Kerry's Campaign
Is it just me, or is Kerry running the worst campaign since Bob Dole? All I hear about in his ads is how George Bush says things are good and actually things suck. Might be true, John, but that's NOT going to win you an election. You CAN tap into that sort of negative feeling -- Clinton did, against Bush I -- but not by simply stoking it.
Riiiiight. And GWB doesn't use a similar tactic? It's all negativity, all the time!
I recently read the infamous Al Franken book, "Lies..."---now. Can anybody defend the republicans? Lookout?? And, you know, I love ya, baby!
Other things that don't help: "2 tours in Vietnam". ( A tour was 12-13 months) Silver star with "V" device (non existant). 3 Purple hearts with no hospital time (Extremely unlikely). Not to mention defaming every Vietnam Vet that ever served. If he would put forth at least one solution to just one of Bush's mistakes I might even listen to him for a change.
russotto,
Well your right, things aren't good, but GW has 9/11 to counter any critisim. The politics of fear, it's as simple as that. His father wasn't able to mask a slumping economy with a international war on "terror", as long as this persists, there will be glaring inequities that will be swept under the carpet. If this was Dick Nixon, he would have been in jail by now.
- Walrus
Riiiiight. And GWB doesn't use a similar tactic? It's all negativity, all the time!
I recently read the infamous Al Franken book, "Lies..."---now. Can anybody defend the republicans? Lookout?? And, you know, I love ya, baby!
defend the republicans? not likely, they are politicians too. i generally hold some common ideals with the republican party, but that doesn't mean i agree with all of their policies or their tactics in achieving goals.
i simply stand by my statement that i believe GWB, while not ideal, is a better choice than John Kerry for the next 4 years. so unless someone comes up with a better option, that is the way i have to vote.
I don't know about the vietnam stuff, the medals are questionable but hell, maybe he did defame the veterans but they fucking deserved it, that war makes abu ghraib look like a kids playground, what was done in the name of 'freedom and democracy' was disgusting and good on him for having the balls to say so.
He is however, running a shithouse campaign and Karl Rove is kicking his ass. Bush, Kerry, I don't think it'll make much difference either way.
As we get closer to the election, I get more and more bummed out. This has to be the worst choice offered to the voters in the history of the country.
Other things that don't help: "2 tours in Vietnam". ( A tour was 12-13 months)
He started out in the Navy, then requested assignment in-country.
Silver star with "V" device (non existant).
He didn't claim it - it was in his records. A typo, presumably. And no, he didn't write his own records.
3 Purple hearts with no hospital time (Extremely unlikely).
It's more likely than a well-off person with several avenues available to avoid service volunteering for service instead. And yet, both are true.
Not to mention defaming every Vietnam Vet that ever served.
That's silly. He attended a conference of vets, and related their stories to Congress. No serious person denies that Vietnam was fought dirty (there were a number of convictions), but Kerry put the blame squarely on the people who put the soldiers into the situation.
If he would put forth at least one solution to just one of Bush's mistakes I might even listen to him for a change.
Look here, on the left hand menubar, under "Plan for America". There are several headings, for various issues.
maybe he did defame the veterans but they fucking deserved it, that war makes abu ghraib look like a kids playground,
said the individual who wasn't born yet and is unlikely to ever hold a weapon on another person. come jag, you are too smart for that BS to stick in your head. no person who wears the uniform honorably deserved to hear Kerry and others drag them through the mud. atrocities happened, fine. but not everyone was involved and they didn't all deserve the posturing that kerry and others subjected them too.
This has to be the worst choice offered to the voters in the history of the country.
sadly enough, you are probably right.
I've spent enough time in Vietnam not know what it would have been like and spent enough time looking at what came out of it to know that anyone that went there should feel a deep sense of guilt to what they inflicted on the poor souls that lived there. Maybe not everyone was involved but clearly it was systematic and common to say the least. Mai Lai was one of hundreds of similar incidents, not to mention things like Agent Orange (ever seen a kid with his chin fused to his breastbone? look him in the eye and tell him they served honorably) and the entire Phoenix operation.
Kerry's campaign is struggling, because he has yet to clearly articulate differences between him and Bush. I think the upcoming debates will help him. If he performs the same way he did against Paul O'Neil, he'll probably get a boost.
Kerry didn't say everyone was involved. He said it was widespread, and related a number of firsthand accounts to Congress.
i will tell anyone who wore the uniform, picked up their weapon and did their job without deilberately harming innocents that they served honorably. it is the job of young men (and now women) to fight and die for what they are told. to besmirch their good name because of a calling you couldn't possibly hope to understand is wrong.
it is the job of young men (and now women) to fight and die for what they are told.
Precisely. That's why Kerry was so pissed off at the US government, and not the soldiers.
I've spent enough time in Vietnam not know what it would have been like and spent enough time looking at what came out of it to know that anyone that went there should feel a deep sense of guilt to what they inflicted on the poor souls that lived there. Maybe not everyone was involved but clearly it was systematic and common to say the least. Mai Lai was one of hundreds of similar incidents, not to mention things like Agent Orange (ever seen a kid with his chin fused to his breastbone? look him in the eye and tell him they served honorably) and the entire Phoenix operation.
For all of the Vietnam Veterans and especially myself, YOU DON"T KNOW SHIT! Systematic and common? You, sir, are out of your Socialist mind.
Please name and document at least a few of "the other hundreds" of incidents besides the Mai Lai abberation.
Oh, And Agent Orange did not discriminate on newborns, just ask a few of my buddies who are still alive and passed their genes on to thier kids.
And when the Wahabist Muslims start terrorizing all of Europe, don't call on our troops to bail your sorry asses out again.
They're already trying in Europe, I don't see how the US could possibly help there, they can't seem to protect themselves very well let alone anyone else. Not sure how the socialist tag comes into it. Common? Hell yea, particularly in the DMZ, 'freefire zones', seems the general idea was if it moved, shoot it. Spent plenty of time talking to older types in villages inland from Da Nang. Thanh Phong ring a bell? Countless incidents, particularly around '69 in the delta when they were herding village after village into saigon. Abberation? It's well known a policy of shoot first ask questions later was in place.
Other things that don't help: "2 tours in Vietnam". ( A tour was 12-13 months)
Hmmm, how many tours of duty did George W. Bush have?
said the individual who wasn't born yet and is unlikely to ever hold a weapon on another person.
What does this have to do with the argument Jag is making? You are personally attacking HIM rather than debating the points he brought up. Not cool.
No, lookout's point is just but I don't think it's entirely relevant. Sure I haven't and unless something very odd happens, won't serve in any standing army (hell I've just dodged the Swiss one and the chances of combat duty there were rather low) but I don't see how that affects what happened in Vietnam. I'm sure some if not many soldiers did serve honourably but collectively, what the US military did to that country is abominable, inexcusable and to do it in the name of freedom and democracy, disgusting. Killings, rapes, tortures, summary executions, destroying entire communities, poisoning entire ecosystems and if Kerry came back an denounced his fellow soldiers for perpetrating those crimes, good on him.
i simply stand by my statement that i believe GWB, while not ideal, is a better choice than John Kerry for the next 4 years. so unless someone comes up with a better option, that is the way i have to vote.
A unilateral attack on Iran in or after 2006 is acceptable?
Hmmm, how many tours of duty did George W. Bush have?
Hmmm, interesting sidetrack, but GW isn't making his service the centerpoint of his campaign, is he?
If you believe that Bush's people weren't involved with the Swift Boat guys, you're far more trusting than is healthy in politics. And if you think that the Swifties got organized in response to Kerry's mentioning his service, you weren't paying attention. They were writing their book and attempting to recruit (sometimes fraudulently) members long before Kerry said he was reporting for duty.
Kerry needs to hire some comedians to write jokes for him.
The Republicans are experts at throwing mud with a smile on their face. If you make it sound like a joke when you smear someone, the message gets across and the public doesn't think you are an asshole.
Kerry needs to work on that as he smears Bush.
The Swift Boat thing has Karl Roves dirty little paws all over it. I wish, wholeheartedly that someone would drive the cockroach out to the middle of nowhere and cap one in the back of his head, it'd be the biggest favour you could do to world peace at this point in time.
"Hold your principles tightly, your issues loosely, and your candidates in contempt."
[QUOTE=Brianna]Riiiiight. And GWB doesn't use a similar tactic? It's all negativity, all the time!
[QUOTE]
#1: Bush is the incumbent. If his campaign and Kerry's are equally mediocre, he probably wins.
#2: Bush is NOT negative about the country. Bush is negative about Kerry. That's a crucial difference.
Kerry isn't negative about the country. He's negative about the direction Bush is pushing it.
As we get closer to the election, I get more and more bummed out. This has to be the worst choice offered to the voters in the history of the country.
No, I think that would have been either Michael Dukakis or Walter Mondale.
Kerry didn't say everyone was involved. He said it was widespread, and related a number of firsthand accounts to Congress.
I believe that Mr. Kerry testified to Congress about events that he never witnessed.
what's that word I remember seeing in Black's? ... HEARSAY. that's the one.
As far as the "V" device on his medal ... one letter is a typo. A phrase is not a typo.
I don't think that kerry has released his actual DD214's to the press or to the public ... or am I wrong? It's late, I'm tired, and too lazy to check The Smoking Gun right now ...
He was the representative from the conference. Anyone from the conference would have been relaying hearsay. Congress knew it, and if they didn't want to know, they wouldn't have called him.
No need to check Smoking Gun. The DD-214 is on
Kerry's site (pdf). People constantly complain that Kerry hasn't released his records, when you just have to look at his site. Meanwhile, the Bush records trickle out slowly in response to FOIA requests.
No, I think that would have been either Michael Dukakis or Walter Mondale.
Huh? Dukakis ran against Bush. Mondale ran against Reagan. They didn't run against each other.