Bush, Communism, and the County Dem headquarters
These are from Bradford County, pre-election. What started out as a joke within our gunslanging group turned into a real eye-opener in this area.
The missions went like this:
Look for the most visible location or the most potentially irritating location, and put the biggest FING Bush sign you can there. Planting a sign with direct lighting on it earns bonus points. Four by eight signs are obviously better.
All missions start after 10pm but preferably after midnight.
So, people are driving down the street on the way home from bible study -- no signs. When they woke up the following day -- BIG signs all over the FING place.
These big signs were popping up all over town and country. There was a lame effort from the opposition to plant their own signs, but they couldnt get the big signs and their little signs ended up vanishing in very large numbers. We also had people watching our signs because....we own the night.
The two below are some of the best; right across the street from the Dem county headquarters. The adjoining neighbor is also filing a suit against these ...people....for damage done by cars tearing up the lawn while getting in and out of the Kerry HQ parking spaces.
This was the most fun I have ever had at a job that doesnt pay money.
I didn't realize that Kerry was a communist...wow...that's news to me.
Excellent Exxxxxcellent!
Sweet!
Did you, uh, I mean the people who did this, hum the MISSION: Impossible theme while planting the signs?
I didn't realize that Kerry was a communist..
You don't get out much then. He's was very cozy with the Vietnam comms, which is one of many reasons he lost.
Sure, he can speak well and has great hair. He would have been a disaster to have in the White House though.
Of course, that's just my opinion though. Mine and that of the majority of people that went to vote.
Relax Sycamore. You'll have your chance to actively participate in 06 or 08. Get those fingers typing for your local Dem party grassroots efforts.
Sure, he can speak well and has great hair. He would have been a disaster to have in the White House though.
Of course, that's just my opinion though. Mine and that of the majority of people that went to vote.
Eh, no. The majority of people thought Bush was a better choice, not that Kerry would have been a "disaster to have in the White House."
Of course, your opinion didn't mean shit anyway, since this state went to Kerry. :)
since this state went to Kerry.
This time, my friend, this time it did....and all the difference it made.
This time, my friend, this time it did....and all the difference it made.
Not just this time...the last 4 times.
Sure, Kerry lost overall in the end. But how many times did Bush come here in the past 4 years? Yeah, that helped him a lot, didn't it?
I didn't realize that Kerry was a communist...wow...that's news to me.
Not only that, but the 100 million people is an interesting figure. Of course, the other two reasons to fight wars are capiltalistic and religious. Stalin as the world's premier communist probably accounts for most of that total, although China and North Korea have done their share.
It is generally agreed by historians that if famines, prison and labour camp mortality, and state terrorism (deportations and political purges) are taken into account, Stalin and his colleagues were directly or indirectly responsible for the deaths of millions. How many millions died under Stalin is greatly disputed. Although no official figures have been released by the Soviet or Russian governments, most estimates put the figure between 8 and 20 million. Comparison of the 1926-39 census results suggests 5-10 million deaths in excess of what would be normal in the period, mostly through famine in 1931-34. The 1926 census shows the population of the Soviet Union at 147 million while the 1939 census at 162 million. (Another census from 1937 is known as the "wrecker's census"; its figures were suppressed.) The highest death estimates are 50 million from the 1920s to 1950s, but they are probably greatly exaggerated.
I found
this resource totaling death tolls from wars and other conflicts. If we try to total the results by the political/economic system of the aggressor or stated reason, we would find that monarchies and religion are also to blame for millions of deaths. In fact, you will find that many nations, including the US, are built on the suffering and deaths of neighbors, indigenous populations, or slaves. I would like to see an estimate of Native American and slave casualties in the US from 1600-1900.
Communism is probably more susceptible to famine than capitalism, but I'm sure there were deaths during the Great Depression in the US due to famine. Noone was really to blame for the Spanish Flu Pandemic, which killed 21 million worldwide and about 850,000 in the US.
We also do not know at this point how many civilians in Iraq we have killed in order to liberate them or who have died from starvation or disease due to the collapse of the Iraqi infrastructure as a direct result of the war and inadequate reconstruction. So I do find it ironic in Bush supporters bringing up the topic of 'death tolls'.
If these signs turn ordinary Democrats into blithering apologists for Communism who can't help but work Iraq into it, it would appear that they work correctly.
because....we own the night.
...This was the most fun I have ever had at a job that doesnt pay money.
Gosh, that does sound like fun. Really brings back the memories too, we used to do that kind of shit all the time back when I was 12. Didja manage to get any pool hopping in?
Gosh, that does sound like fun.
It was. You should try it sometime. Are you allowed to stay up past 10?
If these signs turn ordinary Democrats into blithering apologists for Communism who can't help but work Iraq into it, it would appear that they work correctly.
Any more than the rest of the campaign turned Republicans into blithering apologists for Iraq who can't help but work 9/11 into it. :cool:
Here is a list of countries with communist parties. In some cases, these parties play a role in a coalition government. Let me know who you want to bomb next. :nuke: :rattat:
BTW, I don't apologize for Communism or for Capitalism. I just don't believe Stalin represents all Communism any more than I believe that Kenneth Lay represents all of Caplitalism or Boss Tweed represents all of Democracy. Nor do I believe you can discuss Communism without differentiating between, say, Marxism, Leninism, and Stalinism - any more than you can say Democracy without discussing the difference between a true democracy and a republic, which is what the US actually is. If you want slogans like Communism=Murder or Capitalism=Greed, then for that kind of simplistic crap you have to talk to the Jingoes. There seem to be a lot of them around these days.
Modern
Afghanistan - Peoples' Democratic Party of Afghanistan (Khalq)
Algeria - Algerian Party of Peace and Socialism
Argentina - Communist Party of Argentina
Australia - Communist Party of Australia
Austria - Communist Party of Austria
Bahrain - National Liberation Front of Bahrain
Bangladesh - Communist Party of Bangladesh
Belarus - Communist Party of Belarus, Party of Belorussian Communists
Belgium - Communist Party of Belgium
Bosnia and Herzegovina - Workers Communist Party of Bosnia and Herzegovina
Bolivia - Communist Party of Bolivia
Brazil - Brazilian Communist Party, Communist Party of Brazil
Britain - Communist Party of Great Britain (Provisional Central Committee) (Leninist), Communist Party of Britain, Communist Party of Scotland, New Communist Party of Britain
Burma - Burmese Communist Party
Canada - Communist Party of Canada, Communist Party of Canada (Marxist-Leninist) or Marxist-Leninist Party of Canada, Revolutionary Communist Party (Organizing Committees)
Chile - Communist Party of Chile
Colombia - Communist Party of Colombia
Costa Rica - Popular Vanguard Party, Costa Rican People's Party
Cyprus - Progressive Party of the Working People of Cyprus
Czech Republic - Communist Party of Bohemia and Moravia
Denmark - Communist Party of Denmark, Communist Party in Denmark
Dominican Republic - Force of the Revolution
Finland - Communist Party of Finland
France - Communist Party of France
Ecuador - Communist Party of Ecaudor
Egypt - Communist Party of Egypt
Germany - German Communist Party
Greece - Communist Party of Greece
Guadeloupe - Communist Party of Guadeloupe
Hungary - Workers Party
India - Communist Party of India, Communist Party of India (Marxist)
Iran - Tudeh Party of Iran, Worker-Communist Party of Iran
Iraq - Iraqi Communist Party, Worker-Communist Party of Iraq
Ireland - Communist Party of Ireland, Workers Party of Ireland
Israel - Communist Party of Israel
Italy - Communist Refoundation Party, Party of Italian Communists
Japan - Japanese Communist Party
Jordan - Communist Party of Jordan, Communist Workers' Party of Jordan
Kazakstan - Communist Party of Kazakhstan
Lebanon - Lebanese Communist Party
Lesotho - Communist Party of Lesotho
Luxemburg - Communist Party of Luxemburg
Malta - Communist Party of Malta
Martinique - Communist Party of Martinique
Mexico - Popular Socialist Party of Mexico
Moldova - Communist Party of Moldova
Morocco - Party of Progress and Socialism
Nepal - Communist Party of Nepal (Maoist), Communist Party of Nepal (Unified Marxist-Leninist)
Netherlands - New Communist Party of the Netherlands
New Zealand - Socialist Party of Aotearoa
Norway - Communist Party of Norway
Panama - People's Party of Panama
Paraguay - Paraguayan Communist Party
Pakistan - Communist Mazdoor Kisan Party, Communist Party of Pakistan
Peru - Communist Party of Peru
Poland - Communist Party of Poland
Portugal - Communist Party of Portugal, Portuguese Communist Party
Reunion - Communist Party of Reunion
Russia - Communist Party of the Russian Federation, Communist Workers Party of Russia
San Marino - Communist Refoundation (San Marino)
Serbia and Montenegro - New Communist Party of Yugoslavia
Senegal - Party of Independence and Labour
Slovakia - Communist Party of Slovakia
South Africa - South African Communist Party
Spain - Communist Party of Spain
Sudan - Communist Party of the Sudan
Sweden - Communist Party of Sweden
Switzerland - Swiss Party of Labor
Syria - Syrian Communist Party (Bakdash), Syrian Communist Party (Faisal)
Sri Lanka - Communist Party of Sri Lanka
Tajikistan - Communist Party of Tajikistan
Turkey - Communist Party of Turkey
Ukraine - Communist Party of Ukraine
United States - Communist Party USA, Maoist Internationalist Movement, Progressive Labor Party, Revolutionary Communist Party, Socialist Workers Party, Spartacist League, Workers World Party
Uruguay - Communist Party of Uruguay
Venezuela - Communist Party of Venezuela
Here is a list of countries with communist parties.
In power?? With a candidate running for the highest elected office in a democratic country?
That is an impressive list but really doesn't relate to the conversation. There are a large number of countries with Communists parties active. Are they in power? Very few. When they take power, then we'll talk about bombing them. We'll have to see what the "list of countries to bomb" looks like at that time.
It is interesting to me how many people here go out of their way to defend or explain Communism. Socialism I could understand but not Communism.
Any way you slice it, Kerry wont be the pres in the next 4 years and there are a boatload of people that are very happy for that.
So.....cry, insult and counter post on......the facts are the facts, Kerry lost and the cellar is short of right thinking people.
Look for the most visible location or the most potentially irritating location, and put the biggest FING Bush sign you can there. Planting a sign with direct lighting on it earns bonus points. Four by eight signs are obviously better.
So, people are driving down the street on the way home from bible study -- no signs. When they woke up the following day -- BIG signs all over the FING place.
Woo, yeah, I'm always glad to see when a very serious election is reduced to the goal of merely irritating people. Well, maybe you were expecting to change some voters' ideas with these signs and just thought that slightly-oversized signs were funny. You know, like clown shoes! Oh, man! I bet those bible study groups just went absolutely crazy when they saw those signs! How many of those church-goers' votes do you think you were able to sway away from Kerry? ;)
He's was very cozy with the Vietnam comms, which is one of many reasons he lost.
As an American, I'm so pleased that this election was determined by intelligent sound bites from commercials that were so well put together -- sound tracks and all. Without these, the common voter would have never have known that Kerry stood before the Senate and shamed all of our troops in Vietnam by revealing the war crimes the US was committing. I personally thank god that, today, we have an administration in the White House who will take every effort to cover these up and preserve the integrity of our soldiers. A clearly communist president would have been the worst thing to happen to this country! We're fortunate that slightly more than half of the population voted on the most important issues presented thirty second clips and voted for the Freedom-loving, small-government candidate!
*cough*...patriot act, phone taps, e-mail sniffing, spying on citizens, detaining citizens without cause for indefinite periods without fair trial, free-speech zones, faith-based government...*coughcough*
Of course, I can't find the site where I read about this earlier today, but the
Sandinistas are making a comeback in Nicaragua.
In power?? With a candidate running for the highest elected office in a democratic country?
That is an impressive list but really doesn't relate to the conversation. There are a large number of countries with Communists parties active. Are they in power? Very few. When they take power, then we'll talk about bombing them. We'll have to see what the "list of countries to bomb" looks like at that time.
It is interesting to me how many people here go out of their way to defend or explain Communism. Socialism I could understand but not Communism.
Any way you slice it, Kerry wont be the pres in the next 4 years and there are a boatload of people that are very happy for that.
So.....cry, insult and counter post on......the facts are the facts, Kerry lost and the cellar is short of right thinking people.
As I said, Communists are part of coalition governments in Europe. Socialists are in power in Europe. Let's not forget monarchies, constitutional and otherwise. As for defending Communism, I don't defend it as much as clarify overly simplistic (dumbed down) labels. I personally do not believe that pure Communism is any more viable than pure Capitalism. Both systems require that you let people starve to death if their level of contribution falls below their level of need. This kind of system is not only immoral it is unstable.
I think you are confusing crying :cry: or insulting :wstupid: with debating in a calm and rational manner. You will notice that I did not once, ever refer to you as a boneheaded slack-jawed inbred pig-chasing cousin-loving redneck idiot. I would distinctly remember if I had ever sunk to such a low and despicable level. :D
Rich, don't be all backpedaling now. Your original premise was that communism didn't kill 100M people. Now you want to discuss nuances of different kinds of Communism. And put it on some sort of sliding scale with Communism on one end and Capitalism on the other. I find that to be kind of ignorant. What kind of nuanced Communism worked in each of these different approaches to it?
explanation of terms, table
The notion that Capitalism and Communism are in contention for being able to provide for the citizens sorta died in the late 80s/early 90s when we learned that all the worst right-wing rumors about the U.S.S.R. were in fact true. The notion that we kids had when we were in college, that the U.S.S.R. was just a misunderstood grand experiment/hidden utopia? All that shit was wrong. Maybe you haven't been paying attention since college?
The war is over, Capitalism won. In fact the current controversy isn't whether it can provide enough for its people to live on, but whether it actually provides
too much and becomes "unsustainable".
Am I really dumb, or does that chart actually say that a particular .106th of a person was killed by Communism?
I mean, if you want to talk about 'nuanced'...
The column header (000) says the column is in thousands, so 0.106 indicates 106 killed.
Meanwhile, I'm still seeking details on the Famine of the Great Depression. For some reason this horrible event was not detailed in our history books.
Didja manage to get any pool hopping in?
No, no one asked me to pool hop, they asked us to install HUGE Bush signs on their property.
Your version does sound funny, but no, that's not how it worked. This was not a prank for the property owners. It was by request. And the requests were many.
Rich, don't be all backpedaling now. Your original premise was that communism didn't kill 100M people. Now you want to discuss nuances of different kinds of Communism. And put it on some sort of sliding scale with Communism on one end and Capitalism on the other. I find that to be kind of ignorant. What kind of nuanced Communism worked in each of these different approaches to it?
I didn't say that the total deaths by all Communist governments didn't total up to 100 million, I'm saying that not all Communist governments commit democides and not all democides are committed by Communists. The danger in believing that is that by bad things are always or always done by Communists is that this can cause one to assume that Capitalist societies are immune to abuses, that the freedom to buy a Big Mac means that all other freedoms are guaranteed. This kind of blindness is why Marx thought his revolution would occur in England and Jews assumed the worst persecution they would suffer in the 20th century would be in Russia, Poland and France.
Notice that while most of the table lists Communists dictators, almost half are not Communist. The ones who did not make the list, like Pinochet, are significant not for the number of indivduals murdered, but because of their ties to the US.
President Richard M. Nixon and Henry A. Kissinger, who served as his
national security advisor and Secretary of State, supported a right-wing
coup in Chile in the early 1970s, previously declassified documents show.
But many of the actions of the United States during the 1973 coup, and
much of what American leaders and intelligence services did in liaison with
the Pinochet Government after it seized power, remain under the seal of
national security. The secret files on the Pinochet regime are held by the
C.I.A., the Defense Intelligence Agency, the State Department, the
Pentagon, the National Security Council, the National Archives, the
Presidential libraries of Gerald R. Ford and Jimmy Carter, and other
Government agencies. According to Justice Department records, these files
contain a history of human rights abuses and international terrorism:
* In 1975 State Department diplomats in Chile protested the Pinochet
regime's record of killing and torture, filing dissents to American foreign
policy with their superiors in Washington.
* The C.I.A. has files on assassinations by the regime and the Chilean
secret police. The intelligence agency also has records on Chile's attempts
to establish an international right-wing covert-action squad.
* The Ford Library contains many of Mr. Kissinger's secret files on
Chile, which have never been made public. Through a secretary, Mr.
Kissinger declined a request for an interview today.
You will notice that I did not once, ever refer to you as a boneheaded slack-jawed inbred pig-chasing cousin-loving redneck idiot.
Yes Rich, and you have a sense of humor too. Fair enough ( Kerry still lost the election ) :biggrin:
Yes Rich, and you have a sense of humor too. Fair enough ( Kerry still lost the election ) :biggrin:
No hard feelings. I personally get a little tired when a politician declares 'My good friend Senator Whistlewort......' before he pulls out the knives, but I do agree that it's possible to debate without getting really nasty ...unless Radars around. :eek:
Rich, you're backpedaling in your backpedaling. You called the 100M number an "interesting figure" and then casually failed to find evidence to support it. I produced evidence to support it. I'm not sure why the question doesn't end there, except that now we need to discuss the Famine of the Great Depression.
[troll]So do we total Bushes slaughter(s) under fascist or democratic?[/troll]
Hey Griff,
Seriously, do you have any credible stats on these "slaughters"? I keep hearing about them but is there a source?
Well, counting the military folks is easy, but counting the civilians is a bit difficult.
You know we're smart enough not to keep score any more. We learned one thing from Vietnam anyway.
Johns Hopkins makes estimates however.
Excluding information from Falluja, they estimate that 100,000 more Iraqis died than would have been expected had the invasion not occurred.
I obviously can't vouch for the reliability of their numbers.
Rich, you're backpedaling in your backpedaling. You called the 100M number an "interesting figure" and then casually failed to find evidence to support it. I produced evidence to support it. I'm not sure why the question doesn't end there, except that now we need to discuss the Famine of the Great Depression.
I couldn't find evidence to support it, you did. According to your chart, about 110 million 'Communist' deaths and 59 million non-Communist. Considering that the two most populated areas of the world were the USSR and China, communist countries, then on a death per 1000 people chart, the non-Communist regimes might match the Communist.
Which brings me back to my point that noone who is shot cares about the politics behind the bullet.
Jesus Christ. Lotsa work for me around here.
Anyway......
Has everyone thought about how they might volunteer for their candidate or party in the coming elections?
Rich, you're backpedaling in your backpedaling. You called the 100M number an "interesting figure" and then casually failed to find evidence to support it. I produced evidence to support it. I'm not sure why the question doesn't end there, except that now we need to discuss the Famine of the Great Depression.
It seemed to me that he found the number interesting, then compared Communism to other political systems.
He also noted, "Communism is probably more susceptible to famine than capitalism, but I'm sure there were deaths during the Great Depression in the US due to famine."
Well, there was that Dust Bowl thing during the Great Depression, which could be considered a famine of sorts. And wouldn't ya know it! People did die of starvation during the Great Depression! (
Source)
You're welcome.
Jesus Christ. Lotsa work for me around here.
Anyway......
Has everyone thought about how they might volunteer for their candidate or party in the coming elections?
Hey, I got a great idea for you! How about you go play in some traffic! Believe me, you'll be much more useful in that capacity.
And wouldn't ya know it! People did die of starvation during the Great Depression! (Source)
You're welcome.
Wow, did that take a lotta work? Two-thirds of the way down the massive page:
Although few people died from starvation,
Wow, that makes that 100M figure look ridiculous! Good goin guys, the US IS evil after all! It sure looks like the moral equivalence of herding college professors into the gulags!
I'm sure famine numbers aren't included in the genocide numbers. I'm sure if we included them it would be even more obvious.
As for this:
Considering that the two most populated areas of the world were the USSR and China, communist countries, then on a death per 1000 people chart, the non-Communist regimes might match the Communist.
If I can get these cites you can too. Run the numbers, see what they say.
Wow, did that take a lotta work?
Not at all, actually. You might have been able to find it yourself if you hadn't been so busy taking Rich's comments way out of proportion.
I wonder how one would go about adding up the various crimes against humanity perpertrated by all the African, Asian and South American dictators and bloodthirsty tyrants the US installed and supported as a bullwalk against Communism, not to mention the 3-4mil dead in Vietnam alone. From Pinochet to Saddam to Idi Amin to list is long and bloody. While going though that list lets not forget the Shah who survived with strong US backing, amongst other things his secret police SAVAK, friendly chaps, had a habit of inserting broken glass and boiling water in the rectums of dissidents that liked the idea of self-rule. Sounds strangely familiar.....
list is long and bloody.
Yes Jag, but the real issue is that .........Kerry lost, to some bumblefuk dumbass that everyone with two firing brain cells was
absolutely sure would get his ass handed to him in a plastic bag.
Say whatever you want. He and the Brett girl wont be living in the oval office in the next 4 years.
Thank God for HUGE favors.
The continuing gradual crumbling of the american empire as it is slowly raped by the top 0.001% (not that kerry would have done much) is a relief but whether communism is responsible for more deaths than the US is more what I was referring to. However plenty of people expected him to win, myself included, it's difficult to overestimate the stupidity of the US electorate, it wasn't a shock.
..... it's difficult to overestimate the stupidity of the US electorate, it wasn't a shock.
Good to hear from you again, old pal.
Any comments on the recent Australian election? Big upset there too, from what I heard.
People are just "springing up dumb" all over the Fing place. ;)
Not unexpected, Howard is an astute political operator and Latham just didn't have the credibility, Howard also used some rather low smoke-and-mirror stuff which sadly people fell for. But hey, I said I don't beleive in democracy for a reason.
... but whether communism is responsible for more deaths than the US is more what I was referring to.
It is quite obvious that the US numbers are far lower than communisms. That doesn't excuse our record but we have to consider scale. Pol Pot alone kicks our butt.
He's was very cozy with the Vietnam comms, which is one of many reasons he lost.
I'm amazed, the war has been oven for 30 years and it seems the majority of the people in this country still don't get it.
It was a stupid idea. Not even a noble mistake, just stupid from the git-go.
To compound the problem it was run badly.....by politicians.
Our solders...excuse me...war fighters....are the best, hands down, but putting them in a conflict that they aren't allowed to win, is stupid. :mad:
Slang, get a job. :p
And then people view Kerry as traitorous for not holding a grudge against the people he was sent to kill.
Yes Jag, but the real issue is that .........Kerry lost, to some bumblefuk dumbass that everyone with two firing brain cells was absolutely sure would get his ass handed to him in a plastic bag.
Huh??? What are you talking about, Slang? Or are you just trying to be funny again?
I just noticed it's the year of the monkey, if course bush was going to get re-elected.
Yes Jag, but the real issue is that .........Kerry lost, to some bumblefuk dumbass that everyone with two firing brain cells was absolutely sure would get his ass handed to him in a plastic bag.
Say whatever you want. He and the Brett girl wont be living in the oval office in the next 4 years.
Thank God for HUGE favors.
So you are saying that our political system gives us a choice between Kerry, who critics claim is an opportunistic lightweight, and
some bumblefuk dumbass
Wow, way to go America!
Can we please have a Dean-McCain matchup in the next election!? No Bushies, no overly-liberal unelectable exotics, no neo-cons, no ex-Klansmen, no G-d driven fanatics, just two guys with different viewpoints, personal integrity and real honest-to-god populist ideals?
BTW, did you mean "Breck girl"?
If I can get these cites you can too. Run the numbers, see what they say.
I did, and it states that bad people come in all political shapes and sizes, and that numbers 1 and 4 of the world's bloodiest dicatators were at one point US allies. :3_eyes:
As for the Great Depression, thanks to the introduction of
'Socialism-lite', widespread famine was averted.
BTW, most of the New Deal was work-fare, not welfare.
That's great, Rich, but since you've already demonstrated a blatant ignorance of this recent history we can assume you're clueless about how it ended, too.
Don't make shit up, this is the Cellar.
By the way you did not "run the numbers" despite your claim, and we still await your findings about how other forms of government are just as deadly as Communism.
BTW, did you mean "Breck girl"?
I don't really believe hes a bumblefuk Rich. Just making the point that to many Kerry really should have been the pres, I mean , Dems in office are just the natural order of things. Reps only get into office when the people lose their minds.
I did Fark that reference up though :blush:
.... we can assume you're clueless about how it ended, too.
Yeah, what he said.
You and that Brett girl. :3eye:
That's great, Rich, but since you've already demonstrated a blatant ignorance of this recent history we can assume you're clueless about how it ended, too.
Don't make shit up, this is the Cellar.
"recent history", is that some sort of oxymoron like "compassionate conservatism"? Excactly what did I make up? The New Deal? I didn't mention Stalin's earlier association with Hitler, but I didn't lie about his dealings with the US, either. Or our dealings with Chiang Kai-shek.
As for democracy, is the US prepared to support a democratic islamic state in Iraq if that is what the people elect? Is the president ready to deal with the mix of church and state when it's not his church?
Communism collapsed in 1989. Capitalism collapsed in 1929. The British policy of colonialism folded all throughout the 20th century. What is left and what is working?
ut, how come you;re being a dick to rich? will you be calling his kids sissies next? wtf?
slang, the fact that bush won is resultant from one thing and one thing only: stupid people breed faster.
why dont you join the army and go fight in his war.....you have a lot of extra free time and it seems like it would fit your penchant for gunplay AND republican chest thumping.
Understand, to me, arguing for Communism IS being a dick.
We used to think that stuff worked until we woke up and took a look around. India was starving to death until they denationalized their farming industry. Ethiopia didn't have the kind of famine problems that Live Aid was created to remedy... until they went Communist and nationalized their farming industry. The US never nationalized dick, and surprise, it turned out to be the right way to go. 70-80 years later we have basically done away with scarcity problems COMPLETELY, but because there were a few years of difficult economy four generations ago, extended by the (anyone? anyone?) Smoot-Hawley tariffs of 1930, Rich thinks he has it all figured out and it's the mean money-making capitalists keeping us down. Never mind that the less productive nations have spent all their time killing each other, the fact that a small handful of people died in 1931 means that the market is a failure and the equivalent of Stalinism.
Well, FUCK THAT KIND OF NOISE. Wake the fuck up, take a look around.
EVEN THE CHINESE ARE FUCKING CAPITALISTS NOW, AND IT IS GOING TO MAKE THEM RICH. No complaints about market economies in the far east... they've woken up and smelt the fucking coffee already. It's like they say, there are more Communists at Harvard than there are left in eastern Europe.
slang, the fact that bush won is resultant from one thing and one thing only: stupid people breed faster.
Yeah I know. It's tough seeing your guy lose. Be patient. There is another election coming. Get involved with the process, don't just be bitter.
why dont you join the army and go fight in his war.....you have a lot of extra free time and it seems like it would fit your penchant for gunplay AND republican chest thumping.
I would seriously like to. My bro and two cousins are overseas. I'm too old right by the age limitations at this time, but with a little luck they'll change. I would seriously like to go in place of a young-married-with-children soldier.
In the coming months recruitment and enlisted numbers may decline. I'm already gearing up with a physical fitness program to pass a physical test, should the age limitations be changed.
You dont believe in the Iraq war and that's fine by me. You are obviously a sharp guy, that's your opinion. You have a lot of company here on the cellar. There are a lot of people that do support the war though. When I was visiting my brother I talked with as many soldiers as I could about going to Iraq. There was only one Kerry supporter that I ran into. The conversations were off duty and bro isnt an officer, so it's not like he or I could break their rocks over their answers.
The most common phrase I heard was "rather fight them over there than over here".
I'm sure they are all idiots too.
And....
Kerry lost.
The US never nationalized dick
You've heard of Amtrak, right? What the hell is wrong with you?
Rich, you weren't arguing for Communism, were you? It doesn't seem like it, but maybe I'm hallucinating.
And Slang, your stunt meant nothing in Pennsylvania. Congratulations!
I know. Some one else's in Ohio did. Don't be bitter though, there is another election coming. You can put your energies into electing the guy of your choice.
It is interesting and fun seeing you guys whine though. For months I read shit here that pissed me off and just let it slide. There are a lot of people here that dont like Bush. I can accept that. Why cant you accept that reasonable people from all over the country voted for Bush instead of Kerry? What, they were all fundies? Please.
I know, they'll all stupid. With that attitude and denial, the Dems will be losing even more elections in the near future.
And...
Kerry lost.
Why cant you accept that reasonable people from all over the country voted for Bush instead of Kerry? What, they were all fundies? Please.
Because if you look at the fallout from the last four years, both short term and long term, you have to be fairly off balance to vote for that.
Secondly UT, read
this, then look at the supporters. Then you might realize why capitalism, as it stands, is doomed. Or we are.
Who's bitter, Slang? I know Bush won, and completely accept that. I wrote a rather level-headed
piece just after the election and purposely didn't say much about the aftermath on Cellar b/c of all the whining.
But here you come 3 weeks after the election to rub it in and to and post some prank photos with some ridiculous shit about Kerry and Communists...that's as bad as some of those moveon.org ads. It was funny at first, but now it's just stupid. You're getting exactly what you're giving right now.
The election is over...your boy won, but your vote didn't count towards getting him there. That's it. Enough. Enjoy your victory. Meanwhile, people like me are gearing up for '08...you should too, since your boy can't run again...yet.
Because if you look at the fallout from the last four years, both short term and long term, you have to be fairly off balance to vote for that.
There are a lot of off balance people here then.
One of the reasons I come here to the cellar is to learn why. Why do these people think such riduculous ideas? Where in the world are they coming from? They can't all be stupid communist bastards, so why is it they form these crazy opinions?
In asking these questions I've learned a lot about how many of you think and how you arrived at that thinking.
Maybe looking at the masses that elected Bush from the same perspective would help some of you.
But I dont think so.....because you just cant. You are smarter. And that is why you lose. And will probably continue to until you re-examin this attitude.
Sure, you're right. Learn the details about why people think you're wrong and develop a non confrontational way of explaining your position.
Without being condescending.
Then you might win. Maybe.
Meanwhile, people like me are gearing up for '08...you should too
Good Syc. Getting involved does wonderful things for the grassroots orgs. I am still involved but not with 08 at this time. With 06. It seems we have to start working on operation "Good bye Ed".
This little stunt putting signs up in support of our candidate is really not a stunt. It's supporting our candidate. In this election it didnt matter. Maybe for the overall numbers but not for the electoral college, which is the key.
Both sides are gearing up and whatever the campaigns were this time around will be nothing compared to the next few.
It should be exciting and I look forward to volunteering more in the future.
I take a different approach. Of course your statement implies that I think the democrats are a viable alternative. I'm all for Bush, massive deficits, ban abortion, a bible in every home, ban gay marriage and put a Closed Circuit Camera in every living room and make piracy a death-penalty offence. Suits me fine, when it comes time to reap the whirlwind I'll sit back and laugh.
It seemed to me that he found the number interesting, then compared Communism to other political systems.
He also noted, "Communism is probably more susceptible to famine than capitalism, but I'm sure there were deaths during the Great Depression in the US due to famine."
Well, there was that Dust Bowl thing during the Great Depression, which could be considered a famine of sorts. And wouldn't ya know it! People did die of starvation during the Great Depression! (Source)
You're welcome.
Not to mention, the thousands of blacks during chattel slavery and beyond that were murdered...that's right
I SAID murdered, but doesn't seem as though anyone is getting all up in arms about THAT bit of glorious American history.
:meanface: :rolleyes:
Communism... :zzz: Isn't that supposed to be on the way OUT? :question:
I'd like to respond in more detail, but I gotta go sling phone books. Your post has given me an idea, however, Slang. Republicans get their books delivered direct to their coffee tables through their living room windows. The suckers have enough money to pay for the broken glass for the added convenience of in house delivery. Democrats will get their books left neatly to one side of the drive. Let 'em walk out there to get them! Viva la Revoluci'on!
Understand, to me, arguing for Communism IS being a dick.
Well, FUCK THAT KIND OF NOISE. Wake the fuck up, take a look around.
EVEN THE CHINESE ARE FUCKING CAPITALISTS NOW, AND IT IS GOING TO MAKE THEM RICH. No complaints about market economies in the far east... they've woken up and smelt the fucking coffee already. It's like they say, there are more Communists at Harvard than there are left in eastern Europe.
What I'm arguing is the the reason for people even attempting Communism is to fix failures in Capitalism. Our current system is not pure Capitalism, although with the repeal of the
Glass-Steegal Act, it appears we are trying to unlearn any lesson we learned from the Great Depression.
One argument for pure Capitalism is that wealth will automatically redistribute throughout society by trickling down from the wealthiest to the working class. In this case, the rate
of income inequality should go down as the government becomes more business-friendly.
A Maldistribution of Purchasing Power
A fundamental maldistribution of purchasing power, the greatly unequal distribution of wealth throughout the 1920s, was another factor that contributed to the Great Depression. Wages increased at a rate that was a fraction of the rate at which productivity increased. As production costs fell quickly, wages rose slowly, and prices remained constant, the bulk benefit of the increased productivity went into profits. As industrial and agricultural production increased, the proportion of the profits going to farmers, factory workers, and other potential consumers was far too small to create a market for goods that they were producing.
You've heard of Amtrak, right? What the hell is wrong with you?
Rich, you weren't arguing for Communism, were you? It doesn't seem like it, but maybe I'm hallucinating.
And Slang, your stunt meant nothing in Pennsylvania. Congratulations!
No I wasn't arguing for Communism. I was arguing against the bloody-shirt politics of bringing up Communism as the boogieman for any kind of criticism of pure Capitalism or the corporate state. Kerry=Communism=100 million dead? Give me a break!
What we have in the US is not pure capitalism. We will have pure capitalism on the day that lobbyists convince Congress to remove every environmental, labor, and financial protection written into law.
Maybe looking at the masses that elected Bush from the same perspective would help some of you.
People voted their "fears" (just as they were told not to...ah the sheeplings). Funny how the Bin Laden tape "appears" on the Friday before the election (giving it the weekend beforehand to marinate in the public's minds)...and now it's a distant memory, and all some people have to talk about is dumb old Communism? Who the hell cares??? :rolleyes:
Hey folks: wow, Bin Laden
STILL out there...well whaddya motherfucking know!!!! Think that Old Bushie boy will get him
THIS time around? I wouldn't put money on it.
:thumbsdn:
Yeah yeah...and Kerry lost. Big motherfucking deal already. :rolleyes:
Yeah I know. It's tough seeing your guy lose. Be patient. There is another election coming. Get involved with the process, don't just be bitter.
ok dude, I;ll give that a try. What's the offical uniform for these sign erecting missions, full cammo and face paint? ninja suit? underwear on the outside?
ok dude, I;ll give that a try. What's the offical uniform for these sign erecting missions, full cammo and face paint? ninja suit? underwear on the outside?
I think it's underwear on the head. Only I think they call it a 'brain sling'. :D
Secondly UT, read this, then look at the supporters.
Logical fallacy, Jag. An idea is not responsible for the people who believe in it.
I take a different approach. Of course your statement implies that I think the democrats are a viable alternative. I'm all for Bush, massive deficits, ban abortion, a bible in every home, ban gay marriage and put a Closed Circuit Camera in every living room and make piracy a death-penalty offence. Suits me fine, when it comes time to reap the whirlwind I'll sit back and laugh.
For someone who has never been to America, even as a tourist, you sure know exactly what we want, need, think, opine, believe.
Ut - I'm just pointing out PAE isn't obscure and it's sound enough to attract some heavy hitters. Why not try reading it?
wolf- I'm just being a touch hyperbolic about what bush is planning on doing, that probably won't have much in common with what you want, need, think, opine or believe either.
What we have in the US is not pure capitalism. We will have pure capitalism on the day that lobbyists convince Congress to remove every environmental, labor, and financial protection written into law.
They're working hard at it, just give it time ;)
You've heard of Amtrak, right? What the hell is wrong with you?
Nationalizing the railroad has been such an overwhelming success too ...
Amtrak hemmorhages cash, and has from the day it came into existence.
The metro isn't doing so well either, apparently, and that was funded with federal money too.
Federal funds fully pay or help pay for public transit systems and upgrades a lot. Federal funds will probably save SEPTA this coming week. Not to mention, you're talking about DC...the Feds take care of their own...mostly.
I only brought up Amtrak because a false statement was made, though I do think that it should be privatized and/or completely restructured.
Federal funds fully pay or help pay for public transit systems and upgrades a lot. Federal funds will probably save SEPTA this coming week. Not to mention, you're talking about DC...the Feds take care of their own...mostly.
I only brought up Amtrak because a false statement was made, though I do think that it should be privatized and/or completely restructured.
Federal funds for public transit do not nearly compare with highway funds. The
Brookings Instittute documents this disparity.
There used to be private toll roads in the US. The
Lincoln Highway was a privately funded interstate. If all road funds were funded from state and federal gas taxes, and tolls, public transit would be seem like a much better option. Of course, SEPTA would have to expand and become efficient at the same time. :smack:
What's the offical uniform for these sign erecting missions, full cammo and face paint? ninja suit? underwear on the outside?
Well....You will have to go to your own local Party grassroots meetings to see what jobs are available and what uniforms are appropriate for the different jobs.
I think the "underwear on the head" thing saved me from being asked to be a poll watcher. Use your own strategy for avoiding the jobs you don't want that they might want you to do.
Kerry=Communism=100 million dead?
I think the sign was trying to say Communism=100 million dead, is on the way out but Kerry is a communist sympathizer so a vote for him would be giving it another chance, just to make sure it's a bad system.
Not to mention, the thousands of blacks during chattel slavery and beyond that were murdered...that's right I SAID murdered, but doesn't seem as though anyone is getting all up in arms about THAT bit of glorious American history.
Don't forget to put the chinese and irish on that pity parade program...
....The suckers have enough money to pay.......
They might have cash out there but there are plenty out this way that don't have a lot of money.
One would be me, although things are looking up now that.....
Kerry lost. :D
I think the sign was trying to say Communism=100 million dead, is on the way out but Kerry is a communist sympathizer so a vote for him would be giving it another chance, just to make sure it's a bad system.
Actually, I agree with UT that the total victims of Communist dictators may be 100 million.
The part about Kerry being a Communist sympathizer is wrong, Kerry just knew that the US had to deal with Communist countries, especially in the area of MIA's from Vietnam. Kerry is no more a Communist than JFK, Clinton, FDR, or Nixon.
I found a couple stickers for the back of the pickup ...
I'm sure Rich would like to have them on the truck. They are funny. I think the BC04 sticker on the slangmobile is more the image I'm looking for though.
You know how image conscious I am. ;)
They might have cash out there but there are plenty out this way that don't have a lot of money.
One would be me, although things are looking up now that.....
That flying object that just came thru your window was a Colorado Springs "Yellow Book." No, that's OK, you don't have to thank me. The pleasure was all mine. :D
Kerry lost. :D
Yeah, we know that already. Get over it. Move on. :p
Yeah, I think I need to give everyone here a vacation. See you all later. Going to chill out and write KL on all my walls.
Slang, thank you for that up close and personal look at the Bush constituency. It explains a lot. :eyebrow:
I think the sign was trying to say Communism=100 million dead, is on the way out but Kerry is a communist sympathizer so a vote for him would be giving it another chance, just to make sure it's a bad system.
Of course anyone who voted for Bush has to be willing to set aside the fact that he is the President who nationalized education... right out of the little red handbook.
That's the real point. We sit here arguing Communism, that means the agenda has been controlled by the sign. That means the analogy stuck even if it was inaccurate.
Don't forget to put the chinese and irish on that pity parade program...
Heh...yeah. :thumbsdn:
I have seen a lot of stereotypes upheld in this thread.
*waves magic wand*
Liberals: Be more conservative!
Conservatives: Be more Liberal!
This red vs. blue, you vs. me, I'm right/you're wrong bullshit will send us all down the drain.
Don't worry Slothboy, we all love the same flag. :biggrin:
Shut the fuck up! No we don't! :D
I have seen a lot of stereotypes upheld in this thread.
*waves magic wand*
Liberals: Be more conservative!
Conservatives: Be more Liberal!
This red vs. blue, you vs. me, I'm right/you're wrong bullshit will send us all down the drain.
You need to take that thing back to the store and ask for your money back.
BTW, we're already all down the drain. What you see here is everyone slinging it out in the sewers! :D
BTW, we're already all down the drain. What you see here is everyone slinging it out in the sewers! :D
*smacks forehead*
Oooooh. THAT explains the smell.
You need to take that thing back to the store and ask for your money back.
BTW, we're already all down the drain. What you see here is everyone slinging it out in the sewers! :D
Speak for yourself. :eyebrow:
