Kerry takes the presidential election
I know most of the major players here and where they stand. More than a few have some great minds regarding politics, even though I strongly disagree with their leanings.
I am convinced that we are near critical mass in the US. The country is polarized more than any time than I can remember. The elections, in my opinion, will not settle any disputes or create any unity. They will further divide us all. Will one half of the voting public just stand down and accept defeat?? Not a chance, it will energize both sides to push their agendas even further, legally or illegally.
The winning team will glow with the idea that they won fair and square through the effective use of the system, and they will be wrong. The losing team will be convinced that they were somehow cheated and they need not accept the results of the contest, and they will also be wrong.
So will we be headed into a civil war? What will be the "first volley from Ft. Sumpter"? Has it already been fired? What will a civil war look like this time around? The lines are not geographic but I am convinced that there is at least as much fervor over the modern political issues as there was during the Civil War.
So here's the scenario. Kerry takes office, after a landslide victory.
What is happening to the economy? Terrorism? Jobs? Crime? How does the "mood" of the country change? What direction are we now headed with Kerry in office?
The winning team will glow with the idea that they won fair and square through the effective use of the system, and they will be wrong.
Why will they be wrong?
Kerry is as big a dumbass as Bush is. Look at his voting record and tell me what he brings to the table. He stands for nothing.
So whom do you suggest we should vote for? This election is once again trying to prove my theory that the good candidates (of both parties) get eliminated by the primaries.
Why will they be wrong?
They will be wrong in the minds of the losing team. They will claim some injustice of one kind or another and that will give them the moral highground to ignore the laws and the new leader(s)
The day after the election, no matter who wins, I will go to work, put out the trash, and go on with the rest of my life. Just like I've done after every other election. Priorities, man. I suspect most people will do the same.
Unfortunately my trash collection is on Tuesday night, so the trash will sit there for an entire week. But, tradition is important.
So whom do you suggest we should vote for? This election is once again trying to prove my theory that the good candidates (of both parties) get eliminated by the primaries.
You act as if there actually are good candidates.
A politician is inherently venal and conciliatory. Not a winning combination.
I say vote for whomever you can put up with. This new prez is going to be prez for four long years. Take a look at all possibilites (including the Indepenents, Green party, et al) and then choose which one you think you can deal with for those four years. That way if your choice wins, in those four years, you'll spend less time getting your blood pressure up over what the guy's doing because you'll know your vote counted towards the one you wanted. Personally, I think I can put up with Kerry more than I can put up with Bush at the moment, granted, I haven't really taken a good look at all the possibilties. So that might change.
What are the rules that apply if neither candidate made enough percentage to win?
Imagine a world where enough people voted for themselves or others and the Pres had to stay Pres by default. If anything could raise people's eyebrows that might do it.
What are the rules that apply if neither candidate made enough percentage to win?
Very interesting possibility TS.
[strike]I believe that all a candidate needs is a simple majority of the Electoral college, so that scenerio won't come to pass. [/strike]It's interesting that fewer and fewer people are voting while the country is supposed to be more and more divided. I'd say a majority just don't give a crap and will get their exercise putting out the trash on Tuesday instead of hiking to the polling station.
OOOPS
The candidate for president with the most electoral votes, provided that it is an absolute majority (one over half of the total), is declared president. Similarly, the vice presidential candidate with the absolute majority of electoral votes is declared vice president.
In the event no one obtains an absolute majority of electoral votes for president, the U.S. House of Representatives (as the chamber closest to the people) selects the president from among the top three contenders with each State casting only one vote and an absolute majority of the States being required to elect. Similarly, if no one obtains an absolute majority for vice president, then the U.S. Senate makes the selection from among the top two contenders for that office.
That would be a problem wouldn't it. Now that I think of it, isn't this the way the Hayes election went, ending radical reconstruction?
http://www.fec.gov/pages/ecworks.htmFor that to happen, Nader or Badnarik would actually have to take a state, and the Bush and Kerry would have to be almost tied. The former is just about impossible under the current system, so I wouldn't worry.
Shhhhh! Don't let Radar hear you say that.
I'm sure he would be the first to agree that the system has been massively tilted against third parties.
So will we be headed into a civil war? What will be the "first volley from Ft. Sumpter"? Has it already been fired? What will a civil war look like this time around? The lines are not geographic but I am convinced that there is at least as much fervor over the modern political issues as there was during the Civil War.
don't worry. most americans don't have the intestinal fortitude to pick up a weapon and go to battle over something as trivial as what they believe in.
Griff, think of it as a double, or maybe triple polarisation.
First you have the apathetic majority and then a number of rabid types on both sides.
Then you have the increasingly polarisation between democratic and republican.
Then you have the rapidly increasing wealth divide deciding where the real power lies.
It's interesting that fewer and fewer people are voting while the country is supposed to be more and more divided. I'd say a majority just don't give a crap and will get their exercise putting out the trash on Tuesday instead of hiking to the polling station.
I'm ashamed to admit that at 26 years old, this is the first time I've felt strongly enough to get out, get registered and vote. I really do hope more people are starting to feel that way, but somehow I doubt it.
i posted this on the bush side so i thought i better put it here too.
i think there would be an internal power struggle with the big players activating military forces to counteract a "terrorist attack", which is of course their own uprising. senior military officers will of course be in on it and as the calls go down the chain some branches of the military will land on either side of the conflict. civil war involving our own military without the shooters even knowing what is happening in the beginning, by the time they do it is too late. individuals and small groups (think some members of the cellar) will collect their guns, camping gear, and families and head to the hills a la Red Dawn . soon the entire nation is involved in a guerilla style civil war with 2 governments in place. the "leftist" forces will be based in washington dc and the "conservative patriots" will be based from San Antonio. WMD will not be used because everyone knows someone on the other side, but a hell of a lot of lead will fly. after enough of the existing command structure has disintegrated prominent members of the EU will see this as their chance to regain their rightful place as leaders of the world and will go to the UN asking for action against the former US to protect the world from the Nuclear weapons that are in the control of opposing factions. the UN will of course support intervention which the factions will reject. The UN/EU will send in "peacekeeping" forces who will enter the conflict as a 3rd party with all 3 sides fighting each other. russia will invade alaska for easy access to oil. japan will invade hawaii, guam, etc. Canada will slowly stretch into some of the northern tier states. eventually the UN/EU forces will realize that they can't suppress the conflict because the military forces are the least of their worries; every crazy ass american with a glock and a .22 is taking potshots at them so they say screw it and leave. the firefights will slow down as the fragmentary groups divide into regions by race and religion issues. it will calm into a cold war for awhile and someday the former US will be like the Europe of the early 20th century - many small countries on one continent.
or i might just have an overactive imagination.
__________________
I'm ashamed to admit that at 26 years old, this is the first time I've felt strongly enough to get out, get registered and vote. I really do hope more people are starting to feel that way, but somehow I doubt it.
Conversely, I vote in every election, but it doesn't matter, because I live in DC. DC will always go Democrat by a landslide, has no representation in congress, and any referendums can be overruled by Congress.
For some reason, I still vote, though.
don't worry. most americans don't have the intestinal fortitude to pick up a weapon and go to battle over something as trivial as what they believe in.
Of course not. And who would you shoot if you did? What uniform does the enemy wear? What war has been declared? That's a part of my point. The chances of a bonafide shooting war seems slim (as long as the cable doesnt go out and cigarettes n' beer are still available.) A civil cold war seems much more likely.
Imagine if (an additional) 10% of the public went lawless for one day. No organized shooting from a team standpoint just a general "I'm going to do exactly what the fuck I feel is just and what I want to do today". Law enforcement would be overwhelmed and more sweeping restrictions would be made on the general public. Let that continue for a week and we may be close to game over.
Of course not. And who would you shoot if you did? What uniform does the enemy wear?
i would shoot him over there *points to random individual in crowd*
i would shoot him over there *points to random individual in crowd*
"Don't point that thing at me. It might go off.
You might go off. As a matter of fact, I wish you would." G. Marx
*little boy to his mother after being caught wanking* "honest mom, i was just cleaning it and it went off" :blush:
"Don't point that thing at me. It might go off. You might go off. As a matter of fact, I wish you would." G. Marx
"hold on to the nights, hold on to the me-----mories" R. Marx, 1987
The day after the election, no matter who wins, I will go to work, put out the trash, and go on with the rest of my life. Just like I've done after every other election. Priorities, man. I suspect most people will do the same.
Unfortunately my trash collection is on Tuesday night, so the trash will sit there for an entire week. But, tradition is important.
Et tu, UT. :lol: