The Quest
I held a
different thread hostage for several posts and I would like to move the discussion to here.
I lost my job in December, and now The Quest for financial validation of my professional contribution to the success of some local business has begun. Like every other great quest, the Hero will be embark on a journey or effort in pursuit of a goal, often lengthy, ambitious, or fervent (thank you wiktionary).
Before I go any further, I wish to thank (in order of posting):
Sundae Girl
glatt
Undertoad
jinx
Brianna
dar512
Griff
Marichiko
Happy Monkey
Clodfobble
Beestie
wolf
xoxoxoBruce
justmehere99
limey
Brett's Honey
Cyclefrance
mrnoodle
warch
zippyt
Elspode
LabRat
and especially staceyv for finally, mercifully, taking the spotlight off me. Your support immediately following this very unexpected and frankly unwelcome news was a godsend to me. I thank you all from the bottom of my heart.
This thread has been gestating quite a while, and now it's here. I have made many posts to it in my mind, held many conversations with all of you, in my mind (you're all wonderfully compliant, polite, and supportive in these conversations :p ). But it's time to "get real", or as real as this internet thing gets.
So it has begun. And the first step of that beginning is thank you all.
Onward!
Yessir, onward! But you know, your previous posts and support and stories were what earned you that level of support back. You got what you gave, in this case. (Doesn't happen in every case.)
What did you do and what do you want to do?
Opportunities like this can take you to some interesting and exciting places.
Lest you think I am facing this quest alone in real life, I assure you I am not. I am blessed to have the caring support of a few very good friends out here in 3D land, and their contributions have proved invaluable.
In no conscious order, Steve C, Walid F, David C, Dave M, Howie K, Tim H, Mark G, ... wow, the list really does go on and on now that I try to enumerate them.
Some highlights, while I can recall them.
I was given a couple of binders of good information from a dear friend who was laid off from a local bank. The bank's program included professional third party outplacement, and the material he gave me was their documentation of the whole "get back on the horse" process. It includes many (manymany) steps. It is very thorough, and I'm about 25% the way through it. I'm filling out all the worksheets as though I'm in the self study version of their program. It has been very enlightening.
Another friend, mrnoodle, very generously assisted me in the proofing and editing of my resume. He is as professional as he is brutal. I wouldn't want him as my personal trainer--I'd collapse. Thankfully, I don't get winded as easily when I'm only exercising my yap (or my typing skills). That led to another problem, actually, and he coldly and efficiently solved it. My longish resume now has *no* surplus verbiage (is that redundantly repititious, I wonder?) Regardless, thanks to him, I now have something to distribute with confidence. I feel my resume looks very professional, and I expect it will be recieved and percieved that way too.
Many folks, trying to be helpful, offer suggestions for where to apply (at their own company, mostly) or where to look for openings. Most of these suggestions were pretty good, especially the ones that were job posting sites, a'la Monster.com.
Monster.com *is* the king of these kinds of affairs, and I've gotten a couple of nibbles from that source. Also worthwhile are:
nwjobs.com,
dice.com, **new**
craigslist.com, and to a lesser degree,
usajobs.com, and
jobdango.com.
I'm a computer professional, and I'm looking for a job in technology. This is a good location for that search, and the prospects are promising. I'll post some of the openings I've set my sights on.
Yessir, onward! But you know, your previous posts and support and stories were what earned you that level of support back. You got what you gave, in this case. (Doesn't happen in every case.)
I am touched. Thank you for the very kind remarks. :blush:
Opportunities like this can take you to some interesting and exciting places.
Quite! But right now my need for a stable cash flow far outweighs my desire for new challenges and experiences. I hear the wild calling, but am commited to deferring the satisfaction of answering that call in favor of supporting my family. Let me be clear--this is in no concievable way a burden to me. The thing I want the most is the welfare of my family. That satisfies me. But someday, that need will be satisfied with far less 9 to 5 effort from me and some of those hours will be spent returning that call.
What did you do and what do you want to do?
I am a generalist. Jack of all trades (technological), master of none. The Lone Ranger. Actually, this is quite appropriate to my most recent position. I was the whole IT department. It wasn't that I couldn't do the work, I just didn't like working alone and it caught up with me, so to speak. Look, y'all know how much I talk. I am in love with the sound of my own voice, and it sounds even sweeter when reflected off of others. I really do like some company, professional company (you. there in the gutter. out. now.)
At the last job, I ran all the technology. If it had a blinky light and a power cord, it was my responsibility. I don't mind that work, the variety can be very stimulating. I especially like helping people. Solving problems. I get a charge out of fixing stuff. And I like to talk about it, often while it's being worked out. Not in a showoff kind of way, but more in the "hey, this is cool, check this out" or "Hey! It's all ball bearings nowadays. Now you prepare that Fetzer valve with some 3-in-1 oil and some gauze pads. And I'm gonna need 'bout ten quarts of anti-freeze, preferably Prestone. No, no make that Quaker State." (thanks Fletch!) kind of way.
So I can do mostly all the stuff, I prefer a position that has contact with others, both users and teammates. Oh, and a boss that knows what he's doing. That's not too much to ask, is it?
Actually, wolf, I recently had an interview
here. They have some
rockstar gear, and (yay!) more than one person on staff supporting and maintaining the technology. One of the informal tests was to leave me in the lobby for 10 to 15 minutes so I could get a chance to be with the clientele. I did, no biggie, and the first question was, How would you handle being around people like that? No problem. I have my own personal space that can be invaded, like everyone else, but I'm a big boy now and I can take care of myself. Plus, I'm mature enough to consider the source and not make more (or less) of any given interaction. Fine, I don't mind working in a place where some of the people in the building have mental problems.
Actually, I think if that was a problem, the universe of potential employers would shrink dramatically, perhaps to a singularity. I've already decided I don't like to work alone--bring on the characters.
OK, so your habit of training people, walking them through the problems/solutions while you solved them, with maybe an extra effort to make everyone self sufficient while you were in LA, led management to decide they didn’t need you anymore? :neutral:
wow. totally missed the announcement that you were sacked. that sucks in december.
two things to remember:
talent can go anywhere
the cream always rises to the top
everything else is details.
good luck
BigV , Dude I do the same thing , train the least able to do the most , AND understand what they are doing and WHY !!! I have left the suits and ties standing in the middle of production areas befor , JUST so I was comfedent that their workers were compatant at running a new process, THEN I would go meet with the folks that spent all the money .
Have you thought about teaching classes , or joining a training company that gives training on speficic equipment or software ???
Hey, BigV!
Have you considered working for the Feds? Like for example, here's something off
USAJOBS.
Sounds like a fun job and the pay's good, too. They had a bunch of others in the Seattle area, also.
Good luck!
Lemme tell you. For years, I went from one job to another trying to figure out what I wanted to do. Scoured the net for ads. Send resume's online. Deafening silence. One Sunday, my wife asks if I checked the paper (Wash Post). I rolled my eyes and told her that nobody advertises in the paper that isn't already on the net so I checked the ads just to humor her. Found ad. Job description was perfect. Sent resume. Got call same day. Had job 3 days later. 6 years later, I'm still there. Blind ass luck but it came from not assuming anything and looking under every rock and being patient (I'd been looking for a good long while).
So the point is that you never know where that perfect job is. Could be down the street or right under your nose. Patience. Diligence. Basically, you are hiring yourself to find a job for yourself. Treat yourself as you would someone you were paying to find a job for you.
Keep at it BigV! I'm with those who say if you like people and talking things through then don't ignore the training type jobs ...
Anyway, best of British to you!
I had a thought BigV , if you are hurting for cash there is all ways the geek squad
http://www.geeksquad.com/ ,
One thing though , if you go that rout we HAVE to have a pic of you stylin in front of your geek mobile !!!
Hey, BigV!
Have you considered working for the Feds? Like for example, here's something off USAJOBS.
Sounds like a fun job and the pay's good, too. They had a bunch of others in the Seattle area, also.
Good luck!
Thank you!!
I followed that link, and I am in the middle of a rather laborious login/registration/application process.
As part of that process, I found a couple of interesting questions. The first one made me laugh out loud (yes, I know there's a smilie now. Hush.) The question, and I paraphrase, but only a little, asked "Do you have one year of specialized training OR a PhD in the area of interest?"
Ah, *snicker*, I'd like experience for $100, Alex. 1yr=PhD? Ooooookay. I hope it gets easier from here. :rolleyes:
Later, there was a good question, an essay question. Here is the question and my answer. All editing, proofing and content criticisms are invited. Constructive ones will be considered, humorous ones will be laughed at and I'll disregard the bs ones. Here it is: (yes, they end it with a question mark, not my typo.)
Question:
List the typical technical resources you use to assist in resolving problems or learning new technologies?
When faced with a technical problem, I try to gain enough information fast enough to minimize the damage. Here is a list of common technical resources I use to help me resolve these kinds of problems.
Event logs, error messages, and error logs are all useful when available. These telltales are cross referenced with system manuals, troubleshooting resources (manuals, manufacturer manuals, websites, or cds.) I also consider the input of the user that reported the problem, and I ask a lot of questions about the circumstances surrounding the situation, especially about what was going on just before the problem happened. Often, the problem I'm faced with is not the first time the problem has happened to me. If I've seen and solved it before, I should be able to remember or look up the answer using local resources, like an operating manual.
For those problems that are new to me, there's a good chance that they're not new in the world. Google has provided many links to answers to questions where I know only some of the circumstances of the situation. I have found answers in discussion groups populated by users of similar systems, or on the manufacturer's online information, or other places. These search results, combined with my own experience usually lead me to an answer. Most problems I face are solved at this level.
Sometimes, the combination of all my skill, experience and research fails to produce a ready answer. At times like this, I ask for help. The human technical resources I rely on can be other employees in the department, or in similar environments in other locations. Sometimes, I call the organization that created the system; software publishers, hardware manufacturers, and/or the designers or maintainers of the systems I'm working on. I have a personal network of professional peers and friends that I regularly share war stories with. We like helping each other, and I am active in this network, giving and recieving help as needed.
When learning new technologies, I use many of the same strategies, since as a new user of a given technology, everything unknown I face is like a new problem to be solved. "How do I accomplish this task?" "How do I make this work?" "Why does the program/device behave this way?" "What just happened?" Paying attention, relentless reading, talking with others about how stuff works and just plain using and doing and working make up the bulk of my new learning.
Certainly there are other ways to learn about new technologies. I read trade publications, I read manuals and users' guides, including third party publishers. I have attended formal training classes based on a given technology or set of responsibilities. There are self guided tutorials and paid trainers that can both be learned from. But mostly, using a given technology lets me take something new and make it something known.
Good question!
I had a thought BigV , if you are hurting for cash there is all ways the geek squad http://www.geeksquad.com/ ,
One thing though , if you go that rout we HAVE to have a pic of you stylin in front of your geek mobile !!!
Thank you!!
I do look good in a white shirt and black slacks--they set of my plastic pocket protector
fah-bulously!
I balked at the part of the online application process that asked for my SSN. :(
I consider my privacy precious and finite* and every time I give away some of it, that part is gone forever. Sometimes that part is connected to the entirety of the rest, and it could be *all* gone. :shock: This coyness is real oldskool I know, and likely a barrier to deeper and wider market penetration by my employment credentials and availability. I struggle with each application with this balance.
Hmm. Maybe I'll just screw my courage up and enter the SSN. Worries me though.
*A new thread on this subject is coming soon.
I agree on the SSn thing , I DON'T like giveing it out , BUT it shows that you are an american citizen , etc,,,,
Hey it has gotten me thru security checks going on to Gubment instalations more than once .
I was thinking about this because you were saying you enjoyed talking to folks and helping them thru tech problems , you say you are a puter wrangler so I assume you can blank a HD and reload soft ware and install printers , etc,,,
You could put an add in the local Penny shopper paper stateing that you can do this much and you would get atleast some calls , and work out of your house .
Besides you could work and look for a job at the same time .
Just my 2 cents ,
Good luck and keep us in the loop .
Whoa BigV, What LJ said. I have avoided that generic thread for some resaon. Anyway, I can't believe they'd do that to you, of all people.
I'm a firm believer in improving one's lot through fateful changes in employment. As the pop star sings it:
"every new begining is some other new begining's end". So there you go.
But as for YOUR job search: I cannot overestimate the importance of reading and following the exercises in the book "what color is your parachute".
Get the most recent edition at the library or buy it. Read it and do the excercises in it. It is more helpful than a barrel of mothers–in–law.
Truth.
This also freaks me out, because I had projected upon you, in my mind, the status of poster child for responsible, stable employed person.
A lot of the dad's in Inchling's playgroup "do something with computers" (according to their wives, ha ha) A few do IT, anyway, they are routinely training Patel to do their jobs and then being sacked because they are unwilling to live in bombay and be paid .27 an hour and be greatful for it. Then they tell me that they are thinking of becoming carpenters.
I'm not sure what this means.
Keep the faith.
A few do IT, anyway, they are routinely training Patel to do their jobs and then being sacked because they are unwilling to live in bombay and be paid .27 an hour and be greatful for it.
:headshake
If they choose carpentry they were not IT people to begin with. True IT people would choose either electrical or plumbing.
...snip...
But as for YOUR job search: I cannot overestimate the importance of reading and following the exercises in the book "what color is your parachute".
Get the most recent edition at the library or buy it. Read it and do the excercises in it. It is more helpful than a barrel of mothers–in–law.
Truth.
This is done. Well, I have a copy (2006) from the library today, and am reading it now. Wowza. Thank you.
This also freaks me out, because I had projected upon you, in my mind, the status of poster child for responsible, stable employed person.
Hey, I'm still a poster child. I just have a new poster: "If it can happen to me, it can happen to you."
I moonlight on this poster too: "They don't have to have a reason, and it can come
at any time. Be Prepared."
Keep the faith.
Yeah, brother!
It is all black here.
I'm at the nadir of my search at this point. It could certainly get worse from here, as my creditor's next billing cycle comes up dry. :(
I have nothing.
I've been slogging through the openings on Microsoft's site. 1004 positions matching my job agent's search results. I've applied to about 15 out of the first 40 so far. 1000+ jobs?! I'll read through them all and submit my resume for all the ones I wouldn't be ashamed to interview for. Some of them are definitely out of my league.
Which brings me to another question for the folks here. I have a couple of bare spots on my resume, especially in the area of Unix/Linux administration. I would welcome any suggestions that would give me a chance to improve that deficiency. I have a spare machine downstairs I could cobble together for hands on practice. I have extensive experience administering other systems so the basic concepts are already in place. Am I dreaming that to think that the bulk of the new information will be in the area of new tools and new terms to accomplish already known tasks? Or is it so alien that I'm better off starting with "See Tux run. Run, Tux, Run."?
I have another related subject I would like your input on. I have found myself several times reading the specs for a job and seeing much overlap, and then seeing a line like: "Requires xyz". Then I pass. I count myself out, don't apply. For those postings where the list of stuff I don't have is long, I think this is the right response. But for those where the mismatch is small, I have a harder time doing that.
What are your thoughts? How much of a mismatch between job posting requirements and your own experience would you tolerate and still apply? Applying to all is not practical, since I don't want to spam a given employer, and there's a real loss of credibility if I submit 1000 applications, where some of them are obvious mismatches. Plus, that's 1000 applications I have to track with follow ups, etc. What say you?
It is always possible that the lack in your skillset could be easily filled once you had the job. Not every position advertised gets filled with someone who exactly meets or exceeds the need. From my own perspective in hiring, I would rather hire someone who knew most of what I needed, but had a great attitude and willingness to learn new stuff than some dipshit who knew the drill, but was otherwise a waste of flesh.
Apply. All they can do is say no...or yes.
Its funny because Unix/Linux admin is the only non-bare spot on my resume, and I was wondering whether I'm unemployable.
Actually, BigV, I'd suggest installing FreeBSD and buying one of
these books. However, you should realize that it will take some time to come up to speed. Especially if you have no prior experience with Unix.
Thanks guys, I'll scan the library for the books for the time being.
**News flash**
My one interviewer, so far, sent me a nice message today saying that they were offering the job to another candidate.
*sigh*
In my reply to her message, I thanked her for actually telling me (it's not a given... the silence can be deafening), and I asked her if she'd consider two more questions.
1 -- How can I do better in an interview?
2 -- Having seen me and my resume, does she have any friends/colleagues/competitors with computers that need tending? And if not now, then maybe in the future.
Interestingly, the first time the lady contacted me and arranged the interview, I had a call from a headhunter at an agency. The call turned into a 25 minute phone interview. I was feeling preeeety good. But obviously the face to face interview didn't result in a job offer (yet). And interestingly, the lady who said all those nice things on the telephone never called back like she said she would. Oh well.
[cue Twilight Zone music]
After sending the reply described above, my phone rang. A recruiter. Asking (interviewing) me questions about this and that. Nice guy, Pete M, but kind of out of his depth in a technical sense. As he read from his script of questions, my answers prompted some explanations for him--"Uh, what is a VPN?" or "Layer 2 and Layer 3?" I managed to impress him enough, I guess, since he said he was going to email me a formal application.
HOLY COW!
It's really there, in my inbox. Well. This is a pleasant change from the previous trajectory. Ok, it's basically the same set of questions in the phone call and a request for my resume in Word format. Cool.
Hi P------:
It was very nice to meet you as well. I’ll go through your list of questions, and attached you should find a copy of my resume. Ready? Let’s go.
VLANs
VLAN stands for Virtual Local Area Network. All the computers in a given location could be considered part of a single network. It may be advantageous however to segregate different groups of machines into different networks. One reason for this division would be to keep machines belonging to a single group, say, Engineering or Accounting, together. This is understandable, but sometimes the physical segregation and the logical segregation are not in sync. Through the use of Virtual LANs those divisions can be established by what port they’re connected to, instead of where the whole physical network/machine exists. VLANs allow the definition of separate LANs irrespective of their physical locations. I have extensive experience in establishing whole networks. The virtualization of this process was not an issue for me since we didn’t need it and consequently didn’t have the equipment for it. All the switches I used were unmanaged. But I am familiar with all the concepts. All I’d need to do is find where the lights and wiper controls are.
VPNs
Another Virtual concept, it stands for Virtual Private Network. If you imagine that the VLANs are used to divide machines physically close together into separate networks, then VPNs do the opposite. A VPN allows a machine or network that is physically separate from another network to connect to the network as though it were a local connection. All of my work at WG Clark involved VPNs, since the jobsites were always removed from the corporate office, and always needed access to the corporate network.
Cisco PIX
A Cisco PIX is a firewall. A firewall (in computer terms) takes its name from its building construction namesake. It is a part of the structure that keeps bad stuff—fire or unauthorized network access—away from the rest of the structure. Cisco, a leading name in connectivity worldwide, has a wide range of products, and the PIX line is one of the most popular. We had PIX at WG Clark, and I have been inside in on several occasions, changing settings to reflect the changes in our network, such as the addition of new jobsites.
Cisco Checkpoint
This is a little bit of a puzzle, since both are names of companies. Cisco makes networking gear, including the PIX firewall. Checkpoint makes network gear, including the Firewall-1. I do have some experience with the FW-1 product from my days at Princess. I wasn’t in charge of the system, but I have used it, as well as other firewall technologies.
Layer 2 and Layer 3 configurations
Layer 2 and Layer 3 refer to two parts of the OSI model the data link layer and the network layer, respectively. When it comes to computer to computer communication, underneath that hard candy shell is a long list of separate elements. One critically important aspect of this conversation is the location of the computers. How to get from one to another is a routing function. If you could imagine the old time switchboards, the operator performed the function of Layer 3. By listening to the request by the caller about where they wanted to be connected, they knew where to plug in that wire on the board. Knowing where and making the connection is what Layer 3 is about. Layer 2 is analogous to the electrical impulses that make up the conversation. It also contains information about the physical unique address of the hardware. The bits, the ones and zeroes, that make up all computer language travels on Layer 2.
In the context of your question, the Layer 2 and Layer 3 refer to the facts about a given machine that would me used to define what VLAN it was a part of.
VOIP on the Cisco side
I have some experience with VOIP, on different kinds of hardware, but none on Cisco VOIP specifically. I’ve setup VOIP at home and at jobsites. It is another network resource, like email or printers or files or applications that remote users need access to in order to do their jobs. Actually, VOIP isn’t limited to remote users, all telephone users could benefit equally from the technology.
Call manager, voice gateways, Avaya PBX integration
I have experience with similar gear, using the call manager, pbx gateway and pbx switch from Iwatsu. The concepts are likely the same, but the actual software is specific to the hardware. I believe I could understand and use it with a minimum of trouble.
Well, that’s the end of your list. Sorry it took so long, dinner time around here was hectic. Anyway, I checked out your website and I saw a couple other postings I’d be interested in. How would you like to proceed on that score? Would you like me to complete the online application, just the resume, just tell you the job numbers, or wait for further instruction? Well, for now, I’ll wait for you. But if I haven’t heard from you by, say, Thursday, I’ll take the initiative myself. I’d be happy to work with you Pete. You seem like a good guy, and I could use all the help I can get.
I look forward to hearing from you again. Thanks for your interest and your help.
Yours,
name, address, etc
________________________________________
From:
Sent:
To:
Subject: Nice Talking To You
Hi BigV, (not really, j/k)
It was nice talking to you. Here’s what I need. To help me represent you for this opportunity, please provide me with a brief summary of your experience in the following areas:
VLan’s
VPN’s
Cisco Pix
Cisco Checkpoint
Layer II and III configurations
VoIP on the Cisco Side
Knowledge of call manager, voice gateways and integration between an Avaya PBX over a network
Send me this info along with a word doc of your current resume and I’ll get to work for you!
Thanks, and please call me with any questions,
name address etc
Here's the "interview". What do you think? Haven't sent it yet, but I will in about 10 minutes.
Interestingly, the first time the lady contacted me and arranged the interview, I had a call from a headhunter at an agency. The call turned into a 25 minute phone interview. I was feeling preeeety good. But obviously the face to face interview didn't result in a job offer (yet). And interestingly, the lady who said all those nice things on the telephone never called back like she said she would. Oh well.
Don't take that as rejection. It's equally and possibly more likely that they have an incompetent HR department that doesn't follow up with applicants. This tells you that the company is poorly managed, and you wouldn't want to work there anyway.
Hi BigV - just a few things - in no particular order and as I am at work at the moment hitting a quiet few mins (that may change in an instant) I may break off and take up later (also apologise for any crap spelling as not checking usual typing errors - two finger typist and I watch the keyboard and not the screen).
Anyway. First off the essay a few items back - the one thing that sprang immediately to mind was 'process of elimination' - in any problem situation it pays to eliminate the more obvious causes before going for the more obscure. I'm sure you had it covered reading between the lines, but it didn't hit me in the face the way it could have.
Another tip. I've had a few redundancies in my time - 5 and counting. I've tried change of industry/skills but this has so far never produced the result I wanted - the learning curve has been too steep and I have been shelving too much experience that eventually got me back in work once I realised this.
It seems to get harder the older you get. Trying the regular routes for me didn't work - but them I am at an age when most companies are thinking early retirement for my age as opposed to permanent position. So ad trawling turns out for me to be pure masochism without the pleasure bit.
This time around I tried something different. Not sure if it would apply to your field =, but on the surface I don't see why not. I saw an opening to offer a short-term cover service in my specialist field. It's quite difficult for the firms in the area I know best to get over absence through holidays and sickness when it happens,. So I bypassed the general employment agencies, made a relationship with those that sdealt with my specialist field and also set up a website and mail shot for the companies I kenw where i could be of service/. A bit slow to start, but I eventually hit good witha 3 week assignment when som guy went on his honeymoon followed by a return session when another guy took two weeks off. I made sure they gave me written feedback (gave them a simple form) which then stood me in good stead for the next assignement, 3 days a week for 6 weeks about two months later. More feedback - another 4 week assigmeent followed almost staright away - now I was getting a reputation. Then another three week one and then a 6 month local contract that turned into permanent employment.
Thing is that now, if it happens again that I lose my job - I will have no hesitation going the same route.
The only other point I want to make is that what ever happens do something to keep yourself sane. Worst thing is banging the head away at the same thing when there is no result/ I took a job driving a van for a guy I know who has a home delivery laundry anddry cleaing buisness - evening work so it left the dfays free, paid a little cash and kept me active and communiacting with people in general. I also helped out a pal in an antiques shop and also did my own bit of ebay antique trading as well - just to be active and to keep the adrenaline flowing.
THat's about it for now - feel free to PM me if you want to know more or specifics.
all teh best
CF
One thing I meant to add - not sure if it applies in the States but here it is rife. All too often the employer will feel threatened by someone who looks to be older and more experienced, so unless your a perfect 'match' in the employer's eyes (and by employer I mean the very person you will be working for), then you will be on the rejection list before you can say 'go'.
The advantage of the temporary-cover route is that you just don't pose such a threat. You are only there for a limited time, you are not trying to find a permament role, so the threat issue never arises. That's human nature I suppose, and I wouldn't have believed this to be true if I hadn't been the evidence.
Just got a call from some outfit called Amazon.com...
Phone interview Monday, 06 Feb 2006, 1 pm PST. Expect to last 1 hour, may be coding samples required, have resume, pen and paper handy, etc.
Here's the Job Description:
Amazon's Corporate Helpdesk is looking for Senior Support Engineers with the ability to deep dive on a process, script a tool to automate it, then handle a Senior VP needs the next. We want seasoned support engineers who can maintain pleasant demeanor under load, have extremely broad experience, who can script (Perl and/or VBS), and have a vision for what support ought to look like. Must have deep knowledge of both Windows and Unix. If you know Apple as well, that's a plus. We own a huge piece of the corporate business logic in in a highly diverse technical environment where the opportunities to learn and expand your knowledge are endless. The ability to work swing shifts on a rotational basis is required. 3+ years direct Helpdesk/SA experience is necessary
My task now is to research as much a possible about the company, the job, and the tasks described as I can. I wish to be well prepared for this interview. Support is my long suit, but I'm stressing some about the coding quiz... What could that be about? Hi, help desk? I have a problem, and I want you to write a script to fix it... Ditto the Unix support questions.Any suggestions out there? Any help desk jockeys willing to give me clue? I'd sure appreciate it.
See, this is one of those times when I shot for the 80% I could do, and I'm twigged about the missing 20%. (breathe ya dope, breathe).
That's your update. We now return you to your regularly scheduled programming.
Don't sweat the coding. I bet you can find a coding sample on the net for whatever they can dream up. Sounds like a good opportunity to me. I'd jump on it. Just tell 'em you can code anything then worry about it later. There's plenty of backup to be had. To get a job like that, they need somebody smooooooooth and confident. Make it so.
Rock on V.
PS-You'll have a much better February than the searats. ;)
Dear Beestie, Griff:
Thank you for the enthusiastic support.
Griff: Look for a new thread in the Sports section soon, just for you. :haha:
Just tell them you know all that and goats too. :thumb:
The ability to work swing shifts on a rotational basis is required.
What exactly does this mean? Three months of days, three months of nights? That would kill me.
Just tell them that you're friends with the person who keeps them in business.
(I can't bring myself to try to add up the totals of my yearly purchases. It's just damn scary. But I've been shopping with them since the beginning. If only I had thought to buy stock ...)
Just tell them that you're friends with the person who keeps them in business.
(I can't bring myself to try to add up the totals of my yearly purchases. It's just damn scary. But I've been shopping with them since the beginning. If only I had thought to buy stock ...)
I bought six books from them one year and got a travel mug, you must have gotten a cappucino machine!
Big V, Mail, in a box that has Barnes and Noble written all over it, is virtually on its way to you. Once it leaves the kitchen counter.
In the meantime, thinking of you:
To dream the impossible dream
To fight the unbeatable foe
To bear with unbearable sorrow
To run where the brave dare not go
To right the unrightable wrong
To love pure and chaste from afar
To try when your arms are too weary
To reach the unreachable star
This is my quest
To follow that star
No matter how hopeless
No matter how far
To fight for the right
Without question of pause To be willing to march
Into hell for a heavenly cause
And I know if I'll only be true
To this glorious quest
That my heart will be peaceful and calm
When I'm laid to my rest
And the world will be better for this
That one man scorned and covered with scars
Still strove with his last ounce of courage
To reach the unreachable star!
[/at a loss for words...]
Thank you.
[at a loss for words...]
BigV
YES!!!!!
Umm.. so if you get the job, will you be able to see what I've been ordering?
I mean not that it's a problem.... I really don't care, I'm just wondering.
Hi V - good luck with the job. I'm not from anything that close to the software world although I spent a few years at Reuters working with developers designing a few products/product enhancements mainly contributing from the user look and feel angle.
I was told by a software guy I know who deals a lot with ordering software, that the 'intelligence' behind the Amazon customer enquiry interface permits it to change the price offer according to the buying habits of the customer, and it's the reverse of what a lot of people would think. If you only buy, say once every six months, then the price offered is lower than if you buy regularly - logic being that if you return to buy frequently you don't need a discount inducement - likelihood is that you aren't comparing prices with other suppliers when you buy regularly so you don't need to be enticed so much. I think the info should have some merit. Best check out for yourself first though if it is something you haven't heard before.
One other thing - and apologies well in advance if this is a naive and unnecessary comment, but I'd rather state something that may be in the 'bleeding obvious' category than leave it unsaid and kick myself later for not having done so! If you're deep diving into a process, at the basic level elimination is so important. Analysis of any sort of problem is an 'if' -then' series of observations and this one of the easiest methods to use for communicating reasoning - e.g. if this is happening , and if that is working OK and if that also is happening OK then it is likely that this other thing here is most likely causing/behind/something to do with the problem - analysis then moves on to 'if/then' the 'likely cause'
All the best - will be interested to learn how the interview went in diue course.
Thanks to popular demand...
The Amazon.com phone interview went ok. I did not get the job. They were very nice, and efficient, and actually did have some follow up with me (one of the candidates not selected). That alone sets them apart by a few notches.
I fumbled one of the questions, and on another, the shallowness of my linux experience prevented me from embarassing myself on a whole list of other questions. Turns out there are only eight (!) Windows Support people in the whole group, and the rest are linux oriented. Just don't have the chops to run with that crowd.
So, I have recently applied to several other organizations. Here's a subset of them:
Boeing
Nintendo
Real Networks
Alaska Airlines
Comsys
The list of possibilities of a search I set up at NWjobs.com produced over 900 hits, and I read through them all. I culled all but about 200 and I'm slogging through those now.
Screw Amazon, you don't want to move to South America, anyway. ;)
You'll sort out your new employer from the wannabes, soon enough.
[fanfare]
I got a job.
[/fanfare]
[prayers]
Thank you. All of you.
[/prayers]
BigV!!!! welcome back sucka! i've been worried about you. I've been kind of stalking you via your last log in date for awhile.
Soooo... tell us all about it.
Well...since you asked :grin:
I have been at my new position now for about two weeks. You know that song, Henry the Eighth? "Second Verse, same as the First!" Well, this position is just like the one I left. In fact, I reckon my experience there gave them confidence that I was the right pick for them. I am the Lone Ranger again, just ridin' a different range. I have a new actor in the role of Tonto wrangling the databases, just like before.
There's been considerable culture shock, adjusting to the new tribal customs (no company provided coffee. WTF?! Have to join the "coffee club". :rolleyes: What-evah.) My commute time/distance about tripled. Don't cry. It was 5 miles and 10 minutes before. I was...spoiled. But gas was south of $3/gal back then, too, so you can get a little misty if you wish. Work is fine, pay is fair (not so-so, equitable-ish).
I got the lead from craigslist of all places. I love the internet. Phone interview, then scheduled face interview (group interview, co-owners and Tonto vs me. It wasn't fair, but I took it easy on them.) Wait. Wait. Wait for fingernails to heal. Wait some more. Get phone call indicating an offer is in the mail. Leave town :smack: . Let them wait. Respond enthusiastically to offer. Counteroffer. Agree on counteroffer. Start next morning. :cue heavenly music: Breathe.
It is a small company, family owned, and they are at that difficult in between size where they have a lot of computers for a lot of people, and the attendant needs for the inevitable computer failures and frustrations to be resolved. In general, I have a distaste for those that make the money on their on the misery of others, but I have been able to justify my work by emphasizing the good I do. But I am thankful they have problems. So are my creditors.
Speaking of which--we've been melting the credit cards, folks. Ever charge your house payment? It's a bad habit, trust me. I can't wait to pay down that mountain of debt. One. Bite. At. A. Time. I am allergic to debt. Like other power tools, it can make some jobs easier, but you can get in trouble doubledamnquick, and some of those things *don't* grow back. I don't think there will be any permanent scarring, but my new quest is to make that number go down down down.
I'm so, so happy to be working again. Work doesn't define my existence, but I do like the validation of my professional worth and we all know money makes the world go round. It's good. 's good.
It's really good to see you back in the saddle BigV.
Unfortunately, I think for me, my career defines my existence too much. It's not about money, it's about love. I need to feel the love. Seriously.
Break a leg in your new gig, BigV.
[HTML]One. Bite. At. A. Time.[/HTML] Or one byte at a time. Wecome back. :D
That is good news man. I hope you can get through the debt with minimal pain. I've always been debt-phobic as well so I feel your stress.
Welcome Back, BigV! Man, I missed you!
Congrats on the job!
Hey BigV, I knew it was just a matter of time, before you got the new job. Sounds like a good fit for you.:thumb:
cue Welcome Back Kotter song.
BigV!!! Hugs to you, and congrats. :) (we had no doubt you'd make it.)
Missed yah.
Yo, V! Welcome back and congratulations. I hear you about that big enough to have a lot of computer problems, small enough to not have the resources to fix them properly situation.
It's great to hear that things are working out for you again, BigV! I knew you had so much good karma earned after Katrina that something would be coming back to you. Congratulations! :)
Right on V!
I have a friend that also had some good luck finding employees via Craig's list.
'Grats BigV, good to have ya back.
Been away for a while, and this thread is one of the first things I check here ... congratulations on getting back into the world of work, BigV!
congratulations, V! We knew you could do it.
excellent job melting the C.C.s, been C.C. free for over ten years. You'll love the extra lung capacity, you'll feel like lance armstrong.
I'll see you around. 'been busy lately, the next month may see more time.
I got a job.
:celebrat:
Great news, V. I'm glad you're back.
Hooray! Don't worry, the debt will be back down in no time. You used it exactly the way responsible people are supposed to. You'll recover in no time.
A clarification:
wrt the credit cards--I do feel they were used in the situation when they were most needed, and mostly in a responsible way. But my reference to "melting" them was an allusion to the affect on the poor little plastic rectangle from *heavy use*. Industrial freakin use, and it was not an industrial grade tool.
