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infinite monkey 10-01-2012 08:25 AM

It's exciting. Post a picture.

glatt 10-01-2012 08:38 AM


Originally Posted by monster (Post 832457)
I are afraid.

We bought ours on Saturday morning, and since we had taken it overnight on Friday for our mechanic to check out, we had to drive to the dealer in separate cars. It was almost an hour's drive, and as I got closer and closer to the dealership, I started feeling sicker and sicker. Alone with my thoughts in this car we were planning to buy, my mind was going to dark places. Is the car a lemon? How will the negotiations go? Can we really afford this? I hate car shopping. :thepain:

But last night, I was reading through the owner's manual, and discovering all this little neat things the car does that I hadn't realized when we looked at it. Nothing major, but things like I didn't realize the clock would also display the outside temperature if you pushed the little button next to it. Things like that. So I'm starting to feel good about it.

limey 10-01-2012 03:33 PM

Many thanks for the kind thoughts expressed - Mr Limey has a touch of pneumonia and will be kept in hospital for the next day or two on IV antibiotics, nebulisers and all the delights that the NHS can provide. I'm feeling better - I hope he will be, too, soon!

glatt 10-01-2012 03:35 PM

I'm glad they are taking care of him, Limey!

limey 10-01-2012 03:38 PM

Me too! And I'm glad the new car thang is turning out OK. It's nice when you discover the good-but-hitherto-unknown-little-things in your new one, innit!

glatt 10-01-2012 03:54 PM

If he's spending another night in the hospital, does that mean you have the house to youself? You can crank the stereo and dance around in your underwear like Tom Cruise in Risky Business.

monster 10-01-2012 05:17 PM


Originally Posted by glatt (Post 832461)
as I got closer and closer to the dealership, I started feeling sicker and sicker. Alone with my thoughts in this car we were planning to buy, my mind was going to dark places. Is the car a lemon? How will the negotiations go? Can we really afford this? I hate car shopping. :thepain:


Plus I was driving my partner of 12 years to his slaughter.... I almost started :cry: ...but made it through and now have a shiny red tank parked in my driveway.

Jim begged me not to name him (thanks for all your help, Jim), so of course I did, even though it's not my norm. Cars that get named generally aquire that name years down the road due to some event or characteristic they are revealed to have. So feel free to guess away......

(oop, thread hijack I give a fuck :D: ) Tell ya what, I'll post a pic in the new car thead and we can move the guessing game to there, should anyone feel like participating.

orthodoc 10-01-2012 05:34 PM

Glad to hear Mr. Limey's doing better! Take care of yourself as well, now! :)

limey 10-05-2012 04:09 AM


Originally Posted by glatt (Post 832552)
If he's spending another night in the hospital, does that mean you have the house to youself? You can crank the stereo and dance around in your underwear like Tom Cruise in Risky Business.

You think I'd let my husband miss out on that?!? :D

Originally Posted by orthodoc (Post 832562)
Glad to hear Mr. Limey's doing better! Take care of yourself as well, now! :)

I will, thank you! :)

orthodoc 10-17-2012 04:04 PM

First chemo is tomorrow. I'm still healing from the second skin graft but they don't want to delay any longer, so here goes. I just get to be extra OCD about sterilizing everything.

Got my groceries stocked up, got my remedies and green tea, got my comedy CDs and panda t-shirt and grizzly bear baseball cap. I decided to let myself be just a teeny bit nervous about this - magical thinking - because I went into surgery figuring it'd be straightforward and yikes ... so if I'm a little nervous, maybe that anaphylactic reaction won't happen tomorrow ... :rolleyes:

BigV 10-17-2012 04:14 PM

nervous sounds reasonable, courageous.

you remember courage? action in the face of justified fear? You have it.

