Dark and lonely on the summer night.
Kill my landlord, kill my landlord.
Watchdog barking - Do he bite?
Kill my landlord, kill my landlord.
Slip in his window,
Break his neck!
Then his house
I start to wreck!
Got no reason --
What the heck!
Kill my landlord, kill my landlord.
C-I-L-L ...
My land - lord ...
Def!

Trilby 04-26-2012 05:09 AM

I was thinking of the movie The Fisher King. Maybe Flint is too.
you can't go around threatening shit like that. If jbk were admitted
to the psych unit and said that to intake there would be issues.

DanaC 04-26-2012 05:18 AM

There's also more here than what is legal/illegal, and what upsets a single individual.

This is about what we as a community deem acceptable conduct. As far as I am concerned, that kind of comment if allowed to go unchecked is dangerous to our community. We would not deem it acceptable if someone responded to a black (or whatever term is currently in use :p) dwellar by repeatedly calling that dwellar a nigger and making 'joke' threats about lynching niggers and burning crosses on their lawns.

Not because that might upset that individual dwellar, though that obviously would not be good, but also because if those words stand it signals that this is a community that accepts the worst kind of racism and bigotry and in doing so becomes an unwelcoming place to non-whites.

I believe, that by not sanctioning members who engage in the same kind of thing against LBGT/Queer dwellars we give much the same signal. It is no more censorship of free speech than is our desire not to be spammed or intolerably irritated as a community.

Griff 04-26-2012 05:49 AM

I was pretty sure I wanted to advocate having him banned after the threat (and it was a threat), but there is one thing about his psychological make-up that's holding me back. He needs for his own sense of religious superiority to not be accepted. He needs to feel silenced to feed his own disease. On the flip side, I don't want Sheldon Erica et al to feel at all unwelcome here. They are important members of the cellar who need to be listened to. Our community has always been an open place and I want it to stay that way. Maybe JB's family will have him committed soon... If push comes to shove I'd have to go with flint's position, it was a threat of violence and he should be banned for it.

Undertoad 04-26-2012 07:20 AM

Quote:

It isn't just offensive, it's criminal. YOU CAN'T THREATEN TO KILL PEOPLE.
THIS IS PROTECTED SPEECH:


infinite monkey 04-26-2012 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sexobon (Post 808606)
Dark and lonely on the summer night.
Kill my landlord, kill my landlord.
Watchdog barking - Do he bite?
Kill my landlord, kill my landlord.
Slip in his window,
Break his neck!
Then his house
I start to wreck!
Got no reason --
What the heck!
Kill my landlord, kill my landlord.
C-I-L-L ...
My land - lord ...
Def!

You my favorite! :lol:

BigV 04-26-2012 11:19 AM

Quote:

"Hahaha, ladies, I'm just playin' ladies, you know I love you."
People say the craziest shit, don't they?

I have said I don't believe there's been a crime committed here, I still believe that. But as Dana and others have said, there's another standard here, our community standard. It is clear that JBK's statement has violated that standard, despite the fact that that standard is subjective and not explicitly published anywhere. It is the standard that we dwellars carry inside ourselves each day. It's not static, it's not identical from one dwellar to another, but it is real.

I find his remark offensive. Others find his remark offensive. I have a problem with talk like that and so do many others. That problem needs solving, needs correction, needs addressing. Here in the cellar, we have very few explicit rules of conduct, and we have very few definite measures to enforce those rules. Though I find his remarks unacceptable, banning him for that remark is the wrong response to that problem. Banning is the wrong tool for this job.

Banning is our most severe response to misbehavior. Misbehavior is not a great term, it sounds much too mild, but I won't use other terms I know are incorrect like "criminal behavior". We have reserved banning for self protection of the cellar itself, for violation of our (few) rules, it is the capital punishment of our code. Since JBK's remarks and actions have not violated our written rules, he should not be subject to this consequence. He *has* violated other "rules" though, he should be subject to other consequences. We have other responses available to us. Most powerful and most effective is open communication among ourselves, including JBK (ironically the exact opposite of banning). It is good that this is happening.

There are other responses available too, like ignoring, formally via the ignore function and informally by just not responding. We do this all the time too, we've got a phrase for it "don't feed the troll" (though JBK isn't trolling in my opinion). This is very effective and may well be in place for individual dwellars. This kind of shunning has the advantages of being very fine grained for the cellar as a whole and for individuals. Some can do it and others can refrain, one can do it sometimes and sometimes not. It's reusable, it's discreet and discrete.

Mocking and shunning are group responses like discussion and ignoring and they can also be effective. I see some of both of these happening here. All these other responses, short of banning are better tools for this problem. I like discussion (no surprise there). And I would like to continue the discussion. What has JBK done? What should be our response? What should JBK's response be? Some things are already established--his remark(s) are offensive and his remarks are not criminal. What now?

infinite monkey 04-26-2012 11:24 AM

Quote:

What now? I'll tell you what now. I'm gonna call a couple of hard-pipe hittin' n*ggas to go to work on the homes here with a pair of pliers and a blow-torch. You hear me talkin', hillbilly boy?! I ain't through with you by a damn sight! I'ma get medieval on your ass!

infinite monkey 04-26-2012 11:25 AM

'Shunning' makes me giggle. Maybe JBK will learn something during Rumspringa. ;)

BigV 04-26-2012 11:31 AM

... Stacy Adams...

infinite monkey 04-26-2012 11:32 AM

Um. A shoe company?

BigV 04-26-2012 11:38 AM

Awww... you don't remember his proud reply to the compliments made about his shoes?

infinite monkey 04-26-2012 11:41 AM

I'm sorry. Marcellus?

Thought I had the movie rememberized.

Undertoad 04-26-2012 11:47 AM

Right Bigs.

I would add that there's nothing inherent about the Cellar that suggests one or all will be protected from offensive speech.

I am offended by JB's statements. I'm a little less offended that the immediate response was to call to remove him on the basis that his point of view was offensive, or even, did not respect our particular group-think. The guy is self-contained here. He is easily disregarded. It's not like he's even participating all over the place; he's mostly in his own shitty threads. And everyone kinda knows his deal.

In the tavern analogy, he's like a half-crazy guy ranting at his own table. He's not actually hurting anyone and he's not disrupting the other tables. It's not like he's gonna recruit sensible people to his point of view. Maybe the better question is whether we are therapeutic. I don't know.

classicman 04-26-2012 03:11 PM

Quote:

...our community standard. It is clear that JBK's statement has violated that standard,
Yup
Quote:

I find his remark offensive. Others find his remark offensive. ~~Though I find his remarks unacceptable, banning him for that remark is the wrong response to that problem.
Nope. I think the temporary ban has worked well. I think a "time-out" in this case is absolutely acceptable and probably the only real option... say for a month.

toranokaze 04-26-2012 03:56 PM

I find JB's remarks offensive in every way possible and gives a bad name to both country and faith.

I have seen the ban hammer drop for less. However, this is one very offense and feels very off the cuff remark.

His words and actions need to have consequences.

A temp ban is in order( to agreeing with the group shutter). Perhaps he will learn from this and we can help him from this dark place, for I would rather see his comments quench and condemned rather and being ignore and allowed to fester.

he needs real help I hope he finds it.

Gravdigr 04-27-2012 01:58 PM

I have a suggestion:

A lot of Dwellars want JB banned, permanently or temporarily. JB appeared (I think) at one point or another seemed to somewhat show remorse for some of the things he has said.

How about we satisfy the Dwellars (somewhat), while at the same time allowing JB to 'face the music', so-to-speak:

A voluntary, self-imposed temporary ban of 15-30 days.

What do ya think?



ETA: Just thinkin' aloud, mind you...

infinite monkey 04-27-2012 02:04 PM

Ask me again next week, please.

:dedhorse:

DanaC 04-27-2012 03:40 PM

I think the moment has very much passed for any action of that nature. Best to let it lie now and hope that he refrains in future.

BigV 04-27-2012 04:00 PM

1 Attachment(s)
I have a question about this site.

Why did this happen?

Attachment 38500

I repeated the same steps (in the humor thread) with a different image in the post following and it displayed as an image, as expected. I then made a third post using the original image and it also displayed as an image, as expected. But that first one shows up like this image (probably still there like that). Why I wonder.

Rhianne 04-27-2012 04:28 PM

1 Attachment(s)
'

classicman 04-27-2012 05:20 PM

Perhaps one was hotlinked and the other uploaded.

BigV 04-27-2012 05:23 PM

Rhianne, thanks, but that's not it. Your offer has to do with displaying images for a given user. I don't have that setting configured to not show images, in fact, I see the images in the two subsequent posts.

classicman, no, both were uploaded from my machine. If you quote each message, you'll see they all show the same layout with different attachment numbers naturally.

Thanks for the suggestions, but it's still a puzzle.

sexobon 04-29-2012 05:38 PM

Wouldn't it be ironic if JBKlyde was banned right at a user post count of 666?

(like you hadn't thought about it ... wink wink, nudge nudge, say no more)

DanaC 04-29-2012 06:01 PM

hahahahahaha I hadnt.

classicman 04-29-2012 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sexobon (Post 809333)
Wouldn't it be wonderfully ironic if JBKlyde was banned right at a user post count of 666?

ftfy

ZenGum 04-30-2012 12:52 AM

Norton security has decided that cellar.org/index is a suspicious site and bails me out. cellar.org is okay, for now.

Is anyone else getting this?

monster 04-30-2012 07:15 AM

try cellar.orgy

BigV 04-30-2012 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZenGum (Post 809375)
Norton security has decided that cellar.org/index is a suspicious site and bails me out. cellar.org is okay, for now.

Is anyone else getting this?

I can't find that page at all. Can you give more detail about the page you can't reach? Any other info for the URL?

glatt 04-30-2012 08:22 AM

What happens when you click on the monkey banner, BigV?

infinite monkey 04-30-2012 08:59 AM

Don't do it! It's a trap! :D

BigV 04-30-2012 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glatt (Post 809401)
What happens when you click on the monkey banner, BigV?

I am taken to "http://cellar.org/index.php". It was the ".php" that was missing from ZenGum's clue. That link works fine. And, it does not trigger my security software.

BigV 04-30-2012 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by infinite monkey (Post 809408)
Don't do it! It's a trap! :D

hahaha... u r teh lol.

I already did. (uh oh) But I'd done so after seeing glatt's question but before I'd seen yours. I'm in trouble now, right?

monster 04-30-2012 09:01 AM

uh-oh tw might be in danger of losing his pedant crown........

infinite monkey 04-30-2012 09:01 AM

Great. Now the world will explode in 10, 9, 8...

TheMercenary 04-30-2012 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ibram (Post 808040)
Even if i still do have my problems with merc, so much THIS. without understanding what's so unbelievably poisonous about what he said, there can certainly be no constructive progression.

Even if to Dana this is about his attacks on me and my identity, shit, i couldn't care less about him telling me i'm gonna burn in hell. It's threats of literal violence and hate crimes where I draw the ban-line in this case.

I never said you were going to "burn in hell" or made literal violent statements towards you.

TheMercenary 04-30-2012 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigV (Post 808037)
We have many set pieces of serious conflict. Even mercy earned place in Ibram's signature for the vitriol of his comments made about the same subject, only more personal. There was no call for a ban then, why?

Your memory is short. There many a call for a "Ban".

classicman 04-30-2012 08:55 PM

Hey just what we needed - to dig this shit up again. :cheerldr:

monster 04-30-2012 10:54 PM

What about when you wanted me banned? oh wait, that's ongoing..... :lol:

Aliantha 04-30-2012 10:58 PM

I think you should all be banned.

That's right. Banned!

Then I can have this whole place to myself. Imagine the interesting convo's you'd get to read then!

Ibby 05-01-2012 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMercenary (Post 809550)
I never said you were going to "burn in hell" or made literal violent statements towards you.

You're right. Which is why I agreed with Dana that understanding is the key to the difference between your bigotry and JBK's bigotry. Because JBK did make literal violent statements, and doesn't understand what's wrong with that.
It's not always alllll about YOU, mercy dearest.

Gravdigr 06-11-2012 05:41 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Yeahyeahyeah, fuck all that shit.
____________________________________________________

Attachment 39036

Someone please tell me that the three little stripes that are now appearing in the bottom right corner of the text boxes (red arrow in the pic) have nothing to do with Firefox 12.

Please tell me that the fact I noticed them today is purely coincidence. Please.

BigV 06-11-2012 05:43 PM

coincidence

been there all along, though in my display it is a triangle of six dots

Gravdigr 06-11-2012 05:49 PM

It has not been on my puter all along. I just updated to FF12 (from FF3.what.ever.the.fuck.dot) today, and there they are.

I think Firefox has jumped the shark. It now sucks about as bad as Explorer, I deny Chrome even exists. I have enough ppl looking over my shoulder. Looks like it's back to Opera.

Gravdigr 06-11-2012 06:02 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Attachment 39038

Gravdigr 06-11-2012 06:04 PM

Change for the sake of change.

Fuck the world.

Gravdigr 06-11-2012 06:05 PM

No, I retract that last statement.


Fuck me.

Undertoad 06-11-2012 06:54 PM

Expand your textarea. Chrome has had it for a year now, and by the way, it's awesome.

classicman 06-11-2012 09:37 PM

All they do Grav is make the text box larger for when you post those 500 word essays on 85% of the worlds problems, mental midgets and bean counters.

xoxoxoBruce 06-12-2012 02:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undertoad (Post 814841)
Expand your textarea.

How?


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