I'm in the position now of having lived on credit for, say, three months. My new income isn't twice my previous level consumption, and I will have to live well below my means to retire the debt. That's the only way, of course, and I know that, and I'm really ready to do it. Looking forward to it. But I can't retire it at the rate I accumulated it, probably not at half the rate. :frown: But. I have a well established habit of paying down debt. It has been steadily diminishing since...dunno, maybe ten years. The unemployment caused the total debt level to increase, and there have been some high dollar expenses that increased the level as well (college for two, a new roof), but the number will go away.
Possibly tmi--as much as a I hate the debt load, I will not sacrifice our savings to accelerate the debt retirement. I have to save for retirement too, and there are no loans for living expenses when you're 80.
Hey BigV - congrats on the job!
Nice to see you back!
I will not sacrifice our savings to accelerate the debt retirement.
I've heard this before but still don't understand it. It doesn't make sense to me, to pay two or three times the interest you're earning, on money you owe. Unless, of course, you feel you (and yours) can't stick to a strict savings schedule to replace those savings. :confused:
Possibly tmi--as much as a I hate the debt load, I will not sacrifice our savings to accelerate the debt retirement. I have to save for retirement too, and there are no loans for living expenses when you're 80.
ALRIGHT! someone gets it. there are a lot of strategies for eliminating debt. they all require discipline. pulling out retirement funds to eliminate debt is a huge NONO. (time value of money and all that).
Bruce - if he is running at 25% interest then sure, he may want to look at alternatives, but even at 10% or so - his retirement savings is more valuable where it is at. even if he only gets 6% this year and 7% next year. staying in the market is absolutely crucial. you can't time it - you just gotta be there.
@BigV...... don't know you, but empathise.......
I was out of work for 18 months tiill last August...... too old, too overqualified, too expensive et al....
my credit cards melted too.....
Defer the day......
Bruce - if he is running at 25% interest then sure, he may want to look at alternatives, but even at 10% or so - his retirement savings is more valuable where it is at. even if he only gets 6% this year and 7% next year. staying in the market is absolutely crucial. you can't time it - you just gotta be there.
I don't know that his money
is in the market. Or that he's getting 6/7%, for that matter.
So, you're saying pay thousands in interest, for the chance to recoup it if the stock market suddenly skyrockets? :confused:
no, no that isn't what i meant. what i am saying is that having a little money invested NOW in the market is a lot more powerful than investing a LOT later. the most powerful component in successful investment is TIME. not timing, not always picking the hot stock, not getting out before a downturn - TIME in the market.
sometimes there are no alternatives, but if there is any choice at it is better to pay your debt off via the tried and true method of sending in your monthly checks and keeping your retirement funds, exactly that - retirement funds.
it isn't a get rich scheme or a screw the system system - it is just simple common sense combined with knowledge of the markets.
1) i don't know when the markets are going to have great years vs crappy years. so if i'm always in with a balanced portfolio i have no worries about missing a run up. think in terms of real estate. imagine someone sold their house in 2002 and didn't purchase right away because they were considering relocating (or any other reason). he was finally settled and stable by 2005 and ready to purchase the market had gone insane. home prices had doubled and sometimes tripled. the sorry sucker is going to have difficult time getting back into the housing market and will never regain that ground. the same thing happens in the market - just in a less noticeable way. i have client that was in Stock X. he complained that although he really liked the company and wanted to own it for the long haul he was going to sell it and buy his new car because he didn't like owing anyone money. sounds like a great plan - but now Stock X is trading 40% higher. he missed his chance.
2) it is far easier for most people to pay bills than it is to invest appropriately. i'm sure BigV is different, but most people will find something that they have to buy on a monthly basis rather than invest the money. if they keep their money invested they will without fail send the money to the creditors and pay the debt down while still watching their retirement money grow.
good financial management is quite counterintuitive. if it feels good, you'd better think again. if it feels really really crummy - you might just be on the right path.
Update:
Two credit cards have just been paid off!!! :celebrat:
Both cards were on auto-pay auto-pilot with the credit union, and so I didn't "really" see the money each month. But now that I don't have to pay them anymore, I could easily "see" the money again, and be happy for it. But.
But I still have a couple of credit cards to go. :sniff: So I'm redirecting some of the cash flow previously used to pay off credit cards A and B to credit card C. C is also on autopilot, but now I'm able to shift it into a higher gear. By the way, I did some back of the envelope math on that card... :rar: The minimum payment meant that the balance forward would be reduced by 0.1% or so. Is that legal? Moral? Usurous? I digress. I am now paying at about 3.9 times the minimum payment. This one will take a couple more years to disappear, as I have no more low hanging fruit to harvest and redirect towards its retirement. Plus I have no guarantees that the balance will only go down. This is the last card to pay off (well, the last one that's an open account. I'm still paying down another closed account :sigh: ).
I mentioned that I'm taking some of that newly available cash flow and putting it toward this last credit card. What of the rest of that cash flow? Well, I have increased (not intitiated, but increased from an already respectable number) the amount I'm contributing to my 401k account. By a lot. I expect the net cash flow to *decrease* measurably. But for the first time in my career, I'm going to be within spitting distance of the Federal maximum dollar contribution limit. It feels scary good. Well, it feels good now, I have only just turned in my form. Check with me again after a couple of paydays...
OR....you could get some really cute goats.:lol:
Two down in less than a year, way to go BigV! And congrats on the bigger 401K investment, you and your kids will both appreciate it someday.
**BUMP**
Because I only have a minute here and I will want to return to this thread for the good advice from all of you. I need it again.
I have another interview tomorrow.
Good Luck. I got a possible lead on something today as well.
Excellent! I wish you the very best luck.
I just got back from the mall. I asked BD for a favor--a ride and would she please be my fashion consultant? $450 later I have a handful of new slacks, shirts, socks and shoes. She picked them, I got to say how they felt. I have promised to wear a tie, but I told her that I'd be the only guy in the building wearing a tie. She countered that I'd be the best looking guy in the building then.... OK, I'll wear a tie. Thanks doll, I loveya!
Very good. The appearance and the extra confidence it should give you could well tip you over the line.
Interview them thoroughly. Make sure they are competent and worthy of your joining.
A clarification:
wrt the credit cards--I do feel they were used in the situation when they were most needed, and mostly in a responsible way. But my reference to "melting" them was an allusion to the affect on the poor little plastic rectangle from *heavy use*. Industrial freakin use, and it was not an industrial grade tool.
I'm in the position now of having lived on credit for, say, three months. My new income isn't twice my previous level consumption, and I will have to live well below my means to retire the debt. That's the only way, of course, and I know that, and I'm really ready to do it. Looking forward to it. But I can't retire it at the rate I accumulated it, probably not at half the rate. :frown: But. I have a well established habit of paying down debt. It has been steadily diminishing since...dunno, maybe ten years. The unemployment caused the total debt level to increase, and there have been some high dollar expenses that increased the level as well (college for two, a new roof), but the number will go away.
Possibly tmi--as much as a I hate the debt load, I will not sacrifice our savings to accelerate the debt retirement. I have to save for retirement too, and there are no loans for living expenses when you're 80.
Update:
Two credit cards have just been paid off!!! :celebrat:
Both cards were on auto-pay auto-pilot with the credit union, and so I didn't "really" see the money each month. But now that I don't have to pay them anymore, I could easily "see" the money again, and be happy for it. But.
But I still have a couple of credit cards to go. :sniff: So I'm redirecting some of the cash flow previously used to pay off credit cards A and B to credit card C. C is also on autopilot, but now I'm able to shift it into a higher gear. By the way, I did some back of the envelope math on that card... :rar: The minimum payment meant that the balance forward would be reduced by 0.1% or so. Is that legal? Moral? Usurous? I digress. I am now paying at about 3.9 times the minimum payment. This one will take a couple more years to disappear, as I have no more low hanging fruit to harvest and redirect towards its retirement. Plus I have no guarantees that the balance will only go down. This is the last card to pay off (well, the last one that's an open account. I'm still paying down another closed account :sigh: ).
I mentioned that I'm taking some of that newly available cash flow and putting it toward this last credit card. What of the rest of that cash flow? Well, I have increased (not intitiated, but increased from an already respectable number) the amount I'm contributing to my 401k account. By a lot. I expect the net cash flow to *decrease* measurably. But for the first time in my career, I'm going to be within spitting distance of the Federal maximum dollar contribution limit. It feels scary good. Well, it feels good now, I have only just turned in my form. Check with me again after a couple of paydays...
Dear USA,
Please put BigV in charge of your economy. That is all.
Z
This thread doesn't get much play, does it?
Well, it will get some play today, as I have a phone interview in a couple hours. It is for a Systems Engineer position at a local internet company. I am optimistic about this for a couple reasons. 1--Why not be optimistic. It sure beats the crap out of the alternatives, which are sure losers. 2--My friend, T, sent me a link the other day, "Hey, what about this job description, X, can I submit your resume for it?"... ??? what is this a trick question?? Yes, please, by all means, do so. We noodled around with my resume for an hour (Jeebus after all these months I **still** had a couple grammatical errors? W. T. F. ???). So, we beat it into submission, then he sent it for submission. Yay. The next day, I get an email message from the person, DG, this new hire would report to and he wants to arrange a phone call so we can talk a little bit. Oh, and it sounds like you'd be a good fit for open position Y here (also reporting to DG. I followed the link and the second one, Y, is a higher rank/responsibility/experience than X. I take this as a very good sign. He clearly read my resume, and decided/hoped that I'd be better fit for the "higher" position. By higher I mean instead of two years experience, they advertised six years experience. Instead of delivering tier 2 support, I'd be providing tier 3 support to the junior staff members who would bring me problems they couldn't solve. Leading/training junior staff, stuff like this. I am encouraged.
I've done a little googling about the fellow who sent me the email, DG. Nothing very revealing, though speaking to the person I'd be reporting to means I'm likely talking to the decider. This is as good as it gets. If I convince him that I'm interesting enough to pursue, I'll have the very potent ally. The work looks like the same kind of work I've done for decades, Computer Wrangling. This I can do.
Wish me luck! I'll report back this afternoon.
You have a positive *flair* for understatement, my friend.
I just saw this. Best of luck to you , V.
thank you thank you thank you... interview in ten minutes. I'm very nervous and excited.
AAAuuugh!
What a feeling! Fabulous! BV! :thumb:
Congratulations !
Your colleague, T, also gets Congrats for being a good friend.
Holy Crap! Thats awesome!! !! !!
...
Hey, me again.
Some explanation about that previous post.
I don't believe in jinxes, so I risked a bold prediction. They *will* hire me. It was a phone interview with the person who will decide, and it was about a half an hour of me talking about how I can do or have done the things he has on his plate. It was entirely favorable. "Well, that sounds really good." "I agree." "I've done that a couple times at X and Y." "So you have that experience, that's good." repeat repeat repeat... By the end of the call, we were practically making out. Metaphorically speaking.
There is a very good match of what they need to get done with what I have done. There is considerable overlap in what they're looking for in non technical terms and what I'm looking for in company culture. To my amazement, he brought up the subject of salary requirements near the end of our talk. This felt kinda like getting to second base on a first date. This was another area of agreement, what they had to offer and what I am expecting to be paid.
The last part of the conversation was DG saying he would pass on my information to their HR department so they could begin to process my paperwork. Another good sign I feel. Sure enough, twenty minutes later I get a message from the recruiter fellow DG said I'd hear from. We have arranged to meet/talk this week. Things are moving forward as though each party wants to make a deal.
I am very excited, but the literal truth is that I have not had an offer tendered to me. I believe they will make one, and soon. That will be fucking awesome.
Just finished second phone interview.
It was short and sweet. He verified some details about my experience, the job description, my salary expectations, etc. He closed with by saying that the next step is to schedule some in person interviews, what is my schedule like, timing, etc. He told me to expect to be contacted by the scheduling administrator (or some title like that). I suppose I'll have this next round of interviews within a week, pending the availability of the people in their office.
Continuing to move forward, gaining momentum. I'm still excited!
***
On a different note, same subject, the office for this outfit is downtown. I live north of downtown, still in the city. Blah blah blah, what this means is that I won't have to drive on the freeway to get to the job. I could take the bus, or ride my bike. This is much more appealing when you consider that parking my car downtown could cost as much as $300 a month... compared to a free bus pass. I am very happy about the prospect of not having to be a bridge rat anymore!
Excellent. Your last commute sucked, IIRC.
Good news!
I just received an email (and a followup phone call) from my prospective employer scheduling my in person interviews. I will come into their office Monday afternoon. There are four interviews scheduled with six different people over the course of two hours.
I've already spoken with two of them, each one in one of my phone interviews. I'll do some googling of the other four names to see what I can see, I'll shave, get a new shirt and a shoeshine... print up a few copies of my resume "just in case". I know where the place is (heh, you guys do too, I might have posted a picture here. I'll look for it.) and where to park. I'm really, really excited!
Good luck V. I'm sure you'll dazzle them.
Wow, this all happened really fast! Good luck to you!
Hi friends. Sorry for being silent on this matter lately. I don't have any news at all. Monday's interviews went very well, I met seven people in four interviews. It was quite favorable, there were two kinds of questions, technical pop quizzes of a sort, what is CAT5, what is a Global Catalog, etc. and interpersonal style questions, how do you handle competing priorities and deadlines, how do you use your presentation skills to convince a group of people about a technical subject, etc.
I believe I met most of the team I'd be working with, including the director of IT, the main decider, in my opinion. He was very friendly. I *think* he wants me (not like that), but I don't know yet. I asked when I'd know, when they'd know and he said he had one more person to interview, that was yesterday. He said they'd have a decision by today or Thursday.
The hours have crept by.
I came home from the interview, had a sandwich and promptly fell asleep for six hours. I was exhausted. I told them I want the job, now it's up to them. I'm stiiiiiiilllll waiting. :)
BigV, I wanted to reach out to you let you know that unfortunately we will not be extending an offer at this time.
We appreciate your interest in XX and will keep your information for future opportunities.
Thanks
grrrrrrrrrrr ... Very sorry.
That sucks !!
Or i bet the other canadate had Bigger Boobz than you did ;)
damn man. I definitely know the feeling. keep on chuggin' bro. it *will* happen for you man. if i can get a job back in my old field given my past, you have it a lot easier than i did. hang in there sir!
Well... I'm as over the rejection from XX as I guess I'm gonna get for now. *sigh*
In other news, I have another phone interview scheduled for 9 am on Friday. I've exchanged several emails with the recruiter, including filling out her phone screen form. I'm pretty excited. The position hasn't been posted yet, but she has my resume. I guess that means she thinks I'm a good candidate for the job. We'll see.
I know a little about the company and I'd like to work for them. But not knowing what the job's about puts me at a bit of a disadvantage.
You can do it, dude! Hoping for the best for you!
thank you thank you thank you! check with me at 0930 tomorrow.
Pointless.
The recruiter was pre filling pre screening potential candidates for upcoming, but not yet published positions. They may be published as soon as this time next week, but nothing now.
Disappointing.
Sorry V....
It seems we are living parallel situations on opposite ends of the country.
Was supposed to work this afternoon - just called him - nope.
Also, another FT position which I was led to believe I was in line for, fell apart.
I was removed from contention. Apparently I am over-qualified... AGAIN! :mad2:
phone interview yesterday went GREAT
phone interview today went terrible.
yesterday was with internal recruiter, today was with hiring manager.
back to the crying about the interview. I was writing the post when I got snookered by some fucking bill collector. fuckingfuck.
...
anyhow.
I could do the job, the job description is very similar to my last job. but this one just went horribly. I don't think I got anything wrong, but the vibe on the call was cold, curt. ended quickly. no connection, y'know? He seemed to be getting all the answers he needed, and they indicated this is a dead end. fuck, I'm so sad. I need a job.
I wasn't quite prepared for the first question, and I should have hit it out of the park. "I see you were the IT Supervisor at xyz company back in... June 2011. What have you been doing to keep current in IT?" Then I blathered on (truthfully) about the time off being something of a vacation at first, then my "job" was getting a job. Then when I reconnected my (stupid ill-advised free association monologue instead of a canned) answer to his original question, I realized that I hadn't given him anything about me staying up to date with IT, no, just hanging out here at the beach, blah blah. dumbass. I realized my foolishness and was chastened, but not before I could shut my mouth, and I said, as my brain was spinning up some connection to his question, "that's a good question, I hadn't been prepared for that one" (fires bullet into mouth). Then I gave some weak shit how I'm the go-to-guy for my circle of friends and family when it comes to computer questions, example this and example that, see? I do this work even when I'm not being paid, ha ha ha.
and kinda downhill from there. fuck.
I don't know how downhill, I did answer the other questions, are you more of troubleshooter/problem solver or designer/architect? pretty easy, troubleshooter. why? I'm good at it, I like solving problems, puzzles. I like fixing things, and the other part is I like helping people. It's a good natural fit for me.
"What is your number one tool in your toolbox?" Another easy one, my observational skills, my ability to listen. If I had technical skills, they're useless unless I know what the user needs or wants.
then questions about dns, group policy, and cloud backup. we're done, click. no actually, he was polite, there was a tiny acknowledgment of my answers/examples on the last one when I spoke plainly about how important a user's data is relative to applications or hardware. It wasn't ALL crickets chirping on his side, but they only stopped to let him respond enough to indicate he heard my answer and move on to the next question. I asked about the next step and the timing, he said they'd move by the end of the week.
At this moment, I feel I'll get a thanks but no thanks email, it may well be in my inbox now. drinking heavily seems to be my next move, but I am really joking. ha. I need to apply to another five ten twenty places, and just get these kind of "bad dates" out of my system, or so in my system that I don't get crushed by the rejection. Of course, that's easier said than done. Maybe I'll start with a drink after all.
[/pity party]
Well, at least you got to talk to them. I've yet to get any responses from applications even with inside referrals.
Most likely they've gotten a thousand applications for the job, with 900 of them not remotely qualified but faking it. So if he seemed cold, it maybe he was tired of talking to fakers. Your first answer may have put him off a little but it sounds like the rest would convince him you know your shit.
Of course he may have been short because he knows he has to do all these phone interviews knowing full well the job is going to Thurson III's nephew. Don't assume if you don't get it, you blew it, there can be other shit at play.
Keep plugging, you got the skills, just have to find the right fit.
best of luck, BigV.
I know how shattering bill collectors can be....gives me the shakes just thinking of them.
If you undertook your quest in this car, it would be puzzling.
Well, I heard back from them, which puts them in rare company. Sadly, they chose the most common answer.
Just wanted to follow up with your regarding the Systems Engineer position. P enjoyed talking with you but has decided to move forward with other candidates that are a stronger match for the requirements of the position.
This part is not getting easier. If it were, I would be doing it more. Yes, yes, I know this is a personal problem of mine, for me to solve. Dammit.
Sorry to hear this, V. Hang in there.
Sorry dude. Don't get beaten down.
One hour panel interview tomorrow at nine am.
Good night and good luck.
Go baby, you can do this. :cheerldr:
Go baby, you can do this. :cheerldr:
Yes, yes I can. In fact, I did. I think I hit it out of the park. It went a little long, the two guys on the other side of the table seemed relaxed and happy and engaged. There was a back and forth, a conversation which I take as a good sign.
Good luck!
Thank you!
Good luck today!
This I will take for tomorrow! Because I have a second interview with the VP of IS and the Supervisor of IS tomorrow at 10 am. I get a big, unsettling shock of adrenaline when I focus on it, even when I'm typing this post.
Nervous, I'm nervous.
The first panel interview seems to have been something of a screening interview. I think they were looking for ... "personal fit" or some other such soft quality. They weren't part of the IS structure, and all the questions were non technical. I was the first interview of the day, and by 1 pm the same day, I had received emails indicating this second interview. I find this good evidence of making a good impression. I asked them how many interviews they'd done, and when they told me I was the first one, I suggested that they could just stop now, give me the recommendation and that I wouldn't let them down. We all laughed.
One reason I'm nervous is that this is the technical assessment of my suitability. Crunch time. I honestly believe I can do this job (not in my sleep, but ... anyhow. I can do this easily). However, as part of the screening process, I took four tests online. I scored 88, 82 and 86 on the first three and 49 on the last one. fuuuuuuuck. I am kinda miffed about the online testing anyhow, but, ok. But some of the questions were just pointless. The core subject matter was Windows 7, and unfortunately for me, I don't have a lot of screen time with Win7. And several of the questions were syntax based. Not having the actual hands on with that means that I am reduced to guessing. Not that guessing is bad, because misspelling a command line parameter or putting in and invalid switch really isn't a big deal. That's what we have what I like to call "books" for. I look that crap up if I don't have it memorized. This wasn't allowed for the test, but in the real world, I look up stuff.
I made this point to my first interview panel, and they didn't know anything about the tests, so I wound up kind of "telling on myself". I gave them the justification you just heard, so it was good to be able to rehearse it. We shall see.
Thanks all for your good vibes!!
*GOOD VIBES*
If you have time today, go do something like a bike ride or chop wood or something; it will deal with that adrenaline spike.
it's a real physical sensation, like cresting a hill in a rollercoaster. la la la la whoooaaAAAAaahhh wheeee!! omg... holy crap.... whew...
I feel it in my core, in my teeth, in my arms and fingers. it's just a few seconds, maybe... ten or fifteen at the longest. But I get a fresh jolt when I come back to it. Last friday riding in the elevator with my escort the HR recruiter, it felt like a carnival ride. Then, MERCIFULLY, it passes when I'm in the room. It's all about the anticipation. My greatest hope is that it won't paralyze me from doing something crucial, like... getting in the damn car, getting out the door in time.
Ha. Last Friday, the eight mile trip from my house to downtown where their building is took over forty minutes. Multilane arterials the bulk of the way, downtown streets for the last ... mile. agony. I got there on the dot. Tomorrow, I leave at the same time. Because the interview is an hour later. I can combine the adrenaline with caffeine across the street at a coffee shop. Maybe have a donut to sugar it up a bit.
I'm pretty excited. thanks for the good vibes!
Good vibes and good luck! And congrats on the first panel, sounds like you hit it out of the park for sure. If it comes up, you can always frame the Win 7 issue in terms of strength - you're a quick study and use available resources to work through new material, kind of thing.
Good thinking, giving yourself an hour's leeway for travel. If you do the caffeine thing, go light ... you want the increased focus but not the shakes.
Yoga breaths. Slow your pulse and get some sleep ...
Good luck BigV! I am confident that you will land this (or a) promising position.
2nd interview is big, going over on time is big, fit screening is big. My company doesn't bother with any of them if you aren't a serious competitor for the position. And in a company that cares about it's employees and wants to retain them, 'fitting in' is vital.
I'm sending positive vibes your way!!
For the past few months I've been on the other side of the table for the first time in my career. It's so much fun.
Remember, they are on your side. They like you and they want you to succeed.
Thanks again to all of you.
I have been in the coffee shop for 45 minutes now. Gonna go into the bldg now. Here goes!
Any updates?? Pulling for you-
The second panel interview went very well. It was short. I met with the VP and the Supervisor of Information Services. I was asked mostly soft questions, about how I'd do stuff, how I'd handle potential conflict, what challenges I'd face during xyz upgrade. I demurred on that one and suggested that since I didn't have a lot of screen time with xyz, I could answer his question about challenges and how I overcame them with abc. He accepted my changed question. What has been my greatest accomplishment? I said I don't rank them but one that I am proud of and that was very helpful to the company was the introduction of help desk software at my last employer.
Then, the IS Supv asked me the name of the product and I turned into Rick Perry.
...
...
I checked my resume to see if I could find the name of the package... nope. I said, I can't remember the name of it at this moment, but I'll find out and get the answer to you. It was a little embarrassing, even though it was about five years ago. Anyhow, happy ending, fifteen minutes later I had remembered it and folded into an answer to another question the name of the product, along with my apologies for the brain fart.
They say they want to have an answer within a week or two since the new employee orientation (which must be completed before anyone can start) is at the beginning of November.
Now I wait and worry about my credit check. Yes, a credit check. I don't know what my credit score is, I know in the past it has been abysmal. I don't think I'm doing much to improve it partly because I don't fucking care and partly because I'm living my life without credit, my house note being an exception. I don't have anything to fear from the background check. I'm just ... waiting. Augh.
A credit check ... I know, how insulting. And if you live your life without depending on credit your score is lower.
Sounds like you did great, V. The wait is tough ... but sending good vibes, crossing fingers and toes for you!
I hate being out of work. I hate the (so far) endless rejection, it's wearing. I've recently been rejected again.
October 31, 2013
Dear V,
Thank you for your interest in the Help Desk Technician (IT Specialist 3) position at the Dept. of Transportation. Unfortunately, the position has been filled and at this time we are no longer accepting applications.
We wish you the best in your job search and encourage you to visit careers.wa.gov for other employment opportunities that may be of interest to you.
Sincerely,
(name redacted)
Dept. of Transportation
Human Resources
206-555-1212
[email]EmailName@wsdot.wa.gov[/email]
Fuck.
V - have you registered and posted a resume on dice.com? That's where I got most of my hits when I changed last year. You get a lot of head-hunters but I didn't mind that. Just don't promise to be exclusive.
Damn. Sorry to hear this, V.
Good morning friends.
Today I got an email from a local company telling me that she'd gotten my information from the employee referral program, and that she liked what she read. She asked me to send her some times and dates for when we could talk together to see how good a fit I'd be in their organization.
**swooooon**
She included a document for me to fill out as a prescreening tool, and asked me to send it back to her before we talk on the phone. I replied to her message saying let's meet up next week. I said I'd complete her document and send it to her separately. The acknowledgment has been sent, and now I'm completing the prescreen.
The bad news is that I'm not aces on all the things they ask me to rate my experience with. Several of them are zero and that kinda freaks me out. The freakout passes though when I realize I can just do my best.
Gah. STRESS.
Congrats, V, hope it pans out.
A coworker says her cousin is doing well with virtualvocations.com.
Is this about a job, or some sort of dating thing?
Thank you all for your good wishes. I am very happy to report that my success in the first interview has led to a second phone interview, this time with the head of the department (where I'll be working (hopefully)) and a member of the department (a peer (hopefully)). This second interview is scheduled to take place 45 minutes from now. I'm nervous and excited.
In the first interview (with the internal recruiter) things went very well, and she said she liked what she'd heard. She said the only red flag was my response to what I've been doing to keep myself current. In my field, IT, some skills are perishable. Not only does one get rusty with disuse, but the demand for some skills become less (my training in COBOL is of interest to only a handful of people on the planet these days, I reckon). More specifically, my experience with Windows products is somewhat dated. The work deals mostly with Microsoft Exchange 2010, some MS Exchange 2013 (only in beta now). Well, 2003 and 2007 are the editions that I last earned my scars from and some things have changed.
I should say that the job is for a front line help desk person specializing in messaging. Well, that's the kind of work I like, the kind of work I'm good at. I'm good in an emergency, I like helping people, fixing things, solving puzzles. And I'm a dab hand with technology. I'm articulate, friendly and observant. If you have a problem with your computer, I'm a good guy to call. But the specific editions of the technology *are* new to me, the tools for managing them are new to me. But not all the tools are new. Dividing a problem to conquer it is the same as it ever was. Network diagnostic tools like ping, tracert, nslookup and ipconfig are not new, network concepts like Active Directory and Global Catalog Servers are not new. I am familiar with these and they're still in wide use, score +1 for me.
....
I'm nervous. I started the post and said 45 mins to interview time. now it's 18 mins. I'm gonna sign off now, and try to center myself.
WISH ME GOOD LUCK!!!
I've been there too often as well.
best luck buddy!
Hope it's going well, or went well!
well, it worked. I didn't cry or pee my pants.... so, I got that goin' for me.
...
55 mins later, I have a couple pages of notes, the interview was with a peer, one level more experienced than the level I'm interviewing for. He said "I could tell you were nervous, excited at the beginning (since I said exactly that... :/ ); did pretty well" I asked what could be better, and he said knowing the exchange roles by heart, instead of relying on my notes would make a difference. (exchange roles? ad roles?) Also being able to whiteboard the mailflow from outlook-send-outbox-world-inbox would help.
he said he'd pass on his notes to the recruiter, and that's who I'll be hearing from next, either way, in a few days.
It was O-K. I don't think I crushed it. He was nice, polite. Probably nice to work with. He didn't reveal any discernible excitement about talking with me, or the prospect of working with me. None that I could detect anyhow.
.....
*sigh*
another week of fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuucking stress.
in other news, I have an application in process at the county, and received a message the other day saying that due to the large number of applicants for the position, processing my application would be delayed. that's great, better than "NO", and better than nothing at all.
I'm gonna take a break. I'm exhausted.
Postscript
thank you, all of you for your support and good wishes, I really appreciate you.
pps. since this is a post, would it really be a postpost instead of a postscript? um, yeah. I should probably go lie down or walk around the block. :p
I've been away for a couple of weeks, sorry I didn't see this before now ... V, I wish you the best. I hope you hear from the last interview. Waiting is hard. Wishing you a good outcome from all of this.
An update, from my email an hour ago:
Hi BigV!
I just was updated on your interview and we’d like to have you come in for an in person!! I knew you would impress them!
Give me call and we can get something on the books.
C**** N**** | Senior Consultant
Calling now.
I'm ***
so STOKED!!!***
Good luck, matey!
Sent by thought transference
Great news! Good luck, V!
Nice to see some good news!
Interview is in 3.5 hrs. I'm very nervous and excited!
Good luck!
Sent by thought transference
BEST. INTERVIEW. EVER!
I asked them at the end, "how do you like me?"
Answer: "I'm sold."
Second guy: "Everything he said."
*SWOON*
I'll hear within a week.
I hate waiting [/inyigomontoya]
Holy fucking awesome, Batman.
Sounds like a belter of an interview, V.
I got a message this morning asking to setup a time for a fourth interview.
still nervous, relieved though to **finally** hear from them after the third interview. That was a long twelve days with no feedback.
I'm glad you got another interview, but wish you had gotten a "Yes" instead.
Thanks!! Me too man. But it won't be a "yes", even when it's a yes, it will be the opening of negotiations. They'll make an offer and I'll consider it. Then I'll make a counter offer and they'll consider it. It probably won't go much further than that, and the subsequent counter counters will have smaller and smaller issues. But there are issues, like starting rate of pay, which shift, prearranged vacations, starting vacation accrual rates, signing bonuses... I can't think of any others, but there could be.
I've learned that however much they like me, and they clearly do, because it's unlikely that they'd have put so much energy into checking me out if they didn't *want* me to be the one to solve their problems. Granted, it's a buyer's market out there. But I will **never** have more leverage with them for large or discontinuous jumps in compensation (money, time, perks, titles, etc etc) than I do the day and hour before I say "yes". I'm aware of that.
At my last position, the first offer they made me was ten thousand dollars a year less than my counter, which they countered in turn. We agreed on a number eight thousand dollars a year more than their first figure. There's no way I'm gonna get an eight thousand dollar a year raise in my annual review.
In this case, they're already angling to learn how open I am to working nights. I strongly prefer days, but not so strongly that I'd rather be unemployed. Of course, it all depends on the offer. The actual schedule is already ... unusual. I'd want a shift differential of some kind to become a creature of the night. Like I said, negotiation.
4 interviews! Jeepers Kittens.
Hopefully you'll be able to get most or all of what you want, BigV. It seems like you are a good negotiator.
What is the normal amount of interviews?
So. This was yesterday.
I called her, as she asked me to in her email, to setup a time. I called her at about 9 am today. I got her voicemail. Left a message, "call me!". Called again at 430 pm. Same thing. grrrrrrrrrrrrr..
So, this morning, I called, AND SHE ANSWERED! (honestly, it takes *so* little to make me happy, hmmm?) and my interview is scheduled for 1 pm Thursday, he'll call me. I made sure she also has my mobile number just in case.
yeesh.
slang, I don't know how many interviews are standard, four seems like a lot. On the other hand, I applied at a local financial institution, and got only two interviews, and no offer. I wonder about that since I could **easily** have done the job AND I did very well in the interview, good rapport, good vibe. But, I signed a release for a background check and credit check (marginally justifiable for an outfit like them... I guess) and I reckon they found something there to disqualify me. There's been no similar request from this outfit. Regardless, they wish to press on, and we'll see what this guy wants from me. He's the hiring manager, so... I want his approval, to say the least.
It's been a a while since we hired anyone, but back in the day, there would be two interviews, scheduled during the same visit, for entry level jobs. And normally three interviews, scheduled over two visits, for a more senior job.
At Mr. Clod's employer, there's one or two screenings by phone, and then an all-day in-person interview event where you get interviewed by at least 4 or 5 people from various levels and departments.
done.
forty minutes, it was all positive. Now, he says he'll forward his notes to the recruiter and that I should hear from her by tues or wed next week.
What I know so far:
I like this company, I like the people I've come into contact with. I have a friend who works for the same company, different section. He's given me much background, talking about the company and all of it has been good. I do want to work, I want to get paid. ... I think I'll compile a semi-formal pro/con list. There's no offer yet, so I can't evaluate that, though the recruiter did say at the outset a salary range (or was it an hourly range??? it was expressed in dollars per hour).
More waiting.
I have some long deferred retail therapy I want to indulge in.
done.
forty minutes, it was all positive. Now, he says he'll forward his notes to the recruiter and that I should hear from her by tues or wed next week.
What I know so far:
I like this company, I like the people I've come into contact with. I have a friend who works for the same company, different section. He's given me much background, talking about the company and all of it has been good. I do want to work, I want to get paid. ... I think I'll compile a semi-formal pro/con list. There's no offer yet, so I can't evaluate that, though the recruiter did say at the outset a salary range (or was it an hourly range??? it was expressed in dollars per hour).
More waiting.
I have some long deferred retail therapy I want to indulge in.
What you need now is a nice, relaxing cup of tea. And a blow job.
What kind of tea should I bring you? :D
Teas, teas, teas.
You're mean.
Teas, teas, teas.
You're mean.
You want coffee instead? ;)
Teas, teas, teas.
You're mean.
You want coffee instead? ;)
Maybe he's a hot chocolate guy?
Coffee, tea, or ... ?
Surely this is an offer you can't refuse, V.
Sheldon has the ability to drift a thread topic into a blowjob proposal regardless of how serious the original thread topic may be.
And drifting the thread in such a way that it's funny. :D
I hope this works out for you V. The entire interview process sucks.
Have you stopped looking while going through the interviews with this company? Just curious.
Hi slang. No, I haven't stopped looking, but the process is bursty, making progress in fits and starts. Right now I have only one other active opportunity. There are some weeks where there are no active applications. Two at once is a bit of a glut.
I am at maximum hopefulness with this one (like I have been before).
So, no email at 8am. No email at 9am.
It's going to be a long week.
But, I signed a release for a background check and credit check (marginally justifiable for an outfit like them... I guess) and I reckon they found something there to disqualify me. There's been no similar request from this outfit.
Similar request? For a release? Bwahahahahahaha, we don't need no stinkin' release. ;)
right. you're just a barrel of monkeys, aren't ya?
today's the seventh day since my interview... tick. tock. tick. tock...
tick.
...
If after the close of business today there is no reply, I'll send up a flare. 'Hey, what's the holdup?'
Think about it, all this time and all these interviews, they're digging deep. Probably know more about you than Twil. Anything buried in your flower bed they already know about, so that's OK, because you're still in the race.
You're right, xoB, of course. They wouldn't be taking so much time to compose a rejection letter.
It's still an agonizing wait.
Hard to believe when they get to the anal probe it will actually be a relief. :haha:
All this and then you'll end up having to go to work...
So, twelve days of silence since our last communication proves to be the limit of my patience. I sent a polite request for an update and got a reply. Today is the meeting with management and she'll "let me know EOB".
*sigh*
Everything I have two of is crossed. OUCH!!!! :eek:
There is the possibility the recruiter/contact was assigned the task of finding someone for that position with the disclaimers, no hurry, when you can find time, after you fill those critical spots. So getting all the people to sign off on it is more difficult without being able to nudge them with the authority of priority. :ipray:
Yeah, this is a reflection on them, not on you. But it still sucks when you are the one who is waiting.
If they don't now give you the post, I think you are legally entitled to firebomb their office.
Ooooowch.
Perhaps I will fart in their general direction.
However, I think today is the day I'll hear, and I think I'll be made an offer. Hope springs eternal.
Well hurry up and get the job, dammit! My nuts are turning blue!!!
:D
Well hurry up and get the job, dammit! My nuts are turning blue!!!
:D
I would if I could...
Meanwhile, you well know, I'm sure, that blue balls, however frequent, are merely temporary.
Complete radio (and every other kind) silence from the company and their representatives today.
Such a sad waste of optimism on my part.
Devil's Advocate: What possible reason could there be for this delay? If they were waiting for some background check, wouldn't they say so, blame another party?
Is it possible they offered the job to someone else and are keeping you hanging on in case that doesn't work out -they turn it down or fail the drug test?
Let it go, move on, and then if you do get the offer, you'll be in a better emotional place to start the negotiation process you seem set on.
But what do I know.
Another possibility is that the incompetent upper management there is afraid to make a decision about taking on another employee. That's how the management at my firm is behaving, and it's also in all the newspapers that it's going on all across the country.
Maybe it's just a matter of waiting for management to make the decision to go ahead and fill the position.
I'm fairly down on business management these days. They are sitting on all sorts of cash and not hiring.
You know a lot monster. That's a good approach.
I still think they liked me, companies don't go through the hiring hassle (minus the hiring) for entertainment. I think they intend to hire; maybe, hopefully me.
The aggravating part was to be told I'd hear "EOB", then crickets. That's preventable in all regular scenarios. Just send a note, "hey, still waiting on xyz, haven't forgotten you". Not so tough.
Thanks to all for your concern, I appreciate it and you. :-)
V, I'm sorry they're screwing you around. It's something to consider, should they come up with an offer ... maybe it's good to be aware that they operate this way.
In the meantime, I concur with monster.
**bump**
I don't even fucking remember what that last interview was about, but since they (still) haven't offered me a job, I guess having moved on is OK.
In more recent news, I start my new job [strike]tomorrow at ten o'clock[/strike] last week.
Yup, I have a job. (I started this post a little while ago, but was distracted/exhausted and didn't return to it until now.)
...
Juuuuust giving you all a moment for that to sink in.
Ok, time's up. The story on this one is kinda weird. Or not, maybe it's a normal story and my experience, or lack thereof makes me unequipped to reconcile the events that have led up to this point.
A couple weeks ago, I took my car into Jiffy Lube to get the oil changed. I could change it, sure, but it was raining and I'd have to buy the oil and the filter and blah blah blah. I decided to just treat myself to letting someone else do the work this time.
***
I keep meaning to update this thread and find myself either too tired after work to do so, or too rushed in the morning to do so. Fine. Some update is better than none. More details to follow, assuming I'm not too distracted/rushed after work.
"After work", I like the sound of that. :)
Oh, so you got a job shilling for Jiffy Lube on the internet. :haha:
Seriously V, congratulations, and I wish you many happy paydays to come.
Excellent! Looking forward to the next instalment.
Glad you're busy man, beats the alternative... usually.
Damn ... totally forgot..
Congrats!
/\
YAY! What they all said! :)
I admire people that can just up and have a conversation in a Jiffy Lube that leads to a job, because that is not me.
I've been on the job for a couple weeks now, and I've made several observations from the first day. Let me share with you what I've noticed and learned about this job.
First of all, it is GREAT to be working again. I was out of work for a long time, and at first I appreciated the time off, I NEEDED some time off. But finding work in 2012 and 2013 turned out to be hard for me and for a lot of other people. In my previous professional life, I rode herd on computers all day long. This job's a lot different.
As I said:
Ok, time's up. The story on this one is kinda weird. Or not, maybe it's a normal story and my experience, or lack thereof makes me unequipped to reconcile the events that have led up to this point.
A couple weeks ago, I took my car into JL to get the oil changed. I could change it, sure, but it was raining and I'd have to buy the oil and the filter and blah blah blah. I decided to just treat myself to letting someone else do the work this time.
Working to get a new job really is work, but the pay sucks. So does the seemingly endless stream of rejection. It wears on a person. No, no, no, no, silence, no, more silence, no thank you, no, more silence, followed by lots more silence interrupted occasionally by more rejection. Fuck. I'd become one of those "discouraged workers" occasionally mentioned in the news, had become one several times. I'd try, look up jobs, apply, hear "no thanks" or nothing at all, repeat, repeat.... anyhow.
I was on another upswing in effort and enthusiasm and for me that means talking to the people I meet about looking for work. I work it into the conversation. And I did so at the counter as I was paying my bill after the oil change. "So, are you guys hiring anybody?" Just by habit, just routine, like a fisherman makes cast after cast after cast. To my surprise, the fellow ringing up my sale said "Yeah, we are." When I walked to the car, I was greeted by the manager who asked me "So, you are looking for work?"
"Yes, I am."
"Are you good with people?"
Hm. Yeah, I am; some of my favorite people are people. "Yes, I love working with people."
"There's a lot of standing." he said as we stood there in the driveway.
"Ok, I can stand." Duh.
"Here is the website." and he rattled off some longrunonsentenceurl dot com.
"Ok, thanks!"
And I drove off.
Twil and I had a nice weekend together. On Monday morning at about 8:30, the phone rings and it's the guy from the oil change place. "Mram fum rum dab biffl rab." Whaaaaat? Why is this guy calling me? Is there something wrong with my car? A recall? Huh? "Excuse me, what did you say?" "I said, where is your application? We don't have your application."
Oh.
I'd just gotten my oil changed on Friday afternoon, and this was early Monday morning. I told him I'd been away from the computer over the weekend, but that I'd get right on it. "Ok, thanks."
Man.
I looked up the website. It turns out that like a lot of companies, JL had outsourced the application and screening of job seekers. The "workforce management solution" is provided by the [strike]robots[/strike] people at
Peoplematter.com. Cheery sounding, no? JL is a customer of theirs, and JL has undoubtedly crafted their own kind of questions and tests that would (hopefully) suss out from the applicants the ones that would be a good fit for JL. The application was tedious, but not particularly difficult. I was taken aback by the online intelligence test. I don't have any other description that fits better. Just now I can't find the parts of the peoplematter website that I checked out that gave potential customers a sample of what they could ask of and divine from the applicants. The test I took gave strict, explicit warnings that the test would be limited to seven minutes. I got through five of the seven pages. There were lots of kinds of questions, math questions, which symbol is next in this sequence questions, rearrange these words into the most sensible sentence questions, how many times does the letter "e" follow the letter "j" in this sequence of letters questions, etc., etc. I *guess* they got some answers about me from the results of my test. I guess. The hiring process I experienced this time is easily worth a whole thread of its own, but for now, back to this particular job.
I completed my application, I eventually was contacted to arrange a drug screening test. Funny thing... after I'd been working for a couple weeks the topic of being short staffed and the difficulties of hiring people came up when I was talking to the manager, the one who gave me my two question interview. He said he was having trouble finding people who passed their background checks/drug screening. He speculated, or revealed, it's not clear, that many people were failing the tests for having marijuana in their system. I said that's very interesting, since recreational marijuana use is legal in Washington. I asked him how evidence of the use of a legal substance is grounds for disqualification, and he was unable or unwilling to comment further. When I mentioned this to Twil, we speculated for awhile, and the most reasonable explanation I could imagine is that the parent company of JL is a nationwide outfit, and that marijuana use is not legal nationwide, therefore, a (???) federal background check (manager's phrase) would indicate failure. This still doesn't make sense to me, since there are lots of state laws that the individual stores clearly obey, irrespective of the nationwide law, minimum wage, for example.
Anyhow.
Apparently I passed both my background check and my drug screening, because I was asked to come in on a Monday. I came in, was introduced to the district manager who watched me watch a ten minute video on a tiny window on the computer in the office, sign a paper saying I watched the video, then I watched him leave. That was my first day of work. Starting the next day, it was about eight or nine hours a day. My first paycheck had over eleven hours of overtime! Very, very short staffed. I noticed, **after** the day I got my oil changed and had my two-question, one-minute interview, that the store put a sandwich board sign on the curb saying "NOW HIRING". I saw the same sign at another JL store a mile away. I feel like I asked the day before this hiring push was advertised. I feel like I "jumped the line", kinda. Not in a bad way, but that I accidentally caught them at the time when they felt the need to hire most acutely. I didn't realize what leverage I had at the time, and frankly used none of it. But they were clearly desperate for more labor.
As part of the hiring process, I spent a lot of time online with the indifferent robots at peoplematter. I have a couple dozen pdf files representing my hiring package, I e-signed for all of them and more, my W-4, my I-9, my xyz and my pdq, whatever. I never spoke to anyone not in that store, except the district manager that one time, at video camp (really, it was kinda ridiculous. The video was all about the UN symbols for hazardous materials. A little explosion for explosives, a skull for poison, a flame for flammable, etc. That was it. Eleven little pictograms in diamond outlines and their little picto-biographies.) The hiring process on this job was surreal. The combination of a handshake deal with the owner and the funhouse version of a buzzfeed.com personality quiz/intelligence test. Seeing how the operators of businesses have ceded to computers the part of the hiring process that **I** previously knew as the part where you demonstrate to the company in several ways your style, your ability to communicate, your willingness and ability to follow through, your accountability and punctuality--those don't appply at JL, and I think they don't apply at LOTS of places anymore. Showing up, calling, demonstrating, physically, the ability to connect with the outfit... that's all morphed into a cyber version, like fucking TRON. It all happens inside the computer. I don't have a lot of experience in that universe.
more later.
They probably decided that recreational drug users make bad employees. They don't need evidence to back up that opinion because they are the boss and recreational drug users are not a
protected class.
Congratulations on sticking with the job search and getting this job because you were constantly searching.
They (the employer) probably couldn't give a shit, they're trying to satisfy insurers.
I've been on the job for a couple weeks now
:eek:
:doit:
[Quote=BigV]
I've been on the job for a couple weeks now
:eek:
:doit:[/QUOTE]
THAT, is not a job, it's a labor of luuuv, and a different thread entirely.
"On the Job" is a British euphemism for That
So I gathered, thank you urbandictionary link.
well excuse me for trying to be helpful because your post looked like you didn't understand that. Enjoy your job.
I thought calling you "urbandictionary" was a compliment.
so much for ... nevermind.
well excuse me for trying to be helpful because your post looked like you didn't understand that. Enjoy your job.
Thank you for your help. I didn't know that particular idiom, so I looked it up and made that conclusion based on the context and what I saw from the urbandictionary I linked to. I appreciate the help, really. :)
UPDATE
I am still working at the oil change outfit.
Yesterday I got an email, an unsolicited email, from a local recruiter seeking to fill a position at a locally headquartered, globally dominant coffee company! The recruiter attached a copy of the job description and a brief paragraph asking me for my contact information so we could talk about the position, if I was interested. I was caught completely by surprise. Stunned, really. It appears that the recruiter got my information from Indeed.
I replied this morning with my contact information and a clear indication of my interest and an invitation to call me. We shall see.
The job description matches what I've done several times, setting up new stores and remodeled stores, making sure the LAN and WAN access is in place as well as the POS systems. Plus solving all the problems along the way. Easy peasy. When I worked at the cruise line, I set up several sites like this at our hotels and gift shops.
I'd really, really like to be making more money. I'm not against my blue collar work. It's honest work, and there are lots of things about this job I like. Some aspects of this job I LOVE. For example, working local is unbeatable. I can get from home to work in less than ten minutes and never get out of second gear. No toll bridges, no freeways, no HOV lanes, no hassles. Priceless. And I did recently get a raise of $1.50/hr, which is not nothing... but still it's just minimum wage, $11/hr. It's not enough to float my boat.
Back to the coffee operation, it's been an hour and three quarters and still no answer to my reply. **sigh**
Cool beans.
Beans. Coffee. Get it? See what I did thar? Didja? Huh?
I hope it work out for you, V. In the meantime, patience.
new interview with new company in ten minutes.
think hiring thoughts, willya?
I thought you liked your job, are you looking for more money?
xoB--I do and I am. $11/hr just ain't cuttin it, esp with a 37.5 hr *HARD* limit on hours, and overtime is forbidden. They'll just send you home, and work with a short crew.
Griff, thanks!
fargon, she said she'd call me today. during the interview I got zero "no go" signals from her, it was all interested, enthusiastic, leaning into conversation. We'll see.
Yeah, sounds like the present job is severely limiting. You're not even making enough to buy a gun so you can rob a bank. Good luck
H/T Winning!
We would like to extend an offer of employment to you...
I wanted to get this email to you since it is the start of the weekend, and hopefully this news will make it better. I will definitely be in touch with you on Monday August 3, 2015 and provide you with more details regarding new hire orientation. If there are any questions or concerns please do not hesitate to ask.
Woo Hoo, Happy Dance, BigV's buying.
:band::folks::celebrat:
Great news! Congratulations.
:jig:
I've just formally accepted their offer! I'm stoked!
Their offer came in at the highest end of their advertised range, and they offered it right away and in their first offer. And I accepted.
We're still getting acquainted, and one of the things I learned was that when they said the shift began at 7:00 am, what they mean is show up at 6:30 am for the safety meeting, *then* everyone starts working at 7:00. I'm just fine with starting early (really, more of a lark than an owl), plus it gives the remains of the day for anything, from more work/overtime to weekday chores since I'll be out and about when things are open (like the doctor's office or credit union and other things not open late). Starting early is great. But I probably need to start going to bed earlier.
Very good, knock 'em dead. Starting that early you can catch 'em off guard. :haha:
UPDATE
I've been at the concrete company for just over two weeks now. I got a message late yesterday saying I was to come into the office (distinct from the shop and the yard) to meet with the GM. I thought it would be so they could issue me my own keys and codes and cards, etc., stuff the drivers use to do their job. Nope.
I sat with the GM and he said they've found someone else they like better to do this job.
It's being recorded as a layoff so no impediments to my drawing benefits (lol, how much benefits will I have accrued after 12 days of working ffs.).
I got *zero* actionable feedback on why this decision was made. Zero. And that upsets me. I thought I was getting the hang of things, driving the big truck (a Freightliner FL60 flatbed), getting to know the crews, the jobsites, the routine. I wasn't ever late, I didn't dent anything... No feedback. Well, there was that one time at band camp where the superintendent thought I was slacking, but I was really sitting on the ground pulling nails out of the stakes around the below grade forms for an exterior slab. I talked to my project manager about it (and at least three other people) and the upshot was that that superintendent is super picky, not to worry, "I only trust what my people tell me", etc. Ooookay. So I tried to get some learning from it, and I learned that it wasn't that big a deal. And then a week later, they've "found someone else they like better for the job". Whatthefuckever.
Talked to Twil, commiseration. Talked with former boss at the car lube outfit and my exit paperwork was to be completed today. I got there in time to keep that from happening, so I'll be back in the pit as soon as Friday. The pay will still be inadequate by about 50% or more, but it's better than nothing.
More later... I guess. I hope. Now I've got some daylight free time to rerestart my job search.
*sigh*
Concrete?
What happened with the coffee thing? If it's any of my bidniz...
Coffee company.
The recruiter was very enthusiastic, we corresponded, then, nothing. Crickets. This of course is not uncommon. But coming after exchanges and acknowledgments, that's kind of unusual. So, I finally got in touch with her again, and asked, hey, wtf? I probably used my indoor voice and vocabulary, but that was the upshot of my query. She said, sorry, the project has been suspended, (don't call me) I'll call you when it is restarted. *sigh*
That's believable, that's typical. An idea for xyz calls for some logistical organization, some resource gathering, some data analysis, etc., etc. It maaay be that the resource gathering was what I experienced when the toe-bone said to the foot-bone and the foot-bone said to the leg-bone and then I got a call. But by the time the project rose to the hp bone, bzzzzzzt. Stoppage. No backbone, no project (or whatever). Regardless, those resources that had begin to be assembled are now superfluous. So communication with me was stopped. Nevermind that *I* was counting on it, pfffft.
Aaaaaannnnnnyway.
I have a friend who works at the coffee company and my friend did get me the name and contact info of the person at the coffee company who was/would be likely to be the person heading up the (suspended) program and I will now contact him. Seeing as I'm free and all these days.
Sorry, V. That sucks. Especially when they won't tell you what you did wrong. You probably didn't even do anything wrong. Just one of those things. The guy's nephew needs a job or something.
Somebody they liked better, sounds like somebody with suck, like wife's, cousin's, nephew's, kid. Otherwise, wouldn't it be, somebody better suited, or somebody we feel can do the job better? But if so, why couldn't give you a reason why they feel you weren't doing the job as well as expected?
Sorry V, but at least you have a safety net while you keep looking for that fortune 500 CEO position. ;)
guy's nephew needs a job or something. . . . wife's, cousin's, nephew's, kid.
WTS^
sorry bro.
Oh geez, sorry to see this, V.
I'm scheduled for a 30 minute phone interview this morning.
It's with a privately held networking business, installing and maintaining computers, networks, services, etc. I'm excited and nervous, as usual. I've thought about telling you guys about this ahead of time, or after the fact... there's a thought that telling after lets only congratulations or sympathies follow on, rather than the (unavoidable) setup of telling in advance and then ... and then.... and then!!!
Yeah. I'm overthinking it.
This position is for a technical support specialist. I can do that, I've done it professionally for years, I've done it as an avocation for even longer. I've done it for some of my friends here on the cellar. The actual things they've listed in the rather extensive job description are aaaaalmost (only two of them are meh, not much experience on my part) all things I've got on lockdown. The actual work (I believe) is right in my wheelhouse. They've described the job and I think I can do it. Now, I need to convince them of the complement, that this job they know about, well, I can do that. And I'm confident they are open to being persuaded, since they've read my resume and have invited me to an interview.
What comes next is the personal connection. (I realize this works both ways, I have to decide I like them as a company, too). I have to convince them I'd be a good fit in their workplace.
**deep breath**
Here goes!
Thank you!
It's all over now.
After a fifteen minute late start of a thirty minute interview. :rar:
He apologized, I accepted, we continued.
He asked me about my current gig and why I wanted this job (his advertised opening). This was an easy question and I segued from the first to the second easily. Then he asked me about my current manager, who figured in my first answer. Another easy question. This led me to believe that he was listening to me, not just reading a script of questions--a good sign I believe. Then a (stock sounding) question about how I handle(d) difficult customers. Another easy question. And a final question about what happens when my technical solutions don't work. Another easy question.
Then, the end of the interview was ... unfortunate. He said "I have three problems--no, one good thing and two problems. First, I've enjoyed talking to you. I'd like to schedule some more time to talk again. Are you available for about ten minutes today? And my battery is literally dying as I'm sitting in the parking lot of my next customer. Which is my appointment now. <pause>".
I said, "I work today until seven, so I don't think we can do it today."
He said "Can you hear me? V, helllo? Can you hear me? Hello, hello???"
aaaaand that's how the interview ended. :facepalm:
So I immediately called his office and left a message with his office manager outlining the circumstances of the end of our call, emphasizing that I did not hang up on him (yikes) and here's my contact info, yes, let us please reconnect sometime soon. Thanks for passing my message on to him.
So. Once again, I'm in the position of waiting for a company to call me. *sigh* I don't know what I'm doing wrong to be in this situation which I find so uncomfortable so frequently.
Anyhow, thanks for the well wishes. I think the interview went as well as it could have been expected to go, despite the unfortunate ending. I think I'll hear from him again, I think we'll eventually meet, and I think he'll offer me the job. Then I'll have a whole new basket of problems to solve, good ones.
And now, he's just called back as I have to leave to work.
...
We agreed to finish the call, but not EXACTLY RIGHT NOW. He did say that I was not in danger of losing the position because I can't talk right now, that I deserve to get to work on time too. Nice touch.
And another nice touch... I told him that I also liked talking with him and that I'm looking forward to being part of a well-functioning team. That I liked what I'd heard from him, that A, the office manager, sounded like a very nice and organized person, a good team. He replied thanks, and that he believed that no customer will ever have an experience with the company that is better than the employee's experience.
*blink* *blink*
Wow. That's a very appealing thing to he from the lips of the owner. That the employee's experience is something that matters... Wow. I've been lots of places where the attitude was completely different--where there was opposition between management and labor, hostility even. This is not that.
As I predicted, we'll be in touch again. And y'all will hear about it here.
c-ya!
Glad to hear it went so well!
second interview commencing in five minutes
goddammit.
the first phone interview (he was to call me) started fifteen minutes late.
this phone interview (he is to call me, again) is now eleven minutes late.
...
Not happy about this.
He called.
Twenty-five minutes after the scheduled start time.
*sigh*
so.... all in all, it was a good conversation. If either of us has to be chagrined by being late, twice, I'd **much** rather it be him than me. We talked, and the upshot was that I got invited in for a face to face interview. This interview will not be with the whole company (it's small enough though) but just for a meal this Sunday.
I was pleased to hear a couple things from him. He said he hadn't asked me much in the way of technical questions, and that's a boon to me. Those kind of questions can be very tricky, like a test, and I sweat them. My thoughts on much of that kind of question, like a word problem for tech support geeks, is that I might know it off the top of my head, but I might not. And if what I think I know and try doesn't work out, in the interview, I've gotten it wrong. But in the tech support *real world*, it doesn't work and I simply try the next thing, even if I have to look it up.
He said he'd rather have someone who's a good fit with the team, someone who was interested in learning and documenting what's gone on, rather than someone who knew a lot of stuff but was hard to work with. THAT'S when I felt I had the job.
I'm pleased, kind of excited, and looking forward to the next step, this dinner meeting.
Congrats V! Next step is a good thing.
Sunday's meeting turned into a Friday afternoon interview. It was probably an hour long, pretty casual, and included positive sounding notes like "do you have any benefits requiments?" and "presumably, you'd need the accepted two weeks?" and stuff like that.
I asked when he intends to make a decision and he said he wanted to talk to my references, first. I took this as a good sign.
Excellent, hope you live long and prosper. :thumb:
Congrats. You certainly earned it!
Frikkin awesome, V !
Well done. Hope it's fun and lucrative.
Good for you, sir.
Well done!
Great news!
Sent by thought transference
I got the job.
This is awesome.
:cheerldr:
The job starts in twelve hours. I am moving right now, literally changing my residence.
Remember back in the day when moving meant you would be without internet service for a couple of days? This world is so strange.
Wow, BigV moving is a huge change. You've been there for a long time.
What is your new home like?
All the best, V - moving and a new job, lots of change. Good luck with all of it.
Good luck in both the new positions ;)
Sent by thought transference
Wow.
How big a move are we talking about, V?
I don't recall anything about where this new job is.
Good point. I assumed it was local, but if it was really local, he wouldn't be moving, would he? So it has to be far enough to make moving worth it. For me, that would be an hour or more.
Yah, assuming this is good times!
I'm just thankful he didn't ask me to help. :haha:
Remember this?
I'm scheduled for a 30 minute phone interview this morning.
It's with a privately held networking business, installing and maintaining computers, networks, services, etc. I'm excited and nervous, as usual. I've thought about telling you guys about this ahead of time, or after the fact... there's a thought that telling after lets only congratulations or sympathies follow on, rather than the (unavoidable) setup of telling in advance and then ... and then.... and then!!!
Yeah. I'm overthinking it.
This position is for a technical support specialist. I can do that, I've done it professionally for years, I've done it as an avocation for even longer. I've done it for some of my friends here on the cellar. The actual things they've listed in the rather extensive job description are aaaaalmost (only two of them are meh, not much experience on my part) all things I've got on lockdown. The actual work (I believe) is right in my wheelhouse. They've described the job and I think I can do it. Now, I need to convince them of the complement, that this job they know about, well, I can do that. And I'm confident they are open to being persuaded, since they've read my resume and have invited me to an interview.
What comes next is the personal connection. (I realize this works both ways, I have to decide I like them as a company, too). I have to convince them I'd be a good fit in their workplace.
**deep breath**
Here goes!
Then this:
I got the job.
Now this:
I was fired from this job yesterday afternoon with about ten minutes notice.
I got paid for Thursday (which is today) and for tomorrow and he paid me for my 15 hours of accrued PTO. He let me clean out my drawer and copy some personal files from the computer. My login and email access was terminated in the middle of the process. He said, "No animosity with this, I like you. We're going forward with the team without you." A very close repetition of his words. I was too stunned to remember it verbatim. He had shooed the other people out of the office so it was just him and me... what, in case I made a scene? He permitted me to offload some files and get a box for my stuff. I gave him back the key to the door and the 2FA usb key for online access to most every other thing.
He said I'm available in the future... For what I asked, for more talk, y'know. He asked if there was anything I wanted to say. I thought and said I like to think before I speak, so nothing at this time. I asked him if there was anything else he'd like to say and he said no. I shook his hand and said I like you, too. Then I left.
It's been almost 22 hours now and I'm a little less stunned, ... still pretty stunned.
I've setup a little office on a card table here that will be my new workspace. I have a computer and internet access, food, shelter, etc. No income, still have bills. Twil assures me she isn't going to fire me. My kids, all the kids have been sympathetic.
It bugs me that no reason was given. Ha! Worse than that, "I like you" was what he said, then he fired me was what he did. The aphorism "Words speak louder than actions" comes to mind when there's such a dramatic mismatch.
Anyhow. I'm still processing it. I have a list, an actual list of stuff to do. Getting my new office up and running was important to get done early, as it enables several other important better sooner than later steps. Steps like applying for unemployment, applying for jobs, etc. But checking in with my good friends here is also important.
I read through this thread... man. I must be doing something wrong but *fuck* if I know what it is. I wish I did, I'd stop doing it.
He fired you after 4 years by saying he likes you?
That's the most messed up thing I've heard in months, and I've been paying attention.
Anyway, I feel for you. I got shitcanned at my last job with no warning whatsoever, for things that had nothing to do with my performance, or even to do with me at all. On the plus side, I never had to go back to that dysfunctional clown show ever again.
Biggie, that is B.S. and I'm sorry this has happened. It sounds like this person wasn't the decision maker. Is it possible he was saying "for more talk" because there was something he couldn't say on the premises, where people might hear?
Might be worth a more private call just to ask, was it something I did or said? It's possible that someone another level up just wants their cousin in that job, or there was something else personal involved somewhere else.
I have had it with these small companies that can pull this kind of thing at any time. Big cos have policies and stuff, they have a system of warnings and stuff...
Biggie, that is B.S. and I'm sorry this has happened. It sounds like this person wasn't the decision maker. Is it possible he was saying "for more talk" because there was something he couldn't say on the premises, where people might hear?
Might be worth a more private call just to ask, was it something I did or said? It's possible that someone another level up just wants their cousin in that job, or there was something else personal involved somewhere else.
I have had it with these small companies that can pull this kind of thing at any time. Big cos have policies and stuff, they have a system of warnings and stuff...
You're not wrong. I always felt most secure working for a giant company.
Hi UT
The person in question is the sole owner, the guy who hired me. There were no people to hear, the office had been evacuated. Well, that's a little dramatic. I leave at 4 pm, at 3:53 I got a slack message to come see him "after I've buttoned up" everything. The office manager also leaves at 4 pm, she left a couple minutes early, not uncommon. The new guy whose schedule is until 5 pm *did* leave a little before 4 pm, undoubtedly at the request by the owner.
So it was just him and me, I came towards his office and he said, no, I'll just pull up a chair out here. Then boom goes the dynamite.
Thanks for your support, I do appreciate the sympathy. Big companies have endemic problems, small companies, like this six-person operation have their own idiosyncrasies too. *My* problem is that the balance of power, economic power I mean, not personal autonomy or agency, is never in my favor. I don't have anything "they" would be willing to negotiate to keep or avoid.
Luce--thanks man. I appreciate the sanity check. I pay attention too. When I took this job and one of the most exciting prospects was working with a team minus drama and politics. Which had been true, riiiight up to the last moment when it wasn't. So.
I'm gathering my required info for my unemployment application ---> over there and occasionally clicking back to this tab for the fellowship of my friends. There are some cool things out there I can do. Twil's told me of some that are listed in a Federal Hiring Event at the Puget Sound Naval Shipyard, which is just down the street from me. On the way to dinner I saw "Accepting Resumes" on the marquee of an insurance business. Something will turn up. I do have skills and it turns out my availability just opened wide.
I know it's hard, but I definitely wouldn't overthink the reasons behind it. If you'd been fired within a few months of starting, then sure, I'd say you probably were not living up to some expectation they had (realistic or not). But after four years? That's not a personal failing, that's something out of their control. Maybe it's finances, maybe it's just greed ("I can force Employee X to also take on BigV's responsibilities and pay for just one person instead of two,") or maybe it's something even stupider, like his wife found big gay bear porn on his computer at home and she wants you gone.
You've gotten through crap like this before, and you'll get through this crap, too. Just keep yourself focused and refuse to wallow in it, right?
[CENTER][SIZE="5"]Right[/SIZE].[/CENTER]
The main thing is to wait and not give the company 1s on Glassdoor and Indeed until you have found your next gig.
It's the best recourse we have, because fuck them
<pink elephant>
definitely not thinking about recourse
</pink elephant>
$10 says he asks you for either free work or help "lining a few things out" within 14 days.
Send him a rate card if he does.
Also, google Jacobs Engineering. They're always looking for competent networking folks. They used to be CH2M.
The good news, they're a giant company, and have people in damn near every county in the USA, as well as Europe, etc.
The bad news, they're a giant company, and the right tentacle never knows what the left tentacle is doing. They have all the hidebound tropes covered.
Also, they'll low-ball an offer, but if you ask for more, they'll usually cough it up.
I would not suggest them as a career, but if you need income right now, take a look at them.
Initial reaction -he/company's in the shit financially and cutting you makes the books look instantly better.
My company is going through that right now (making finances look better artificially ...for prospective buyers in our case, regardless of effects on operations). December, they stopped giving hours to any sub-part-timers, week before Christmas they were all informed they had "involuntarily resigned". As people jump ship, they are not replaced, regardless of how essential they are to the team.......
Head up, keep treading water, something useful to grab will float by soon, and even if it's just a large turd, it can help you reach something else.
Well that sucks. :eyebrow:
At least in this current business climate they don't seem to be as concerned about how/why you left the last job, they're all aware it's use 'em and discard 'em game.
Don't spend a lot of time or effort retaliating, one or two small mail bombs should be enough. Just move forward, that's the best revenge.
Head up, keep treading water, something useful to grab will float by soon, and even if it's just a large turd, it can help you reach something else.
This lady gets it. Good luck man.
Hmm. Reckon I'm joining you..... learned this morning our main supplier stopped delivering to us over the weekend due to unpaid bills (a "third-party invoice processing error"). Then this afternoon notice of a mandatory all store meeting 7am tomorrow. This is happening in all stores at the same time. After the mandatory store directors' conference call two hours ago for which they only got a couple hours warning. mmmmm.
Let's see how "Trump's economy" treats us. I start work Wednesday.
Hmm. Reckon I'm joining you..... learned this morning our main supplier stopped delivering to us over the weekend due to unpaid bills (a "third-party invoice processing error"). Then this afternoon notice of a mandatory all store meeting 7am tomorrow. This is happening in all stores at the same time. After the mandatory store directors' conference call two hours ago for which they only got a couple hours warning. mmmmm.
Crossing my fingers for you.
Confirmed. Store is closing. I should be one of the kast to go but will still be only a week or two
The 2020 recession is on, apparently. Good luck to everyone.
Well, that sucks. Sorry monster.
I'm just worried about health insurance now I'm sole provider and all three kids are students who rely on it. Also I won't be able to have a much needed vacation
Fukkit. Just caught up with this thread. Big V, and Monster - what a bummer, each!
Here’s hoping something better than a [emoji90] turd floats by you for you to grab asap.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
The 2020 recession is on, apparently. Good luck to everyone.
This may just be the Cellar Recession. I'm not sure how indicative the three of us are. Don't the economic numbers still looks like very slow growth?
I just hope my paperwork clears the gubmint website so my new employer can charge for services.
Here’s hoping something better than a [emoji90] turd floats by you for you to grab asap.
:lol2: Dammit, woman! :lol2:
Damnit. That's a lot of job hunters.
That sux, Monster and BigV. We be Praying.
I'm just worried about health insurance now I'm sole provider and all three kids are students who rely on it. Also I won't be able to have a much needed vacation
Sounds like you've got involuntary vacation. Just don't lounge around eating bon bons. Go get a job that you're not sure you can do. And do it. You're a survivor. You're gonna win. You have leadership qualities and battle scars. A real woman. Be choosy. You're an asset. Ask for more than they offer.
:lol: thanks. I wanted a voluntary vacation. To finally go back to the UK after 18 years. And see my girl play polo for FSU. With my 40 hours PTO I just reached after cleaning out my account taking PoloGirl to Florida and getting foot surgery this summer ....so I would get paid and so would my insurance while I swanned about. now my PTO is being paid out on Friday.
But at least I didn't Involuntarily Resign. like the 40 part-timers we lost last month. Right before Christmas.
I do really need a vacation, though. Oh well. As you saw I've been networking my ass off on social media all night and have had a few requests for my resume/CV so we shall see.... what I shall ask for more of if someone offers is Paid Vacation. Two weeks is inhumane.
It's an American tradition. I negotiated 3 weeks vacation and $150/wk for travel expense when I started.
Now, after15 years here, I get.... 3 weeks. And I can't ever take more than one at a time. Most years I end up selling one week, or taking the 3rd week in one or two day long weekends. Nature of the business. There's only 2 of us, so when I'm out, my counterpart has to endure a 70+ hour week.
Anyway, my point is... When you demand higher compensation, you create value. Playing a little harder to get makes the employer re-assess you. Another candidate may take whatever they offer, and just be happy to have an offer.. But you're not just some candidate.
Go into your interviews with the mind set that you are interviewing THEM. And be mindful that you will never have the leverage you have in that moment once you work for them. If you forget to ask for it during the hiring process, they will never give it to you. Be it vacation, salary, whatever.
Your kids have been raised well, they're prepared to take on the world. Now it's about you going where you want to go and taking what you want to take. Devour to survive. So it is. So it's always been.
Oh hey BigV, how's it going your end? Did you call the guy to see if you could get some insight as to why?
Hi monster--
I was just thinking about you. I'm sorry about your situation, I can understand the frustration of having these new circumstances thrust upon you. It's shitty.
I have a lot of confidence in you. You're smart and capable and energetic and motivated. I'd hire you.
As for me, I don't have your flair for networking and I suck at self promotion. I have made a small amount of progress developing my resume to reflect my most recent position. This is something that has to be completed *now*, this morning, so I can use it to followup on job applications so I can submit my unemployment claim--and to get a job, because, duh.
I have a bad case of writer's block, amplified by my tendency toward completeness. This is not a good posture for the task. I know it is just the worm on the hook to lure an employer to bite and invite further contact. Saying that out loud helps some... The whole process is a slog compounded by the fact that I am angry about having been ambushed like this. No, I still don't know any more about the circumstances that led to his decision than I have already shared. I definitely haven't contacted him, though I've had conversations with him in my head.
Speaking of my head... it's pretty fucked up right now, with occasional brief periods of a good attitude. I like those and they're where I get...
am I being distracted from my serious mental unhealthiness? These flashes are where I've been able to get a little flow in my writing and my organization and my employment progress. I don't know. I'm suffering, I'm stressed, it's fucked up, I'm fucked up, I'm not doing well, I'm worried.
I'm having a helluva time getting a firm grip on my bootstraps.
back to the fucking resume.
You’re good at speaking highly of others. Maybe try changing the name on the top of the resume to Tim Smith and write about how awesome that other guy is. Fool yourself into writing about him. It’s not you.
I don't have your flair for networking and I suck at self promotion. .
I most certainly do not have a flair for it. I fucking hate it. I also suck at self promotion. What has helped me is career counselling. I found a free service offered by the university of Michigan, and they helped turn my down played volunteer positions into a killer bullet-pointed "single-handedly-cured-the-world" kind of resume. have you looked around for any career counselling services near you?
You’re good at speaking highly of others. Maybe try changing the name on the top of the resume to Tim Smith and write about how awesome that other guy is. Fool yourself into writing about him. It’s not you.
absolutely this.
Also try taking the piss out of yourself. Imagine you are a puffed up narcissistic whatever and write a resume for yourself in that character. Then go back as yourself and just rephrase it in nice person language. Or have someone help you do that
OK! Good work team!
Resume version 0.9 has been completed. All that remains before publication is this final walkthrough to correct the punctuation problems, a couple other tpyos and to remember to delete that last page where all the crud accumulated. Save a local copy in addition to the cloud copy. I really should proof it again, have Twil proof it again because I know damn well I can lick my own elbow better than I can proof my own resume.
I'm going to make my deadline. It's going to be version 1.00, but it will be handed in, pencils down.
Back in a couple minutes.
I have a bad case of writer's block, amplified by my tendency toward completeness.
Then write it complete with all the detail that lets you move forward. Then start paring it down to what everyone says it should be, even if you have to enlist help to ruthlessly do that. Someone(s) else can prune it but only you can write it.
Waste of time? yeah, probably, but slow progress is better than no progress.
1000 people laid off
Correction 2500 nationwide
Professional proofreading services available here free of charge.
He said, "No animosity with this, I like you. We're going forward with the team without you."
He said I'm available in the future... For what I asked, for more talk, y'know. He asked if there was anything I wanted to say.
It bugs me that no reason was given.
I must be doing something wrong but *fuck* if I know what it is. I wish I did, I'd stop doing it.
No, I still don't know any more about the circumstances that led to his decision than I have already shared. I definitely haven't contacted him, though I've had conversations with him in my head.
I could be totally off base here, but I feel he was trying to let you know that he wanted to tell you the reason but couldn't in that time and place. It might be worth your while trying to set your anger aside and call him to see if he can shed any light on it.
If nothing else, a bit of closure, but perhaps also a bit of confidence going forward in your new job search, because at the moment, the not knowing and feeling there must be something you do wrong is impinging your ability to "be the best you" -you have a niggling self-doubt there that you're going to do the same thing again. Even though the chances are there's no such thing and you have just had some shit luck.
I hope that made some sense :/
It did to me, hopefully it will to him.
When a person is involuntarily terminated from their job, they typically ask at least two questions if the answers haven't already been provided by the employer:
Why am I being terminated?
In some states this affects eligibility for unemployment compensation; because, you can't get it if the employer claims you were fired for misconduct. Termination for other reasons is essential to know when a prospective employer asks why you left your last job; so, they don't assume the worst.
What reason, if any, for my departure are you going to give prospective new employers when they contact you to verify my work history and departure standing?
Regardless of company policy, which may be to only verify your employment period, additional information about you may be passed on through off-the-record phone calls from prospective employers to your previous employer.
Not thinking to ask these questions at the time of termination is understandable since that can be a shocking experience causing distraction.
Not pursuing the answers after regaining focus is typically due to the person thinking they already know the likely answer and not wanting confirmation of it (they're in denial).
The thing is, there's always a chance that they're wrong and there's too much at stake to not find out for sure.
Does this leave an opportunity for a competent grocery? A co-op or another small market?
Hard to say. Local market may be saturated.
Gotcha. Be serious about networking, you have a shit ton of contacts through youth sports use them. This last time, I finally just asked people for help finding a new gig and the most unexpected person came through.
I observed two evaluations for Early Intervention services yesterday. I think I've made a good move. It turns out I just love the little dudes and they usually love me.
Schmoozing at an "informational interview' tomorrow. Got my outfit together. I HATE THIS
Good news Griff, sounds like a good move.
Monster, because you hate it you'll work at it and do well.
Schmoozing at an "informational interview' tomorrow. Got my outfit together. I HATE THIS
Most people do. Hammer through this part by focusing on optimism.
Fingers crossed for both of you, monster and V.
I think it went really well... I was horribly apprehensive. She suggested the opening I was already applying for -as was hoped but I thought too optimistic because it seems a bit of a reach to me- and told me about another opening coming up, a few more places to check out, offered an introduction to someone I should talk to next and suggested the best ways to get my stats skills up to date -checked every single box and then some :D
Since these two fine citizens are available, they should both run for congress.
Tonight for the first time (in this chapter) I feel like I have my shit in one sock.
I've completed two weeks worth of unemployment claims, though I haven't been paid for any of them, so I feel like I have a little rhythm for that process. And I have seventeen postings to apply for first thing in the morning. I have a cover letter I've been happy with in the past, updated with current dates and details.
And importantly I've successfully bludgeoned my twin demons of perfectionism and completism into submission. I can, I HAVE, submitted applications that were imperfect and incomplete, so fuck you self destructive inner voice!
I will crank out some more in the morning, and improve on the product ON THE WAY, AS I GO..
Yes, I shout at myself sometimes.
Don't forget the winter you danced for Chippendales in your resume, it will make them curious and you seem exotic. :yesnod:
There's a boy! Keep after it.
Oh, and deck building skills. :thumb2:
Don't forget the winter you danced for Chippendales in your resume, it will make them curious and you seem exotic. :yesnod:
You're thinking of Chris Farley--he used to be mistaken for me a lot. Love the energy though.
GO TEAM CELLAR GO!
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Tomorrow will be my last day. Ready to move on but ugh
Tomorrow will be my last day. Ready to move on but ugh
Power to the people!
Stick it to The Man!
That's what their employers said. :(
It's never too soon to take a long hard look at the fuckery going on all around us.
And as long as I'm being the heretic, pointing a finger at no one here, there's this.
You could always do a parody of it, like Weird Al Yankovic does with songs, maybe something like Our burps and farts are with you.
At least it wouldn't be threadbare and trite.
I know for a fact that prayer works. When I gave my soul to Jesus I was physically moved the most intense body rush I have ever experienced. And I hadn't smoked or drank anything in a week. I was clean and sober, and everything just opened up I now have peace in my life, and my life is awesome. And I owe it all to regular prayer.
Tonight for the first time (in this chapter) I feel like I have my shit in one sock.
I've completed two weeks worth of unemployment claims, though I haven't been paid for any of them, so I feel like I have a little rhythm for that process. And I have seventeen postings to apply for first thing in the morning. I have a cover letter I've been happy with in the past, updated with current dates and details.
And importantly I've successfully bludgeoned my twin demons of perfectionism and completism into submission. I can, I HAVE, submitted applications that were imperfect and incomplete, so fuck you self destructive inner voice!
I will crank out some more in the morning, and improve on the product ON THE WAY, AS I GO..
Yes, I shout at myself sometimes.
^^^
this was Monday.
:brikwall:
^^^
this was Tuesday.
Today was *one* application submitted. Computer problems, o so many computer problems, just... eliminated my momentum.
But! I have now overcome (this most recent wave of) them, so tomorrow... we'll see. Of the previously noted seventeen, I eliminated three off the top--really not qualified. And in another spasm of seeking found another fourteen, one of which has been:
[CENTER]Application Submitted!
Successfully submitted on 2/05/2020 at 9:17 PM Pacific
You can check the status of this application by visiting "Applications" in the main menu bar.[/CENTER]
Good night all.
It can feel like a roller coaster ride but keep after it. You got dis!
First reply!
Hi!
I internally recruit for Booz Allen Hamilton, and you applied to my position. I would like to discuss more details with you, via phone. Please use my calendar link below --snip--
Thank you
Booked!
Remember the plague of computer problems I complained about?
It's shit like this:
Gmail by Google
Unusual Usage - Account Temporarily Locked Down
To keep our systems healthy, Google has temporarily disabled your account. This primarily occurs when we detect unusually high levels of activity on your account. In most cases, it should take one hour to regain access. In rare cases, it can take up to 24 hours for access to be reinstated.
We’re sorry for the inconvenience.
Here are some reasons why this could have happened:
Receiving, deleting, or downloading large amounts of mail via POP or IMAP in a short period of time.
Sending a large number of messages to many people.
Being logged into or synchronizing Gmail on many computers, clients, or mobile devices.
Browser-related issues. If you find your browser continually reloading while attempting to access your Inbox, it’s probably a browser issue, and it may be necessary to clear your browser’s cache and cookies.
Providing access to file-sharing, file-storage software, email analytics services, browser extensions, or third party software that automatically logs in to your Gmail account.
For more help troubleshooting this issue, click here. For G Suite or Google Apps users, please contact your administrator if you have any further issues.
Thanks Google. :eyebrow:
Did you do anything unusual? How many places did you send your resume
to in one shot?
Also, please consider consulting the most recent edition of "What color is your parachute". It has changed A LOT in the past few years, and pretty much covers everything my career counselor told me
phone interview in five minutes.
they stood me up, no call. phone works, SonofV called at 10:03. disappointing.
Well, shit.
Should you call them?
They don't have their shit together. Or at least the HR department doesn't. Now you know something about them. I know you want a job, but you want to work for a place that keeps promises.
Glassdoor.com now offers reviews of interviews. You could well go in and give them a 1 star. Which is why they should pay attention to details like this.
You can call them to see if they got the date wrong, something came up, they lost your number/resume...etc.; but, call only once to give them a chance to reschedule. If they give you the runaround in any way, shape or form and won't confirm another appointment while you've got them on the line, just move on. A lot of places will see how many hoops they can get you to jump through which tells them how badly you need a job and how little they can get away with offering. Most won't bother calling to let you know if they've already filled the position either.
There's this *one* job I really, really want. I'm laboring over the letter of interest now (compulsory). Ironically, I'm kinda stuck on the bullet point about what a great communicator I am.
#richwithirony
I'm determined to get it completed before dinner... or before bedtime.
sorry I'm probably too late, but...
1) never really, really want a job ;)
2) (convert to industry speak) As a whateveryourjobtitlewas I was responsible for coordinating end-user needs and ground level software creation. I also blog my home improvement projects which have a following of (whatever cellar membership is)
...not necessarily intended to be a verbatim answer, but maybe a writer's block plunger?
Letter complete..
Will submit tomorrow.
Yo Bro, you got a job,
I want that fucker,
lets dance. Capisce?
Yo Bro, you got a job,
I want that fucker,
lets dance. Capisce?
Exactly.
I have submitted my application after a couple minor edits to the required letter of interest and having Twil proofread it again. There were about twenty-five questions in the web-application, all completed. I wasn't able to answer all of them with the best answer--I don't have all the certifications they asked about. This is an area where I can improve, though I am certain I can do the work. Some people find the certification/diploma etc a placeholder for competence. Fair enough, if you're not competent, the work won't get done of course. But being certified isn't a doesn't get the work done either. aaaaanyway, I don't want to whine about the sour grapes.
This particular job is with the state and the application process is ... involved. Fortunately, the state has numerous openings and the bulk of the involved application process is (almost) automatically duplicated for the next job I apply for. Naturally, the job specific details change, and I'm answering *those* questions now.
This effect, the "mass production" of applications can be applied to some extent for all the job posting platforms. And compared to the early years of this decade, there are many more platforms. This has led to an unexpected side effect, a much larger administrative burden of keeping track of all the places I look for and apply for a job.
I have an actual list of internet sites for job leads, each one requires an account and tracking all those sets of credentials is non-trivial (well, it could be made trivial, email address + same password = bad idea). Again, not crying about how sour those grapes probably are... waaaaaahh.... Just noting that there's work to do to keep track of all this work and the pay is... deferred indefinitely.
Speaking of which, still no $$$ from my unemployment insurance claims. Apparently they're still being researched/investigated/lost behind that really heavy filing cabinet. This will transform from weird to inconvenient to hey we got a problem here to brother can you spare a dime. Right now, it's on the border between weird and inconvenient, but that slopes downhill... I don't want to have to recover any more altitude than I have to.
I am relieved to have completed that application. And my efforts and those of my collaborators have produced a cover letter that can be reused--will be reused. Anyhow, victory lap is over, time to submit another application. Thanks everyone.
Does your state have a null period for unemployment compensation? In some, you don't get compensated for the first couple weeks of unemployment. Some also withhold compensation for a period equivalent to the number of days of PTO/vacation pay that you received upon separation.
quick update
I have had my UI claim approved. Been paid. Yes, there's a waiting week at the outset. I .... "did" my waiting week and then did it again when I restarted my claim, what a stupid option on the website. don't care at this point.
I've completed yet another week's worth of applications, it's ... it's tiring. Each posting seems to come with it's own site/login/application/webapp/requirements, not to mention their own questions. Some of which are required, some not. For the record, I have gone to High School. I did graduate. I don't know or care what my GPA was in high school. Thank goodness that particular one was not "required". And references. I had one app be considered incomplete and not submittable until at least two of my references answered the system-generated email to complete the questionnaire about me. That was stressful since I found the posting only five hours before the deadline. Yes, I did wake people up asking for them to RUN TO YOUR COMPUTER AND OPEN YOUR EMAIL AND CLICK ON THE LINK AND COMPLETE THE QUESTIONNAIRE. mighta burned a bridge there.....
And I have an interview scheduled for next week. The person who called me did schedule it and send me an email with the details and also included five more documents for me to complete by Monday and requested three references. I'll deal with that one in the morning.
My list of sites that I have login credentials for is growing, .... maybe twenty or so now. Some are direct hire specific, like one of the local school districts. Some are "just" job sites, like Monster.com or LinkedIn.com, mentioned elsewhere. I'm a fan, since they can help me for modest input on my part. And even better let me have the chance to submit an application with some saved credentials/materials. Unlike say, the local school district. They're really only going to have one job I want. No economies of scale for my form filling inputs.
and the lady who called me for an phone interview did follow up with me via email asking wtf, wanna try again. I replied within a couple hours yes, definitely, let's do it... .then MORE CRICKETS. I think maybe * I * am on her spam list. I can hear from her... she may not be getting my messages. Oh well.
Alrighty... good night, see you all tomorrow.
In person interview in one hour
Leaving now
...:fingerx::fingerx::fingerx::fingerx::fingerx::fingerx::fingerx::fingerx::fingerx::fingerx:
Further update:
Remember that time when the lady who scheduled phone interview with me stood me up instead? No, not that time, the time after that. Yeah. Well, we exchanged emails again and she called me this afternoon (just twenty minutes late, but who's counting?).
Another excellent interview. She's a recruiter for a big consulting outfit and they're looking to add an engineer to a team that does work in my town, right down the road at Puget Sound Naval Shipyard. She decided to forward my application to "the team" and they'll decide if they want to interview me. That second interview will likely be a phone interview since the team has members from San Diego to Puget Sound to Tokyo. If they like what they hear in that second interview, the recruiter said they'd be willing to make an offer based on the second phone interview.
Some of the details were ones I had to say no to, unfortunately. For example, the opening requirement is a Secret clearance, which I do not have. We talked about it and she said if "I'm the job" (gah--don't get me started on the level of biz-speak... level-set, SME, show you my cards, etc etc) meaning they really like me, that they'd give me work in the non classified areas while my clearance was being ... cleared? created? validated?
Anyhow, the money's right, the location's right, I'm stoked!
Two home runs in one day!
