Isolationism
Bush offered the nation a modest menu of energy, health and education proposals and warned against the "false comfort of isolationism" in a State of the Union address on Tuesday.
Isolationism
Wednesday 04 January 2005
The American Congress has voted in the most restrictive anti-immigration law of recent decades. The text provides for the erection of walls along certain parts of the border. Five sections of wall from the Gulf of Mexico to the Pacific Ocean along the Border States: California, Arizona, New Mexico and Texas. Totaling 1,000 kilometers [621 miles] - a third of the border - this wall, 4.5 meters [almost fifteen feet] high, is supposed to be lit by watchtowers and swept by cameras.Commentators compare these concrete blocks to the Berlin Wall or the Wall recently built in the Palestinian territories.
Mexico
What do you think about the proposed wall separating Mexico and the States?
What do you think about the Berlin wall?
What do you think about wall separating the Palestinians from Israel?
What do you think about Bush’s bullshit about "false comfort of isolationism"?
What do you think of the fact that Canadians can tip-toe across the States border at will, and easily impersonate Americans by wearing jeans which show the top of our ass crack when we bend over?
I missed the address. I would have enjoyed bush giving us his unique interpretation when he attempted to say the word
isolationism.Mexican Wall = Bad
Berlin Wall = Bad
Israel Wall = Good
I didn't watch the speech. Life is too short to spend watching stuff like that. I updated the contents of my iPod instead, and bought a set of earphones off e-bay.
Walls are not neighborly or friendly. I would prefer a world where walls were not needed. A wall to keep people in against their will (like the Berlin wall) is far worse than a wall to keep people out (like the Israeli wall and the US southern border wall.) I think I understand the rational for both the US and Israeli walls, but don't care for either.
Thoughtful posts, ty.
Love to hear from anybody who heard how he handled the word, “isolationism”.
I think I understand the rational for both the US and Israeli walls, but don't care for either.
A classic example of those who think using a head between their legs verses those who use a head between their shoulders. Ask yourself why those walls exist? Would it not be smarter to eliminate reasons for those walls? History demonstrates walls - ie demilitarized zone between North and South Vietnam - do not work. With divisions of troops, electronic surveillence, air attacks, etc - still that wall did not work.
Those who think with a head between their legs never bother to look beyond what they see AND never ask why. It is the difference between a strategic thinker verses one who follows propaganda. Remember, there was no bombings, terrorism, and a need for that wall in Israel before 2000. What changed?
How many walls were failures. The 30 foot wall between Egypt and Israel never stopped anything. The Great Wall of China was a proven failure - but they kept building it anyway. The wall between Syria and Iraq does nothing even though militaries on both sides reinforce that wall. US Mexican border wall is based upon same knee jerk thinking. Notice how those who advocate the wall never bother to first learn why problems exists. The difference between a leader with intelligence verses a blind follower of Rush Limbaugh. Rush Limbaugh followers only know what they see - nothing more. They routinely and repeatedly don't ask why - such as the question I ask here. Those who bother to learn that which makes intelligence, then, would ask why that wall is suddenly necessary.
I have posted reasons why, often and previously. So you tell me. Why is each wall necessary?
I never said that I supported building any of the walls in the example. I was simply saying that I understand the desire to build the the Mexico and Palestine walls.
To answer your question, the reasons for walls are pretty simple. It's to keep undesirable people out.
Of course, you already knew that. You want me to defend these walls as the best way to prevent terrorism in Israel and prevent illegal immigrants from flooding into the US. I'm not convinced they are the best way, so I won't be arguing that point with you.
To answer your question, the reasons for walls are pretty simple. It's to keep undesirable people out.
Good. Why are those people undesireable and why must they be kept out? You still have not answered the question.
Of course, you already knew that.
Of course I did not know that ... since I posted example after example where walls failed to address a problem when leaders used 'sound byte' reasoning. But show me. Show me the problem solved by a US Mexico wall (or did you forget lessons in the movie 'Traffic'?). Show me why an Israeli West Bank wall solves what creates that problem? To advocate walls, one must first explain why the problem exists. What is this 'simple' reason that suddenly makes walls necessary. To keep undersireable people out does not even begin to say why the problem exists or what the problem really is. Why are these people undesireable?
Good. Why are those people undesireable and why must they be kept out? You still have not answered the question.
Why do people want to ban gay marriage? Because they are uncomfortable with gays. But banning gay marriage won't solve their problem. Just because A is a reason for B doesn't mean that B will help A. In this case, the wall is a symptom of the problem, not a solution.
In this case, the wall is a symptom of the problem, not a solution.
Fine. But still - what is the problem? In another thread, Democrats are accurately defines as (essentially) bankrupt of good ideas. Here is but another example of a Democratic Party avoiding what should be a national question - not just a Cellar question. What is the problem that has created this 'knee-jerk need' for walls?
snip~ You want me to defend these walls as the best way to prevent terrorism in Israel and prevent illegal immigrants from flooding into the US. I'm not convinced they are the best way, so I won't be arguing that point with you.
Nope, the wall in Israel is to keep the Jews in one place so we can kill off 13 million to force the second coming. Don't you know anything? :lol:
What are you getting at, tw?
You know why Israel wants to keep the Palestinians out. It's because a small subset of their numbers are trying to blow the Israelis up.
You also know that the US has a love/hate relationship with illegal immigrants. While they do provide cheap labor, they are a burden on our society without paying into it.
Is your question "why now?" Or is it simply "why?"
I don't know why it's a big problem now. Probably because since 9/11 a lot of people are afraid. Even though the terrorists came in through Canada, the Mexicans are easier to be afraid of. They don't speak English and they look different.
What are you getting at, tw?
You know why Israel wants to keep the Palestinians out. It's because a small subset of their numbers are trying to blow the Israelis up.
Why did Arab Israeli terrorism stop *completely* in the late 1990s? What changed that created 2000+ terrorism? There was no need for walls in the late 1990s. What changed?
Assumption that illegal immigraton causes undo stress on American resources has long been proven wrong. It can cause isolated problem where, for example, the most productive source of America's future - immigrants legal and illegal - require education and other investments in America's future. But long term, illegal immigation has been beneficial to the United States. Meanwhile why does this illegal immigration exist? Also why was it not a major problem decades ago? What changed?
What changed that caused this need for a wall? I keep asking this question. Not one response has yet to even approach an answer. Every answer goes to some propaganda idea that 'they are not wanted', or that they are illegal and therefore must be bad. Ok. Why?
Why did the Demilitarized Zone wall in Vietnam fail so catastrophically? Go right back to same principles that are not being addressed here. What is this problem that a wall is suppose to solve? I read popular myths. But I have yet to read a concrete fact. What exactly is the reason for this problem?
Nope, the wall in Israel is to keep the Jews in one place so we can kill off 13 million to force the second coming. Don't you know anything? :lol:
Well according to administration policies over the past five years, we have all but encouraged Iran to finish each other off with nuclear weapons. The funniest part is that this conclusion is half humorous and half true.
Well, TW, in the world according
to DOV, it's the agenda. :rolleyes:
Well, TW, in the world according to DOV, it's the agenda. :rolleyes:
My vanity thanks you.
The Security Fence is being built with the sole purpose of saving the lives of the Israeli citizens who continue to be targeted by the terrorist campaign that began in 2000. The fact that over 800 men, women and children have been killed in horrific suicide bombings and other terror attacks clearly justifies the attempt to place a physical barrier in the path of terrorists.
It should be noted that terrorism has been defined throughout the international community as a crime against humanity. As such, the State of Israel not only has the right but also the obligation to do everything in its power to lessen the impact and scope of terrorism on the citizens of Israel.
http://www.securityfence.mod.gov.il/Pages/ENG/questions.htm
Supporters regard it as a necessary tool protecting Israeli civilians from terrorist attacks that have plagued the country since the start the Al-Aqsa Intifada in September 2000 and regard it as a major causal factor in reducing incidents of terrorism by 90% from 2002 to 2005.
As of January 2006 the length of the barrier as approved by the Israeli government is 670 kilometers. Approximately 36 % has been constructed, 25 % is under construction, 20 % has been approved but construction has not yet begun, and the remaining 19 % awaits final approval
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_West_Bank_barrier
Your turn.
I did not watch the speech either as I can't stomach politicians in general. However I do support strong borders and both the Mexican and Canadian borders are unacceptably open in my opinion. There are too many people in this world that want all of us dead for the simple fact that we don't align with their god or that we have something they want or resent. There is no way to change this ... you change our policies to please one group and you alienate a different group.
I fully support isolationism at this point. Turn off all the foreign aid taps and take care of our own and do our best to protect the people in this country. This would make those countries that don't want us there happy and piss off those that do want us there (again, make one set happy, piss off an other)
I did not watch the speech either as I can't stomach politicians in general. However I do support strong borders and both the Mexican and Canadian borders are unacceptably open in my opinion. There are too many people in this world that want all of us dead for the simple fact that we don't align with their god or that we have something they want or resent. There is no way to change this ... you change our policies to please one group and you alienate a different group.
I fully support isolationism at this point. Turn off all the foreign aid taps and take care of our own and do our best to protect the people in this country. This would make those countries that don't want us there happy and piss off those that do want us there (again, make one set happy, piss off an other)
Its ok, go ahead and isolate. China is waiting in the wings and it would be their pleasure in replacing you for our two-way trade in goods and services between Canada and the U.S. which was in 2004 worth over US$441 billion. (China has better credit, net 30)
Canada is the United States' largest supplier of crude oil and refined products, natural gas, electricity and uranium.
In 2004, Canada's energy exports to the U.S. were valued at around $65 billion.
Canada supplies 88 percent of U.S. natural gas imports and 17 percent of U.S. imports of crude and refined oil products - more than any foreign supplier at over 2.1 million barrels a day.
isolate
India has jumped into the intense competition for Canadian oil sands assets with plans to invest $1 billion over the next 12 months, a top Indian energy official said on Tuesday.
India, which has mounted a high-profile hunt for foreign reserves to help power its growing economy, is not worried its plans will put it head-to-head with longtime rival China in bidding for Canadian oil sands assets.
Chinese firms have been enthusiastic investors in northeastern Alberta's vast oil sands resources over the past year, taking stakes in a handful of development projects and a pipeline proposal.As many as four Indian companies are looking to invest in in the region.
Besides recent interest among Chinese firms, the region has attracted French oil major Total SA.
isolate
Canada has larger oil reserves than Saudi Arabia.
Please build a wall along our border of 5,526 miles of land, which separates us.
As long as it keeps you out of my country and from invading us and stealing our oil.
Would you consider for a moment that it's possible your paranoia is getting the better of you dov?
Would you consider for a moment that it's possible your paranoia is getting the better of you dov?
My paranoia is my best friend. Its kept me alive this long and loves partying with me.
I had a friend like that once. Not all friends are good friends. Not all friends are good for the soul or the body.
Incidently, Australia has to be one of the most isolated countries in the world but that hasn't stopped us from having issues with illegal imigrants or terrorism or any of the other things discussed on this thread due to shared borders.
'due to' probably should have been; being attributed to.
As long as it keeps you out of my country and from invading us and stealing our oil.
Trust me, you and Canada have nothing I want.
Trust me, you and Canada have nothing I want.
Tell me that when you run out of gas.
We are your number one oil supplier and there is a rumour the Saudi reserves are eighty percent depleted.
Your plan to rip off Iraqi’s oil fucked up.
China has signed with both Mexico and Venezuela, for oil, (and us).
I recommend you learn how to ride a horse to work.
We may talk about water another time.
Tell me that when you run out of gas.
We are your number one oil supplier and there is a rumour the Saudi reserves are eighty percent depleted.
Your plan to rip off Iraqi’s oil fucked up.
China has signed with both Mexico and Venezuela, for oil, (and us).
I recommend you learn how to ride a horse to work.
We may talk about water another time.
you are one deluded and confused individual ... good luck with that.
you are one deluded and confused individual.
I am one hundred percent correct.
I could shove a thousand references that Canada is America’s leading supplier of imported oil, natural gas, uranium, and electricity, up your nose and you wouldn’t smell a thing. You would most definitely reply with something insightful and witty such as,
you are one deluded and confused individual.
Here is a reference, I have one hundred more, but you have proven to me that even the time I am spending presently showing you facts, is useless. I have seen you on every Board I have ever visited, your predictable and a dime a dozen.
Canada is America’s leading supplier of imported oil, natural gas, uranium, and electricity.
The United States imports more petroleum products from Canada than from any other country--including 1.6 million barrels of crude oil per day, which is around 15 percent of our oil imports.
Net imports of natural gas from Canada into the United States represent about 16 percent of U.S. natural gas demand.
Canada also supplies electricity to over 30 U.S. states. Our cross-border electricity trade flows in both directions, and our systems are highly integrated
Http://www.energy.gov/news/1947.htm
If Canada gave a shit, we may supply you with the mortar for your wall, but we do not, so find your own mortar.
American Freemasons are drooling
All your base belong to US. :p
All your base belong to US.
What language is that?
Your confusion is understandable. Bruce was close, but he overlooked some simple grammar. It's "All your base are belong to US."
Why are any of us bothering to reply to this person? They post a question then jump on any one who doesn't agree with their point of view. So you think Canada is a great super power ... as I said before, "good luck with that". If we had any chance that Canada could actually safe guard it's own border, then we wouldn't need a border between us ... but you can't!
And you can reply with whatever inane or insane comment (that I know you will, go head, prove me right) as I will not be returning to this thread nor to any thread you start again ...
