Brits: how much do you hate Americans
Please tell me whether
this FrontPage article is just a bunch of right-wingish fear mongering and not representative as a whole of Brits attitudes towards Americans and/or Jews.
...and as the bus driver and passengers laughed, she screamed into the American’s face ‘I wish every one of you would leave this country and not set foot in it ever again,’ and Mrs A began to wince, crying. ‘Thank you for ruining my day and my trip.’ At this point Lady E lunged at the American and began to shake her. I jumped up and shouted at the top of my voice for the driver to stop and for her to leave the woman alone, prompting Lady E to come over to me and grab me. ‘Another bloody American accent! You come here and think you can strut about, well, you are scum.’ Thankfully, the woman next to me pushed her away. I left the bus as the American woman sat sobbing.
..The English are not known for public displays of fury except perhaps at soccer matches, but there is something about an American accent that brings out their pent-up rage.
First of all, I deal with Brits online quite a bit in BBSs. I make it a point to put the fact that I am pro-Bush and pro-Iraqi Freedom in the profiile or at some point in my introduction. It may be true that many of their members avoid me but I havent noticed.
Secondly, if it is that big of an issue, lets show support for your particular postition by selectively spending your money with "your own". If we Americans are such bastards, then dont do business with us, dont take our money. That applies not just with Brits but everyone. If we are truly at odds with so many people in the world, fine, show it by exercising "selective spending".
Yah, I know, this is for the Brits only.
I can trace my name to a town in England. Does that count?
Well...my parents went to London and were there for 4 days last year. I don't know if being black had anything to do with it, but I'd wager their American accent was as noticable as a British accent is here and they didn't have any trouble while they were there.
The war in Iraq has cut European favorable attitudes toward the US in half:
http://people-press.org/reports/display.php3?ReportID=206
I talked to two Polish immigrants yesterday who have lived in the US for 20 years, become naturalized citizens, and raised their two children here. They are actually thinking about going back to Poland and feel that the EU has a stronger economy than that of the US and that the US is fast loosing support among the EU's member states. The polls above would seem to back their perceptions up. (pun unintended!)
Being a "half-breed", as it were, and living in both countries for some time, I have experienced more prejudice in England as an American than I have in America as a Brit.
The cab rides are more expensive, service (like waiters/waitresses) slower, and sly looks between salespeople followed by snotty remarks as you leave a store are common.
Then, a few months later, I went in to the same store using a British accent and magically I was well taken care of, by the same two people. The cab ride (same company, same pick up and drop off point) was half the price.
When I came back to America (British accent habitually in place), I didn't get a second look.
I don't know if ALL Limeys (not OUR Limey...) hate Yanks, but certainly many in the Cambridgeshire/Peterborough area do.... Of course, last time I lived over there was...May 97, so it could be different...
1 - Consider the source, a Horowitz rag that still prints Coulter.
2 - There are indeed some irrational and prejudicial people in every country. The key word is "some."
3 - 90% of the article is made up of hearsay anecdotes.
4 - Consider the source, a Horowitz rag that still prints Coulter.
5 - Anti-American hostility in other nations is not exactly what I'd call "a new thing," much less a Bush-specific thing. Whether it's reached the exaggerated proportions suggested by this article is another matter, though American foreign policy during Bush's term certainly hasn't helped.
6 - An entire busload of Brits laughing and encouraging an abusive verbal tirade against a polite, elderly American woman... well, it doesn't exactly pass the credibility sniff test without corroboration.
7 - Consider the source, a Horowitz rag that still prints Coulter.
8 - Air-drop a French person with a distinct French accent into many parts of Good-Ol' God-Fearin' Flag-Wavin' Fox-News-Watchin' America. Watch what happens.
9 - The video store guy's "Is this another one of your Jewish-Holocaust things?" tirade... c'mon. While I don't doubt that there are people in the world who believe the kind of swill put into the video store guy's mouth in this article, how often do visceral tirades of that nature just pop up out of the blue, without provocation, without reason? Let alone for "twenty minutes or so" in the middle of a public shop? Who would stand there and take that kind of verbal abuse for twenty minutes, anyway?
10 - Consider the source, a Horowitz rag that still prints Coulter.
Can I sum it up with a general "GET THE FUCK OUT OF HERE!" gut-laugh directed at the original author?
Sorry, but I've been around the world and seen anti-American sentiment all over the place; especially with all of the atrocities at the hands of Bush and his administration. I'm proud to be a zionist, an American, an atheist, and a libertarian and I don't care who knows. I'd also end up kicking the shit out of a lot of brits if they got in my face for any one of those.
The war in Iraq has cut European favorable attitudes toward the US in half: http://people-press.org/reports/display.php3?ReportID=206
"Does anyone say ‘George W Bush’ or ‘Donald Rumsfeld’ or Dick Cheney’ when they fly into these tirades? No. In fact, the visceral, hurtful and in-your-face America-hatred goes back long before the days of the Bush 43 regime. "
I talked to two Polish immigrants yesterday who have lived in the US for 20 years, become naturalized citizens, and raised their two children here. They are actually thinking about going back to Poland and feel that the EU has a stronger economy than that of the US and that the US is fast loosing support among the EU's member states. The polls above would seem to back their perceptions up. (pun unintended!)
If they go back to Poland because they think the economy is stronger there, they're justifying a rather large number of Polack jokes.
"Does anyone say ‘George W Bush’ or ‘Donald Rumsfeld’ or Dick Cheney’ when they fly into these tirades? No. In fact, the visceral, hurtful and in-your-face America-hatred goes back long before the days of the Bush 43 regime. "
Perhaps, although when I traveled last in Europe - more than ten years ago, now - I saw little evidence of anti-Americanism. Everyone was pretty nice, all in all. I experienced the "ugly American" syndrome only when I traveled to foreign countries at the height of Vietnam. I have no recent experience overseas, so cannot comment further than that. If you look at the link I gave above, however, you will note that it consists of research done by a reputable outfit concerning changes in European attitudes since the beginning of the war in Iraq - not historical outlooks, but recent.
If they go back to Poland because they think the economy is stronger there, they're justifying a rather large number of Polack jokes.
No, I think they are reflecting the man in the street's dismay over outsourcing. The wife is a skilled craftsperson and artist. Her local job got outsourced and she feels pretty fed up. Poland is joining the EU and its economic prospects look brighter than they have in years.
Being a Brit, i'd say the report is a crock! I travel thousands of miles all around the UK every year. I certainly wouldn't say that of the hundreds of people I meet, any were anti American. The company I work for is based in Indianapolis so the conversations I have with people invariably involve talking about our American parent division and it's employees. Most are just interested to find out how different things are done over there.
I've only been to Indianapolis once. It was great fun, plenty of beer and nice folks.
The article seems to propose that Europeans hate americans because we like jews? Europeans are jew haters? Upper class jew hating? Can this be for real? I've been to other countires and their distaste for americans was firmly based in practicalities. Hmmm......suspicious of a human rights group to attack someone at a meeting for being an american. Maybe it's this specific american that's the problem........and not for any of the reasons mentioned in the article. Maybe the woman in theater is being Dramatic?
The "dialogue" sounds totally unconvincing to me in both the bus incident and the shop incident.
There is an undercurrent of anti americanism .......but it isnt that overt and it isnt that angry. Most people I think have the capacity to say anti american things in discussions but if presented with an American in their midst are more likely ( in my experience) to be curious about them and explore their views.....There really is very little a Brit likes more than a heated debate. ......Also much of what is said which could be seen as anti American is really anti American foreign policy or a knee jerk response to the worlds current Empire in residence.
To compare the Jews of pre holocaust Germany with an American in London I think is falling into a journalistic trap which merely serves to diminish the horror of the Holocaust. Time marches on and generations go through their schooling ....Dont think that the emotional response of a ten year old today upon hearing tales of the Nazi crimes is in any way the same emotional response that you had....or that I had, or that our parents had. In these days of mass media where genocide is a semi regular feature on the news, how can children grasp the scale of a holocaust 2000 years in the making if it is used so casually to illustrate a point ?
My main problem though is that the article sounds false. I can well believe Onyx's description of anti american sentiment, with the low kew unfriendliness and whispering and so on. But then people can be rude. That's about being different I think. I have had similar experience as an eczema sufferer. There have been a couple of occassions where I have had to interract with new people whilst in the midst of a flareup and they've been downright rude ( as per Onyx's story) and then a few days later had cause to interract with them again ( in one case to return an item to a catalogue shop) and they've not recognised me ( I assume) and been all smiles and good customer servce.
There is I think for many people here a default setting of cynicism and suspicion when it comes to America in theory ........ but when presented with a real live breathing, bonafide American theyre far more likely to be either dazzled by the excitement of having someone new and interesting to add a little spice to their day or studiously unimpressed ......or directly challenging about America and it's role in the world. I simply do not believe the visceral attacks were as described in that article. That kind of venom most Brits reserve for "bogus asylum seekers " and even then it's usually only the paid up fascists who'll shout about it.
I think the majority though seperate their view of the administration and certain aspects of the culture from their view of the people themselves. They dont apply the same modes of thought that they apply to people they see as fundamentally different. Most Brits I think have a sense of Americans as more alike than different culturally, whereas they may not necessarily see that same balance of difference when it comes to a Pakistani immigrant.
For some people America seems more like us than does France or Germany for others it is the opposite way around.....all depends on how they define their Britishness (does parity in language and humour mark like to like or is parity in political or religious sensibilities more relevant)
My guess is she has probably encountered some people who have tried to debate with her on some issue and it's drifted onto the topic of Palestine and then the standard British/European position on the Middle East problem has been argued and misinterpreted as anti Jewish sentiment. Being against the actions of the current Israeli administration does not equate to being anti Jewish, no more than being anti bush equates to being anti American.
The whiff of Bullshit that comes from this article is just too much.
I'm just glad you don't have scratch and sniff on this computer.
There is great Anti-war/Anti Bush/Blair feelings over here at present and some feelings are running high after Ken Bigley was killed,but berating an elderly lady on a bus where other passengers and the driver were laughing Crap never happened.
If any one has ever been on a London bus/tube if anything happens the fellow passengers are usually breaking their necks trying to look the other way in embarressed silence.
Nope this never happened because if it did it would have made the news over here.
Most Brits don't hate Americans,just very wary of your government.
Most Brits don't hate Americans,just very wary of your government.
As well you should be, I certainly am. :(
The article would've scored even more wingnut points if there'd been a suspicious group of Syrian musicians on the bus in question, playing a jaunty tune for the Brits while they berated the poor American tourist.
I think Dana's said it all, some excellent points there my dear.
Of course there is anti-American sentiment, but lets take the word 'American' out for a second. Most people, in most countries, will be 'anti' something, most of the time. For the English, it is usually the Monarchy, the NHS, America, the French, the Germans, Scottish football, the Northerners, the Southerners... you get the idea. Wherever there is a distinction there is conflict. It just so happens that America is being run by the most incompetant deluded unfettered fool in modern history, which kind of adds to that 'anti' sentiment.
But please, most of us are not stupid enough to blame the average Joe (see how we adapt your terminology - imitation is the highest form of flattery) for political and world events. As vsp says, you get wankers in every country; don't assume all people only hate Americans. Some idiots hate everyone else too.
PS. Excuse me UT could we have a 'cup of tea' smiley please?
I lived in England this past summer for 2 months. I have nothing but positive things to say about my experience and all of the English people that I met. I was never treated with disrespect or negatively because I was from the US.
I do find that many Americans, when abroad, act like spoiled brats because things aren't the same as they are in the US. Hello! That's why you travel - to experience new things... There were numerous occasions when I was quited tempted to burn my passport and renounce my citizenship because of boorish American behavior. Moral of the story - if you act like an ass, regardless what country you're from, people won't like you.
I am probably more anti-american now than I was before, but I really had a lovely time there and can't wait to go back. It's a great country.
Service in restaurants does tend to be slower than we are used to, but just chalk it up to cultural differences. Buy someone a pint, and you have a friend for life :).
[QUOTE=melidasaur]
I do find that many Americans, when abroad, act like spoiled brats because things aren't the same as they are in the US. Hello! That's why you travel - to experience new things... There were numerous occasions when I was quited tempted to burn my passport and renounce my citizenship because of boorish American behavior. Moral of the story - if you act like an ass, regardless what country you're from, people won't like you.
Yes, this is the point I was getting around to. :thumbsup:
Buy someone a pint, and you have a friend for life.
Aw shucks, we're not that easy are we? :)
Hmm methinks the restaurant issue needs clearing up. Depending on the type of establishment you frequent, the food is slower for one of the following two reasons:
- We actually cook food to order over here, rather than prick two holes in the film and stick it in the microwave for 3 minutes;
- The waitress didn't understand your order, thought you said 'Duck Liver Parfait' not a 'ten buck steak'; the scones are burning and the chef (drunk) has dropped your meal twice (already) and keeps having to re-do it.
Aw shucks, we're not that easy are we? :)
Hmm methinks the restaurant issue needs clearing up. Depending on the type of establishment you frequent, the food is slower for one of the following two reasons:
- We actually cook food to order over here, rather than prick two holes in the film and stick it in the microwave for 3 minutes;
- The waitress didn't understand your order, thought you said 'Duck Liver Parfait' not a 'ten buck steak'; the scones are burning and the chef (drunk) has dropped your meal twice (already) and keeps having to re-do it.
I think the service is slower for a good reason... they want you to take your time, hang out, have an overall pleasurable experience. Unlike here - get in, get out, get on with your life. I don't mind it... it actually forces you to make pleasant conversation with your dining companions. God forbid people actually talk to each other.
Catwoman, where in England are you? I'm curious to see if I've been there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by melidasaur
Buy someone a pint, and you have a friend for life.
Aw shucks, we're not that easy are we?
.....ummm....yes? Well.....depending on the pint of course :guinness:
I am so glad you enjoyed being in England Melidasaur. Friends of mine who have visited America tell me they were made to feel very welcome over there, it's nice to know that works both ways.
everybody's that easy! Worldwide phenom---it's great! :beer: = :heartpump:
Not me, I don't like beer.
...........You could win me over with a pint of tea.....
cream tea, DanaC? :) What'll you have, jinx? vodka rocks?
ahhhh *sighs* Cream Tea in a little tea shop in some narrow little village on a slightly warm summer's day. Now that's England
What'll you have, jinx? vodka rocks?
Cosmopolitan please. And keep 'em comin'... :D
But please, most of us are not stupid enough to blame the average Joe (see how we adapt your terminology - imitation is the highest form of flattery) for political and world events.
See, you can do it when you crave nylons and chocolate. :D
speaking of which----did you see the Simpson's episode where Abe was the father of a female Homer only she was born of an English woman during WWII?
Homer said it all when he declared to the Queen that we are England's children and so is Canada---though, Canada has never had a boyfriend, I'm just sayin'...
Catwoman, where in England are you? I'm curious to see if I've been there.
Grew up in Devon, now living in Bournemouth on the South Coast. Not a bad little town, a somewhat transient population consisting of students and holiday makers, but within 1/2 hour of the New Forest which has just become a National Park and only an hour or so from London. Spend most of my weekends in the forest where the sight of ponies wandering round amongst the houses and pubs, wild fallow and red deer and beautiful birds of prey are pretty much the norm. I sometimes forget how lucky I am.
Aw shucks, we're not that easy are we?
.....ummm....yes? Well.....depending on the pint of course
mmmmm..... Champion.... Tanglefoot... Black Sheep... Hobgoblin.... mmmmm
ahhhh *sighs* Cream Tea in a little tea shop in some narrow little village on a slightly warm summer's day. Now that's England
mmmmm.... tea.... cream.... scones.... jam...... summer.... mmmmmm
Went to some lovely little villages in Yorkshire Dana. The wheel came off our van (yes, while we were driving) in Hawes so spent a few days there (after fixing it ourselves on the road... AA my arse) and (apart from the obligatory Wensleydale trip) we ventured out to do the Three Peak Challenge (Whernside, Pennyghent, Ingleborough), ended up camping on Whernside which was really scary, trying to keep thoughts of wild moor cats and Yorkshire Rippers at bay. Overall impression of the Dales (sadly didn't get to the North York Moors) was very good: some excellent pubs, top notch beer and would definitely visit again. :thumbsup:
See, you can do it when you crave nylons and chocolate. :D
:confused: I don't understand. Am I missing something very simple? I hate it when I do that.
Woohoo!! My family was born and raised Manchestarian, but my Aunt, Uncle and their children went to Paignton, and I spent several months there in my teenage years. It was gorgeous!! They owned a B&B in Torquay. I found the people MUCH friendlier in The tri-cities region than Cambridgeshire.
Ahhh Manchester, my spiritual home. I am originally of Mancunian stock but have defected over the border to Yorkshire. I now live in the foothills of the Peninne Mountains.
Catwoman, that list of beers reads like my perfect saturday night :P Add a large glass of Waggledance and I am in seventh heaven. The area you visited is gorgeous ! If you ever find yourself on this side of the Pennines again I can heartily recommend a walk around Gordale Scar and a visit to Bolton Abbey ( 12th century semi intact and still used abbey)
One of the things I adore about Yorkshire ( and Lancashire come to think about it) are the placenames. You can really see the Danish heritage in the names.
Onyx, people in Cambridgeshire dont like foreigners .....by foreigners I mean people not from Cambridgeshire. :P Or perhaps I am being unfair.....maybe that's my own prejudice ...... Being born in the north gives one an innate disdain for southerners and vice versa:P Unless we're in the company of strangers at which point we unite in our xenophobia
Grew up in Devon.....
:confused: I don't understand. Am I missing something very simple? I hate it when I do that.
Catwoman--where abouts in Devon?? I am a hopeless Hughes/Plath junkie. They lived in North Tawton, near Exeter. I believe Hughes' widow, Carol, still lives at Court Green.
I think xoxoxoBruce is referring to how the American GI's of WWII woo'ed the English girls; chocolate and nylon stockings for their legs! :)
Phew, while since I've been here. Never seen anything like that article but I've seen plenty of full of it half pissed yanks getting verbally bitchslapped after mouthing off in some of the city's better bars, always a good laugh.
The amount of brits here seems to be going though the roof.
Phew, while since I've been here. Never seen anything like that article but I've seen plenty of full of it half pissed yanks getting verbally bitchslapped after mouthing off in some of the city's better bars, always a good laugh.
The amount of brits here seems to be going though the roof.
London or the Cellar? :D Good to see you, Jag!
Onyx, people in Cambridgeshire dont like foreigners .....by foreigners I mean people not from Cambridgeshire. :P Or perhaps I am being unfair.....maybe that's my own prejudice ...... Being born in the north gives one an innate disdain for southerners and vice versa:P Unless we're in the company of strangers at which point we unite in our xenophobia
The only people I know in Cambridgeshire are foreigners... in fact, most people who live in Cambridge proper are foreign.
Cellar, I'm sick of London already and I haven't even managed to bribe a BT engineer to connect my phoneline before the sun starts expanding and swallowing the earth in a firey demise.
Cellar, I'm sick of London already and I haven't even managed to bribe a BT engineer to connect my phoneline before the sun starts expanding and swallowing the earth in a firey demise.
See? Switzerland wasn't as bad as you thought. I am eagerly awaiting a return reply on my asylum request from my Aunt just in case things go sour in November. So how do you get on the Net? Broadband? Cable? The University?
Net cafes and uni for now, broadband whenever BT get sorted. London's good fun but the weather is going to get me down. Good luck with the asylum, there's a referendum about to come up over easing up citizenship requirements that looks like passing, I"m sure they'll be willing to take skilled political refugees.
Not at all Toad to answer your leading question, phrased a bit like the infamous 'Are you still beating your wife?' I hooted when I read that article which is, and take it from a Londoner, tripe and onions from start to finish. People on London busses DO NOT JOIN IN ANYTHING. Ever. I was in London this past weekend and went shopping with a friend in the Greenwich Craft Market, five minutes walk from the Cutty Sark dry dock. We went for lunch in the Meeting House restaurant and shared a table with a delightful family on holiday from Chicago who told us they were having the holiday of a lifetime and only wish they had made it here before. They were bowled over by the friendly reception they have recieved wherever they've been. I was there having this conversation, I think the article you pointed us to Toad is bunkum. Prats writing and publishing trouble making crap like that, are trying it on. On a recent TV programme here an American comedian said that the moment it suits the people of the US to stop needing an English theme park the US will nuke the UK as practice. We know it's rubbish and it got a laugh. I personally suggest you ignore the other piece.
Hello to all the good people of Britain. So sad to see so much hatred on this and other u.k. boards I have read. Regarding the London Guardian e-mail campaign in Ohio and the nasty replys by many people I can only say please do not judge all americans by the statements of a few idiots. Safe to say that despite our many differences over the Iraq war(I am a republican and support the war ,while most brits do not) the majority of americans,myself included, have always felt love and respect for the british people. Bush will probably be re-elected for reasons other than the war.(taxes,farm policy, jobs,etc.) so please don't think we americans have all lost our minds.While Bush is far from perfect, John Kerry is an absolute joke. As a member of the u.s. senate for the past 20 years he has done little to nothing and during the campaign has changed his position on every issue almost daily,and don't even get me started on his loud mothed wife! Imagine what the Heinz family must have thought when John Heinz brought that piece of work home to meet the family! Well,I've rambled on long enough,just wanted to let you all know that not all americans are jerks,most of us DO realize what a great and true friend we have in Britain,and we thank you for your friendship. I hope to visit your beautiful country someday. God bless and peace to all in the u.k.
I can only say please do not judge all americans by the statements of a few idiots.
For those citizens of the UK and other nations who frequent this (American based) board, I would like to second this sentiment.
I am a republican and support the war ,while most brits do not) the majority of americans,myself included, have always felt love and respect for the british people. Bush will probably be re-elected for reasons other than the war.(taxes,farm policy, jobs,etc.) so please don't think we americans have all lost our minds.
I'm too tired to rant. For someone oozing love and respect, he certainly has a thoughtful opinion of Senator and Mrs. Kerry. He sounds like Rush Limbaugh when he's off his meds.
I think he's right on the money on the Kerry issue ... for both of them.
I'm just trying to figure out how John Heinz kept Teresa off camera all those years ...
It's pretty amazing that Wolf has a problem with women who speak their mind...
So sad to see so much hatred on this and other u.k. boards I have read.
What hatred? I don't know a single brit on this board that has spouted
hatred. Frustration is probably a better word. Can you not understand our contempt at your support of an unashamedly homophobic, trigger happy president that justifies war with rhetoric and does not understand the crucial paradox of a 'war on terror'? And your reasons for voting Dubya? Tax cuts? "Homeland security"? God that's selfish. You support war? You wouldn't if it was happening in your back yard. Your childrens' heads blown off because Iraq is scared of you. The only reason you support the war Bob is because you believe it will make the world safer, you've fallen for the rhetoric. It's not safe in Iraq. Or does that not count as 'the world'? Is America the world?
I would say the same to any Brit that supports the war. I would say the same to Tony Blair. Unfortunately Brits can't vote against Bush, but you can. That's why I may feel more frustration towards you than a fellow Brit.
Now, the above is not directed towards all Americans, but to you, personally, based on your post. By supporting Bush you are helping to perpetuate that stereotype you so protest - that American's are selfish, scared, patriotic, ignorant.
But hang on one second. Who can blame you for being ignorant if all the information you have access to is spun sugar from a president bleeting the buzz words of success and safety? And you are no different to us here in England that are fed exactly the same lines, just through a stiff upper lip rather than rousing hyperbole.
I think what the British don't like is that you are honest about your pride in your country, your desire for more money/less tax, your American dream. We're just more discreet, we vote Tory sorry New Labour because it provides the best deal for ME. We're all the same.
So how can I accuse you of being ignorant, selfish? I am just the same. I don't know anything about war yet I oppose it; I've never been to America yet I think I know it's people. I have a lot to learn.
But at the same time, there is something that just feels
wrong about war, about pain. Of course, survival of the fittest - you would kill rather than be killed, we all would. But what if the threat is not real? The other guy's gun is not loaded, he just says it is. What if he just wants your attention, wants to be heard, and this is the only way he knows how?
Do you still shoot, even though you don't know?
I think, sadly, the answer is yes. Which is why we will always have wars, unless we start
listening to each other. The words peace and understanding are over-used but I think applicable here.
So we don't hate Americans. I don't hate Americans. I hate war, fascism (for want of a better word) and people who do not listen. Your government has a habit of all of the above, and your implicit support of this is what some Brits (and other countries) may protest. Do you understand?
Bush will probably be re-elected for reasons other than the war.(taxes,farm policy, jobs,etc.) so please don't think we americans have all lost our minds.
Only certain Americans.
It's pretty amazing that Wolf has a problem with women who speak their mind...
It's all dependent on whether they are in it or out of it at the time ...
It's all dependent on whether they are in it or out of it at the time ...
What? So you have some problem with the out-of-mind challenged? We have the right to be as vocal about our insanity as the rest of America does (and is)! :D
It's all dependent on whether they are in it or out of it at the time ...
And who decides that? You?
I'm a professional.
Don't try this at home.
We've got our own Krauthammer here!
Hello all,sorry,I didn't mean to start such a slobberknocker! I only meant that bush will probably be re-elected due to domestic issues and that the war is not the only issue in this election. I AM a person who "oozes with love and respect" but if YOU had to listen to john kerry and his dead mint broom jockey wife for the past six months see how kind You would feel! (lol) Catwoman,very good post,you have given me some food for thought,although I don't think you fully grasp why many americans feel the way we do about the war in iraq. I live 3 hours drive from new york city and know unless we do something to take out these terrorists and nations that support them it is only a matter of time before a nuke goes off in times square. I am 19 and honestly dont think i'll live to see my 21st birthday. I would probably be in iraq now myself if health problems hadn't kept me out of the military.( I tried to enlist on sept.12,2001.,but was turned down) war is an awful thing that no one wants,but many americans feel we are in this for our very survival. sadly,I think it will happen here no matter what we do,there are just too many of the terrorists out there to stop them all.
I think it will happen here no matter what we do,there are just too many of the terrorists out there to stop them all.
Don't know, Bush hasn't tried yet. :eyebrow:
sadly,I think it will happen here no matter what we do,there are just too many of the terrorists out there to stop them all.
Yeah, they're called politicians. :eek:
Hello all
this is a first for me this tin-ta-net(brit joke) thing can be a very good read when working night, Right off we go!!!!!!
I need to put a arm around bobfromamerica and tell him that its OK everything will be allright, done watch tv for a week and the world is a better place belive me (yes i now i cant spell im dyslexic) and iraq has nothing to do with Terrorists, we had terrorists at one point called the IRA. they bombed manchester my brother and sister where living they at the time, shit happens (as you lot say) dont let it run your life. bush will have you thinking that around every corner some evildoer is waiting! dont go laying down your life because some bloke in a funny hat and grey beard is pissed off, let face it theres no Terrorists breaking down your door bob! and if you think about it bob, the word terror is what they are trying to do, scare you with terror and it sounds like they are wining. your going to live to be a old man bob because the socalled terrorists dont what you they what your goverment.So you have 2 choices Laugh or Cry its up to you. one last thing Catwoman sound a bit of a brainbox if you aks me!!
Welcome Spray from Sheffield, good first post. (United or Wednesday? When I was a young one I lived in S10, the Hallamshire area.)
I need to put a arm around bobfromamerica and tell him that its OK everything will be allright, done watch tv for a week
Bwahahahahahahahahahhahaha!! :lol2:
Welcome to the Cellar, Spray :thumbsup:
Welcome Spray from Sheffield, good first post. (United or Wednesday? When I was a young one I lived in S10, the Hallamshire area.)
this is wired i work at the hallamshire hospital underfrog and a bit of an owls fan dont get to go to the matches that much (job and small child stop me).which is good caus they are £20m in det and playing crap.when did you live in sheffield it chanced abit over the last 2to3 year gone all cosmopolitan,cafe and bars going up all over the place the people dont change, still down to earth northerns. i see you lived in the good part of shef,i started in the crap side Parson cross but drag meself up and out of the gutter to nether edge. if you tell me where you lived i will take some photo and put them up mi old china ,you can have a walk down memory lane? o thanks for the welcome xoxoxoBruce ,
back to the tread ive been to the states drove all around new england flu back home from boston 2 day before the nutters jumped the planes,that was scary, one experince i remenber is going in a shop (store) and the bloke behind the till thought i was german this not a very good thing to say to a englishman :eyebrow: so i asked if he was a canadian (to even up the score) i dont now where im going with this so im going to shut up!!!!
Bob dont forget to get shut of the tv!!!!! and read a book.i would recomend 1984 by George Orwell if you cannot find it i will send it you
one last thing i hope kerry wins (sorry bush fans but i look at bush and think mmmmmmmm theres somethin not quite right there!!!!)
Funny, some of us here think the same about Kerry.
I probably have a spare cup of punctuation I can lend you.
I probably have a spare cup of punctuation I can lend you.[/QUOTE]
no thanks ive got a cup of unpuctuation all ready
I lived there in 1977-78 when it was Full Monty country... visited last in 1992. Went to Tapton school and regularly took the 60 bus downtown to see the Blades. My step-dad at the time had a grant to compose music for the Grimethorpe Colliery band so we were there on a government grant.
Hey Guys.
Just out of curiosity, I was wondering if you could for the most part tell the difference between a Canadian and an American's accent. I ask this because I plan on visiting London in the coming weeks, and from reading the posts on this site, am somewhat worried that I may experience negative remarks or sentiments from locals.
Welcome to the Cellar, hockleyman. :)
Depends on which Canuck accent your speaking, eh?
Wear a hockey cap and sew a maple leaf on your coat. If they still run away in terror, then you'll know they think you're American.
A couple of years ago my wife and I were baby sitting some collage students, and in typical British Upper Class fashion I was reminded that as an American I could not possibly understand culture or the world in general. I had to remind the brat that we Americans kicked thier asses twice, and bailed them out of 2 world wars. That may have been ugly of me but I had enough of his tirade on the stuped American. I personally have had very wonderful times when abroad, and cherish the memorys. People that have problems overseas usuly bring them on themselfs.
It's not that Americans can't understand the cultures of the world in general. It's that they don't care, unless it involves a war that the Americans won.
Hey Guys.
Just out of curiosity, I was wondering if you could for the most part tell the difference between a Canadian and an American's accent. I ask this because I plan on visiting London in the coming weeks, and from reading the posts on this site, am somewhat worried that I may experience negative remarks or sentiments from locals.
Say "SHEH-jule," "PROH-sess" and "uh-BOOT" and you should be fine. :)
From my experiences with Canadians, they sound like Americans with some different word pronunciations...except those from the Maritimes, where the accents seem more pronounced (like in New England).
Something tells me that there is a fundamental difference of approach that might explain the frictional misunderstanding that sometimes/often develops between our two cultures.
Put simply, Americans seem to readily embrace systems and processes that improve the way goods are delivered. We Brits tend to think that while these might be good ideas, it is someone else's job to find out if this is really true and to make them work - it is certainly not ours! So the scenario is set for instant dischord
For example, you give us fast food, and we will cock it up monumentally. Not for us the desire to make things happen and to make them happen even better by looking at where we have gone wrong and then improve upon that. No, we would rather gripe at the fact that we have to open another till (point of sale) putting ourselves to all that trouble, for God's sake, just because the bloody customers can't wait a few minutes. Hence we stick to our old quaint ways of waiting on tables, writing down orders on pieces of paper in illegible handwriting, getting the orders mixed-up and then passing them to a cook (chef perhaps) who has no idea how to organise a kitchen (I'm here to cook!) - again, that's someone else's job!
So, poor cousins, you will wait interminably for a meal that ends up half cold when you get it and probably wasn't what you ordered in the first place. The reason you wait so long is because it's being sent back half a dozen times before it reaches your table, in a vain attempt by all those involved in this short yet over-complicated supply chain to get it right, sort-of, eventually.
So as an American, you must wonder at this novel way of conducting both business and life. But at least you know now why it is so expensive - we cannot possibly introduce any cost-saving efficiencies without adding another layer of bureacracy and associated incompetence. This even explains the over-expensive and overlong taxi ride - if the driver isn't going to see you again what's the harm in padding out the journey and adding to the fare. And the fare structure isn't structured in any case to encourage the driver to go for the quick and less costly option (ie wouldn't it make sense/be better to encourage doing three shorter journeys than one long one in the same time scale?) that would prove more attractive to the customer.
We as visitors to your shores will never really appreciate the US style of service and the way it is structured (I, for one, have never got to grips with the tips and taxes thing, but I am sure it is a logical extension of the compartmentalised approach to processes and life). Our arguments in support: how can you possibly get it right in so short a time? - surely you are cutting corners that can only result in a poorer end-product? We don't understand, you see, and when we don't understand we think there is something fishy going on and that then breeds distrust.
We have the same trouble with our attitude to the French only in this case they they are even slower and more resistant to change than us, and, to top it all, we have an even greater language problem. That prompts the conclusion that God knows how the Americans would find the experience of dealing with the French way of life.
Of course, being a laid-back sort of fella, none of this bothers me in the slightest, and I merely observe from a safe and unperturbed distance.
so, to paraphrase: Brits hate us because of the Big Mac. That's totally fair. It's ruined my life, too. :(
That Catwoman person annoyed me -- I see she's not visited this thread for over a year. Very purblind sort of creature.
She makes the usual error, too common in the Old World: she doesn't see the importance, nor the value to her personally, of breaking totalitarians by any means necessary, or indeed any means imaginable, if you want to get fanatical about it: by any means imaginable is the warcry of the fanatic. Western Europe certainly likes democracy, but do they fully understand it? They keep getting socialism into the mixture, and they suffer for it. But that's for another thread.
What these people are missing is that with totalitarianism broken and discredited, there's more room for indigenous democracies to grow and to flourish. And what do we see now? -- too damned much reluctance to uproot the weeds of totalitarianism and cast them upon the fires. After the fires, the ash heap.
Admittedly, we puzzle the world, or at least certain swatches of it, yet matters are simple to explain. We Americans understand we are locked in a war, howbeit never so peculiar. We are determinedly prosecuting this war. Some of us could really stand to offer this effort greater support. The ones who aren't doing this generally misbehave as they do because they think a Republican Administration is a greater enemy than a bunch of non-democrats who labor under a fever-dream of a Caliphate, with one of their number as Caliph. Their own words declare them totalitarians, and the actions of their friends condemn them even more. These are the enemy, dammit, not the Republican Party. The unwillingness of certain parties to acknowledge this point calls their wisdom sharply into question, and their determined unwillingness says they are not merely unwise but crazy as well.
Dealing with such obdurate blockheads is very frustrating. If you ain't gung ho, what are you but a dictator-lover? Anybody need to guess if I'm a dictator-lover?
Our self-made, self-declared enemies are enemies pretty much of everything worthwhile in mankind, and all mankind must hasten to hunt and hang all of these verkrampte imbeciles. Certain people, however, display an embarrassing reluctance to do this and excise these cancers. Take this philosophy to heart: if you aren't a representative democracy or an enlightened constitutional monarchy, you ain't shit, and as a corollary you should expect to have your bad political order exterminated and a better one erected in its place.
Well, thanks to UG, I've learned my Word of the Day!
Dealing with such obdurate blockheads is very frustrating. If you ain't gung ho, what are you but a dictator-lover? Anybody need to guess if I'm a dictator-lover?
I've pretty much given up trying to guess what you are.
Howbeit, you seem to envision democracy as 'we pick a country, destroy the goverment, and tell the people they have been liberated'.
Forgetting Saudi Arabia, which is technically an ally until we can figure out a way to remove radiation from oil, there has never been a country invaded by anyone in the past hundred years that was not 'liberated' in the view of the people doing the invading.
Another issue is that some democracies are not representative. Iraq was technically a democracy, and life was good if you were a Baathist. The fact that the goverment did not actually represent the population was irrelevent to the goverment, which had rigged the system to stay in power. Single party goverments rarely pay attention to the needs of a large majority, just enough to stay in power.
Real change comes from within. Right now the Iraqis are struggling with their goverment, partly because change was imposed on them. It would probably have been better for the US to come in to clean up a civil war than to unilaterally invade the country. In effect we tried to peddle democracy like some kind of welfare program where people just sit and wait for the check to come in the mail. As a result, the cost in lives and money continues to grow.
Having someone like you show up with a gun to liberate me without being asked would probably be the worse of two evils. The net effect would probably be similar to how the children in the MOVE and Branch Davidian compounds were liberated by the BATF and police.
As for true democracy in Iraq, we will see how many US bases remain indefinitely after the troops pull out and what happens if the representative government sends us packing and cozys up to Iran. True freedom means the freedom to make choices other people think are bad for you (or them).
Rich, here's a deep philosophical question and one I perceive you do not yet have an answer to: When is it not good to destroy totalitarian government and its inherent evils? If humans want to be and to behave like humans, dictators must die or flee the country. In any case, they must cease, desist, lay off or bugger off.
It is thinking of this kind from you that leads me to cry BS, Rich so routinely. I'll also let you know when I believe you're thinking better -- sounds fair?
When is it not good to destroy totalitarian government and its inherent evils?
When you can't replace it with something better. Anarchy is worse than dictatorship, and anarchy usually coalesces into several smaller dictatorships which are continually at war. So you end up exactly where you were, minus tens of thousands of people and billions in infrastructure.
Anarchy is not good, and I don't trust it one little bit, but dictatorship is even worse. Established dictatorship offers no hope of improvement -- as long as the dictator can dictate, life sucks for anyone not the dictator today, tomorrow, next week, next year. Suckage, on and on, without prospect of relief, let alone betterment.
We Americans, and more and more the Iraqis as well, are replacing it with something better. The antidemocrats are having no effect, and that is precisely what they deserve. This is true however fanatically you choose to believe otherwise, Monkey, for motivations that I can only see as so deranged, so evil, so inhuman, so false, so totalitarian-friendly, so brutal, so discreditable, and so stone stupid that you will never dare to air them when I'm around.
This is true however fanatically you choose to believe otherwise, Monkey, for motivations that I can only see as
[size=1]blah blah blah[/size]
that you will never dare to air them when I'm around.
Only because you'd harrangue me with some tedious faux-moralistic diatribe that does nothing but lay out your prejudices in fine detail.
I'll also let you know when I believe you're thinking better -- sounds fair?
Well, if the doctor screws up my kidney exam and ends up giving me a lobotomy, I may come around to your way of thinking. Heres hoping.
In other words, Happy Monkey, you can't meet the challenge. Understood.
I do think the less of you for that, though. This is not wholly unexpected; most of the people who really, really disagree with me also suffer from intellectual cowardice: no courage of the convictions they say they hold.
We Americans, and more and more the Iraqis as well, are replacing it with something better. The antidemocrats are having no effect, and that is precisely what they deserve. This is true however fanatically you choose to believe otherwise, Monkey, for motivations that I can only see as so deranged, so evil, so inhuman, so false, so totalitarian-friendly, so brutal, so discreditable, and so stone stupid that you will never dare to air them when I'm around.
Yes, we are replacing our government but is it better? Both you and Monkey believe in your guys and properly attribute the opposition with those defects inheirent in politicians. Right now, I have to back HM because your guys are in the ascendency and are destroying rule of law and further strengthening an already bloated executive. When Hillary wins the seat, you'll change your tune.
I think UG is a bot, working on the same principle as google translate but with freerepublic.com as the data source.
Plato got governance right.
I think UG is a bot, working on the same principle as google translate but with freerepublic.com as the data source. ...
You heard it
here first.
I have an increasingly hard time imagining you as a real person. The high handed language, the raucous exclamations of your superiority, your blanket condemnations of everyone opposed to your postion, these make for incandescent campaign rhetoric, but it is not the language thinking people use to exchange ideas. You, hmm, your posts portray you as a training bot, a sparring mannequin to sharpen my own thoughts, my own ability to articulate my ideas. That's worthwhile and I'm happy for it. But I just can't get my head around someone who contends that opposition to the death penalty is evidence of a deplorable deficit in one's commitment to human goodness. You have got to be kidding me.
You heard it here first.
OOOh, I see a Cellar Poll coming on.
Is UG a bot, a nom de troll or the alter ego of a legitimate Cellarite?
If he is a bot, what language is he written in. The disjointed arguments and circular logic would suggest something like Visual Basic, or an early version of C.
Have we ever seen Marichiko and UG in the same place at the same time?
:D Enjoy yourselves; I'll watch.
Considering it's nonsensical, I'd put my money on perl, first choice for writing weird shit bar none.
Yes, we are replacing our government but is it better? Both you and Monkey believe in your guys and properly attribute the opposition with those defects inheirent in politicians.
A Libertarian has to ask if replacing a dictator with a broadbased, representative government is
better? Astounding. How does one account for this? Are you troubled at the turbulence of this watershed period in Iraq's history? I'm not, especially not when the pro-totalitarian insurgents aren't persuading the rest of Iraq to go back into the thrall of a dictatorship.
Right now, I have to back HM because your guys are in the ascendency and are destroying rule of law and further strengthening an already bloated executive.
Back HM? What's to back? The man wussed out when I challenged him on his motivations for opposing this war against some quite icky tyrannically inclined mass, and repetitive, murderers. Destroying the rule of law? -- matter of opinion, and the opinions are most tightly held by the fringy partisans. I noted and still note that this Administration takes the Bill of Rights as a guide to its behavior, rather than the previous Administration's attitude, manifest in its actions, that the BoR was a stumbling block to its ambitions. Which leads me to my next point, inasmuch as she was closely involved and palpably helped to shape that Administration's manner of governance:
When Hillary wins the seat, you'll change your tune.
Hillary will never occupy the Oval Office as long as Americans are possessed of normal memory. This Saul Alinsky socialist would be extremely bad for the Republic, and a great ally to tyrants and one-party statists worldwide.
In other words, Happy Monkey, you can't meet the challenge. Understood.
What challenge? "Never dare air them when you're around"? If you mean around on the site, then you're obvously wrong, since you are responding to them. If you mean around in person, which is how I took it, then I would absolutely not debate with you face to face. Your overbearing, insulting, bullyish tone is only barely bearable in text form, and would be impossible to deal with in person.
Your overbearing, insulting, bullyish tone is only barely bearable in text form, and would be impossible to deal with in person.
I beg to differ, actually it might be a pleasure to deal with in person. :footpyth:
A Libertarian has to ask if replacing a dictator with a broadbased, representative government is better? Astounding. How does one account for this? Are you troubled at the turbulence of this watershed period in Iraq's history? I'm not, especially not when the pro-totalitarian insurgents aren't persuading the rest of Iraq to go back into the thrall of a dictatorship.
Urbane Guerrilla has it. this simple universal ideal is easy to follow: a government elected by the people is best FOR the people. to deny this to anyone in the world is a crime in itself and if we must be the ones to fix it, then we should be willing to take on the challenge. (we are, after all, one of the few powers in this world that has the ability to step up to the mission!) we would be so much better off if our country had manned up enough in the 90s to take care of so many of the world's problems. our problems today i assure you, would be almost nothing if the last "president" had done his job.
the sad part is that "pro-totalitarian insurgents" seems to have spread to "opinionated american leftists". i swear that there are more people in our country that want the dictatorship to return. it is disgusting. are you against this war? try LIVING in one of these countries we are working hard to free. you would change your mind in a heartbeat, i'm sure.
Hillary in office? best laught i've had allll day. :lol:
A Libertarian has to ask if replacing a dictator with a broadbased, representative government is better? Astounding. How does one account for this? Are you troubled at the turbulence of this watershed period in Iraq's history? I'm not, especially not when the pro-totalitarian insurgents aren't persuading the rest of Iraq to go back into the thrall of a dictatorship.
There is one country I'm concerned with, the United States of America. You stupidly argue for totalitarianism here, while deluding yourself into believing you hold the high moral ground because you want to kill Arabs. One day you idiots will wake up with another nut job Democrat in the White House and piss and moan about rule of law and I'll be there with you but I'll know you have no conscience.
Urbane Guerrilla has it. this simple universal ideal is easy to follow: a government elected by the people is best FOR the people.
Sweet Lord, theres two of them now.
Anyway, I don't recall the Iraqi people electing GWB as the person they wanted to start a 'crusade', invade their country, and kill 10,000 or more civilians in order to 'free' them.
Noone claimed the invasion was about freedom. The invasion was about non-existent WMD's, or possibly oil, or possibly military bases. Noone voted to free the Iraqi people by bombing them.
There is one country I'm concerned with, the United States of America. You stupidly argue for totalitarianism here, while deluding yourself into believing you hold the high moral ground because you want to kill Arabs. One day you idiots will wake up with another nut job Democrat in the White House and piss and moan about rule of law and I'll be there with you but I'll know you have no conscience.
I weep for you, Griff. I really do. You're right, of course, but in a heroically tragic way. I'm so sorry. *shakes head*
Well hell, RichL, the last national election they had before we got there only had Saddam on the ballot. Removal of Saddam as a ballot choice seems not to have inspired any Ba'athist support. :D
Yeah, Griff's more selfish than I think a Libertarian ought to be -- that's the chief friction point we two have. It seems to me self-evident that a libertarian country is going to prosper better in an at least generally libertarian world, and just as self-evident that human liberty is not inherently the exclusive property of the United States. Call it a PNAC influence on my thinking if you wish, though PNAC basically just says a lot of the kind of things I've been thinking for some time. Griff, I think, is drinking too much of Radar's Kool-Aid.
Now for Griff's other point, what I argue for is winning the war, not totalitarianism at home. The two are not to be confused. I argue for the chainsawing of totalitarians who assail us, without the least reference to their ethnicity. That they are totalitarians is enough, for this libertarian heart.
If you mean around in person, which is how I took it, then I would absolutely not debate with you face to face. Your overbearing, insulting, bullyish tone is only barely bearable in text form, and would be impossible to deal with in person.
So you're still scared of setting forth your weak ideas in opposition to my strong ones. Perhaps you'd manage a little more bravery if you adopted better ideas.
Possible sources for these, which I dip into from time to time: National Review, American Spectator, any of Ann Coulter's books though not necessarily her columns -- these are at least provocative if nothing else; Commentary, about anything relevant from Regnery Publishing House -- at least for seeing how the other half of America thinks; sundry other books such as J. Neil Schulman's
Stopping Power, and Stephen P. Halbrook's
That Every Man Be Armed. Anything by Robert Heinlein, from his early juveniles to his late adult stuff. Possibly the Bible as well -- even the most secular person can sift some useful philosophy from these tales. You don't have to be superstitious to get it.
Since you can't much impeach my substance, you decide to object to my tone. Not unexpected, but if you want not to be overborne, the remedy is simple: don't write fatuity. That's really the only thing I expect or demand from anyone here. And don't complain if and when I call you on it.
So you're still scared of setting forth your weak ideas in opposition to my strong ones.
That's what I had been doing, until you started your "oooh, you're so scared" routine. But congratulations, you've worn me out through attrition. I'm not going to respond to every single time you post the exact same "strong" ideas. If you look back, I suspect you'll find I already have responded to them the last time you said the exact same thing.
Well, you ARE a big pussy and all. ;)
Mother's, don't let your babies grow up to be UGs. :headshake
Mother's, don't let your babies grow up to be UGs. :headshake
No chance of that ... I'm British! :lol:
What? There's no UGs in Briton? :eyebrow:
What? There's no UGs in Briton? :eyebrow:
Jingoism was invented in England.
The term originated in Britain, introduced by Irish music-hall singer G. H. MacDermott at the London Pavilion during the diplomatic crisis of 1878, when Britain's Prime Minister Benjamin Disraeli convinced the Tsar to retreat from Bulgaria, restoring it and Macedonia to Ottoman rule. The chorus of a song by MacDermott and G. W. Hunt commonly sung in pubs at the time gave birth to the term. The lyrics had the chorus: <dl><dd>We don't want to fight</dd><dd>But, by Jingo, if we do,</dd><dd>We've got the ships,</dd><dd>We've got the men,</dd><dd>We've got the money, too.
</dd></dl>
What? There's no UGs in Briton?
The
British National Front shares some similarities with Libertarians, but some of their agenda makes Libertarians--and Republicans--look incredibly good.
Rich, don't be too chary of jingoism -- the witless Left uses it as a swearword to apply to anyone to the right of Hillary at her most pseudohawkish (no, I don't trust her hawk cries -- she's posing) on the assumption that they can con anyone into believing that anybody patriotic must also be mindless. What gets the Left sandbagged frequently is their habit of assuming what ain't so -- and then they get left in the dust with their pants around their ankles, irrelevant and ineffectual again.
Not wanting to be irrelevant or ineffectual, I've adopted -- from, oh, about age eight -- a different kind of philosophy of life. Carrying on about "jingoism" says more about the speaker than the recipient. The dorks for whom all patriotism is blind or irrational -- these people have absolutely nothing to contribute, and should really move to the caves of Tora Bora in pursuit of the Secret of Life. They could use a life, let alone a secret.
The dorks for whom all patriotism is blind or irrational
You've got it wrong. It's not that all patriotism is blind or irrational. It's that blind or irrational patriotism is bad.
True, HM, and clearly thought -- but I don't have it wrong: the dorks fill me with the urge to deprecate. Those guys are permanently wrong. They don't have to be -- but they insist on it. Not merely stupid, but repellent as well -- two strikes. What's the third, active treason? Not something I'm in any danger of committing, but I'm none too sure about these dorks.
[Maybe on topic] And what the hell is wrong with Harry Belafonte these last few years, and this last twelvemonth in particular? He's old enough to know what a tyranny is -- yet he confuses the Bush Administration with one. WTF? He's old enough to know better than that. Has he been eating out of aluminum cookware for too many decades, or should he just go in for an MRI?
Harry been eating six foot, seven foot, eight foot, bunch o' bananas. Now he is one.