Looking good BigV! :thumb:
Not surprising, companies are looking for gems like you every day. In their defence it ain't easy winnowing out the chaff, and making a mistake can be very costly. So they are cautious which works in your favor at this point, in that if they hear an answer they don't really like they'll take the time to ask another one to be sure.
You're on your way. :thumb:
First second interview has been scheduled for this Friday!
Again, nervous and excited. This will be an hour long conference call phone interview with the principals of the team with which I'll be working, should they offer and I accept.
Good luck, V. Hope you and it are what you and they are looking for.
:cheerldr:
oh great news! Good Luck!
J.F.C.
You know how I've moaned here about how hard it is to produce these documents, how I agonize over them, wanting them to be *perfect*? I'm the king of overthinking and I've caused myself undue stress in the process. I've had other people proof my work. I've tried to lower my [strike]neuroticism[/strike] standards and just get the stuff out the door. I might have overshot on this effort having just discovered a typographical error on my RESUME. No biggie.... just my phone number.
#facepalm
LOL. Oh, man..
That's brutal.
Yes.
I got what I got, though. Onward.
The error has been corrected, but for my local copies only. Now I have re-upload this resume, which has already been distributed to probably....forty applications? Nothing to be done about those. But I have to put the corrected copy on all the sites where I have a presence. Here's a quick list:
LIST OF SITES WHERE I HAVE LOGINS
AND RECEIVE JOB LEADS IN EMAIL
LOGIN NAME VARIES
LOGIN EMAIL VARIES
** ** ** ** ** **
https://www.indeed.com
https://www.linkedin.com
https://www.dice.com
https://lensa.com
https://seeker.worksourcewa.com
https://jobs.kitsapsun.com
https://www.kitsapgov.com
https://www.civicplus.com
https://www.bremertonwa.gov
https://www.careeronestop.org
metroseattlejobs.com (not secure)
https://www.resume-library.com
bah.wd1.myworkdayjobs.com
https://careers.boozallen.com
https://www.glassdoor.com
http://www.careers.wa.gov
https://www.usajobs.gov
https://www.governmentjobs.com
schooljobs.com and governmentjobs.com (Equivalent domains)
https://www.ziprecruiter.com
https://www.onetonline.org
http://localjobbulletin.com
https://www.monster.comwell, I've dialed into the conference call for the first second interview. I am the first person in the conference. I'm wearing my jabra bluetooth headset, the little silicone tips make a good seal for my
oh!
we're live.
well, that just happened!
went very well, will know the next thing I know within a week.
Gonna go decompress a little, have a big day today with non work stuff, and more work stuff tomorrow with an in person first interview with employer number three.
Sounds like you've been able to maintain a good attitude. :thumb:
It's been a week.
The phone interview went well.
The next day, Tuesday, I had another panel interview with an outfit here in town, just five minutes away. That interview also went very well and they said they'd like to have a decision in the next two weeks.
Yesterday I wrote a followup letter for the people in the Monday phone interview. I like them, I like their company, the job and the location all seem very appealing. I asked a couple people to proof my letter and I heard back from them this morning.
Alongside the replies from my proofreading friends, I found a message from the internal recruiter at the company who conducted the phone interview on Monday. They said they'd be in touch within a week and they kept their word.
Their word is "We would like to move forward with you. Do you have time tomorrow to chat?"
:celebrat:
This is the most preferred potential employer of the three that I've interviewed with to this point.
I am so stoked!
We would like to move forward with you.
That's my new pick up line:
I would like to move forward with you. And then back. And then forward. And then back. And then forward...
That's my new pick up line:
I would like to move forward with you. And then back. And then forward. And then back. And then forward...
Man, you crack me the hell up!
Good news:
I have been made an offer, verbally over the phone. I like the offer and they say an electronic copy will be arriving by email by early next week.
Bad news:
It is a contingent offer. It is contingent on me being granted a security clearance. This is beyond my direct control, even beyond the direct control of the employer as they don't issue security clearances.
I have never had a contingent offer (nor a security clearance). The employer says that the offer stands for six months, that they are suspending the search, that they want *me* and are willing to wait on the government (for up to six months) to get me. The employer indicated to me that they understand that I still need to work in the meantime and there are no restrictions on me during the six month "life" of the offer. The recruiter said I can take any kind of work in the meantime and when the government issues the clearance, or an interim clearance, they'll tell me (though I think I'd be informed by the government directly as well) and I can choose to accept this offer at that time.
This puts me in a kind of weird position. I want a job, I want full time work. I have other live interview/opportunities which may develop into offers. Take a job then quit saying "see ya, got a better offer", which I know absolutely happens, but I've never done that. Would I accept and say I'm expecting to leave within six months? That sounds like a bad idea. Who would intentionally hire someone, train them up knowing they wouldn't be there past six months? The flip side also feels dishonest, not telling them.
At this moment, these are hypothetical situations. I don't have to make any of these choices right now. But I'm probably going to have to make a decision like this at some point it the mid future.
Side note, the recruiter spent a lot of time talking up / talking about the benefits of the company, holidays, pay schedule, PTO schedule, etc etc. That was nice to hear, but you had me at "offer". She did also say that I need to get a technical certification which was discussed in the interview. I told the men that I didn't possess the cert they asked about. They replied, can you get it within six months of starting here? Yes, definitely. I'll start at the end of this call (and I did). One nice company benefit: $5,250 annual stipend for academic assistance and technical training. This certification would fall squarely under that characterization. I see a lot of schooling in my future.
I feel good.
you carry on hunting, you take what job you get, you do it as if it were the job you wanted all along, and then when these people come back to you, consider yourself as having been head-hunted and resign from the one you are doing accordingly.
Bad news:
It is a contingent offer. It is contingent on me being granted a security clearance. This is beyond my direct control, even beyond the direct control of the employer as they don't issue security clearances.
I have never had a contingent offer (nor a security clearance). The employer says that the offer stands for six months, that they are suspending the search, that they want *me* and are willing to wait on the government (for up to six months) to get me. The employer indicated to me that they understand that I still need to work in the meantime and there are no restrictions on me during the six month "life" of the offer. The recruiter said I can take any kind of work in the meantime and when the government issues the clearance, or an interim clearance, they'll tell me (though I think I'd be informed by the government directly as well) and I can choose to accept this offer at that time....
Perhaps I can give this some additional perspective:
The process you're awaiting is what everyone who's ever joined the military has gone through.
The authority for granting a security clearance descends from the POTUS. Career civil servants carry out that process for him and he'll never know you exist.
A security clearance is a privilege … not a right. There's no disputing the final determination; so, the government doesn't generally contact an individual directly regarding the outcome.
They'll do (maybe already have done) an instant background check for criminal convictions and psychiatric adjudications much like is done for purchasing firearms. Passing that gets you an interim security clearance.
Then they'll do a detailed background check for indicators. It's a more in-depth risk assessment in which they'll look at arrests without convictions. They may interview those you've listed as references and neighbors. They're looking to see if anything comes up that you could be blackmailed for (are you a peeping Tom; or, running an unlicensed lemonade stand?) and aren't particularly interested in people's opinions of you.
Not previously having held a security clearance only affects the waiting time. Updates are faster and there will be periodic updates. After you leave a position that requires a security clearance, it automatically gets downgraded to an inactive status. Going to another such position will only require an update and the waiting time will be shorter for reactivation.
You can lose a security clearance for anything that might've kept you from getting one in the first place (e.g. get a DUI and you can lose your job, even if you aren't convicted).
Taking another job before a security clearance is granted won't affect your eligibility for one. The investigation process will; however, stop and you'll have to start from scratch next time.
Congrats! Though as I understand it, they are far behind on investigations, and clearances are slow coming. But hopefully interim clearances are quicker.
on the other hand, once you get a clearance, you will be much more marketable.
It's all good news!
My last update was posted on 12 Mar 20, which seems an eternity ago.
I waited and waited, finally I contacted the recruiter asking about the actual offer, not just the talk of an offer. One day later, it's here. I've completed the next tasks outlined in the offer letter, including accepting the offer (utterly negotiation free, that was.... I'm struggling to express how painlessly they got their number, first time, frictionlessly, with my consent. It's a good offer, but ... I don't know. Maybe I just suck at negotiation.).
Now the contingencies get accomplished. I have studying to do. Others have investigations to conduct. Hopefully I'll have checks to cash soon. I'm so stoked and kind of tired.
yay! good luck with the rest of it, hope it's quick!
I'm so stoked and kind of tired.
Yeah, you've had your orgasm, just some afterplay then you can sleep.
Found this offering today. Might be a leftover from yesterday:
Cobol Programmer - REMOTE - WORK FROM HOME
Digital Intelligence Systems, LLC Jersey City, NJ, USA
Wowser. I don't think I have my COBOL textbook anymore. Dude might have a copy though.
I think I have one.... just emptied my collapsed bookshelf with all my textbooks (and Beest's) in it. Pascal, anyone? Prolog? (I loved Prolog)
I will forward the job posting to you if you like. Since it is a work from (old folks) home posting, the commute is optimal. I'm sure you could find it yourself, it was on Dice.com.
I'm... gonna pass for the time being. I'm not really interested in this moment to return to the life of a programmer. But maybe in another week of confinement and no pay... ask me again later.
oh god no thanks, I hated that shit..... :lol:
...there was a reason I moved to Cognitive Science :D
I found this job on Indeed, no commute... I reckon maybe I could handle numerology?
Psychic Contractor- Remote
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sounds promising!!!
Minus the phrenology, of course. #socialdistancing
I believe they're doing that remotely too...... :eek:
Hello friends.
Here's an update.
As I posted previously, I have a contingent offer in hand, good for another 5 months. In the meantime, I have been tasked with completing two requests. Provide citizenship verification, which I have done. I turned the house inside out looking for my damn birth certificate and did not find it. Let me offer all of you the benefit of my experience here. If you need to communicate with some distant public health agency for a document like this, do not click on the top search result when you ask the Google to help you. That link will take you to a very official looking site, ask you all the right questions, take your money after you confirm you've read the Terms and Conditions, and send you an email indicating they'll send the one paper page of info you just input via the mail to the public health department in question. In this email, they're very clear that you already clicked the box that you understood the T&C and that a refund will not be forthcoming. At this point, I called the office in question, and the nice lady said *this* is the one we use, the only one, you can rely on them to convey the data you input to our office electronically and that they'll probably have it out the door within the hour. Here's what you need to know, the real site, the good site, it's not at the top of the search results, and it has a kind of funny spelling. Use this one:
https://www.vitalchek.com/
C H E K, got it?
Not vitalrec or vitalcheck or vitalrecordsonline or yourvitalrecords or vitalrecordscertificates or anything like that. Just the one in the link above. As a sanity check look for the name "A LexisNexis (R) Risk Solutions Company". One sixth the price, one hour (to the health dept) instead of mailing the paper to me to be mailed to the health department for six times the price.
My money and time, your lesson.
And complete the Questionnaire for National Security Positions Standard Form 86 (SF 86). This is a non-trivial form, the
quick reference guide for which runs 44 pages. I have seven days to complete it. It is pretty exhaustive and I've taken four pages of notes just on the quick reference guide to know what to expect. I'm trying to avoid having the form open in one tab and using my computer and phone elsewhere to get the answer only to have the form tab timeout, or some other technical setback.
I have my notes, I'm going to flesh out what I know will be asked for (it's like an open book test, I'm getting my book well bookmarked before the test) so I can git-er done. Optimistically, the quick reference guide suggests that the public burden for this collection of information is estimated to be 150 minutes.
bwwaaaahahahahahahhaha!
I'll check in again in 150 minutes. Bye for now!
149 minutes having elapsed, I'm here again.
*whew*
I've completed the 136 page form. I still need to resolve fourteen errors, then validate, sign, download, and submit, but that will all happen tonight. This just happens to be a natural stopping point and we just finished dinner.
OK!
See you all in one minute, right?
[COLOR="Red"][CENTER][SIZE="4"]TIME![/SIZE][/CENTER][/COLOR]
Your Investigation Request has been released for processing. This completes the online portion of your submission.
Good night all!
Good Lord what a PIA. Nobody has clearance in the Executive Branch, can't we just open the flood gates? I guess that would spread out the Russian money too thin like UBI.
An update:
There have been a couple messages back and forth on this subject. One was a note indicating that an interim clearance would not be issued--not uncommon and not alarming. The other was a signed letter of intent to join their outfit in September--somewhat uncommon and somewhat reassuring.
Today I got an echo back from an investigator but no more breaking news than that. Good to know they're still working on it--still encouraged and still nervous.
!!!
I've just taken a call from the Special Agent and we have scheduled a videoconference for tomorrow at midday.
[COLOR="Red"]SO STOKED![/COLOR]
Hey everybody!
The interview has finally concluded.
I feel good about it (now). Yesterday was an epic failure. The DoD and subsidiary agencies are operating remotely in many instances as are we all due to the current COVID-19 crisis. This includes the agency conducting my background investigation. I received notice and invitation to a videoconference meeting via Microsoft Teams. Yesterday the Special Agent and I spent almost an hour trying to get me connected using the instructions and invitations (plural) she generated for our meeting, all to no avail. It was very discouraging.
We decided to try again today, but with the appointment booked as the last one on her schedule for the day in case we needed to hammer out the problems we encountered yesterday. This turned out to be a good idea. I won't go into / speculate why it didn't work. Well, not much. I used to be the mercenary admin for several companies that needed this work done but had no interest in doing the necessaries themselves. I had some thoughts on the matter.
But I did not think it was appropriate to barge in and mansplain to this person what she was doing wrong. That seemed very, very inappropriate. We worked together, me taking her lead, try, try, trying again and again to get the systems to connect using the instructions.... computer says not no hell no.
Finally, today, we/she got to the end of her rope after the better part of an hour trying to make it work. She said she'd contacted her tech support people and their first opening for assistance was tomorrow at 10am. Turns out I had some undeployed rope of my own. I explained that I have done this work for a living, that this was the work I was applying to do, etc, etc. and that I had some suggestions. I told her I'd done some research on the error messages displayed on my machine, found a useful FAQ from the Coast Guard related to this issue, and let's try something different. OK!
Well, we tried what I suggested and it worked. I believe there is some kind of misconfiguration in the template that she is using to generate the emailed invitation--that one never worked and we tried repeatedly. The instructions clearly state, and I quote:
CONNECT
Please follow the personalized link below to access your video interview.
(link redacted)
Narp.
Her workflow produced two messages per invitation and I copied the contents of a link in the preceding message from her and was able to make it work. We finally got our respective computers to each display the camera feed of the other, audio worked, all was great! The interview was an anticlimax after that struggle, even if it did take more than an hour recovering ground I'd covered in the original *very* extensive background form.
We concluded the interview both glad to have finally succeeded. She said it had to go to a reviewer then to an adjudicator and then god knows where, but it seemed to be moving expeditiously. Spoken like an employed person, I said to myself.
Anyhow, back to waiting for the email to ring.
IRONICALLY
As I said, I am "working" from home, and she is also working remotely. During our non-video calls, my cat Cleo meowed and I (eyes rolling) said that's my cat, she wants on my lap since I'm sitting at the computer. She said she has a furry friend too, implying that she was not in her office.
Once we got connected the conversation got round to my address and she said, "XXXX Road?, I'm just off XXXX Road." Turns out we're neighbors.
Close neighbors. How close? Later in the interview someone exploded their last Fourth of July firework and we both jumped. I said "OH! Did you hear that through my computer mic?" She said "No, I heard it through my window!" Our houses are close enough that we're both hearing the same idiots blasting fireworks in the middle of the afternoon.
Later I thought, wtf, we could have just met up at freakin Starbucks.
Ha! Looks like people are falling into a new trap with all this video.
Sounds like she'll give you a good report. :thumb:
Sounds like she'll give you a good report. :thumb:
we were cordial. I tried not to presume too much. I feel I'm a good candidate, but I don't know what standards she and the others in the chain use to guide their decision.
I had a second interview today with a second Special Agent conducting my background investigation. It went well, but what do I know?
Clearance granted
Clearance
eligibility granted, to be precise. More tasks lie ahead. I feel like I've respawned on the next level having evaded all the traps and completed at least all the side quests. Now I have a new level, with new items and skills, though I'm not completely sure how to use them...
yet. On hold now with the Help Desk (at > 12:00, I'm trying something else).
[YOUTUBE]zatL4uFRpC0[/YOUTUBE]
Level up!
[ATTACH]71566[/ATTACH]
yesterday was my first day at work!
#backinthesaddle
OUTSTANDING! Way to go, BigV!
yesterday was my first day at work!
#backinthesaddle
Woot!!:celebrat::cheerldr:
That's good news, does it mean they are done and you have clearance now?
I am, as they say, good to go.
Still working out some basic stuff, haven't met my direct supervisor, don't have a desk or a computer or a phone, credentials are... maybe coming? With no email access, it's hard to tell.
On the plus side, the team is *GREAT*! Got the cook's tour today and it was awesome. I'm gonna love it here.
One more adjustment. The day starts VERY early. So bedtime is VERY early. That's not really a big problem but the commute... I haven't figured that one out yet. Parking is way, way above my pay grade. And where I am permitted to park, nearby, is pretty expensive, ~$250/month. FTS. Today I experimented with parking in the nearest fee free space and walking the difference. Well. It's a less than ten minute drive and a more than twenty minute walk. So, that's happening. Tomorrow I'll experiment with putting the bike in the back of the truck, driving to wherever I like to park, and biking in, then walking to the building. We'll see.
Good for your health either way.
Maybe, but I wonder how many people have a heart attack on the way to work vs on the way home? :haha: