Vegans are literally stupid
Provocative enough thread title for you?
Children 'harmed' by vegan diets
The changes seen in the children given the meat, and to a lesser extent the milk or oil, were dramatic.
These children grew more and performed better on problem-solving and intelligence tests than any of the other children at the end of the two years.
They also became more active, talkative and playful at school.
Eat what you like, but leave your kid out of it.
I used the title, "Vegans are 'tards: A Self-fulfilling Paradigm" elsewhere.
Like we needed a study...
But is
[size=2]The 544 children studied had been raised on diets chiefly consisting of starchy, low-nutrition corn and bean staples lacking these micronutrients.[/size]
the typical diet of a vegan? Ever been to a health food store? Or a produce department for that matter....
Hmmm, it must be "Shit on Garnet Day" again.
Disappointing, UT, that you would put any faith in a "study" that was partially funded by the lobbying arm of the USDA. The cattle ranchers and the meat and milk industries have the USDA bought and paid for.
But that's OK, guys, I'm not insulted. I've been a vegan for 3 years, a vegetarian for about 12. I'm not "retarded" as TS so idiotically put it; in fact I think I'm pretty darn intelligent. And I'm in perfect health with perfect blood pressure and low cholesterol. I'm not overweight, and I think I look pretty good too.
So go scarf some burgers and chug your milk, boys--I'll stick with the vegan thing. It's working out just fine for me.
Hmmm, it must be "Shit on Garnet Day" again.
There you go taking it personally.
It's a legitimate post on a serious topic with a link to a current article.
I'm not saying the article is right or wrong, just that it is worth discussing and not aimed at any one member. We have a few vegans around, you know. :eyebrow:
There you go taking it personally.
It's a legitimate post on a serious topic with a link to a current article.
I'm not saying the article is right or wrong, just that it is worth discussing and not aimed at any one member. We have a few vegans around, you know. :eyebrow:
I take it personally because of TS's comment above. It's a blanket statement that ALL vegans are stupid, and UT is basically saying the same thing with the title he chose to use.
I don't like being called stupid by people who don't know what the fuck they're talking about.
And who are these other vegan cellarites? I can't think of one.
sorry, it's the naturally aggressive tendencies I have from devouring flesh every day.
sorry, it's the naturally aggressive tendencies I have from devouring flesh every day.
Good for you.
Enjoy your flesh, have your quadruple bypass, and leave me out of it.
It seems to me that the logic of the study is:
- These African children who do not eat meat are malnourished.
- If you feed them a token amount of meat regularly, they perform better in school compared to the ones who don't. Milk or oil works, too, but not as well.
From which you can draw the conclusions that "their diet is not good" and "adding stuff to it helps." But I get lost when they decide that the only way to have a good diet is with meat. The case would be a good big stronger if any time had been devoted to comparing reasonable alternatives to meat (oil and milk are mentioned, yeah; but quantities and types aren't, and aside from all the fun "omega-3 this" and "polyunsaturated fat that" stuff, you're certainly going to get more out of milk or meat than a dollop of straight oil.)
..
garnet: I don't consider myself a vegan, but I've taken to spending some time around a few of them, and cooking for them on occasion. After I move next month, I plan on making feta and milk chocolate the only overtly non-vegan food items in my life.
Enjoy your flesh, have your quadruple bypass, and leave me out of it.
Silly, I don't eat
human flesh!
After I move next month, I plan on making feta and milk chocolate the only overtly non-vegan food items in my life.
There's a thread in here somewhere. I'd be a vegan if I could eat...
Anyway flawed study. I think its easier to get all your nutrients from an omnivorous diet (not that folks do) but you can pull it off with a well considered vegan diet. Anyway I'd be a vegan if I could eat steak and eggs.
Silly, I don't eat human flesh!
geez, another half-assed carnivore on display...
:D
Silly, I don't eat human flesh!
Uhhh, never said you did.
Apparently you don't get it, so I'll explain. My comment was in reference to the fact that a diet based on fatty animal products (as this "study" seems to
recommend) has been shown to cause clogging of the arteries, and therefore result in heart attacks--any doctor will tell you that.
But hey, if that's how you want to lead your life, go for it. I could personally care less. I would, however, never make the statement that all meat-eaters are stupid--it's not true, and it would offend people. Too bad you and TS think it's OK to slam a group of people based on a biased "study" and your own ignorance. Who's next, UT? Blacks and gays? Or maybe Jews and Muslims? No, probably not. Vegans are a much easier target, aren't they?
And Skunks--cool that you're planning on doing the veg thing! I had a REALLY hard time giving up milk chocolate, so I understand your wanting to hang on to it! Hope it works for ya--it can be a challenge, but I really think it's worth the effort... :thumbsup:
ever notice how the ones that get jabbed at the most are usually the ones that give the biggest reaction when they get jabbed? and garnet, you have to learn the rules. it is ok to pick on you because you are a vegan, me because i'm a christian, Onyx because her vocal stand against abortion, and LJ because, well - he's LJ - we all choose to be or do these things.
we can't pick on blacks because they didn't choose to be decended from monkeys, and jews - well i guess we can pick on them, they did decide to kill jesus...
:eek:
ever notice how the ones that get jabbed at the most are usually the ones that give the biggest reaction when they get jabbed? and garnet, you have to learn the rules. it is ok to pick on you because you are a vegan, me because i'm a christian, Onyx because her vocal stand against abortion, and LJ because, well - he's LJ - we all choose to be or do these things.
we can't pick on blacks because they didn't choose to be decended from monkeys, and jews - well i guess we can pick on them, they did decide to kill jesus...
:eek:
Yeah, I hear ya, Lookout. But I don't think anyone around here would call you "stupid" for being Christian, or call OC stupid because of her stance on abortion. This just came off as mean-spirited bullshit from people who I thought were more intelligent than that. Sorry all, it just pissed me off--please forgive my ranting and raving.
I seriously need break from this place.
I seriously need break from this place.
pffft. quitter. ;)
I understand vegetarianism but I never got the vegan thing. I mean deciding never to eat chocolate again ever because it has milk fat in it seems awfully extreme. Don't all baby mammals consume milk? At what age does drinking milk become a bad idea?
I used to have a vegan roommate but I liked her approach. Rather than put down the stuff we ate, she would point out the benefits of what she ate. She even put a cookbook together and I still have it and use it from time to time.
As far as heart trouble goes, I think sedentary lifestyles are more to blame for heart trouble than a diet with some animal fat in it.
One thing I can say, tho, is that I've never met a dumb vegetarian/vegan. A lot of OC ones, but no dumb ones.
It's my understanding that humans are the only ones that go so far out of their way to continue consuming milk.
I'd be curious as to where cats fall on that scale.
Yeah, I hear ya, Lookout. But I don't think anyone around here would call you "stupid" for being Christian
Anyone here can call anyone names and they often do and it's fine, but when I do it, it's somehow more upsetting and the subject leaves. That's never my intent but it keeps happening. sorry ppl.
:(
It would appear that your speaking softly carries a big stick.
garnet's sense of humor is intermittent.
UT, fuck 'em if they can't take a joke. especially sycamore, that fat weasel
I think the point of this tread was not to say that the vegan lifestyle was stupid, but vegans forcing that lifestyle on their children is unhealthy, i.e. stupid.
Let the kid decide if he or she wants to live that lifestyle when they are old enough to understand the benefit or consequence of what they eat.
It's not like they're going to keel over from a coronary at age 5 or 6, right?
Let the kid decide if he or she wants to live that lifestyle when they are old enough to understand the benefit or consequence of what they eat.
think that through
Veganism doesn't do it for me: it's overly citified and an antisurvival behavior. Get in a situation where vegetable foods are not available but animal foods are, and you either ditch the veganism or starve, possibly to death. Not my idea of a sensible philosophy. Omnivory's the way that doesn't impede survival even in difficult circumstances.
That said, I like vegetarian recipes and dishes a lot better than professional-vegetarian philosophy -- and I particularly fondly remember the hippie sandwiches I used to get in Baltimore: a big slab of Muenster with sprouts and a slice of tomato and piece of lettuce between a couple slices of earnestly wholegrain bread. That was eatin'!
That's never my intent but it keeps happening. sorry ppl.
hey UT? i'm a little disappointed that you haven't walked on water lately... and while you are at it would you please do something about the weather...
Hmmm, it must be "Shit on Garnet Day" again.
Disappointing, UT, that you would put any faith in a "study" that was partially funded by the lobbying arm of the USDA. The cattle ranchers and the meat and milk industries have the USDA bought and paid for.
Much as I hate to agree with garnet or any vegetarian or vegan, I have to agree with this.
Strip away the spin and the study basically says that malnutrition is bad for children, which isn't exactly news. It doesn't say that vegans are necessarily malnourished, only that it's simple to avoid this particular sort of malnourishment by eating meat. Again, not news. Not even to vegans.
Veganism doesn't do it for me: it's overly citified and an antisurvival behavior. Get in a situation where vegetable foods are not available but animal foods are, and you either ditch the veganism or starve, possibly to death. Not my idea of a sensible philosophy. Omnivory's the way that doesn't impede survival even in difficult circumstances.
And when was the last time you were in danger of starving to death? That philosophy might fly in Sudan or Ethiopia, but how often do you hear of people starving to death in the US? The "survival" agrument doesn't work here, where we have the most plentiful supply of food anywhere.
And if I were in danger of starving to death and meat were the only option for me, of course I'd eat it. I'm not stupid.
It's not like they're going to keel over from a coronary at age 5 or 6, right?
Actually, kids raised on typical Western diets of meat and milk can start showing build-up in their arteries at around age three. That carries over into adulthood. Actually Dr. Spock's book has lots of information about that.
Much as I hate to agree with garnet or any vegetarian or vegan, I have to agree with this.
Russotto, can I ask you a question? Is there a reason you felt the need to slam me rather than just making your point? Was it fun for you? I'm just curious.
I have a friend that was vegetarian for many years, then she moved on to the vegan diet... THEN the vegan raw diet (yeah, that means nothing cooked! Blah.). It lasted about 2 years and she began to look sickly. Thankfully, she realized that her body needed more and she slowly began eating milk products and now even eats fish and chicken every now and then. She looks and feels so much better.
My motto: Everything in moderation.
Russotto, can I ask you a question? Is there a reason you felt the need to slam me rather than just making your point? Was it fun for you? I'm just curious.
If you think that was a slam, you should see some of the stuff I write to people I REALLY dislike. For it to be a slam, I'd have to say or imply something bad about you.
Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to go back to writing my paper on how a strict vegan diet causes irritability in women.
(see, THAT was a slam).
talk about people in glass houses.
If you think that was a slam, you should see some of the stuff I write to people I REALLY dislike. For it to be a slam, I'd have to say or imply something bad about you.
Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to go back to writing my paper on how a strict vegan diet causes irritability in women.
(see, THAT was a slam).
That's the best you cou do for a "slam"? Disappointing.
Oh, leave garnet alone. They like to pick on you, garnet, because they can't date you. This is such a boy's club!
She's deleted her user title and all the info in her profile. She's gone.
:(
I think garnet is perfectly capable of taking what she dishes out.
I think garnet is perfectly capable of taking what she dishes out.
Apparently not...
Apparently not...
Go fuck yourself, TS. And you too, Russotto. I think you both need to get laid...badly.
OK, now I'm gone, assholes. Feel better?
Well, speaking from someone who's had both ends thrown at her, there is a way to disagree with people that is not personally insulting. When people obviously don't care about the person they are tearing down, it does tend, if not to hurt the feelings, at least make one question why they hang around for the abuse.
I think personally, Tony's little slam on me in another thread hurt more because it was an unexpected source. I'm prepared for garbage like that from (for example) Jim, but not Tony. And there's no chance Tony would leave his own board, so if you don't like it, you've got two options: get over it or get out.
Sometimes I just need a break from this place, and I understand Garnet's comment in that vein completely. Garnet can take it, it's just a matter of if she wants to put the effort into it or not.
I don't feel better. I feel worse. I liked garnet. I liked that she was a smart, funny woman. Does everyone here have to have balls of steel to hang around?
I feel very sad.
i like that she didn't look as dike-y as Jim expected. Garnet will be back... the cellar is in her blood like the nasty little drug that it is. once you're in it is difficult to get out. it may take a little while but she'll lurk until a thread really grabs her.
i mean does anyone really believe that Hubris Boy doesn't sometimes lurk? JuJu just popped up again, and Marichiko i'm sure is lurking - hell, she may be an active user with a new title right now.
anyway - come back soon Garnet - i'll keep my poking stick handy.
Does everyone here have to have balls of steel to hang around?
In a word, Yes.
Not many women hang out here and stand their ground.
[QUOTE=Brianna]Does everyone here have to have balls of steel to hang around?
QUOTE]
titanium
Go fuck yourself, TS. And you too, jaguar. I think you both need to get laid...badly.
OK, now I'm gone, assholes. Feel better?
Not particularly.
And is it possible to get laid badly?
And is it possible to get laid badly?
Yes.
Is ball-kicking all the fun there is? I think there is room for more. This place eats it's own young and then smacks it's lips. I suppose there are those of you out there who feel smug and superior here in Cyberworld. What on earth did you do before? Kick baby chicks?
Is ball-kicking all the fun there is? I think there is room for more. This place eats it's own young and then smacks it's lips. I suppose there are those of you out there who feel smug and superior here in Cyberworld. What on earth did you do before? Kick baby chicks?
Intellectual snobbery is the staple of many boards. A combination of brains and balls are vital.
Is ball-kicking all the fun there is? I think there is room for more. This place eats it's own young and then smacks it's lips. I suppose there are those of you out there who feel smug and superior here in Cyberworld. What on earth did you do before? Kick baby chicks?
Seriously though, don't you think you're overreacting? Ball kicking? This thread was about a really bad study, it had nothing to do with garnet until she made it about her and set herself up as a target. I think, in general, the cellar is what you make of it.
I think everyone who's a regular here know garnet is a vegan.
I think that the title of this thread was purposefully done with garnet in mind. Whether or not that is, in fact, the case, who knows?
If it had been me, I would have taken it personally, too.
would it have been less insulting if we had 10 vegan regulars?
there are frequently threads started that are tagged in such a way that they have to be insulting to republicans, democrats, christians, muslims, creationists, evolutionists, etc... at least one of us can be insulted by every thread we have, it is our choice whether or not to take it personally.
If it had been me, I would have taken it personally, too.
That's certainly your choice.
Did you see the conclusion of the study in the article?
[size=2]"There's absolutely no question that it's unethical for parents to bring up their children as strict vegans," she told the annual meeting of the American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS).[/size]
That's quite a bit more insulting imo than saying "you're stupid". I think Tony toned it down a bit.
I don't remember who's vegan and who's not. I said I was being provocative with my title. This place is useless to me if I can't be like everyone else.
I don't remember who's vegan and who's not. I said I was being provocative with my title. This place is useless to me if I can't be like everyone else.
You can be like everyone else.
But why oh why would you want to be?
You can be like everyone else.
But why oh why would you want to be?
If everybody else is free, would you jump in the holding tank just out of spite?
That's certainly your choice.
Aye, and depending on my mood at the time is how I would have chosen to take it. And the source. Something like that from TS would slide off more easily than say, from my beloved Bruce.
Knowing me, I would be hurt, leave for a while, then suck it up and come back when I'm feeling better and jump back into the fray.
Did you see the conclusion of the study in the article?
Actually, I didn't read the article.
That's quite a bit more insulting imo than saying "you're stupid". I think Tony toned it down a bit.
You're right IF garnet (as the person in question) has children and is bringing them up vegan. No one likes to be told they are hurting their kids when they are doing what they think is best for them.
would it have been less insulting if we had 10 vegan regulars?
I don't know about less insulting, but probly much more likely NOT to be taken personally.
there are frequently threads started that are tagged in such a way that they have to be insulting to republicans, democrats, christians, muslims, creationists, evolutionists, etc... at least one of us can be insulted by every thread we have, it is our choice whether or not to take it personally.
You're right, but that shouldn't make it ok to insult people on a personal level.
If everybody else is free, would you jump in the holding tank just out of spite?
No.
Something like that from TS would slide off more easily than say, from my beloved Bruce.
Oh you wound me to the quick. :)
But then again, who can compare to Bruce?
what the fuck did I do? I was talking about Russotto.
Jag... how should i phrase this? hmmm - oh yeah, shut up you damn foreigner! (was that insulting?) ;)
C'mon everybody Tony provides the cellar for us. unlike many board owners he hasn't set himself up on some pedastal - let's not do it for him. he's just another guy, with his own up and down days, why should his words carry anymore weight than someone else's?
After munching on this thread for a while, I don't see anything in it or about it that is not true to the Cellar.
I think the problem starts when folks start thinking "its about me." "Me" is IRL and nothing in the Cellar is IRL and, therefore, nothing in the Cellar is about "me."
I think its unfortunate that garnett left but, I think she sort of hijacked the thread into a personal attack on her when that is nothing near what was meant by the author. She could have easily taken a different tack like my old vegan roommate who refused to bow under the crushing weight of our ridicule and, in the end through the strength of her conviction, led me to reconsider all of my eating habits not to mention earned my respect.
Playing the wounded bird seldom earns respect.
Hopefully, she will reconsider.
Aye, and depending on my mood at the time is how I would have chosen to take it. And the source. Something like that from TS would slide off more easily than say, from my beloved Bruce.
Aw shadup, bitch. :lol2:
I saw if coming and tried to head it off but I guess I handled it poorly.
I think Jinx nailed it...again.
[SIZE=5]Now Hear This, Now Hear This...IT IS NOT ABOUT YOU.[/SIZE]
I think its unfortunate that garnett left but, I think she sort of hijacked the thread into a personal attack on her when that is nothing near what was meant by the author.
yes, very LuvBugzian of her, was it not?
And there's no chance Tony would leave his own board
Actually, what many people here fail to understand that that chance DOES exist.
I personally do NOT want to see that happen.
Garnet did set herself up for this one. She could have participated in a rational discussion of the article, and of her own lifestyle choices, but instead chose act as if attacked, when she initially was not.
Women can get along just fine here. No extra armor needed.
Give as good as you get, by way of rational argument (and the occasional sarcastic comment), rather than histrionic whining.
There is no crying in baseball.
What on earth did you do before? Kick baby chicks?
No.
We stomp on their heads and watch their little bodies twitch a bit before they die.
(incidentally, They Eat Their Young was the name of the band of a cellar member in the olden days.)
Incidentally, They Eat Their Young was the name of the band of a cellar member in the olden days.)
And You Will Know Them By The Trail of Dead is another favorite.
So, Wolf, you don't think Balls of Steel is a requisite for being here? That's refreshing to hear. I was beginning to wonder where I was going to find a pair and then where to get them steel-plated.
Aw shadup, bitch. :lol2:
mmmmm baby, you always did know how to talk to me....
:doit:
ups, downs, love, hate, deaths, sex....this thread could be crafted into a Standard Formula Hollywood Blockbuster! All we need are explosions. Where's slang gone?
i think the problem is that the cellar is so community/dysfunctional family/alternate reality that it's hard to disassociate it from RL for some people. I got my panties in a wad about something several months ago and left too. I think it was a religious thing, but don't remember. that's how important it was.
a sign of a great user community is that you can get people that emotionally involved in discussions that they get as pissed off as they would if "real" people had said it to their face, but still can't give up their addiction :D
am i the only one who has a 'cellar persona' and a 'real life' one? mrnoodle is derek, but derek isn't always mrnoodle.
oh yeah. vegans are dumb as fuck.
(hangs head in mock shame)
I'm pretty much wolf everywhere I go. Takes too much energy to sustain multiple personalities.
okay, RL wolf says "fuck" a lot more often than Cellar wolf.
that's kind of my difference, too. i sometimes actually think before i speak on here. :haha:
This is pretty much me all of the time. It's just that I have less time here to spread my me-ness over a longer period of time. If you don't have to deal with me in such discrete doses it's not so bad.
I don't know.
If I had more friends that I actually talked to, I might ask them, but all I really have is Husband. Kelove is off in Croatia, and is pregnant so isn't coming home this year, and I don't have anyone else I would consider a "friend" here. I know lots of people, on an acquaintence level. Just no one I really want to hang out with on a consistant basis.
I think OC is always Nikki, but OC is a little more agressive (outspoken) than Nikki is, precisely because it's internet and I can turn it off if I get too ...anything. And I think about what I'm posting here more than I think about what is coming out of my mouth.
that's kind of my difference, too. i sometimes actually think before i speak on here.
Think I'm the other way round. Good thing too.
Personally, Garnet got on my nerves, and am glad she is gone. She could have partnered up with StacyV (self proclaimed dietician) and presented good arguments why this was a bad study, but instead acted like the child(ren) this article was referring to. Good Riddance.
boy, garnet. just when i thought you were coming around. you're acting silly and immature. quit it. you remind me of sycamore. just suck it up. fucking off just makes you look like a tool.
and for the rest of you, a suggestion:
If you ever find yourself mad at the cellar, and feel like there's nothing in it for you anymore, and you should stop reading it and posting to it.....just fucking do it. no big egress, no fanfare. i will always admire blue58. he got pissed off, and then he was just gone. if i ever bugger off, that's how i'll do it. i won;t change my user title to something inane and coy like dycamore, i won't write a 2 page essay like dave, i'll just stop. not that i'm pussyish enough to leave because of what i think might be mean spirited things others say.....i'm more likely to leave out of boredom than anything else.
so fuck you.
;)
blue left because he got mad? Huh. I had no idea. Musta missed that spat somehow.
LJ, where you been? Are you hanging out with the "this is not porn" crowd now? too busy to post every 15 minutes? what the hell? I came back cuz of you, baby.
blue left because he got mad? Huh. I had no idea. Musta missed that spat somehow.
my point exactly. there was no spat.