Now that Georgie has lost the Election...
I thought it would be nice to make some predictions about GW's future.
Now that God has unchosen him, he will probably get a little depressed. Inside 6 mos W will be plowing through so much cocaine he's gonna need a snowmobile to get around.
Griff--where did you hear this? We've been keeping track at work and it looks like georgie won! Please tell me he lost!
no matter which side you want it is still way to early to get cocky.
remember "DEWEY WINS"?
:) I wanted Badnarik. Check
Slates latest numbers. I'm mostly being a smart ass though.
i kinda figured you were yanking some chains, but there are some tightly wound spools in thte cellar today, so you never know.
All numbers are within the margin of error, so you might as well make a coin toss to decide who gets what? As for GWB, the only country in the world he would really be welcome in is Russia. I certainly wouldn't want to give him Carter's job of helping certify overseas elections, even though there would be a compelling irony there.
A lot of people, even many of those voting for him, believe that he only got his job due to his father's legacy, some powerful friends, and a socially conservative agenda. Outside of terror, I really don't think there is a lot of confidence in his competence in affairs of state, and his terror credentials stem largely from pulling the trigger on Iraq.
Let him go back to getting in one sweetheart deals with Texas millionaires.
A lot of people, even many of those voting for him, believe that he only got his job due to his father's legacy, some powerful friends, and a socially conservative agenda.
He got the job with votes. I won't argue popular v. electoral here, but all this shit about a 'stolen' election is so 2000. The trend right now seems to be for Bush.
BTW, I voted a straight ticket today for this first time in my life. It was for the Libertarian Party. Believe me, I hate a lot of shit about this country right now, too.
But hey, did you know Alaska may legalize marijuana? I'm tempted to go up there and build some greenhouses. My farm will be called 'Northern Lights', as will my product. The slogan will be 'The No Fuzz Buzz'.
Umm, these are all copyrighted by right of first reference. As of <i>now</i>. But probably actually for UT.
Kerry is projected to win PA (by MSNBC)...looks like Dubya wasted a whole lot of time coming here.
Griff, you're a jinxing motherfucker.
Bush looks like he has Florida in the bag, and the GOP is fighting tooth-and-nail for Ohio. If they get that, it's game set match. I have an ulcer big enough to hide a chicken in, and emigration would be tempting if there was anywhere safe to which to emigrate.
For me, any one is same because I still cannot get the USA visa and go to see you.
Just wait for Bush to come to you, Billy. :yelsick:
Now if you'll excuse me, I have war materiel to build.
For me, any one is same because I still cannot get the USA visa and go to see you.
I heard the Democrats plan to make it even harder for you. Well, hopefully in four years, but still... :mad:
Griff, buddy, you started on the Bushmills the minute you got home from the polls, didn't you?
Presidential Count continues.
I'm very much enjoying watching Dan Rather look increasingly uncomfortable and frustrated as Bush seems to be winning.
I got my real election return earlier tonight. One of my frequent callers to the nuthouse told me at around 2115 hrs.
Nut: So, you vote today?
Wolf: Yes, Nut (not his real name). I voted.
Nut: I voted for Kerry. You vote for Kerry?
Wolf: No, Nut. I voted for Bush.
Nut: That Bush, the imcunbemt (that's how he says it. He's illiterate and uses some unusual pronounciation), he's taking it. He won.
Wolf: Bush won, Nut?
Nut: Yeah.
Wolf: Okay, Nut. I'll let everybody know that I heard it from you first.
I find that I actually get fairly accurate current events reportage from many of my patients. Heck, I learned about the first WTC bombing from a patient, and I thought she was crazy at the time. I've trusted NutWire News ever since.
So, Wolf, we now see where you get your encyclopedic-type information. I hope you are more than ready to gear up to haul ass to where-ever the threat may be. I've no guns myself. You think you can defend your Phila 'burb? Good luck. you'll need it.
:rattat:
<b>Brianna</b>, I think <b>wolf</b> is just prepared to defend her home and person from those who would choose to do her harm. It is certainly a personal option to rely on the police to perform that duty. They usually just show for clean-up.
I sincerely doubt I will ever have to use my weapons defensively. I'm not that paranoid. Shooting is just something fun to do, and marksmanship (hitting a good shot at 100+ yards) is truly satisfying.
Let's just say I'm ready for The Day The Welfare Checks Don't Cash and leave it at that.
if this great nation of ours equipped people for real jobs we wouldn't need welfare checks--unless you were poisoned by CO, of course. Then we'd have to pay.
CAVEAT:
i'm feeling very nasty tonight. GRRrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
if this great nation of ours equipped people for real jobs we wouldn't need welfare checks--unless you were poisoned by CO, of course.
Brianna, believe me, with all the imperfections of capitalism, you're still much better off without "the right to work" :yeldead:
I heard the Democrats plan to make it even harder for you. Well, hopefully in four years, but still... :mad:
:mad2: If so, my USA graduate school dream would be crashed.
Given the crushing nature of this defeat (never mind Ohio -- even if Kerry pulls off a miracle, he'll have to deal with a reinforced-on-both-sides Republican Congress and a strong popular-vote bitchslap)...
...how do I tell my wife that I don't think I want to have kids in this New, Improved, 78%-More-War-And-Bibles Redder-Than-Ever America?
Pop her in the mouth and say, "Bitch, we ain't havin' no babies!"
I don't know if you were being rhetorical or not...if not, just be honest. What are her feelings on the outcome?
I'm in a deep post-election depression, but I'm at least half-serious, and how the next few years fall out will either reinforce that or lessen that. I can at least wait and see before I revise my decision -- it's not like I'm going to chop off my nuts and mail them to Dubya or anything.
She's nowhere near as politically-minded as I am.
Smart woman. Is she online?
More laws are made that affect the individual at state level, than at federal level. Massachusetts, where the R party is nearly a minor party, is only 5 hours north. Canada, the Europe of North America, is only another 4 hours after that. So if you really honestly believe that it will make a difference in your life, you can have the politics you want. It'll take some effort, but there it is.
Or if you realize at the end of the day that you will wind up putting your socks on first every morning, just like you have all along, you'll stay where you are and pop out a few youngsters. After all, by the time they're teenagers, you may decide that you were wrong all along.
I know I have; the politics I cared so hard about 10 years ago are not the same as what I think today.
...how do I tell my wife that I don't think I want to have kids in this New, Improved, 78%-More-War-And-Bibles Redder-Than-Ever America?
Nothing says "Baby? No way" like a quicky vasectomy.
She's online, but not into message boards -- SoulSeek and eBay are more her speed. Smart woman, indeed, as she understands the first law of message-board arguments (the famed Special Olympics analogy).
The Republicans have been given firm control over the nation. The Senate is all but filibuster-proof. The golden opportunity to replace Rehnquist is gone; instead, he and others will be replaced during this term by young, rubber-stamp conservatives who will redefine American law (federal, state and local) for generations.
Short of a scandal that makes Watergate look like a tea party, the Democratic Party is essentially toast. I expect more redistricting shenanigans designed to reinforce the Republican majority. Why not? DeLay's gambit worked exactly as intended. I expect Social Security, the deficit and the tax code to be a shambles by 2008, and frankly, I don't see any stars rising up out of the Democratic camp capable of rallying the troops.
It's the last definition of Catch-22: "They can do anything that we can't stop them from doing." Well, the left can't stop the right from doing whatever it wants now. Moving to Boston won't fix that.
On the other hand, all problems from here on out are 100% the Republicans' fault, and I don't see things getting better. We'll see whether things will get bad enough that even Republicans can see it by 2006.
Richlevy...time to start churning out the "Go ahead and trample on my rights...I wasn't using them anyway" bumper stickers.
On the other hand, all problems from here on out are 100% the Republicans' fault, and I don't see things getting better. We'll see whether things will get bad enough that even Republicans can see it by 2006.
1) No matter WHAT, the Republicans and talk radio will have more reasons than H&R Block why it's not their fault. It's Clinton's Fault, It's The Democrats' Fault, 9/11 Changed Everything[tm], There's A War Going On, choose your own or invent more.
2) They may see it, but they're weighing that against What Would Jeebus Do. When rational reasoning and religious faith collide, the results are not often pretty.
Pretty hard to believe. The strategy of misinformation and fear works.
Scrambling for positives: MN went for Kerry, last I heard 78% turnout. also evened up our state legislature that had tilted republican. Returned Sabo to the house. Even managed to pass about half of the levies on area ballots so kids can have music, art and phys ed back in their schools.
I hope people of all stripes will demand accountability for these past, and the next four years.
My extended family is in Minnesota and Wisconsin, so I'm relieved that they are blue.
I am so bitter this morning. As Happy says, the Republicans are now responsible for the country. I wouldn't call it a silver lining on a dark cloud. It's more like a lighter shade of grey on a dark cloud.
The Democrats need to steal a page from the Republican playbook and focus on one message for the next four years. That the Republicans control the House, the Senate, the White House, and the Supreme Court. The American people have shown that they are stupid. They need to be constantly reminded that the Republicans are in control of everything and deserve all the blame or credit for everything that happens from here on out. I expect it to be blame, but we will see. But the only way the American people will see it is if they are pounded over the head with it almost constantly for the next four years. "The Republicans got you into this situation. This is what they stand for."
Focus on the positives people!
Three very excellent things:
- no terrorism!!!!!
- no October surprise
- no legal battle for the outcome
One good thing:
- jobs report Friday supposed to be sunny
Cheer up, guys. In four years you will have Hilary :D Then I will definitely have to move again in search of politics I want :D
It's times like this I wish Australia didn't have such tough immigration laws.
It's times like this I wish Australia didn't have such tough immigration laws.
New Zeland has very decent immigration laws. Canada too, if you're prepared to live in Manitoba or so for a while... So there ;)
Focus on the positives people!
Three very excellent things:
- no terrorism!!!!!
I'm not worried about terrorists, I never really have been. I am much more worried about that religious retard who thinks that I am not a citizen because I have no religion.
Thanks, America.
While voting on small things such as taxes and moral issues, we're going to see another four years of a president that supports:
Phone tapping of American citizens without cause.
E-mail and internet tapping of American citizens without cause.
Detainment of American citizens without cause, withouth trial, indefinately.
Restrictions on what you may say in opposition to your government.
Restrictions on how you may express your dislike of your government.
Restrictions on where you may express your dislike of your government.
Further implementations of religious organizations into the federal government that will control how funding is distributed.
Restriction of contracts between people based on their sexual preferences.
Increased support for the WTO, an organization that...
...trumps all local laws.
...trumps all state laws.
...triumps all federal laws.
...trumps the US constitution.
...is composed of an unelected board of people.
...is composed of a board of people whose identities we aren't permitted to know.
...is composed of a board who makes decisions we aren't permitted to read ahead of time or after they are implemented.
Land of the free, my ass. Thanks, America, for voting with your emotions on the petty shit the commercials on TV told you to be concerned with instead of the important stuff. You're going to get the president you deserve.
Think it's time to move back to England.
Fox news just said, and I quote...
"The red states just got redder."
Indeed.
While voting on small things such as taxes and moral issues, we're going to see another four years of a president that supports: (snip)
Yeah, but if they'd voted for the other guy, two HOMOS might get married someday, and that trumps everything else, right?
Fox news just said, and I quote...
"The red states just got redder."
Flickering red flames, I hope. Where's General Sherman when we need him?
Except that there are millions of non-wingnut people trapped in Red Country, and it'd be a helluva job to airlift them all out first.
Think it's time to move back to England.
No, it's time to dig in and defend what's yours.
Everyone will have their own explanation of what happened, here's mine:
Fahrenheit 9/11 and the ugly 529s were more effective at motivating the opposition than at convincing anyone to change their minds.
move the fuck on already dot org.
Yeah, but if they'd voted for the other guy, two HOMOS might get married someday, and that trumps everything else, right?
Gay WOLF Marriage (Quicktime, ~11.5Mb)
That's exactly what I'll be doing by leaving the United States. Protecting what's mine. You know, I don't have alot, I have about 2 carloads of possesions so what's mine is my family.
I have a 16 year old son who graduates in 3 years, when there will most likely be a draft. He'll be carted off to Iraq with other people's children, with a considerable percentage in favor of being maimed or killed, and an even higher percentage that he won't be given the correct amount of training and/or protection for the job he's tasked to perform. He'll make so little that he'll qualify for food stamps.
And all for what? To protect this guy's flawed policies and ego? I don't think so. "Defending America" does NOT equal being in Iraq.
if this great nation of ours equipped people for real jobs we wouldn't need welfare checks--unless you were poisoned by CO, of course. Then we'd have to pay.
CAVEAT:
i'm feeling very nasty tonight. GRRrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
Well, thanks, Brianna. Nothing like kicking a dog when its down, hmmm? All the people on this board who like to jump all over me will be happy to hear that I'm pretty depressed right now. It's going to be a very grim 4 years for Americans who need help getting back on their feet or are permanently disabled. You're upset because you had to go back to work. I'm upset because I CAN'T.
That's exactly what I'll be doing by leaving the United States.
My point was that there is more to being an American than just you and I. There is us. By leaving, you take one more voice away from what was actually entrusted to us by our founding fathers. The power to exercise the ultimate vote.
The president is our servant, he is there to organize and administrate, nothing else. Polticians have forgotten that. If they keep pushing, Americans are going to be forced to get Jeffersonian.
Well, thanks, Brianna. Nothing like kicking a dog when its down, hmmm? All the people on this board who like to jump all over me will be happy to hear that I'm pretty depressed right now. It's going to be a very grim 4 years for Americans who need help getting back on their feet or are permanently disabled. You're upset because you had to go back to work. I'm upset because I CAN'T.
No, didn't HAVE to--CHOSE to. Working is essential to an individuals sense of well-being and feeling of contributing to the greater good. I chose to go back. I was completely bored and useless sitting at home and after three months of rehab--which I also chose--I went back voluntarily. My situation is very complex and persists in the courts. My only complaint is that the hospital I work for is already pushing the limits of the agreement of my return to work. As in 12 hour shifts. THAT's where my problem is. It's going to be a grim 4 years for every American. Very grim. All those who voted bush get what they deserve. He's an arrogant, smarmy, sniveling moron. Congratulations, America! You've proven yourself UNWORTHY.
The president is our servant, .
Bush is NOBODY's servant. He's an arrogant rich kid with connections thanks to daddy. I can't believe you think he's our "servant"--even HE'd choke on that one. If anything he's cheney's bitch.
Bush is NOBODY's servant. He's an arrogant rich kid with connections thanks to daddy. I can't believe you think he's our "servant"--even HE'd choke on that one. If anything he's cheney's bitch.
I said that the president, and more generally all politicians, are our servants. The fact that they no longer chose, and we allow them, to fullfil their roles properly doesn't change that.
fuck
shit
damn
piss
hell
i am SO dissapointed in my fellow assmericans.
the stupid are taking over the world. they breed faster. like retarded rabbits.
crap.
No, didn't HAVE to--CHOSE to. Working is essential to an individuals sense of well-being and feeling of contributing to the greater good. I chose to go back.
Tell me about it. I feel so damn useless and right now, scared.
My situation is very complex and persists in the courts.
So is and does mine. The ability to sit alone in my room and type mis-spelled comments to a bunch of people I'll never meet does not = functional.
My only complaint is that the hospital I work for is already pushing the limits of the agreement of my return to work. As in 12 hour shifts. THAT's where my problem is.
I know a little about your situation, Brianna, and that's just WRONG on their part. They are really pushing you to over extend yourself. Does your workplace have EAP or something similar where you could go in to get some arbitration of some sort?
I agree with you, Bush is Cheney's bitch. And Cheney is Halliburten's handmaiden. The American people figure nowhere into the equation except that through stupidity and complacense, they voted for this to go on 4 more years.
It's times like this I wish Australia didn't have such tough immigration laws.
So do we, radar. Can you go join the wife in the workers paradise?
My point was that there is more to being an American than just you and I. There is us. By leaving, you take one more voice away from what was actually entrusted to us by our founding fathers. The power to exercise the ultimate vote.
The president is our servant, he is there to organize and administrate, nothing else. Polticians have forgotten that. If they keep pushing, Americans are going to be forced to get Jeffersonian.
Let's just speculate for a moment on "getting Jeffersonian". You're talking a revolution. Civil War. Something the Armed Forces of this country are sworn to protect us against.
The majority of the people of this country think that Bush has done a good job, enough to elect not just him for 4 more years, but also people who think like him, and back his ideas up. Governors. Senators. Representatives. More than half the people in this country think that he has done, is doing, and/or will do a better job than "the other guy" would.
This country of sheep is not going to get "Jeffersonian". It isn't only the politicians who forgot who's supposed to run the store....
fuck
shit
damn
piss
hell
i am SO dissapointed in my fellow assmericans.
the stupid are taking over the world. they breed faster. like retarded rabbits.
crap.
Thank you for expressing my thoughts........I'm not beyond the 1 word vocabulary yet this morning :mad: .................FU@#.
Mari--I'm sorry I took a pot-shot at you earlier--it wasn't nice. I'm stressed and heartsick and I even took on the legendary Jag last night as my faith in this country completely collapsed. When bushieboy gives his acceptance speech I hope he remembers that half of us DON'T want this stupid, smarmy, rich-kid, who woulda-shoulda-coulda-flunked-out-of-Yale. course, he's not that self-aware. He's an island for chrissakes.
I know. -5 for poor sentance structure.
Let's just speculate for a moment on "getting Jeffersonian". You're talking a revolution. Civil War. Something the Armed Forces of this country are sworn to protect us against.
The majority of the people of this country think that Bush has done a good job, enough to elect not just him for 4 more years, but also people who think like him, and back his ideas up. Governors. Senators. Representatives. More than half the people in this country think that he has done, is doing, and/or will do a better job than "the other guy" would.
This country of sheep is not going to get "Jeffersonian". It isn't only the politicians who forgot who's supposed to run the store....
It wasn't people that were in the majority who started this experiment.
Has everybody vented their drama yet?
I suppose that all of you thought that if Kerry won that Osama would have sent another video tape offering peace and friendship throughout the world, the sky would be bluer than blue (in honor of the democratic victory) and everybody would find a nice, shiny, new hybrid card in the driveway as a thank you gift for being such a good electorate.
It's the presidency. We do this every four years. The people chose. It's over. The country has survived this for the last 228 years. With the exception of a little uprising that got surprised in the mid-19th century, we've been revolution free, unlike MOST OF THE OTHER COUNTRIES IN THE WORLD.
Let it go, and get on with your lives.
Thank you.
I'm not done with my drama yet.
:bitching:
Legendary? I feel all warm and mythical.
Won't survive that long on this path. If efforts aren't made to rein in the deficit (which I don't see bush doing) then the collapse of fiat currency will happen well within my lifetime if not the lifetime of the vast majority of people here.
Has everybody vented their drama yet?
I suppose that all of you thought that if Kerry won that Osama would have sent another video tape offering peace and friendship throughout the world, the sky would be bluer than blue (in honor of the democratic victory) and everybody would find a nice, shiny, new hybrid card in the driveway as a thank you gift for being such a good electorate.
It's the presidency. We do this every four years. The people chose. It's over. The country has survived this for the last 228 years. With the exception of a little uprising that got surprised in the mid-19th century, we've been revolution free, unlike MOST OF THE OTHER COUNTRIES IN THE WORLD.
Let it go, and get on with your lives.
Thank you.
I'm having fun actually. I'm waiting for ticket numbers and departure times.
I'm not leaving--I'm getting dual citizenship so when I travel to the UK I won't be shot!---Oh, am leaving for England, Ireland and Wales June 12, 2005 with some kids from Wilmington college (southwest Ohio) "Origins of Religions" tour. I'll bet I'm not the only "canadian" in the bunch, eh?
Has everybody vented their drama yet?
Not quite.
Let it go, and get on with your lives.
Thank you.
Easy for you to say. You're new tagline says it all. "My guy won." Well, your guy winning will make it just that much more difficult for me to get on with my life, and I'm not alone. There are many, many more Americans like me - decent people who just are down on their luck, and the Bush/Republican domestic policy is to merely discard us. I hope you're prepared to be personally accountable for the outcomes of the next 4 years since "your guy won." :greenface
Has everybody vented their drama yet?
I haven't even started.
I suppose that all of you thought that if Kerry won that Osama would have sent another video tape offering peace and friendship throughout the world, the sky would be bluer than blue (in honor of the democratic victory) and everybody would find a nice, shiny, new hybrid card in the driveway as a thank you gift for being such a good electorate.
Hardly. I just hoped for something different than we've had. Maybe some progress.
It's the presidency. We do this every four years. The people chose. It's over. The country has survived this for the last 228 years. With the exception of a little uprising that got surprised in the mid-19th century, we've been revolution free, unlike MOST OF THE OTHER COUNTRIES IN THE WORLD.
I think it's interesting you consider the civil war a "little uprising".
Let it go, and get on with your lives.
Thank you.
I completely and fully plan on it. You're welcome.
It wasn't people that were in the majority who started this experiment.
But it was people who had access to roughly the same level of weapon technology as their opposition. Joe Average is just SLIGHTLY outgunned when compared to our armed forces and law enforcement, and that's leaving out the heavy stuff.
Has everybody vented their drama yet?
I suppose that all of you thought that if Kerry won that Osama would have sent another video tape offering peace and friendship throughout the world, the sky would be bluer than blue (in honor of the democratic victory) and everybody would find a nice, shiny, new hybrid card in the driveway as a thank you gift for being such a good electorate.
It's the presidency. We do this every four years. The people chose. It's over. The country has survived this for the last 228 years. With the exception of a little uprising that got surprised in the mid-19th century, we've been revolution free, unlike MOST OF THE OTHER COUNTRIES IN THE WORLD.
Let it go, and get on with your lives.
Thank you.
If you voted for Bush, then your guy won. So of course you don't feel a need to 'vent drama'. But you're right. This happens every four years. All this means is that we are DEFINITELY going to be able to get rid of Bush. So all we have to worry about is Bush and Co. trying so pull some crap about allowing him a third term when he finds his War on Terror isn't quite over in 2008.
So do we, radar. Can you go join the wife in the workers paradise?
Who is "we?" You and the mouse in your pocket?
:)
But it was people who had access to roughly the same level of weapon technology as their opposition. Joe Average is just SLIGHTLY outgunned when compared to our armed forces and law enforcement, and that's leaving out the heavy stuff.
You're forgetting three things:
1) do you think that all members of the armed forces are happy with the situation?
2) how many members of the armed forces do you think are willing to actually fire on US citizens?
3) do you think enough of the weapons in this country are accouted for that the military is willing to mount such an offensive in the first place?
Who is "we?" You and the mouse in your pocket?
:)
shhhhh. I'm trying to encourage radar to leave the country.
You're forgetting three things:
1) do you think that all members of the armed forces are happy with the situation?
2) how many members of the armed forces do you think are willing to actually fire on US citizens?
3) do you think enough of the weapons in this country are accouted for that the military is willing to mount such an offensive in the first place?
1) No, but they _do_ know how to follow orders, particularly when they feel that right is on their side. When citizens are engaging in armed insurrection against the government, they won't get much sympathy.
2) If the citizens are armed and ready to fire on them, enough. You wanna go first?
3) I have no idea what you mean by that. The armed forces have FAR superior weaponry to anything to which the general public has access.
Or are there liberal armories with assault weapons, attack helicopters and such that I haven't been told about yet?
If you believe there will be a draft, and you voted on that basis, you are a loser, an idiot, and a moron, and I can prove it to within several significant digits.
Or are there liberal armories with assault weapons, attack helicopters and such that I haven't been told about yet?
Where the hell is slang when I need him... :)
fuck
shit
damn
piss
hell
i am SO dissapointed in my fellow assmericans.
the stupid are taking over the world. they breed faster. like retarded rabbits.
crap.
Okay, I REALLY need someone to explain to me (apparently because I'm stupid) why someone who voted for Bush is a retarted rabbit.
I am simply not grasping the source of all the vitrolic rage coming from the blue camp today.
51% of the American people chose what they wanted. So that means we're getting what we WANT, not what we 'deserve'. More voters came to the polls this year than did any other year since Kennedy was elected in 1960. This is the first year that the president won both the popular vote as well as the Electoral college.
You may not be happy with what happened last night. You may be plotting to have Ohio surgically removed from the union. You may even be thinking about moving to Canada (mapquest has good directions....have at it). But why does a difference in opinion make someone stupid?
If you didn't vote, you have no right to open your mouth. (But I think most of you did - unfortunately, I deal with the "I didn't vote , but Kerry should have won" population at the office.)
I didn't vote on that basis, UT. It IS a consideration. Prove it. And I don't believe I am an idiot, loser or moron. Other people are, though. Nyah!
Not quite.
Easy for you to say. You're new tagline says it all. "My guy won." Well, your guy winning will make it just that much more difficult for me to get on with my life, and I'm not alone. There are many, many more Americans like me - decent people who just are down on their luck, and the Bush/Republican domestic policy is to merely discard us. I hope you're prepared to be personally accountable for the outcomes of the next 4 years since "your guy won." :greenface
I just have one thought on this whole situation....
Democrats have generally been supporters of more Social Programs...the funding of which comes from where....let's see...more tax dollars, which in turn reduces my pay check. Republicans have generally be supporters of fewer Social Programs, preferring that people do what they can to support themselves...which in turn...keeps the money I earn, in MY pocket. Now, I'm not questioning why you may or may not be working. I'm also not saying that it may or may not be a valid reason to be relying on social programs.
But personally, I don't think the Republican Domestic policy is to discard people - in turn, it's a movement to get people to be more personally responsible for their own lives, health and welfare - rather than relying on the Government to support them, pay their bills, give them goodies.
You have bootstraps....tug on them, you may be suprised where you get.
And before you jump on my back....I'm a single, white woman, living on my own, making a minimal salary, with my own health issues and not taking a single blessed dime from the Government. And damn proud of it.
...
My point is that there are a lot of factors that go into the situation. There are going to be people from the military that refuse to fight americans, hell there are going to be people who line up for it, and there are more guns and people outside of the military than in it.
If you believe there will be a draft, and you voted on that basis, you are a loser, an idiot, and a moron, and I can prove it to within several significant digits.
UT, could you please share that information, it could be handy this afternoon.
Dag
I used to think like you, Dagney. I am just like you only I make pretty good money (for slave labor, that is.)--The republican's tax just as much as the dems only instead of giving it back to the people--where it belongs--they give it to companies like enron, halliburton, adelphia, oh, and to themselves. They squeeze the middle class. My hospital doesn't turn people away because they've no insurance--they eat the cost. Teachers don't deny their students classroom goods, they just pay for it themselves, out of their own pockets, because the money that was supposed to be there from the gov't is now in some rich white guys pocket.
Hrmm..you didn't get your tax cut in 2003?
Has everybody vented their drama yet?
Let it go, and get on with your lives.
Nope. I've got about four more years of drama left, or at least as long as it'll be legal to vent it.
My primary political party is now marginalized to a point that won't be recoverable for decades, if ever. There is no reason for the Republicans to even pretend to work towards bipartisanism; the likes of DeLay will use this mandate as a bludgeon to do what they want, how they want, when they want, with Senatorial filibusters remaining the Democrats' last-ditch and rarely-used method of delaying the inevitable. Not preventing; delaying.
More wars. More dead bodies. More tax cuts. Higher deficits. More faith-based programs and rhetoric. More redistricting follies. More input from the religious right. More frontal assaults on social and economic programs. More ultraconservative judges on the Supreme Court. More Ashcroft. More pressure on the remaining Democrats to cave in and simply give the Republicans everything they want.
THAT'S what yesterday's election endorsed; it was anything but a simple choice of one leader versus another. The Democratic Party wasn't defeated, it was fucking slaughtered across the board, apart from the mercy killing of Alan Keyes. The Democrats had been reduced to a whimper _before_ this last stand, and the evangelicals came out to ensure that not only would it stay that way, but that the country'd be FURTHER tilted in the God, Guns and Anti-Gay direction.
The Religious Right is at the controls in ways they never managed even during the Reagan administration. The Constitution Restoration Act (which would remove the Supreme and federal courts' jurisdiction over any Establishment Clause issues)? It's coming. We barely dodged it the last time. There is an absolutely _desperate_ need for the remaining Democrats to block as many judicial appointments as possible now, and it's simply (IMHO) not going to happen.
So yeah, I _am_ fucking angry and nervous and scared and needing to vent. The two-party political system I've grown up knowing is over now; now it's a 900-pound gorilla dictating terms to its token opposition and to the world at large. If you're seriously suggesting that I should "get over it" before the corpse is even cold, you can go screw yourself.
Okay, I REALLY need someone to explain to me (apparently because I'm stupid) why someone who voted for Bush is a retarted rabbit.
. . .
You may not be happy with what happened last night. You may be plotting to have Ohio surgically removed from the union. You may even be thinking about moving to Canada (mapquest has good directions....have at it). But why does a difference in opinion make someone stupid?
We had this discussion last night, while watching the election returns. I have voted before, many times, and my choice has lost sometimes. I have never felt as much rage and befuddlement as I have felt during this election. I think, more than anything, it's the war in Iraq.
Economic and domestic differences are minor compared to the fact that innocent people (i.e. collateral damage) are being killed regularly by American forces. People who vote for George Bush are endorsing this kind of behaviour and I feel it's a divide I cannot bridge.
I have to believe it's stupidity of the sort herd animals exhibit when blindly following a herd leader. Otherwise, it's a deliberate decision on the American voter's part that other people in the world are not worth as much as Americans are. ("If we fight the terror war in Iraq, they'll leave the U.S. alone." Why is an Iraqi child worth less than an American one?) If our vote is deliberate rather than sheer stupidity, I am ashamed to be an American. We are the terrorists in Iraq, and we deserve what we get. And George Bush will NEVER get his hands on my children to fight his senseless, evil wars.
Hrmm..you didn't get your tax cut in 2003?
that wasn't a cut, dag. that was an advance.
All of this talk of George Bush's evilness and the evil nature of all his pursuits begs the question: Isn't he just a manifestation of this country's essence? Sure America gets what it deserves, because America was asleep making money while our government, our miltary, and corporate eminsaries of our government and military were raping the world. Why wake up now? It was all fun and games when times were good and the World Trade Center was still standing, who cares at the time if we're funding groups that lead to the death and opression of thousands of people while claiming to look for fair settlements, freedom and peace, we were drinking lattes and making money. Now when the preverbial shit hits the fan, no one wants to commit to the Militrary-globalist-imperial-capitalisitc machine that keeps all our fat mouths and egos fed. Wake up! It's either your part of the team or not It's either your for oppressive global trade and military practices that slant economic trends towards the US or not, there's no in between. People really think at this point we can turn around and live our little greedy lives withough fitting the bill, they're wrong. It's either we give up a hell of a lot, or we continue to fight these wars, bottom line. If you don't like, quit your job and take up arms, mobilize a formidible opposition, or be part of the pillaging and war machine, otherwise your just straddling the fence I'm afraid.
-Walrus
Democrats have generally been supporters of more Social Programs...the funding of which comes from where....let's see...more tax dollars, which in turn reduces my pay check. Republicans have generally be supporters of fewer Social Programs, preferring that people do what they can to support themselves...
And yet, the red states are the ones that get most of the tax dollars, from the blue states. It would be a bit of justice if we told the red states to go and pull themselves up by their own bootstraps.
You have bootstraps....tug on them, you may be suprised where you get.
Of course, that idiom is used to refer to people with remarkable skill or luck, since taken literally it is impossible. Most people who tug on their shoes will squish their toes, not float into the air.
Well I think we had this discussion here but -- the Pentagon doesn't want or need a draft. Democrat Rangel introduced a bill to reinstate the draft two years ago. Nobody cared. A few weeks ago the legislators brought it back out to make a point, and subsequently voted it down unanimously. Even Rangel voted against his own bill.
A draft is so politically unpopular that neither side will bring it about lest they be voted out the next election. The Pentagon is able to recruit effectively if/when they want to.
All this did not stop Kerry from pressing it in rumorlike fashion, never saying "He will bring back the draft", but instead saying things like "backdoor draft" to describe a condition that volunteers volunteered themselves for. Dancing around the issue in order to take it. The truth is that the draft reflected a different national personality and different national conditions.
The difficult truth is that those red states seem unwilling to believe the D party can be hard-nosed on national defense. Whining about a draft that doesn't and won't exist, won't help.
No draft--just extension of tours ad infinitem? You've no idea what's to happen in the next four years. No crystal ball. My sons will not go. I'd like to see Jenna and Barbara headed out to Iraq, though.
Easy for you to say. :greenface
Look at the bright side: now you have someone to blame. Someone for whom responsibility for your situation can be continuously assigned.
If your sons don't want to go, then they shouldn't sign up.
But, doing so is their choice, not yours.
I'm imagining something like the distress felt by pagan families when they find out they've raised a good Christian.
You children will do what they wish to do, and that could even including joining the military.
I come from a good liberal family, you know. My mother is quite ashamed that I'm a conservative. You think you guys are bad in your distress over the Bush Victory? At least I can talk back to you ... talking back to my elderly mother with a heart condition results in trips to the ER that I can do without.
I'd like to see Jenna and Barbara headed out to Iraq, though.
I wouldn't mind seeing that myself. :D
The senators and representatives that I wrote to all stated to the effect that "we won't vote for a draft unless we have to vote for a draft."
Hardly inspires confidence there won't be one. With declining recruitment numbers, I don't discount it. With more than half the people in America voting for Bush's policies and now a Republican Congress to back him up, who knows what will happen?
Yes Bri, nobody wants YOUR progeny to be serving their country. Nowadays they want the ones who don't pee their pants at the first sign of danger.
The days of cannon fodder are over, but if you want to be a moron, a loser, and an idiot, go ahead and vote on the basis of little more than whim. Because that's how we get great leaders!
UT, you usually avoid the personal attacks, I don't think this merits that kind of rubbish, why do you? Considering the way things are going in Iraq, not to mention TWAT in general, while a flat out draft is unlikely the chances of er....increased suggestions of a career dodging roadside bombs and mortars is likely.
Bri isn't interested in reading for comprehension.
Look at the bright side: now you have someone to blame. Someone for whom responsibility for your situation can be continuously assigned.
To what effect?
If the Republican Party and Bush administration can do what they've done over the past four years and not only win but win across the board, they have no reason to care what those outside their voter base think.
The next opportunity for rank-and-file citizens to express their discontent in any meaningful way is two years away, the midterm Congressional elections. In between then and now, the administration can do whatever damage they want, and force-feed as many theocrats into judicial appointments as possible. If the Democrats can find a way to stem the "moral values" tide between now and then in any measurable capacity, I'll be quite surprised.
Bri isn't interested in reading for comprehension.
Hm. Anyone with a differing opinion is a moron, eh? BTW, my kids are really not up for you to insult. That's waaaay beneath you.
With more than half the people in America voting for Bush's policies and now a Republican Congress to back him up, who knows what will happen?
Hint: Look up the meaning of "representative democracy" and "democratic republic".
The key is in your statement "more than half the people" ...
Oh, you know what?? Now that UT has explained it all to me (moron that I am) I TOTALLY see the error of my stupid ways and am now reformed! I SAID I didn't vote based on the draft issue---or, didn't you read for comprehension there?
How could you say that about my kids?
Hint: Look up the meaning of "representative democracy" and "democratic republic".
The key is in your statement "more than half the people" ...
Somehow, I missed your point.
Cool down, guys. Pick up a pen, write a letter to your representative/post flyers declaring your angst/whatever. This country has been so badly polarized for this long, I'm hoping everyone finds the time to cool down now that its over.
And have a drink, tonight, for Chrissakes. Relax. This election has been more stressful on everyone than most people realize.
Look at the bright side: now you have someone to blame. Someone for whom responsibility for your situation can be continuously assigned.
You bet. So if I see a situation that I percieve as being wrong, I'm supposed to shut up about it, and take it on the chin like a girl. Otherwise I'm playing the role of victim. That way you can do as you please without being accountable. Nice try.
Cool down, guys. Pick up a pen, write a letter to your representative/post flyers declaring your angst/whatever.
My representative is Curt Weldon, who cosponsored a restart-the-draft bill BEFORE Rangel's bill.
My senators are Arlen Specter and Rick "Man-on-Dog" Santorum.
None of them could give a rat's ass what a suburban Democrat thinks.
None of them could give a rat's ass what a suburban Democrat thinks.
Hear, hear! Colorado elected one democrat to the Senate. He may care what I think, but with a Republican President and Republican Congress and, most likely, a Republican Supreme Court, what's he gonna be able to do about it?
Quote: "Always be wary of conflicts faught in your name that you are not asked to participate in" - Walrus
I start with one of my more sardonic statements to make this point: There's no draft because the will of the people to actually paticipate in this conflict is next to nothing. This is part of Charlie Rangel's contention. Although his reasoning is that it should effect law makers decisions if there children were forced to hide from a standing draft. My assertion is that this would awake the American people to the realities of the conflict in ways that are nothing short than extreme. Bush and the military-industrial complex don't want to alarm the coffers that the American tax payer offers. They start sending regular kids to die in the sand, you would see a lot of angry citizens. These are citizens not from military backgrounds, like many of the volunteers we see fighting today. A draft would mean true re-enfranchisement of the electorate, we would truly have a right, because regular people's lives would be on the line. All this would mean more people would want to be involved in decsion making, and policy would be harder to control.
-Walrus
I have to admit that the results of this election look truly awful, but a vote by 51% of the population does not mean that this country is a 100% loss, no matter how you consider the implications. The people of this country are still nearly split in half, so we are not alone in our emotions. So while I have no intentions of keeping quiet and attempting to pretend I'm pleased over the state of our nation and the administration, I do plan to do good with the energy derrived from my displeasure, even if it means writing letters to whoever will listen to my concerns.
And, I've already figured out, arguing and debating about the petty issues in this election does no good. In fact, I firmly believe that those tactics are what did John Kerry in. The only way you'll make a difference is to make people aware of the changes that are coming and why you are concerned about them. This is our chance to witness these changes in action, make them noticed, and correct the future through our actions and words. We endured four years, we can do four more. And four more could well swing this country in the other direction.
Or, maybe it'll all just fall straight to hell. I dunno.
I'm pretty sure that this is the beginning of a full blown war with multiple participants. something stupid will happen in Korea, and we'll be in a land war in China before we know it. On the bright side....
....uhm...
......i got nothin' here.
something stupid will happen in Korea
It is inebitabull...
I just have one thought on this whole situation....
Democrats have generally been supporters of more Social Programs...the funding of which comes from where....let's see...more tax dollars, which in turn reduces my pay check. Republicans have generally be supporters of fewer Social Programs, preferring that people do what they can to support themselves...which in turn...keeps the money I earn, in MY pocket.
OK, I tried kissing and making up down in the philosophy forum, and no one seems ready for that. FINE!
If you are so worried about your damn pocket book then why aren't you whining about hundreds of BILLIONS of dollars, not to mention lives thrown away in a stupid war to no end. That's where your tax dollars are going NOT to a few very inadequately funded social programs that cost in the mere hundreds of millions. We are talking about social irresponsibility here, NOT fiscal responsibility, but you conservatives are too bone-headed to get it.
Now, I'm not questioning why you may or may not be working. I'm also not saying that it may or may not be a valid reason to be relying on social programs.
But personally, I don't think the Republican Domestic policy is to discard people - in turn, it's a movement to get people to be more personally responsible for their own lives, health and welfare - rather than relying on the Government to support them, pay their bills, give them goodies.
You have bootstraps....tug on them, you may be suprised where you get.
And before you jump on my back....I'm a single, white woman, living on my own, making a minimal salary, with my own health issues and not taking a single blessed dime from the Government. And damn proud of it.
You can take your pride and stick it where the sun don't shine, honey. That's what I've had to do with mine. I'm a single white woman who fought like a tiger to get back on her feet, and what I got in return was bullshit. When I needed a hand, the Republican backed system refused to give me anything back that I paid into it for a good 25 years.. F--K them and their whiney "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" BS. I came from a working class family. My father was an NCO in the military. I still managed to get two graduate degrees and make a better life for myself until something beyond my control happened to me. So what's wrong with YOU? You are whining to the wrong person about bootstraps and minmum wage. Go back to school and shut up.
mmm-tried to tell her, mari, that republicans tax as much as dems only republicans KEEP the money where dem's redistribute it...she didn't bite. Then she asked me if I'd rec'd my "tax cut"--HA! was no tax cut--was merely an advance on what I would have gotten back anyfuckingway. No response from dag on either point.
whatever.
The September 11th attacks were better news for America than this election.
I dont know if the draft will come back, but it is not a ridiculous notion.
I know that the military is stretched very thin. I know that the various service divisions have not made their recruiting goals and are now offering a variety of new bonus incentives. I do know that a provision of the No Child Left Behind law seeks to collect the names and addresses of young men, and soon, young women of draftable age, and currently uses this info to direct recruit. I do see that Rumsfeld's bold rethinking of the military has ignored the Powell doctrine and what was learned in Vietnam. And it seems that something must give. So we'll see. Perhaps we will succeed quickly in Iraq and Afghanistan. Or perhaps we will suffer another catastrophic attack that will spur enlistment just when we need it most. I hope its the former.
Or once the elections in Iraq take place, Bush could just declare victory and cut them loose. I don't think it would take much prodding for the press to not cover any ensuing chaos in the country. We could then blissfully forget we ever went there.
I dont know if the draft will come back, but it is not a ridiculous notion.
I know that the military is stretched very thin. I know that the various service divisions have not made their recruiting goals and are now offering a variety of new bonus incentives. I do know that a provision of the No Child Left Behind law seeks to collect the names and addresses of young men, and soon, young women of draftable age, and currently uses this info to direct recruit. I do see that Rumsfeld's bold rethinking of the military has ignored the Powell doctrine and what was learned in Vietnam. And it seems that something must give. So we'll see. Perhaps we will succeed quickly in Iraq and Afghanistan. Or perhaps we will suffer another catastrophic attack that will spur enlistment just when we need it most. I hope its the former.
UT assures me that the draft WILL NOT happen. How dare you? He says anyone who thinks the draft MAY happen is a moron, idiot and something else I can't recall. Oh,yeah, "Loser"---geeez, you're stupid.
He's been wrong before, the optimist. I still love him. (He cuts me the same slack, I hope.)
And hey, I hope he is right! :)
That's not what I said Bri.
Warch and I know how to disagree. At the end of the day, it don't matter 'tall.
Now that Cheney is at the wheel for 4 more years! It does my heart somewhat good to realize that the state of MS. has no monopoly on illiterate, uninformed, unwashed and poor misguide folks.
Or once the elections in Iraq take place, Bush could just declare victory and cut them loose. I don't think it would take much prodding for the press to not cover any ensuing chaos in the country. We could then blissfully forget we ever went there.
When is a good time to leave? In your opinion? :question:
Is there one? I'm afraid Bush got us into a no-win situation.
The sooner we leave, the better. The longer we stay, the more dead and the deeper the quagmire. When will we EVER learn the lessons that history has to teach?
My
thoughts on the election outcome.
Sycamore, what the heck is that? The "wolf-sycamore" commentary show? Or is it an alternate Cellar universe where everything is different colors? :)
Eh, my comments,
here, which replaced my front page and will for the next three days.
There's a whole lot of yelling on the 'net, tonight. ...and a whole lot of good any of it is going to do. :headshake
Sycamore, what the heck is that? The "wolf-sycamore" commentary show?
More or less...don't forget Bruce. :)
The Bosque replaced the original
Sycamore Manifestos in February.
My thoughts on the election outcome.
If you go to Drudge right now there is this (unlinked) headline:
<b><i>Attorney General John Ashcroft 'plans to submit his resignation to Bush in the next several days'... Attorney General John Ashcroft 'plans to submit his resignation to Bush in the next several days'... </i></b>
Holy shit! This is a step in the right direction, if true. Maybe there really is a God. Is this going to be 'A Kinder, Gentler America: Part 2'?
Wow, Syc. That was -- eloquent. :thumbsup:
If you go to Drudge right now there is this (unlinked) headline:
<b><i>Attorney General John Ashcroft 'plans to submit his resignation to Bush in the next several days'... Attorney General John Ashcroft 'plans to submit his resignation to Bush in the next several days'... </i></b>
Holy shit! This is a step in the right direction, if true. Maybe there really is a God. Is this going to be 'A Kinder, Gentler America: Part 2'?
Not if he replaces him with
Anita Bryant..
Seriously, this could be an attempt to de-politicize the DOJ, or it could be an attempt to bring in someone with less ethics to overlook the indiscretions of large campaign contributors. One thing about Ashcroft is that he was honest. It might be that Karl needs to repay some debts and an honest man would make things complicated.
Is this going to be 'A Kinder, Gentler America: Part 2'?
Eh...I don't recall things being kindler and gentler during Bush Sr.'s term.
If you go to Drudge right now there is this (unlinked) headline:
<b><i>Attorney General John Ashcroft 'plans to submit his resignation to Bush in the next several days'... Attorney General John Ashcroft 'plans to submit his resignation to Bush in the next several days'... </i></b>
Holy shit! This is a step in the right direction, if true.
Not really. I expect Ashcroft to be replaced with someone just as bad, perhaps not as flamboyant as Mr. Let The Eagle Soar, but equally dangerous.
My stomach has been hurting all day. I hope to get at least a little sleep tonight.
Eh...I don't recall things being kindler and gentler during Bush Sr.'s term.
Eh...they were kinder and gentler then than they are now. Maybe Dubya is back smoking dope again. I just dunno.
mmm-tried to tell her, mari, that republicans tax as much as dems only republicans KEEP the money where dem's redistribute it...she didn't bite. Then she asked me if I'd rec'd my "tax cut"--HA! was no tax cut--was merely an advance on what I would have gotten back anyfuckingway. No response from dag on either point.
whatever.
Good freakin lord, yanno, I do have a JOB where I don't exactly have the ability to respond to your comments.
And I'm not going to bite on a bone that's been drug through the mud. Really no use in it. You're convinced you're right, I'm convinced I'm right. When you put your hackles down (Both of you), maybe we'll be able to talk about this intelligently.
Considering I've been splattered with the mud both of you are slinging, I'm doubting that highly.
But considering I've been called an anti-feminist ignorant bigoted babykiller today, I guess I will just go back to my hole.
Good lord people are ugly today.
I went looking at the
Selective Service website. I did so to confirm some information that I thought I recalled. 18 year olds began having to register with the selective service in 1980, based on a law initiated in July of that year. Who was responsible? Jimmy Carter.
OK, I tried kissing and making up down in the philosophy forum, and no one seems ready for that. FINE! I still managed to get two graduate degrees and make a better life for myself until something beyond my control happened to me. So what's wrong with YOU? You are whining to the wrong person about bootstraps and minmum wage. Go back to school and shut up.
First off, I don't recall whining. That's more your territory...you seem to have a knack for it. I do what needs to be done, I don't sit around and wish someone else will do it for me.
I have two Bachelor's degree, a Master's degree, and have probably forgotten more about some things than you'll ever hope to learn.
I'm still not sitting there with my hand out waiting for the state to Pay my Rent.
I have a job. It may not pay much, but it pays. I'm not even going to waste my time with this. I was making a civil statement that did not attack you in ANY way, and you start slinging shit.
Try upping your dose of Paxil babe..you need it.
Is there one? I'm afraid Bush got us into a no-win situation.
In my opinion.........anytime...not excluding yesterday. The real question being, what are we really looking to win? Mid East democracy is a doomed ideal from the outset. A complete fiction. No matter how much we expect to gain from this with fuel, we will never cover the cost of taxpayer dollars and the expense of human lives. We have begun to indebt ourselves to failure.
Good lord people are ugly today.
What's wrong with everyone? Why must you yell like this? My god... c-can't you see you're all tearing this family apart? :bawling:
Stop yelling! The kids are going to hear us!
Unfortunately, pulling out will result in Iraq being a massive terrorist state. If that is inevitable, then pulling out ASAP is best. If there's a hope of some sort of functioning government, it may be worthwhile holding out for it. I'm not sure whether there's hope at this point.
Unfortunately, pulling out will result in Iraq being a massive terrorist state. If that is inevitable, then pulling out ASAP is best. If there's a hope of some sort of functioning government, it may be worthwhile holding out for it. I'm not sure whether there's hope at this point.
I feel that we have completely destabilized the area. The choices are a US propped government in Iraq with continued guerilla unrest or pulling out and leaving things to the various warring factions who will ultimately sort things out amongst themselves. Neither option is pretty.
First off, I don't recall whining. That's more your territory...you seem to have a knack for it. I do what needs to be done, I don't sit around and wish someone else will do it for me.
I have two Bachelor's degree, a Master's degree, and have probably forgotten more about some things than you'll ever hope to learn.
I'm still not sitting there with my hand out waiting for the state to Pay my Rent.
I have a job. It may not pay much, but it pays. I'm not even going to waste my time with this. I was making a civil statement that did not attack you in ANY way, and you start slinging shit.
Try upping your dose of Paxil babe..you need it.
You know what, Dagney? I apologize. I have been terribly upset by the outcome of this election and I lost it. While I don't agree with you politically, this doesn't mean I have to get nasty about it. I'm sorry.
The war on terrorism. Terrorism won. Drugs the won war on drugs....guess who won the war on poverty? Maybe we need to dismantle these half-baked problem solving ideas and come up with a solution to help our homeland instead of propagandizing the situation, and ultimately proving terrorism works.
I went looking at the Selective Service website. I did so to confirm some information that I thought I recalled. 18 year olds began having to register with the selective service in 1980, based on a law initiated in July of that year. Who was responsible? Jimmy Carter.
Oh my god, that's hilarious! We've sunken to blaming
Jimmy-friggin-Carter for things now? I was pretty young during his presidency, but I do remember that Iran was in our faces pretty bad during those years. Funny, but Mr. Carter didn't decide to start in full-scale, zillion dollar, unwinnable war with Iran. Oh wait, maybe it's because they didn't have any
"Weapons of Mass Destruction."Almost everybody supports the theory of a draft in times of dire national emergency, assuming a dramatic enough definition of dire. Almost nobody actually wants to initiate it. Any dickering about who did what in creating the infrastructure for it is irrelevant. The issue is who you think would be more likely to cause the escalation of a national emergency to the scale where a draft is necessary.
In case of actual national emergency, they will have to turn people away from the recruiting offices. In case of manufactured emergency, it depends how the action is interpreted.
They'll turn some away, and have to draft others. That's
always been true.
They'll turn some away, and have to draft others. That's always been true.
Yeah, it was certainly true in the only real "just" war we ever involved in: WWII. Young men certainly rushed to join the military after Pearl Harbour, but we still had to have a draft for all that.
Yeah, it was certainly true in the only real "just" war we ever involved in: WWII.
Huh???
Huh???
Huh, what? Are you saying WWII couldn't really be labeled a just war or are you saying other wars we were involved in were just? I was speaking of the modern era, btw. One could also say that the Civil War was a just war, and the war of the American Revolution was, as well. One might also argue that all wars are evil. Or were you disputing my comment on the draft? :confused:
Why do you argue only WWII?
Why do you argue only WWII?
Gotcha, well I hope I clarified with that amendment about the modern era. Should have put that in my original reply. ;)
Good lord people are ugly today.
What's wrong with everyone? Why must you yell like this? My god... c-can't you see you're all tearing this family apart? :bawling:
Stop yelling! The kids are going to hear us!
My god people, you're almost as bad as.......Congress. :eek:
Gotcha, well I hope I clarified with that amendment about the modern era.
Nope...you didn't answer my question.
Nope...you didn't answer my question.
After 1900, the only "good" war (if you ever can call a war good) that the US has been engaged in was WWII, IMO. I'm pretty much a pacifist, so it takes something like being attacked by another NATION, plus the holocaust for me to feel a country is doing the right thing by going to war. I'm sure some, if not many, might disagree with me on this. I think having a parent be in the military and growing up with the constant fear that my Dad might not ever come home is probably responsible for at least some of my outlook in that regard.
We could then blissfully forget we ever went there.
The families of the people who died over there as a result of this guys politics will never forget.
Nor should the world forget the consequences to what happened.
If we forget we'll do it again.
Good thing they never forgot vietnam or or you could end up unilaterally invading some other country on ideological grounds only to have it all end in tears.
Good thing they never forgot vietnam or or you could end up unilaterally invading some other country on ideological grounds only to have it all end in tears.
Do I detect a hint of sarcasm here? :cool:
I'm a plain old straight talkin' type mari, no idea what you're talking about.
Reminds me of one of my favorite new words - sarchasm - the yawning divide between you and the person that didn't get it.
To me, it seems like the US has learned very little from the Vietnam fiasco. If we had, we wouldn't be in Iraq today.
Damn politics! Now I'm polar-ized. :blush:
Ahh..here we go I know this reflects how some of us here feel about last week.
Thanks also to everyone who has offered us assistance, everyone who has sent us kudos or words of encouragement, and especially those of you who have brightened our arduous night with scads of uproarious hate mail.
They encourage any- and everyone to email them. Remember, this a time of healing!...or at least W Jr says so.
The September 11th attacks were better news for America than this election.
Stupidest....remark...ever....
Stupidest....remark...ever....
It's a factual remark and only a jackass would call it stupid. George W. Bush is eliminating every check and balance in our government. When he appoints supreme court justices, he'll have NOTHING to prevent him from implementing his twisted religious agenda.
He has already murdered more than 100,000 innocent civilians, and gotten 1,100 Americans killed and counting. By the end of his term, there won't be much of America left to save.
That looks more like Liberace than Dubya.
It's a factual remark and only a jackass would call it stupid. George W. Bush is eliminating every check and balance in our government.
How about this, as a less inflammatory version:
9/11 was the _enabler_ that defused most of the potential resistance to the Bush administration's agenda.
Stacked courts full of bible-thumpers and foreign policy that inflames friend and foe alike have the potential to be more damaging in the long run to what we currently know as America than a single terrorist attack, even one as severe as 9/11. This election set the table for both of those things to happen.
This ornament has been selected from renowned designer Christopher Radko’s exclusive “Stars and Stripes Collection.”
I haven't laughed so hard in a while.
How about this, as a less inflammatory version
vsp, can you server as translator for Radar from here on out? He makes an awful lot of good points, but always manages to null them out by shooting himself in the foot through unneeded insults.
What's the salary? That might be a full-time job.
Too late.
Supply Side Jesus is doing a better job of conveying the ideals.
Too late. Supply Side Jesus is doing a better job of conveying the ideals.
Too bad Al Franken is a moron. The cartoon depicts not a supply-side economy but a demand-based economy where economic growth is created through consumption.
As for the other aspects of the cartoon - just meaningless pot shots at a guy that I think most people would agree, religious or not, lived a pretty decent life.
Al Franken sure has come a long way from boiling cockroaches alive on SNL to his current status as a diety of the liberals.
As for the other aspects of the cartoon - just meaningless pot shots at a guy that I think most people would agree, religious or not, lived a pretty decent life.
Who are you referring to?
Who are you referring to?
Jesus. I don't understand why they used Jesus as the main character when there are so many other folk who deserve that lampoon or, at least, should expect to get lampooned that way. Jesus is probably the last person I would have used - and not on religious grounds but on any grounds: comedy, irony, satire, ???
I'm not personally offended, I just don't get it.
It's a CARTOON. Relax.
And I love Al Franken :3eye:
The whole point is that it is not Jesus. The real Jesus even shows up to drive that point home, and there are no potshots at him. The potshots are at the people who throw aside the egalitarian and compassionate teachings of Jesus in favor of a philosophy that promotes giving to the wealthy in hopes that the money will trickle down, and then wrap their politics in the name of Jesus.
And I love Al Franken :3eye:
Why am I not surprised. Air America fan, too?
Why am I not surprised. Air America fan, too?
Aren't you too busy wrangling nuts and bashing other cultures to be making such inane comments?
OOOh. Hit a nerve.
I never found Al Franken funny, even in the real heydey of Saturday Night Live. By the time he was a regular cast member and doing the Stuart Smalley schtick, the show had become pretty much unwatchable. And when a 30 second bit that isn't funny becomes a movie that isn't funny, that's pretty much the death knell. He just didn't hear it, I guess.
Oh my. That's it. You heard it here first ... Al Franken is a comedic zombie!
OOOh. Hit a nerve.
Don't flatter yourself, sweetie (I know how much you love it when people call you sweetie!) :D
Oooops, did I hit a nerve? Sorry.
Oh my. That's it. You heard it here first ... Al Franken is a comedic zombie!
Oh my. That's it. Once again, wolf knows everything!
:D I'd hate to cut in here...but I thought it was well done no matter who the artist involved with it's creation was. Jesus being the main character seemed to be actually a necessity toon to drive a point home. You could use any number of main characters but to achieve the actual theme wasn't Jesus an obvious choice? Go back and try it with Superman........or Mickey Mouse with that squeaky voice......or maybe even you..... :D
Then again, I don't get New Yorker cartoons either.
I'm not up in arms about it - I was just trying to understand it. Thanks HM for at least taking the time to explain it.
[FONT=Courier New][andyrooney][/FONT] Dja ever notice how Al Franken's head is way to big for his body? Like he borrowed it from somebody twice his size but never gave it back?[FONT=Courier New][/andyrooney] [/FONT]
Nothing says "Baby? No way" like a quicky vasectomy.
LOL ah yes: the golden snip. That says to me: "Honey, I love you enough to not poison you with my sperm, have you push out an 8,9,10+ pound being from between your legs and try to raise and
LIE to that being about the fucked up world we live in."
:mad2: :mad: :mad2: :mad:
Thanks, America.
While voting on small things such as taxes and moral issues, we're going to see another four years of a president that supports:
Restrictions on how you may express your dislike of your government.
Restrictions on where you may express your dislike of your government.
Fuck that bullshit. NO ONE is restricting what I say and when/where *I* say it! He (Bush) can eat shit and die and go fuck himself for all I care.
Land of the free, my ass. Thanks, America, for voting with your emotions on the petty shit the commercials on TV told you to be concerned with instead of the important stuff. You're going to get the president you deserve.
Amen!!
:thumbsup:
And there we had the end of it. Four years ago this week -- ish. This fortnight.
*Nods*
I wish Lady Syc could have seen this.