Those Funny Folks at PETA Are at it Again
[SIZE=3]Activists want fish off aquarium menu[/SIZE]
An animal rights group has called on one of the largest aquariums in the United States to stop serving fish to its visitors, likening the practice to grilling up "poodle burgers at a dog show."
More nutty goodness
here.
They're not even TRYING to sound normal anymore. Anyway, I doubt the aquarium features cod and....what's that stuff they make fishsticks out of? haddock?
These are the same sort of people who boycotted Burger King to force them to change the name of their fish sandwich, The Whaler. (Yes, I do realize said boycott predated the formation of PETA. I'm just saying it was the same sort of nutters).
Why does it never occur to these people to do what they want, but understand that other people will continue to do what they want.
Hmmm. Maybe I'll have some burgers instead of the cereal this morning.
I'm sending in their idea to the Westminster Kennel Club. Mmmm, poodle burgers.
I can see the headline: Poodle Burger Wins Best In Show!
:question: I'm wondering how a little beastie like a fish, who, IIRC, has a memory of 2-3 seconds, can be considered "intelligent and sensitive". How can you tell?
They cry a lot. You have to test the salinization of the tank water to really know.
how a little beastie like a fish,
and more importantly - where has BEESTIE been for the last month?
*thread hijack complete*
My Oscars just look at whatever anyone else is eating, and you can tell they're thinking "Give me that...want that...feed me that."
They also think that while they're looking at the cats...and my fingers...and the feeder fish I put in there with them.
If we eat sushi, is it okay, then? 'Cause that's raw fish, and that's what other fish eat.
last summer there was a group protesting kangaroo burgers, they had news coverage of the protest in the paper the day before the protest. dumbasses. they helped the restaurant sell out!!! everyone that came to that restaurant that day came there to spite the peta peddlers. when we were driving off one of them said something to me and i thanked her for letting me know about the protest through the chronicle and that the kanga burgers were tasty!! (albeit a bit dry but good nevertheless) :yum: anyway, the look on her face went from a smile to ohmygod how sad! priceless.
My Oscars just look at whatever anyone else is eating, and you can tell they're thinking "Give me that...want that...feed me that."
One of my favorite Chinese restaurants (Abacus in Lansdale, PA) has a huge tank with all kinds of interesting and mysterious looking fish including an angelfish, a lionfish, and a really pissed off looking eel.
Towards the end of the night they throw a whole bunch of leftovers (looks mostly like egg roll innards) at the fish.
Yantze, where I've gone for Chinese New Year the last few years is Abacus' sister restaurant and they feed their koi in the pond that runs along the side wall in a similar manner.
Let us not forget, however, that PETA has done some outstanding things that many of you gentlemen here CAN appreciate. For instance, they persuaded Paty Manterola, one of Mexico's hottest actresses, to pose naked in a cage with her entire body painted as a tiger in order to protest the un-natural performances that Ringling Brothers Circus was forcing their animals to do. The idea was to show Hispanics that they should boycot the circus. Somehow I don't think the message got across... :mg:
http://www.petaenespanol.com/pdf/manterola-bb.jpg
If somebody can help me link the photo to this page, it will be worth it ;)
If we eat sushi, is it okay, then? 'Cause that's raw fish, and that's what other fish eat.
Well, some fish like to eat us, too, 'specially if we're swimming in the Gulf of Mexico. Fair is fair, I say.
Welcome bluecuracao!
I think those fishies really don't like to eat us. Just parts. Like, calves, fingers, you know, dangly bits.
*shrinkage*
when someone drowns in the gulf one of the first fish at them is the trigger fish. when ever i go offshore fishing i'll throw those little bastards back even though people rave about how good they are to eat.
Well, some fish like to eat us, too, 'specially if we're swimming in the Gulf of Mexico. Fair is fair, I say.
Blue Baby! So good to see you! :) Welcome to The Cellar.
Let us not forget, however, that PETA has done some outstanding things that many of you gentlemen here CAN appreciate. For instance, they persuaded Paty Manterola, one of Mexico's hottest actresses, to pose naked in a cage with her entire body painted as a tiger in order to protest the un-natural performances that Ringling Brothers Circus was forcing their animals to do. The idea was to show Hispanics that they should boycot the circus. Somehow I don't think the message got across... :mg:
http://www.petaenespanol.com/pdf/manterola-bb.jpg
If somebody can help me link the photo to this page, it will be worth it ;)
I am wholeheartedly in support of PETA's efforts to parade around nude people, and I support their right, nay, their *imperative* to do so.
I like to look at the news pics of such events while eating a big, juicy steak.
PETA's campaign in the US attempted to get well-known actresses to stand nude behind a sign that said "I'll go naked before I'll wear fur". There is a photo of that somewhere too. The names of better-endowed actresses who participated slips my mind at this time, but I remember that they got busted (forgive the pun) by some of New York's Finest before things got out of hand (sorry, the puns keep slipping out) :p
Is that what you call them? Puns? I've never heard them called that before. Cute.
You guys must miss all the good stuff by not watching Hispanic television. Today, from Pamplona, Spain, film of PETA's protest against the Running of the Bulls. It's cruel, you know :rolleyes:
The world saw at least six lovely young women dressed in nothing at all except black panties and huge bull's horns mounted on their heads :mg: One can only hope that no bulls were harmed in order to acquire said horns, but everything else was ALL natural.
One young man was also present in part of the film, but since you could only see to his waist we don't know how many horns ..... nevermind.
Is that a cable channel? :confused:
I like this quote from the article linked in the OP:
Jerry Schubel, aquarium president, said in a statement that the facility served only sustainable and environmentally friendly fish and was committed to educating the public about conserving ocean environments.
Does anybody want to explain to me what an environmentally UNfriendly fish is? What? Do they litter the bottom of the ocean floor with the wrappers from their poodle burgers?
Tonchi, I knew I needed to start watching Spanish language cable channels more often and you have confirmed the intuition I've been having in that regard.
I will say that I do consider bull fighting to be a cruel sport, though.
...
Does anybody want to explain to me what an environmentally UNfriendly fish is? ...
Sharks with Frickin' LASER BEAMS on their frickin' heads!
And if we can't get that, how about really, really mean sea bass?
Whales with diarrhea have long caused conflict for Greenpeace ... use the Rainbow Warrior to protect them, or ram them because they are spilling raw sewage into the oceans? What to do, oh what to do?
[National Lampoon Radio Hour] Please give generously to Save the Whales Before They Blast Themselves Into Extinction. [/National Lampoon Radio Hour]
Does anybody want to explain to me what an environmentally UNfriendly fish is?
Fish that have been transplanted by humans into ecological niches where they raise hell. :(
Fish that have been transplanted by humans into ecological niches where they raise hell. :(
Wouldn't one WANT to eat them in such cases? It WOULD be one way of getting rid of them and solving the problem. Here! Have a nice plate of lamprey eels!
No but plenty of people eat bass and brown trout that are killing off native species to name a couple of the hundreds if not thousands of problems. :(
Ooooh, I hate those damn German brown trout that are crowding out all our nice little native brook trout and rainbows out here. Those brown trout don't even taste that good - not to my palate, anyhow. I don't know how we can get rid of the awful things. If you hear of something, let me know!
Fish. Fish a lot. Until they're all gone.
I am a staunch supporter of PETV. Do you know that vegetables have feelings to? Think about that next time you bite into a carrot!
I support PETE. I can't think of anything that you should not treat ethically.
Carrot Juice is Murder - Arrogant Worms
Listen up, brothers and sisters
Come hear my desperate tale
I speak of our friends of nature
Trapped in the dirt like a jail
Vegetables live in oppression
Served on our tables each night
This killing of veggies is madness
I say we take up the fight
Salads are only for murderers
Cole slaw's a fascist regime
Don't think that they don't have feelings
Just 'cause a radish can't scream
{Refrain}
I've heard the screams of the vegetables, scream scream scream
Watching their skins being peeled, having their insides revealed
Grated and steamed with no mercy, burning off calories
How do you think that feels, bet it hurts really bad
Carrot juice constitutes murder, and that's a real crime
Greenhouses prisons for slaves, let my vegetables grow
It's time to stop all this gardening, it's dirty as hell
Let's call a spade a spade, it's a spade it's a spade it's a spade
I saw a man eating celery
So I beat him black and blue
If he ever touches a sprout again
I'll bite him clean in two
I'm a political prisoner
Trapped in a windowless cage
'Cause I stopped the slaughter of turnips
By killing five men in a rage
I told the judge when he sentenced me
"This is my finest hour
I'll kill those farmers again
Just to save one more cauliflower"
{Refrain}
How low as people do we dare to stoop
Making young broccolis bleed in the soup
Untie your beans, uncage your tomatoes
Set potted plants free, don't mash that potato, ah
I've heard the screams of the vegetables scream scream scream
Watching their skins being peeled fates in the stir fry are sealed
Grated and steamed with no mercy you fat gourmet scum
How do you think that feels leave them out in the fields
Carrot juice constitutes murder V8's genocide
Greenhouses prisons for slaves yes your compost's a grave
It's time to stop all this gardening take up macramé
Let's call a spade a spade it's a spade it's a spade it's a spade
Uh, I'll be sure to give my uneaten side salad a proper funeral.
Anyone else think PeTA's actual purpose is to discredit the animal-rights philosophy? Their campaigns routinely, maybe usually, backfire. Coincidence, sabotage, or just plain lack of talent?
Option 3.
Ad execs eat red meat.
And drink martinis.
And smoke.
You can't have a good ulcer and heart attack without 'em.
Nobody Knows the Trouble They've Seed
NEW HAVEN — A two-hour animal rights demonstration on the Green Monday sparked outrage instead of sympathy from the public.
"This is the most racist thing I’ve ever seen on the Green. How dare you," roared Philip Goldson, 43, of New Haven at the protest organizers at Church and Chapel streets.
People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals, a national animal rights group, posted giant photographs of people, mostly black Americans, being tortured, sold and killed, next to photographs of animals, including cattle and sheep, being tortured, sold and killed.
"I think it is an apt comparison," said Josh Warchol, 26, of Wallingford, president of the Southern Connecticut Vegetarian Society, which is aligned with PETA.
PETA officials said they had hoped to generate dialogue with the shocking photographs.
"We realize these images are hurtful. It’s hard for me to imagine the hurt the animals go through. We should be treating animals according to their own best interests, not to the best interests of people," said Dawn Carr, PETA’s director of special projects.
PETA wants people to stop eating animals, stop using them for clothing, stop forcing animals to entertain people (as in a circus) and stop animal experimentation.
Carr said she doesn’t want animals sold or treated as property either.
The controversial display, which is on a national tour, is intended to drive home PETA’s point.
However, critics said the organization’s demonstration backfired.
One man demanded that the NAACP get involved immediately. Five minutes later, Scot X. Esdaile, president of the state and Greater New Haven chapters of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, arrived at the scene, surveyed the photos and blasted the organizers.
"Once again, black people are being pimped. You used us. You have used us enough," Esdaile said. "Take it down immediately."
"I am a black man! I can’t compare the suffering of these black human beings to the suffering of this cow," said Michael Perkins, 47, of New Haven. He stood in front of a photo of butchered livestock hung next to the photo of two lynched black men dangling before a white mob.
"You can’t compare me to a freaking cow," shouted John Darryl Thompson, 46, of New Haven, inches from Carr’s face. "We don’t care about PETA. You are playing a dangerous game."
Paul Tomaselli, 46, of North Branford took exception to an exhibit that included a photo of a black man being beaten to the ground by a white man with a stick while a white mob gathers.
Next to that photo was one of a man chasing a seal across the snow with a club.
"I think he’s right," said Tomaselli, who is white, in support of Thompson. "To compare people to animals is an unfairness to people."
The display, "Are Animals the New Slaves?" is on a 10-week, 42-city tour that started in early July. Today’s stop: Scranton, Pa., then on to Baltimore and Washington, D.C.
"New Haven is important because of the Amistad. This is a place where slaves were brought. What happened here was very important for abolition. The next great liberation movement is animal liberation," Carr said.
However, the Anti-Defamation League, a national civil rights organization, has publicly condemned PETA’s use of photos comparing human suffering in the Holocaust to animal suffering today; PETA apologized in May for the hurt it caused but stood by the comparisons.
That point of disagreement became a flashpoint in New Haven.
"This is the most hostile audience we’ve had," said PETA volunteer Ben Godwin.
At one point, police hovered at the edge of the Green, across from the demonstration.
Eight of the 12 banners compared the suffering of black Americans to the suffering of cattle, sheep, an elephant, a seal and a rooster. Other banners showed Native Americans exiled from their homes, children in a factory and men in a counter-demonstration against women’s rights.
A photo showing a concentration camp inmate with a number tattooed across his emaciated chest was juxtaposed against a shot of a monkey in a laboratory with a number branded across its chest.
"I have relatives who were in concentration camps," said Alex Reznikoff, 47, of Newtown. "I think this detracts from PETA’s message. It doesn’t make me think about animals at all."
I wonder if they're just trying to see how stupid they can get away with being.
I mean, are they really trying to marginalize themselves?
They have nothing to offer but shock value. Their position is wholly rejected by the majority of their fellow carnivores, so they're stamping their feet and screaming like an attention-addicted 3 year old.
A backhand to the face usually takes care of that :boxers:
PETA. goes well with butter. seriously, if we just kill them, cook them, and eat them we will have no more PETA protesters and we will have our bellies full.
Let's see if I understand this...PETA essentially wants us to allow animals to do as they please, just like a human, right? Reproduce at will, wander the streets, invade our homes, spread disease, attack, kill and eat us in the woods?
Screw that. These people are nuts. What's next? Making animals stop eating each other?
come on patrick - they wouldn't eat eachother if they weren't psychologically damaged from their harassment and oppression from carniverous humans.
I'm an animal lover, but that story has got to be the stupidest, most insensitive thing I read in the last 20 minutes (the news is filled with examples of stupidity and insensitivity). Here PETA wants people to be sensitive to the suffering of our four-legged friends while showing NO sensitivity to the suffering of our two legged comrades. All PETA is doing is setting back their own cause. Why demand that everybody turn vegetarian, anyhow? Irs just not going to catch on. Far wiser to ask that animal experimentation be used only when absolutely necessary and that the meat that comes to our tables comes from animals which were processed in a humane a manner as possible, I visited one of those chicken "factory" type farms once. It was horrifying. Put me off chicken for an entire year. Now I eat chicken and eggs again, but only "free range" ones. PETA should work to effect changes like that and not use concentration camp victims or the mis-treatment of black Americans and compare these atrocities to chickens. :eyebrow:
Mari, I know that you, or others are likely to bust my shoes over this comment, but ...
you're awfully picky and elitist (free range chickens and eggs) for someone who says they've had to/been close to eating out of dumpsters.
Mari, I know that you, or others are likely to bust my shoes over this comment, but ...
you're awfully picky and elitist (free range chickens and eggs) for someone who says they've had to/been close to eating out of dumpsters.
Nah, I never said I was close to eating out of dumpsters. I've had to go to food banks in the past, but never dumpsters. One thing about this country is that there are many places where low income people can go get food donated by charities for free or at low cost. Here in Colorado we have something called Care and Share where you donate an hour or two a week to helping out and can get very good food, including fresh produce and meat and eggs, at half price.
If you ever visted a chicken factory, you'd be "picky and elistist", too. When I can't afford free range, I do without. Usually the eggs will go on sale at some point and I'll buy a couple of cartons then.
Jay Sherman ("The Critic"): What's that sulfur smell coming from the egg bin? Ah, it must mean the eggs have ripened. Wait a minute! Eggs don't ripen! Eggs don't ripen!
A backhand to the face usually takes care of that :boxers:
Wow. Camp sure has changed a lot since I've been there.
We don't take no crap from high schoolers :nadkick:
I visited one of those chicken "factory" type farms once. It was horrifying. Put me off chicken for an entire year. Now I eat chicken and eggs again, but only "free range" ones. PETA should work to effect changes like that and not use concentration camp victims or the mis-treatment of black Americans and compare these atrocities to chickens. :eyebrow:
Fast Food Nation anyone? If anything, that is what PETA should be against. Not people eating animals. If people don't kill the animal humanely, it's going to die a slow death by being picked by vultures and other scavangers.
I myself always found PETA to be condescending in a weird sort of way. From my view, they want equality for animals, no? Then why is it that people can't eat meat then? Other animals eat meat. We are like animals. So why can't we eat meat? It seems they view people above animals because we can chose not to eat other animals, which says we are above other animals, which is completely against equality.
And we all love their posters. Next big gathering they have, I wouldn't be suprised if they equated lab testing to partial birth abortion.
It's as if they want people to disband all civilization. Animals are nusances sometimes, such as chewing through electrical wires or getting stuck in transformers. I guess that's our fault for creating such a network that eases our lives.
Nude protester here in KC today. Barnum and Bailey's is coming to town, and PETA was here to protest the "enslavement and torture" of elephants. Yes, they did float the slavery comparison.
Once I again, I applaud PETA for their ongoing efforts to put lovely young women wearing only their panties out in the public eye for me to admire. Viva la protest! Freedom of Speech! Yay!
Back to my yummy steak dinner, now.
Man, those burgers were so tasty. And the lamb's blood I drank for dinner ran thick with clotty fats. And for desert, I ate a goat's skull.
Not really, but, had PETV known of my plans to fry onions on the grill, they'd have had me killed faster than... a cow munching grass.
And we all love their posters. Next big gathering they have, I wouldn't be suprised if they equated lab testing to partial birth abortion.
I think they support partial birth abortion, unless it involves cats.
No, I mean equate partial birth abortion to something like slaughtering cows. Say that the way a fetus was destroyed via PBA is the same as slitting a cows throat.
And yes, they probably would support it.
(I was making fun of PETA, not questioning you ... I would expect that kind of advertising from them as well. Or perhaps some stock footage from one of those Sally Struthers/children starving in Africa commericials. With the flies. Gotta have the flies.)
Yea... and lots of garbage picking. And then they'll show a picture of a beaver at a dam. And say that becuase of human advancement, this beaver has been forced to make his dam out of disposed plastics and garbage. And then flash forward to a dam made out of garbage.
And somehow they'd manage to give the image that flies eating African children is unethical... to the flies, that is. Somehow they'd portray some sort of idea of the "flies deserving better".
I'm pretty sure PETA would be okay if we'd all just kill ourselves and let the buzzards feast on our rotting carcasses. Well, non-vegetarians, anyway.
Yes, it would be unethical if somehow we disrupted the food chain. Although the food chain is disrupted everyday by creatures not of the human species.
I don't see anyone jumping to PETA's defense here -- not saying you animal rights ppl are cowards or anything.
Okay, I'll defend your position. I'll even try to win.
_______________________________________________
We are trying to make a point here. We find the use of animals to be equally degrading and cruel as the "use" of people without their consent. If you don't like the imagery we use, too damn bad.
Just because a cow can't verbalize its feelings doesn't mean it doesn't have any. Pain is pain, regardless. You're not claiming that the animals you slaughter don't feel pain, you're simply ignoring the fact because you don't want to change your lifestyle. A black man hanging from a tree bothers you, but a deer hanging there doesn't. Both were alive, both felt the pain of their passing.
It's pretty easy, actually. No living thing should have to suffer so that you can wear its skin or eat its meat. Humans possess the capability to save life and to avoid hurting others; forgive us, animal friends, for our failure to do so.
Abortion is okay, because that's feminist.
The way I see it, animals are living things that depend on consuming other living things for survival. The animal world is broken down into these categories: Animals that eat other animals are carnivores, omnivores eat other animals and plants, and herbivores eat just plant. Humans are animals, we are omnivores, that is how we are designed/evolved/whatever, nature is cruel and life survives off of death. However this is not to say that I agree with the inhumane ways of treating/killing animals to feed the population, but for some say that eating animals is wrong period, just seems absurd to me. I know its a lifestyle, and its just a personal choice, I just can't see the logic behind it.
Maybe I just like my hamburgers too much :yum:
Technology, while it has resulted in the suffering of untold millions of living beings, has also freed us from the necessity to "consume other living things" to survive. We can use our position as the most advanced species on the planet to find ways of living that minimize our horrendous impact on the world around us. You say we are just another living creature, and I agree -- we're no more important than the birds or the fish. So, why do we continue to rape the planet as if we were the ONLY things here?
I'm not saying that the predator/prey relationship is wrong or unnatural. Certain leaders of my group have stated in the past that they would eventually like to see all predators find alternate ways of feeding themselves, but that's not immediately feasible.
What is immediately feasible is for each of us to make the decision that we are not going to contribute to the suffering of other animals for our own pleasure. You might like hamburgers, but Dahmer liked cutting off boy's heads. It's an exact parallel. Your addiction to meat and leather causes mass murder every day, and it's about time someone stopped it. As long as the government is run by special interest murder groups like the beef industry, it won't happen on a large scale. But it can happen on an individual level, and I reserve the right to point out your complicity in murder in whatever form I see fit.
Finding all predators other means of feeding themselves beside consuming other animals, would mean to completely alter our ecosystem and create a planet of over populated herbivores with no natural enemies to keep the population levels in balance. This kind of thing happens a fair amount here in Ohio, there are few natural predators for the deer around here, so the population explodes and alot of them end up starving to death, etc.
Like I said, my body was designed to live off a diet of meat AND plants, so I do not see what is wrong with that since that is how God intended me to be, or I evolved through nature. If PETA is so concerned with the well being of all animals and protecting their habitats, etc. why would they endorse the drastic change of animals' way of life? It makes no sense.
That being said, I do agree that the suffering of animals for our pleasure, or research (cosmetics, etc.) is outright wrong. Hunting in the form of Native Americans is fine, that's how they survived, but hunting for a 12 point buck just so you can mount its head on your wall is not right. Nor are the horrible conditions under which many farm animals live before slaughter. I think that if any drastic change needs to be made, it is to our current agriculture system which puts food supply first, animals' pain second. Not a change in our natural eating habits.
Don't try to change life, change how we affect it.
Noodle, I think the time has come to stop your little thought excercise. You're scaring me.
* note to self ... if ever in need of Devil's Advocate, call mrnoodle.
You don't need a damn burger any more than you need the head of your conquest on your wall. Or the latest hairspray. Our desires are counterproductive to our survival, and that of fellow species.
You're not hunting for your own sustenance. You're blithely driving to the grocer's and buying the flesh of an animal that died under horrible circumstances. They keep killing, because you keep buying. On your way to the display of edible body parts reaped from the innocent, you probably passed 100 items that would've equally filled your belly without causing death. Well, not directly, anyway.
wolf -- don't worry, as soon as I close this window I'm going to get a burger. It's easy to argue from a completely emotional standpoint. Five uses of terms like "murder" and "innocent" to put the reader on the defensive, bolstered by one logical point (there are alternatives to meat), all based on the sacred cow of "good intentions". It's easy to be a lib. :P
phew.
And, incidentally, I want the head on my wall as well as the burger. Nice skin on the floor would work with my decor too.
I intend to have a lovely mountain lion skin on my floor soon.
I still just don't get why people think eating meat is wrong. It is how we are designed. Get over the fact that something has to suffer for any animal to live. It's part of life. I already said that I don't agree with the way livestock is treated, that needs to be changed no doubt. The problem is not what we eat, it is how we get it.
And even if the entire human race went vegan, animals would still get killed through pesticide runoff, combines harvesting grain, and extermination because of threat to crops.
I'm no vegetarian, but "It is how we are designed" doesn't hold much moral weight. There are any number of things in our animal nature that are looked down on in civilized society.
And it is possible to get by without eating meat.
But I don't want to.
The only real moral issue is how animals are treated on the farm. The moral issue of just killing something for food is rediculous. It's called the circle of life/food chain, get used to it cause that's its always been and always will be.
And of course it is possible to get by without eating meat, its healthier for people with high cholesterol problems for example. But to use the justification for veganism that it is morally wrong to eat another living thing just doesn't fly.
It should also be pointed out (although I'm not exactly sure why) that virtually all of the cattle that we consume are conceived and raised specifically for that purpose. In other words, left to their own devices, there wouldn't be nearly as many cows in the world. The unchecked mountain lion population would see to that.
I am also no vegetarian, but to be fair, vegetarianism is the logical choice.
Meat is an inefficient nutritional delivery device compared to grains and vegetables. Meat is wasteful. If you eat meat, YOU are wasteful. (Incidentally, so am I.)
From a veggie site:
A vegetarian diet can feed significantly more people than a meat-centered diet. More than 840 million people in the world are malnourished, yet over 70 percent of the U.S. grain harvest and 80 percent of its corn harvest is fed to farmed animals.
I forget the exact numbers, but I think you can feed ten times the people with a vegetarian diet than you can with a meat based diet, given a certain amount of land or the crop harvest that comes from that land.
Growing all that animal feed requires a tremendous amount of fresh water. Fresh water that could be used for humans. It takes 100 times more water to grow a pound of beef than a pound of soybeans.
Growing all that feed wastes fossil fuels. We could significantly reduce our dependence of mideast oil if everyone in the US became a vegetarian.
Too much meat is not terribly healthy for you. Look at the food pyramid. You're not supposed to eat much meat at all, and don't actually need any.
I'm just listing a couple of reasons that come to mind. If you look at the logic behind the meat question. The answer is clearly to be a vegetarian.
The only reason to not become a vegetarian is if you like meat enough that you don't care about that other stuff. It's a purely selfish decision, something Americans are good at.
But again, to be clear, I eat meat as well. I'll be having pork chops for dinner tonight, with couscous and corn on the cob.
You are absolutely right. I'm just trying to show that the whole "moral dillema" of eating meat is a moot point. And apologies if I have come off aggressive or disrespectful, my short temper has kind of made a come back these days, don't know why, so I get irritated easily. So again I apologize.
There are many threads to follow in these arguments. We're about to put some goats on here. Goats can turn brush and other undigestible plant matter into food I can eat. We really should think about how our food is produced. It'd be good for us and for producers if we demanded as consumers a safer less centralized and unfortunately more expensive food supply. I'm as guilty as anyone when it comes to cheap chicken and should really look into less intensive alternatives.
You are absolutely right. I'm just trying to show that the whole "moral dillema" of eating meat is a moot point.
But it isn't. Plenty of moral issues involve overcoming instinct and not behaving like animals. The facts that we are omnivorous and other animals eat animals is essentially irrelevant to the question of the morality of eating meat.
Last I checked, we are animals.
So any behavior we witness in the animal kingdom is therefore moral?
I believe the statistic for the grain to meat ratio is that a cow is fed 3500 pounds of grain in its life to produce 500 pounds of meat. The average cow raised for food purposes produces 50 pounds of waste excrement (poop and urine) a day. And that excrement has been known to decimate stream and river populations due to runoff, as well as create a horribly unpleasent odor, and create land that is essentially bactarially infested, making it unlivable.
Morality is based on perspective. It is an entirely human concept. The issue is that being supposed moral beings, we should be ethical enough to at least take into consideration the conditions under which these animals die. It isn't only a moral issue, but it is a logical issue. Unsanitary slaughter conditions and unsafe workplaces are a breeding ground for disease and, with all the fear about terrorism, the easy access to, because of consolidation of the meatpacking companies, the ability to easily transmit a potentially lethal pathogen.
As for as using more fossil fuels, I don't think it is so much of that, but more that these animals produce an extreme amount of methane gas, which has been directly linked to Global Warming.
Meat is a very easily accessible source of protein, an essential nutrient in our diets. The carnivorous life style offered somewhat more security, as predators would be more unlikely to attack a creature that was adept at killing. However, this is no longer the case, as we have virtually wiped out the threat of predatory creatures within the safety of our concrete jungles. So, yes, the logical solution here is to move onto a vegetarian diet. Along with providing a much more nutrient rich diet, it has been shown to reduce the risks of colon cancer.
I'm not saying that people should move to a strictly vegetarian diet. I think people have the right to choose what they want to eat. The issue at hand isn't whether or not it is moral to kill another animal for its flesh; on the contrary, the issue is why have we, being such moral creatures, allowed this injustice in the slaughterhouses to continue? Why do we line these beasts up and process them with such speed and deliberance? The first thing that comes to mind here is Eric Schlosser's book, Fast Food Nation. But the other object is a film, an anime to be more precise, titled Mononoke Hime. It doesn't pertain entirely to the issue of eating meat, but more to the almost cancerous attitude we have taken towards the Earth. I think we are heading in entirely the wrong direction with our stance towards how we treat the Earth. We need to look at the long term consequences, instead of selfishly looking to the short term.
I think PETA is wrong in wanting people to stop eating meat. Meat is not murder, it is effeciency, in all reality. Depending on the viewpoint, meat and the byproducts from the animal, such as fur and fats, is survival of the fittest, in a rather cruel sense. The perfect example is the American Indians. They used everything; leaving something to waste would be a sin against Nature herself. I know this doesn't really pertain to people anymore, but the idea of not wasting should still stand. With such an overabundance, we have become lax and completely ignore the threat that a famine might affect the more developed countries.
So any behavior we witness in the animal kingdom is therefore moral?
Our actions of pollution, environment destruction, torture, and unnecessary killing aside yes. It is moral for a lioness to kill a gazell, it is moral for a shark to consume a tuna, and it is moral for a human to consume the flesh of another animal.
Our actions of pollution, environment destruction, torture, and unnecessary killing aside yes.
Why do you put those aside? Is it moral when a lion kills its cub? Would it be moral for a human to kill their child?
Why do you put those aside? Is it moral when a lion kills its cub? Would it be moral for a human to kill their child?
Because I'm not talking about how we lay waste to the environment, I'm talking about the simple fact that it is not immoral for one animal to consume another for the sole purpose of sustenance.
[edit] 400 posts.. go me :headshake
If it is doing so simply to survive then yes. Just like the soccer team that had to resort to cannibalism after their jet crashed in the mountains. My point is, it is moral to consume whatever you need to survive and thrive, not to the point of excess or for sport.
No, it does it to reduce competition.
No, it does it to reduce competition.
"If it is doing so simply to survive then yes."
How about the lion?
It's doing it to eliminate the genes of the previous mate who apparently proved inferior. Thus it is a survival trait for the pride.
Or so they say...
"If it is doing so simply to survive then yes."
So, if I think a child will grow up to compete with me, it is moral to kill it?
Male cats of all sizes do the "kill the kittens of the previous Tom and re-impregnante the Queens with my own seed" thing. You'll notice, it's the males who are murderous. The females will nurse any kitten--an orphan kitten, a kitten who belongs to another female, etc.; male cats seem determined that their genes are passed along and female cats seem determined that the species shall endure. :apaw:
Male cats of all sizes do the "kill the kittens of the previous Tom and re-impregnante the Queens with my own seed" thing. You'll notice, it's the males who are murderous. The females will nurse any kitten--an orphan kitten, a kitten who belongs to another female, etc.; male cats seem determined that their genes are passed along and female cats seem determined that the species shall endure. :apaw:
Another way of wording that could be that the males are concerned that the best survive and the females aren't quite so discriminating. :stickpoke
Sort of the reverse of humanity...
Another way of wording that could be that the males are concerned that the best survive and the females aren't quite so discriminating. :stickpoke
Sort of the reverse of humanity...
Define "best".
So, if I think a child will grow up to compete with me, it is moral to kill it?
The environment we live in is a tad different than that of lions in case you haven't noticed..
Another way of wording that could be that the males are concerned that the best survive and the females aren't quite so discriminating. :stickpoke
Sort of the reverse of humanity...
Except with lions, it's the older males that lose the fight to the younger invading males. It has nothing to do with genetics and everything to do with age. The ironic bit is that the younger lions will be driven off before their cubs grow to maturity, and their cubs will be killed too. Lions only have a 20% chance of reaching maturity, and the number one killer is other lions.
The environment we live in is a tad different than that of lions in case you haven't noticed..
One difference: We don't need meat to live. Does that make eating meat immoral?
If lions were "civilized" (and i use that term loosely) like humans, they could choose to eat soy beans to get their protein, etc. They don't "need" meat to live, but that's how they are designed. To go hunt down, kill their food, and consume it. We were designed to be able to get our nutrients from many different sources, plants and animals alike. So no, it is not immoral because that's the way life(nature) is.
If lions were "civilized" (and i use that term loosely) like humans, they could choose to eat soy beans to get their protein, etc.
That's the difference I am trying to get at. We can choose. The fact that we can choose is what defines morality. The lion has no moral choice to make; it just does what it does. The fact that lions do something does not mean it is the correct moral choice for a human to make. So again:
The claim that "we are designed that way" has no moral weight.
Ok, I'm tired of arguing about this, you win. HP: 1 Bullitt: 0
Guess this is what I get for coming out of semi-lurkerdom and having a discussion
:madhop: :flamer:
It's not whether you win or lose...
Bullitt, You could probably redeem yourself with the guys if you posted more pictures of young ladies in swimming attire, or something like that.
Bullitt, You could probably redeem yourself with the guys if you posted more pictures of young ladies in swimming attire, or something like that.
I was hoping I'd get to use this someday...
I think that I am probably very, very grateful that is a very, very small image.
Define "best".
I can't, I'm not the lion.
I'm only positing that there may be a mechanism in place that may insure that the most suitably adapted DNA is passed on. That mechanism may be part of a long causal chain that results in that coming to pass.
It's just unlikely that any mechanism in nature, other than man current trends, exist without some form of reason. Unlikely, but not impossible.
Except with lions, it's the older males that lose the fight to the younger invading males.
Eventually, yes. But isn't it possible that the older, smarter, stronger ones will last longer and pass on an extra litter or two of better adapted generations.
It has nothing to do with genetics and everything to do with age.
Everything has to do with genetics, even age. A better adapted pro
genitor will pass on the better RNA to more generations.
The ironic bit is that the younger lions will be driven off before their cubs grow to maturity, and their cubs will be killed too. Lions only have a 20% chance of reaching maturity, and the number one killer is other lions.
Is it irony or causality?
I was hoping I'd get to use this someday...
Then you won't want to
watch this.
You're right. I wouldn't have wanted to watch that.
I imagine you meant to quote wolf, and not Bullitt.
Is that woman just freaky anorexic, or does she have an actual physical deformity? I can't tell.
She's actually a transgendered polio victim.
That is in fact worse than I imagined. When she was a plucky survivor, struggling to reach beyond her disability (I assumed CP), there was merit there, a kind of hope, I suppose. A beacon of goodwill and fortitude for others.
But what jinx says, that's just fucked up.
Why does she have a clown doll on her head? And how does Jinx know that?
Google'd it.
IMDb
http://www.unpopart.org/films/goddessbunny.html
[font=comic sans MS, comic sans][size=4]"No words can describe 'The Goddess Bunny'... only images... and even the images are indescribable. In spite of circumstances which would cause many to seek seclusion, this tenacious character has, for many years, maintained a frightfully loyal following in the decadent underground scene of Hollywood.
In this remarkable documentary, we will trace the rocky road tread by little Johnnie Baima, stricken with polio at birth, abused as a youth in foster homes, yet defiant enough to transform into campy, wise-cracking Sandie Crisp, a celebrated singer, dancer, actress and model.
After a starring role in a startling cult film, Miss Crisp was playfully dubbed 'The Goddess Bunny' and soon became an object of wild, fetishistic worship by the denizens of west coast counter culture. Hear the Goddess recount her own astounding story, and join her colorful group of friends and fans on a guided tour of bizarre, and unearthly underbelly of wicked, glamourous Tinseltown."[/size][/font]
Ok...but, what about the clown-doll on her head? ;)
Oh come on, I'm not gonna spoon feed you the whole story! But man, when you find out... whooo-weee... who'da though a clown doll on the head meant you're into that! ::shudder::
But man, when you find out... whooo-weee... who'da though a clown doll on the head meant you're into that! ::shudder::
Raging within me,
Fear and curiosity.
I lose either way.
Raging within me,
Fear and curiosity.
I lose either way.
Well, you're no Mystic Rythm...
From Lookout's link: Both the dogs and sharks enjoy the sport and if it is banned thousands of dogs will have to be euthanated.
As opposed to the dogs being "gruesome-ated"?
Maybe they could do the "sport" using local and national politicians, instead. Of course THAT would be REALLY unkind to the sharks! :worried:
The sharks won't eat them.
Professional courtesy.