Trilby 10-17-2012 04:14 PM

nah, no anaphylactic reaction- they give you IV steroids. The stuff they gave me was a deep purpley-red. Reminded me of pomegrenat seeds. What are you getting? Taxotere and ACT was what I got. In that order. it's usually the other way around.

got any ativan? ambien? I'd advise you treat yourself to one of them along with your jammies, etc. How many doses are you getting? are you getting them in the hosp. or the onco's office?

orthodoc 10-17-2012 04:23 PM

Yeah, I've got the steroids today and for the next three days ... still a chance, but much less. It's the Taxotere that's problematic. That's what I mean - it's a small chance, so a little magical thinking should take care of it, rather than being all confident like I was in September. ;)

I've got some Ativan - I'll bring it along just in case. I'm getting six cycles, TC - taxotere and cyclophosphamide. No adriamycin (the A in ACT). Our hospital has an infusion center, so it's half and half - a bit more intensive than an office but not admitted to hospital.

orthodoc 10-17-2012 04:32 PM


Originally Posted by BigV (Post 834685)
nervous sounds reasonable, courageous.

you remember courage? action in the face of justified fear? You have it.

Scared to death but saddling up anyway ... hoping I don't fall off the other side :rolleyes: ... thank you

Trilby 10-17-2012 04:34 PM

IF you can keep us up to date with how you're doing. You might be too tired.
Sleep, ask people for favors and best wishes for tomorrow, sweetie.

orthodoc 10-17-2012 05:00 PM

Thanks. I can do this, with a little help from my friends. :)

limey 10-18-2012 02:53 PM

Sending a big pile of help for the next step.
You already have the Lucky Hat :thumbup:
Sent by thought transference.

glatt 10-18-2012 03:05 PM

Hope your day is going well, orthodoc. Good luck.

xoxoxoBruce 10-18-2012 03:25 PM

Anxiously awaited the good news. It will be good, you'll tell us your trepidation was for naught. :D

BigV 10-18-2012 03:36 PM

dude, you're treppin'

orthodoc 10-18-2012 06:23 PM

Thanks, guys. It went well today - no anaphylaxis, hooray! Some side effects but not too bad. I'm so tired tonight - shouldn't be tired this soon, but it is what it is. Maybe letdown of stress. Thanks so much for all your good wishes, and the many kindnesses. The first is over and I'll see through the next week how things go, and that will tell the tale for the rest. So far, so good. :)

footfootfoot 10-18-2012 07:53 PM

Our family motto is, "When the going gets tough, the tough get napping."

Sleep is awesome!

BigV 10-18-2012 10:09 PM


Originally Posted by footfootfoot (Post 834851)
Our family motto is, "When the going gets tough, the tough get napping."

Sleep is awesome!

Sleep is awesome. Plus it prevents diabetes. Kinda.

Sleep deprivation caused a 30% decline in the insulin sensitivity of fat cells of healthy, lean young adults, according to a study in the Oct. 6 issue of Annals of Internal Medicine.

Restricting sleep for 4 nights markedly impaired the phosphorylation of Akt within the adipocytes in subcutaneous fat, which is a crucial early step in the pathway that mediates most of insulin's metabolic action. "This finding identifies for the first time a molecular mechanism that may be involved in the reduction in total-body insulin sensitivity consistently observed in multiple laboratory studies of partial sleep deprivation in healthy adults," said Josiane L. Broussard, Ph.D., and her associates at the University of Chicago.


Insufficient sleep is known to raise the risk of metabolic disturbances, particularly insulin resistance, obesity, and type 2 diabetes. But "to our knowledge, no studies to date have linked sleep restriction to alterations in molecular metabolic pathways in any peripheral human tissue." Dr. Broussard and her colleagues examined whether experimental sleep restriction would reduce insulin sensitivity in subcutaneous fat, "a peripheral tissue that is a key site of insulin action and plays a pivotal role in energy metabolism as well as in the communication of energy balance to the brain."

Six men and one woman aged 18-30 years (mean age 23.7 years) who were healthy and lean were selected from the community as study subjects. All reported routine sleep times of 7.5-8.5 hours/night. All underwent overnight polysomnography to ensure they had no sleep disorders, standard glucose tolerance testing to rule out any occult disorders of insulin metabolism, and standard laboratory tests to rule out any other problem that could affect either sleep or metabolism.

These subjects were then assessed under two experimental sleep conditions in randomized order: after 4 consecutive nights of 8.5 hours of normal sleep and after 4 consecutive nights of 4.5 hours of restricted sleep. The subjects lived as sedentary inpatients during these experiments, with strictly controlled diets that were identical under the two sleep conditions.

Trilby 10-19-2012 05:57 AM

I'm so glad things went well for you, ortho!

I think of you every day and hope you are feeling okay and getting enough rest.

And soup! Soup is good for an upset system and it sootheth the soul-eth. :flower:

orthodoc 10-19-2012 07:14 AM

Thanks, Tril! Rest is a definite problem; haven't slept well, i.e. more than 90 min at a time with 2-hour breaks between, since Aug. I get lots of reading done, though! The anti-emetics they have now are amazing. Sitting here in the infusion center waiting to get my Neulasta shot so I'll see if I'm in the 30% who get nasty bone pain with it. Thinking positive thoughts. :)

Trilby 10-19-2012 07:24 AM

You know - I got the nasty bone pain but my onco told me it was the Taxotere and NOT the Neulasta that did it --- !!! I wish these people would get their shit straight.

Honey, not to frighten you, but I DID have significant bone pain - a kind of gnawing continuous pain. It wasn't that the pain in and of itself was unbearable - it was - it was just that it never let up. I would soak in the hottest tub water I could so my legs would stop aching for 20 min. and I'd try to get to sleep before the hot water effects stopped. Get the percocet. I suffered unneccessairily for three days before I gave up and went to the ED for IV dilaudid which didn't even get me high but just, mercifully, relieved the pain. Don't suffer. If you are opiate naive you might be ok with vicodin or even vic 7.5 - I am highly tolerant to opiates and I needed percocets. don't suffer. it's not worth it.

Trilby 10-19-2012 07:28 AM


Originally Posted by orthodoc (Post 834888)
The anti-emetics they have now are amazing. :)

Are you getting that amazingly expensive anti-emetic - i forget what it's called, but it's like 300.00 PER PILL? I got a voucher for that and got three free ones but didn't need them. A friend of mine with breast cancer DID get super nauseous on her regime (which was different from mine) and they did her some good. Kept her out of the hospital for IV fluids, anyway.

My taste went about two weeks after chemo. Even water tasted funny. Try lemon drops candies to help counteract that tin-like taste.


orthodoc 10-19-2012 10:23 AM

Double checking the Taxotere info - it does cause bone pain too. Maybe there's a synergistic effect with Neulasta, who knows? At least an additive effect. I do have some pain meds in case of need. Both the nausea (as the anti-emetics wear off - they gave me stuff that lasts 48 hours) and the bone pain will show up in the next couple of days. Fun weekend coming up! I haven't had taste changes yet - if it takes 2 weeks that explains it - but have no appetite. I got two IV anti-emetics, one of which is very expensive, but only Phenergan to take home. I don't like neuroleptics for nausea, personally. I've seen enough acute dystonic & other reactions with them to like them for routine use.

I think my team, and it sounds like your team, could do better in explaining time of onset of expected/common side effects. I have the impression my onco doesn't want to 'put ideas in my head' and have me anticipate the worst. I disagree. I think that, if people know what may commonly happen, they're much less upset and anxious when it happens, and they get needed care promptly instead of trying to tough it out and ending up in hospital. And if bad things don't happen it's a bonus!

footfootfoot 10-19-2012 10:58 AM

Is Scopolamine effective against nausea?

I'm sorry to even hear about the possibility of nausea for you.


orthodoc 10-19-2012 12:28 PM

Scopolamine is helpful in people who get significant motion sickness/sea sickness. I don't get either, so it's not particularly helpful for me. Plus it gives you dry mouth, blurry vision - anticholinergic effects, as that's the way it works.

Thanks ... hopefully it won't be a big problem. I'm told that the way I react to this first treatment over the next three weeks (until the next one) will be my pattern for the rest. So I'm waiting and hoping for the best. :)

limey 10-19-2012 12:36 PM

Hope things are going well for you!

Sent by thought transference.

Trilby 10-19-2012 12:54 PM

Re: them not telling you about stuff so they won't "put ideas in your head" - YES!

they acted like they'd never HEARD of taxotere causing bone pain! They never HEARD of a cancer patient needing more than tylenol! After my first (male) onco told me to "man up" I fired his Syrian ass and got a female onco. She was MUCH nicer and sympathetic but still, after about four taxotere treatments when the tumor was BIGGER instead of smaller and I COULD TELL IT WAS she and the nurse were all like, "oh, no, no, it's just that different doctor's measure things differently," YEAH. RIGHT. But, see, I was so dependent upon them for meds and treatment I let them LIE TO MY FACE. Plus, they never said, by the by, you'll go right into menopause, too!

Really - whole thing pissed me off. I drank vodka straight thru my cancer and guess what? Out of my clinical sample, I"m the only one who ended up with a complete negative post surgery. HA! I think the booze dried me out and made the medicine work more effectively. BUT DON"T TRY IT YOURSELF! You'll only regret the hell out of it.

I'm a professional drinker. ;)

orthodoc 10-19-2012 01:55 PM

Not to tell you that you'd go right into menopause - that's bad. And the other stuff, really bad. I don't know what these people are thinking. I still think that giving people an outline of what to expect is crucial. My line of work isn't oncology but it involves helping people through injuries and exposures of various types. Telling someone what to expect is central, and I find people do better (no surprise - information is golden) when they understand the usual course, what's common, what's uncommon but may happen, and what's an emergency. Then, too, if things go better than anticipated (it happens), people are extremely happy because they understood the whole process.

I was given a booklet with a calendar and a couple pages listing side effects. There are columns giving an idea of when a side effect becomes an emergency, but nothing about timing and the onco didn't go over it. Maybe it's because I'm a medical person, but I have no practical experience with chemo. I can read articles but I don't know the practical details of timing and little tips that help.

And yes, I also feel constrained and dependent on this team. Overall I'm okay with them so far, but I don't really have other choices due to insurance and job requirements. I get frustrated when I read books by obviously extremely well to do people who insist that everyone should flit around the country visiting the top 5 cancer institutes before deciding on care. That's not reality.

Trilby 10-19-2012 03:27 PM

right. fuck those ladies who did cardio along with getting their chemo. FUCK them! With their eyelashes and eyebrows intact while, strangely, they are bald on top.

my hair loss started two weeks after the first chemo and was dramatic and emotional...I lost ALL of it - eyelashes, eyebrows, arms, lets, all of it. I recommend you get a friend to help and a wig. or if you have a really good shaped head (I don't) a killer scarf will do it. try TLC magazine for cancer stuff. They've got big scarves that will do the job that a bandana won't. Your onco should have a TLC mag in the office.

orthodoc 10-19-2012 03:59 PM

I've been warned that ALL of my hair will go - all of it, as you say. I did get a referral to a guy who does wigs for medical hair loss and he's great. I've arranged for a wig to at least wear in clinic, assuming I can continue to see patients, and I did get some cotton caps and some scarves to try. I'll probably wear them more, but I thought it'd put patients off for me to show up wearing a scarf and obviously bald underneath. Who knows, I may not even need that wig if I'm too tired to work clinic.

I'm going to get my head shaved next week rather than wait for my hair to fall out. I don't think I can cope with the emotional trauma of finding it all over the place, and I definitely can't work clinic with hair just falling out. I was told it comes out over several days, in big clumps. So I'll wait until just before it should start and then be proactive. The eyebrows and eyelashes will be the worst to cope with, I know. That's going to really bum me out.

And the gym? Nope, not going to the virus palace. I'm already nervous enough walking around in public buildings and in the hospital especially, going into my neutropenic week. Going through hand sanitizer by the bottle. Probably going to wear gloves next week, and a mask. It's more to keep me from touching my face; it won't stop small droplets that are floating around in the air. But hand-to-face inoculation is by far the most frequent means of picking up germs.

BigV 10-19-2012 04:10 PM

virus palace. berry berry funny.

clearly your sense of humor has yet to fall out.

Please keep in touch orthodoc. We're all pulling for you.

Trilby 10-19-2012 05:34 PM

honey, if a scarf feels good, do itl

i looked like a baked potato without hair. i got a cheap wig (150.00} and I was always very weird about it. they DID say I had a big head, though. That was part of the problem! A fat head!!

BigV 10-19-2012 05:56 PM

you say that like it's a bad thing. I, like most guys, *like* a lot of head.

footfootfoot 10-19-2012 06:16 PM

Orhto, get some Mala beads and a saffron robe. Rock the chrome dome!

Undertoad 10-19-2012 06:51 PM

Although there is nothing wrong with a little head either.

hey don't forget the nether hairs, they're gonna fall out too, if yer gonna shave the drapes ya gotta shave the carpet

orthodoc 10-19-2012 07:00 PM

Now there's an idea, rock the chrome dome! If I were Persis Khambatta, I would. We'll see. Guess we'll also see if it's a lot or a little head. :p:

And yeah, the drapes, the carpet, it's all gonna go. The big upset is the eyebrows and eyelashes. I can pencil eyebrows in but ... they're penciled. Nothing to be done about eyelashes. I don't think I'll be posting pics on the you rfn thread for awhile. Although, you never know. If I get silly from the steroids, you never know. :rolleyes:

Still waiting for things (the unpleasant weekend is starting early) to calm down enough for me to write an online quiz on SAS programming. I have until midnight, hooray! I'd ask for an extension but have a sneaking suspicion tomorrow will NOT be better. On with the show ...

Griff 10-20-2012 08:52 AM

The chrome looks pretty sweet on some ladies. I feel like the scarves always look nice as well. A splash of color is always helpful for keeping the mood up. Rock on!

footfootfoot 10-20-2012 12:32 PM

You could take a page from this woman's book, and create a whole range of head-dressings. I could see a really cool lizard diorama, get some plastic or rubber creatures and glue them to your head in fighting poses, or you could get some dinosaurs and make a whole prehistoric tableau with volcanoes and such. You cold even do holiday themes: with stage make-up or face paint you could color your entire head orange, black triangles around your eyes, nose, and a jaggy black mouth. Then just attach some sort of stem to your head, et voila!

I'm just getting started. How long until your hair grows back?

orthodoc 10-20-2012 01:08 PM

:lol: I'm thinking of walking into clinic with a lizard diorama on my head. Too funny! Patients would either love it or run screaming from the room.

I loved the video. And I'm thinking ahead, looking at embracing the experience of being hairless. How much easier it'll be to get ready to go out; how much choice I'll have in color and style of scarf; no hair salon bills (okay, I bought a wig so that's sort of advance salon $, but not a year's worth). No shaving or waxing. Sort of cool. I'm willing to roll with it. Getting playful with the stage makeup is another whole dimension!

Of course, this assumes enough energy to get playful. Last night showed me just a little of the downside. Much better today. For the next 3 weeks it's new territory since everyone reacts differently. I hope for the best, 'cause it'd be great to have some fun with this. ;)

Length of time without hair? It starts growing back within 2-3 months of finishing treatment, they tell me. My hair grows slowly. I think I'm looking at a year before I'll have enough hair for a short style. Time for all the holiday seasons. :rolleyes:

footfootfoot 10-20-2012 01:44 PM

A little guy with a lawnmower

orthodoc 10-20-2012 01:54 PM

:lol2: Perfect for next summer. Might need a little hammock with a cooler beside it, too, for when he's done ...

footfootfoot 10-20-2012 06:32 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Model Railroad Figures: The possibilities are endless.

ZenGum 10-20-2012 07:25 PM

Get your scalp painted to look like a brain.

ETA With a few computer chip implants.

orthodoc 10-20-2012 08:16 PM

Endless possibilities ... NSFW, but endless. :p:

xoxoxoBruce 10-22-2012 05:12 PM


Originally Posted by orthodoc (Post 834983)
My line of work isn't oncology but it involves helping people through injuries and exposures of various types.

Oh really, then I could use your help.
I was exposing myself down at the playground the other day, and some old biddy whacked me with her umbrella. ;)

footfootfoot 10-22-2012 07:38 PM

injuries AND exposures, not injuries FROM exposures.

glatt 10-27-2012 06:22 AM

hey orthodoc, how are you doing?

Trilby 10-27-2012 07:02 AM

you all are hilarious. I never thought of doing a diorama thing.

I saw one woman who painted her head with really cool, psychedelic shapes and colors-that was neat. and wear really killer earrings with your scarves. Makes you look ethnic and scary at the same time. :)

Trilby 10-27-2012 07:03 AM

did I ever tell you what Cherry told me to do after I lost all my hair? she said to go down to the drugstore where the sell shampoo, whip off my scarf/wig with shampoo bottle in hand and announce loudly, "LOOK WHAT THIS PRODUCT DID TO MY HAIR!"

I thought that would be pretty funny. :)

orthodoc 10-27-2012 08:16 AM

It's been pretty much a Dorothy Parker week (what fresh hell is this?). Every day something new and amusing.

But - last weekend was the 7th hell or lower. This weekend I've clambered up to the 3rd or so, I think. Making progress. Given the past week, losing my hair in the next few days won't even show up on the radar. 'Bald this morning? Does it hurt? Does it make me throw up? No? Easiest part of my day.'

One day at a time, hour by hour, I am moving forward through this. When you're going through hell, keep going, and all that.

And - the diorama idea is toast as far as work is concerned. :rolleyes: The hospital just put new policies on dress and behavior in place that will keep any creative self-expression well hidden. But that's what the wig was always for, anyway. I can always have fun on weekends. :)

Clodfobble 10-27-2012 08:40 AM

You should let your patients sign your head, under the wig where administrators can't see.

orthodoc 10-27-2012 08:49 AM

If I didn't think someone'd rat me out, I'd do it. :lol:
Now, if I saw kids in my practice ... I could totally have fun with it. Might even get it past the administration. A Robin Williams sort of thing.

One thing I might do, if I feel up to it ... I have a friend in PA who's been growing his hair for a year and a half in order to go down to Children's Hospital in Pittsburgh and let the kids on the oncology inpatient unit shave his head - he's going to donate the hair to Locks of Love. Very cool project. Maybe I should go along, be the 'Vanna White' girl who calls the kids up and gives them a turn shaving ... and at the end, whip off MY wig and let them sign my scalp in nontoxic marker. Could be fun.

One thing about the Children's Hospital in Pittsburgh. They just built a new one, a beautiful building, but the architects made an extreme planning goof. They put beautiful big windows in the oncology ward, and the windows overlook ... a huge cemetery.

So they've replaced the clear glass with colored glass murals to block out the cemetery view. Nice.

Big Sarge 10-27-2012 09:09 AM

Have you thought about a tinfoil hat?? Besides covering your head, it helps block the alien transmissions. I sleep in mine everyday

orthodoc 10-27-2012 10:30 AM

Tinfoil ... let's see, I could work up an outfit to complement that ;)
But I think it'd be crinkly to sleep on ... besides, the alien transmissions come in better at night.

xoxoxoBruce 10-27-2012 07:51 PM

Jim's got some blond braids that might be available in a few days.
Oh and when you get to hell level 2, don't forget to check out the sale on ladies unmentionables and sundries. :haha:

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