Senior Prank?
[COLOR=indigo]Found this today....[/COLOR]
KANSAS CITY, Mo. May 19, 2004 — Five high school seniors in Missouri have been charged with assault for allegedly trying to tape a teacher to a chair.
The students, all 18 years old, apparently thought it was just a prank, but they now face possible jail time and fines.
The Platte County prosecutor on Tuesday charged Joseph L. Blankenship, Dexter Briscoe, Daniel M. Ikona and Matthew T. Mayfield, all of Kansas City, and Trevor Hachman, of Weatherby Lake, with third-degree assault, a misdemeanor. Each faces up to 15 days in jail and a $300 fine.
"Neither the teacher nor the students were hurt in this incident, but this was more than just a senior prank gone bad," Platt County Prosecutor Eric Zahnd said. "The fact that the students continued joking about the event, even after they were handcuffed and being led to jail, shows a distressing lack of respect for school and police authorities."
School officials barred all five from taking part in graduation ceremonies five days after the May 11 incident, said Nicole Kirby, a Park Hill School District spokeswoman.
Kirby said privacy laws prevent her from commenting about any other disciplinary actions against the student.
Court records say four of the students allegedly tried to restrain the teacher while Blankenship tried to tape him to the chair. The teacher got away before being taped and was not injured.
A Platte County sheriff's deputy who works as a resource officer at the school arrested the students after hearing about the incident.
[color=indigo]So is this just a senior prank or a precursor to other crimes? Assault? Rape? How would you punish them, if at all?[/color]
I think you would really have to get at the impetus for this action. Did they like the teacher and were just playing around or was this more revenge motivated? Probably only the teacher could answer that question.
The teacher should be jailed, and so should anyone else who can't take a damned joke.
Is the teacher particularly hairy?
First duct tape then before you know it, Andy, these kids'll be up in Mt. Pilot stealing newspapers out of vending machines! We have GOT to start nipping these things in the bud!
[SIZE=1]edited to fix broken link[/SIZE]
Originally posted by Radar
The teacher should be jailed, and so should anyone else who can't take a damned joke.
[COLOR=indigo]Yeah, but lets say they did manage to tie that teacher to the chair with the tape. Then what? You had 5 teenage boys vs. 1 incapacitated male. You're saying mob mentality would not have applied?
If a bunch of 18 year old males tied you to a chair, would you like it? Would you feel safe? Would you want to teach them anymore? I wouldn't. I'd have their asses kicked out too.
Some jokes aren't funny, and should not be tolerated.
[/COLOR]
I can't put my finger on precisely why, but Eric Zahnd's quote just creeps me out.
As others have mentioned, it depends entirely on intent and context.
Radar is wrong (once again.)
If there was a history of problems between the students and the teacher, the students were probably trying to settle an old score under the guise of a prank. That would be assault, and jail is justified.
If the students had no history of problems with the teacher, and they were approaching the teacher in a lighthearted friendly manner, I would say it falls in the unfortunate prank category. It's disrespectful, but it's not worthy of a criminal record and time in jail. Suspension would be appropriate in this case.
The teacher's point of view is critical here. We can only speculate.
Another news source
http://images.ibsys.com/2004/0518/3320314_200X150.jpg" alt="Image" />
According to
this article, one of the students said he wanted to "mess" with the teacher. Whatever that means.
Radar is wrong (once again.)
I have yet to be proven wrong on any subject in this forum and I have yet to lose a single debate. But that's not really something to brag about since I'm mostly dealing mainly with blithering idiots. (Jaguar, glatt, Onyx, wolf, marichiko, ladysycamore, etc.)
Originally posted by Radar
I have yet to be proven wrong on any subject in this forum and I have yet to lose a single debate.
Tell me again. What is that planet you live on?
Earth. You should visit some time.
Come on y'all! Lets tape Radar! He can take a joke!:)
Originally posted by Radar
I have yet to lose a single debate.
Today's Kool-Aid flavor is cherry.
Come on y'all! Lets tape Radar! He can take a joke!
Careful. I might pull a joke in return. Perhaps I'd seal your car up and fill it with water or park it on the roof of your building.
Originally posted by Radar
I have yet to be proven wrong on any subject in this forum
Liar.
No, you are a liar, and a fool. The link you gave doesn't show me to be proven wrong you pathetic little weasel.
It does show that you were proven wrong, but go ahead...have some more cherry Kool-Aid...
No it doesn't. It shows no such thing you lying bastard.
No thanks, Radar. I don't like cherry Kool-Aid.
Originally posted by Radar
I have yet to be proven wrong on any subject in this forum and I have yet to lose a single debate. But that's not really something to brag about since I'm mostly dealing mainly with blithering idiots. (Jaguar, glatt, Onyx, wolf, marichiko, ladysycamore, etc.)
[COLOR=indigo]Why is it that the most hardheaded, stubborn individuals have to resort to insulting other people to make themselves feel superior? I think Radar has an inferiority complex that he covers by acting like an arrogant asshole.[/COLOR]
No, I genuinely believe you to be a blithering idiot.
[COLOR=indigo]See? There he goes covering up that inferiority complex again. Poor thing. Are you just pissed because your wife is still not in the US?
*edit: corrected blithering idiot typo.[/COLOR]
Originally posted by Radar
I have yet to be proven wrong on any subject in this forum and I have yet to lose a single debate. But that's not really something to brag about since I'm mostly dealing mainly with blithering idiots. (Jaguar, glatt, Onyx, wolf, marichiko, ladysycamore, etc.)
Ooo, ooo! You forgot me! We don't discuss much in the same threads but I'm sure you've noticed I'm a blithering idiot?
Ya fucking dork.
Originally posted by blue58
Ooo, ooo! You forgot me! We don't discuss much in the same threads but I'm sure you've noticed I'm a blithering idiot?
Don't worry, Blue...most of us know that you're a blithering idiot. :)
Thanks...I hate being excluded, especially when I so obviously belong.
[COLOR=indigo]Well, *I* still love ya blue.[/COLOR]
Well, one solution to this problem is for judges to give the kids a choice between jail and the military.
After all, there's no place better to teach someone not to attempt to forcibly restrain and humiliate an unarmed man than the Army.
Originally posted by Happy Monkey
I can't put my finger on precisely why, but Eric Zahnd's quote just creeps me out.
Maybe it's that pious power trip that procecutors, cops and teachers pull when they're making much ado about nothing.:rolleyes:
That could very well be it.
I like Radar. He's not afraid to be controversial, arrogant or downright rude, and often hits the nail on the head in the most annoying way possible. Respect.
Originally posted by Catwoman
I like Radar. He's not afraid to be controversial, arrogant or downright rude, and often hits the nail on the head in the most annoying way possible. Respect.
Sure, but he's wrong this time. The teacher should not be jailed. Radar is insane if he really believes that.
Does he really believe that? Or is that what's generally taken to be humorous exaggeration...?
The punishment has to be largely related to intent, really. And how do you determine that?
[SIZE=1](edited because I am retarded and pressed the wrong button)[/SIZE]
Originally posted by LN
[SIZE=1](edited because I am retarded and pressed the wrong button)[/SIZE]
LN - please refer to the group sex thread. You might find some tips.
Hahahah. Class in a Glass Catwoman.
One parent who complained characterized the tape as hard-core pornography, but Chambers said she didn't view the tape and couldn't confirm its contents. Administrators were watching security camera tapes to try to determine who made the switch.
Of course, we are left trying to figure out what constitutes 'hard-core pornography' in Chamblee, Georgia.
Britney Spears? The Learning Channel?
Anyone that believes this is a prank is a twit. Being incapacitated is scary and has no humor at all. This is bullying of the worst sort.
Anyone who believes it's anything other than a prank or that it's "scary" is an asshole who can't take a joke. Being tied up IS a joke and doesn't harm anyone. Being locked up for days is not a joke, but for a little while at a shool, give me a fucking break!
These are the same kind of retards who had a 6 year old boy kicked out of school for sexual harassment when he kissed a 6 year old girl or had a kid thrown out of high school for taking aspirin because their "no tolerance" drug policy, etc.
It's a prank! Get over it, and get over yourselves. If you claim this isn't a prank, you need to pull your head out of your ass immediately.
I am squarely in Radar's corner on this one. So many people are so self-important these days that anyone who offends them or messes with them has to do twenty years of hard time.
And I'm not sure the teacher is the Nancy-boy, either. From reading the story, it looks to me that a deputy is the one who decided to make an issue of it.
Originally posted by Beestie
So many people are so self-important these days that anyone who offends them or messes with them has to do twenty years of hard time.
In this case they are talking about the possibility of 15 days in prison.
Of course, if convicted, this would be the "first strike" for these kids. The next mistake would put them in prison for life.
Originally posted by Radar
Anyone who believes it's anything other than a prank or that it's "scary" is an asshole who can't take a joke. Being tied up IS a joke and doesn't harm anyone. Being locked up for days is not a joke, but for a little while at a shool, give me a fucking break!
These are the same kind of retards who had a 6 year old boy kicked out of school for sexual harassment when he kissed a 6 year old girl or had a kid thrown out of high school for taking aspirin because their "no tolerance" drug policy, etc.
It's a prank! Get over it, and get over yourselves. If you claim this isn't a prank, you need to pull your head out of your ass immediately.
Not it is not a joke. Anytime anyone is forced against their will, it is definately not a joke.
You are probably the sort of guy who gave "swirlies" in high school weren't you? Well, what goes around, comes around, and some day you will get yours.
Oh, and Radar? Learn to read. I never advocated jail time for these youths. But they sure do need discipline of some sort.
The only discipline they should get is less than a slap on the wrist. The extent of it should be someone saying, "Now boys! That's not nice."
And I've taken my share of pranks and dished them out. I've had my pants yanked off by a whole boyscout troop and had them pulled up a flag pole. I've picked up freshmen and dropped them butt first in trashcans, etc.
Get over it. Sheese! If you're so uptight that you dwell on something so trivial, you need to seek professional help.
You know for someone who spouts as much as you do about the constitution, you don't seem to care about the rights of that teacher.
Originally posted by Radar
I've picked up freshmen and dropped them butt first in trashcans, etc.
this may not surprise some of you, but I've done that too. poor kid. in retrospect, i feel like a dick for doing it, but it was hysterical at the time. It took him 5 minutes of rocking back and forth to finally tip the 50 gallon drum over in order to get out. I think i was in 8th grade at the time. boys WILL be boys.
Originally posted by lumberjim
i feel like a dick for doing it, but it was hysterical at the time.
This is appropriate. You
were a dick for doing it. This kind of thing is a power trip. It also indicates, I think, a lack of empathy for others.
"Boys will be boys."
Yeah, I realize stuff like this happens. That doesn't make it right.
IT'S TRUE. I was a dick. I used to be a bit of a bully in jr high. i've mellowed since. i havent been in an actual fight since i was 12 yrs old.
YOU WERE THE KID WHO BEAT ME UP IN SIXTH GRADE!!!
Fuck you man!!! How have you redeemed your self!!!
i have redeemed myself. I saved several dorks from certain beatings in high school. One kid named Forest in particular. A kid named sean that was all covered in muscle was going to beat him up for being prissy. i had but to ask him nicely not to as a favor to me. Forest was very grateful. Then, Irony took over. several years later, my girlfriend in college cheated on me with Forest.
feel better?
my girlfriend in college cheated on me with Forest.
Couln't see the wood for the forest, huh.:)
Make UT feel better, sell him some speakers.
Originally posted by Radar
Careful. I might pull a joke in return. Perhaps I'd seal your car up and fill it with water or park it on the roof of your building.
once, my boss filled a coworkers car up to the door handles with sawdust. It was in retaliation for the giant red cock and balls he had drawn on the roof of my boss's van in chalk powder. ah, fun times, man. fun times.
Originally posted by Radar
The only discipline they should get is less than a slap on the wrist. The extent of it should be someone saying, "Now boys! That's not nice."
And I've taken my share of pranks and dished them out. I've had my pants yanked off by a whole boyscout troop and had them pulled up a flag pole. I've picked up freshmen and dropped them butt first in trashcans, etc.
Get over it. Sheese! If you're so uptight that you dwell on something so trivial, you need to seek professional help.
[COLOR=indigo]Having your panks yanked down by some boys while you're a boy, trash canning someone, writing on their car, true *pranks* are NOT the same thing as being a teacher and 4 students coming to tie you up and make it so that you cannot defend yourself should they decide to do something else.
Those boys do not have the RIGHT to put their hands on that teacher. They do not have the RIGHT to assault anyone.
And you trying to indicate that anyone who disagrees with your point of view is crazy or less than intelligent is the epitome of arrogance.
I know! Let's go to vietnam and have four guys tie up your wife!! How funny that will be!![/COLOR]
cougar, keep that kind of thing in the group sex thread where it belongs.
and you're right. I know nothing about this, but I think that on it's face, it's wrong. The fact that the teacher escaped, however, goes to the intent of the boys. If they REALLY wanted this guy taped to the chair, he wouldn't have escaped. They let him up when they realized that it was a bad idea, and the teacher wasn't getting the joke. They shouldn't have done it. They should have known better. In the present clime, this kind of thing is unacceptable.
I'm betting that one of these kids has a father that wishes he never told his son about the time that they taped old mr so and so to his chair when THEY were in school. And a mother that is REALLY REALLY pissed off at her husband.
I know! Let's go to vietnam and have four guys tie up your wife!! How funny that will be!!
You learned that from Dave, didn't you.:haha:
Having your panks yanked down by some boys while you're a boy, trash canning someone, writing on their car, true *pranks* are NOT the same thing as being a teacher and 4 students coming to tie you up and make it so that you cannot defend yourself should they decide to do something else.
Wrong, it's EXACTLY the same.
Those boys do not have the RIGHT to put their hands on that teacher. They do not have the RIGHT to assault anyone.
Well if you want to get technical about it, no person on earth has a right to touch another person for any reason without asking them, but it's done all the time. It's a bit crowded here.
I'll go with the timeless wisdom of "Fuck 'em if they can't take a joke"
I know! Let's go to vietnam and have four guys tie up your wife!! How funny that will be!!
I'd love to go to Vietnam and tie up my wife. Let's go! And if I'm not one of the guys, I'm sure her cousins can do it. Someone you know (like your students) tying you up isn't the same as having someone you don't know tie you up.
Your so fucking stupid I bet you'd sue someone if they squirted you with a water pistol. I think when you fell out of the ugly tree and hit every branch on the way down, one of them got stuck up your ass and it had a bug on it.
Originally posted by Radar
Well if you want to get technical about it, no person on earth has a right to touch another person for any reason without asking them, but it's done all the time. It's a bit crowded here.
I'll go with the timeless wisdom of "Fuck 'em if they can't take a joke"
It's either a right or it's not. I don't remember any "Fuck 'em if they can't take a joke" amendment. Different people have different kinds of humor. Some have no sense of humor at all. That doesn't invalidate their rights.
Originally posted by Radar
Your so fucking stupid I bet you'd sue someone if they squirted you with a water pistol. I think when you fell out of the ugly tree and hit every branch on the way down, one of them got stuck up your ass and it had a bug on it.
When a person resorts to personal insult you know that 1) They're not really sure of their argument and 2) They're trying to get the upper hand by being hurtful. Which, when you think about it, shows why Radar identifies with the boys and not the teacher.
OC was drawing an analogy. The fact that two people commented negatively on it just goes to show that it is not funny when it happens to you and yours.
P.S. If you're going to call someone stupid, you really ought to proofread before you post.
It's either a right or it's not.
Sigh, if only life were that simple.:blunt:
It's either a right or it's not.
Wrong Mr. False dichotomy. There are more than just rights and non-rights. There are priviledges, and traditions, and customs. There is a sailors tradition in the U.S. Navy that is more than 300 years old (Since before there was a U.S. Navy). Everyone who has previously sailed across the International dateline is called an "honorable shell back" and those who haven't are called "pollywogs". When you cross the International dateline the shell backs drag all the pollywogs (including officers) onto the deck of the ship, beat them with rubber hoses, make them crawl through rotten and disgusting trash, make them take an olive/cherry out of a fat guys belly button with grease and cajun pepper and stuff all over his belly so it gets in your eyes, etc. and otherwise torture you for awhile. It's a right of passage and everyone does it.
A dickhead like you would try to bring people up on charges. Do they have a
right to do this? No. Is it expected? Yes. Will you get very far if you try to complain about it? No. Will you have any friends if you try to make a stink about it? Hell No. Everyone will know you as the asshole you are.
I don't remember any "Fuck 'em if they can't take a joke" amendment.
Our rights don't come from amendments. Nice try though. Nobody said pulling pranks on others was a "right". But it is a right of passage. And if you're such an asshole that you call the cops when someone pulls a harmless prank on you
(Yes this is a harmless prank and it's a funny one at that), than you're the one with the problem, not the people joking with you.
P.S. If you're going to call someone stupid, you really ought to proofread before you post.
You can count yourself as stupid too buddy. I'd be MORE than happy to compare my intellect to yours any time. Although it's sort of comparing a speed bump (you) to Mt Everest (me....well, maybe not Everest, but at least Mt Wilson)
Hmmm...you need some more Kool-Aid.
You sure like to mention Kool-Aid a lot. Perhaps it's because you have the intellect of a small child. Unlike the brainwashed and ignorant masses you represent, I'm not brainwashed and haven't swallowed the Kool-Aid. But you sure do enjoy it. So by all means, throw on a dark blue jogging outfit, some Nike shoes, read a Jim Jones book, and drink a big gulp sized Kool-Aid.
Radar, no matter how you position it, the "prank" was still a physical assault, and should be treated as such.
Today is not the world you grew up in. The teacher that was held hostage (I am not exaggerating for effect, that's what those kids did) is teaching in a post-Columbine and Pearl, Mississippi world. You, and from the description in the article, those kids, do not see the seriousness of their actions. This isn't the usual zero-tolerance bullshit about nail clippers and aspirin that typically makes the news. This is real, physical violence. You can't have it both ways ... being a prank when kids with youthful high spirits do it, and a crime when prison guards in Iraq do it.
No matter what you say or how you try to twist the truth tying someone to a chair is
NOT an assault and is not taking someone "hostage".
You, and from the description in the article, those kids, do not see the seriousness of their actions.
That's because there was no seriousness in their actions. Only super-sensitive assholes think this harmless prank was serious in any way. You are fucking seriously and genuinely insane if you honestly believe this was anything other than a light-hearted prank that deserves absolutely no punishment. I don't mean that in a joking way. I mean you should check yourself in to a mental health facility immediately.
This isn't the usual zero-tolerance bullshit about nail clippers and aspirin that typically makes the news.
That's exactly what it is. It's no different than the people who expelled the 6 year old boy from school because he chased a girl and kissed her on the cheek.
This is real, physical violence.
NO, IT'S NOT!!! There was no
violence, there was just holding someone to a chair and taping them to it which is not violence.
You can't have it both ways ... being a prank when kids with youthful high spirits do it, and a crime when prison guards in Iraq do it.
The kids weren't beating the teacher, stripping him and other teachers naked, torturing them, forcing them to perform homosexual acts on each other, raping them, and murdering them. Any comparison between taping someone to a chair and the torture that happened to people in Iraq is beyond stupid.
Originally posted by Radar
NO, IT'S NOT!!! There was no violence, there was just holding someone to a chair and taping them to it which is not violence.
Yes, it's violence by definition, even if being done gently,
if it is done without consent. The teacher was not a willing participant in an S&M scene here. He was held, against his will, with either force or threat of force, and an attempt was made to physically restrain him.
The kids are actually lucky to get off with a misdemeanor charge and not being able to attend graduation. They should have been expelled. Yes, that's right ... goodbye college expelled. Need to get a GED expelled. You broke the law expelled. Teachers should not lay hands on a student, students should not lay hands on a teacher. If the victim did not think it was an assault, there would not have been charges filed.
This is NOT handing a marble to the superintendent of schools when you accept your diploma cover, nor is it released 5,000 ping pong balls in a stairwell. THOSE are pranks. The difference is clear to everybody here, except you.
Originally posted by Radar
You sure like to mention Kool-Aid a lot. Perhaps it's because you have the intellect of a small child. Unlike the brainwashed and ignorant masses you represent, I'm not brainwashed and haven't swallowed the Kool-Aid. But you sure do enjoy it. So by all means, throw on a dark blue jogging outfit, some Nike shoes, read a Jim Jones book, and drink a big gulp sized Kool-Aid.
You're a libertarian...and you live in California.
Who's drinking the Kool-Aid here?
Originally posted by Radar
You can count yourself as stupid too buddy. I'd be MORE than happy to compare my intellect to yours any time. Although it's sort of comparing a speed bump (you) to Mt Everest (me....well, maybe not Everest, but at least Mt Wilson)
Your intellect, such as it is, is far exceeded by your opinion of yourself. :rolleyes:
Anyway, nice tap dance Billy Flynn, but you didn't address the issue. What those boys intended to do constitutes unlawful detainment. Are you seriously saying that the teacher's rights may be abrogated by private citizens for the purposes of a prank?
Getting back to the facts of the case: from the original post in this thread...
Court records say four of the students allegedly tried to restrain the teacher while Blankenship tried to tape him to the chair. The teacher got away before being taped and was not injured.
A Platte County sheriff's deputy who works as a resource officer at the school arrested the students after hearing about the incident.
So what we have here is an
attempted practical joke/prank/whatever. And the arrest was made not after the teacher called 911 but after an
off-duty deputy
heard about it.
Nothing happened and nothing should happen. Expulsion? Unthinkable for such a non-event. This is an overreaction and a misuse of police power, imho.
Absolutely correct Beetsie. It's nice to see someone in here using their head for something other than a hat rack.
FWIW, I don't think a resource officer is "off-duty." I think he's the school's cop, making him the most likely person to arrest anyone in the school.
Our school cop was great. She was breaking up a fight once, the two girls teamed up on her, and she pinned both of them in under a few seconds. It was so cool. But then later I saw her doing traffic duty, which was sad. But come to think of it, I don't know that she would have considered it a demotion.
You're still dancing, kid. The question of the arrest is a separate issue.
You already agreed that the young men did not have the right to touch the teacher without his consent, but then go on to say that it was really ok because it was a joke.
The question at hand is whether it was moral and legal to abrogate the rights of the teacher because the intent was "a prank".
Wrong. I'm not dancing and it's not an issue of rights, so stop trying to make it such. This is not an issue of rights, it's not an issue of violence, it's not an issue of someone being held hostage, it's not any of that. It's nothing other than a harmless prank. If someone wants to make more of it than that, they are ignorant, pathetic, worthless, idiotic, assholes without a life or a sense of humor, period.
There's a reason you still haven't answered a simple yes or no question.
Tappity-tappity-tap. Still dancing.
<Looking at my feet> Nope, still not dancing. It's not a rights issue and it never has been one. You're still trying to confuse the issue. Keep squirming, and twisting, and wiggling, but you'll never make it a rights issue. No matter how hard you try to throw a red herring into this mix, you'll never succeed.
It's all fun and games until someone loses an eye ...
"It's always fun until someone gets hurt, then it is just hilarious..."--Faith No More
I don't think we know enough yet to say whether this was a prank or an assault.
Answer the question Radar, or admit your position is bogus.
Originally posted by Beestie
So what we have here is an attempted practical joke/prank/whatever. And the arrest was made not after the teacher called 911 but after an off-duty deputy heard about it.
Nothing happened and nothing should happen. Expulsion? Unthinkable for such a non-event. This is an overreaction and a misuse of police power, imho.
Perhaps, but IMO, the intent is just as bad. Why? Because it could have very well ended up very badly if they had indeed successful in tying up the teacher. I think some sort of punishment should be issued for the intent, and if I were that teacher, I'd get a restraining order real quick. Joke or no joke, WTF did they feel the need to attempt to tie up a teacher in the first damned place?? And who's to say that they won't try this again? *tsk*
Originally posted by ladysycamore
Perhaps, but IMO, the intent is just as bad. Why? Because it could have very well ended up very badly if they had indeed successful in tying up the teacher. I think some sort of punishment should be issued for the intent, and if I were that teacher, I'd get a restraining order real quick. Joke or no joke, WTF did they feel the need to attempt to tie up a teacher in the first damned place?? And who's to say that they won't try this again? *tsk*
[COLOR=indigo]Et lux in tenebris lucet!! **cuddles Rho**[/COLOR]
Answer the question Radar, or admit your position is bogus.
Sure. I'll do that right after you admit this has nothing to do with a rights issue, and that it was nothing other than a harmless prank.
[COLOR=indigo]But you don't KNOW that's all they were intending. We know they intended to tie up a teacher against his will. They SAY that's all they were gonna do. But we don't KNOW that. What if they taped him to that chair and beat him to an inch of his life? Or God forbid, kill him? We don't know what their intentions were. The bottom line is, they should not have even attempted to put their hands on ANY other nonconsenting individual, period. It's not about sense of humor. It's about attempted assault.
Yes, I know, this argument has been used in this thread before, and no, I don't seriously expect you to change your closed mind. And I'm pretty sure you'll make some arrogant remark about my intelligence again, just because you don't agree with just about every other individual that posted on this thread.
But I hadda say it anyway. :)
[/COLOR]
Originally posted by Radar
Sure. I'll do that right after you admit this has nothing to do with a rights issue, and that it was nothing other than a harmless prank.
The requests are not analogous, dancing boy. I've requested that you answer a simple yes or no question. It's a reasonable question to ask and you are afraid to answer it.
dar, this is getting boring. We ALL know that no one has the right to do what they did.
If the kids had true malicious intent, they wouldn't have let the teacher get away. It's relatively simple to me. 5 17-18 yr olds could easily have had their way with him. they didn't. When he put up a fuss, they let him go.
I'm not saying it makes it ok, but the kids must have felt pretty comfortable with this particular teacher to attempt this. Over the line, for sure. But the kids didn;t sit around a pizza and think up a way to impinge on his rights, they concocted a poorly advised prank. i still think it was an attempt at repetition of what one of their father's or other strong male influences told them about.
get off the moral high horse, and look at the heart of the matter.
If people knew what somebody goes through getting their Shellback or their Blue Nose or having your Dolphins tacked on in then Navy, or any other ritual/hazing they'd shut their whiny holes.
It doesn't sound as if the teacher actually reported it as a crime. The person who initiated the charges is a dumbass. Sure the kids should suffer some consequences for their poor decision making. You don't put your hands on someone else and you should be attentive of the respect between teacher and student.
And what the hell is a resource officer? It sounds like a case of "hydroceramic technician" syndrome to me.
Gotta agree, the little fuckers deserve to be beaten around the head with the book and then have it thrown at them, end of story. People with judgement that poor an such little respect of the rights of others just go on to become bigger assholes, give them a probationary conviction, toss away their degree and maybe it`ll sink in.
This is in no way whatsoever comparable to hazing, particularly military hazing (which trust me, I know all about).
If people knew what somebody goes through getting their Shellback or their Blue Nose or having your Dolphins tacked on in then Navy, or any other ritual/hazing they'd shut their whiny holes.
You are absolutely correct.
Gotta agree, the little fuckers deserve to be beaten around the head with the book and then have it thrown at them, end of story. People with judgement that poor an such little respect of the rights of others just go on to become bigger assholes, give them a probationary conviction, toss away their degree and maybe it`ll sink in.
No, they don't deserve to be "beaten", they don't deserve any punishment what-so-ever, and anything that happened as a prank has nothing to do with thier passing the required classes, tests, and other requirements to earn their diploma. Taking that away is not even a rational option.
This is in no way whatsoever comparable to hazing, particularly military hazing (which trust me, I know all about).
Yes, it is. While it doesn't have the centuries old tradition behind it, it's equally a non-issue and those who make it an issue are thought of as the same kind of people who would ask that someone be arrested, sued, beaten, or have their diploma robbed of them for hitting someone with a water baloon.
There is a deep irony in you, of all people, saying that this isn`t an infringement of the guy`s rights.
Hazing is something you go though, usually to gain respect or entry to one kind of club or another, this is a teacher being tied to a chair by a bunch of arrogant, disrespectful fucks who need the fact they have no right whatsoever to lay a hand on another person drilled into the very fucking hard before their next prack, which will proably involve serious bodily harm or gang rape, they`re great jokes aren`t they.
There is a deep irony in you, of all people, saying that this isn`t an infringement of the guy`s rights.
I've said no such thing. I've said this is not a rights issue. It has nothing to do with the guys rights. It has to do with a prank and a guys sense of humor, or in this case lack of a sense of humor. An affliction which you both suffer from.
Justice is about punishment fitting the crime, and in this case the crime is no more serious than Jay Walking if even that much.
There is no evidence what-so-ever that they were doing anything other than taping the teacher to a chair. There was especially nothing even remotely suggesing they intended to commit a violent act or sexual assault. Only an idiot would suggest we arrest people for something they
MIGHT do. But then again, you've proven all too often you fit that description perfectly.
Is hitting someone with a waterbaloon a serious crime in your book too? Maybe they were going to fill it with acid? Maybe they were going to fill it with nitro glycerine? Who knows? Perhaps they wanted to blow up the school with waterbaloon bombs right? Since you lack common sense, I'll spell it out for you. A water balloon is usually filled with water and when it hits someone, they are not permanently damaged. In this case, just as in the case of taping a teacher to a chair, the appropriate punishment would be for someone to say, "Knock it off" and that should be the end of it.
But some psycho retarded assholes out there want to make a big deal out of it, and suggest insane things like taking away their diploma, expelling them, arresting them, or even beating them. The only people who should be beaten are those stupid enough to suggest any of these or even those who would notify the police. They obviously need some sense knocked into them.
I suppose you'd want the death penalty for those who TP your house?
Originally posted by Radar
I've said no such thing. I've said this is not a rights issue. It has nothing to do with the guys rights.
If you say something isn't a rights issue, and has nothing to do with rights, then you are indeed saying that it isn't an infringement of his rights.
Are familiar with the phrase "to throw the book at someone", I extended it, I did not imply they should be beaten, please stop using a straw man. Ditto for the water baloon.
The forcefully detained a man against his will, in my book that`s a sure sign of a certain type of personality and mentality which has a tendancy to lend itself towards a distinct lack of respect for others. If they think they can get away with tieing up teachers what comes next, they have demonstrated clearly they don`t respect the rights of others.
The line between a prank and malice is a dangerously thin one, if someone TPd your house you might think it`s a harmless prank but if they drop a molotov on your lawn you might think differently, if you don`t teach people to respect the rights and property of others from the start, they only get worse until they get pulled up.
One person`s harmless joke can really hurt another person, not to mention misjudged incidents that spiral out of control. If you can`t understand that you do not hae the right to lay your hands on another person you deserved to be pulled up on it fast and hard.
I should illustrate this with a similar incident.
My old high school had a tradition of sorts of tieing the `goose`, an unfortunate member of a lower year level that rotated daily whose job it was to bring round the role to a pole in one of the rooms with industrial strength glad wrap one the last day of their last term. One year they left the guy for a couple of hours and he had a chest problem, he came close to dieing, yea, great fucking joke that was.
If you say something isn't a rights issue, and has nothing to do with rights, then you are indeed saying that it isn't an infringement of his rights.
No, I'm not saying it's not an infringement of rights. I'm saying it's such a small infringement, it's not even worth noting. Nobody has the right to touch you but if someone bumps into you on a crowded street, are you going to call the cops? Jay Walking is against the law, but if someone does it, should they call out the SWAT teams?
Are familiar with the phrase "to throw the book at someone", I extended it, I did not imply they should be beaten, please stop using a straw man. Ditto for the water baloon.
The water baloon example is by no means a straw man. It's a concrete and clear example of what we're talking about here. Someone making a big deal out of NOTHING. As far as the "throw the book at them" thing, you can blame your own poor writing skills.
The line between a prank and malice is a dangerously thin one, if someone TPd your house you might think it`s a harmless prank but if they drop a molotov on your lawn you might think differently, if you don`t teach people to respect the rights and property of others from the start, they only get worse until they get pulled up.
And in this case it wasn't even as bad as the TP let alone the molotov cocktail. It was the no worse than taping a "kick me" sign on someone's back.
If you can`t understand that you do not hae the right to lay your hands on another person you deserved to be pulled up on it fast and hard.
If you can't understand the difference between violent crime and completely harmless and funny prank such as taping your teacher to a chair, you have no common sense or understanding of the word "justice". You're beyond stupid.
One year they left the guy for a couple of hours and he had a chest problem, he came close to dieing, yea, great fucking joke that was.
Someone should have called the whaa-mbulance!
Someone should have called the whaa-mbulance!
I think this is a good summary, near death of a student over a stupid prank and well, clearly they`re overreacting. I put radar on block a long time ago, not sure why I took it off but it`s going back on, I have better things to do with my time.
I always thought that a teacher is a person of respect and authority. I think it's dangerous to mine the authority of a teacher by taping him to a chair...
But it also depends on the relationship between the teacher and these students, the fact that this act is maybe a tradition and what was behind the whole think. If it's only a joke, it shouldn't be build up to a big story but otherwise I think it should be punished but maybe an internal punishment of the school.
but that's only my opinion
I put radar on block a long time ago, not sure why I took it off but it`s going back on, I have better things to do with my time.
That's the best idea you've ever had. You won't reply to my posts with your ignorant crap. I should put you on block too. The collective IQ of the entire board will increase dramatically.
Originally posted by Radar
Someone should have called the whaa-mbulance!
[COLOR=indigo]So you're saying that it's ok to play a"prank", even if it takes someone's life. [/COLOR]
No, I'm saying the people who pulled the prank had no way of knowing the condition of the person they were pulling the prank on and I'd be willing to bet that the target of the prank didn't tell them. If you throw a surprise birthday party for your great grandfather and he walks into a room and you shout "SURPRISE!" and he keels over dead of a heart attack. Should you go to jail? Of course not. You had no intention of harming him. The same is true of the guys taping thier teacher to a chair. Everything suggests they had no intention of harming the teacher, and were only performing a totally and completely harmless prank that they expected the teacher to go along with as most people would.
At my school we'd contact the parents of certain kids and let them know we were going to "kidnap" them, and the parents wouldn't let them know about it. The parents would let us sneak in at night put a pillow case over their head, tie them up, put them in the trunk of the car, and take them with us somewhere to do silly things to them. It was all in fun, and the person who was kidnapped always went along with the prank. The cops weren't notified, and all had fun. Is it frightening to be woken up in the middle of the night, have a bad thrown over your head, then to be tied up, put into the trunk of a car and taken somewhere without knowing who is doing it or where you're going? Yes. But when the hood comes off and they see it's just the people they know, they are ok with it and cooperate with the prank as any well-adjusted non-psycho would do. For instance there was a hardware place with a toilet on thier sign and we made one girl sit on the toilet seat and wave to passing traffic.
What if some kid did have a heart condition? Normally something like this would be well known, and if it wasn't and someone happened to have a problem, those who tied them up would set them free and get them help as I'm sure the kids would do with the teacher.
I'm astounded by the utter ignorance, and lack of common sense among many of you. I've seen some pretty stupid people out there, but a blithering idiot like jaguar is very rare.
Originally posted by Radar
No matter what you say or how you try to twist the truth tying someone to a chair is [B]NOT an assault and is not taking someone "hostage".
No, it's not Assault, it's battery, and still illegal. See
definition
It is possible it's not even the teacher's decision on whether or not press charges. Given that battery on a teacher is alleged, other statu[COLOR=red]t[/COLOR]es in place to protect teachers may have fired to force an arrest.
[COLOR=red]edit : correction [/COLOR]
further correction : It may not be assault, but it is definately battery.
By your definition bumping into someone on a crowded sidewalk is also battery. So what. Is calling it battery somehow supposed to make this harmless prank any more scary or evil? Because it doesn't.
Originally posted by Radar
By your definition bumping into someone on a crowded sidewalk is also battery.
Yup - it's battery. It is up the the "battered" individual to decide whether to press charges. Most of the time, they decline.
Originally posted by Radar
Is calling it battery somehow supposed to make this harmless prank any more scary or evil? Because it doesn't.
I didnt say scary or evil. I said illegal. The response to scary or evil is "Eek! Kill it!". The response to illegal is usually arrest. In that case (as shown above) it is often up to the offended to decide whether arrest occurs. In this particular instance, the prevailing statutes may have dictated that decision.
Originally posted by Radar
At my school we'd contact the parents of certain kids and let them know we were going to "kidnap" them, and the parents wouldn't let them know about it. The parents would let us sneak in at night put a pillow case over their head, tie them up, put them in the trunk of the car, and take them with us somewhere to do silly things to them. It was all in fun, and the person who was kidnapped always went along with the prank. The cops weren't notified, and all had fun. Is it frightening to be woken up in the middle of the night, have a bad thrown over your head, then to be tied up, put into the trunk of a car and taken somewhere without knowing who is doing it or where you're going?
Now that's sick and I can't imagine that anyone can approve this. What do you know about child psychology? You can never know in which way an incident like this can influence the psyche of a child...
Originally posted by Pi
What do you know about child psychology?
Everything.
C'mon, this is Radar we're talking about here. He knows fucking everything. I don't get why you people still argue with him when you know full well that he's THE SMARTEST MAN ALIVE!
Uppps... sorry maybe I have to check in more often... Thanks perth, that part was unknown to me.
Hrm...parents actually ALLOWING kids to come into their home and fake kidnap their child...sounds pretty sick.
I would ask "but why", but somehow, I already know. :rolleyes:
C'mon, this is Radar we're talking about here. He knows fucking everything. I don't get why you people still argue with him when you know full well that he's THE SMARTEST MAN ALIVE!
I don't know everything, and I'mnot the smartest man alive. It just seems that way when compared to the likes of Pi or perth. I'm smarter than most, but that's not saying much since most are idiots.
Originally posted by Radar
I don't know everything, and I'mnot the smartest man alive. It just seems that way when compared to the likes of Pi or perth.
And Syc and UT, and Jag, and everyone else on
this list. See everyone? This is why we need to be thankful that Radar's around! Maybe some of his vast intellect will rub off on us! Excuse me whilst I go light another candle on my Radar Shrine. My knees just went weak when he mentioned me in a post.
I always try not to judge people. So I don't make statments concerning their intelligence or knowledge, because of what I'm reading here I don't have the right to declare myself able to know the others good enough to do. But I think it's very offensing to say that one's better than another. It's very dangerous and it's no sign of respect. And if I have to reproach radar something it's his capabilty to judge me without knowing me. Maybe he's right but I think it's sad he is so hasty with his decisions...
But that's only my opinion
Radar said he was going to put me on his ignore list quite some time ago, yet he still responds to my posts. Guess he can't get enough of me...
I find that ignore lists really don't serve a useful purpose, unless you REALLY can't stand someone. You miss a lot of good controversy that way. And even I must admit, sometimes the darndest people say things that make me think or that I may even agree with.
unless you REALLY can't stand someone.
case in point, there is no point in me aruging with radar, it just clutters up otherwise decent threads and I doubt I`m missing anything I would miss.