Illegal Immigrants Are Killing Us
I'm in Iraq, fighting terrorism from what they tell me, getting paid squat, spending a year away from my family, and I am constantly reading articles about Illegal Immigrants invading my own country. I would like to know why were are spending billions of dollars on this country, "fighting terrorism" and yet we throw away even more money at home by letting Illegals into the country to take more of our money.
The Illegals are bringing in disease, guns, drugs, possibly terrorists, gang members, and who knows what else, and we stand for it. We lose millions every year because of these people. We give them all the medical care they can take. We give them education that we pay for. Additionally, they send what money they earn back to Mexico. Hell, some states are even implementing a mandatory Spanish course for police, firemen, and EMTs so they can better communicate with people who don't speak English!!! Some congress people are trying to get them drivers licenses. There is even a man who wants Illegal Immigrants to have the power to vote at school board meetings. Are you kidding me? Not on my dime, Folks.
People, wake up! Let them come, yes, but lets make them legal so they have to at least pay taxes and earn what they get like the rest of us. Make them learn English so we don't have to waste our money on teaching people Spanish. It is America, last I knew. I think it's a shame there are parts of California where I can't even understand a person behind the counter at a gas station because they don't speak English.
"No thanks. I'll take my business elsewhere, Amigo."
Whether you agree with the war or not, you should pay attention to this illegal issue. This is our nation, People. This is America, not Amexico. I don't give a damn about Mexico's problems. They need to clean up their own backyard before they come in and start messing up ours. We need a stronger border. The politicians just don't seem to care. We need to wake them up a bit and remind them who is taking care of the bill-WE ARE. We need to remind them, we are the ones in charge. Write letters, make phone calls, start another website for the love of Pete. Do something. I can't believe this wasn't an issue on this website to begin with after all the praise I've heard about it....nothing on Illegal Immigration...Okay, I will begin the battle.
Okay -- so who is going to pick your fruit, wash your dishes, mow your lawn?...:eyebrow:
Do a little research before you start spouting garbage. Here's a good (short) article to start with:
http://www.cato.org/pubs/policy_report/pr-imopi.htmlOkay -- so who is going to pick your fruit, wash your dishes, mow your lawn?...:eyebrow:
Do a little research before you start spouting garbage. Here's a good (short) article to start with: http://www.cato.org/pubs/policy_report/pr-imopi.html
Not that I agree with nicotine, but I live in the Chicago 'burbs - so no fruit trees. The lot is small so I don't mind mowing. And I have a daughter on dish duty.
So I don't need immigrants for any of that.
Not that I agree with nicotine, but I live in the Chicago 'burbs - so no fruit trees. The lot is small so I don't mind mowing. And I have a daughter on dish duty.
So I don't need immigrants for any of that.
But you do need your sugar. Sugar foolishly is produced in the US because your taxes pay for half of it. IOW Jose and Juan have no jobs. The sugar industry cannot move to where it is easy to produce AND where the people need jobs. So what do these people do? They do exactly as your own ancestors did when there were no jobs and where government / religious intolerance told them what religion to worship. Illegals go where the jobs are. There will be no stopping them by force because America needs them - in part thanks to the US government's enriching of selective industries.
If you have problem with illegal immigration, then start by demanding the administration stop subsidizing so many agricultural industries. As long as the government subsidizes food - and the biggest offenders are France and the U.S. - then we must import illegal immigrants in massive numbers.
Not that I agree with nicotine, but I live in the Chicago 'burbs - so no fruit trees. The lot is small so I don't mind mowing. And I have a daughter on dish duty.
Ever eat out? Ever eat a peach shipped from Cali? Still the same illegals. It doesn't have to be local to have a large impact on the economy that affects you.
You see, the main issue with illegal aliens is that...well, there illegal. They are breaking the law, they are here illegallly. I don't see why we should reward those who are breaking the law. Someone breaks into your house and steals all your electronic equipment. They get caught but someone thinks we should compensate that person monitarily for the time they spend in jail. Obviously, this a fictional scenario, but it's pretty much what folks want to see happen with illegal migrants. Give them the same rights I have for being here illegally.
Now don't get me wrong, I am not one of those people who complains because the imigrants are taking "my jobs" away from me. Pie has a point, who is going to do these mundain jobs that most Americans don't want anything to do with. I just had three Hispanic gentlemen in my backyard for the last three days moving dirt around to re-grade my yard. In the middle of August in the hot Arizona sun...what a suckass job that is. But there they were, working their buns off. I wouldn't want that job, no way, no how. But why do they have to be illegal aliens. I'm not hip on the mechanics of how to get to America legally. I don't know whether it cost money, there's a huge waiting list, that we only allow a certain number of folks in, how work visa's work. I don't know. Maybe someone can clue me in on how this works.
When you have illegal aliens working in this country, two things happen. One, they usually are getting paid under the table becuase they don't have social security numbers, so they are not paying taxes to support the public services that they use. Two, most of the money goes back over the border to support the rest of the family in Mexico. So in my slightly elementry economic knowledge, that does nothing for our economy.
Nicotinegun is clearly a jingoistic, nationalistic, moron who is woefully lacking in education; in particular history.
America was built by immigrants. Unless he's 100% American Indian, the only difference between his family and illegal Mexican immigrants is the accent with which they speak. When European immigrants came to America, all they had to do was show up and they'd be welcomed.
Now we've got a bunch of idiots trying to close the borders, and trying to make it tougher and tougher for someone to come here to work to build a better life for their families.
America has always welcomed immigrants with open arms and always should. It keeps labor and goods reasonably priced. It keeps competition high. And it makes sure the best and brightest from all over the world come here to put America on top.
A Mexican coming here is just as American as anyone born here, if not moreso. He CHOSE to come here, and did something about it. He isn't American by accident of birth. He worked hard to make it happen. The best Mexicans in the world are in America. The best Europeans in the world are in America. The best black people in the world are in America. We've got the strongest, fastest, and smartest people on earth because we welcome everyone.
Only a fool with no understanding of freedom would be against allowing an unlimited number of immigrants to come to America. But then again, only a fool with no concept of freedom would take part in the war in Iraq. In fact only a traitor who has violated his oath would follow the wholly unlawful order to invade Iraq. Only a coward who was afraid to go to the brig would comply.
The answer isn't to close off our borders. The answer is to remove each and every single unconstitutional social program like medicare, social security, welfare, public schools, etc. so there is no incentive for people to come here seeking handouts. Only to seek opportunity so they'd be contributing and not leeching.
Welcome to the Cellar, Nicotinegun.
There is a difference, Radar, between welcoming immigrants who come in through the front door for the purpose of bettering themselves, producing, contributing, and, oh yeah, learning English and the folks who are sneaking across the border, working under the table, and sending their kids to school that they aren't paying for, receiving medical care that they aren't paying for, etc. etc.
I don't know the source of the numbers, but some poll taken in Mexico indicated that HALF their population wanted to come to the US, and 20% were willing to come illegally. The question that raised for me was not "What's so great about America?" but "How do you fix what's broken in Mexico?"
Maddox has two
great articles on a very similar topic.
As I said, the solution isn't to restrict immigration. It's to end all the social programs, medical care, etc. Also, Spanish has been spoken in America far longer than English and on a continual basis. I am for getting rid of public schools.
English is the language of business in America, and those who fail to learn it, won't do well in business.
Well this has totally buggered up my holiday plans. It was going to be a choice between Mexico and New Orleans. Now I 'm not sure if I should go to Mexico, as I would then be supporting the Mexicans who are more interested in poaching from the US economy than improving their own, nor for that matter if I should go to the US because I will most probably be encouraging more illegals by supporting the tourist industry where I would expect a lot of them find work. What a dilemma! - sounds as though it might have to be Cuba instead!
(If it's any consolation I thought NG was talking about the UK when I first started reading his diatribe - reckon this is a common problem across the western economies)
Think of it this way. If more people in Mexico make money, they'll have less reason to come to America. That's why I buy American cars. I want to keep jobs in Mexico.
Welcome to the Cellar, Nicotinegun.
There is a difference, Radar, between welcoming immigrants who come in through the front door for the purpose of bettering themselves, producing, contributing, and, oh yeah, learning English and the folks who are sneaking across the border, working under the table, and sending their kids to school that they aren't paying for, receiving medical care that they aren't paying for, etc. etc.
The magic words are "working under the table," Wolf. American citizens are hiring illegal immigrants illegally. If Americans hired only legal workers and took deductions out of their wages for taxes, the illegals would be legal and they wouldn't be getting the "free ride" they are now. The story is not as simple as the evil Mexican, desperate for work. What's so wrong with wanting to work, anyhow? I think the employers that pay under the table are more at fault than the workers.
Close the borders, but make it easier to become a legal immigrant. If you want to become an American, we should make room for you. If you want to be a [insert country here]-ian, but take advantage of the American welfare system, our infrastructure, our health care, too damn bad. If you ring the doorbell and come in through the front door, you're a guest or a resident. If you crawl in through the window, you're an intruder.
Damn, ignorant crap like this pisses me off. OK, must calm down...must focus...
Those of you who think that illegal immigrants are leeching resources from us, without any return...Do you really think the IRS is that stupid?
There is a special tax ID number with which illegal immigrants can use to pay wage tax and Social Security. It's estimated that they pay in BILLIONS, and they usually do not end up collecting Social Security.
Why would illegal immigrants bother to get an ID number and pay taxes? Well, they are people who have most likely risked everything, including death, to come here and make better lives for themselves and their families. They see getting the special tax ID as a way to put themselves in good graces with the U.S. government.
Yes, some end up not being able to be as productive as they set out to be, and then there are the bad seeds. But for the most part, illegal immigrants have to rely on emergency health services because they work jobs which do not offer health care or allow them to afford health care insurance.
People always seems to forget this:
America was built by immigrants. Unless he's 100% American Indian, the only difference between his family and illegal Mexican immigrants is the accent with which they speak. When European immigrants came to America, all they had to do was show up and they'd be welcomed.
My great-grandparents were Mexicans until New Mexico became a state in 1912. My great-grandfather spoke five languages, including Spanish--English was not one of them. Learning a little Spanish is not going to kill anyone, in fact, it will only help, because Spanish is the most widely spoken language in the world.
Aargh!
If we had to rely on non-Hispanic workers here (of course, they are *all* legal, according to their ID's, which I am not required to be an expert about...their SS #'s are good, anyway), we'd be out of business. As far as I can tell, there aren't 50 qualified white guys in the entire city who even want the jobs we offer (insulation, gutter and fireplace installation).
Put your knee back in joint. Our grandparents were legal immigrants. Legal.
Legal.
They did not break the law and expect everyone else to congratulate them for it. I have no doubt that, like any other group of people, illegal immigrants comprise both good and bad folks. I'm sure they just want to make a living. I've worked alongside them in factories, warehouses, and fields. Half of my friends are of Mexican descent, several are from Mexico, and I can't count the number of people from that country I've hung out with over the years.
Oh by the way....a great number of them are pissed off that their countrymen are bringing heat down on the heads of honest, law-abiding immigrants. But if you think that any substantial number of illegals are paying taxes (or anything else), you're high. "It's estimated" is a garbage phrase. There is no way to estimate anything about them -- it's pure guesswork, because no one knows how many of them are here.
It's estimated that 100% of the illegals I worked with in a motorcycle helmet factory several years ago were paid in cash, and it was barely enough to get drunk on. You want burden? One of them broke his leg (actually it was nearly torn off) in a garbage compactor, and after he went to the emergency room, immigration got wind of the situation and cleared almost the whole factory out. Who knows what his bill was for the leg? Who knows what the cost of running his 50-odd coworkers through the system was? Who cares, anyway. We better cough it up, or else we're racist and xenophobic.
Yes, we should have compassion. That's why I said we should make it easier to get in legally. I think there should be some leeway for people who have been here a long time and have proven themselves to be productive members of our society. But fuck this noise about "if you don't like illegals pouring over the borders in record numbers, you're against Mexicans." It's a lie.
The legal/illegal distinction holds no water. When our grandparents came here, all they had to do to be legal was show up. Immigrants from Mexico should be able to do the same thing.
And nobody has addressed the fact that the federal government is given no authority over immigration by the U.S. Constitution. It is given authority over "naturalization", but not immigration.
There should be no limits on the number or country of origin of immigrants. If we get rid of handouts, we can be sure they're coming for opportunity, not welfare. Mexican immigrants are no more likely to commit crimes (a crime has not been committed unless the rights, property, or person of a non-consenting other are violated....this means using drugs, prostitution, suicide, walking across the border, etc. are NOT crimes) than the people born here.
The answer isn't to close off our borders. The answer is to remove each and every single unconstitutional social program like medicare, social security, welfare, public schools, etc. so there is no incentive for people to come here seeking handouts. Only to seek opportunity so they'd be contributing and not leeching.
That's a novel approach! If it wasn't as nice to
be here, maybe they wouldn't
want to come.
Maybe the Eutopean side of my family were legal immigrants, but they were hardly desirable. I come from Appalachian stock who arrived as indentured servants and Irish, Scots and Welsh trouble makers who were offered transportation out of the British Isles in lieu of prison. Back where I was born, one branch of the family was STILL considered no accounts who made their living distilling white lightening in the woods. One of my grandmother's was Cherokee - this was considered a disgrace in the South at the time.
As far as I'm concerned I have absolutely no right to talk about my law abiding ancestors versus the lawless Mexican wetback looking for work to support himself and his family.
I'm glad the rest of you are such blue bloods. Thanks to one of my criminal ancestors I qualify for membership in the DAR. BFD!
That's a novel approach! If it wasn't as nice to be here, maybe they wouldn't want to come.
It would still be a nice place if charity were voluntary. In fact it would be nicer than it is now, because we'd have more of what we earn and be able to open new businesses, send our kids to better schools, give more to those in need, etc.
Why must everyone couch this argument in useless blather about class warfare? It's not about their Mexicanness, it's not about their sorry state of affairs at home. It's not about whether or not they have good intentions. It's about an already suffocated welfare system, border-state hospitals in financial crisis, and a border that serves as a flashing neon welcome mat to terrorists, terrorist weapons, drug runners, and slave traders.
We're supposed to be all-compassionate, all-giving, ever-welcoming and supportive, but require nothing of those we're so damn nice to. It is not too much to ask to require that if you live and work in this country, you get your name on the books. You on the left who are so enamored of the liberal, refined ways of the United Nations: pick a UN country whose immigration policy you'd like to adopt in this situation.
I could be wrong, but I'm betting you don't find one that says "Sure, come as you are, we don't need to see your credentials. Have fun, enjoy your stay."
edit:
FWIW, marichiko, i was looking at my family's history in the Civil War while I was in NC. They were mostly privates in the Confederacy, and about half were deserters. I know from white trash. And the ratio of useless white person to working Mexican is 32:1 in southern Colorado. What's your point? No restrictions for anyone, unless they're white? I'm only half kidding...that's what most rhetoric from the other side sounds like to me.
"It's estimated" is a garbage phrase. There is no way to estimate anything about them -- it's pure guesswork, because no one knows how many of them are here.
Alright, if that's the case, what are we so worried about?
No one knows how many of them are here. How can we possibly know how much they're bleeding us dry for?
Oh by the way....a great number of them are pissed off that their countrymen are bringing heat down on the heads of honest, law-abiding immigrants.
Sure, Latinos talk crap about "wetbacks"--it's nothing new. Some of the same folks who complain had a parent or grandparent who came over illegally. Hypocrisy exists everywhere.
You see, the main issue with illegal aliens is that...well, there illegal. They are breaking the law, they are here illegallly.
forget it hobbs, they don't have illegals traipsing through their backyards so this is purely intellectual for them. now if they move down here, they might be more interested in seeing the reality of it. if i think about it i will take some pics of Bell road some morning and post it. then everyone can see the illegals standing around waiting for someone to come and illegally hire their illegal asses.
Well this has totally buggered up my holiday plans. It was going to be a choice between Mexico and New Orleans.
go to mexico. it is a wonderful vacation spot (many parts), and you will be putting money into their economy, maybe getting some to stay home.
edit:
FWIW, marichiko, i was looking at my family's history in the Civil War while I was in NC. They were mostly privates in the Confederacy, and about half were deserters. I know from white trash. And the ratio of useless white person to working Mexican is 32:1 in southern Colorado. What's your point? No restrictions for anyone, unless they're white? I'm only half kidding...that's what most rhetoric from the other side sounds like to me.
FWIW back at you, my family didn't even fight in the civil war. I could not be a member of the Confedrate Daughters of America or whatever they're called. A lot of southerners deserted the ranks to go home and plow their spring crops. A lot deserted because they were worried about their families. The hardships the Civil War imposed on the South were far higher than what it imposed on the North. I once asked my Dad why our family didn't fight in the War between the States, and he looked very surprised. "We were poor people. We weren't interested in keeping slaves, and the fighting never really came near our farms, so we didn't have to worry about defending our homes." Pragmatists, they were. But this is off topic.
I made the comment I did because some folks were getting all huffy about how THEIR ancestors came here
legally like this somehow made them better than more recent immigrants. 100 years ago, the US was begging for immigrants. It was no big deal to come here legally. 300 years ago Britain used the southern colonies as a dumping ground for undesirables back in the British Isles. In MY case, I was just pointing out that the fact that my ancestors coming here legally in chains did not make them better than the folks who now come here illegally to work and are forced to LEAVE in chains.
The statement I made to Wolf still stands. I do not see how we can place the full blame on the Mexican illegal worker when it is the
American farmers, ranchers and businessmen who hire them under the table, knowing full well that they are illegals. You can't place the sole responsibility on the Mexican workers.
WE are a finite country, and we must accept this fact. There are only so many jobs here to go around. We would be committing suicide as a nation to just throw our southern border open to all who wanted to cross it. Mexican workers do fill a certain need in the labor market, however. They will work harder and for lower wages and benefits than most American workers are willing to work for.
We can put up a 20 foot concrete wall that runs continuously from San Diego to El Paso and gun down all illegals on sight. We will then pay a higher price for any number of agricultural products, services, etc. We can re-instate something like the old Bracero program where Mexican workers come in legally for short periods of time to do the work they do for bargain prices and then go home. We can crack down HARD on employers who use illegals. It is these employers, as much as anyone else, who are forcing the American tax payer to cover schooling, etc, for the illegals. The Mexican people want to work. That's all. We can't let all of them in, but we could stop looking at just one aspect of the problem and look to the bigger picture for solutions.
As far as the hispanic population of Southern Colorado, do you know what you're talking about?
There is a special tax ID number with which illegal immigrants can use to pay wage tax and Social Security. It's estimated that they pay in BILLIONS, and they usually do not end up collecting Social Security.
[dripping]I'm sure that they are applying for these "special tax ID numbers" in droves. [/sarcasm]
[QUOTE=bluecuracao]Alright, if that's the case, what are we so worried about? No one knows how many of them are here. How can we possibly know how much they're bleeding us dry for?
Because although we do not know _exactly_ how many are here, we do have a count of the ones that we _do_ know are here. You take that number, do some magical mathmatic extrapoloation, and voila` a calculation of how many of our tax dollars are going to support people who don't belong here.
The industry I work in tracks information on each of the number of children that born daily. The government collects statistical information from that data and can calculate where the larger communities of undocumented aliens are located.
The public welfare systems are taxed by the mere presence of these interlopers. Hospitals that recieve public funds by law are not allowed to turn anyone away. (I'm verifying that this is the truth, not just how I remember it during my time working for DPW in PA) That fact alone causes a massive outpouring of funds to treat people who contribute little or nothing to the system.
So yes, there are some fairly sizeable things to worry about.
The social programs have gotten out of hand.
Lately it seems the majority of my paycheck goes to feeding my family. Not just food, of course there's all of the non-edible things I have to buy weekly also. I recently gave a neighbor a ride to the grocery store so she could get $560.00 worth of food, soap, and paper products for herself and her seven kids - at no cost to her! She has a handy little plastic "Oklahoma Access card". The gov't did away with commodities and food stamps so people wouldn't feel bad being seen using them and gave them credit card looking things that also have cash available on them every month. This girl has never worked a day in her life, moves a man in ever so often, reports "father unknown" on her babies, and sits back and collects. The state even bought her a van a while back so she could go to a Vo-Tech school, which of course she never did. She eventually sold it. Will this crap ever end?
I've seen very young girls on talk shows screaming at the audience that they "have the right to stay home and raise their babies". I don't know if they even have a clue who is paying them to do this, but I don't think they really care.
I made the comment I did because some folks were getting all huffy about how THEIR ancestors came here legally like this somehow made them better than more recent immigrants. 100 years ago, the US was begging for immigrants. It was no big deal to come here legally. 300 years ago Britain used the southern colonies as a dumping ground for undesirables back in the British Isles. In MY case, I was just pointing out that the fact that my ancestors coming here legally in chains did not make them better than the folks who now come here illegally to work and are forced to LEAVE in chains.
The ancestors who came legally are no "better" than the new immigrants who come legally. However, both of those groups are entitled to more than the illegal immigrants of both generations. We owe our citizens lifelibertyandthepursuitofhappiness, but we don't owe anyone else's citizens dick. That said, there is an argument to be made that we should worry about our neighbors before we worry about Africa. But just managing to walk across a fence and swim a river does not make you a citizen.
Incidentally, the dictionary definition of "immigrant" is "a person who comes to a country to take up permanent residence", not "anyone who wants to get a seasonal job in one country and take the money home to another country, while taking advantage of the services and welfare systems of the first."
The statement I made to Wolf still stands. I do not see how we can place the full blame on the Mexican illegal worker when it is the American farmers, ranchers and businessmen who hire them under the table, knowing full well that they are illegals. You can't place the sole responsibility on the Mexican workers.
Very true. The American side of the equation must be dealt with, as well. But I'm curious....what would you say if you heard that the vast number of illegals coming across the border every year was being denied work and turned back at every doorstep they came to? I suspect that we would be considered evil and heartless, and the left would demand that "something be done," probably in the form of more tax money going to handouts.
WE are a finite country, and we must accept this fact. There are only so many jobs here to go around. We would be committing suicide as a nation to just throw our southern border open to all who wanted to cross it.
Right. So what are you arguing about?
Mexican workers do fill a certain need in the labor market, however. They will work harder and for lower wages and benefits than most American workers are willing to work for.
The only way for this to occur is for American ranchers, etc., to hire them illegally. If they are here legally, they must be paid minimum wage. They could also unionize. The left is guilty of racism on this issue. Not the "hang all [race]" racism, but "you're [race], so you're obviously not equipped to follow the same rules as the rest of us. Because of your race, we'll give you a pass." Patronizing and wrong.
We can put up a 20 foot concrete wall that runs continuously from San Diego to El Paso and gun down all illegals on sight. We will then pay a higher price for any number of agricultural products, services, etc. We can re-instate something like the old Bracero program where Mexican workers come in legally for short periods of time to do the work they do for bargain prices and then go home. We can crack down HARD on employers who use illegals. It is these employers, as much as anyone else, who are forcing the American tax payer to cover schooling, etc, for the illegals. The Mexican people want to work. That's all. We can't let all of them in, but we could stop looking at just one aspect of the problem and look to the bigger picture for solutions.
So where would you personally draw the line? We can't let "all" of them in, so which ones should we allow? Which should we turn back? What is the point of cracking down on employers if you're not going to stem the supply of cheap, illegal labor? Maybe Nancy Reagan could come and tell them to Just Say No?
As far as the hispanic population of Southern Colorado, do you know what you're talking about?
Intimately. At any rate, I was agreeing with you. You shouldn't argue when people are agreeing with you. I was saying that there are 32 decent hardworking Mexicans per useless militia-member white nut.
But I fell into the race trap, at any rate. My bad -- this isn't about race, as much as the left wishes it were.
Ooh. I have to call my Hispanic lawyer and make sure he got the whole $1700 for my DUI case. It almost broke me to pay him, but I'm sure his bambinos will appreciate the extra tortillas, particularly since he's in the Bahamas this week and can't support the family. :rolleyes:
Nicotinegun is clearly a jingoistic, nationalistic, moron who is woefully lacking in education; in particular history.
America was built by immigrants. Unless he's 100% American Indian, the only difference between his family and illegal Mexican immigrants is the accent with which they speak. When European immigrants came to America, all they had to do was show up and they'd be welcomed.
Now we've got a bunch of idiots trying to close the borders, and trying to make it tougher and tougher for someone to come here to work to build a better life for their families.
America has always welcomed immigrants with open arms and always should. It keeps labor and goods reasonably priced. It keeps competition high. And it makes sure the best and brightest from all over the world come here to put America on top.
A Mexican coming here is just as American as anyone born here, if not moreso. He CHOSE to come here, and did something about it. He isn't American by accident of birth. He worked hard to make it happen. The best Mexicans in the world are in America. The best Europeans in the world are in America. The best black people in the world are in America. We've got the strongest, fastest, and smartest people on earth because we welcome everyone.
Only a fool with no understanding of freedom would be against allowing an unlimited number of immigrants to come to America. But then again, only a fool with no concept of freedom would take part in the war in Iraq. In fact only a traitor who has violated his oath would follow the wholly unlawful order to invade Iraq. Only a coward who was afraid to go to the brig would comply.
The answer isn't to close off our borders. The answer is to remove each and every single unconstitutional social program like medicare, social security, welfare, public schools, etc. so there is no incentive for people to come here seeking handouts. Only to seek opportunity so they'd be contributing and not leeching.
Radar, I am willing to make a significant wager I, not only have more education than you, but also a better quality education than you do. While earning my education at my universities, I was always given the impression that the more education one earns, the less one would have to call others names. How's the online GED coming along, Sport?
As far as I can tell, there aren't 50 qualified white guys in the entire city who even want the jobs we offer (insulation, gutter and fireplace installation).[/QUOTE]
Ahh, I knew it wouldn't take long before some doomed fool brought up skin color. We're talking about skin color here, Dear Friend. We're talking about my tax dollars paying for people who weren't born here. Congratulations, by the way. You've earned the first, of many I'm sure, Race Card Alert Notice. You've taken the short cut to thinking by using race as the issue. Tell the good Rev. Sharpton I said hello, will you?
Okay -- so who is going to pick your fruit, wash your dishes, mow your lawn?...:eyebrow:
Do a little research before you start spouting garbage. Here's a good (short) article to start with: http://www.cato.org/pubs/policy_report/pr-imopi.html
If a NASA monkey can pilot a space craft, he can pick fruit. For all I care the damned prisoners in CA can pick the fruit all day long instead of watching television and learning new and better ways to break the law and kill each other. However, we could make them fight eachother in the attempt to make them kill each other.
Now this may just be the Gaius Caligula(3rd Emperor of Rome) blood line in me speaking, but imagine how much money we could raise by reinstating the gladiator arena in prisons. The monkeys can pick the fruit and the violent offenders can fight to the death. Brilliant!!!! I know, I know, they have rights too.
I believe Uncle Caligula said it best when he said "If all of Rome had but one throat to slit." Ahhh, Uncle Caligula.
If a NASA monkey can pilot a space craft, he can pick fruit. For all I care the damned prisoners in CA can pick the fruit all day long instead of watching television and learning new and better ways to break the law and kill each other. However, we could make them fight eachother in the attempt to make them kill each other.
Now this may just be the Gaius Caligula(3rd Emperor of Rome) blood line in me speaking, but imagine how much money we could raise by reinstating the gladiator arena in prisons. The monkeys can pick the fruit and the violent offenders can fight to the death. Brilliant!!!! I know, I know, they have rights too.
I believe Uncle Caligula said it best when he said "If all of Rome had but one throat to slit." Ahhh, Uncle Caligula.
*Ahem*
You forgot to say it's Clinton's fault. An honest oversight, I'm sure. Carry on.
It's no fair. You guys on the left get movie stars on your side, we get forum posters WITH ALL CAPS NAMES who quote Hitler in their sig file and claim descendancy from Caligula.
-- cut--
She has a handy little plastic "Oklahoma Access card". The gov't did away with commodities and food stamps so people wouldn't feel bad being seen using them and gave them credit card looking things ...---cut--
I think the reason you list here is not correct. It is much more likely that the government decision makers determined that it is a more efficient use of tax dollars to make these transactions electronic ones. The savings of not having to pay for printing and distribution of the stamps, including the redemption side of the equation probably were greater than the cost to run the program electronically.
Your frustration and anger may have other valid foundations. " ...so people wouldn't feel bad being seen using them... " just isn't one of them.
It's no fair. You guys on the left get movie stars on your side, we get forum posters WITH ALL CAPS NAMES who quote Hitler in their sig file and claim descendancy from Caligula.
Shame we don't keep funny score here, I'd give you a 10 for this one. :claps:
*Ahem*
You forgot to say it's Clinton's fault. An honest oversight, I'm sure. Carry on.
:lol: :notworthy
The savings of not having to pay for printing and distribution of the stamps, including the redemption side of the equation probably were greater than the cost to run the program electronically.
It could also diminish fraud by preventing the sale of food stamps. If you sell your card, you can't use it (or sell it again) next month. But if you've got a food stamp scam going on (ie you receive but don't need them), you can sell them each month as you receive them.
If a NASA monkey can pilot a space craft, he can pick fruit.
:lol: A multi-million dollar monkey picking fruit? That'll be a $50,000 peach, sir. Pay in cash at the register.
Radar, I am willing to make a significant wager I, not only have more education than you, but also a better quality education than you do. While earning my education at my universities, I was always given the impression that the more education one earns, the less one would have to call others names. How's the online GED coming along, Sport?
You'd lose that bet buddy. Not in your wettest dream do you have either a better education, or more education. In fact, you're pretty fucking stupid, and judging from your laughable posts, you're education is below 3rd grade level.
Ahh, I knew it wouldn't take long before some doomed fool brought up skin color. We're talking about skin color here, Dear Friend. We're talking about my tax dollars paying for people who weren't born here. Congratulations, by the way. You've earned the first, of many I'm sure, Race Card Alert Notice. You've taken the short cut to thinking by using race as the issue. Tell the good Rev. Sharpton I said hello, will you?
How is it irrelevant to point out that, out of fifty field installers at my company, 45 of them are Hispanic? We hire qualified people, and very few qualified Caucasians apply.
You tell *me* why one can never mention race as a factor in any way, shape or form without being labelled racist...unless, of course, one isn't Caucasian, in which case any amount of race card playing is par for the course.
And...be careful whom you label either fool or racist, eh? I'm neither.
NIC, wow. Fruit picking chimps, closing of borders, the quoting Adolf Hilter. Pretty adventuress. Only 42 Posts and already an outspoken, brave, feared, and disliked poster.
And now to quote a very brilliant fellow Cellarite: "Now watch as we wake up this troll."
I'm in Iraq, fighting terrorism from what they tell me, getting paid squat, spending a year away from my family, and I am constantly reading articles about Illegal Immigrants invading my own country. I would like to know why were are spending billions of dollars on this country, "fighting terrorism" and yet we throw away even more money at home by letting Illegals into the country to take more of our money.
The Illegals are bringing in disease, guns, drugs, possibly terrorists, gang members, and who knows what else, and we stand for it. We lose millions every year because of these people.
Sounds a lot like the same reasoning used in Rome. The men would go off to war with dreams of wealth and yet make squat when the war did not go right. Meanwhile Rome imported massive numbers of slaves to do the work. Those slaves were then accused of spreading disease and who knows what else. All the while those Roman troops could only be off on silly conquests because low paid slaves were being imported back home to do all the work.
Apparently you are reading much reactionary propaganda that conveniently forgets some facts; so that you will get all excited. Truth was not the purpose of those publications you are reading. If you get more excited, then they can manipulate you politically as well as sell you more of their nonsense propaganda sheets. Hype is routinely used to manipulate weak minds; which is why mental weight training is so essential to a strong America. Learn how those half-truth publication have you deceived.
Illegal immigrants are no different from the legal immigrants of years past. Just that some power brokers prefer to keep immigrants as second class residents using hype, fear, half-truths, government subsidized - corporate welfare, and immigration laws that don't address the problem. Do you also believe prohibtion of alcohol was successful? After all, prohibition, just like our immigration laws, simply creates increases in crimes (often by non-immigrants).
Did that article forget to mention all the unfair trading practices to enrich US Sugar? Did it mention how US Sugar then needs those immigrants to be illegal so as to keep their costs down? Why did those articles forget to mention that part?
Here's the thing:
My best friend's fiancee, from Croatia, had to pay money and have no less than 12 documents, two of which were from me, promising support and vouching for him while he was here.
He came to America and received a 6 month tourist Visa.
As Radar can attest, getting a person into the United States legally is expensive, time consuming, and red-tape deluged.
If Hrvoje works right now, he will be immediately deported. The government will not give him a green card, making him a "legal" and eligible to work. And personally, if someone willing to work after jumping through all those hoops to get here can't, then I don't think illegals should either.
Which sounds like something from the department of redundancy department, I know, and I'm not articulating this correctly, (I'm at work and rushed and my chain of thought is broken by dumb custo"moo"rs)... but it's not right that we let the illegasl stay and get special tax numbers and go to school and such when other people who are trying to be law abiding people can't even get here.
It really makes me mad.
Get Hrvoje married here on his tourist visa and pay more money to apply to live in US as a couple (its at least $250 and more papers). With temp residence status he can start working right now, wait a few years, go through the proof of bonafide marriage review, pay more then get the coveted green card. That is unless this is a same sex couple. Then youre outta luck.
PS Its a lot easier to enter the US when they dont think you are coming here to marry. And its still the tourist visa. So reveal the fiance part at your own risk. That can add 3 or more months to the wait and require that proof of support.
they can't get married until her divorce is final (it's been languishing for 3 years now in an arizona court, and there is nothing she can do to move it along, because she signed papers while she was in croatia. she can file for a NC divorce once she becomes a resident, in november. hrvoje has to leave in dec unless they get him an extension.)
the good news is that she had the baby (named him after me!!) and he is the father on the birth certificate, so since he is the immediate parent of the child, he is going to apply for a working visa and then citizenship.
but my point was how freaking hard it was to get him here, and illegals pour across the border and get medical and welfare and school and all kinds of crap, whereas while he is here, *I* can't even get that stuff, and if I even apply, he gets deported.
still mad. :mad:
He's here, he should apply for the temp residence/work visa ASAP, yesterday. If he has to leave it will be months to get back in legally, even if married.
I think you maybe romanticizing the amount of perks, the "all kinds of crap" garnered by illegal immigrants. I belive they also risk deportation as illegals, its just less of a hike, so it's less of a hassle I suppose. Also, there's the messy business of kids caught in it.
As for "get medical"...I dont think your fella would be turned away from the emergency room, either. And if he was 8, I bet he could get a seat in the local public school, at least for a while. if he had his shots.
I'm in Iraq, fighting terrorism from what they tell me, getting paid squat, spending a year away from my family, and I am constantly reading articles about Illegal Immigrants invading my own country.
If it :violin: 's really that bad, I think troops could go to their CO & tell them they are queer, insane, etc..... and get a discharge. If you can't handle being a soldier, I suggest you get your ass out. There are too many "real" troops dying to take your place........ so there.
It strikes me as odd that someone who is occupying a foreign country is complaining about illegal immigrants. Sorry, I'm weird that way.
As far as I can tell, there aren't 50 qualified white guys in the entire city who even want the jobs we offer (insulation, gutter and fireplace installation).
Ahh, I knew it wouldn't take long before some doomed fool brought up skin color. We're talking about skin color here, Dear Friend. We're talking about my tax dollars paying for people who weren't born here. Congratulations, by the way. You've earned the first, of many I'm sure, Race Card Alert Notice. You've taken the short cut to thinking by using race as the issue. Tell the good Rev. Sharpton I said hello, will you?
get a life and quit whining already.
and what the hell is a DOOMED fool........ can you share THAT with me? :eyebrow:
But just managing to walk across a fence and swim a river does not make you a citizen.[?QUOTE]
Never said it did, and I don't think anyone else here claimed that either.
[QUOTE=mrnoodle] But I'm curious....what would you say if you heard that the vast number of illegals coming across the border every year was being denied work and turned back at every doorstep they came to? I suspect that we would be considered evil and heartless, and the left would demand that "something be done," probably in the form of more tax money going to handouts.
Don't quit your day job just yet, Sherlock. As a card carrying member of the ACLU, here's how'd I respond: I'd demand that All US residents go down and have genetic testing to prove the amount of Native American blood flowing in their veins. Those with less than 50% I would demand be deported at once across the border into Mexico to make their way back to Europe or Africa or Juarez as best they could. I would then demand that Cherokee and Navajo be made the official languages of the country. Any white boy who protested against this would be required to learn the Ghost Dance and the Blessing Way and the Navajo Night Way, as well as memorize the complete text of
Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee. That should put the damned illegal immigrants in their place!
Right. So what are you arguing about?
Hint: Well, you could go back and read through this thread. Just a stray thought from my frenzied liberal brain...
The only way for this to occur is for American ranchers, etc., to hire them illegally. If they are here legally, they must be paid minimum wage. They could also unionize. The left is guilty of racism on this issue. Not the "hang all [race]" racism, but "you're [race], so you're obviously not equipped to follow the same rules as the rest of us. Because of your race, we'll give you a pass." Patronizing and wrong.
Damn, Noodle, you've got to stop getting all your information from folks like NICOTINE GUN and Zap Comix. Since when is it racist to suggest that perhaps American employers should be required to follow US law? Yeah, poor Americans. They're too stupid to ask a potential employee for a social security number of a green card. After all, they ARE products of the US school system and American talk radio. We can't ask the impossible of them.
So where would you personally draw the line? We can't let "all" of them in, so which ones should we allow? Which should we turn back? What is the point of cracking down on employers if you're not going to stem the supply of cheap, illegal labor? Maybe Nancy Reagan could come and tell them to Just Say No?
Excellent idea!
American Employer: "Gotta green card?"
Illegal Immigrant/Wetback: **shrugs shoulders and presents would-be employer with an old ticket to a soccer game held last year in Chihuahua**
American Employer: NO job for YOU!
Intimately. At any rate, I was agreeing with you. You shouldn't argue when people are agreeing with you. I was saying that there are 32 decent hardworking Mexicans per useless militia-member white nut.
Great! Then you know all about Forbes Trinchera, land grants made by the Spanish Crown and the stand off that occurred just over the Colorado border near Chama, New Mexico some years back. What were you agreeing with me about, by the way?
But I fell into the race trap, at any rate. My bad -- this isn't about race, as much as the left wishes it were.
Tisk, tisk. That'll learn you. We on the left adore the race trap. Walk in beauty, white boy! (If you can still walk after getting out of the briar patch you just threw yourself into)
Ooh. I have to call my Hispanic lawyer and make sure he got the whole $1700 for my DUI case. It almost broke me to pay him, but I'm sure his bambinos will appreciate the extra tortillas, particularly since he's in the Bahamas this week and can't support the family. :rolleyes:
What? You hired some cut rate spic lawyer from the Bahamas who doesn't even have a green card? You must have been drunk! :lol:
You'd lose that bet buddy. Not in your wettest dream do you have either a better education, or more education. In fact, you're pretty fucking stupid, and judging from your laughable posts, you're education is below 3rd grade level.
Ahhh, Radar. I remember when I used to rant and rave like that. It's funny you mentioned third grade because that is when I spoke like you do now. Ahh, youth truly is wasted on the young. Thank you, Radar. You make me remember why I want to be a better person. You run off now and hit the books, Little Trooper. Maybe we can work on penmanship tomorrow.
I remember when I used to rant and rave like that.
Cut the useless insults, guys. It only proves we need more illegal immigrants and should start deporting American citizens.
get a life and quit whining already.
and what the hell is a DOOMED fool........ can you share THAT with me? :eyebrow:
Doomed Fool: person destined to live a life of agony and mental anguish due to ignorance and failure to take the long road to thinking.
Cut the useless insults, guys. It only proves we need more illegal immigrants and should start deporting American citizens.
LOL
If it :violin: 's really that bad, I think troops could go to their CO & tell them they are queer, insane, etc..... and get a discharge. If you can't handle being a soldier, I suggest you get your ass out. There are too many "real" troops dying to take your place........ so there.
I realize you can't read fast, but I'm beginning to realize you can't think fast. Are you serious with your last little blurb. Did you read what I wrote? I never said I couldn't handle being a soldier. I've done things you only read about. My point was that it sucks being here doing what we do, meanwhile our own nation is being invaded. Take the spoon out of your mouth, spit out the garbage, feed yourself. You people are really starting to amaze me. It's like you pick one phrase from the paragraph and focus on it.
"Oooh, he said something with soldier in Iraq in it! He should just quit or say he is queer..ooooh, ooooh, let me write this down!"
"Oooh, Oooh, his signature is a quote from Hitler, he must be a Nazi, ooh, ooh."
I've done things you only read about.
Greetings infidel invader,
Perhaps you can show what a tough guy you are by breaking a nice little old misunderstood tyrant out of US confinement.
Or where you talking about something else, like fucking a spider monkey in the ass?
hey new guy: quit being a dick.
hey new guy: quit being a dick.
Bukkake: Japanese tradition of ejaculating on the face of woman who has been unloyal to her husband. Each of the town's men were provided the opportunity to ejaculate on the face of the man's wife who cheated on him. Sicko!!!!!!!!!
Or where you talking about something else, like fucking a spider monkey in the ass?[/QUOTE]
No, Saddam. I never touched your mother.
I never touched your mother.
My mother has done things you only read about.
My mother has done things you only read about.
LOL, was she in the one about the two vampire chicks, a rubber ball, three cases of rubber glue, and a tire iron? You're the man, Saddam.
i have serious doubts about nicotinegun's membership in the military, in general, and his presence in Iraq, specifically. just smells a little too much like a troll.
that may not be fair though. i've spent my years in the military associating with people that are actually able to analyze and synthesize info without making kneejerk reactions, but i'm sure there are a number of inbreeders who enjoy oversimplifying every issue to a soundbyte of blame. hell, somebody has to work the Public Affairs office, right?
[QUOTE=lookout123]i have serious doubts about nicotinegun's membership in the military, in general, and his presence in Iraq, specifically. just smells a little too much like a troll.
Doubt all you want, Sister. I'll send you a camel spider if you like. I never said I kicked down doors for a living. I imagine your thought process going as such: "Oooh, Ooooh, I'll say he smells like a troll. Yeah, that will be good. I'll send that to the Democrats. I bet they use in 08. Oooh, Oooh."
yep, you got me there. some of the self described democrats probably went into convulsions at the thought of Lookout being a democrat, but if that makes my skepticism easier for you to accept... whatever trips your trigger.
i'm not a D or an R. i am someone who as a conservative cringes when selfdescribed conservatives venture into my social networks and make asses of themselves. i am someone who asks for relatively level headed interaction. i am someone who absolutely despises people who define themselves by the amount of shit they can stir. i am someone who has spent a number of years in the military (enlisted - by choice) and has little tolerance for anyone who reinforces the stereotype of the knuckledragging, neanderthal grunt. i am someone who will gladly welcome you to the cellar if you will kindly separate the piss from the vinegar.
As an aside, I must say NICOTINEGUN does seem to have pretty free internet access above and beyond most of what our guys serving in Iraq generally have. But what do I know? Maybe they now give 1000 hours of free AOL issued with every tank. :rolleyes:
it depends on what his job is. when i was there many of the guys on the base were limited to 10 minute morale calls and intermittent computer access, but because of my job i always had the ability to call stateside unlimited and always had internet access. not everyone drives a tank or is a trigger puller.
*hell, i had better access over there thank i do here. EFF YOU NETNANNY! :lol:
As an aside, I must say NICOTINEGUN does seem to have pretty free internet access above and beyond most of what our guys serving in Iraq generally have. But what do I know? Maybe they now give 1000 hours of free AOL issued with every tank. :rolleyes:
It's my day off, Sister. But, like Lookout said, it does depend on what your job title is. I was recon for four years, so I've done my time. I can assure you, just because I'm not a shooter does not mean I'm not being shot at. I'm lucky. Yes, I'm on the computer. No, I don't kick down doors. However, I do get mortars dropped on my head. RPGs have flown over my head. I am away from my family, which I cherish most in life. So, here we are. Tankers rock, by the way. I've only met one tanker I didn't like. Anyway, remember this, I don't get aggresive until someone draws the proverbial first blood. Additionally, I assure you I am not a "knucle-dragger." I'm too far up in the trees for my knuckles to ever touch the ground.
Life is too short to be tight ass all the time. I couldn't care less if you support the War or not, but leave the whole "what's your job" thing alone, unless you been in a combat zone. It's ridiculous to even argue about. We're talking politics, right? Let's get it on!!!!!
You've completely derailed your own damn thread. YOU bring it back on subject.
just smells a little too much like a troll.
Does the infidel smoke, by any chance? Googling "nicotinegun" returns some rather interesting results.
My mother has talked about kicking your ass. Be warned.
You've completely derailed your own damn thread
Sorry I'm late....traffic.
so........
How about we put a big electrified fence at the southern border to keep them out.
You've completely derailed your own damn thread. YOU bring it back on subject.
The Host, NICOTINEGUN
The site, The Cellar,
The topic, Illegal Immigrants and why they are or are not ruining America.
They come here illegally. They cost us millions. They bring in disease, guns, drugs, gang bangers, and possibly terrorism. However, they do pick fruit, clean, and do other odd jobs no one wants to do. The real issue: would you rather be lazy and let them do it, or continue to pave the Illegal's way with your tax dollars?
First caller, this the Bottom Line with Nicotinegun, you on....
How about we put a big electrified fence at the southern border to keep them out.[/QUOTE]
concrete, more stable, less easy to get through, it would create more jobs. Additionally we could implement my Baboons on Patrol Program. I would love a wall...and good military guarding it. But that's just me, I guess. I must be the only man in the U.S. who wants a wall around our nation to keep out illegal immigrants. Yep, the only one.
I just saw John Kerry.
i think at this point that the real topic of this thread is that NG is a dick. we've all already talked about immigration. I'm more interested in why this condescending fuck thinks it's ok to introduce himself ass first. Do you make a prick of yourself when you meet folks in person?
The sarcasm and tone are setting off my BSometer. I was thinking that it smacked of yet another iteration of multichiko when lo, she replies to him in the middle of the night. could we check the IP?
eh, this isn't mari. this one doesn't even sound off the same whiny hippy alarms.
Yeah, mari's been on her best behavior since coming back. Think we should let things fester for a while and see how it plays out?
NG's IP address originates from iraq.centcom.mil. Nuff said
i had already looked him up and he is a soldier. i didn't really doubt that he was, or that he was where he said he was. i also didn't doubt that he is making himself known as an asshole. he is providing legitimacy to misguided individuals like TW that think enlisted men are just uneducated bullet sponges.
If he is in the U.S. military and stationed in Iraq, he's a traitor and a gutless coward among his other charming traits. I'd be more than happy to tell him that to his face, and if he was stupid enough to take a swing, I'd just knock his dick in the dirt.
It's no fair. You guys on the left get movie stars on your side, we get forum posters WITH ALL CAPS NAMES who quote Hitler in their sig file and claim descendancy from Caligula.
It's a pretty good quote, though.
If he is in the U.S. military and stationed in Iraq, he's a traitor and a gutless coward among his other charming traits. I'd be more than happy to tell him that to his face, and if he was stupid enough to take a swing, I'd just knock his dick in the dirt.
:corn:
Tankers rock, by the way.
At last something we agree upon. Go 3/3ACR! You guys stay safe and come home soon! Yea, armored cav! Yea, all you brave guys in the tank divisions! We love you!
**We now return you to your regularly scheduled wierdness**
If he is in the U.S. military and stationed in Iraq, he's a traitor and a gutless coward among his other charming traits. I'd be more than happy to tell him that to his face, and if he was stupid enough to take a swing, I'd just knock his dick in the dirt.
My goodness what a wicked tongue on such a well educated Chick. Look Sister, I'm here. You're not. It's pretty easy to be tough on the Internet isn't it? Trembling with anger, furiously pumping out threats on the keyboard, all the while hunkered down beneath the soft glow of your monitor, music not too loud so you don't wake up your mother, feeling like a giant, eh, eh?
We got another Ooh, Ooh, uhhh, uhhhh, he's in the Army, uhh, uhh, so I'll call him a traitor, yeah, Ooh, Ooh, I'll tell him I'll kick his ass. Yeah, Ooh, Ooh.
Radar, Get out of the basement, go the gun shop, by the damn shotgun and a sleeping bag, put the bag in the tub, yourself in the bag so your folks don't have to clean up such a mess, and end your pathetic life.
i had already looked him up and he is a soldier. i didn't really doubt that he was, or that he was where he said he was. i also didn't doubt that he is making himself known as an asshole. he is providing legitimacy to misguided individuals like TW that think enlisted men are just uneducated bullet sponges.
Lookout, read between the lines, Sister. That is the best you Dwellers can do? "Oooh, Oooh, call him stupid, and a bullet sponge. Ooh, Ooh, call him uneducated. Hmmm, what else do the Demoncrats do, hmmmmm. Ooh, call him a racist, yeah."
Keep it coming though. With people like you on the side of the Demoncrats the Conservatives or the Libertarians could put Screech from "Saved By the Bell" up for the next Presidential election and win. Good work, though. Seriously. You make my job of opening up people's eyes much easier.
[QUOTE=lumberjim]i think at this point that the real topic of this thread is that NG is a dick. we've all already talked about immigration. I'm more interested in why this condescending fuck thinks it's ok to introduce himself ass first. Do you make a prick of yourself when you meet folks in person?
Great work! I see Phoenix Online has produced another great future leader of America.
Ooh ooh NICOTINEGUN said ooh ooh! Ooh ooh, he calls people Sister, ooh ooh.
I don't think the Dwellars have any reason to do their best with you. You're an amusing temporary diversion, suitable for occasional tweaking.
Nicotine...
I'm not here to insult you but to be serious. I did not completely read the topic but i read a few pages so correct me if i'm wrong.
It seems you hate immigrants from Mexico (I know the situation; I had a project on it in school a few years ago) because they are stealing the jobs from the common American inhabitants. But the problem is, in my point of view, that the world is one big lump of... well... earth, and we have all been put here as humans (whoever did that; great job...), all looking for a meaning in their life and trying to make it enjoyable. But if we keep seeing people from other countries as different species, cause that's what most of us are doing, we're not going to get very far. The world is one big country in my point of view and this might be an idealistic view but we should try to treat eachother that way.
Mexico is a poor country, at least most of the people life under bad circumstances. Their neighbours on the other hand, America, are very wealthy in many points of view. So how can you ever expect those poor Mexicans not to want going to America if the level of welfare there is so much higher as in their homeland. You can't blame them. At least I can't. We should all work together to make the world a better place and banning people from other countries out of your country isn't the way (in my point of view). It might seem like a great idea at first but over time it will only cause more problems as we see with the illegal immigrants.
Second, I think the foremost reason of being angry at the immigrants for the bad state of your own life is projection. Projecting your own unhappiness about the way things are going on a scarecrow, which in these case is the Mexican population. This is very primitive in my point of view.
If you take any of this as an insult; it wasn't meant that way.
Think about it...
:lol2:
very temporary. Like only until ng finds his way back into whatever echo chamber where he's accustomed to posting. Where he's accustomed to hearing the sound of his own voice and others in perfect harmony. That's the principal cause for his obvious unease here. We don't all think like him; we don't all think alike. Poor guy.
Ooh ooh NICOTINEGUN said ooh ooh! Ooh ooh, he calls people Sister, ooh ooh.
I don't think the Dwellars have any reason to do their best with you. You're an amusing temporary diversion, suitable for occasional tweaking.
Are all of you drinking the same Koolaid? Or is this more of a cult thing? Someone, anyone, just give me this: explain what this mystic thing the Cellar is all about.
Is it a debate site? Is it a place for people to just hang out and chat? Seriously, what is the fucking deal here? This site was recommended to me specifically for the profound and meaningful discussion (no I'm not kidding.)
I get "dickhead, asshole, Nazi, I'll kick your ass, you're stupid, etc, etc." You people want to rumble or what? Are you all friends? Is this a social club? Please, explain it to me. Maybe I got the wrong idea about this place. Let me know, People. "Throw me a friggin bone here, People. I'm the boss. I need the info."
And since I'm one of the Family now, Radar enough with the private emails of you on the horse with the thing on your.....and the stuff on your ....I'm not interested.
Are all of you drinking the same Koolaid? Or is this more of a cult thing? Someone, anyone, just give me this: explain what this mystic thing the Cellar is all about.
Did you not spend any time reading and getting a feel for The Cellar before you whipped out your pepe and started hosing it around? You've come on almost as big an ass in your first week on the board as I've seen so far. Dial it down, listen for a bit, and perhaps you'll discover what The Cellar is and why everyone thinks you are a twit right now.
I'm brand new here and even I am bothered with the statements you make. You asked why? Well... I saw you didn't even took the time to read my last post on this topic where I explained in my best words why I think your vision is closed-minded. Take time to read it and you'll at least know why I think you've acted like a fool. I can't speak for the others 'cause i've only been here since... today.
Are all of you drinking the same Koolaid? Or is this more of a cult thing? Someone, anyone, just give me this: explain what this mystic thing the Cellar is all about.
Is it a debate site? Is it a place for people to just hang out and chat? Seriously, what is the fucking deal here? This site was recommended to me specifically for the profound and meaningful discussion (no I'm not kidding.)
I get "dickhead, asshole, Nazi, I'll kick your ass, you're stupid, etc, etc." You people want to rumble or what? Are you all friends? Is this a social club? Please, explain it to me. Maybe I got the wrong idea about this place. Let me know, People. "Throw me a friggin bone here, People. I'm the boss. I need the info."
The Cellar is about you get what you give - kind of like life. When I first got on this board, I immediently jumped into a huge argument with everyone. That's what happens if you show up with an attitude and an unorthodox outlook. If you stick around, you may learn about the ignore feature and also begin to figure out that if you start calling people names, you'd better be prepared to get called names right back.
If you are going to take an extreme position, at the very least do it with wit and maybe even a couple of back-up cites for your opinion. Trying to bludgeon people over the head with insults will win you few adherents to your cause. If you look back over a thread and realize that you were being a whiney hippy or a belligerent soldier of fortune, it doesn't hurt to admit to this and make some sort of minimalist apology.
People here will actually sometimes respond intelligently if you post intelligently. They may very intelligently feed your personal sacred cow to the slaughterhouse, too.
:idea: :flamer: :mecry:
:cool:
Is it a debate site?
Yes
Is it a place for people to just hang out and chat?
Yes.
Are you all friends?
Yes, no, sort of. If you mean, in real life, some are some aren't.
Is this a social club?
Yes.
Please, explain it to me. Maybe I got the wrong idea about this place.
And maybe I've got the wrong idea about you. I've known perfectly nice people before who had trouble interacting with people.
Seriously, what is the fucking deal here? This site was recommended to me specifically for the profound and meaningful discussion (no I'm not kidding.)
I'm not surprised. That's really what sets this place apart. However, it's a give and take. You've gotta give meaningful discussion to get it. Looking back at your post history, it looks like you started OK (though dangerously, with a poem), got wobbly with the blaming of PC on Clinton, and fell over when you got in a pissing match with Radar.
Pissing matches are for advanced Dwellars only.
Are all of you drinking the same Koolaid? Or is this more of a cult thing? Someone, anyone, just give me this: explain what this mystic thing the Cellar is all about.
--snip--
I get "dickhead, asshole, Nazi, I'll kick your ass, you're stupid, etc, etc." You people want to rumble or what? Are you all friends? Is this a social club? Please, explain it to me. Maybe I got the wrong idea about this place. Let me know, People. "Throw me a friggin bone here, People. I'm the boss. I need the info."
And since I'm one of the Family now, Radar enough with the private emails of you on the horse with the thing on your.....and the stuff on your ....I'm not interested.
Again with the insults... :rolleyes: Short answer: you reap what you sow.
Seriously, what is the fucking deal here? This site was recommended to me specifically for the profound and meaningful discussion (no I'm not kidding.)
Well, why don't you ask the person who made the recommendation? We're not hiding anything here, we haven't become something different in your presence than what we were before (and after, I reckon). We know *squat* about you, save what you've posted and we've read in the past couple of days. You're being treated accordingly.
You apparently know *squat* about us, too. But that simply can not be because you have so little to go on. More than 8000 threads and 20 times that number of posts and you've read how much? And from what you've read, how does it compare with the tenor of the discussions of which you've been a part? I see no inconsistency.
So if the profound and meaningful discussions aren't floating your boat, maybe you should consider the source of the recommendation. Maybe you've been punked! I would make the same recommendation, I have made the same recommendation, but only to people who would "get it". You have a lot of control over whether or not you're in that group. It's a self selecting group;
are you in or are you out?
<--wonders if NG has razor blades on his thumbnails
maybe if we stop feeding him he'll go away. It worked for that puny, mangy mutt that was hanging around my house last month.
What was this thread about anyway?
maybe if we stop feeding him he'll go away. It worked for that puny, mangy mutt that was hanging around my house last month.
Urbane Guerrilla?
Random Cellarite Fact: TW once challenged a dead woman to a staring contest. The corpse nearly won, until TW's famous humor made her laugh.
It’s called deadpan humor. Once you get them to smile, then slide them into a crematorium.
maybe if we stop feeding him he'll go away...
Don't make him go away. The one benifit he has for me is that all this makes me feel better about the first time I entered the Cellar. Changing my member name after 15 or so posts, you would've thought I was the biggest assclown on the planet. I guess it can be worse. Thanks NIC.
The problem NIC is that you come across as combative right out of the chute. Before you get to know anyone, expose your personality to anyone here, you come across as angry and looking for a fight. People tend to forget that just because this is all done online and not in person, that social rules do not apply. It's like if you walked into a room full of people you hadn't met before, and before you even introduced yourself, you announced, "What dipshit here believes we ought to close the borders." You don't know who your talking to. You dont know what race the people here are.
call him uneducated
wow, NG - once again you've managed to skim through a post, pull out only one sentence, filter it through your delusions and go off on a tangent because you missed the point of the post. good job.
Lookout, read between the lines, Sister. That is the best you Dwellers can do? "Oooh, Oooh, call him stupid, and a bullet sponge. Ooh, Ooh, call him uneducated. Hmmm, what else do the Demoncrats do, hmmmmm. Ooh, call him a racist, yeah."
Pffffffft! Lookout, he thinks you're a democrat! Damn, boy, I always knowed you wuz really a closet Liberal! :lol:
ah, hell - i'm a little a this and a little a that. that is what happens when you think all the parties are the devil's concubines.
With the Mexico thing, I don't hate the people. I am angry with the fact that tax payers money paves their way. I wanted to get a feel for what others think about the situation. The fact is, I talk about it with people here and they don't have a clue as to what it costs our nation. It's very aggrivating.
I know if we all met in a room without having any idea who anyone was not one of you would ever guess I was the Gun. I'm sure I would never guess who Radar was, or even Lookout. I'm not the Devil. I'm bored out of my fucking mind. I miss my family. I am profoundly upset with the way things are going in America and it seems the only way to wake people up is to make them mad as hell.
I am looking for the possibility of creating real solutions to the problems at hand. We need change. We won't have it until enough people get together and do something about it. Obviously, you guys don't feel the same about the immigration problem as I do.
As far as citing my sources, I'm not one to make up information and put it out into the ozone for all to read. If I write something that is fiction, you will know by the tone of the piece. I'm not a Hippy by any means. The hippy culture had the right idea with loving people, but soon realized they needed money and the system to survive. I'm all for treating everyone the same. I don't care if you are gay, straight, black, white, Christian, Muslim, tall, short, green, have two heads, or even if you are Democrat. What pisses me off though, is when things are shoveled down my throat, like paying for other's way.
Additionally, some of the stuff you people say makes me laugh my ass off. Lumberjim wrote up a serious little ditti for me and then added "don't forget to eat a dick." That's funny. I'll drop the razorblades, Brother, but please give me something interesting to talk about-I deal with data all day. I deal with desert camo ALLLLLLL DAY. I want intelligent conversation. Don't take everything I say to heart. Of course I don't want Radar to climb into the tub and shoot himself. I don't know him at all.
Anyway, I'm here to stay. If I can't get anything meaningful to talk about in the real world, I'm going to find it anywhere I can.
Have a great day, People.
<--wonders if NG has razor blades on his thumbnails
Should I begin with the enormous one on top of your shoulders and then use the one between your legs as a toothpick?
Thanks for the laugh.
Obviously, you guys don't feel the same about the immigration problem as I do.
and that statement right there is what we are talking about. you obviously haven't spent much time browsing through old posts because if you had you would realize there are a number of us who are extremely concerned about illegal immigration. what makes the cellar different than most boards is that, for the most part, we try to avoid pissing on each other's shoes while discussing issues. insults out. rational post in. your condescension is what ignited the little shitstorm around you.
something to keep in mind in the cellar (and life, general): no matter how smart, good, educated, funny you think you are, someone in here is more of those things. that is life. stick around awhile, quit trying to talk down to people and you may just realize that there is a lot of knowledge traded in the cellar.
Additionally, some of the stuff you people say makes me laugh my ass off. Lumberjim wrote up a serious little ditti for me and then added "don't forget to eat a dick."
ok. for someone who profeses to be so well educated and smart......that's twice that you've replied to my signature line. do you see the little line down there? everything after it is a signature. if you're not sure, look at another of my posts...it'll be the same.
the razorblades on the thumbs thing is a reference for
this hoser that visited for a brief time. take the time to read that
thread.I am not a part of this thread at all, but I wanted to butt in and thank lumberjim for the link to one of the funniest things I have seen on this forum yet!
That "Rich" guy was too much!! lolololol freakin' unbelievable!
welcome to the cellar seakdivers. Check out Lily if you want to read up on another funny troll.
Capn - I just did...... where do these people come from? Oh well, they're good for a laugh I guess. :)
I am profoundly upset with the way things are going in America and it seems the only way to wake people up is to make them mad as hell.
Hey, you know what? You are not alone. Many of us are mad as hell about various things. I have typed through fire storms that I myself mostly created on this board because I was so filled with rage. Take it from one who has been there - rage does not get your message across. It will get everyone else angry, though - at YOU!
I am looking for the possibility of creating real solutions to the problems at hand. We need change. We won't have it until enough people get together and do something about it. Obviously, you guys don't feel the same about the immigration problem as I do.
See, as Lookout already pointed out, there's your problem. You are jumping in here cold and making assumptions about our opinions that you simply don't have enough information on to assume
anything about. Mistaking Lookout for a Democrat is a whopper. He may hold some views which are congruent with that of the Democratic party, but if so, this is the first I've heard of it. So, voting for social spending, now, Lookout? Save the whales? Say, how about all those spics you keep inviting over the border to come share your home in Phoenix?
NG, if you don't make assumptions about us, chances are most of us will return the favor and not make assumptions about you.
As far as citing my sources, I'm not one to make up information and put it out into the ozone for all to read. If I write something that is fiction, you will know by the tone of the piece. I'm not a Hippy by any means. The hippy culture had the right idea with loving people, but soon realized they needed money and the system to survive.
Follow your bliss on the cites thing, NG. I'm a former librarian and college teacher, so I can get a bit prissy that way. I'm sure that every single word you post is God's honest truth as you understand it, but for those of us who were off chasing butterflies or something while the word from on high was handed down, its incredibly helpful to be pointed toward the reliable source from which you derived your opinion.
The hippy thing was not aimed at you, but rather my own little acknowledgement of a nice barb directed at me from Lookout. Yes, I suppose that I must seem like a whiney hippy at times, just as you have come off as a soldier of fortune whacko. I suspect that we each are far more than the sum of the epithets that others throw at us. ;)
Soooooo, did you see the game last night?
I'm not a troll. Maybe a dwarf, but not a troll. I have hair on my feet like a hobbit, but I'm more dwarfish, maybe husky is the word? I'm a husky dwarf, but not a troll by any means. It's 2 a.m. here. I have duty in 2 hours I couldn't sleep and I'm in the Cellar with you people. So fuck it. Lets get off the topic and start a new one.
welcome to the Cellar NG.
Semper Fi.....................
Lets get off the topic and start a new one.
ThreadHiJackMan is out today due to a lack of gas to run his Vespa.
So....
Might I suggest that instead of spending so much time arguing here in CE or the Politics sexshun, that you submit more of your creative works, assuming that you have more.
I regret having to bring this thread up again, but one of the people covering Katrina cleanup efforts showed film of busloads of hispanic immigrants being BROUGHT IN from North Carolina by one retailer, to clean up his facilities! If this is not the absolute utmost, preposterous, non-PC joke yet! 68,000 people out of work in the area so he imports immigrants.
If interviewed, would he have said, as did Mexican President Vicente Fox, that this is work that he can't even find blacks who would take it?
Well, they are paying below the prevailing wage....
Yeah, Bush suspended the Davis-Bacon Act. :(
... one of the people covering Katrina cleanup efforts showed film of busloads of hispanic immigrants being BROUGHT IN from North Carolina by one retailer, to clean up his facilities! ... 68,000 people out of work in the area so he imports immigrants.
The underlying political agenda implied in this and so many previous posts is why I have less respect for extremist Democrats and Republicans. If the logic behind this post was correct, then FEMA should never have brought in their own people. Instead FEMA should have employeed the displaced locals.
No job can be performed without training. Even unskilled labor requires training to what must be cleaned in a store, how cleaning is done, with what, and how each person works within the team. Do I go around seeking the original workers in LA and MS who are long gone, scattered, cannot be contacted, etc? Of course not. For the benefit of society in MS and LA, my store must be cleaned and operating yesterday. I bring in organized, equipped, ready, and willing to work people from NC who already know how to clean my stores. I get them in. I support them. I get my store cleaned and working. And then I get my employees home to NC.
That picture, misrepresented as people stealing jobs, is instead how a centrist does things - how someone who 'comes from where the work gets done' solves the Katrina disaster. And not by throwing money at it like George Jr. proposed in his last speech.
Notice a #1 point here. Management with a plan. Notice there is no throwing money at a problem. Money is used here as a scapel - get people in who can do the job, provide people who are properly equipped, get the job done, and then get them back home. Nothing from any Democratic or Republican political agenda should ever appear in this 'can do' solution.
Meanwhile, to mention immigration and border problems in this 'can do' solution is nothing more than political extremist rhetoric. For example, any discussion about drug smuggling without first endorsing the realities even expressed in the movie "Traffic" is simply another example of why political agendas (not the drug dealers) are the #1 problem. Even the immigration problem is directly traceable to those who refuse to admit why immigrants must come here - legally or illegally.
All of which is irrelevant to what that store needs done now to advance mankind in LA and MS. Those pictures, when put into proper perspective, demonstrate what 'can do' people, unimpeded by FEMA lawyer top management, do to help the victims in LA and MS.
Sorry. I have no respect for the Democratic and Republican extremist rhetoric - reasoning justified by political agendas - that underlies some previous posts in this thread.
Even the immigration problem is directly traceable to those who refuse to admit why immigrants must come here - legally or illegally.
Why must they come here. :question:
If i lived in Ms or La, I would prolly be WAY too busy sweeping my own front steps to have time to be employed by a beaurocratic orginization to sweep around others'.
Point well made , TW. It would be totally obteuse (IMO) to campain amongst the residents there to "pitch in and help cleanup". For crissakes what the hell ARE they doing? Maybe trying to secure grounds for their own families? Get a daggum streetsign off their sofa? Precisely.
Hell, I'd love to go give a hand in their recovery but I can bearly find the time to keep capnhowdy's place running smoothly and I haven't seen any kin to a disaster here stronger than a lightning strike 80 yds away in since I remember.
The "unemployed" people there are not jobless. They are there to regain their ground and get their lives together collectively.
All phases of public service from all areas of the country should be there ALONG WITH the local people.
It chaps my cheeks to look at the news vidclips and see loads of natives just standing there stumbling over debris, etc., looking hopeless when they could just get their asses up and DO something about it instead of waiting and wondering where and when the next wave of help will hail. But hell, I can see where they may be in "shock" so to speak.
One of my customers had a guest a couple weeks ago that were from NO. They were speechless, scared , bewildered, and devastated about the whole damn thing. They weren't exactly sure about their property, but had seen video of places near there. I was impressed mostly by one thing: ALL THE HELL THEY WANTED TO DO WAS GET BACK AND CHECK ON ....... their community. RE: Uncle Jack, brother Jimmy, Joe , John, Bob, & Julian. And that lady that just moved in they hadn't learned her name yet. Sure they were concerned about their place. And I bet my ass when they got there they went to work and didn't sit on their asses and whine about why someone didn't send someone else to do whoodefuck knowswhoosjob.
I won't comment on GW's actions and response for reasons ,...well just guess & you'll most likely be close; but I WILL say I'd hate to have his job in these times of woe and want. These are fellow countrymen and we should ALL stand strong for and with them.
I say again: God bless America.
And I'm thankful also that THIS TIME we're not too busy helping other freakin people outside our part of the world to help our own. Or are we?
That's all I gotta say about that. :cool:
i'll have to do some research but I just can't help but wonder: What is the immigrant/ native ratio in this area?
Call me lazy.... I've been called worse.
THE VOTING PUBLIC IS ULTIMATELY RESPONSIBLE FOR THE ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT PROBLEM. IF WE WOULD VOICE OUR OUTRAGE TO THE POWERS THAT BE THEY WOULD MOVE TO REMEDY. IT'S ALL ABOUT BEING RE-ELECTED.
Welcome to the Cellar, SCHUNE. :biggrin:
You are sooooo right.