I will not be returning to this thread nor to any thread you start again ...
I didn't mean to scare you away.
"All your base are belong to US." Is that some type of code?
We have no reason to isolate. We are not worried that terrorists will enter Canada through the States. We do not need a wall. We are a peace loving country, and the world knows we will always be anywhere needed in the name of peace. Occasionally we go after the bad guys.
BTW, you need us, we do not need you. You are our only liability.
Large numbers of new Canadian soldiers have begun arriving in perilous southern Afghanistan, where they will be deployed in the Taliban stronghold of Kandahar.
The Canadian troops are set to take over control of the coalition operations in the troubled province from the United States. "We're going to be out hunting down the last of the Taliban.” Kandahar
They will also be looking for OBL, remember OBL? OBL who was responsible for 9/11, contrary to the popular belief that Saddam was responsible.
BTW, you need us, we do not need you. You are our only liability.
Well, we
are holding Mike Meyers hostage... And I'd say Celine Dion is a second liability of yours.
What dov's really trying to say...
What dov's really trying to say...
Your map could use some fixin. You left off the umbilical cord connecting Quebec to France.
And I'd say Celine Dion is a second liability of yours.
As much as I wish I could, I can’t argue this fact, sigh.
Your map could use some fixin. You left off the umbilical cord connecting Quebec to France.
Who here boycotted French’s Mustard?
"All your base are belong to US." Is that some type of code?
Yes.
Well, not actually. It is an inside joke and you are outdoors.
Sorry for skipping ahead before reading all the other posts, it is doubtful that I'd remember this initial thought by the time I got to the end.
Good. Why are those people undesireable and why must they be kept out?snip
Well, for starters we have to pay them a shit load more money in the states than we do if they are kept at home. Doesn't letting them into the US defeat the point of nafta? How are US corporations going to enjoy the benefits of remote slavery if the slaves insist on moving closer to our home? jeez louise.
And dov, speaking of ass cracks, my first reaction to the wall was how about a wall between my asshole and the current administration? I'm sure I'm not the only american who could get behind that, so to speak.
BTW, we'd suss out you canucks the moment you said eh? at the end of a sentence ass crack or not.
now I'll go ahead and read the rest of the replies
"All your base are belong to US." Is that some type of code?
Yes.
Well, not actually. It is an inside joke and you are outdoors.
And while you're at it, take off every zig.
[QUOTE=tw]Good. Why are those people undesireable and why must they be kept out?
Well, for starters we have to pay them a shit load more money in the states than we do if they are kept at home. Doesn't letting them into the US defeat the point of nafta? How are US corporations going to enjoy the benefits of remote slavery if the slaves insist on moving closer to our home? jeez louise[/QUOTE] Bingo. So why do we subsidize so many corporations to keep those jobs in America - that then require illegal immigrants? Why does the US government subsidize 50% of all sugar especially for the benefit of US Sugar and others on corporate welfare. From The Economist of 25 April 2005:
These are not happy times for the dwindling band of free-traders in Washington, DC. Trade sceptics are on the move on two fronts: raising the barricades against the Chinese and refusing to lower them for the Central Americans. ...
Outrageous import quotas keep the domestic price of sugar at double that of the world price. CAFTA would allow more imports in from Central American countries, but still less than 2% of US sugar production. For the sugar lobby—and the 15 or so Republican politicians who follow its bidding—that is still too much.
Furthemore, US government subsidizes make it virtually impossible to grow sugar in nations where sugar is better grown. US literally dumps excess sugar on world markets thereby destroying jobs in those other nations.
This is why the Doha Round broke up three days early in Cancun when anti-free trade nations - US and France - refused to even negotiate. Trade of goods WE make in American by restricting free trade and by subsidizing with corporate welfare.
We massively subsidize corn that is better grown overseas. OK. Now that agricultural industry needs employees. But we put restriction on legal immigration by requiring things like advance degrees. Where are those labors to come from? From the countries who need those jobs and could better grow that corn if free trade was practiced.
Now we will solve a problem that WE created by putting up walls? When does intelligence get used instead of bricks? In other venues, that same condition is called a riot - what happens when people use force rather than intellect to solve a problem.
They would rather stay home and work. But there is no work at home. US agricultural subsidies alone literally bankrupt third world agricultural industries. Sugar is only one in a long list of problems created by Americans who are 'on the take' and by other Americans who ignore this political corruption called corporate welfare.
You think a wall is a solution? Well how much do you ready know about the WTO Cancun conference where enemies of free trade were the United States and France?
For great justice!!!
Somebody set up us the bomb!
(damn, that works for both the real thread and the drift, doesn't it?)
We massively subsidize corn that is better grown overseas. OK. Now that agricultural industry needs employees. But we put restriction on legal immigration by requiring things like advance degrees. Where are those labors to come from? From the countries who need those jobs and could better grow that corn if free trade was practiced.
I doubt we need foreign workers for the corn, wheat, sorgum, millet, sunflower or rice farms. These are highly mechanized and automated requiring very little labor.
The armies of cheap labor are needed for fruit and vegetable crops where hand labor is intensive and backbreaking. :thepain3:
snip
You think a wall is a solution? Well how much do you ready know about the WTO Cancun conference where enemies of free trade were the United States and France?
tw, you have a lot of good points thst I'd like to reply to, but I just got back from the hospital after cutting part of my finger off, so limited typing.
the wall is just rearranging deck chair on the titanic. its' just a cluster fuck and I'm sure the job will go to one of bush pals.
gotta go now
thank you for making it clear that you still don't get it.
tw, you have a lot of good points thst I'd like to reply to, but I just got back from the hospital after cutting part of my finger off, so limited typing.
Which letters will be missing in future posts?
Which letters will be missing in future posts?
qwerty
asdfgh
zxcvbn
will appear randomly and in no predictablr oderr order
Shouldn't that be:
2
w
s
x
and their shifted counterparts?
Edit:
I noted after posting that the subset listed above would make the word sexwax particularly difficult for you to type. As a courtesy, I intended to include a link for you. I was pleasantly surprised to find two good ones. Enjoy.
SexWax, what it really is...
Sexwax, what you wanted it to be. ;)
tw, you have a lot of good points thst I'd like to reply to, but I just got back from the hospital after cutting part of my finger off, so limited typing.
www.sawstop.comwww.sawstop.com
A pal of mine has this saw. it is a no brainer.
now wehn they make a jointer stop...
;)
Does this mean that footfootfoot cannot point his finger at the camera and say, "I did not have sex with that woman"? Is that a good thing? What would Bill say?
www.sawstop.com
The problem with that thing is you have to take it on faith it will work when you need it.
When activated, it destroys the brake and the blade (hopefully not a Freud), so you set it up with a new blade & brake and hope it'll work again. :worried:
The problem with that thing is you have to take it on faith it will work when you need it.
When activated, it destroys the brake and the blade (hopefully not a Freud), so you set it up with a new blade & brake and hope it'll work again. :worried:
First off all, I can still point the finger at anyone and my caapccaity for denial is undiminshed by either the painkillers or whatever I was going to say.
Secondly, somehting else.
as for the new saw brake and blade, I've already paid for it in time lost to work. (self employed here)
as what's his name said:
you can't have everything, where would you put it?
First off all, I can still point the finger at anyone and my caapccaity for denial is undiminshed by either the painkillers or whatever I was going to say.
So did you have sex with that woman? I don't care about the saw blade.
dov, you sure are a condescending fucker.
let me remind you that you are not Canada. you may be Canadian, but you're not Canada. stop trying to take credit for your percieved superiority.
cock
Sexwax, what you wanted it to be. ;)
While quite great, that link left off perhaps the best known and most well done of that genre:
So did you have sex with that woman? I don't care about the saw blade.
How do you define the word: "with"?
How do you define the word: "with"?
Bill!! How are you? How's Hilary?
While quite great, that link left off perhaps the best known and most well done of that genre:
Just need to say I have that slab of vinyl wrapped in that creamy goodness.
What do you think about the proposed wall separating Mexico and the States?
What do you think about the Berlin wall?
What do you think about wall separating the Palestinians from Israel?
What do you think about Bush’s bullshit about "false comfort of isolationism"?
What do you think of the fact that Canadians can tip-toe across the States border at will, and easily impersonate Americans by wearing jeans which show the top of our ass crack when we bend over?
I missed the address. I would have enjoyed bush giving us his unique interpretation when he attempted to say the word isolationism.
Bush doesn't understand the difference between isolationism and neutrality, that is to say, minding our own goddamned business.
Just need to say I have that slab of vinyl wrapped in that creamy goodness.
I also have it ... a favorite album of my childhood, which I just got on CD.
minding our own goddamned business.
I am going to say these two word. I do not believe you’ve heard them before.
I am going to say them only once.
Here they come.
You ready and listening?
OK now
Human beings
No one has a monopoly on them. About seventy years ago, someone tried.
cock
A gentleman amongst 300 million Americans is affected by a man who lives amongst about 30 million. Conscious getting to you? Its bound to happen preferably before the onset of ulcers.
Human beings
No one has a monopoly on them. About seventy years ago, someone tried.
Can you please elaborate on what you are talking about? I guess I'm not adequately attuned to your higher thought process, lol.
A gentleman amongst 300 million Americans is affected by a man who lives amongst about 30 million. Conscious getting to you? Its bound to happen preferably before the onset of ulcers.
does this make sense?
did you mean conscience? i still don't get it.
you miss my point, i think. i'm saying i am not my country. i am not my job. i am not .....nevermind.
you rule, dov, you're the fucking king. canada rocks. big jews from canada rock extra.
Now you've got it, Jim. ;)
does this make sense?
did you mean conscience? i still don't get it.
you miss my point, i think. i'm saying i am not my country. i am not my job. i am not .....nevermind.
you rule, dov, you're the fucking king. canada rocks. big jews from canada rock extra.
BS. If you weren’t American you wouldn’t give a sh!t. You are American, live with it. Seems to be an epidemic of Americans claiming they are not American, that they are human lately. If you had that attitude twenty years ago, it may have helped. Abdicating now is either fear or quilt and useless. Other than, it cleanses your soul. Ulcers
Let me know if you understand or not, I do dummy down on occaision.
dov, i understand that you think you're smarter than everyone. I also understand that your inferiority complex requires you to constantly compare yourself to the best. I now realize that you are little better than a troll, and as you're main interest lie with politics, i could give a shit.
anyway, canada really doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things.
He probably only reads the threads to which he has already posted and therefore receives notification. I understand you are enjoying taunting him, but you are reinforcing the behavior. I also recognize that I also just did by replying to this, but it had to be said. And you're right, jim. Canada doesn't matter, except in hockey.
i was thinking we should ice him, too. i'm in if you are.
BS. If you weren’t American you wouldn’t give a sh!t. You are American, live with it. Seems to be an epidemic of Americans claiming they are not American, that they are human lately.
I would love (one day too late) to know where you are going. What is your point? Maybe a concise summary of objectives might be in order? Currently I see random responses to posts that may be provided to only distract and bait you. If so, they are doing a very amusing job. What exactly is your point?
What exactly is your question?
My point is, Americans are waking up. Rhetoric and spin have almost become impotent. You laugh at yourselves when you hear the pontificating leaving your mouths. It beats crying I suppose. Spin, rep, dem, and in between are fighting their best not to accept they are alllllll responsible for war crimes and crimes against humanity. I have been doing what I do since the present administration took power and the citizen became brainwashed clones; I have attempted placing a mirror to the nose of a rationalizing American. You are waking up. It hurts. You transfer your shame and belittle peace-loving countries. It is a start. You will hang him and get the blood off your hands. Later, if you dare look close enough, you will see the blood embedded in your hands forever or until you redeem yourselves somehow. I cannot see how. Your grandchildren will be stigmatized and their grandchildren, because of you! But I didn’t know moaned by a population 60 years ago, didn’t work, and wont work again. All, dems , reps, and others are responsible. You had the right, obligation as stated in the second amendment to have an armed revolt, to storm the White House and vote a legitimate administration, into power You were too busy deciding the brand of the plasma TV you planned to buy.
I have not a clue what your enriched white bread question was and I do not give a dam.
Wait wait wait,
- tw asked for a concise summary?
- and didn't get one??
What happens next? We are in danger of the universe exploding...
Wait wait wait, What happens next? We are in danger of the universe exploding...
What happens next? Babylon, USA, and its decadence continue to feed terrorism, children starving and dieing of aids in the third world. We saw third world, Katrina. A few more natural disasters, (Gaia is pissed, should have signed the Kyoto Accord. She sees everything), several local mall, brief case dirty bombs.
Code red. Country comes to a standstill, other than mercenaries, Blackwater confiscating arms, and using the constitution as toilet paper. Too rough, so its not even good enough to wipe an American’s ass, flushed and clogs the toilet, fcuking constitution. Pleaseeeeeee world, Pleaseeeeeeee world help us poor victimised United States of America. Maybe states, once you have paid back every cent you owe to everyone, we will consider it. In other words, when hell freezes over.
Babylon falls, States becomes third world. For the sake of ceremony bush is hung (According to Jeff "Bulldog" Gannon, bush is far from hung) and his body burnt, not necessarily in that order. Keep in mind, always, when I speak of the American population, its not left, right, or centre, it is the American population, across the board.
We have a Contingency plan, to build igloos along our 8000 mile border to keep you out, when your sh1t hits your fan.
What happens next? ... Code red.
He defines the code as red but uses black letters. Now I understand. Barak is back.
That is the best you could come up with? Pitiful. I caught the innuendoes. Doubly pitiful. Try saying it to someone’s face one day, no innuendoes, but that take balls.
You are a nickle a dozen.
tw has identified you as Barak. That means he knows your game is merely to provoke, and he won't play. The attention seeker, when starved of attention, is either reformed, goes away, or becomes so obviously intentionally annoying that s/he is banned.
We have seen this pattern repeated hundreds of times. Barak was the 1991-92 version.
tw has identified you as Barak. That means he knows your game is merely to provoke, and he won't play. The attention seeker, when starved of attention, is either reformed, goes away, or becomes so obviously intentionally annoying that s/he is banned.
We have seen this pattern repeated hundreds of times. Barak was the 1991-92 version.
Thank you.
I am considering reforming. I will let you know. I have never reformed before. We will see how it goes.
You can ban someone here because the hierarchy does not like him or her?
I really hate PC popularity contests, but it is your show. I am just a humble newbie
It's pretty rare. The new user registration explains
There are only three RULES of the Cellar.
1. Do not try to break the law using the Cellar.
2. Do not try to break the Cellar.
3. Do not be "intolerably irritating".
The meaning of that last item is of course open to interpretation. But basically, if you are a troll, attention whore, moron, spammer, single-issue hammer or otherwise non-community oriented, you may be removed and banned and whatever else is required to keep your ass away from the place.
For once, Beestie and I agree...
Stream of Consciousness writing just barely worked for James Joyce.
Barely.
i can't believe dov has made it this far without being banned. you guys are getting lenient in the cellar's old age.
Well unlike that HUMBUG, he's restricting most of the crap to two threads and making some interesting points.
Actually, In the cellar's old age nobody got banned, it was a tradition. In the Internet era there are far too many purposeful trolls and assholes and attention whores to maintain that policy. I personally have come to the conclusion that moderation is, sadly, necessary.
It's impossible to make everyone happy with any level of moderation, but more people are happy with it than without it. Some people think there is a prinicple at stake here, but having to ban one spammer per day has really changed my mind about that. It makes it clear there is content we simply won't put up with, and no principle worth protecting that speech.
DOV’s problem is limited comprehension. Seeing several thousand people screwed by Katrina and wailing on TV leads to the assumption the US will fold in an emergency. Forgetting that millions were severely affected by that storm. Millions are coping and moving ahead without making the news. Millions are being helped by other millions under the radar. That’s the problem of viewing the world through the media. :eyebrow:
DOV’s problem is limited comprehension. Seeing several thousand people screwed by Katrina and wailing on TV leads to the assumption the US will fold in an emergency. Forgetting that millions were severely affected by that storm. Millions are coping and moving ahead without making the news. Millions are being helped by other millions under the radar. That’s the problem of viewing the world through the media. :eyebrow:
Nice to see your paying attention.
Do not be "intolerably irritating".
The meaning of that last item is of course open to interpretation. But basically, if you are a troll, attention whore, moron, spammer, single-issue hammer or otherwise non-community oriented, you may be removed and banned and whatever else is required to keep your ass away from the place
In other words you can ban someone here because the hierarchy does not like him or her.
No wonder this Forum is so meat and potatoes.
We will see…
Isolationism
I need your conspiracy theories
Paint it Black
How Many Times Do You Wear a Pair of Jeans Before Washing?
We support our troops????
We lost.
Where'd you get your handle from?
In the spirit of fargons what are you wearing, a/s/l
bac
Humor...I Need Humor...
What I Learned Today
Jack The Ripper
Bipartisanship, Dems with no ideas
Final Choices
fetish?
Are you a good person or a bad person?
The Wal-Mart Problem
Craziest place you have...
Sorry I wasn’t more diversified. My attention at times was caring for a couple of threads I began which had well over 100 posts. I am like that; I take care of my threads. Multitasking is not my forte. Maybe you can teach me?
Consider it is not I. Consider you are narrow minded, and the status quo must be defended at any cost. Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolute. Sleep on it.
TV leads to the assumption the US will fold.
It is inevitable. Babylon will fold.
Sorry I wasn’t more diversified. My attention at times was caring for a couple of threads I began which had well over 100 posts. I am like that; I take care of my threads. Multitasking is not my forte. Maybe you can teach me?
Er... You know, now that I think about it, why don't you just stay with your pet threads? :rolleyes:
The Cellar? Meat and potatoes? Its more like a giant smorgasboard. I think I'll go read the "What's for lunch" thread now. :yum:
In other words you can ban someone here because the hierarchy does not like him or her.
And yet you're still here, although most find you to be as pathetic a figure as we've seen.
And yet you're still here, although most find you to be as pathetic a figure as we've seen.
Undertoad, nice to know who is the spokesperson for the
we'ves is.
Well, I would say this Forum either tops or is pretty dam close at being at the top of Message Boards which judges the poster and not the post. Hey, if it works for you, go for it. My posts may change but I wont. We will see how its resolved, I am not leaving, even though most who have judged me are pretentious holier than thou hypocrites.
Its fun attempting to put one down isn’t it? It takes so little brainpower, schoolyard posturing.
I believe the States are decadent and that feeds terrorism and will ultimately be the States downfall. The amount spent on an illegal invasion and the subsequent murder of 100k innocent Iraqis, same bucks spent in narrowing the rift between third world and the decadent ones would have made a profound effect in lowering terrorism. It would have defused it.
I believe the states is being run by born again evangelicals whose ultimate goal is to herd all of the world Jews into the west bank, slaughtering thirteen million, the worlds total population of Jews, minus 144,000 who will be saved due to conversion, all this to bring back Jesus.
I don’t believe in borders especially walled ones.
I have a small pimple on my shoulder, lets focus on the pimple, k?
Who wants to pop it?
I believe the States are decadent and that feeds terrorism and will ultimately be the States downfall.
When?
Just a rough estimate will do, but "ultimately" is about as impractically untenable as Revelation prophesy.
Yesterday.
You are entitled to your point of view.
The amount spent on an illegal invasion and the subsequent murder of 100k innocent Iraqis, same bucks spent in narrowing the rift between third world and the decadent ones would have made a profound effect in lowering terrorism. It would have defused it.
I believe the states is being run by born again evangelicals...
Dov, you have two and a half sentences in your post that would actually make for a reasonable discussion or debate. The problem that you have which is even worse than your writing style, is that you "single issue hammer," in the words of UT.
We all understand how horrific the holocaust was (and Jews weren't the only group targeted for extermination, BTW). We all understand that certain groups would like to see Israel destroyed. We all understand that certain Evangelicals actually do have the agenda you described in mind.
However, society, politics, and life in general are a complex, intersecting web of beleif's, actions, nations, and philosophies. You are like someone who is standing in the middle of a burning forest and concentrating on a single tree that might or might not catch flame when you could be out helping dig a fire line around the entire thing.
Let's say that you are correct, and the US ultimately falls completely into the hands of whacko's who expect the book of Revelations prophesy that you have outlined to come true. Its really hard to go there, even in hypothetical land, frankly. I can envision a hypothetical US that restricts more and more freedoms, just as it is currently doing. I can go to a hypothetical land where the US government becomes ever more repressive. But you are asking us to waltz off to a hypothetical land where the US rounds up every Jew on the face of the earth, forcibly transports them all to Israel, and then exterminates them all a la Hitler, except for 144,000 lucky ones who make nice to the concentration camp guards
The logistics alone of this are mind boggling. There are so many more possible future scenarios of atrocities that are far more plausible than yours. It is an interesting idea to bring up once, but to keep whining away about it really does place you in the lunatic fringe catagory.
Helpful Hint: Do not show up on a US board and make blanket accusations of how awful we all are. I post to the boards where there are Brit's, Canadians, Aussies, etc who are quite dismayed by current US policies. They talk about the need for reform in their own countries, as well, and they don't hate me or other people from the US who post there just because we are Americans. Some of us might actually have been on your side if you were posting stuff that was slightly more in the realm of sanity and if your over-all attitude was slightly less derogatory. :eyebrow:
Thank you for your thoughtful post and recommendations.
Yes I do stand in the middle of a forest fire and focus on one tree.
I have no affect on the forest, just possibly the tree.
I beleive in what I post.
I don’t care what anybody thinks of me. Nobody knows me. (You will grow to love me.)
Many of you address yourselves as we. Have you noticed?
I have never had a need to be a part of we.
I truly appreciate your post.
...
I have never had a need to be a part of we.
I truly appreciate your post.
Then why the heck are you here? Seriously. :eyebrow:
I appreciate your posts too.
Yesterday.
You are entitled to your point of view.
Thank you, but I have not expressed my point of view. "Yesterday" is patently false, as the United States is still a functioning country as of today.
When will our inevitable downfall occur? 5 years? 50 years?
I have never had a need to be a part of we.
Unless
we = Jews and/or Canadians, I suppose?
Let's say that you are correct, and the US ultimately falls completely into the hands of whacko's who expect the book of Revelations prophesy that you have outlined to come true. Its really hard to go there, even in hypothetical land, frankly. I can envision a hypothetical US that restricts more and more freedoms, just as it is currently doing. I can go to a hypothetical land where the US government becomes ever more repressive. But you are asking us to waltz off to a hypothetical land where the US rounds up every Jew on the face of the earth, forcibly transports them all to Israel, and then exterminates them all a la Hitler, except for 144,000 lucky ones who make nice to the concentration camp guards
The logistics alone of this are mind boggling.
Could you, in your wildest dreams about six years ago, envisioned where we are standing today? I won’t list the atrocities, I will just say, the logistics, which brought us to this reality, today, alone are mind-boggling. One example, eight trillion. There are 1000 more examples of this twilight zone. I can’t focus on the thousand. I would become saturated. Simply one at a time is how I work.
Ten percent of the world’s population are Born Again Evangelicals. I will worry for both of us, unless you are one of those who spark the flame to fry us.
Thank you, but I have not expressed my point of view. "Yesterday" is patently false, as the United States is still a functioning country as of today. When will our inevitable downfall occur? 5 years? 50 years?
Yesterday. All your bridges have been burnt. All illusions of functioning is a delusion.
Jews and/or Canadians, I suppose?
Ungrounded assumption, and stereotypical, a shot in the dark and none of your business. Good try at pushing the personal button though. Try again, now that I know whom and what you are it will be more difficult. You played that card way too early.
Ungrounded assumption, and stereotypical, a shot in the dark and none of your business.
Which, that you're Canadian, or that you're Jewish? You've said both. Is is an ungrounded assumption that you thell the truth?
I believe it was Canadian, Jewish, artist, fund-raiser. :ghost:
Which, that you're Canadian, or that you're Jewish? You've said both. Is is an ungrounded assumption that you thell the truth?
Ungrounded by the fact I do not define myself by religion or nationality as was implied.
I am grateful being both.
How do you define yourself?
I believe it was Canadian, Jewish, artist, fund-raiser. :ghost:
I am flattered, thank you. (sculptor)
I am also a father a son a brother a friend, and a human being.
I am blessed with three wonderful young adults, who were once my babies. The boys are twins, twenty-one, their sister is twenty-two. I was a single parent of three babies in diapers at the same time.
I have the most wonderful cat in the world, Pookie. Please don’t tell him I called him a cat, he doesn’t know.
Thanks again for your attention.
Could you, in your wildest dreams about six years ago, envisioned where we are standing today? I won’t list the atrocities, I will just say, the logistics, which brought us to this reality, today, alone are mind-boggling. One example, eight trillion. There are 1000 more examples of this twilight zone. I can’t focus on the thousand. I would become saturated. Simply one at a time is how I work.
Ten percent of the world’s population are Born Again Evangelicals. I will worry for both of us, unless you are one of those who spark the flame to fry us.
Six years ago I had other things on my so-called mind, but, yes, as a matter of fact, I could have accepted the hypothesis of a future which has become current reality. Six years ago, the US was as greedy for oil as it is now; six years ago the US had already engaged in the first Gulf War; six years ago I saw first hand how the US military was treating its Gulf War veterans; six years ago my city had already been over-run with religous whacko's like the Focus on the Family crowd, etc., etc.
I don't know about your statistic of 10% of the world being Evangelicals, but, for the sake of argument, I'll accept it. I live in a town right next door to the epicenter of the religous right in this country, Colorado Springs. The town I currently reside in has a reputation for being a haven for Wiccan's and other pagan types. There are certainly i
ndividuals in the next town over who practice religous intolerance. I have had people advise me to move out of my town or just look at me like I've suddenly sprouted two horns and a tail when I tell them where I live. Ignorant folks next door think witches on broomsticks fly around here. Whatever.
The fact remains that no one has come and burned down my town or rounded up its residents to be burned at the stake. We still have the same rights here as the folks next door do, despite the fact that we all live in the same county. When I go down to the county court house for some reason and give my place of residence, I am not automatically shunted off into a "witches only area." The local representative to the state legislature actually resides in my community.
You are going to have a very hard time getting me to believe that this country would round up all Jewish Americans to be deported to Israel and killed. If somebody ever sets fire to Manitou Springs, I'll be sure to let you all know, never fear. I was horrified when everyone told me of the danger involved when I thought I had run across some old explosives, since I have no desire to send sparks flying at ANYONE. :worried:
Then why the heck are you here? Seriously. :eyebrow:
I appreciate your posts too.
To learn, to laugh, for company, and on occasion make a friend.
You?
Sometimes, a rolled-up newspaper isn't the reason for the silence but the reason for the barking.
Six years ago I had other things on my so-called mind, but, yes, as a matter of fact, I could have accepted the hypothesis of a future which has become current reality. Six years ago, the US was as greedy for oil as it is now; six years ago the US had already engaged in the first Gulf War; six years ago I saw first hand how the US military was treating its Gulf War veterans; six years ago my city had already been over-run with religous whacko's like the Focus on the Family crowd, etc., etc.
I don't know about your statistic of 10% of the world being Evangelicals, but, for the sake of argument, I'll accept it. I live in a town right next door to the epicenter of the religous right in this country, Colorado Springs. The town I currently reside in has a reputation for being a haven for Wiccan's and other pagan types. There are certainly individuals in the next town over who practice religous intolerance. I have had people advise me to move out of my town or just look at me like I've suddenly sprouted two horns and a tail when I tell them where I live. Ignorant folks next door think witches on broomsticks fly around here. Whatever.
The fact remains that no one has come and burned down my town or rounded up its residents to be burned at the stake. We still have the same rights here as the folks next door do, despite the fact that we all live in the same county. When I go down to the county court house for some reason and give my place of residence, I am not automatically shunted off into a "witches only area." The local representative to the state legislature actually resides in my community.
You are going to have a very hard time getting me to believe that this country would round up all Jewish Americans to be deported to Israel and killed. If somebody ever sets fire to Manitou Springs, I'll be sure to let you all know, never fear. I was horrified when everyone told me of the danger involved when I thought I had run across some old explosives, since I have no desire to send sparks flying at ANYONE. :worried:
Wonderful post, thank you.
I have been expearincing an alternative awareness.
Many of the German Jews of the twenties and thirties were affluent, assimilated and a part of the tapestry of what was Germany, an invisible minority. There were also Hasidic, Ultra Orthodox Jews who were visible. Eventually, cloned, brainwashed (but I didn’t know, as he or she was paraded past mountains of half baked rotting Jewish flesh, at the end of the war) average Joe civilian received pleasure yanking the beards off Orthodox Jews, by hand, taking clumps of flesh along with hair. At the time there were eleven million Jews in Europe. Hitler baked more than fifty percent of them. The horror was not that he fried six million; (which of course was horrible), the horror is how systematically he did it. You know all about the power of propaganda. Propaganda has become much more sophisticated today. Dr Joseph Goebbels would be pleased that his fundamental manipulations are flourishing.
Nobody knew then.
I will never forget.
I expect the BACS to attempt to fulfill the tribulations, Godly divined or not.
Because I am a Jew I was confronted in a kill or be killed scenario. I wasn’t killed.
You're welcome. I am actually sitting here debating you to night because the web site I am trying to build in regard to my own pet peeve is down, and I feel quite frustrated at the moment.
I am well aware that many German Jews were assimilated into German society and considered themselves good German citizens, maybe even before they thought of themselves as Jews.
When I was in college one of my botany professors was Jewish. I really liked this man - he was one of my favorite teachers. I took a summer field course from him that involved much time spent out in the mountains, gathering botanical specimens. One night me and him and the rest of the class (there were ten of us) were sitting on a hillside after a long day collecting and just looking up at the stars. Someone brought up the subject of the holocaust (it wasn't the prof), and I remarked that it seemed to me that the average German was trapped into silence about the entire thing. After all, I argued, they had their families there in that country, their jobs, their friends and their lives. They were living under a dictatorship and they knew the price they'd pay for speaking out. They were only human. Surely, one might at least understand if not completely forgive them for not protesting.
My professor became quite angry at my words. He said to me that there was absolutely no excuse for the silence of the German people in regard to what was happening to the Jews and other groups at the time. He said that the lives of 6 million people could have been spared, since to hear everyone talk after Germany lost the war, that everyone had been a "good" German and was horrified at what went on. He said if all those "good" Germans had acted to opposed such a terrible evil carried out by a minority then Auschwitz and the rest of the camps would never have been built. He said there is never an excuse for remaining silent in the face of such atrocities being done to one's fellow human beings.
We were all humbled by his words and sat silently for a while, staring up at the heavens.
My professor became quite angry at my words. He said to me that there was absolutely no excuse for the silence of the German people in regard to what was happening to the Jews and other groups at the time. He said that the lives of 6 million people could have been spared, since to hear everyone talk after Germany lost the war, that everyone had been a "good" German and was horrified at what went on. He said if all those "good" Germans had acted to opposed such a terrible evil carried out by a minority then Auschwitz and the rest of the camps would never have been built. He said there is never an excuse for remaining silent in the face of such atrocities being done to one's fellow human beings.
We were all humbled by his words and sat silently for a while, staring up at the heavens.
Goebbels made sure the German citizens were aware of the death camps. It was part of his propaganda machine. They said they didn’t know. They lied. I could prove that 100 times over. Please not tonight.
The American Second Amendment was for the purpose for the American citizen to bear arms for the sake of revolting against a corrupt American administration.
I hold every American, left, right and centre responsible for current war crimes and crimes against humanity. Nobody can convince me the American citizens are ignorant, powerless, victims.
I am so sorry; you seem like a nice person. Napalm, White Phosphorus, melting babies. 100k innocent Iraqis murdered. Abu Graib, Gitmo, transferring prisoners to torture friendly countries. Illegal invasions including recently, Pakistan. This is common knowledge. When bush is hung will you say you didn’t know?
I am actually sitting here debating you to night because the web site I am trying to build in regard to my own pet peeve is down
I am a second choice? Sigh.
Staring up at the heavens sounds lovely. It is minus 40c here tonight. I have two excelent down sleeping bags.
The American Second Amendment was for the purpose for the American citizen to bear arms for the sake of revolting against a corrupt American administration.
I hold every American, left, right and centre responsible for current war crimes and crimes against humanity. Nobody can convince me the American citizens are ignorant, powerless, victims.
Who would you have me shoot first, and what good would it do?
I hold every Canadian responsible for the fact that their government does not break all ties with the United States, complete with a total trade embargo, and a concrete wall 12 feet high, topped with barbed wire all along the Canadian/US border.
Where does that get us?
And, yes, debating you comes in second to doing what I can to save lives in my own country, in my own state, in my own town.
Individual Americans actually are pretty powerless. Unless you have a big wad of cash to throw at the nearest politician, the status quo will remain unchanged. I spend my days sending e-mails to the entire state legislature. I contact government agencies and file formal complaints. I make my town council hold special meetings just for the issues I bring up and have local federal representatives appear before them to answer their and my questions.
I know more than I want about what goes on in this country and this world.
I get e-mails from officials telling me that I am too angry and too confrontational and to please leave them alone.
Blanket condemnations will get you nothing but enemies.
It's - 3 farenheit in Colorado tonight - a tropical temperature when compared to that of the hearts of most of politicians.
What do you think your prof would say after he reads the rhetoric you just spewed, filled with just the proper balance of justification and rationalization.
What is the difference between the scenario he commented on and the present? He was disgusted they chose powerlessness.
I will tell you a secret. I really don’t like being disliked; no matter how well I play I don’t give a sh1t persona, so there is always the struggle between speaking the truth as I see it and kissing ass. I am not well liked, but I am true to me.
Well, Dov, I think my old prof would be proud of me for being such a tiger in the face of such insurmountable odds. :rtfm:
BTW, my story took place back in the Vietnam war era, and that prof wasn't joining the anti-war protests or writing letters to the editor demanding that Nixon be impeached. Talk is cheap on both sides of the equation.
According to you, every American should whip out a gun and kill the people you tell them to or be labeled as fascist pigs.
I'm not going to play the role of your hit man, so I guess I'll just oink on out of here.
Bye now.
I will tell you a secret. I really don’t like being disliked; no matter how well I play I don’t give a sh1t persona, so there is always the struggle between speaking the truth as I see it and kissing ass. I am not well liked, but I am true to me.
That may make you righteous but it doesn't make you right. :eyebrow:
I don’t need or want to be right, or righteous. I enjoyed talking with marichiko. I sense, well more than sense, she is multifaceted. Some others as well. I am here to learn and possibly make a friend, which is difficult, me being arrogant, abrasive, and self-centred. Those are my good traits. :o
You left out lousy judge of character. That really turns on the ladies.
Claiming I have no libido works for me. They have to try and prove me wrong.
Its relatively comparable to that converting a lesbian challenge thingy.
(btw, I have no libido)
For which we are extremely grateful.
btw, I have no libido
How can you be an artist without it? Especially sculpture, the most sensuous of the art forms.
I sense, well more than sense, she is multifaceted.
Facets are fine, it's the abrupt junctions that are jarring. :lol:
How can you be an artist without it? Especially sculpture, the most sensuous of the art forms.
Shhhh, psssttt, it a ploy, don’t let them know.
I live to grind stone mmmmmmmmmmm
Ummm anybody know what this thread started out as?
I enjoyed talking with marichiko. I sense, well more than sense, she is multifaceted.
You are a lousy judge of character
LMAO :lol2: Oh, man, Wolf! You should have AGREED with the man! Pffft! Did you ever mess up on a chance to come up with a witty comeback, or what? Thank you ever so much for defending me!
Note to Dov: I have a long history of battles on the Cellar, not the least of which was being accused of having a triple personality. Multifaceted, indeed!
Oh, my, thank you all for a good laugh! :lol:
Facets are fine, it's the abrupt junctions that are jarring. :lol:
After much prayer, meditation, and honest humble self-seeking, I can honestly, without reservation, say, I have never experienced an abrupt junction jarring.
Adds abrupt junction jarring to my wish list.
After much prayer, meditation, and honest humble self-seeking, I can honestly, without reservation, say, I have never experienced an abrupt junction jarring.
Adds abrupt junction jarring to my wish list.
Oh, Lord, I am cracking up here! It almost makes me wish Flippant/Atropos was still around (but not really). :lol:
By the way you may find the following interview with Anne Wright a former Colonel in the US Army and member of the US Foreign Service turned anti-war protestor, which appeared in
Counter Punch interesting (snip):
TD: So what is it that actually holds people back?
AW: I think the higher up you go, the more common it is for people to retire, or maybe even resign, and not say what the reasons are, because they may hope to get back into government in a different administration. Dick Clarke had served every administration since George Washington and maybe he was looking toward being called back as a political appointee again. Sometimes such people don't speak out because they feel loyalty to the person who appointed them. Nobody appointed me to nothin', except the American people. I'm a career foreign service officer and I serve the American people. When an administration wasn't serving the best interests of the American people, I felt I had to stand up.
TD: And are you now pretty much a full-time antiwar activist?
AW: [She laughs.] That's the way it's turned out.
TD: What, if anything, do you think your military career, your State Department career, and this… well, I can't call it a career… have in common?
AW: Service to America. It's all just a continuation of a real concern I have about my country.
TD: And what would you say to your former compatriots still in the military and the State Department?
AW: Many of the emails I received from Foreign Service officers said, I wish I could resign right now, but I've got kids in college, I've got mortgages, and I'm going to try really hard, by staying, to ameliorate the intensity of these policies. All I can say is that they must be in agony about not being able to affect policy. There have been plenty of early retirements by people who finally realized they couldn't moderate the policies of the Bush administration.
TD: What message would you send to the person you once were from the person you are now?
AW: You trained me well.
TD: If in this room you had the thirty-five year-old woman about to go into Grenada, as you did back in 1983, what would you want her to mull over.
AW: I would say: You were a good Army officer and Foreign Service officer. You weren't blind to the faults of America. In many jobs, you tried to rectify things that were going badly and you succeeded a couple of times. My resignation wasn't the first time I spoke out. For instance, I was loaned, or seconded, from the State Department to the staff of the United Nations operation in Somalia and ended up writing a memo concerning the military operations the UN was conducting to kill a warlord named Aideed. They started taking helicopters, standing off, and just blowing up buildings where they had intelligence indicating perhaps he was there. Well, tragically he never was, and here we were blowing up all these Somali families. Of course the Somalis were outraged and that outrage ultimately led to Blackhawk Down.
I wrote a legal opinion to the special representative of the Secretary General, saying the UN operations were illegal and had to stop. It was leaked to the Washington Post and I got in a bit of hot water initially, but ultimately my analysis proved correct. I was also a bit of a rabble-rouser on the utilization of women in the military back in the eighties, part of a small group of women who took on the Army when it was trying to reduce the career potentials of women. I ended up getting right in the thick of some major problems which ultimately cost the Army millions of dollars in the reassessment of units that had been given incorrect direct-combat probability codings. I was also part of a team which discovered that some of our troops had been looting private homes in Grenada. The Army court-martialed a lot of our soldiers for this violation of the law of land warfare. We used their example in rewriting how you teach the code of conduct and, actually, the Geneva Convention on the responsibility of occupiers.Francis the Talkin... er sorry Francis
Fukuyama abandoned his PNAC pals last weekend. Keep in mind that he was one of the original PNAC signatories and initially supported the Iraq invasion. He isn't real bright for an intellectual so don't expect a sensible foreign policy suggestion.
Oh, Lord, I am cracking up here! It almost makes me wish Flippant/Atropos was still around (but not really). :lol:
aren't you?
anyway, we like your new 'tonchi' character better than those two.
aren't you?
anyway, we like your new 'tonchi' character better than those two.
Thank you. I am deeply honored. :lol:
Huh? Well OK, I guess you can hate me because Mari and I are twins. Just don't hate me because I'm beautiful :jig:
