Critique of Black Culture
I pulled this from a conservative blog Townhall.com. I apologize for not putting the link up, my system at work makes that difficult. I'll try to fix that when I get home.
Obviously this is a conservative website, and the author states he is a conservative so make of it what you will. I found it interesting because, other than Bill Cosby I don't see many people that are willing to come out and say this in a public forum. What are your thoughts on this?
From Weblog on Townhall.com
Brothers Behind Bars - It Ain't Whitey's Fault!
The following is my e-mail commenting on a story by Washington Times columnist John McCaslin:
Mr. MsCaslin,
I just read your "Inside the Beltway" snippett in today's Washington Times that Rep. Charles Rangel (D-NY) is griping about the "alarming overrepresentation" ob black men in the U.S. penal system. He's upset that two-thirds of the U.S. prison population consists of racial and ethnic minorities, black men in their 20's have a one-in-eight chance of being locked up, and that black males born today have a one-in-three chance of going to prison during their lifetime, compared to a one-in-17 chance for white males.
As a black man, this upsets me, as well, but, as a conservative, I am infuriated by the "reason" that Congressman Rangel gives for this crisis. Apparently, he is attributing this serious problem to a "racist" criminal justice system, instead of the criminally anti-social behavior of many black men. "Despite the notion that the scales of justice is [sic] blind, it is no secret that racial bias plays a deplorable role in the disproportionate conviction and sentencing of African-American men, compared to their racial counterparts, who are charged with the same or a similar offense," says Rep. Rangel.
Nonsense.
This represents a classic knee-jerk response of "blame Whitey" by the modern-day black "leadership" in dealing with virtually every social and economic ill that has befallen the black community since the end of the Civil Rights Movement. Too many black men behind bars? Blame the white man. Seventy-percent black illegitimacy rate? Blame the white man. Middle-class black students academically underperforming compared to white, Asian and Caribbean immigrant students? Blame the white man. Instead of placing responsibility where it belongs - the anti-social behavior of black American males and the victimologist, separatist, and anti-intellectual black sub-culture from which it is bred, not too mention three generations of open-ended welfare that raped black Americans of any incentive to better themselves - Rangel, Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton and their ilk resort to the same tired excuse. And that's all it is- an excuse! Instead of combatting the aforementioned social ills and admonishing blacks to take responsibility for their actions, behavior and lives, today's black "leaders" continue to play the race card while screaming for more government handouts.
This explains why solutions to black-male incarceration and other problems in the black community will forever remain elusive.
Dutch Martin
Both versions are true, and they form a vicious circle.
Both versions are true, and they form a vicious circle.
No, they don't. Many so-called and usually self-appointed black leaders continue to remove the members of the black community from any share of responsibility for their condition. When you disembody the cause, you have precluded self-determinism. Therefore, these "leaders" create a dependency via advocacy ("I'll fill your needs since the white man will not permit you to fill them yourself") from which they derive benefit.
Real black leaders who do not subscribe to the idea that blacks are exempt from a share of the responsibility for their fate and preach self-determinism are castigated by the so-called black leaders and those members of the black community who benefit from a dependency upon them. There's your viscous circle.
This is a complex problem. You can look at racism, labelling theory, welfare, affirmative action, etc. as aspects that contribute to the perpetuation of the apparent inability of blacks to better their position in society.
But ultimately they are all only factors that contribute to a tendency to decide whether or not to better their positions. The child of a working mother is going to have a better chance at betterment. The child of the working mother's child is going to stand a good chance at betterment if their parent was successful as well. It's a feedback loop of sorts, but until more blacks are willing to fight the factors and start the cycle things are only going to get worse as educational levels decline and racial ratios increase.
I think the writer would be lambasted just for thinking such ideas, let alone writing them, if he's were white.
He's spot on about looking for excuses, seems the trend in todays society to dodge responsibility for one's actions. Blame it on the fact that your father smacked your ass one time when you were a kid or whatever, anything but the fact that you, as an individual, commited the crime.
I also frequent townhall.com, but don't read the blogs, just the main commentary pages.
They have several really good black commentators that do look at things sensibly and objectively, and, because they are black, are able to get away with it, although the "Uncle Tom" and "Oreo" appelations are still thrown around by black community leaders that make money off the continuing oppression of their folks.
I'm reminded of the shitstorm that followed Bill Cosby saying much the same things in his call for personal responsibility this past year.
They have several really good black commentators
thomas sewell writes there occassionally.
I, for one, am glad to see increasing calls for personal responsibility in any and all groups. The Victim Mentality is killing our society.
Watching white people try to discuss black culture is funny. :)
Here is the link to Mr. Martin's post.
This is what Mr. Martin is referring to:
Brothers behind bars
The "alarming overrepresentation" of black men in the U.S. penal system concerns Rep. Charles B. Rangel, outspoken New York Democrat and member of the Congressional Black Caucus.
The congressman from Harlem notes that two-thirds of the U.S. prison population is made up of racial and ethnic minorities — and for black men in their 20s "one in every eight is in prison or jail on any given day."
"Even more upsetting is that African-American males born today have a one-in-three chance of going to prison during their lifetime, compared to a one-in-17 chance for white males," Mr. Rangel notes. "At year-end 2003, African-American inmates represented an estimated 44 percent of all inmates with sentences of more than one year."
That causes Mr. Rangel to wonder if the sentencing system is truly colorblind.
"Despite the notion that the scales of justice is blind, it is no secret that racial bias plays a deplorable role in the disproportionate conviction and sentencing of African-American men, compared to their racial counterparts, who are charged with the same or a similar offense," he notes.
In fact, the United States is experiencing a decrease in crime rates, yet the overall prison population — federal, state and local — is increasing, particularly among blacks. This is said to be because of "truth-in-sentencing" laws that limit early releases, impose mandatory sentences for drug offenses, and set "three strikes and you're out" laws for repeat offenders.
More than 2 million Americans are behind bars.
I share Rep. Rangel's concerns, though racial bias in the justice system is just one of the many problems that needs to be addressed. Mr. Martin is reaching
just a little bit...he accuses Rangel of a knee-jerk reaction, when he seems to be doing the same thing.
Mr. Martin is reaching just a little bit...he accuses Rangel of a knee-jerk reaction, when he seems to be doing the same thing.
When I compare Rangel's opinion with Martin's what I see is one person looking at the symptoms of the problem and forecasting that the problem will get
no better for the current generation of black men and one person looking at the
causes and possible solutions to the problem.
So, if you are a young black man (10 years old let's say), you have Rangel telling you that one out of thee black men will find themselves behind bars (i.e., your future is shit) OR you have Martin and Cosby, et al saying stay in school, don't have babies you can't raise, stay out of gangs, don't do drugs and to visualize a positive future, who you gonna listen to? The guy that excuses every bad thing that happens to you (enabler) or the guy that says "yeah, the playing field ain't level but life ain't fair - but we made it and you can too!!!"
A leader of black people who predicts that one in three black men will be behind bars in ten years is pretty much insuring that he will be proven correct because he is
already saying its not your fault. Nice.
How do you know that Rangel is predicting? As I see it, he's noting a problem and highlighting one of the causes. I don't think he's trying to be necessarily negative or fatalistic.
I don't necessarily disagree with Martin, but he's overgeneralizing.
I, for one, am glad to see increasing calls for personal responsibility in any and all groups. The Victim Mentality is killing our society.
That's worth repeating. :thumbsup:
How do you know that Rangel is predicting?
"Even more upsetting is that African-American males born today have a one-in-three chance of going to prison during their lifetime, compared to a one-in-17 chance for white males,"
.
Again, how do you know that he is predicting? I haven't researched it, but perhaps he is quoting some sort of study.
Again, how do you know that he is predicting? I haven't researched it, but perhaps he is quoting some sort of study.
What he's doing is proclaiming a self-fulfiling prophecy. Charles Rangel's
worst fear is a self-actualized black man who doesn't need him.
Could be...or he could be quoting a sociological study, and his worst fear is that his people will become extinct.
Could be...or he could be quoting a sociological study, and his worst fear is that his people will become extinct.
Or he could be pulling strands of protien out of his colin. I guess I have failed to make the point that black men who take charge of their own life have little use for dumbasses like Al Sharpton/Charles B. Rangel/whoever.
Who says that black men have much use for them to begin with?
One man's dumbass is another man's hero.
Watching white people try to discuss black culture is funny. :)
So speaketh the honorary negro ... (just :stickpoke you know I love you dude.)
I know that I perhaps view the world through a naive suburban white woman's rose-colored prescription glasses, but might not the demographic imbalance in prison be representative of a demographic imbalance in the number of crimes committed by whites vs. persons of other races/ethnicities?
Niggers.
Can't live with 'em. can't live without 'em!
I can show you many instances of white people acting dumdass stupid.
"It isn't the color of your skin, but the content of your character" - MLK
It seems that people like Sharpton and Rangel want to be the next MLK Jr, leading other black people out of the Abyss of Racism and Injustice. However, they don't seem to realize that the scenery has changed. This isn't a time of White and Colored bathrooms and water fountains. Long gone (for the most part) are stores and diners that refuse to serve or even admit non-whites. Back then it was basically white vs non-white when it comes to fatal violence. However, now black people have more to fear from other black people. More often than not, they're bringing themselves down and holding themselves back.
Of course, this creates a problem for people like Rangel or Sharpton. To address this correctly, they need to target the black people who are holding back other blacks who are otherwise trying to rise out of their situations. But if they do that, they'll have one faction claiming they're going after their own people instead of focusing on where the problem is (anywhere but within). There's something do be said for the man who boldly strides forward, but for this, it's a delicate dance they'd have to do, and I don't think either of them are nimble enough.
Niggers.
Can't live with 'em. can't live without 'em!
Same thing can be said for Crackers. They're all over the place, getting into everything...a person can't go ANYWHERE without running into that pasty anglosaxon face. :rolleyes:
Watching white people try to discuss black culture is funny.
Why? Because they actually give it more study than its participants?
white people talking about conditions in minority communities = ignorance, racism, or both.
members of minority groups discussing white people = witty social commentary. :eyebrow:
Well, you can hardly write a critique of white American culture, because as everyone knows, that's a contradiction in terms.
Well, you can hardly write a critique of white American culture, because as everyone knows, that's a contradiction in terms.
Afraid not, WAC is actually the plagerized and remarketed aggregate of all of the other cultures it comes in touch with. Why do you think the french are trying to keep it out of france?
Originally Posted by sycamore
Watching white people try to discuss black culture is funny.
It sure is. :haha:
Why? Because they actually give it more study than its participants?
You'd be amazed at what black folks are talking about these days (and I'd be willing to bet that the vast majority of people here wouldn't like it
one bit).
You'd be amazed at what black folks are talking about these days (and I'd be willing to bet that the vast majority of people here wouldn't like it one bit).
Then clue us in. Otherwise what's your point?
Then clue us in. Otherwise what's your point?
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=black+talk+radio
Pick one and "study".
Does black talk radio represent blacks the same way white talk radio represents whites?
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=black+talk+radio
Pick one and "study".
You asserted that there are issues that would not be to certain people's liking. What issue do you think is one that my pasty self wouldn't like?
Edit: As far as "study" goes I spend an inordinant amount of time trying to discern the commonalities in human thought so that such superficial traits as skin color are irrelavent. Part of the problem with the big picture is that people are so unwilling to loose themselves of aspects that they have no control over and that can be used as an excuse or as an artificial barrier to distance themselves from people who are really all the same.
Does black talk radio represent blacks the same way white talk radio represents whites?
Well, from what I've heard here in Philadelphia, I've listened to the black talk radio station and I've listened to the more conservative station (that seems to cater more to a white audience), and just from that example, I'd say that they echo a lot of the opinions of blacks and whites that *I* know, respectfully.
But, you'd have to listen for yourself to really get perspective.
You asserted that there are issues that would not be to certain people's liking. What issue do you think is one that my pasty self wouldn't like?
Try this:
http://www.what1340i.com/
If you are able, the best time to listen (study) would be sometimes btwn 7am-12 noon, then from 7pm until 1am.
Trust me, you'll find the answer to your question there.
Try this:
http://www.what1340i.com/
If you are able, the best time to listen (study) would be sometimes btwn 7am-12 noon, then from 7pm until 1am.
Trust me, you'll find the answer to your question there.
I appreciate your information, but you still haven't given me an answer.
There are apparentluy issues that stood out in your mind. Share them.
I appreciate your information, but you still haven't given me an answer.
But I did. The link to the radio station.
There are apparentluy issues that stood out in your mind. Share them.
TS: You made a statement that implied (to me, at least) that whites "study" (discuss) black culture more than blacks do. I gave you the link to the radio station to listen to as proof that the statement was incorrect, and that blacks most certainly
DO study their own culture and discuss it more than people realize.
There is also this article to consider:
Black Talk Radio: Defining Community Needs and Identity
http://tinyurl.com/6ev47So they've moved the barber shop to the air waves. I wonder what the ratio of the people that call in to the people that just listen in, is? Also what kind of screening they do before someone gets on the air? I'm sure they give preferance to callers that have spoken well in the past. :)
So speaketh the honorary negro
I carry my Righteous Whitey card on me at all times.
I know that I perhaps view the world through a naive suburban white woman's rose-colored prescription glasses, but might not the demographic imbalance in prison be representative of a demographic imbalance in the number of crimes committed by whites vs. persons of other races/ethnicities?
We know that there are more blacks than whites in prisons (
source), but then we'd have to factor in probations, suspended sentences, etc. I'd say whites outnumber blacks in the end, but blacks are disproportionately represented.
Why? Because they actually give it more study than its participants?
Are you saying that this is the case? I certainly hope not, because--while it could be true based on sheer numbers--the chances of you being able to back up such a statement aren't very good.
I find watching white people try to discuss black culture funny because I believe that the vast majority of white people are ignorant about black culture. Though white people tend to be incredibly good at talking about things of which they have next to no knowledge. :)
white people talking about conditions in minority communities = ignorance, racism, or both.
Quite possible.
members of minority groups discussing white people = witty social commentary.
Not necessarily...let me fix your equation for you:
sycamore discussing any and all people = always witty social commentary :)
yeah, you and dave chappelle.
We know that there are more blacks than whites in prisons (source), but then we'd have to factor in probations, suspended sentences, etc. I'd say whites outnumber blacks in the end, but blacks are disproportionately represented.
I have a feeling that minorities are involved more with the crimes that have been targeted for stiff sentencing. Of course those crimes may have been targeted because of minority involvement. :eyebrow:
The FBI Uniform Crime Report for 2000 has a lot of numbers.
Because they have chosen to release it as a
.pdf file, it's a pain in the ass to reference specific pages ...
What we are looking at here is Section IV Persons Arrested
Head directly for Table 43 Arrests by Race 2000.
Looking at just the aggregate number of arrests for all index crimes, we find that there are 72.1 % of whites arrested, 25.1% of blacks.
The 2000 Census informs us that 77.1% of persons reported as white, and 12.9% reported as black.
I'm not getting into any complex statistical transforms here ... just looking at the raw percentages.
I'm trying to find a good way to phrase this and keep coming up short ... basically what I'm getting from this is that whites are offending proportionaly to their percentage of population, while blacks are committing (or getting caught committing crimes) at a much higher rate, in fact about twice the rate that would be expected if all other factors were equal.
(on the UCRs it is interesting to see the varience overall in the racial breakdown in the commission of certain types of crimes ... blacks and whites murder at nearly equal rates, but whites are more likely to perpetrate forcible rape, vandalism, arson, DUI, fraud, embezzlement, and forgery, among others.
Blacks lead in robbery, gambling, and have a probably statistically insignificant lead in murder and manslaughter.)
Are you saying that this is the case? I certainly hope not, because--while it could be true based on sheer numbers--the chances of you being able to back up such a statement aren't very good.
Not really, more a case of an assinine response to an assinine remark.
I find watching white people try to discuss black culture funny because I believe that the vast majority of white people are ignorant about black culture. Though white people tend to be incredibly good at talking about things of which they have next to no knowledge. :)
I find watching black people try to discuss white culture funny because I believe that the vast majority of black people are ignorant about white culture. Though black people tend to be incredibly good at talking about things of which they have next to no knowledge.
I have a feeling that minorities are involved more with the crimes that have been targeted for stiff sentencing. Of course those crimes may have been targeted because of minority involvement. :eyebrow:
White collar crime is handled in such a way that much less time as a whole is spent in prison. I'm betting that that goes a long way towards skewing the in prison representation of of whites versus minorities.
Additionally, money makes a case much easier to get pled off or successfully fought.
Not really, more a case of an assinine response to an assinine remark.
You might have noticed that I put a smiley face next to my original comment, because--while I do find it funny that whites are talking about black culture--it was meant to be humorous. Of course, you could have just asked what I meant without throwing your asinine remark in.
I find watching black people try to discuss white culture funny because I believe that the vast majority of black people are ignorant about white culture. Though black people tend to be incredibly good at talking about things of which they have next to no knowledge.
Though I can't back it up with any type of study, I think whites have the lion's share of the "talking out of my ass" market.
And I think blacks know way more about white culture than vice versa because they live in (what is still) a predominantly white culture.
Two items
I reread the thread, which is sometimes good to do, and I think Cyber Wolf has the most insightful comment in it, summarizing Sharpton and Rangel as trying to be the heroic black leaders of the past but failing to address the fact that the past is past.
I listened to Mary Mason on WHAT for 15 minutes just now. This discussion was on incarceration of innocents. I don't think I learned anything at all about black culture. Ms. Mason has annoyed me for many decades now and I won't be further annoyed. LSyc, if you have a point to make about it you are not getting it across by giving out homework assignments.
And I think blacks know way more about white culture than vice versa because they live in (what is still) a predominantly white culture.
Bullshit.
In real life, they live in their community, which urban demographics show is most likely to be a concentration of minorities, rather than a nationwide even distribution of one black family surrounded by eight white ones. So they are surrounded by their own culture there.
And in the media, a disproportionate amount of TV shows, commercials, and movies are steeped in Black culture, styles, and trends. I personally feel it's about a 50/50 split, but that's just anecdotal from channel-surfing. Regardless, they have plenty of cultural representation there.
The only place that I will agree is still dominated by white culture is the internet. To which I simply say--give it time.
Discussions like this one are bogus. Blacks are like this. Whites are like this. Talk about your overgeneralizations.
Treat people as individuals and not as 'examples' of some group and everything else will come out in the wash.
Thank you Dar. I agree. People are people. We have a natural tendency to break the world down to us and them, but I have a major problem with the people that stand up and cry for equality and an end to discrimination while perpetuating the us vs them mentality.
The laws in America have been changed to end segregation and the other nasty elements that went along with it. that happened years ago, we are still in the ongoing process of eliminating the thought process that is racism. the problem is that there are people who benefit by keeping the us vs them going (Jackson, Sharpton, some of the leadership of the NAACP). having a cause to champion is the key to their power and authority. if they encouraged a truly color blind society like MLK, Jr envisioned and spoke of, they would see their locus of power dissipate.
there are still many ignorant people with subconscious racially biased thought processes that affect their actions. there will always be some ignorant fools who consciously and purposely promote racism. we all know the KKK still exists and most americans despise them for what they are - ignorant, cruel fools who want to keep our society divided and racially conflicted. But the KKK aren't the only ones who do this - I believe, to a degree, Jackson, Sharpton, and Co. do the exact same thing just with different verbage.
The only way to truly end racially motivated discrimination and ignorant behavior is for the groups to integrate and know each other as individuals. the average person has biases against certain groups of people, but they may have friends that fall into those groups. They don't have any problems with that person and respect and view them just as any other person. That person has been removed from the group bias because the biased individual knows them as a person.
As long as we have large groups of people rallying together because of their "differentness" then we will have fear, ignorance, descrimination, and all the nasty things that go along with it.
Like I posted earlier, the only really important differences are in how people think, not skin color, height, shape of the nose, etc.
Two items
I reread the thread, which is sometimes good to do, and I think Cyber Wolf has the most insightful comment in it, summarizing Sharpton and Rangel as trying to be the heroic black leaders of the past but failing to address the fact that the past is past.
*Pleads the fifth...*
I listened to Mary Mason on WHAT for 15 minutes just now. This discussion was on incarceration of innocents. I don't think I learned anything at all about black culture. Ms. Mason has annoyed me for many decades now and I won't be further annoyed. LSyc, if you have a point to make about it you are not getting it across by giving out homework assignments.
There are several other hosts on the station that are worth listening to. If you can, try Reggie Bryant between 10pm and 1am. Yes, that's late for most folk. He used to be on during the day. I think he got bumped to late night to make room for Air America (12 noon-7pm). Also, the lineup on the weekends is pretty good as well.
I honestly felt that I had made my point by giving the link to the site for those who would want to listen to the station. IMO, any explaination that I could give would not prove or explain much of anything (as far as what a group of blacks are talking about, listening to, etc.). You know how they say, "go to the source".
But, that's just me. *shrugs*
[In reponse to dar's post]
Well, if we want to turn the focus back to the "individual" then we should probably cease using the term "culture." Unless we are saying that the term "[fill-in-the-blank] culture" has no meaning since its a generalization and that generalizations do not apply.
*Pleads the fifth...*
...
IMO, any explaination that I could give would not prove or explain much of anything (as far as what a group of blacks are talking about, listening to, etc.).
See, but you're not making a point if your whole point is "If you don't get it already, I can't explain it to you." You made a veiled threat about how some people on this board would not like one bit what issues black folks are talking about, but won't simply name those issues. You claim to be in the know about what black folks are talking about, but then you suggest that we go to the source. Why is some inflammatory DJ any more or less "the source" than you are?
i prefer american culture. and i refuse to put qualifiers in front of american. african-american, mexican-american, etc... gay american and ugly american are still ok though. :D
I think he got bumped to late night to make room for Air America (12 noon-7pm).
That is absolutely hilarious ... white liberal talk radio has taken away the voice of expression of blacks. Gotta love it.
:headshake
[In reponse to dar's post]
Well, if we want to turn the focus back to the "individual" then we should probably cease using the term "culture." Unless we are saying that the term "[fill-in-the-blank] culture" has no meaning since its a generalization and that generalizations do not apply.
The notion of a society where everyone is "individual" is a myth. Even if we were to have some sort of tower of Babylon moment where we were scattered to the corners of the earth, within a year we would have grouped ourselves up again based on skin color, religious affiliation, like/dislike of Britney Spears...
And anyway, most generalizations have at least a kernel of truth to them. They're not universally true, but they're true somewhere. White people eat an inordinate amount of mayonnaise. Black people are more likely to be good gospel singers. So?
The fact remains that people are still responsible for their actions. Opportunity is something that has to be sought out - you can't just sit around on the doorstep waiting for someone to hand it to you. And that's what Sharpton, et al, are preaching. Their constituency is starting to see the hypocrisy, and it won't be long before another MLK steps up to put the asshats in their place.
[/blahblahblah]
[In reponse to dar's post]
Well, if we want to turn the focus back to the "individual" then we should probably cease using the term "culture." Unless we are saying that the term "[fill-in-the-blank] culture" has no meaning since its a generalization and that generalizations do not apply.
Oh, there are cultures. But to speak of the black culture or the white culture as though there was only one of each is useless.
Thank you Dar. I agree. People are people. We have a natural tendency to break the world down to us and them, but I have a major problem with the people that stand up and cry for equality and an end to discrimination while perpetuating the us vs them mentality.
Yes, "people are people": great on paper, great to say and a kick ass song by a kick ass group..oh sorry. :D
Anyway, as far as I'm concerned, this is all lip service: "We're all the same" "People are People", etc.Just because one says it doesn't and won't make it true. Funny how "all men are created equal" but are not treated as such.
I realize this may not be the "popular" view here, but oh well, that's just how I see things.
Clodfobble said:
"See, but you're not making a point if your whole point is "If you don't get it already, I can't explain it to you."
LOL, but you just said that was my
"whole point" so wouldn't that have
BEEN a point?:D
And at any rate, when I said, "any explaination that I could give would not prove or explain much of anything (as far as what a group of blacks are talking about, listening to, etc.)." was merely to say that a single black person couldn't possibly speak for other blacks (plural). Damn. And why should I? That's not my responsibility or job to do, and I won't. Just as I don't expect other blacks to speak for
ME.
You made a veiled threat about how some people on this board would not like one bit what issues black folks are talking about, but won't simply name those issues.
Threat? Threat???? LMAO! Lordy...No, not at all. (good grief!!) :3_eyes: :confused: WTF is up with all these assumptions?! :rolleyes:
ANYhoo, I did state (not threaten) that there are indeed some topics and issues that blacks discuss that certainly would not set right with some people here. And the only reason why I posted the link to the radio station that I listen to quite frequently is so that people here could hear
FIRST HAND (or at least, get
SOME idea) what I was talking about, instead of having me to explain and not get my point across clearly, and end up having a senseless back and forth thing that will just get dragged on and on into oblivion.
You claim to be in the know about what black folks are talking about, but then you suggest that we go to the source.
Precisely. Isn't that what Cellerites love...sources? ;) Besides, why are you getting so bent out of shape about that?
Why is some inflammatory DJ any more or less "the source" than you are?
If you are referring to Ms. Mary Mason (noted in UT's post to me), I have to say that she is not so much "inflammatory" as she is brutally honest with many things. But, that's in the eye of the beholder...
However, as I told UT, there are many other show hosts that one can listen to on that station. I would really love to be able to tune you all into Joe Madison. I listened to him while back home in MD, and he was a great source of information:
http://joemadison.com/
And as I said, I thought that's what people here appreciated: a link to a source to examine, study, etc. etc.
Funny: when anyone else here provides a link, it's just a link, people check it out, and even comment on the source (good, bad, can't trust it, whatever), but in this case, it's considered a "homework assignment" and I get all kinds of adversity about it...interesting.
Their constituency is starting to see the hypocrisy, and it won't be long before another MLK steps up to put the asshats in their place.
Don't hold your breath, victimhood and denial of responsibility is a lucrative nostrum.
Read up on the "diffusion of responsibility" studies in psychology.
In real life, they live in their community, which urban demographics show is most likely to be a concentration of minorities, rather than a nationwide even distribution of one black family surrounded by eight white ones. So they are surrounded by their own culture there.
Of course. But that's one part of a whole.
And in the media, a disproportionate amount of TV shows, commercials, and movies are steeped in Black culture, styles, and trends. I personally feel it's about a 50/50 split, but that's just anecdotal from channel-surfing. Regardless, they have plenty of cultural representation there.
Some parts of black culture are certainly becoming more mainstream, like hip-hop (which I personally think is overplayed in the media). But that's still just one part (or a few parts) of a whole. Not to mention, other cultures are taking things like slang and hip-hop and putting their stamps on them...so is that more representative of black culture in the end, or more representative of the culture "updating" it? Or is it equal?
The only place that I will agree is still dominated by white culture is the internet. To which I simply say--give it time.
I think that there is definitely a "digital divide" in terms of users, but as far as content, I'd say the 'net is incredibly diverse compared to "reality."
Yes, "people are people": great on paper, great to say and a kick ass song by a kick ass group..oh sorry. :D
Anyway, as far as I'm concerned, this is all lip service: "We're all the same" "People are People", etc.Just because one says it doesn't and won't make it true. Funny how "all men are created equal" but are not treated as such.
I realize this may not be the "popular" view here, but oh well, that's just how I see things.
To my knowledge God/Mother Nature makes people and I doubt if he/she has read the declaration of independence. People are not equal, some are pretty, some are smart, some have rhythm, and some have mechanical ability. Only a few of us have it all. :king:
Funny: when anyone else here provides a link, it's just a link, people check it out, and even comment on the source (good, bad, can't trust it, whatever), but in this case, it's considered a "homework assignment" and I get all kinds of adversity about it...interesting.
C'mon Rho, how long do I have to listen to these stations to find out what there discussing? 1 hour? 1 evening? 1 week? That's hardly the same as linking an article that I can read at my convenience and make a judgement on it's author and content. I'm not looking for a hobby or thesis subject. Besides, I wonder if what makes it on the radio as the supposed topics on every black mind, is the same as the shit being talked about among blacks when I walk up and they look at me like "it's a black thing, you wouldn't understand".
I work with some older black men that have been around long enough to have lived Jim Crow at it's worst. They've been colored, nigger, negro, black and African American. A few on them won't even talk to white people unless it's required to do their job. They've told me stories (yeah they talk to me) of things that happened to them in the 30's, 40's and 50's that floored me. Regardless of the changing laws and times, you can't say, that's in the past, move on, to these men. They have been permanently scarred, I would be too. But to their credit they don't preach hate to the younger ones and give me the impression they don't approve of the "jive ass niggas" either. :apimp:
Though black people tend to be incredibly good at talking about things of which they have next to no knowledge.
Ahh, now that talent is raceless.
Discussions like this one are bogus. Blacks are like this. Whites are like this. Talk about your overgeneralizations.
Treat people as individuals and not as 'examples' of some group and everything else will come out in the wash.
Many people do treat others as individuals...that's a good thing. I don't think discussions like this are a bad thing though because (at least to me) it's a given that not everyone is going to fit into a particular "mold."
As long as we have large groups of people rallying together because of their "differentness" then we will have fear, ignorance, descrimination, and all the nasty things that go along with it.
I don't think that there's anything wrong with celebrating our differences as people. The problems start when one group thinks of themselves as superior to others.
C'mon Rho, how long do I have to listen to these stations to find out what there discussing? 1 hour? 1 evening? 1 week? That's hardly the same as linking an article that I can read at my convenience and make a judgement on it's author and content. I'm not looking for a hobby or thesis subject. Besides, I wonder if what makes it on the radio as the supposed topics on every black mind, is the same as the shit being talked about among blacks when I walk up and they look at me like "it's a black thing, you wouldn't understand".
I can read an article about the red people, and deem it legitimate or crap. Hell, I can read 3 or 4 articles about the red people. And based on those articles, I may know a little about red people. But how much? Chances are that it's probably not going to be much.
I listen to Rush and Hannity roughly once or twice a week...they're not the end-all be-all on conservative thought, but when I combine that with reading right-wing material or television plus what some of you folks here are saying, then I have what I think is a pretty good perspective on conservative thought.
Regardless of the changing laws and times, you can't say, that's in the past, move on, to these men. They have been permanently scarred, I would be too. But to their credit they don't preach hate to the younger ones and give me the impression they don't approve of the "jive ass niggas" either.
That sounds like my father-in-law...Rho can better explain him than I can, but he did quite well for himself and his family. Shit...Rho's family had way more money than mine growing up. :)
That is absolutely hilarious ... white liberal talk radio has taken away the voice of expression of blacks. Gotta love it.
Oh, Wolf...I love you to death, but sometimes, I dunno about you. :)
White liberal talk radio isn't "taking black voices away"...it's the owner of the station. In the case of WHAT, that would be Inner City Broadcasting, which is a company owned and run by...
wait for it...
black people!!!
Now of course, one could argue as you did. And one could argue that ICBC is beating up on its own kind. But given that many black folks will probably agree with a lot of the things that Al (who I happen to think is hilarious--you should listen to his CD) and his gang are discussing, one could argue that ICBC is merely adding "stronger" voices and/or being diverse.
Opportunity is something that has to be sought out - you can't just sit around on the doorstep waiting for someone to hand it to you.
Not necessarily. Sometimes, they just happen to fall in your lap. On the flip side, you could search the ends of the world, but you just might not find/get an opportunity.
And that's what Sharpton, et al, are preaching. Their constituency is starting to see the hypocrisy, and it won't be long before another MLK steps up to put the asshats in their place.
Sharpton and his ilk keep issues that are important to many blacks in the forefront...just when you think they've gone away, here they come again! I don't think they're looking for a handout (yes, free health insurance is a handout, but we'll talk about that at another time)...they just want to sit at the table of brotherhood. And from their perspective, they're still at the kiddie table...or in small chairs that leave them looking up at the table.
Having said that, Sharpton and Jackson have big-time credibility issues...issues that they've brought on themselves. I think they've done much good for blacks, but it's time for them to let someone else take charge...a Kweisi Mfume, a Harold Ford or a Jesse Jackson, Jr. perhaps.
The problems start when one group thinks of themselves as superior to others.
But, everyone thinks the group they belong to is superior to other groups, at least on some level. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. It's when you combine that pride with a lack of human decency and respect. Ignorant, hateful people can be found in any race, country, religion, whatever.
But, everyone thinks the group they belong to is superior to other groups, at least on some level. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. It's when you combine that pride with a lack of human decency and respect. Ignorant, hateful people can be found in any race, country, religion, whatever.
Agreed...and you can't legislate thoughts or feelings.
Not necessarily. Sometimes, they just happen to fall in your lap. On the flip side, you could search the ends of the world, but you just might not find/get an opportunity.
You're right, but most times, if someone gets an opportunity to better themselves, they did a bit of legwork themselves. Pure luck isn't all that common - just go to Vegas sometime.
Sharpton and his ilk keep issues that are important to many blacks in the forefront...just when you think they've gone away, here they come again! I don't think they're looking for a handout...they just want to sit at the table of brotherhood. And from their perspective, they're still at the kiddie table...or in small chairs that leave them looking up at the table.
They're perpetuating emnity between races by constantly pointing out perceived slights, insults, etc. But they're not offering feasible solutions. One of the biggest jokes of modern society is this business of "raising awareness" as a solution to a problem. Pinning ribbons on lapels, booking a celebrity for a $1,000/plate dinner, bitching on cable news shows, and marching with signs raises awareness, but it's never ever ever been shown to do a damn bit of good FIXING anything. Ditto for governmental programs - they're poorly administrated, corrupt, and serve only to "show people that we're doing something". Instead, people need to be good to one another on an individual level. That can't happen when supposed "leaders" are constantly throwing lit matches into a brushpile.
Ahh, now that talent is raceless.
Oh come on, how'd you miss my clever cut and paste job?
They're perpetuating emnity between races by constantly pointing out perceived slights, insults, etc. But they're not offering feasible solutions.
I thought Sharpton had some really good plans during his presidential campaign...and he's nowhere near the firestarter he was 15 years ago.
Are folks like him too sensitive? Maybe, but that's a subjective thing...who's to say he's not in the right?
One of the biggest jokes of modern society is this business of "raising awareness" as a solution to a problem. Pinning ribbons on lapels, booking a celebrity for a $1,000/plate dinner, bitching on cable news shows, and marching with signs raises awareness, but it's never ever ever been shown to do a damn bit of good FIXING anything.
I wouldn't say that. The 1963 Birmingham incident started as one of "raising awareness," and wound up being the catalyst that led to the Civil Rights Act and Voting Rights Act.
Ditto for governmental programs - they're poorly administrated, corrupt, and serve only to "show people that we're doing something". Instead, people need to be good to one another on an individual level. That can't happen when supposed "leaders" are constantly throwing lit matches into a brushpile.
I agree that we should treat each other well on an individual level...and I think we're getting there. And I agree that some--if not most--government programs are poorly administered. But they greatly help people who truly need them. Now, we could wax ad infinitum about how these programs may or may not have conditioned people into expecting handouts, but...
I thought Sharpton had some really good plans during his presidential campaign...and he's nowhere near the firestarter he was 15 years ago.
That reminds me, what is he trying to do to help the Puerto Ricans after his last visit? Last I heard, they had an expected $300,000,000 yearly shortfall thanks to him.
Oh yeah...Vieques was all his doing. Anyway...
I don't think that there's anything wrong with celebrating our differences as people. The problems start when one group thinks of themselves as superior to others.
but that is inevitable. group relationships always fall into competition and conflict on some level.
think about when you were a kid on some sports team. you hated those bastards on the other team. they didn't play like you. they weren't as good as your team and they cheated, too. fast forward 12 months and the teams have shifted. now that some of those guys from the other team are on your team, they aren't so bad afterall. all of humanity is divided into "us and them". the more actively a group maintains its separateness and differentness, the more likely it will be viewed with suspicion and negative attitudes.
i'm not saying that we shouldn't all be proud of who we are, but there are much more important aspects of oneself to take pride in than our color.
why should you be proud of your color anyway? could you change it if you weren't especially proud of it? and how about guys like us syc? - "i'm proud to be white." if that isn't an invitation for people to wonder if you are white supremist i don't know what is. but you hear about black pride, hispanic pride, etc. and it is just dandy.
The term "pride" carries a bunch of societal baggage these days. "Black pride," "white pride," "gay pride," all conjure instant associations with fringe groups. Another perfectly good word appropriated by special interests and taken out of everyday usage for the rest of us.
the more actively a group maintains its separateness and differentness, the more likely it will be viewed with suspicion and negative attitudes.
There can be a lot of factors involved with that, though...relationship between the two groups, history between them, etc.
i'm not saying that we shouldn't all be proud of who we are, but there are much more important aspects of oneself to take pride in than our color.
Color is only a small part of it. It's about pride in a
people.
why should you be proud of your color anyway?
See above.
could you change it if you weren't especially proud of it?
Watch the movie
Black Like Me...or look at Michael Jackson. :)
"i'm proud to be white." if that isn't an invitation for people to wonder if you are white supremist i don't know what is. but you hear about black pride, hispanic pride, etc. and it is just dandy.
And Italian pride, and German pride, and Irish pride...
For a very long time, it wasn't cool to be different from the norm--hell, it's still not cool in some circles. Then some folks began a counter-culture of sorts..."Hey, there's nothing wrong with me being different! In fact, it's cool as shit!" And it went from there...
If people are proud of being white, hey, that's fine. The problem is that "I'm proud to be white/white pride/white power" are the equivalents of "nigger." You can make it incredibly positive or empowering, but it's gonna be tough--if not impossible--to shake the negative connotations historically associated with the words.
Oh yeah...Vieques was all his doing. Anyway...
I'm willing to bet that if he hadn't stuck his nose in where it didn't belong that there would still be a base there. Lobby groups can try to extort money from all of the private sector companies that they want, but as has been shown all the military has to do is utter a hardy "Fuck you Silver, away!" and problem solved.
Color is only a small part of it. It's about pride in a people.
What exactly is a people?
What do Italians have to be proud of?
What do Spaniards have to be proud of?
What do Chinese have to be proud of?
What do blacks have to be proud of?
again - i'm more impressed with someone who simply says "proud to be american". everyone wants to celebrate and tout their differentness but then turn around and cry because america has become so divided.
I can think of only two groups in which I sometimes feel pride.
- My generation: I feel a kinship with people my age more than with any other group. The distinct experiences that we share, even from thousands of miles apart, are amazing. I really hope that my generation's time in power will undo some of the bullshit approaches of the past. Although from human nature I know that we also bring new problems to the table as well.
(In April of 2003 it was thought that my generation had finally faced a challenge and faced it head-on. We were 2-0 and kicking ass. By one year later with Abu Ghraib, we had really completely blown it for the free world and the past victories were forgotten. This is my generation's calling: we will simultaneously fucking clean up the baby boomer's mess AND take the blame for it. Knowing the truth, I feel pride for us.)
- Americans: the connection is weaker, but from time to time it comes through and gives me that moment of pride.
I'm willing to bet that if he hadn't stuck his nose in where it didn't belong that there would still be a base there.
Possibly, but Sharpton wasn't the only high-profile person protesting, and there had already been problems with Vieques two years prior to him getting involved.
Maybe we should do less celebrating of our differences and more celebrating of our commonality.
That's it.....[COLOR=DarkRed]Every[/COLOR][COLOR=DankOrange]body[/COLOR] [COLOR=Indigo]Poops[/COLOR][COLOR=DarkGreen] Day[/COLOR]! :biggrin:
What exactly is a people?
My use of "people" in this case refers to people who have a shared ancestry, history and culture.
What do Italians have to be proud of?
What do Spaniards have to be proud of?
What do Chinese have to be proud of?
What do blacks have to be proud of?
Each group has plenty to be proud of...off the top of my head, the Spaniards and Italians can claim Columbus, the Chinese helped build railroads out west and blacks have brought us different types of music and food.
Each group has plenty to be proud of...off the top of my head, the Spaniards and Italians can claim Columbus, the Chinese helped build railroads out west and blacks have brought us different types of music and food.
A bit of a disparity in scale eh?
again - i'm more impressed with someone who simply says "proud to be american". everyone wants to celebrate and tout their differentness but then turn around and cry because america has become so divided.
I don't think we've ever been as united as some people think. And right now, I think the divisiveness we have is due to strong differences in opinion...differences that cross racial and economic divides.
I am proud to be American, but there are times when I am embarrassed to be so. And I can understand why some folks are not proud to be American...I hope that we can get to the point where those folks
are proud one day.
A bit of a disparity in scale eh?
How so?
Maybe we should do less celebrating of our differences and more celebrating of our commonality.
That's it.....[COLOR=DarkRed]Every[/COLOR][COLOR=DankOrange]body[/COLOR] [COLOR=Indigo]Poops[/COLOR][COLOR=DarkGreen] Day[/COLOR]! :biggrin:
How about Bruce is a Big Ol' Poop Day?
:turd:
:)
This is my generation's calling: we will simultaneously fucking clean up the baby boomer's mess AND take the blame for it. Knowing the truth, I feel pride for us.)
You realize that you
are a baby boomer (1946-64), right?
How so?
What exactly is contributed by black culture that seperates it from other cultures? What sets it apart so much that people are willing to kill each other over it? What is so important that people are willing to generate an arbitrary and unnecessary divide in american culture based on it? Is it some great change in paradigm that is shaping a better tomorrow? A new math that gives us the Unified Field Theory? An easily learned language that will make all men brothers? A weapon so hideous that all cultures agree to end war?
All I'm asking, and this applies to all of the associated parties, is what is so important about skin color that it's necessary to make up cultural differences when it's more important that we generate a set of synergistic commonalities instead?
What exactly is contributed by black culture that seperates it from other cultures?
You essentially already asked this question in a previous post, which I answered.
What sets it apart so much that people are willing to kill each other over it?
I'm not exactly sure what you mean here. How do you know that people are actually killing each other over black culture?
What is so important that people are willing to generate an arbitrary and unnecessary divide in american culture based on it?
I believe that black and other minority cultures developed due to a forced divide by the powers that be back in the day. If there was any arbitrariness involved, I would say that it was on the side of the powers that be. Those cultures remain today because they provide a rich history and legacy for those people not necessarily covered by mainstream culture...plus they preserve the culture and help ensure that it continues. And I don't think that's a bad thing.
All I'm asking, and this applies to all of the associated parties, is what is so important about skin color that it's necessary to make up cultural differences when it's more important that we generate a set of synergistic commonalities instead?
See my response above. I'm not sure that synergistic commonalities are so important.
You realize that you are a baby boomer (1946-64), right?
No, I go by Strauss & Howe's 13th Generation 1961-1981.
survived a hurried childhood of divorce, latchkeys, open classrooms and devil-child movies. They came of age curtailing the earlier rise in youth crime and fall in test scores — yet heard themselves denounced as so wild and stupid as to put The Nation At Risk. As young adults, maneuvering thru a sexual battlescape of AIDS and blighted courtship rituals, they date and marry cautiously. In jobs, they embrace risk and prefer free agency over loyal corporatism. From grunge to hip-hop, their culture reveals a hardened edge. Politically, they lean toward pragmatism and non-affiliation and would rather volunteer than vote. Widely criticized as "slackers," the non-techies among them have faced a Reality Bites economy of declining young-adult living standards.
I think I'll keep the '46-'64 years for the Boomers along with Gen X ('65-'75 or '79 or '81...no one seems to agree on this one like they do on the Boomers). Gen X was a great punk band...The 13th Generation sounds like some crappy '70s lite rock band. :)
syc - i don't naively believe this nation was once united and it has become divided. but once upon a time the goal of those less fortunate, due to segregation and economics, was to join the ranks of the fortunate. to be a part of what they were missing out on. that was the whole point of the civil rights movement. a group of people were unfairly denied access to opportunities simply because the color of their skin. the laws have changed. access is there. unfortunately, there are people that prefer crying about lack of opportunity, instead of taking advantage of the opportunities already available. achievement isn't easy, but it is possible. it shouldn't be easy. i have yet to see a successful person of any color who is obsessed with the roadblocks in front of them. most successful people don't have time to stand and bitch about why life is unfair to them. they are too busy working toward a goal. they may acknowledge the difficulties along the way but they focus on the possibilities in front of them. and i think that is what bill cosby and others have been trying to say.
I think I'll keep the '46-'64 years for the Boomers along with Gen X ('65-'75 or '79 or '81...[COLOR=DarkOrange]no one seems to agree on this one like they do on the Boomers[/COLOR]). Gen X was a great punk band...The 13th Generation sounds like some crappy '70s lite rock band. :)
Born 1943-1960 An idealist generation, often stressed out. Some sources suggest true baby boomers were born between 1946 to 1964 after World War II to experience the pop media revolution and the ideal of peace in our times.
Not everyone agrees. ;)
Not everyone agrees. ;)
Put it this way...quite a few people agree that the Baby Boomers were born between 1946 and 1964. The same cannot be said for Generation X.
Bastard. :)
And quite a few people disagree, saying it's '43 to '60. It appears the social security people are among that group. :p
Who do you trust more? SSA or AARP? :)
the laws have changed. access is there.
Laws have indeed changed, and I think they're helping. But like I said last night, you can't legislate thoughts and emotions.
unfortunately, there are people that prefer crying about lack of opportunity, instead of taking advantage of the opportunities already available. achievement isn't easy, but it is possible. it shouldn't be easy.
What you call "crying about lack of opportunity" others see as expressions of legitimate concerns.
i have yet to see a successful person of any color who is obsessed with the roadblocks in front of them.
I happen to know quite a few successful people that are concerned about the roadblocks that they and their people continue to face, namely my in-laws.
most successful people don't have time to stand and bitch about why life is unfair to them. they are too busy working toward a goal. they may acknowledge the difficulties along the way but they focus on the possibilities in front of them. and i think that is what bill cosby and others have been trying to say.
Similar to what I said above, what you call "standing and bitching about why life is unfair to them" some see as legitimate complaints, concerns and/or voicing opinion.
I think a lot of what Cosby has said has been spot on, though some of it has been just plain silly.
You realize that you are a baby boomer (1946-64), right?
We didn't used to be.
The cutoff was 1959/60 ... I was very proud to be part of the unnamed generation that was sandwiched in between the boomers and Generation X.
I can describe the change in a way that makes it obvious to you specifically Syc; dig this;
In autumn 1982 I started DJing dance parties at my college. That year there were two "staples" that we had to play or there would be trouble amongst the drunken sorority sisters. One was "Paradise by the Dashboard Light", the other was "Working for the Weekend".
These were kids who thought the Cars were "edgy" and the Police were "too weird". Adam and the Ants, or Adam Ant solo, would enrage them. Billy Idol released his first solo album in 1982 and it contained "White Wedding" and "Dancing with Myself" and it DID NOT PLAY. They HATED it! Those drunken sorority sisters were born in 1960-61.
By 1985, though, things changed. I could see it happening. By the end of 1985 we were able to play Depeche Mode, and by 1986 they became critical. Idol's first album finally played and then and then his initial EP with "Mony Mony" suddenly reappeared, and THAT became the song we HAD to play. Those drunken sorority sisters were born in 1963-64, the front for the arrival of the new culture.
Or, take Elvis Costello. Did you know his ONLY charting song was "Everyday I Write the Book" in 1983? Before that, no EC song made the "Top 40". Because the baby boomers couldn't relate so well, but the 13ers/Xers understood.
But the true anthem of the early Xers is "How Soon is Now". This brilliant song includes as original a signature guitar riff as you'll ever hear... hard and edgy and a little frightening, it's as closely tied to the song as the opening of "(I Can't Get No) Satisfaction". But is there a single "classic rock" station in the USA that has played it ONCE? No. That right there is the defining cultural line; if you dug it, you are 13er/Xer, if not, you are Boomer.
It took until 1993 for another anthem to appear to represent the second wave of Xers.
That's interesting, UT. I don't think Strauss & Howe are phony at all, and I apologize if it seemed like I was totally dismissing them.
Having only been a child in the early 80s, I don't have such a detailed reference. From what I've seen, most people over 40 don't get Metallica, Nirvana or Depeche Mode. Many people 25-40 do. Right now, a lot of kids under 25 love bands like Chevelle and The Used...I'm 29, and I don't care much for them.
What you call "crying about lack of opportunity" others see as expressions of legitimate concerns.
The "expressions of legitimate concerns" is the right, if not duty, of every thinking person. The difference lies in if they are expressing these concerns while working to improve their lot or while waiting for someone else (gumint?) to do it for them.
aside- From what I've seen the best shot at equal treatment for minorities and women is through labor unions. While not perfect, because they are run by people, Unions are small enough organizations that if you feel you're not being treated fairly you can interact personally with the leadership. The Union keeps the Company from abusing you (at least abusing you more than others) and if the Union is abusing you, both the Company and the Feds are willing to step in on your behalf. I don't want to derail this thread so if you have a beef with unions please start a new thread. ;)
Yup... for me, it was Good Charlotte. Holy crap, they just *suck*, don't the kids see it? What is it with this youth culture!
The "expressions of legitimate concerns" is the right, if not duty, of every thinking person. The difference lies in if they are expressing these concerns while working to improve their lot or while waiting for someone else (gumint?) to do it for them.
Keep in mind, though, that many people believe that the government
should take care of such issues. That's not necessarily good or bad...it just is.
Yup... for me, it was Good Charlotte. Holy crap, they just *suck*, don't the kids see it? What is it with this youth culture!
They're hit and miss with me...I like some of their stuff. I have a soft spot for them b/c they broke while we lived in DC, and they're from nearby Waldorf, MD. Kind of like how I have soft spots for Philadelphia artists, even if I don't like them (Freeway, Jaguar Wright).
Eve and of course The Roots which we have talked about before. Does Philly get its props for turning out such legitimate musicians as its contribution to hip hop?
I'd say so...The Roots helped put Philadelphia back on the music map.
Keep in mind, though, that many people believe that the government should take care of such issues. That's not necessarily good or bad...it just is.
I think it's bad and I think it's a product of the welfare system.
That mentality of, it's the gumints job, has been seeping into the thinking of the general public, for the people that grew up in the welfare system as a given and for the people who were not in the system thinking "well if they gumint can take care of those people on welfare they can damn well take care of my problem.
The other thing being "if the gumint can spend $300 million studying the sex life of a tree frog they can damn well take care of my problem".
I think most people will agree that any problem the gumint sets out to handle, is going to cost too much and take too long, at best. :)
I don't disagree with you on your last point, Bruce. As far as the government's role in our lives...I do think that the government should take care of us. Having said that, I don't think the bureaucracy could be tamed to the point where it would be possible, which is why I support ending SS and do not support universal healthcare.
Good Charlotte? The Roots? Eve?
WTF is that?
I was born in 1970. What labelled generation am I in?
They're music artists (The Roots and Good Charlotte are bands) that have risen to popularity over the past 5 years. Are you not familiar with them? If not, I wouldn't be surprised, given that you didn't know who The Smiths were...and you lived in the UK during the height of their popularity. :)
Depending on who you talk to, you're either a Gen Xer or part of the 13th Generation.
I don't disagree with you on your last point, Bruce. As far as the government's role in our lives...I do think that the government should take care of us. Having said that, I don't think the bureaucracy could be tamed to the point where it would be possible, which is why I support ending SS and do not support universal healthcare.
Oh I see, having paid the max to SS all these years, now that I'm ready to collect, you want to stop it. I don't think so. :eyebrow:
Easy there, old man. Any child born on or after...lets say 1/1/08...should not receive SS.
They're music artists (The Roots and Good Charlotte are bands) that have risen to popularity over the past 5 years. Are you not familiar with them? If not, I wouldn't be surprised, given that you didn't know who The Smiths were...and you lived in the UK during the height of their popularity. :)
Depending on who you talk to, you're either a Gen Xer or part of the 13th Generation.
Never heard of them. Granted, I don't have my radio on 24/7 or anything, but I've heard of the big popular people.
And quite a few people disagree, saying it's '43 to '60. It appears the social security people are among that group. :p
Any definitions of the Baby Boomers that have a date of conception preceding V-E day are pretty silly.
Any definitions of the Baby Boomers that have a date of conception preceding V-E day are pretty silly.
the injured came home early and ushered in the new america, popping out kids, starting construction companies, buying land, and pushing higher education. anything after '43 should be reasonable.
Easy there, old man. Any child born on or after...lets say 1/1/08...should not receive SS.
Not if Bush gets his way. He'll have spent it paying for his adventures in Allah land. :mad:
the injured came home early and ushered in the new america, popping out kids, starting construction companies, buying land, and pushing higher education. anything after '43 should be reasonable.
There wasn't any construction going on that wasn't for the War Department. As a matter of fact if something wasn't part of the war effort it just didn't happen until VE day and then only a little before VJ day. Therefore they had plenty of time for poppin' out babies. :)
Boomer is a much shortened version of what was originally [COLOR=DarkOrange]Post War[/COLOR] Baby Boom. Shortening the name shouldn't alter the original definition, but with the rate that history is being rewritten these days, Who knows. :rolleyes:
C'mon Rho, how long do I have to listen to these stations to find out what there discussing? 1 hour? 1 evening? 1 week? That's hardly the same as linking an article that I can read at my convenience and make a judgement on it's author and content. I'm not looking for a hobby or thesis subject.
Then don't regard it as such *shrugs*. It was merely a suggestion. You can listen as long or as little as you like, but let's be "real" here: to only listen for an hour/evening/week isn't going to create miracles, but hell, it's a start.
Besides, I wonder if what makes it on the radio as the supposed topics on every black mind, is the same as the shit being talked about among blacks when I walk up and they look at me like "it's a black thing, you wouldn't understand".
I've always wondered why that statement makes some white folks so dang crazy? And no Bruce, every subject that is discussed are not on *every* black mind.
I work with some older black men that have been around long enough to have lived Jim Crow at it's worst. They've been colored, nigger, negro, black and African American. A few on them won't even talk to white people unless it's required to do their job. They've told me stories (yeah they talk to me) of things that happened to them in the 30's, 40's and 50's that floored me. Regardless of the changing laws and times, you can't say, that's in the past, move on, to these men. They have been permanently scarred, I would be too. But to their credit they don't preach hate to the younger ones and give me the impression they don't approve of the "jive ass niggas" either. :apimp:
My father is somewhat the same way.
Curious: what's "preaching hate" to the younger ones? :confused:
They're perpetuating emnity between races by constantly pointing out perceived slights, insults, etc. But they're not offering feasible solutions. One of the biggest jokes of modern society is this business of "raising awareness" as a solution to a problem. Pinning ribbons on lapels, booking a celebrity for a $1,000/plate dinner, bitching on cable news shows, and marching with signs raises awareness, but it's never ever ever been shown to do a damn bit of good FIXING anything. Ditto for governmental programs - they're poorly administrated, corrupt, and serve only to "show people that we're doing something". Instead, people need to be good to one another on an individual level. That can't happen when supposed "leaders" are constantly throwing lit matches into a brushpile.
Well, as far as I'm concerned,
NO ONE has
*the* answer anyway. So, I personally listen to every suggestion, and pick the one that I have some common ground with.
What exactly is a people?
What do Italians have to be proud of?
What do Spaniards have to be proud of?
What do Chinese have to be proud of?
What do blacks have to be proud of?
How about asking Italians, Spanish, Chinese, Af/Americans, etc. what they are proud of? ;)
Keep in mind, though, that many people believe that the government should take care of such issues. That's not necessarily good or bad...it just is.
IMO, the government has a responsibility to take care of it's citizens, to a certain degree.
Notice people: I didn't say in
EVERY sense, so don't get on my damn case about handouts, etc. :eyebrow:
How about asking Italians, Spanish, Chinese, Af/Americans, etc. what they are proud of? ;)
The question is what has each of those groups accomplished?
I've always wondered why that statement makes some white folks so dang crazy? And no Bruce, every subject that is discussed are not on *every* black mind.
Because it's being said by a group that is simultaneously bitching about not being included in our reindeer games.
The question is what has each of those groups accomplished?
But why ask those who are not of those ethnicites? :confused: It's always good to go to the source.
Originally Posted by ladysycamore
I've always wondered why that statement makes some white folks so dang crazy? And no Bruce, every subject that is discussed are not on *every* black mind.
TS:
Because it's being said by a group that is simultaneously bitching about not being included in our reindeer games.
And if you can't beat 'em or join 'em...then do your own damn thing. :thumbsup:
AAAANYway, there are just some things that I may mention that you will not possibly relate to in a way that another Af/American will relate to. (and NOOO I don't mean "studying" or "discussing" either!!)
Not to say that
ALL Af/Ams will necessarily relate, but I'd be willing to bet that they would have
SOME kind of
recognition/connection in some way. I just don't see why that's so "upsetting" to some people.
But why ask those who are not of those ethnicites? :confused: It's always good to go to the source.
I'm beginning to see a pattern here. Do you really have any answers of your own? Do you actually have an informed opinion based on research or study or do you just glom on to the most recent tidbit or the most strident voice of protest?
As far as sources, I believe that I have read enough history to be sure of the accomplishments of the non-black groups in my previous question, my point was to ask whether you actually have any clue of the accomplishments of the group that
you are so busy trumpeting about.
And if you can't beat 'em or join 'em...then do your own damn thing. :thumbsup:
So it's a case of sandlot politics?
AAAANYway, there are just some things that I may mention that you will not possibly relate to in a way that another Af/American will relate to. (and NOOO I don't mean "studying" or "discussing" either!!)
So you're going to further perpetuate the stereotype by pretending that that whole "black thing" is a good thing and that people should just not try to understand?
Not to say that ALL Af/Ams will necessarily relate, but I'd be willing to bet that they would have SOME kind of recognition/connection in some way. I just don't see why that's so "upsetting" to some people.
I think that both camps have enough crossover members that that doesn't hold water. I've seen more than enough ethnically challenged people in this town as well as my share of people who are successful regardless of their heritage.
Originally Posted by ladysycamore
But why ask those who are not of those ethnicites? It's always good to go to the source.
I'm beginning to see a pattern here.
Really? I was just thinking the same of you.
Do you really have any answers of your own?
:haha: M'kay...
Do you actually have an informed opinion based on research or study or do you just glom on to the most recent tidbit or the most strident voice of protest?
*shrugs* I thought an opinion was an opinion no matter where it came from.
As far as sources, I believe that I have read enough history to be sure of the accomplishments of the non-black groups in my previous question, my point was to ask whether you actually have any clue of the accomplishments of the group that you are so busy trumpeting about.
"Originally Posted by Troubleshooter
What exactly is a people?
What do Italians have to be proud of?
What do Spaniards have to be proud of?
What do Chinese have to be proud of?
What do blacks have to be proud of?
YOU asked those questions, and IIRC, you asked them of Sycamore and
NOT me. Boy, for someone who like to study, you sure ask a lot of questions that I wouldn't have expected for someone of your expertise.
Oh and BTW, yes I
DO have a clue of the accomplishments of various ethnic groups, thanks.
Originally Posted by ladysycamore
And if you can't beat 'em or join 'em...then do your own damn thing.
So it's a case of sandlot politics?
You said it, not me. I was being somewhat facetious anyway..damn! :mad:
Originally Posted by ladysycamore
AAAANYway, there are just some things that I may mention that you will not possibly relate to in a way that another Af/American will relate to. (and NOOO I don't mean "studying" or "discussing" either!!)
So you're going to further perpetuate the stereotype by pretending that that whole "black thing" is a good thing and that people should just not try to understand?
LOL, again your assumptions. :rolleyes:
Never said it was "good" or "bad". It just "is". You can try to understand all you damn well want to. That doesn't mean that you
will. And wow, sometimes, it's
OKAYYYY to not understand
everyone and
everything! Whatta concept! :eek: !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Originally Posted by ladysycamore
Not to say that ALL Af/Ams will necessarily relate, but I'd be willing to bet that they would have SOME kind of recognition/connection in some way. I just don't see why that's so "upsetting" to some people.
I think that both camps have enough crossover members that that doesn't hold water.
"Crossover" is great, but that's not what I was talking about. Sure, there are some things that all/any group can relate to, and find some common ground, but there will be *some* things that we will not relate to when it comes to certain parts of various cultures. I'm talking about connections on a deeper level than just "studying" and "discussing".
Oh, btw, you (and anyone else) are officially invited to our
Kwanzaa Celebration on
The Bosque . Remember, the day after Christmas is "Umoja":
(Unity)
To strive for and maintain unity in the family, community, nation and race.
Habari gani! :D
Really? I was just thinking the same of you.
It's hard to go wrong if you share a few thoughts with me, but you missed a few vital steps.
*shrugs* I thought an opinion was an opinion no matter where it came from.
True, but that doesn't make it a
good opinion. One formed from an aggregation of knowledge and ideas that gives you a defensible point.
Boy, for someone who like to study, you sure ask a lot of questions that I wouldn't have expected for someone of your expertise.
That's because your idea of rhetoric is a snap and a turbo chicken neck twist.
Oh and BTW, yes I DO have a clue of the accomplishments of various ethnic groups, thanks.
Then make with discussion instead of evasion.
LOL, again your assumptions.
Never said it was "good" or "bad". It just "is". You can try to understand all you damn well want to. That doesn't mean that you will. And wow, sometimes, it's OKAYYYY to not understand everyone and everything! Whatta concept! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Maybe in your world ignorance is acceptable. Even the things that I'm unable to understand are brought back out into the light for a second or third study when time permits.
"Crossover" is great, but that's not what I was talking about. Sure, there are some things that all/any group can relate to, and find some common ground, but there will be *some* things that we will not relate to when it comes to certain parts of various cultures. I'm talking about connections on a deeper level than just "studying" and "discussing".
The is nothing,
nothing that seperates people other than thought. To perpetuate the idea of "it's a black thing," or "aryan supremecy" is intellectual laziness and a crime against humanity because it is the root of what is wrong in most of the world.
Oh, btw, you (and anyone else) are officially invited to our Kwanzaa Celebration on The Bosque.
http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=5914
Kwanza Komedy
By Kathy Shaidle
Published 12/16/2003 11:10:28 AM
'Twas the night before Kwanzaa
And all through the 'hood,
Maulana Karenga was up to no good.
He'd tortured a woman and spent time in jail.
He needed a new scam that just wouldn't fail.
("So what if I stuck some chick's toe in a vice?
Nobody said revolution was nice!")
The Sixties were over. Now what would he do?
Why, he went back to school -- so that's "Dr." to you!
He once ordered shootouts at UCLA
Now he teaches Black Studies just miles away.
Then to top it all off, the good Doctor's new plan
Was to get rid of Christmas and piss off The Man.
Karenga invented a fake holiday.
He called the thing
Kwanza. "Hey, what's that you say?
"You don't get what's 'black' about Maoist baloney?
You say that my festival's totally phony?
"Who cares if corn isn't an African crop?
Who cares if our harvest's a month or two off?
Who cares if Swahili's not our mother tongue?
A lie for The Cause never hurt anyone!
"Umoja! Ujima! Kujichagulia, too!
Collectivist crap never sounded so cool!
Those guilty white liberals -- easy to fool.
Your kids will now celebrate Kwanzaa in school!"
And we heard him exclaim as he drove out of sight:
"Happy Kwanzaa to all,
except if you're white!"
True, but that doesn't make it a good opinion. One formed from an aggregation of knowledge and ideas that gives you a defensible point.
Oh so now it's all about whether or not an opinion is "good" or not. (why am I not surprised...)
That's because your idea of rhetoric is a snap and a turbo chicken neck twist.
Oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo good one! I've been known to snap and twist on occasion.
Then make with discussion instead of evasion.
Hm...I thought I was discussing. :confused:
There is nothing, nothing that seperates people other than thought.
I suppose this is one of your "good opinions"?
To perpetuate the idea of "it's a black thing," or "aryan supremecy" is intellectual laziness and a crime against humanity because it is the root of what is wrong in most of the world.
Oh god..."crime against humanity"...:haha: Such melodrama.
Ok well, the offer to join the celebration still stands.
:D Good day.
As far as sources, I believe that I have read enough history to be sure of the accomplishments of the non-black groups in my previous question, my point was to ask whether you actually have any clue of the accomplishments of the group that you are so busy trumpeting about.
I know a lot of them. Those selfish black people invented so much good stuff they didn't leave hardly anything for anybody else to invent. :p
You're just jealous you didn't think of peanut butter first.
This gentleman is truly impressive ... not because he was Black, but because of what he was able to accomplish despite a lack of formal education.
Drive, initiative, and brilliance bring one to the fore, no matter what.
Drive, initiative, and brilliance bring one to the fore, no matter what.
Not necessarily, IMO. In many cases, certainly. But in some cases, opportunity/luck/fate plays the biggest role of all.
I know a lot of them.
That's because you're about as old as dirt. :)
You're just jealous you didn't think of peanut butter first.
Who wouldn't be?
Curious: what's "preaching hate" to the younger ones?
There are men (black, white and yellow) that preach to the younger ones that they should hate (fill in) because of things that happened to the older ones. Not warnings or cautions but demanding the young ones hate (fill in) out of duty to their elders rather than going on their own experiences. That just perpetuates hate. :(
You're just jealous you didn't think of peanut butter first.
Naw, I was thinking of some neat tools. A lot of things they invented were labor saving devices. Gee, now why do you think that was?
To spend more time fantasizing over white women. :)
Naw, I was thinking of some neat tools. A lot of things they invented were labor saving devices.
Like what?
Like eggbeater, street mailbox, ironing board, street sweeper, pencil sharpener, dust pan, gas mask, fountain pen, golf tee, torpedo, automatic car wash, turn signals, answering machine and traffic lights.
Or how about a microcomputer system with bus control means for peripheral processing devices.
Or finding by separating the liquid red blood cells from the near solid plasma and freezing the two separately, blood could be preserved.
Or how to synthesize physostigmine for treatment of glaucoma and cortisone for the treatment of rheumatoid arthritis.
Or how to remove cataract lenses and transform eye surgery, using a laser device making the procedure more accurate.
Or an illusion transmitter which transmits by cable or electromagnetic means a three-dimensional, real-time image.
Then there's fire-extinguishing foam for gasoline and oil fires, polymer foil-electrets for microphones but most important of all BEER KEG TAPS. :)
street mailbox
The street letter drop mailbox with a hinged door that closed to protect the mail was invented by Philip B. Downing. Downing, an African-American inventor, patented his new device on October 27, 1891 (US Patent # 462,096).
ironing board
African American, Sarah Boone, patented an improvement to the ironing board (U.S. Patent #473,653) on April 26, 1892.
street sweeper
Charles Brooks of Newark, New Jersey invented improvements to street sweeper trucks that he patented on March 17, 1896. His truck had revolving brushes attached to the front fender and the brushes were interchangeable with scrapers that could be used in winter for snow removal. Charles Brook also designed an improved refuse receptacle for storing the collected garbage and litter and a wheel drive for the automatic turning of the brushes and for powering a lifting mechanism for the scrapers. (See patent following page)
pencil sharpener
At first penknives were used to sharpen pencils. They got their name from the fact that they were first used to shape feather quills used as early pens. In 1828, Bernard Lassimone, a French mathematician applied for a patent (French patent #2444) on an invention to sharpen pencils. However, it was not until 1847 that Therry des Estwaux first invented the manual pencil sharpener, as we know it.
John Lee Love of Fall River, MA designed the "Love Sharpener." Love's invention was the very simple, portable pencil sharpener that many artists use. The pencil is put into the opening of the sharpener and rotated by hand, and the shavings stay inside the sharpener. Love's sharpener was patented on November 23, 1897 (U.S. Patent # 594,114).
dust pan
African American inventor, Lloyd Ray, patented a new and useful improvement in dust pans. Lloyd Ray invented a device with a metal collection plate attached to a short wooden handle in which trash could be swept into, without getting one's hands dirty.
gas mask
Garrett Morgan was an inventor and businessman from Cleveland, who invented a device called the Morgan safety hood and smoke protector in 1914. On July 25, 1916, Garrett Morgan made national news for using his gas mask to rescue 32 men trapped during an explosion in an underground tunnel 250 feet beneath Lake Erie. Morgan and a team of volunteers donned the new "gas masks" and went to the rescue. After the rescue, Morgan's company received requests from fire departments around the country who wished to purchase the new masks. The Morgan gas mask was later refined for use by U.S. Army during World War I. In 1914, Garrett Morgan was awarded a patent for a Safety Hood and Smoke Protector. Two years later, a refined model of his early gas mask won a gold medal at the International Exposition of Sanitation and Safety, and another gold medal from the International Association of Fire Chiefs.
fountain pen
Lewis Waterman patented the first practical fountain pen in 1884. Writing instruments designed to carry their own supply of ink had existed in principle for over one hundred years before Waterman's patent. For example, the oldest known fountain pen that has survived today was designed by a Frenchmen named M. Bion and dated 1702. Peregrin Williamson, a Baltimore shoemaker, received the first American patent for a pen in 1809. John Scheffer received a British patent in 1819 for his half quill, half metal pen that he attempted to mass manufacture. John Jacob Parker patented the first self-filling fountain pen in 1831. However, early fountain pen models were plagued by ink spills and other failures that left them impractical and hard to sell.
traffic lights.
Garrett Morgan stated in his patent for the traffic signal, "This invention relates to traffic signals, and particularly to those which are adapted to be positioned adjacent the intersection of two or more streets and are manually operable for directing the flow of traffic... In addition, my invention contemplates the provision of a signal which may be readily and cheaply manufactured."
The Morgan traffic signal was a T-shaped pole unit that featured three positions: Stop, Go and an all-directional stop position. This "third position" halted traffic in all directions to allow pedestrians to cross streets more safely.
Garrett Morgan's hand-cranked semaphore traffic management device was in use throughout North America until all manual traffic signals were replaced by the automatic red, yellow and green-light traffic signals currently used around the world. The inventor sold the rights to his traffic signal to the General Electric Corporation for $40,000. Shortly before his death, in 1963, Garrett Morgan was awarded a citation for his traffic signal by the United States Government.
Or how about a microcomputer system with bus control means for peripheral processing devices.
Or finding by separating the liquid red blood cells from the near solid plasma and freezing the two separately, blood could be preserved.
Or how to synthesize physostigmine for treatment of glaucoma and cortisone for the treatment of rheumatoid arthritis.
Or how to remove cataract lenses and transform eye surgery, using a laser device making the procedure more accurate.
Or an illusion transmitter which transmits by cable or electromagnetic means a three-dimensional, real-time image.
Then there's fire-extinguishing foam for gasoline and oil fires, polymer foil-electrets for microphones but most important of all BEER KEG TAPS. :)
Those were picked from an (much larger) email I received from a black friend of mine that I replied to. The whole (exactly duplicated and frequently wrong or unclear) list is frequently forwarded around the web during february, in addition to being posted in scores of places on the web.
You left a out quite a few other things as well, but more to the point is the fact that it's you and I having this conversation and not the person(s) who started the whole thing.
You left a out quite a few other things as well, but more to the point is the fact that it's you and I having this conversation and not the person(s) who started the whole thing.
*golf clap*
Don't strain your arm patting yourself on the back, okay?
*golf clap*
Don't strain your arm patting yourself on the back, okay?
That's not a problem. The advantage of of being so intellectually endowed has allowed me to transcend the necessity of such self-congratulatory calisthenics.
There are some people that are intelligent, and some people that are not, but can fool people into believing that they are.
You are neither.
There are some people that are intelligent, and some people that are not, but can fool people into believing that they are.
You are neither.
Opinions vary.