I'm Moving to CANADA
Kerry just conceded, and I don't think I can take for more years of the GWB. Get me outta here!
You and Alec Baldwin, I guess.
You and Alec Baldwin, I guess.
Huh? :confused:
The baldwins were one of many actors who claimed that they would leave the country under some sort of criteria.
I'm still waiting.
I'm so bummed out, sick and depressed--I can't fucking believe that asshole got voted in. Well, all you who voted for W, you get what you deserve and I've earned the right to complain. I am going to apply for dual citizenship with Canada (mother is Canadian-born and raised) before I go to the UK this spring. I am NOT telling anyone that I am an American. Shame on us. Shame, shame, shame. If I didn't care so much about this country--I wouldn't care. :bawling:
Maybe you and OC can share a flight.
The only thing I ask is that you don't come back.
If you're willing go to all of that effort to avoid a problem I don't want you benefitting from the effort of anyone who actually tries to solve the problem instead of solving it.
I'm so bummed out, sick and depressed--I can't fucking believe that asshole got voted in. Well, all you who voted for W, you get what you deserve and I've earned the right to complain. I am going to apply for dual citizenship with Canada (mother is Canadian-born and raised) before I go to the UK this spring. I am NOT telling anyone that I am an American. Shame on us. Shame, shame, shame. If I didn't care so much about this country--I wouldn't care. :bawling:
I'm right there with ya, girl. Hey, now that you mention it, I believe I might be able to get Irish citizenship through some family ties. Definitely something to look into before I travel again.... :stpaddy:
Maybe you and OC can share a flight.
The only thing I ask is that you don't come back.
If you're willing go to all of that effort to avoid a problem I don't want you benefitting from the effort of anyone who actually tries to solve the problem instead of solving it.
Geez, relax. I'm simply voicing my disgust at the outcome of the election. Go take a pill.
Maybe you and OC can share a flight.
The only thing I ask is that you don't come back.
If you're willing go to all of that effort to avoid a problem I don't want you benefitting from the effort of anyone who actually tries to solve the problem instead of solving it.
Directed at me, ts? If so--let me say I admire your attitude but find it naive. This country does NOT belong to the people. It belongs to the despots bush/cheney and entourage. I cannot believe this country voted in a man who uses our tax money to reward companies for taking business overseas...well, I guess I can. halliburton does business with Iran vis a vis an offshore company. the people in charge of this country are criminals. And they've got four more years to pillage this nation. nice.
I suppose part of the vehemence of my response comes from being on campus during such times, but it doesn't change my sentiment. The problem is that so many people today are willing to just that, leave the country when there really isn't anywhere that is that much better. The trend I've noticed is that most of the people who are willing to leave are either so well off that rights don't matter or are so willing to give up their rights that moving where they won't have them is not great leap.
Canada is deprived of rights?
Kerry just conceded, and I don't think I can take for more years of the GWB. Get me outta here!
huh. every cloud DOES have a silver lining. any chance of you taking maristinkingchiko with you?
Geez, relax. I'm simply voicing my disgust at the outcome of the election. Go take a pill.
How's about merely stating something like "my guy lost."
That would be sufficient.
The problem is that so many people today are willing to just that, leave the country when there really isn't anywhere that is that much better.
Other countries may not be "better," but I have travelled extensively in Europe and do not see the reactionary, flag-waving, uneducated "we're-the-best" bullshit from people there that I see here.
The trend I've noticed is that most of the people who are willing to leave are either so well off that rights don't matter or are so willing to give up their rights that moving where they won't have them is not great leap
Well-off? That's a bit of a generalization. I work for a charitable non-profit org and took a 50% pay cut to do so. "Well-off" isn't in my vocabulary anymore. Would I actually move to Canada or anywhere else? Probably not. I haven't given up on this country--I'm just very saddened by the choice the people here have just made.
huh. every cloud DOES have a silver lining. any chance of you taking maristinkingchiko with you?
Did ya get your teeth fixed yet, LJ?
How's about merely stating something like "my guy lost."
That would be sufficient.
HUH? That doesn't even make sense. How does the phrase "my guy lost" voice any sort of opinion?
going to the dentist today, cunt. er, i mean garnet.......... you stupid cunt.
posted a picture of yourself yet?
cmon, fatty. it's easy to sit and throw stones when no one knows whether or not you live in a glass house. show me your flawless likeness and your perfect teeth.
going to the dentist today, cunt. er, i mean garnet.......... you stupid cunt.
posted a picture of yourself yet?
Cunt? Wow, you're getting desperate. Just what I'd expect of a sleazy, white-trash used car salesman with bad teeth.
Hey they have new clear braces nowthat can fix that horrible crooked tooth you have in front. If you get those, you might have an easier time scamming people into buying the broken down junk cars that you sell. :)
cmon, fatty. it's easy to sit and throw stones when no one knows whether or not you live in a glass house. show me your flawless likeness and your perfect teeth.
Well, at least you admit your teeth are bad. You know, the first step to getting help is admitting that you have a problem.
Well-off? That's a bit of a generalization. I work for a charitable non-profit org and took a 50% pay cut to do so. "Well-off" isn't in my vocabulary anymore. Would I actually move to Canada or anywhere else? Probably not. I haven't given up on this country--I'm just very saddened by the choice the people here have just made.
You left off the second half of my observation.
Boy this thread is friendly. I'm willing to sponser any political asylum seekers to Australia, Switzerland or Britain.
I just took the test for immigration on the Canadian website and I qualify as a skilled worker. Now all I need to find is $20,000 Canadian dollars to support me and my family in Canada for 6 months, and I'm on my way . . . :p
Other countries may not be "better," but I have travelled extensively in Europe and do not see the reactionary, flag-waving, uneducated "we're-the-best" bullshit from people there that I see here.
That is because they are not us. They are not the best.
Consider this possibility ... they do it, but without the flags.
National pride is something that does not solely exist in the United States. But we are the only country where people think they should feel bad about being themselves. That I don't get.
Enjoy your trip.
:usar:
Plenty of national pride in the UK, mostly white trash. Plenty in Switzerland, small flags, general sense of pride in enviornment and community. Not the wierd patriotism the US seems to inspire though. Still, the sun is setting on the American centuary, it's all good.
HUH? That doesn't even make sense. How does the phrase "my guy lost" voice any sort of opinion?
Being a gracious loser is an opinion. In a way.
My sons, ages 13 and 14, are NOT cannon fodder. I will NOT allow them to be drafted when this stupid effing war is still raging when they turn eighteen.
And, Jag, I'm curious; who do you propose to lead England? Who shall lead us all? IIRC the Porteguese did a fine job at one time...
That is because they are not us. They are not the best.
Consider this possibility ... they do it, but without the flags.
National pride is something that does not solely exist in the United States. But we are the only country where people think they should feel bad about being themselves. That I don't get.
Actually, we're the only country that feels the world should see how proud we are about our country and insist the world be in awe over it too. There's nothing wrong with national pride. It's that pride that can hold a country together when other things are pulling it apart. But it's chastising other countries for, frankly, not caring about our pride or how proud we are that's the problem and that's part of the problem up on the Hill at present. No, other countries aren't the USA. And the 'best' is purely subjective. They aren't obligated to be in awe and admire how much we love our country. Though lately, our National Pride is getting to be more like a touch of narcissism than anything else.
Plenty of national pride in the UK, mostly white trash. Plenty in Switzerland, small flags, general sense of pride in enviornment and community. Not the wierd patriotism the US seems to inspire though. Still, the sun is setting on the American centuary, it's all good.
I was in Poland in June, and the Polish are some of the proudest people I've ever met. And despite what they've had to overcome in their tumultuous past, they don't feel the need to shove their well-deserved national pride down the throats of everyone else. And I'm sure the same could be said of almost every other European country. There's nothing wrong with patriotism or national pride--just that many in the US have taken it to the point where it is obnoxious and embarrassing.
The difference, I think is that the Poles have near neighbors, and are subject to invasion.
That makes for a very different national character.
There's nothing wrong with patriotism or national pride--just that many in the US have taken it to the point where it is obnoxious and embarrassing.
I can agree with that. It's one of the many issues I have with Bush and his ideological clones.
Well, at least you admit your teeth are bad. You know, the first step to getting help is admitting that you have a problem.
You are giving LJ way too much credit. First, he ran his teeth issue by his internal sales staff while publicly villyfying dentists as oral butchers. When the staff reached a consensus, a position statement was developed. LJ then sent a draft of the statement to the owners of other competing dealerships to humbly request their assistance in refining the statement to one with which they might offer their concurrance. Further "refinements" and "constructive" adjustments were made to the statement as a direct result of the feedback of the placated, competing dealers.
Then, LJ, polled a statistically significant sample of customers to determine exactly how to refine and present his statement and ultimately the solution to his teeth issue so as to offend the fewest number of customers while simultaneously appealing to the greatest number of customers.
Alternatively, LJ could have just looked in the mirror and said, "I'm not happy with this - I think I'll do something about it." Its called decisiveness. De-cise-ive-ness.
And if you are going to attack somebody, don't use something they shared with you when you have declined to share the same. Its cheap, immature and unimaginative.
England? Leave blair in chance, the opposition are in joke, I'm just hoping the tories are relegated to minor party and the Jib Dems take opposition. Us all? Who the hell knows, the wonderful age of the death of nation states is still a long way off but traditional (last centuary) power blocks and relationships are on the way out and relationships of convenience are in. I still hope if I make it to being old and grey I get to see the dawn of an age where nations are nothing more than flags of convenience are to ships today. In the meantime, as the Chinese saying goes, we're doomed to live in Interesting Times.
The welfare state, the stable international relationships, they're all an historical anomoly payed for with debt, a side effect of the biggest problem with democracy - people realized they could vote themselves bread and circuses. The true cost of this centuary of decadence will be realized.
The difference, I think is that the Poles have near neighbors, and are subject to invasion.
That makes for a very different national character.
OK, what about Australia? Iceland? I didn't see any over-the-top flag-waving in those countries, either.
And if you are going to attack somebody, don't use something they shared with you when you have declined to share the same. Its cheap, immature and unimaginative.
First of all, I have no idea what the hell you're talking about in the first part of you post. If his teeth have been a matter of discussion here, it's news to me.
As for the quoted portion above, I find it entertaining that you're defending someone who has continually chosen to personally attack me simply because he doesn't like my opinions. He went on the attack on me in this thread, as he has done in every other case. I have ignored him and his posts for the last month.
And is it OK that he called me a "cunt"? To me, the use of that word in ANY context is "cheap, immature and unimaginative."
England? Leave blair in chance, the opposition are in joke, I'm just hoping the tories are relegated to minor party and the Jib Dems take opposition.
jag, I've no idea what that means. What is a Jib Dem??
Lib Dem, my bad (how did I get across two keys??), Liberal Democrats, a leftish 3rd party here, been gaining a lot of ground of late, lots of fresh new innovative ideas and surprisingly sound fiscal planning, good combination.
I hate to say it, but if you look at my prediction post, which some scoffed at, I wasn't off by that much on the electoral. To think that John Kerry could carry the day was, I'm sorry, but a snowball's chance in hell. The clincher for this election in many ways was the anti-Kerry vote. This represented about 15% of George Bush's support. John Kerry's flip flop image was only part of it. For many his testimony in front of the Senate Arm Services committee in '71 and the revelation that he had contributed to the torture of POWs in Vietnam due to his public statments, were damning in the end. This was his weakest point.
It's true that John F. Kerry served in Vietnam, and I believe with as much honor as possible, but his actions after the war were damaging to the soldiers in country during the conflict, and nothing could erase that. Bush and Cheney might have avoided service through various means, but they did not sell out our prisoners of war. All one has to do is liken that today, whether the cause is deemed honorable or not at this point, soldiers in Iraq have been sold out during this election, plain and simple. One could easily make an argument for the continued violence being fuled by election rhetoric. I await for the pouncing statments of ye' cellar dwellers, but remember, John Kerry did this to himself, GW might have used 527s to his full advantage, but John Kerry will never live down his protest past, a protest past that put GI's and POWs in danger in Vietnam, and in Iraq. Suggest a solution, but don't attack the efforts of grunts, it's just not what a aspiring Comander and chief does.
-Walrus
I hate to say it...
Liar. you LOVE to say it.
I desperately want to respect my fellow countrymen, and my nation as a whole. I am unable to do that.
I want my country to be safer. It certainly won't be that.
I want to be able to pursue life, liberty and hapiness. Apparently, I won't be allowed to do that unless I'm white, straight, and attend the same church they do.
I want to cry. I will do that.
- Pie
huh. every cloud DOES have a silver lining. any chance of you taking maristinkingchiko with you?
You just can't leave it alone, can you? I'll think I'll leave your comment to fall on its own lack of merit.
Boy this thread is friendly. I'm willing to sponser any political asylum seekers to Australia, Switzerland or Britain.
PM me with the details for Switzerland and/or Britain, Jag. I've got the money for plane fare and a little besides.
PS Flippant is here and says "Sign me up, too!!!!!!!!!!!!"
I'm trying very, very hard to imagine what my response would have been had the electoral vote situation been reversed.
I do know that I would not have a screamed, ranted, cried, and stated that I was taking my toys and going to someone else's house because YOU'RE NOT NICE.
Boo hoo. Weep weep.
It would have been another day. I have nuts to wrangle, bills to pay, and other responsibilities to attend to.
I don't need to give energy to pointless frustration.
Take a lesson from the name of the biggest 527 ... move on.
Wow. I wonder what George Soros is saying this morning ... he thought he bought himself a presidency ...
Re-elected Bush. Gains in the Senate. Gains in the House. Gains in governors races, state assemblies, and local elections.
This is a serious question: in light of the fact that the progressive movement staged a very effective get out the vote campaign, had access to massive amounts of money, by most accounts won the debates, did everything "right" in the election, why do you think they lost this election in such spectacular fashion? Is it a process failure (somehow didn't manage to communicate their issues) or an ideology failure (most people know their issues and disagree)?
-sm
Without access to any scholarly articles or analysis, I'm going with ideology failure.
What the Democrats and Left think the country wants was clearly not what the country wanted, this time.
This is particularly shown by the house and senate races, I think.
It's not just R this time. It's overwhelmingly R.
I think what needs to be examined more politically would be values, rather than issues alone.
It would have been another day. I have nuts to wrangle, bills to pay, and other responsibilities to attend to.
I don't need to give energy to pointless frustration.
Take a lesson from the name of the biggest 527 ... move on.
If you don't have time to deal with all of all of our "pointless frustration" why are you responding to so many threads about it? Shouldn't you be out wrangling nuts?
If Kerry would have won, would you have clammed up stated that it's time to "move on"? I doubt it--I suspect you be debating the election and the outcome just like everybody else is. It appears that you are enjoying gloating over the victory of "your guy," despite the fact that he didn't even carry your state.
I'm trying very, very hard to imagine what my response would have been...
It would have been another day. I have nuts to wrangle, bills to pay, and other responsibilities to attend to.
I don't need to give energy to pointless frustration.
Well, then why are you? Go wrangle your nuts and whistle a merry tune. Your side won, isn't that enough for you? Now, you want the rest of us to be happy about it. That's asking a bit much, don't you think? Judging by the way you've hung around here gloating, I think you probably would have hung around being gloomy, as well, if your side had lost.
This is a serious question: in light of the fact that the progressive movement staged a very effective get out the vote campaign, had access to massive amounts of money, by most accounts won the debates, did everything "right" in the election, why do you think they lost this election in such spectacular fashion? Is it a process failure (somehow didn't manage to communicate their issues) or an ideology failure (most people know their issues and disagree)?
I think it's simpler than that. The Democrats put Kerry up there. I voted for the guy, but not because I liked him. He is NOT inspiring. I can't speak for the swing voters, but I think if Bill Clinton's clone were able to run, Bush would have been pummled. It wasn't communication or ideology. It was personality.
so, they're not quite perfect. far from my biggest flaw, though.
Simple fact is, Bill Clinton now holds no water. You look at 41's approval ratings in 1991 during the Iraq war, primo. But once war was over the recession was revealed in all of its crapiness. I don't Bill Clinton would have done much better in this environment. His constant polling and his verbal acrobatics would scare voters now. Clinton served his purpose for the time, a time of relative peace and quiet. Of course, while he was leading trouble was brewing. Sending cruise missles, meeting with Yasser Arafat, and pulling out of Somalia didn't help. Let's face it, Clinton, and any such clone would only work in the 90's period.
-Walrus
Republicans have become the masters of framing issues in misleading light. I bet a significant number of people voting for gay marriage bans thought that the courts were going to force churches to perform gay marriages. A disturbing number of Republicans think we found WMD in Iraq and Saddam was involved in 9-11. The Swift Boat Veterans were treated as a he-said-she-said, despite the fact that absolutely none of the physical or contemporary evidence, or prior statements by many members, supported their accusations. Everybody knows two or three "flip-flops" by Kerry, but massive Bush flip-flops went unmentioned.
Democrats just don't have the media machine, and hopefully they will find a way to be as effective without becoming as deceptive.
so, they're not quite perfect. far from my biggest flaw, though.
Yikes, that's an unpleasant picture. They're yellow too--you're a smoker, no? Have you thought about just forgetting the whole thing and getting dentures? :)
you're just bitter because i like to take pot shots at your tired ass.
you'd bang me.
trollop
you'd bang me.
Dude, how old are you? From the content of you last few posts I'd guess about 15. Seriously, nobody cares what your teeth look like, and nobody is interested in your crass, immature comments. It's totally pathetic, and you're making a huge fool of yourself.
It's totally pathetic, and you're making a huge fool of yourself.
He's way past that point. We all are, or were, or will be doing such.
It is inebitabull...
you'd bang me.
With your strap-on or hers? ;)
Dude, how old are you? From the content of you last few posts I'd guess about 15.
That is an awfully purty, scruff-free, baby-smooth chin up there...
With your strap-on or hers? ;)
precisely.
and garnet, not only are you ugly, stupid and butch, but you have zero sense of humor as well.
retard
I'd rather talk about strap-ons and fur-lined handcuffs than Who Voted For Who(m?)
I really would. Let's turn this thread into a raving, slavering, hot sex board! ;)
LJ--you go first since you're the nastiest. (you know, "nasty" in a good way)
:eyeball: :corn: :eyeball:
That kind of deserves it's own thread, don't you think?
I forget the quote exactly, but Eleanor Roosevelt said something along the lines: Great minds discuss ideas, average minds discuss events, and small minds discuss people.
I hate to say it, but it seems like politics has moved towards the latter. C'mon people, quite perpetuating what the politicians are already doing, and perhaps things will improve to the way government was originally, about ideas.
Well I do have this picture of garnet and her boyfriend...
Well I do have this picture of garnet and her boyfriend...
Actually my boyfriend is pretty "well-hung" as they say... I've got no complaints in that department.
...wow. I used to think the Cellar was someplace I could go to discuss ideas and other people's thoughts about ANYTHING and not have people chastize and belittle others just for the hell of it.
Guess I was wrong.
I would bet that I am WAY younger than alot of people here and yet, am I the only one who thinks all this mudslinging between lumberjim and others is just fucking rediculous?
Try this children, take your fighting to PM's and stop wasting our time on the threads.
One more reason not to be a rhinochick--jesus. All that male-rhino weight on your back...though,it is a pretty incredible wang. Like Kurt Vonnegut said, "you never know who'll get one"--(a big wang, that is)
bullit, it wouldnt be funny in pm form. i dont know garnet from adam, i only pick on her because she picks back and it's funny. if i was to abuse a no-sense-of-humor-havin'-neckless-chinless-fireplug like you, it would be mean. with garnet, it;s like throwing rocks at a brick wall. no harm, no foul. now go back to lurking before i have to scold you again.
Somehow this level of discourse just seems a perfect mirror of this new dawn for America. Cheney's mandate.
I admire Kerry and I thank him for giving me a national voice for a while. This liberal isnt going away. Stand up, keep fighting. I'll resist our trek to the rapture and continue to encourage debate.
I believe that moderates and sanity will prevail. Even if it puts Wolf out of business ;)
Fully agree, Warch. :thumbsup:
(we now return you to, uh, "retarded")
not retarded...sick and tired and fed up, yes. Retarded--not so much.
jus' tryin' to distract ourselves from horrible reality.
precisely.
Huh. I wouldn't have guessed that you'd be so quick to bend over.
now go back to lurking before i have to scold you again.
If I'm a lurker It's because I actually have better things to do than sit on a blog ring all day long waiting for people to respond to my inane and pointless comments.. like you for example LJ.
Maybe you should stop spending all your free time here and go try to get a better job than selling used rust buckets.
I understand where you're coming from Briana... I want out... I'm f*cking scared shitless of the moral agenda shiotstorm that is brewing here now, I don't agree with them and I am more or less powerless to do anything about it right now, in two years when the house comes up for vote... bush will be reduced to a lame duck resident, and then 'we' might have a chance to do something about it. until then, ya know a nice vacation might be in order.. a working vacation that is.. personally I'm looking into Ireland or Australia (canada is still too close.. although I would get to keep more of my 'junk'...shipping costs and all that :) ) but! what I was kinda wondering, is that if any of you fine cellarites have any information on the cultures of these two countries ( I applied and was accepted for Irish citizenship in the mid90's.. and do to some VERY bad decisions on my part I didn't go) BUT! I was wondering what has changed (if anything) websites are handy and all, but it doesn't really get to the 'nitty-gritty' of how a counrty actually works.. ya know?
For anyone thinking of
moving to Canada , don't start buying those hockey tickets yet.
See if you qualify to emigrate there as a skilled worker.
Whoohoo! I'm right at the passing mark--67!!!
I'm sure Canada is a nice enough place, but I think I'll stay here. I love this country, and will continue to push for what I think is right. And I'm confident that the liberals will have their day in the sun again.
Cowhead, you are welcome to come to Australia. We have great weather, a friendly attitude, and a booming economy. Unfortunately from your view point, we currently have a right wing federal government, but with the exception of getting us involved in Iraq, they have done a pretty good job. They are nowhere near as extreme as GWB or his men.
If you come to Sydney you can expect warm, sunny, clear days 80% of the year. You can go surfing at one of our magnificent beaches after a day's work, or go sailing on the harbour. Brisbane is similar, but hotter. Melbourne is cold and wet during winter, but has a good social scene, and good restaurants.
You would have to be prepared to pay more for petrol than you do in the US. It's hovering around $1.10-$1.15 per litre, but this is still cheaper than many countries. Speaking of litres, we use the metric system (like Europe), but this won't take you long to get used to. At least we use dollars and cents, and we have nice colour coded money, so it is easy to tell the difference between a $5 and a $50.
Come on over. Bring your family. Bring your friends! :)
If I'm a lurker It's because I actually have better things to do than sit on a blog ring all day long waiting for people to respond to my inane and pointless comments.. like you for example LJ.
Maybe you should stop spending all your free time here and go try to get a better job than selling used rust buckets.
what job could be better than selling used rust buckets? there's certainly no profit in selling new ones. And as long as there are lemmings like yourself out there to fall for my lies and deceptions, my family will have a nice lifestyle. I'll be able to buy all the plaid sportcoats, cologne, and gold pinky rings i need, and blow all the extra cash up my nose. hey, know anyone that needs a quality preowned automobile? cheap? all of my cars are one owner, all highway miles, little old lady from pasadena cars. trust me. schmuck.
I've often thought of moving to Australia, but they have the toughest immigration laws I've ever seen. Someone told me you must prove that you can do a job that nobody else in Australia can do in order to get a work visa.
I've often thought of moving to Australia, but they have the toughest immigration laws I've ever seen. Someone told me you must prove that you can do a job that nobody else in Australia can do in order to get a work visa.
That's not entirely true. It depends on your country of origin. The tough rules are meant to keep out an avalanche of people from third world countries. People from North America, Britain and western Europe have an easier time getting in. As long as you meet the education and work experience requirements, it is usually not too hard. It also depends on whether you want a simple work visa, or to emigrate. The latter is much tougher than the former.
People from North America, Britain and western Europe have an easier time getting in.
Because if you're white, you're all right! :thumbsup:
;)
I'm a very capable computer network engineer. I was once offered a tempting computer science teaching position by an Australian school that had a campus in Vietnam. RMIT - Royal Melbourne Institute of Technology.
But the tough part is I have a wife who would be with me and she actually is from a third-world nation. I'd probaby just want a work Visa, but if things worked out, I'd probably want to stick around.
Because if you're white, you're all right! :thumbsup:
;)
Now Syc, that is *not* fair. I did not say that we only take Caucasians. We actually have a large intake of third world immigrants every year. I think per capita, Australia takes more than any other country. We have a very multicultural society. In my suburb we now have hundreds of people from Africa - places like Nigeria and Somalia. The only problem I have with these people is that the government brings them in on compassionate grounds, and then just dumps them in the community with little or no support. Some of them spend years on welfare without finding a job. It's not their fault, it is the government not following through on a commitment. There is nothing wrong with their skin colour!
But the tough part is I have a wife who would be with me and she actually is from a third-world nation. I'd probaby just want a work Visa, but if things worked out, I'd probably want to stick around.
Radar you sound ideal. Your wife would be welcome, I'm sure. Come to Sydney, though - Melbourne is too wet. ;)
Now Syc, that is *not* fair. I did not say that we only take Caucasians. We actually have a large intake of third world immigrants every year. I think per capita, Australia takes more than any other country. We have a very multicultural society. In my suburb we now have hundreds of people from Africa - places like Nigeria and Somalia. The only problem I have with these people is that the government brings them in on compassionate grounds, and then just dumps them in the community with little or no support. Some of them spend years on welfare without finding a job. It's not their fault, it is the government not following through on a commitment. There is nothing wrong with their skin colour!
Dude, I was totally fucking with you. :)
Dude, I was totally fucking with you. :)
Well, I wasn't sure, but many people do believe what you said. We had an immigration policy in the 50's and 60's that was known as the White Australia Policy. We've gone almost completely in the other direction since then, but there are people who think it still operates.
I've always told people that if they're not happy with the politics of this country, feel free to go somewhere else. Canada is a good choice but you better start now, the
process takes a while and it'd be better for the rest of us if you were gone by the next election so we don't have to put up with all your whining again. Don't let the door hit you in the ass! ;)
Re-elected Bush. Gains in the Senate. Gains in the House. Gains in governors races, state assemblies, and local elections.
This is a serious question: in light of the fact that the progressive movement staged a very effective get out the vote campaign, had access to massive amounts of money, by most accounts won the debates, did everything "right" in the election, why do you think they lost this election in such spectacular fashion? Is it a process failure (somehow didn't manage to communicate their issues) or an ideology failure (most people know their issues and disagree)?
-sm
The reason the Left failed is real, real simple. The people who enjoy the blessings of Liberalism don't appreciate them, and are unwilling to fight for them. Until the Right does something *so outrageous* that it is undeniable that fascism is underway, all of us tree-hugging, dope-smoking, laid-back, peace and loveniks are just going to keep playing Nintendo and typing on these online forums.
I wish that the Right would just cut to the chase and declare non-Christian religions to be a potential terroristic threat and outlaw them. Then, we could get right to the Civil War without all the mucking around and pretending that we have rights.
Well, I'm not going to Canada...I'm undereducated and I don't speak French.
what job could be better than selling used rust buckets? there's certainly no profit in selling new ones. And as long as there are lemmings like yourself out there to fall for my lies and deceptions, my family will have a nice lifestyle. I'll be able to buy all the plaid sportcoats, cologne, and gold pinky rings i need, and blow all the extra cash up my nose. hey, know anyone that needs a quality preowned automobile? cheap? all of my cars are one owner, all highway miles, little old lady from pasadena cars. trust me. schmuck.
Ha, that's why I own a 2004 Honda Civic. Cause it's gonna outlast any POS you sell. And I'm not Jewish, so you wasted a perfectly good schmuck on me.
thanks bluesdave, if it comes down to it I hope to buy you a beer watching some surfers. heh broke my knee in an old skateboarding accident.. so not so much (respect the art though).. thankls (and from here I ought to go to another thread... I'm an american and once proud to be one... now? no. and that's sad... this is NOT again NOT my government. and NO I will NOT take up arms against my 'brothers' (long story))
I wouldn't suggest living in Sydney to anyone :p
RMIT however rocks and skilled immigration isn't hard at all. Their computer system however is a running joke, massively over budget and mostly utterly incapable of doing it's job so you'd have plenty of work. Gun laws are a touch tougher than you're used to over there though.
what I meant to say was "thank you Bluesdave" for answering that question, I have a couple more of them for you though....
1.) what's the exchange rate
2.) do they like fairly 'rockin' guitar player (loud rythmic)
3.) do I 'AVE to drink fosters? (bleargh! tastes like like.. bud.. but somehow worse)
4.) what sort of diet (other than seafood) is 'regional' (never heard of australian cuisine) AND NO 'shrimp on the bar-bee jokes need apply :)) (too easy!) crock? (good eats by the by)
5.) I don't care if they support the war, as an american do you think I would be shunned by that alone? (f*ck I'd be an ex-patriot! that's gotta count for something!)
6.) does the toilet water really go the 'other' direction? Counterclockwise?
I wish that the Right would just cut to the chase and declare non-Christian religions to be a potential terroristic threat and outlaw them. Then, we could get right to the Civil War without all the mucking around and pretending that we have rights.
Well, he's already said that athiests aren't really citizens so we're on the way.
I hate to tell all of you but,........
http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=domesticNews&storyID=6704292
You'll have to stand in line with the rest of the refugees. Hope you like snow and salted fish.
-Walrus
That was his dad.
You say that as if there is a difference.
There's a huge difference. W has been very open to people of no faith.
There's a huge difference. W has been very open to people of no faith.
Being open is not nearly equal to the money he sinks in his faith at my expense.
Bush also beat Kerry among idiots.
What are you gonna do when you've got wingnut Bishops openly advocating Kerry's excommunication, and saying that voting for him is a sin? Even when the Pope disagrees?
Cowhead use your Irish cizitenship (you got an Irish grannie right??)..go live in Dublin, weather sucks the people are nice..I miss home..I'd move back but I have too many ties where I am living now
Not his faith, all faiths.
Bush beat Kerry amongst Catholics
From
Positive Atheism
(Emphasis and italics added)
"
Religious freedom and tolerance is a protected right. I am committed to the First Amendment principles of religious freedom, tolerance, and diversity. Whether Mormon, Methodist, Jewish, or Muslim, Americans should be able to participate in their constitutional free exercise of religion. I do not think witchcraft is a religion, and I do not think it is in any way appropriate for the U.S. military to promote it.
-- George W. Bush, second remark, October 15, 2000, Web, White & Blue 2000, Rolling Cyber Debate question:
"With religious diversity increasing, what are your thoughts on the protection of religious freedom and the separation of church and state? Should religions like Wicca be banned from recognition by the military, as some legislators suggest?" Bush honors diversity, but only within certain bounds, saying nothing in favor of one's Constitutional right to freedom from religion (he's against it: see below) and speaking out once again against Americans' right to practice the Wiccan religion with the same freedoms enjoyed by those who practice Bush's own religion of Evangelical Christianity.
Notice how Bush does away with the Wiccan's right to religious liberty by redefining Wicca as not a religion and further denigrating it with the term witchcraft. In the same way, atheism, that is, the freedom from government-imposed or government-sponsored religious intrusion, being not itself a bona fide religion, is twisted by Bush to become a viewpoint or practice or right that is not covered under the First Amendment guarantee of religious Liberty. (To be fair and honest, Bush's opponent, Al Gore, slyly answered every other element of the same question, but silently passed over the part about Wicca.)"
How's Melbourne? I might like it there.
I'm glad we have clarified the semantics from "his faith" down to "everyone except Wiccans in the military".
Because I believe this election was lost by over-reaching, self-indulgent attacks causing the base to react in kind.
I'm glad we have clarified the semantics from "his faith" down to "everyone except Wiccans in the military".
I believe that the two are inextricably linked. I don't believe that he is capable of seperating his decision making skills from his revelatory dependency.
Because I believe this election was lost by over-reaching, self-indulgent attacks causing the base to react in kind.
I won't disagree with that.
Well, be part of the solution. W just noted in his press conference that all Americans of any faith or of no faith are equally American.
If you're scared, get a dog.
Well, be part of the solution. W just noted in his press conference that all Americans of any faith or of no faith are equally American.
I don't have TV, sorry. Is there a webcast?
And I am part of the solution. I just haven't had the opportunity to gripe about Kerry yet. :)
I'm an equal opportunity pessimist.
Edit:
I was able to generate a link to the video of the speech, but I can't get it to save from the link.
Herewhat I meant to say was "thank you Bluesdave" for answering that question, I have a couple more of them for you though....
1.) what's the exchange rate
2.) do they like fairly 'rockin' guitar player (loud rythmic)
3.) do I 'AVE to drink fosters? (bleargh! tastes like like.. bud.. but somehow worse)
4.) what sort of diet (other than seafood) is 'regional' (never heard of australian cuisine) AND NO 'shrimp on the bar-bee jokes need apply :)) (too easy!) crock? (good eats by the by)
5.) I don't care if they support the war, as an american do you think I would be shunned by that alone? (f*ck I'd be an ex-patriot! that's gotta count for something!)
6.) does the toilet water really go the 'other' direction? Counterclockwise?
1. 75 cents US/Aussie which means that your dollars are worth approx 25% more down here.
2. I'm sure there are plenty of good rock bands down here - I'm into Jazz and Blues, unfortunately, so I'm not up on the rock scene. Jag probably knows some.
3. There's a wide range of beers available, don't you worry about that! We make the best wine in the world, too (that's official)!
4. Well seafood
is very popular, and we have the best seafood in the world, but we also have good red meats, pork, chicken etc. You can also buy meat like kangaroo and buffalo in some supermarkets. I know there are restaurants serving crocodile, but I don't know if you can buy the meat itself anywhere.
6. Yes, but this is actually quite a difficult experiment to set up correctly. Generally, toilets and sinks (basins), are too small to show the effect reliably. Water can go in either direction depending on the design. BTW, it is clockwise in the southern hemisphere and counter clockwise in the north.
How's Melbourne? I might like it there.
Melbourne is cold and wet. It has large, straight roads laid out in a grid (because the city was designed from day one), and has a good transport system - trams and trains. Melbourne is cold and wet. It also has good restaurants, and supposedly a better social life (debatable). Melbourne is cold and wet. The people are more conservative, and withdrawn. Melbourne is cold and wet.
Sydney on the other hand, is friendly, bright and breezy. We love outdoor activities, enjoying life, and the sun shines 80% plus days of the year. Sydney people are friendly. Our road system sucks because Sydney was never designed - it just grew. Our transport system is having some troubles at the moment - mainly the trains, which can be a little unreliable. Our buses and ferries are good though. Sydney is a sunny, bright, friendly, and happy place.
Melbourne is cold and wet. :p
I was waiting for a
transcript
Relevant section:
QUESTION: Mr. President, your victory at the polls came about in part because of strong support from people of faith, in particular Christian evangelicals and Pentecostals and others. And Senator Kerry drew some of his strongest support from those who do not attend religious services.
What do you make of this religious divide, it seems, becoming a political divide in this country? And what do you say to those who are concerned about the role of a faith they do not share in public life and in your policies?
BUSH: Yes. My answer to people is, I will be your president regardless of your faith, and I don't expect you to agree with me, necessarily, on religion. As a matter of fact, no president should ever try to impose religion on our society.
The great tradition of America is one where people can worship the way they want to worship. And if they choose not to worship, they're just as patriotic as your neighbor. That is an essential part of why we are a great nation.
And I am glad people of faith voted in this election. I am glad -- I appreciate all people who voted.
And I don't think you ought to read anything into the politics, the moment, about whether or not this nation will become a divided nation over religion. I think the great thing that unites us is the fact you can worship freely if you choose, and if you -- you don't have to worship. And if you're a Jew or a Christian or a Muslim, you're equally American.
That is such a wonderful aspect of our society. And it is strong today and it'll be strong tomorrow.
When they do right, you must notice them doing it.
I was waiting for a transcript
Relevant section:
When they do right, you must notice them doing it.
Well, he has spoken well. Let's see if he delivers.
Plan to leave the U.S.?
Here are the options. The work "bleak" springs to mind.
Does no one besides me find it a bit arrogant that W presumes to draw the line at accepting religions that *he* finds acceptable? Or did I miss the part in the Constitution that said "freedom of religion as determined by the sitting President"? If Wicca, for example, is not specifically included in the Army Chaplin's handbook as an "official" religion, and therefore to be allowed, you can bet your sweet ass it will be *disallowed*, and therefore suppressed.
His dismissive attitude toward Wiccans (and any other path not specifically included in his rather small list, by association) is a fine illustration of his overall attitudes towards Americans. (Not a quote, but might as well be) "If you aren't a big enough or rich enough group, fuck off. You have no benefit for me or my ilk to gain from you."
Face it folks...you are entitled to as much equality and as many rights as you can afford to pay for, and not a bit more. If you have the bad judgement to follow an obscure religious path, or the bad fortune to be impoverished, old, sick or handicapped, you really shouldn't be in a healthy society anyway.
Ha, that's why I own a 2004 Honda Civic. Cause it's gonna outlast any POS you sell. And I'm not Jewish, so you wasted a perfectly good schmuck on me.
well, i guess you told me.
note to self:
never argue with bullit. he's scary smart.
Note to self, LJ is also scary smart. Any arguments with him will get nowhere.
If Wicca, for example, is not specifically included in the Army Chaplin's handbook as an "official" religion, and therefore to be allowed, you can bet your sweet ass it will be *disallowed*, and therefore suppressed.
i refuse to get into an argument about GWB's views on the issue, but to clarify - the military chaplaincy recognizes anyone's right to worship anything they want. the difficulty and some of the conflict stems from the military's inability to provide a chaplain for every faith group. a base only has a certain number of billets for chaplains and they are filled with, generally - 1 catholic priest and a couple protestants of various denominations, and if it is a very large base they may have a rabbi, and on rare occassions an imam.
LDS, orthodox, JW's, etc... are assisted in finding a like group in the local community or if there is a large enough group they will be provided a spot on base.
part of the reason that chaplains only fall into the basic categories of catholic, protestant, jewish, muslim, (and a few eastern orthodox) is primarily funding. if there are only X amount of slots allowed then it makes sense to fill them with an individual that can minister to the greatest number with a common faith. the second is educational/financial. chaplains are officers due to their educational background. the chaplaincy argued for years before admitting muslim chaplains because a catholic priest or Lutheran minister must spend years in formal education before entering the chaplaincy - to make sure that everyone was treated the same there was a requirement of an Master's of Divinity for any chaplain candidate - even for denominations that don't require one for ordination.
anyway - that is a little insight into the military chaplaincy and it's workings. i can assure you that a wiccan group (sorry i don't know the right terminology) has the right to worship even in the military. the only minority group that i am aware of having their requests rejected was a group of "satanists" (read drunken 19 y.o. jackasses that weren't practicing anything other than ruffling feathers) demanded that they be allowed to use the cross from the catholic service as part of their ceremony. the request was rejected with the caveat that if they could show proof of some organized group of likeminded individuals on base that a cross would be purchased specifically for their meetings in the next budget go 'round.
Minor point: JW's (Jehovah's Witnesses) would be unlikely to be found serving in the military. Their faith forbids it and in the event of a draft, most would likely be given CO status.
i've seen 'em. sometimes when kids are away from home and scared from being out of their element they convert to ideas that match their current feelings.
anyway - that is a little insight into the military chaplaincy and it's workings. i can assure you that a wiccan group (sorry i don't know the right terminology) has the right to worship even in the military.
You are correct that the practice is currently allowed, and perhaps I misspoke regarding a given practice being disallowed. However, it is pretty certain that no Wiccan group will be allowed to participate in the "Faith Based Initiative" which spawned the Bush quote about Wicca not being a religion.
The fact remains that, despite Constitutional assurances to the contrary, there is a pervasive and increasingly organized effort to make this a Christian Nation...you know...one nation, under God?
Those of us who aren't Jehovah's sheep are probably not going to like it if this country becomes a Christian theocracy. Theocracies in general have historically lacked tolerance and equality.
*belts out into song*
"The INQUISI-I-ITION....what a show!
The INQUISI-I-ITION....here we go!
We know you're wishin'....that we'd go awa-a-ay...
So come on you Muslims and you Jews!
We've got big news for all of youse!
We're gonna change your point of views...toda-a-ay...
Cuz the INQUISITION's here and it's here...to...sta-a-a-ay!!"
[SIZE=1]*hats off to Mel Brooks*[/SIZE]
Let's face it...you can't Torquemada *anything*!
No one expects the Spanish Inquisition!
However, it is pretty certain that no Wiccan group will be allowed to participate in the "Faith Based Initiative" which spawned the Bush quote about Wicca not being a religion.
It's not that they aren't allowed to participate, it's that they aren't applying.
Even large pagan organizations, including Pagan Pride groups, Local interfaith networks, even really big covens, like Assembly of the Sacred Wheel can't get it together long enough to decide on a project, get people together to do it, and keep doing it ... The largest pagan organization in Philly has been doing canned food drives for years. A canned or shelf-stable food item has been the admission fee to their events for as long as they have been in existence. That's the best they can manage. And they aren't generating a lot of canned goods. Pagans are
great about talking about stuff. They come up very, very short on doing anything about it.
El, I didn't expect "Christians are out to get me" paranoia from you, bud.
Sydney sounds like L.A. and Melbourne sounds like San Francisco or Seattle. For some reason I get the feeling that Melbourne might be cold and wet. I wonder why? hmmmmmm
I must admit to a certain amount of paranoia when staring down the barrel of a growing religious Right. Their illogical, divisive rhetoric, now targeted mainly at gays and those seeking abortions, aforementioned rhetoric being based upon their religous tenets, gives me pause.
So...granted that no group with which I am affiliated has applied. Are you aware of any who have at all? And where are such details kept available?
Sydney is like a sunny San Francisco. It's a really fun and interesting city.
Tom DeLay's statement pretty much sums up the source of my paranoia:
"We're going to be able to lead this country in the direction we've been dreaming of for years. . . . We're going to put God back into the public square."
I'm pretty sure that the God to which he refers is not going to be Cerrunos... :vikingsmi :
San Francisco has a very good public transport system, but also most everything is within walking distance. You can walk to a market, or a cafe, etc. I've always wanted to live in a city where I wouldn't need to own a car. I'd still own one, but I wouldn't use it often.
San Francisco is also VERY expensive. Is Sydney like that?
I must admit to a certain amount of paranoia when staring down the barrel of a growing religious Right. Their illogical, divisive rhetoric, now targeted mainly at gays and those seeking abortions, aforementioned rhetoric being based upon their religous tenets, gives me pause.
Patrick, given my real world experiences with the religous right, I think that anyone should be concerned about them getting into a position of power or having influence with someone in a position of power (see my comments in the "Bushland" thread, if you haven't already). :eyebrow:
Melbourne can be damp on occasion but generally the weather is nice, spring is unpredictable, autumn and early summer are beautiful, summer is often scorching, winter can be damn but only goes down to 5-10 degrees. Melbourne isn't that small, the train network is very good, the CBD itself is walking-size and crammed with fantastic little cafes and bars, nightlife is more spread into surrounding suburbs.
There is a palpable irony in a state founded on persecuted religious minorities fleeing England spawning the religious right of today. The thing that amuses me is that this really will be the government Americans deserve - placate the worst tendencies while dry-fucking the country into bankruptcy and global hatred - the public is too worried about Janet's tit and where the ten commandments should be in the courtroom to even notice. Perfect.
Jag,
I wish you would stop saying that we are all getting what we deserve. The vote was 51% to 49%. Hardly a landslide. One in two americans don't support the current ruling party.
One in two voting Americans. The combination of those who voted for Bush and those who chose not to vote is substantially larger than that.
Last I checked, a lot of people outside the US disliked our government, not our people...has that changed?
Still a majority. And people wonder why I dislike democracy. Think about it. It's the nation that loves to call itself democratic and now comes to embody all it's flaws - populism and fear-mongering trumping logic and reason, peversion by 'special interests', and legalized corruption.
As for the people vs government thing, I wouldn't expect so much leeway now you've given bush a clear mandate, as far as the rest of the world will be concerned Bush now clearly represents the wishes of the people.
One in two voting Americans. The combination of those who voted for Bush and those who chose not to vote is substantially larger than that.
The combination of those who voted for Kerry and those who chose not to vote is also larger than those who voted for Bush.
The combination of those who voted for Kerry and those who chose not to vote is also larger than those who voted for Bush.
Sssssh! You'll confuse the "massive national mandate" crowd.
[size=1](to steal from Atrios)[/size] What's this I hear about Bush and a man-date?
As for the people vs government thing, I wouldn't expect so much leeway now you've given bush a clear mandate, as far as the rest of the world will be concerned Bush now clearly represents the wishes of the people.
Then those people are ignorant. Myself and 55 million other Americans supported John Kerry and other candidates, not to mention the millions that didn't vote at all.
As for the people vs government thing, I wouldn't expect so much leeway now you've given bush a clear mandate, as far as the rest of the world will be concerned Bush now clearly represents the wishes of the people.
Now you're beginning to sound like a member of the Bush camp, Jag. 51% of the voters is NOT a clear mandate from the American people, especially when you consider how vehement the feelings are of those who oppose Bush. Look at all the anger that has been displayed on this board. If I were president with 49% of the electorate so strongly against me, I wouldn't call it a mandate. It is arrogant and misguided for Bush to do so.
San Francisco has a very good public transport system, but also most everything is within walking distance. You can walk to a market, or a cafe, etc. I've always wanted to live in a city where I wouldn't need to own a car. I'd still own one, but I wouldn't use it often.
San Francisco is also VERY expensive. Is Sydney like that?
If you live in the inner city (within 10kms of the CBD), you will find there are plenty of trains, buses and ferries. I live 30km out, but I only have to drive my car once a week to go down to the local shopping mall.
Sydney is expensive, and so is Melbourne. You'll find that prices in Australia are much higher than you are used to. I've already mentioned petrol (gas), but you'll also pay more for electrical items, and luxury goods. CDs are around $30. Food is cheap. Wine and beer are cheap. Rent (for apartments/houses) varies, but rents in Sydney are not considered high.
Ah but it'll be treated like a mandate, that's what matters. Get used to the word, it's going to be used at every new outrage, it's the new addition the political lexicon. Syc, in the most people are going to look at say 'last time was a fluke, an electoral oddity, the american people saw what he did for 4 years and then the majority of them that voted, voted for him'. End of story. *I* know the story is a touch more complex but that is the opinion I hear and to a degree, it's fair enough. The fact that tons still couldn't be stuffed getting off their fat asses to vote is irrelevent.
[size=1](to steal from Atrios)[/size] What's this I hear about Bush and a man-date?
From The Tonight Show Wednesday night: The only Republican without a mandate is Mary Cheney.
*I* know the story is a touch more complex but that is the opinion I hear and to a degree, it's fair enough. The fact that tons still couldn't be stuffed getting off their fat asses to vote is irrelevent.
A touch more complex? You're high. :)
I know what you're saying, Jag, but no election is as simple as the numbers. I offer the following examples:
--Jean-Marie Le Pen
--Russia
--Pakistan
--pretty much any Iraqi presidential election while Saddam Hussein was in power
This site should assist in your quests to relocate.
Well, then why are you? Go wrangle your nuts and whistle a merry tune. Your side won, isn't that enough for you? Now, you want the rest of us to be happy about it. That's asking a bit much, don't you think? Judging by the way you've hung around here gloating, I think you probably would have hung around being gloomy, as well, if your side had lost.
Amen sis. As I listen to the local conservative radio station, all they have been talking about since the day after the election is why Kerry lost and just plain old more Kerry bashing.
Dudes:
WHO THE MOTHERFUCK CARES ABOUT THE WHY?!?!?! Get out there and support his monkey ass already! Shit!
Is it 2008 already? :mad2: :mad2: :mad2: :mad: :mad: :mad:
'K...better now. :D
Just in case you're still in mourning ...
The Depressed Democrat's Recovery GuideJust in case you're still in mourning ...
The Depressed Democrat's Recovery Guide
Now that's some funny shit right there, I don't care who you are! :D