...he said he had a bomb in his bag. Or did he?

Eyewitness: "I Never Heard the Word 'Bomb'"

A passenger on Flight 924 gives his account of the shooting and says Rigoberto Alpizar never claimed to have a bomb

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1138965,00.html

MIAMI, Florida (CNN) -- As investigators try to piece together the final moments before two air marshals shot and killed an American Airlines passenger, questions are arising about whether he made a bomb threat.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/12/08/airplane.gunshot/index.html

This is my guess: due to his mental illness, he suddenly became convinced that there was a bomb on the plane. At some point he said something to that effect, and the Marshal thought he was claiming that he had the bomb.

It's extremely unfortunate that people who are helplessly in the throes of an episode of mental illness can suffer such a fate. Of course, one might also ask why the man's wife did not call the police or a mental health counselor if she KNEW that he was in no condition to go out in public, having refused to take his meds. Something really strange has taken place in this country, now everybody is a victim and nobody is responsible if their own actions put them in the wrong place at the wrong time. You walk in front of a bus, you get killed. End of story. But nowdays, everybody is wailing about how "it shouldn't have happened" or "the police reacted inappropriately" while the poor enforcement guys who are frequently attacked for not having done ENOUGH (think Columbine) have to take all the consequences. I say this is bullshit! "Americans" wanted armed air marshalls on all the planes, they wanted to give pilots guns so they could defend the front cabin. Well, they got what they asked for. Did people think that only bearded, wild-eyed Muslim clerics would be shot in the aisles?

Happy Monkey wrote:

This is my guess: due to his mental illness, he suddenly became convinced that there was a bomb on the plane. At some point he said something to that effect, and the Marshal thought he was claiming that he had the bomb.

When I moved in to my new office building at the beginning of the year, there was a brief period where everyone, including me, was inspecting the new digs.

There is a rooftop deck on this building, with some nice benches and tables where you can eat lunch and look at the views of DC. To get there, you have to use a particular elevator. We have 8 elevators, and I wasn't sure which one to take to get to the roof top terrace.

I went up the the concierge guy in the lobby and said. "I understand there's a terrace on the roof. How do I get up there?" He got this weird panicked look on his face and really scrutinized me. He actually looked afraid. I repeated myself, since he wasn't answering my question. Turns out he thought I was telling him there was a terrorist on the roof. This was a week before Bush was going to have an inauguration party across the street, and my building had apparently received a visit from the Secret Service in advance.

He was nervous, and looking for things that weren't there.

We live in interesting times.

The story on the news tonight was; He told them he had a bomb in the bag when they caught up with him outside the plane. He then put his hands in the bag and started toward the two marshalls who were holding their guns on him. They opened fire after repeatedly telling him to put the bag down.

I'd have shot him too. :eyebrow:

I say this is bullshit! "Americans" wanted armed air marshalls on all the planes, they wanted to give pilots guns so they could defend the front cabin. Well, they got what they asked for.

And it was good. :thumb:

I think the most important factor here is that we are now tied with the Brits at one apiece in the "whoops, he wasn't a terrorist" competition.

I, for one, will not stand for being anything but #1.

People have enough trouble getting their unmedicated crazy family members into the back of the minivan for a 15 minute ride. I can't imagine how the wife managed to load him onto a jetliner for a multi-hour flight.

I also think that the air marshall acted properly.

if you say the word "BOMB" within a city block of an airport, refuse to comply (for any reason) with the directives of an air marshal, and reach into you backpack... *pop**pop**pop* end of story.

sorry for the family, but tough shit. if he was that unstable and unpredictable he shouldn't have been anywhere near public transportation. hell, if it'd been philly, wolf might of popped him. ;)

Being crazy: not good for your health and shortens your lifespan. The only thing to say is "too bad."

wolf wrote:

People have enough trouble getting their unmedicated crazy family members into the back of the minivan for a 15 minute ride. I can't imagine how the wife managed to load him onto a jetliner for a multi-hour flight.

I'm part of a informed consent committee to make sure nuts er inmates er patients um... sorry clients are treated properly in a facility up here. They have trouble getting meds in folks who are locked up let alone folks running around on the outside.

One thing I've noticed about the unmedicated ones is that they can seem to be doing fine and then WHAMMO! I was talking to the schizophrenic brother of a friend once. The brother refused meds as many schizo's do. We were having a perfectly pleasant conversation about his new apartment and how he wanted to furnish it when he suddenly said, "I'm sorry. The voices are back!" Ane he went into a long monologue with one of them that was apparently telling him something or other about the devil. Its sad.

I don't blame the marshalls, but the man's death was still a tragedy.

Voices don't work that way. He was probably tired of talking to you and used his (known) illness as an out since he probably lacked the social skills necessary to terminate a conversation gracefully.

You're the expert, Wolf. Could be. More exactly, he seemed to be trying to talk with me and deal with another voice that was quite nasty at the same time. Another schizophrenic I've known who was on his meds would never stop talking. You just had to leave him in mid-sentence. I'll tell you what, though, I'd never let either one of them take a flight alone if I was a family member who bore any sort of responsibility toward them.

dude was acting erraticaly for WHAT ever reason , the air marshals stepped in to contain and resolve the situation , they did JUST that !!! This IS there job .

Sorry dude was not on his meds .
I see this as his OWN damn dumb ass fault !!!

Elspode wrote:

I think the most important factor here is that we are now tied with the Brits at one apiece in the "whoops, he wasn't a terrorist" competition.

I, for one, will not stand for being anything but #1.

Well, at least in this case the official story is holding, which may justify the shooting. The "jumping the turnstile, bulky overcoat" story that the British police used fell apart very quickly.

If he said he had a bomb in the bag, then IMO the shooting was justified.

"I was on the phone with my brother. Somebody came down the aisle and put a shotgun to the back of my head and said put your hands on the seat in front of you. I got my cell phone karate chopped out of my hand. Then I realized it was an official."

Air Marshall...shotgun? Since when? :eyebrow: