this is Mr. StaceyV
Hi!
By request from beloved wife, Stacey, i'm writing this to explain my situation - so you'd know my side of the story.
For those who doesn't - look @ StaceyV's thread - "i need advice really bad"
I really love my wife. You might not believe me like she doesn't - but this is how I feel. Everything I do in my life I do for her. Maybe I do a lot of fuckups, but nobody's perfect and you know it. At least I try not to commit the same mistakes all over again.
I am proud to be married and I am proud to call her my wife. The vows I gave her when we got married were and are truly said.
Let me make myself clear on that.
The relationship I had with Eva was crazy. First things first - I never slept with her. So she is not even my ex-girlfriend. I was in love with her for short period of time - but it was crazy love and I have no intentions to deny it. I'd say that was my first childish love - short but intense.
We were together for VERY short period of time - about 10 days or so, and after that she left to Florida first, came back for a night and left for Slovakia for good.
When she came back from Florida and wasn't even excited to see her. All the power has dissapered somewhere. I really don't why.
I guess that's just the type of a man I was.
When she left I to Florida I cried like a baby. I thought I lost my future, my life, my only love.
When she left to Slovakia, in a short period of time I lost my job, my place, my friends, computer, DVD player and my cell phone. Now, that was worse than losing my life.
I ended up in a room 12x15 feet with no tv, computer two beds and a private bath in a house I had to share with 11 other people including my landlord. By the way, I shared my room with a heroin addict, who was stealing my personal belongings. I lost most of my CD's and all my DVDs to that fucker. I guess he was pushing it for a dose. It all ended up by him stealing a camcoder and a digital camera from a guy from another room - he got kicked out after that.
To cut a long story short after everything I had - I got nothing. The house was close to the library and that was my only shelter - to spend time in the internet hall - just not to see the deepness of my fall...
That is how those letters have started. I don't know if Stacey posted all of them - but, no. Actually - i started writing the letters when Eva left to Florida - i think i exhausted my feelings to her in the letters i was throwing at her.
Anyway, when i lost everything and even more - the guy i worked with for about two weeks went to the Keys and was found dead - the only thing I had was her - Eva, my pen friend, my first kiddish love.
She was always there, waiting for me in the library like an escape from appaling existence. She gave me advices, she was there to caress me, she was the one to listen, she was the only good thing i had left.
But! Time is a powerful thing. Little by little I started to slack off on her. I wasn't running to the library like before, wasn't waiting for her to answer, found some other things to do, got my job back, and PLEASE DO NOT UNDERESTIMATE THE POWER OF MJ!!!
Eva understood everything - she offered to be a friend - and I didn't say anything.
This is when StaceyV walked into my life. When I saw her for the first time - I knew she was THE ONE.
I didn't live with her at the very beginning - but we ended up together pretty quick - I needed a place to stay. So that's how we became lovers that live together - she didn't mind, nor did I.
Eva?
I kept writing her the letters with flame in words and indifference in my heart - I couldn't do otherwise. She was something more
to me than just a friend and I couldn't understand how to be just a friend. To write about how the weather was??? Some people are easy to break up and be friends, some not. I wasn't.
Life went on, I changed a lot, I grew mentally and psysically. We got married things went different directions, but i was still writing those letters. Why? I don't know. I couldn't make myself write differently, though I felt differently.
Now the main question here is:
Was I honest with Stacey or with Eva at that point of our lives when I was married to Stacey and kept writing to Eva?
Truly answer would be with both. Betraying on of them would be like betrayal of the part of your own self - impossible. I managed to persuade myself how deeply i was in love with Eva and didn't want tol leave that false belief. I managed to have fallen in love with Stacey and didn't have the power to stop writing to Eva - to betray what we had together.
Shoot me now - I am all open now! Open your evil mouthes and kill my lame excuses - despise me!!!
Arsen.
By the way, my citizenship is not even close - I didn't file anything
yet.
Was it one of the reasons of me marring Stacey?
Yes.
Was it the only one?
No.
NO.
NO.NO.NO.
I just love her. simple as that. I felt that way when I saw her for the first time.
I'm spared.
First of all, let me be clear in saying that I am not interested in trying to anger you, abuse you, or otherwise engage in verbal sparring with you for my own amusement.
But do NOT try to feed me a pile of dog crap and call it ice cream.
Originally posted by arsen
[paraphrase]blahblahblah my life is soooo complex. I should be excused for acting like a self-absorbed wanker with no regard for anyone's feelings but my own. [/paraphrase]
I don't care what country you're from, I don't care how miserable you think your existence is, I don't care how you define love. When you marry someone, you are making a vow. You are promising them, in the presence of signed witnesses, that you are now taking the sacred responsibility of tying your life to theirs. This means that without the express consent of your life partner, you may not engage in a romantic relationship, a sexual relationship, or any other form of relationship with another person. And for those about to call me to task on this, you know what the fuck I mean. I'm not talking friendships, I'm talking mushy you-complete-me letters, secret meetings, etc. etc. etc. ad nauseum.
If you can't live up to your side of the marriage, don't get married. If you have any other reason other than undying devotion for getting married, you have the obligation to make damn sure the other party knows it in advance so they don't fuck up years of their life trying to figure out why the hell they can't make you happy. It's worse than mismanaging your love life. It's being cruel to someone you purport to love. That's not acceptable, and it sickens any right-thinking person.
[/rant]
just for your information:
i never fucked her.
we dated for 10 days and not two weeks
my wife opened my email account because i gave her the password for my computer account and it happenes to be the same as my e-mail's - im lazy
I never gave her permission to read my e-mail nor to post it to you.
I trusted her absolutely that's why i didn't delete them - I couldn't even think she'd read them without asking me.
Arsen
But do NOT try to feed me a pile of dog crap and call it ice cream.
You're entitled in your opinion but I never was unfaithful to my wife.
Not in my heart, not in my mind, not in real life.
That's all.
Arsen
I can be an asshole too, you know.
If you think the relationship you had with another woman while you were married is proper and appropriate, then no amount of yelling at you will change your mind. You need to stop defending yourself and figure out why you are cheating. Your dick does not need to get wet to constitute cheating. It's a state of mind. That's my opinion, at least, and you certainly don't have to share it.
You also lose your privacy when you get married. If you have nothing to hide, there's no reason why both of you shouldn't have access to every file on your computer. Why the hell shouldn't she read them?
I realize you're on the defensive, but you should be. If you still long for a private life, don't be married. You're still trying to sugar coat this, and not all of us fall for bullshit. I've seen enough cheating people to see the signs of guilt, and I wouldn't be at all surprised if you were still doing it with someone. Not sex per se, but contact with this woman or another woman. You don't have the demeanor of someone who realizes they have done wrong and are taking steps to correct it. You have the demeanor of someone who is just sorry they got caught, and is trying to spin the situation in their favor.
Originally posted by arsen
I can be an asshole too, you know.
I really don't think you want to try that here...
this is staceyv writing this:
arsen says you are "spitting on his soul" and that he opened his heart to you. he is very offended, especially by sycamore's coments, and he says he is never posting here again, and that i should delete his account.
don't kill the messenger. i think he has a hard time dealing with your brutally honest opinions. personally, i appreciate them, that's why i come here......thanks.
Originally posted by arsen
he is very offended, especially by sycamore's coments, and he says he is never posting here again, and that i should delete his account.
*pumps his fist* Damn I'm good!
People who are used to smooth-talking their way out of everything they fuck up usually can't stand up under close scrutiny. Spitting on his soul? Dramatic. Does that kind of hyperbole usually work with people? I guess I'm immune.
Stacey and Arsen,
My "commie" comment was out of line. It was not right of me to say that without Arsen being out of line...and he wasn't...yet.
I apologize.
Originally posted by sycamore
*pumps his fist* Damn I'm good!
Heh heh.. Dude, you spit on his soul!
Hey, maybe all Russians are really intense like that?
Dude asked to be despised and then got ticked off when he was.
I'd still go with the therapist.
Originally posted by sycamore
*pumps his fist* Damn I'm good!
I am pretty damn sure that is the first time I've seen anyone accused of spitting on someone else's soul.
Hey I'm Russian and I think I'm not "intense"...unlike my driving.
Didn't you supposedly lose your virginity to her? It seems like an inconsistancy here...
And Syc if you called him a commie I'm not surprised that he got pissed off...most Russians living outside of Russia do. Just cause we hold "commies" responsible for turning Russia into the shit hole that it now is and forcing us to abandon the sinking ship that it now is. Of course you couldn't possibly have known that so I think anyone who reacts so poorly to it is a fucktard.
It's too bad that Arsen was so intimidated by all the whale penis sized assholes here that he ran away shivering in fear and promising to never post here again.
Originally posted by sycamore
*pumps his fist* Damn I'm good!
Yeah, but if his soul was on fire, would you spit on it to put it out?
Quzah.
well, hell. that was anticlimactic. all that build up " he's coming on tonight to defend himself, blah blah blah......."
christ, they were just jabbing at him, testing his chin, and he goes down like a sack of flour. That's like cracking the pinata on the first swing. It's like .....it's like.....like ......fuck!
Arsen, don;t listen to those mean boys. they didnt mean to hurt your feelings....come on back, there there.....
on the other hand.
I dont really think arsen cannot be trusted. You gotta judge by actions first. he never shagged eva. by the sounds of it, he was in love with the idea of being in love. the fantasy and escape of writing eloquent and clandestine letters to a virtual mistress. You must maintain your own borders even within a marriage. some things must remain private. I mean, I think we all agree that Stacey is nuts, right? or at least dangerously annoying.... I think I'd have burried her out back long ago. First of all, she snooped. then she snooped even harder...then she posted it on the internet for people she doesnt know to read. she bashes him, and argues with those who would defend him. she writes a vengeful song about him, and posts that too. then she talks this poor fuck into coming on to try to defend him self against the highly literate. Christ, english isn't even his first language. what a set up. Arsen, have you beaten her for this yet?
I think you should leave her. she's fucking crazy, dude. it's one thing when a smart woman is controlling. She probably will help her man in the long run. but when an insipid vaccuum like this tries to control your life, you gots some woes, bro. not all american women are like this. you'll find a normal one. just keep looking. and for god's sake , dont knock her up.
lumberjim, you are an asshole who has no empathy or understanding of affairs of the heart, pain and confusion resulting from broken trust...i am really sorry i ever pm'd you and asked for your advice. up until now, i tried to see things from everyone's point of view, including yours, but now, your ideas and opinions are meaningless to me. go fuck yourself with your wanna-be whale sized penis.
I'd still go with the therapist for the best support.
Well we still haven't seen StaceyV. Naked. And Arsen, dude...you're FOUR FUCKING DAYS LATE!! This is unacceptable, I spit on your thread!
You two are a hoot, good luck.
Originally posted by staceyv
lumberjim, you are an asshole who has no empathy or understanding of affairs of the heart, pain and confusion resulting from broken trust...i am really sorry i ever pm'd you and asked for your advice. up until now, i tried to see things from everyone's point of view, including yours, but now, your ideas and opinions are meaningless to me. go fuck yourself with your wanna-be whale sized penis.
the thing is that i am really NOT an asshole. that's why what i said bothered you. i DO have compassion. I have ALL KINDS of empathy....for arsen. Sucks for you if the truth hurts. I tried to tell you early on that you were bringing this on yourself. I told you to stop trying to control him,to respect his privacy, and love him. You're behaving very badly, and will probably drive the poor guy away with this shit. would you stand for it? if you don't want people to be honest about how they feel about your dirty laundry, don't show it to them. moron
Originally posted by lumberjim
. . . if you don't want people to be honest about how they feel about your dirty laundry, don't show it to them. moron
Hurrah! Could not have said it better myself! Too bad it's too long for a Cellar Tag Line.
I just read this thread through for the first time.
Syc, did you delete a post?? Something's missing.
Anyway, I think Arsen is one of those guys (and I think it's the majority) that can't maintain a friendship with a woman, without bringing a romantic angle into it. I'm your friend because I love you and you must be my friend because I love you. That makes starting a sucessful marriage like starting a cross country trip with no money. It can be done but it's so much harder.
I honestly think this marriage in beyond repair. Tony may be right and a therapist might be able to straighten it out but I seriously doubt it and I'm sure without it there is no hope.
Stacy, whatever you decide to do, DO NOT GET PREGNANT!
Never mind Syc, I found it in the other thread.
Originally posted by arsen
Everything I do in my life I do for her.
Hmm.
I don't think that falling in love with Eva was done for StaceyV.
And I'd humbly suggest, after reading your post, that you may do better to get your head, heart, and life straight first - *then* start to focus on outside relationships.
I'm not doubting your love for Eva or for StaceyV.
I am, however, doubting your ability to be mentally and emotionally healthy for yourself, let aone for anyone else.
Wow. The cellar is starting to play out like a really bad soap-opera. :eek:
Anyhow. My take on the whole thing is that Arsen got married too young. Getting married at that age... you still hold onto a lot of youthful fantasies. It's hard to fully commit to another person when you're still learning who you are. I'm not saying that the relationship won't last... I'm just saying it will be harder.
And I don't think stacey is crazy, or a moron. She's just really emotional. It's a rough situation to be in... younger man... foreign born... knows he's bored... finds emails about a distant love... it's not a picture of the average relationship.
Of course I don't think she's handled this situation very well at all. I know why she came here... she wanted a range of neutral perspectives to help her make a decision. It seemed like a good idea at the time, and with most problems in life I'd agree. But considering the breadth of this one, the best thing would have been to not tell anyone, even your closest friends. Spend a few days thinking about how you feel about it, and if you still have problems then go talk to a shrink.
So what do you do now that the mess is already public? It's not going to get better. Arsen, don't try to justify your actions. Stacey, don't defend him, or yourself. Consider this whole discussion a sunk cost and just walk away. It was an entertaining display for all the cellar dwellars, but useful advice for your problem? Naw. Talk to the doc. Please.
Has anyone else noticed that it seems like Stacyv and Arsen vs. The Cellar now?
Clever move...clouding the issues by changing the focus. Classic.
Arsen, you can't be married to someone and in love with someone else. Won't work. I know. That (and the associated alcoholism from subconsciously trying to kill the turmoil in my head) was what ended my first marriage.
With the help of a good woman, a lack of booze, and quite a lot of psychotherapy for both of us, my second marriage is much more successful and fulfilling, and I'm not running around tearing myself up inside about a relationship that never was meant to be.
Focus on what you have, not what you "lost". I guarantee you that things will improve.
[COLOR=indigo]Hold the horse here.
I'm too lazy to wade through the current 7 pages of stuff in the the other thread (where the contents of this thread should have been posted), but didn't Stacey say that Arsen lost his virginity to this Eva chick?
IF that is true THEN one of the following must also be true:
(1) Stacey is lying to us on purpose. Arsen did not have sex with Eva and did not tell Stacey he did.
(2) Stacey is lying to us on accident. Arsen did not have sex with Eva but told Stacey he did. (see#4)
(3) Arsen is lying to us. Arsen fucked Eva and told Stacey he did, but lied to us.
(4) Arsen is lying to Stacey. Arsen fucked Eva and told Stacey he didn't.
Either way, it's not smelling right.
edit: Found it.
Page 1 And here is the reference, for those too lazy to click the link: [/color]
i read her e-mails to him and she says she doesn't understand why he loves her so much because they only dated for two weeks (he lost his virginity to her)
[color=indigo] Found it again
here
and the quote:[/color]
he has very little experience with women. he's slept with two people. his longest relationship before me was only a couple of weeks (eva).
Now I'm feeling kind of dumb. I took one side of this argument, but it was because I hate cheating so badly. But there really is a control issue here too. Oh well. He's still an asshat. (edited out even more stuff that demonstrates my propensity to speak before I read :P)
Originally posted by mrnoodle
Now I'm feeling kind of dumb. I took one side of this argument, but it was because I hate cheating so badly. But there really is a control issue here too. Oh well. He's still an asshat. But Stacey, you married him after 10 days? There's a whole lot wrong with this whole setup.
Oops, I think I just read too quickly through arsens (difficult to read, poorly formatted) post. He was talking about the time he spent dating his girly in Russia, not time spent dating his bride to be. The comment I made in my earlier post was based on that misunderstanding.
I removed my comment from the above post. Sorry for the confusion! (Although they still did get married rather abruptly...)
I think it's best if I just shut the hell up for awhile. lol.
The dangers of clicking "reply" too quickly are many, as I demonstrate far too often.
[COLOR=indigo]LOL I do it all the time, Noodle. There are times I sit here at work and write this big old long reply, and then read over it right before I post and realize that if it makes sense at all, it's abrasive, largely unhelpful, and in short, bitchy. So I delete it before I post it, and then refresh the page. Usually there are more replies by then, so I console myself with that.
I seem to having a bitchy last few weeks and I don't know why. So I apologize if I've been rude lately.
:)
[/COLOR]
After reading this particular thread, and polking through the other thread there are two things that I realized:
-1)Being single isn't all that bad. I only have to deal with my shit. Even when I'm alone on a Friday night.
-2)I never want to be a cop intervening in a domestic disturbance situation. Elspode mentioned it: as soon as the gloves came off and folks started talking honestly about what is, seemingly, a screwed up relationship, Mr/Mrs.StaceyV banded together and started attacking the folks that she had asked for help from.
One last note, Mr.StaceyV, if some random comments made by folks that you have absolutely no relationship with make you feel like someone has 'spit on your soul,' you'd best get a tad thicker skin, because living in the States is not gonna be easy for you.
Mr. and Mrs. StaceyV, the Internet will not solve your problems, and it is ridiculous to believe otherwise. No intelligent person is going to assure either one of you that you're a blameless victim here. You've both acted stupidly. You should exchange some heartfelt apologies, and start respecting one another's feelings. Marraige will not survive too many little self-absorbed bullshit issues, especially when both parties lie to themselves about the amount of blame they should absorb.
If you want a healthy marraige, keep outside parties uninvolved in your personal problems, with the exception of professional therapists... This includes best friends, parents, neighbors, and strangers on the Internet. To do otherwise wise muddies the waters by marinading the situation in uninformed bias.
Originally posted by lumberjim
if you don't want people to be honest about how they feel about your dirty laundry, don't show it to them. moron
Pretty god damned eloquent, Jimbo. Brilliantly put.
our family and friends do not know about this...it's easy to tell you guys, because i can just turn the computer off, and you're gone forever...
i THOUGHT arsen banged eva because he said he 'WITH" her right before me. what he meant was that she was his girlfriend...he didn't bang her. but he did lose his virginity to some other girl who he says "had a fat ass" and he didn't really care about. so, i am his second, and he didn't screw eva.
how the fuck am i controlling him? yes, i stumbled upon an e-mail message, because he left his account open. i saw a line that said "re: grupa dupa" and i was like "what is grupa dupa?" INNOCENT CURIOSITY....and after i saw him agreeing to have drinks with some girl, you are damn right i'm going to see what's going on with my husband.
it was HIS idea to make up that "agreement contract" and sign it. it was HIS idea to take me with him always when he goes out. he WANTS to do anything to save the marriage...how the fuck am i controlling him???????
sorry, but i am the one who was hurt and betrayed. i have never been anything but kind to him...supporting him when he was in between jobs, cooking for him everyday, waiting on the dock when his ship pulled in - with cookies and tears in my eyes...
i always trusted him until now. he used to go over his friend's house and drink with all the guys a few times a week all summer, and i had NO PROBLEM with that! i never read his e-mail before, even though i've had the password for months....don't come down on me like that. i am no "insipid vacuum"..i have my own job, my own hobbies, my own life. i am the one who sends off all the bills - on time- every month. i do the grocery shopping, lists, meal planning, 1/2 of the household cleaning, i pay 1/2 of the rent, utilities, car payment, insurance, gas, and i pay ALL of it if he doesn't have the money. i am no fucking insipid vacuum, and i am not controlling him.
Consider this whole discussion a sunk cost and just walk away. It was an entertaining display for all the cellar dwellars, but useful advice for your problem? Naw. Talk to the doc. Please.
i couln't agree with you more, riddil
STACY.
I'm sorry i called you names. I have obviously hurt your feelings. I apologize. You asked for my advice, and while I meant what I said, I didnt need to insult you personally. It was just that you did not seem to be hearing what i was saying about his privacy. My main message I stand behind, but the insults were unneccesary.
our family and friends do not know about this...it's easy to tell you guys, because i can just turn the computer off, and you're gone forever...
on this we agree.
I have one final bit of advice. next time, spin a situation like this as a hypothetical situation...." what would you do if," and keep the names and particulars out of it. You can get lots of objective advice from some smart motherfuckers like HP, and UT, and spare yourself the abuse from asshats like FnF and myself.
now go sit on arsen's lap, forgive him his indiscretion, and forget about Eva. he is with you now, and that's all he can do.
ARSEN
contact Eva, tell her that you enjoyed your time, but you will no longer be able to communicate with her because you have reaffirmed the commitment to your wife, and cannot afford another fuckup. thank her for the fantasy you shared, and don't respond to her reply. ever.
If you both cannot do the above, then you don;t belong to gether, and should begin amicable separation proceedings.
REGIS
this is my final answer.
[COLOR=indigo]And by forgive, he means in the bottom of your heart. That secret place that you don't share with anyone. There too. That means forgive truly. Not just saying the words. It means trusting him 100%.[/COLOR]
If he was a citizen, I'd say the same thing.
You know, I think lumberjim's words were harsh, but my god every once in awhile, people need to be shaken up. When I first read staceyv's problems, I had compassion, cuz i'm a nice guy. "Oh, it is never easy when you're in love and you get hurt," I thought.
By the time she posted her 14th NOVEL length post telling us how confused she was, I began to grow weary. People who do not honor their own boundaries and eschew grown up decision making really really really piss me off.
Stacey, I live in a town FILLED to the brim with idiots like you, so hopefully my words won't hurt you. There are plenty more where you came from, so maybe if Arson is too hot handle, you could easily find another pussy whipped eunuch to play victim to.
And now the husband comes in here, for what reason?
YOU BOTH ARE ACTING LIKE FREAKING 13 YEAR OLDS!!
CAN'T YOU SEE THAT? CAN YOU NOT SEE THAT??
HELLO?? TWO MORONS WHO USE A WEBSITE TO SOLVE THEIR MARITAL PROBLEMS BECAUSE THEY ARE TOO SCARED TO GET A F*CKING DIVORCE DESERVE ONE ANOTHER AS FAR AS I'M CONCERNED!
For anybody else who keeps reading these posts with utter disbelief, take heart. At least the pathetic union of Stacey and Arson puts two clueless wonders out of circulation.
~~~~~~~~~~aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaauuuuuuuuuugh!
Originally posted by FileNotFound
And Syc if you called him a commie I'm not surprised that he got pissed off...most Russians living outside of Russia do. Just cause we hold "commies" responsible for turning Russia into the shit hole that it now is and forcing us to abandon the sinking ship that it now is. Of course you couldn't possibly have known that so I think anyone who reacts so poorly to it is a fucktard.
It sounded good at the moment...he said he didn't like being called a "russki," so I suggested "commie." And I knew it could be a potential powder keg. He hadn't quite earned it though...I should have let him run his mouth a bit more...
Originally posted by juju
Heh heh.. Dude, you spit on his soul!
I think it's important to note that that comment might not have been directed at me. I wouldn't be surprised if it WERE though...
by arsenPLEASE DO NOT UNDERESTIMATE THE POWER OF MJ!!!
WHAT IS MJ?
I was thinking Michael Jackson...
mary jane...he used to smoke too much weed.
Originally posted by quzah
Yeah, but if his soul was on fire, would you spit on it to put it out?
I'd actually get him some water...unless he was pulling a Thich Quang Duc.
hey artie, learn how to spell his fucking name correctly before you go on and on about idiots...
Originally posted by staceyv
hey artie, learn how to spell his fucking name correctly before you go on and on about idiots...
oops...you missed the pun....
so maybe if [color=red]Arson[/color] is too [color=red]hot[/color] handle
-see ljim be a dick nicely and not rip on you.
can't....stop....posting....about......this.....
Come on guys, Stacey's guilty of an overactive drama gland and poor taste in men. She asked for advice, and has been (from what I can tell) honest about her feelings. Don't flame her too hard. But Stacey, come on. In how many languages must you hear the same diatribe before you start to see the point? There is absolutely no aspect of the relationship you have described that isn't screwed up. And people eventually run out of compassion if they see someone completely unwilling to take action. Feeding your melodramatic urges is like giving heroin to a junkie and we should all stop it. Likewise, hitting the junkie in the head with a 2x4 is counterproductive. You have your advice, make of it what you will.
Arsen is still fair game because he's a twat.
1) stupid pun
2) would have worked with name spelled correctly
3) how do i know he did it on purpose?
4) stupid pun
Originally posted by sycamore
I think it's important to note that that comment might not have been directed at me. I wouldn't be surprised if it WERE though...
I fear it might have been me spitting on his soul. My aim is off, I was going for the eye.
Spitting on my soul is Russian.
In English it means Ridiculing my core beliefs.
In Internet it means, Whoops, they aren't fooled and I'm gonna get hammered here. Time to bail out.
Originally posted by staceyv
1) stupid pun
2) would have worked with name spelled correctly
3) how do i know he did it on purpose?
4) stupid pun
so, you're trying to say it was stupid pun?
Originally posted by staceyv
1) stupid pun
2) would have worked with name spelled correctly
3) how do i know he did it on purpose?
4) stupid pun
[COLOR=indigo]Yeah, but you wouldn't have even thought about it being a pun if he didn't spell it wrong.
Then again, you didn't think it was a pun either way.
Just because you didn't get it, doesn't mean it's stupid.
[/COLOR]
i think stacey is still mad at me.
[COLOR=indigo]That's because you're a whale penis.[/COLOR]
[COLOR=indigo]By the way..... Arson is the correct spelling of the word. So unless he has a reason for spelling it that way ( like it's his real name ) then HE spells it wrong.[/COLOR]
that's funny. we sold a car to a woman named Cristina today. when i told her that she spells her name wrong, she failed to see the humor.
:rolleyes:
[COLOR=indigo]My given name is Nichole, and back in the day, that was the "wrong" way to spell it. Now it's accepted. I still have to spell it to people tho.
[/COLOR]
english spelling.
hard to misspell my name....there aren't many people named Lum, so it's kind of hard to refute. the surname Berjim makes people think i'm indain, though.
Lum
Originally posted by staceyv
but he did lose his virginity to some other girl who he says "had a fat ass" and he didn't really care about.
Joyous. So he's the kind of guy that took advantage of a fat chick who probably really liked him and dumped her after?
Nice guy.
Have a happy life.
Originally posted by staceyv
1) stupid pun
By their nature all puns are stupid.
This one happens to be quite hilarious.
You're just pissed of that it VOOOMED over your head and you missed it.
Originally posted by lumberjim
that's funny. we sold a car to a woman named Cristina today. when i told her that she spells her name wrong, she failed to see the humor.
People with fucked up name spellings, particularly females, tend to have a high incidence of mental health problems, especially borderline personality disorder.
We've noticed the same thing for people born too close to Christmas too, Christmas day being a very high correlation to crazy.
(Anecdotal evidence only. No controlled study performed)
EDIT: Come to think of it ... stacey shouldn't have an "e" in it ...
Originally posted by arsen
my job back, and PLEASE DO NOT UNDERESTIMATE THE POWER OF MJ!!! .... This is when StaceyV walked into my life.
You were stoned when you met her.
Explains a lot.
I didn't know Russians had souls?
arsen is a common male name in russian, and it is the correct, proper spelling.
the fat chick was a one night stand, she didn't like him. everyone is entitled to a one night stand, that doesn't bother me at all.
Why do you believe everything he tells you except "I love you?"
what would he have to gain by lying about his name?? nothing
what would he have to gain by lying about the fat chick he had a one night stand with? nothing... it's not a pretty story...
what would he have to gain by telling me he loves me? greencard, meals, personal accountant, personal hairstylist, personal shopper, sex, a nice person to be around for two years...
please stop.
please.
i can't take this anymore.
i'm unsubscribing from this thread.
i need a shower
Originally posted by juju
I didn't know Russians had souls?
lol No, Soviets didnt have souls.
I'm speechless. I honestly feel like... well... it's kinda like when you go to the circus, and you pay to see folks in the "Freak Show". When you finally see the show you're so mortified by the sight that you want to walk away.
But for some reason it's so damn enthralling you just can't pull your eyes away. :eek:
Jerry! Jerry! Jerry! Jerry!
When do the nazi miget tattoo lesbians come on stage?
NO, it's just life, is what it is... and we're all just trying to get through it.
Stacey isn't here looking for attention. She may be dramatic, but that's because she's an intensely emotional woman. She may be confused, but we're all confused, and why does that not entitle us to support or a little respect? She may like a little attention, but she doesn't desperately demand it like Luvbugz or April. She may be controlling, but she didn't come here trying to confirm her own approach to the situation.
And she is willing to put her story out here, and she knows that she may take a few hits in the process, and you have to respect that. Partly because it's rare, and partly because that sort of sharing should be what this place is all about, at least in an ideal world.
I think some of you have not read the whole thing carefully, and shame on you if that's the case and you insist on being flippant with your opinions. No matter what else is going on here, no matter who's right and who's wrong, no matter if it's "Springer-esque", no matter if you think you would never get into such a situation, no matter if you think S and/or Mr. S are being stupid, there are human beings in the balance here.
May you all be so lucky not to encounter this kind of confusion in your own lives. But some of you who think you're immune are going to wake up to a big ball of it some day.
And by the way, when you do, you're STILL welcome to bring it here... desperately hoping for some level of respect, and for some words that will help you work it all out.
amen. and now i am unsubscribing to this thread, too. i want to leave with undertoad's message being the one that i take with me.
That's a nice sentiment UT, and I agree.
But! Mr and Mrs V, it is so very risky to seek the opinion of uninformed outsiders on delicate situations like this. We don't really know either one of you well, nor where you're coming from. There is no way you can convey all of the pertinent information, there's a huge quantity of it, and much of it is abstract. Any advice we may offer is tainted by filling in the story's very large holes with experiences from our own lives.
For instance! I immediately identify with Stacey. I was involved with a Russian woman a few years ago, and after a time I became aware of a number of lies and half-truths, about some pretty important things, which she had led me believe. It was a shitty set of revelations... I felt used, betrayed, embarrassed, and naive. I became certain that she had no feelings for me, she wanted only to use me for citizenship and money. But she insisted that she loved me, and she sobbed broken glass when I ended the relationship.
So, the advice I instinctively want to give is, "The sooner you leave him, the less damage will be done." But what if Stacey, im a temporary attack of anxiety, has been a manipulative, emotionally blackmailing control freak, and Arsen were a genuinely nice guy, genuinely in love, who has long since let go of the former fling? That would make my advice, as well-intentioned as it may be, quite poor. And it could widen the rift between them, and help push it to the breaking point.
My point: Stacey and Mr. V.... if the two of you are incapable of resolving this problem on your own, seek professional, unbiased help from a therapist rather than well-intentioned but grossly underqualified and uninformed help from friendly strangers. A marriage is too important a thing to risk destroying with bias-polluted advice. Really.
The way I see it, Stacy approached the board looking for help and advice. She explained her situation. People gave her honest and good advice.
She explained some more about her situation. People repeated the same advice as before - which boiled down to get professional advice, and either completely forgive him, or end the relationship.
She kept explaining more of the situation. We hear the same advice given. By this point she has gone to get professional help, so this board has in fact pushed her to do something positive.
She keeps explaining more of the situation. By now what we are hearing is such deeply personal stuff it is making people cringe. Really, the best advice everyone has to give has been given by this point, real discussion is being more and more interrupted by snide remarks and wisecracks
She keeps explaining the situation. Now her husband is introduced, and we get tons more personal stuff. By now, we are far into freak-show territory.
Stacey, this is the only advice I have to give you, I think you have mined this board for all the advice and help you can get. I suggest you either approach people privately for more help, or finally make that big decision one way or the other before coming back here for more advice. This is of course my opinion, and others may think otherwise.
I honestly wish you the best.
Nice speech, UT. [COLOR=red]BUT[/COLOR], I think she's getting screwed. It may not be vindictive or even intentional, but it's happening.
I'm a Libra. On one side of the scales I put all the information they gave us and the other side gets all the other relationships I've seen or lived. I form an opinion which is all any of us can give. It's not good.:(
[COLOR=indigo]Not only that, but now the story is changing. And as (I think) UT pointed out, once we started picking apart Arsen's posts, she completely went to his side on things. As far as we're aware, nothing in thier relationship (aside from the bullshit "contract") has changed.
They aren't going to a therapist. They may have good intention to go, but lets think about it....he's not a citizen yet, according to her they have little money, and I know for a fact that if they try to go on welfare (for free therapy, if that exists) shit is going to hit the fan, because he doesn't have his green card yet.
The WORST thing you can do to this community is ask for advise, argue with us about the advice we give, and then FAIL TO ACT AT ALL.
See SierraMyst. (Or however you spell it).
I don't mind people asking for advice. We all have some to give. Many gave it. I don't mind her continuing to post and clarify the situation. I do have some respect for her, because I threw my shit down in the philosophy thread, and know how open to attack that makes you.
But I also know how it works. She ain't leaving him till she's damn good and ready, no matter what we say. She is still in that mentality. And maybe she shouldn't. I can't make that call.
But like Bruce, all I can do (as a Virgo) is take a critical look at the situation and the information presented to me, factor in personal experience, and I see all too clearly where this is going.
It's not pretty. And because I respect Stacey, and because I know where it's going, I gave my advice. I won't be mad if she doesn't take it, but I will be irritated if she does NOTHING. If you're going to do nothing, don't friggin ask in the first place.
[/COLOR]
he has insurance through the car dealership he works at. i already went by myself last week, and we are going together on tuesday. so, i guess we are doing something about it. it didn't accomplish anything for me when i went. i sat there and talked a mile a minute for an hour, and then we made an appointment for next week. he didn't say much, except that arsen has the emotional maturity of a 16 year old and that i am high strung and that i need therapy of my own outside of marriage counseling - no shit, sherlock.
arsen is continuing to treat me with love and kindness. he is always kissing me and saying he wants his wife back. he doesn't want a greencard deal, he wants me to love him like i used to...
eva and i are communicating through e-mails. she says she wants to be my friend, that i should be there for arsen and love him like a mother, etc. she says she will pray for our marriage and she will not write to arsen unless he writes to her first.
i want to love him and forgive him. i've already decided to stay. i am just having a hard time with it. i don't seem to have feelings anymore. i am numb. i can have sex with him, but it's cheap and shallow. i cook for him, but it doesn't make me happy that i'm doing something nice for him. and anytime i hear a song on the radio from when we were dating and falling in love, it makes me sick. our past is shit. i don't feel warm when he holds me and when he says sweet, loving things, i don't listen. so, i guess this is what i'll address in therapy. i really want to repair us, and i am hoping that someday my feelings will come back. and, we ARE doing something about it. p.s. i am a virgo too.
Stacey, it sounds like you have a lot more going on emotionally than just issues related to the marriage.
Go to a therapist, and NOT the same one that you are using for marriage counselling.
Stacey, it sounds like you are really making some positive steps toward resolving some of these issues. It will probably be tough for a while, but you are resolving yourself to fixing the problem, right? I admire your persistence.
one more thing, since i have decided to stay, i am now worried that i am such an emotional basket case because of all of this, that i'm going to push him away. i have to find a way to heal and to forget about all of this, and it seems to be the hardest part of all. i know that if things are going to work out, i need to stop thinking about it, get the fuck over it, and love him, but i don't know how to go about doing that. i can't sleep at night, i wake up all the time from nightmares, i am tired, i feel sick, i rotate between sadness, numbness, and anger all day. i just want to get over it and forget about it all. i don't want to push him away and ruin our relationship if he is sincere about his love, and i think he is. i wish i could take lumberjim's advice, and go sit on his lap and love him, trust him, and forgive him 100% and get our life back, but i am just a wreck..wolf, you're right about me needing separate therapy..i wish the insurance would cover that.
The insurance should cover that. Couples services are usually considered separate from individual.
Now your plan does probably have both yearly and lifetime caps on the number of sessions you can have ... check your plan booklet.
If they won't pay for you to go to a totally separate provider, is there another therapist within the same practice that you could also see? And schedule things such that you're only using their services about once every other week ... so you get a couples session then a private session, etc.
The amount of time you spend in couple's therapy may ultimately be shorter than the time you spend in individual. That's okay.
Oh, and you'll never forget. Don't obsess over it. The past cannot change. It's how you relate to your past and experience your present that counts.
Originally posted by wolf
Stacey, it sounds like you have a lot more going on emotionally than just issues related to the marriage.
And therein lies the crux. She came asking for advice regarding her relationship. The problem is that you simply can't be in a healthy/trusting/lasting relationship until you're settled within yourself. So no matter what advice she received regarding the marriage, it's all a moot point until she can fix her internal issues.
Healthy in, healthy out.
Oh, and I wish you luck with insurance in regards to therapy. They all preach about their great coverage, but when tested you'll find they only cover a few visits, normally enough to get you through a month or two, and then *poof* that's all until next year. To really get anything out of therapy you need to go for a solid chunk of time. So if you really want help you'll probably have to spend out of pocket. :(
i am confident with myself. i know i am a good person, i respect myself, i have talents and abilities, i am intelligent, blah blah blah. yeah, the psychiatrist says i need extra therapy because my mother treated me like an unwanted pain in the ass during childhood and she was a bad role model. but as an adult, i've read a lot of psychology/self-help books, i have overcome all that shit...i need the extra therapy mostly because arsen is the true love of my life and i am a basket case over reading those letters, and i hate my fucking job...that doesn't mean i can't have a lasting, fulfilling relationship. i know who i am...and yeah, insurance sucks. this one will pay for 30 visits a year, but we're switching to an hmo next month...god only knows what will happen. now, no more posting drunk for me. see you tomorrow when i'm sober.
If your therapist wants to treat you primarily for the way your mom treated you as a kid ... change therapists.
You need REALITY ORIENTED THERAPY focusing on your current issues and needs.
Originally posted by staceyv
i am confident with myself. i know i am a good person, i respect myself, i have talents and abilities, i am intelligent, ...
In my thoroughly unprofessional opinion, I see a woman tortured by her past but who has a fundamentally sound psychological infrastructure. Sorry to sound so clinical but just callin' it like I see it. In my opinion, the news is good because while you might have some serious issues personally, your "core" is solid. If push comes to shove, blow off the marriage therapy for the personal therapy. Work through the "my mom is fucked up and fucked me up in the process (join the club)" and I guarantee the Arsen issue will pick up some serious clarity. I don't see how a couples therapist can help if you are still F'd up (I don't mean that in a bad way - just that you come first, the relationship comes second and the relationship will never be better than your own state of mind).
Don't be in a hurry, tho. These things take time. Don't be surprised if, in the process, you outgrow some things that you now regard as indespensible.
Your passion is admirable.
[COLOR=indigo]Well, I hope things work out for you, Stace. I wonder, if at the end of therapy, you work through all your "stuff", and outgrow the emotional maturity of a 16 year old mate. Maybe if he gets his OWN personal therapy, he can grow with you, too, and hopefully you'll be growing in the same direction. That's really the crux of the issue. I really admire you trying to get your shit together. Listen to Wolf here, she knows her shit.[/COLOR]
So I am new this place and I just have a couple quick questions to Stacie how old are you and how many real relationships have you been in that have lasted over 6 months? I am not trying to instigate an argument I am just curious I have read most of the posts about the relationship and this has never really been brought up at all. (if it has I am sorry I just didn't find it)
Read
THIS thread, Nekee.:)
Quoting mrnoodle:
... I don't care how miserable you think your existence is, I don't care how you define love. When you marry someone, you are making a vow. You are promising them, in the presence of signed witnesses, that you are now taking the sacred responsibility of tying your life to theirs. This means that without the express consent of your life partner, you may not engage in a romantic relationship, a sexual relationship, or any other form of relationship with another person. And for those about to call me to task on this, you know what the fuck I mean. I'm not talking friendships, I'm talking mushy you-complete-me letters, secret meetings, etc. etc. etc. ad nauseum.
If you can't live up to your side of the marriage, don't get married. If you have any other reason other than undying devotion for getting married, you have the obligation to make damn sure the other party knows it in advance so they don't fuck up years of their life trying to figure out why the hell they can't make you happy. It's worse than mismanaging your love life. It's being cruel to someone you purport to love. That's not acceptable, and it sickens any right-thinking person.
------
If you think the relationship you had with another woman while you were married is proper and appropriate, then no amount of yelling at you will change your mind. You need to stop defending yourself and figure out why you are cheating. Your dick does not need to get wet to constitute cheating. It's a state of mind. That's my opinion, at least, and you certainly don't have to share it.
You also lose your privacy when you get married. If you have nothing to hide, there's no reason why both of you shouldn't have access to every file on your computer. Why the hell shouldn't she read them?
I realize you're on the defensive, but you should be. If you still long for a private life, don't be married. You're still trying to sugar coat this, and not all of us fall for bullshit. I've seen enough cheating people to see the signs of guilt, and I wouldn't be at all surprised if you were still doing it with someone. Not sex per se, but contact with this woman or another woman. You don't have the demeanor of someone who realizes they have done wrong and are taking steps to correct it. You have the demeanor of someone who is just sorry they got caught, and is trying to spin the situation in their favor.
end o' quoting mrnoodle...
All I can say is, BRAVO! I think that you expressed the reality of commitment in your early posts amazingly well. I feel the same way about cheating, but could never have posted my opinion so succintly and so...just...WELL. Regardless of whether he's an ass or not, your expressed views were a joy to read. You rock.
Never been accused of being succinct before. Take that back, damn you. :D
You can't make me, so there.
How bout if I modify it? Succinct, relatively speaking.
Better?;)
nekee, i'm 27. i had a five year relationship with my ex-husband starting at age 15. then i had a 2 1/2 yr relationship and broken engagement with a guy i dated from age 21. my ex-husband cheated on me, verbally abused me and stole my money, ruined my credit, threw hot water on my cat, and locked it in the closet one day. psycho, alcoholic asshole. the other guy was jealous, controlling, and very needy. he was also addicted to porno, wacking off, cocaine, ecstacy... i've had 3 or 4 six month relationships, too. arsen has treated me better than any guy i ever dated, and i've had quite a few boyfriends that treated me well, but didn't last long, because i wasn't ready for a relationship with them. i've done a lot of work on myself since the last dysfunctional relationship i was in.
Originally posted by staceyv
nekee, i'm 27. i had a five year relationship with my ex-husband starting at age 15. then i had a 2 1/2 yr relationship and broken engagement with a guy i dated from age 21. my ex-husband cheated on me, verbally abused me and stole my money, ruined my credit, threw hot water on my cat, and locked it in the closet one day. psycho, alcoholic asshole. the other guy was jealous, controlling, and very needy. he was also addicted to porno, wacking off, cocaine, ecstacy... i've had 3 or 4 six month relationships, too. arsen has treated me better than any guy i ever dated, and i've had quite a few boyfriends that treated me well, but didn't last long, because i wasn't ready for a relationship with them. i've done a lot of work on myself since the last dysfunctional relationship i was in.
Babe, look at it this way...people will only treat you as well as you let them know, verbally or nonverbally, that you expect to be treated. Relationship problems can always--well, usually--be fixed, as long as both parties are willing to work at it. The problem is, too many people opt for the easy way out. Relationships are never easy, and people make mistakes. It's how they deal with mistakes that makes the difference. If you two really love each other, I say work on it. Good luck to you, sweetie. My fingers are crossed for you that things turn out the way you want them to.
Sidhe
Stacey, you have more than a lot of shit to work on. Get thee to a therapist, pronto.
Originally posted by wolf
Get thee to a therapist, pronto.
But find out if he is alergic to corn oil before you start the sessions.
Originally posted by xoxoxoBruce
I just read this thread through for the first time.
I'm late, but I'm just reading this now...my god!
Stacy, whatever you decide to do, DO NOT GET PREGNANT!
I agree. Please, please, please don't bring a child into this dysfunctional situation. :mad: That would be one of the most selfish and inconsiderate things you could do at this point. If you feel the need to be a mother, wait until you are as "whole" as you can be (whether it's with this particular man or not), and then decide from there.
Make sure you do a decent amount of planning first.
Originally posted by OnyxCougar
Lum
Ooooooooooooooooo!!!! Neato! Japanese anime? I love it! :D
i have NO intentions of having a kid. i want to wait at least 5 years, or maybe longer if i'm with arsen, or, maybe never...but don't you worry about that.
Originally posted by staceyv
i have NO intentions of having a kid. i want to wait at least 5 years, or maybe longer if i'm with arsen, or, maybe never...but don't you worry about that.
Ah, but I do. I do worry about people bringing children into unhealthy households, because more than likely, that child will leave home and unleash themselves on society as dysfunctional adults (I quite frankly, I'm sick and tired of dealing with such folk).
But, good for you for waiting. Good luck.
Originally posted by ladysycamore Ah, but I do. I do worry about people bringing children into unhealthy households, because more than likely, that child will leave home and unleash themselves on society as dysfunctional adults (I quite frankly, I'm sick and tired of dealing with such folk).
O. MY. GOD. I don't think I've ever read a more self-centered comment in my
entire life. Someone ELSE's life is garbage. Some poor CHILD is born into a tumultuous homestead. And all you can say is, "your maladjusted child might annoy me".
Nice.
Tumultuous homestead? Try dysfunctional group that wouldn't even qualify as a family.
Maladjusted child? More like hoards, armies of screwed up monsters that will, without a second thought, take your property, security, peace of mind, liberty and even your life.
Originally posted by Riddil
O. MY. GOD. I don't think I've ever read a more self-centered comment in my [b]entire life. Someone ELSE's life is garbage. Some poor CHILD is born into a tumultuous homestead. And all you can say is, "your maladjusted child might annoy me".
Nice. [/B]
So I take it we can count you among those who are into the whole victim mentality thing, then?
Fucked up households churn out fucked up people, who in turn churn out more fucked up people. What's wrong with LS saying that, and what is wrong with saying that fucked up people are annoying? They are, and all the goddamn sympathy in the world isn't gonna change that. It isn't self-centered to point out obvious fact, and state how one feels about it.
No one can fix a damn thing about anyone until the person with the problem takes responsibility for it and works on it. No one ever got fixed by saying "I was an abused child, it isn't my fault." I'm sure that Rho has contributed to United Way somewhere along the line, or dropped a buck into a Salvation Army kettle to help fund drug-treatment and psych programs. What else do you expect her to do? Open her home and comfort the very people who would, as Bruce notes, fuck her over at the first possible opportunity.
That ain't the way the world works.
Originally posted by Riddil
O. MY. GOD. I don't think I've ever read a more self-centered comment in my [b]entire life. Someone ELSE's life is garbage. Some poor CHILD is born into a tumultuous homestead. And all you can say is, "your maladjusted child might annoy me".
Nice. [/B]
Someone's maladjusted child annoys me on MORE than a daily basis.
I think LadySycamore made a perfectly reasonable statement.
The selfishness is on the part of the parent(s) of the maladjusted little shits.
Originally posted by Riddil
O. MY. GOD. I don't think I've ever read a more self-centered comment in my [b]entire life. Someone ELSE's life is garbage. Some poor CHILD is born into a tumultuous homestead. And all you can say is, "your maladjusted child might annoy me".
Nice. [/B]
Erm...no. Those are
YOUR words/interpretation/assumption. What I [SIZE=3]
DID[/SIZE] say was
this:
" I do worry about people bringing children into unhealthy households, because more than likely, that child will leave home and unleash themselves on society as dysfunctional adults (I quite frankly, I'm sick and tired of dealing with such folk).
"
Gyah, I
HATE being misquoted...sigh.
Oh, and um..by the way, I didn't say anything that many others either have already said, or what they are thinking (and perhaps not brave enough to say).
Bruce said:
"Tumultuous homestead? Try dysfunctional group that wouldn't even qualify as a family.
Maladjusted child? More like hoards, armies of screwed up monsters that will, without a second thought, take your property, security, peace of mind, liberty and even your life."
Precisely. The last thing I want to do is to be looking down the business end of a gun at the local store, and behind the trigger is some kid who's Mom is a crack whore and Dad has disappeared (or if he's around, he's not much of nothing), and was probably abused for most of his/her life. I know people who have had this type of life (or something similar to it). My best friend from high school was abused as a child by an uncle, and the family was in denial about it for years. It affected her future relationships with men...she would end up with losers galore! (I mentioned one of them in another thread). As her friend, I had to put
MY life on the line for her ass so that she wouldn't get killed by one of these fools.
BUT, the thing is...she was with him for
TWO YEARS! Plenty of time to leave that situation, and try to improve her own, but noooooo! And she's been that way for years and years. *shakes head*
Ep said:
"Fucked up households churn out fucked up people, who in turn churn out more fucked up people. What's wrong with LS saying that, and what is wrong with saying that fucked up people are annoying? They are, and all the goddamn sympathy in the world isn't gonna change that. It isn't self-centered to point out obvious fact, and state how one feels about it."
Once again, you rule! ;)
No one can fix a damn thing about anyone until the person with the problem takes responsibility for it and works on it. No one ever got fixed by saying "I was an abused child, it isn't my fault." I'm sure that Rho has contributed to United Way somewhere along the line, or dropped a buck into a Salvation Army kettle to help fund drug-treatment and psych programs. What else do you expect her to do? Open her home and comfort the very people who would, as Bruce notes, fuck her over at the first possible opportunity.
{sistahgurl}Oh haaail naw!!!!{/sistahgurl}
But seriously, I
have been fucked over by some of those folk. I have done various things to "help out" with their individual situations, only to find out that they just recycle old bad habits and get into more messes. After years of dealing with that, it was time to let those people go. I was putting too much effort into them, and not enough into "fixing" me.
So, people can call it whatever the hell they want. I no longer want to deal with the bullshit, and that's.my.choice
AND my
RIGHT.
bad relationships = bad families
bad families + kids = bad kids
bad kids = bad adults
bad adults + relationships = bad relationships
it's a circular equation
we need a good plague.
oh, yeah, we have one. but when the government designed it, they targeted drug users and faggots. they should have gone after assholes....but i guess they saw some personal risk in that enterprise.
[/paranoid]
These days I'm not sure if i'm posting on cellar or a script forum for
The bold and the beautiful
All we need now is dave to come along and marry stacyv.
I'm with lumberjim
bad relationships = bad families
bad families + kids = bad kids
bad kids = bad adults
bad adults + relationships = bad relationships
it's a circular equation
we need a good plague.
Undertoad's, All My Children.:haha:
[COLOR=indigo]NOnono. Dave marries April, and screws around on her with StaceyV, which Arsen finds out about via the computer files, thus perpetuating an IRONY.
That's the Cellar's Multiple Lives to Live.[/COLOR]
i wouldn't bang any man of april's.
Originally posted by jaguar
These days I'm not sure if i'm posting on cellar or a script forum for The bold and the beautiful
LMAO!! At least we don't have to try to figure out "who's the daddy" of anyone's baby! :haha:
creeps away to watch B&B...Originally posted by staceyv
i wouldn't bang any man of april's.
[COLOR=indigo]Not that you wouldn't cheat.... just not with a man of April's. Interesting.[/COLOR]
i wouldn't cheat on him at all...i guess that came out wrong. step into my brain for a moment- this is what i was thinking of as i fell asleep last night:
"our history to me, our shared memories and past, used to be like a beautiful field of flowers to me. after i read those letters, it is like a herd of elephants trampled over that field and took giant elephant dumps all over it. now when i think about our history, all i see is elephant dung, and i can't see under it to see the flowers. THAT's how i feel."
[COLOR=indigo]If you truly love each other, all that elephant dung is gonna do is make the flowers grow bigger.[/COLOR]
that is the most charming, witty remark i have ever seen or heard of.
*shrug*
Awighty. If no one else sees any problem with what LS said, then I'll cede the point, it's really not that important.
I wasn't trying to argue from some sort of "victim mentality" perspective. I'm literally the biggest detractor of that argument. Further, I completely agree that bad homes create bad children. What's more is that I find them pretty durn annoying too. But at the same time I think it's tasteless decry someone's problems in a public forum, and directly to their face.
My office-mate is an old-timer who's been a smoker for 20-30 years. He quit a year ago for health reasons, but he still coughs and hacks from time to time. And yeah, it can get annoying when I'm trying to talk on the phone and suddenly there's a coughing fit in the background.
I don't pity his health since he made the choice to smoke for all those years. But I do pity the tough situation that he's in. It's annoying for me to listen to that coughing, but at the same time I'm sure that it's much harder on him since he's the one living with those problems. It's my minor annoyance, it's his rough life. I just think that pointing out another person's plight which annoys you is... well... rude.
UPDATE 3/2/04
any of you who have been following this whole story know about the agreement arsen and i made to help me rebuild my trust in him. one of the agreements was "arsen will bring stacey with him when he goes out or not go out" this was his idea, and i felt it was a little over the top, but since he was all for it, i was impressed like, "wow, he really will do anything to regain my trust!" so anyway, last night, he comes to my job and i buy him two beers. then he says he is going over "the russian's house" (where around 10 or 12 of his friends live and they're always drinking vodka...) i said "oh, did you forget about our agreement? you said you would take me with you, remember?" because, hey, even if it IS unreasonable, he DID make that agreement and until it is amended, he should stick to it! so, he says "oh, you're right. okay, i will go home and watch tv. call me when you're done working"...WELL, i called him 20 min later, and he never went home. he came to pick me up from work, and he was like "yeah, i went to the russian's house". IS THAT HOW YOU REGAIN SOMEONE'S TRUST? by lying? breaking the agreement that was put into effect for the sole purpose of regaining my trust? okay, it's not such a huge ofense that he went to see his friends, and i agree that the agreement was a little unfair, so he should have TALKED to me about that, TOLD me that he thought it was unfair and that he wanted to go there by himself, but no, instead he lied to me and did whatever he wanted. And i really was trying to get over all of this. this is like the last straw. it reminds me of when we both discussed whether or not to get health insurance. we AGREED to wait a year, so we could pay off some debts with that $130 a week. he was all for that. "okay, we will wait a year." what did he do? he signed himself up for health insurance the next day. he didn't call to let me know he changed his mind or try to tell me he wanted the insurance. nope. he's a lying, untrustworthy sack of shit that i was unfortunate enough to fall in love with, because love is blind and i am the biggest blindest fool of them all, well, not anymore. the light is really hurting my eyes now.
[COLOR=indigo]So what are you going to do?[/COLOR]
Originally posted by Riddil
*shrug*
Awighty. If no one else sees any problem with what LS said, then I'll cede the point, it's really not that important.
I wasn't trying to argue from some sort of "victim mentality" perspective. I'm literally the biggest detractor of that argument. Further, I completely agree that bad homes create bad children. [b]What's more is that I find them pretty durn annoying too. But at the same time I think it's tasteless decry someone's problems in a public forum, and directly to their face.
My office-mate is an old-timer who's been a smoker for 20-30 years. He quit a year ago for health reasons, but he still coughs and hacks from time to time. And yeah, it can get annoying when I'm trying to talk on the phone and suddenly there's a coughing fit in the background.
I don't pity his health since he made the choice to smoke for all those years. But I do pity the tough situation that he's in.[/b]
Yes...the tough situation he put
HIMSELF in. It wasn't like he could not have stopped that from happening. And he probably knows it.
It's annoying for me to listen to that coughing, but at the same time I'm sure that it's much harder on him since he's the one living with those problems. It's my minor annoyance, it's his rough life. I just think that pointing out another person's plight which annoys you is... well... rude.
Apple and oranges. His coughing will not affect your life in about 10-20 years. A child raised in a dysfunctional home and grows up without any type of counseling
WILL affect society in some way, shape, or fashion. Robbery, anyone? Theft, anyone? School shootings, anyone? Thanks, but no thanks. This is why professionals constantly tell people to break the cycle (of violence, of abuse, of whatever), so that the next generation of kids won't be affected by the adult's problems and pass it along to
THEIR kids. I mean, how long do you honestly think society is going to put up with such madness?
[COLOR=indigo]Stacey, listen to track one on my disc again. Listen to it. The lyrics, the music. Truly listen. Reply on the CMEP thread.[/COLOR]
Stacey, you made your own mess. I told you the agreement was too one sided ... more words for you to look up: relationship and partnership.
There is no Hell worse than what we make here on Earth.
Also look up the Second Law of Thermodynamics.
if it was too one sided, he shouldn't have agreed to it- he was all for it. all else put aside, he LIED to me and told me he was going home to watch tv, then he went straight to his friend's house. all this, and it's more important now than ever that he's honest with me. THIS is how he wins back my trust?
[COLOR=indigo]So what are you going to do?[/COLOR]
Originally posted by staceyv
THIS is how he wins back my trust?
Your inability to allow him to make choices in his own life, and have his own life independent of you, just as you wish independent of him, is how you show your trust?
Hooo boy.
[COLOR=indigo]Actually, Wolf, it's not about the contract any more. Arsen straight up lied. I think this has been said before, but if Arsen had said, "You know, I know what the contract says, but I really want to do to the russian's house," then that's one thing. But he didn't do that. He said he was going to one place, and went to another. He sais he was gonna wait on the insurance, but then didn't. It's about lying now, not the contract. He blatantly lied, proving he can't be trusted. The contract is a completely seperate (and fucked up) issue. I'm with Stace on this one.
But.... it comes down to... now what are you going to do, Stace. And I know you don't know, but that needs to be foremost on your mind.
[/COLOR]
i think it's a little deeper than just a lie. This was flagrant. assuming that the story is accurate, it seems to me that he lied because he just wanted to do what he wanted to do, and didnt want to listen to stacey nag at him. unacceptable. this is indicitave of a lack of respect. Using this incident alone, i'd infer that he does not want to put the effort into saving the relationship, and is simply paying her lip service to get his way.
the lie is just the tip of the iceberg.
I had advocated your trusting him, stacey, and staying out of his affairs. However, in light of this information, i'm starting to turn on that point.
I'm not going to say I told you so.:(
you're not?
would you at least infer it?
oh.....
I'm lurking to see if it plays out as I expected it would. So far, yes.:(
I have been trying to hold my tongue (yes, I type with my tongue... shut up), but this problem is a little too evident.
I would have to agree that, given the facts are accurate and no key point have been omitted from the story, that this is a demonstrable shortage of honesty and respect on his part. Both of which are required for a healthy relationship. Your actions should address this, either by communicating your feelings to him (assuming you have any hope that he'll respond in a way which can, over time, earn your trust back), or by removing yourself from the situation, temporarily or permanently.
Sorry you've had to take so many bites of the shit sandwich lately, Stacey.
Doesn't he owe you money? Is it possible that he's being passive aggresive in hopes that you'll just throw him out and relieve him of that obligation?
Don't do it. Don't let him up - just know what you're dealing with.
[COLOR=indigo]Surely you're not suggesting she stay with this piece of shit just to recoup her money?
Stace, this is the critical time.
With his recent behavior, do you really think you can trust him? From your responses, I'd say you don't.
You need to kick his ass out (or move out your damn self) and start divorce proceedings. Every day you wait is one more day you tell him with your actions that what he did was ok. It is obvious that what your words say don't matter. So, since actions speak louder than words, pack your shit and get out. He'll understand that. Then, when he's served with divorce papers, he'll REALLY understand that he fucked up.
Now, I'm not, by any stretch, saying that both of you weren't at fault from the beginning, or that he's a shit but you did nothing wrong. What I'm saying here is that for all intents and purposes, (and everything you've posted) this marriage is over. No need to prolong the agony.
I think you're trying to hold your marriage together by the strings, but you can't. I think this is where all your stress and anxiety is lately. I think that once you get out of it, and get away from him, and get started with your life again, that you'll be able to find that joy much easier than you can now. I think you already know its over, but you just don't want to face it, because it's too scary.
But as usual, I may be wrong. However, in this case, I really don't think so.[/COLOR]
Originally posted by OnyxCougar
[COLOR=indigo]Surely you're not suggesting she stay with this piece of shit just to recoup her money?
[/COLOR]
Yes, actually, I am. It seems to me that he's
trying to piss her off for a reason. I'd try to spend a little more time figuring out why and a little less time being manipulated.
[COLOR=indigo]How about getting the hell out, and starting the divorce papers, thus ending his free ride in the US? He has to find another American meal ticket now. Staying just does him a favor.[/COLOR]
Originally posted by jinx
Yes, actually, I am. It seems to me that he's trying to piss her off for a reason. I'd try to spend a little more time figuring out why and a little less time being manipulated.
Actually, IMO, to stay would be to continue to endure the manipulation. If she left, she would no longer have him around to manipulate her.
I guess, if I were in Stacey's shoes, I would not want to spend any more time trying to figure out why he treats her like this. I would probably just feel like I had had enough. Besides, even if he does tell her what is up, how can she believe him? If he lies about going to his friends' house, what stops him from lying about anything else? It's all fair game, now. I think this might be a major factor in why Stacey is so wound up, am I right, Stace? He tells her one thing and does the opposite in one aspect, but then expects her to believe wholeheartedly that he loves her. No wonder its driving her mad. It would me, too.
Stacey, good luck to you in whatever you decide to do. My suspicion is that Arsen is hard wired this way (inconsistent and dishonest) and it would take super-human patience and too much pain to wait for him to change. He simply won't. Right now, you are miserable. I am not going to tell you you should leave him, but you have to ask yourself if you can ever be happy with this person. So far, there is a pattern. He was dishonest in the beginning, with the whole Eva thing and now he has resolved to make things work, but is not fulfilling his side of the bargain (that he created.) How long can you tolerate, much less enjoy this? Of course everyone knows their own limits. You need to figure out where yours are.
Originally posted by case
Actually, IMO, to stay would be to continue to endure the manipulation. If she left, she would no longer have him around to manipulate her.
I guess that depends on what his motivation is. Could be it's just the "meal ticket" thing, but I have my doubts.
I don't think she should stick around and try to make it work with this guy - I was thinking about damage control I guess. You know there has to be lies that she hasn't found or figured out yet.
Or, maybe I'm just paranoid...
If he lies about going to his friends' house, what stops him from lying about anything else? It's all fair game, now. I think this might be a major factor in why Stacey is so wound up, am I right, Stace?
yes, case you are right. this was supposed to be a time for rebuilding trust and trying to restore the relationship and then this happens...RIGHT after he swore that he would be honest and open with me.
i'll give you his side and excuses just to make sure this story isn't all MY point of view...
he said he had to go there and talk to one guy about his mother. it wasn't to party. fine, but i did say that i would go with him after work OR he couldv'e explained that to me instead of lying about where he was going...he said he didn't think i'd understand. he said the agreement was unfair (but instead of telling me that, he just lied and broke it. that's not honesty and openess) he says he should be able to go see his friends if he wants. he is right. the agreement was unfair. why not talk to me about it instead of lying to me? it seems like he is AFRAID to be honest with me. he is afraid to upset me and is afraid that i won't understand. he is afraid to voice his opinions if they differ from mine, so he goes along with whatver i say, but then does whatver he wants. i tried to tell him when we made the agreement that i wanted BRUTAL honesty. i promised to not punish him for that honesty. if i didn't like what i heard i wouldn't hold it against him, because i would be grateful that he was being honest. but he just didn't get it. he's a people pleaser. he wants to say the "right" things to make me happy. he doesn't know how to stand up for himself, it seems. i think he lied to protect himself, not to be sneaky and deceitful, but to avoid conflict- BUT by doing that, he made it so much worse!
either way, my trust is gone, and i wonder if it would ever click in his brain that it is better to be honest about something that i don't like, rather than to lie to avoid an argument...i don't want him to be afraid of me! it's not like i hit him or scream and yell. i'm not abusive. i don't get it. i believe he loves me and he has so many good qualities. he just doesn't GET it.
[COLOR=indigo]**shakes her head** ok. Good luck.[/COLOR]
I may not know much, but I know this.
At least twice today I had to bite my tounge to prevent myself from telling co-workers that they had spit on my soul.
Originally posted by OnyxCougar
[COLOR=indigo]I think you're trying to hold your marriage together by the strings, but you can't. I think this is where all your stress and anxiety is lately. I think that once you get out of it, and get away from him, and get started with your life again, that you'll be able to find that joy much easier than you can now. I think you already know its over, but you just don't want to face it, because it's too scary. [/COLOR]
Stacey, let me state the obvious: OnyxCougar is speaking loads o' sense.
Leaving a relationship, especially when you love the person, is a horrible decision to have to make. You know you love him. He may indeed love you. But - as has been pointed out by others - the two of you are in a loop. A holding pattern.
Is this really what you want your life to be?
Back in November, I left my husband - packed up the cats and chinchillas, most of my books, and moved into an apartment on the other side of Philadelphia. We loved each other. Still do. But we'd been in varied states of being separated/working on our marriage/separated for nearly 2 years. What we were trying just wasn't working.
(I should add that it wasn't about abuse or cheating; it was about a lot of stuff, but the really nasty things weren't a part of the mix.)
I was waking up screaming on a somewhat regular basis.
Until the day I decided I needed to move out.
I moved out because we weren't in a healthy relationship. We weren't happy, we weren't finding a way to make things better. I thought that the distance would give us some time to decompress and figure out what we honestly wanted.
It did that.
And we're getting a divorce.
Which is the best - if sad - thing to do.
Now, I know that you and I are living different experiences, and I won't presume to even *suggest* what's best for you.
I will, however, offer you this:
One thing that helped me make my decision was a little experiment a dear friend suggested I try.
It involves taking a calendar and, without telling anyone else that you're doing it, rate your relationship on a daily basis for a month.
It has to be strictly about your RELATIONSHIP. Not the day-to-day work crap or driving crap or crapity crap. How do you feel about your lover?
A good day gets a :)
A bad day, a :(
A neutral day gets a :( , too.
At the end of the month, count up your faces.
It gives you a visual way to record your emotional ups and downs. I found it to be very educational - but then, I only got through about 2-1/2 weeks, truth be told, because by then I realized that just about every day was a :(
So. For what it's worth, I offer you the idea.
Stacey, moving out is TERRIFYING. It is. If you leave, you will change your entire life.
But ya know...given a choice between being where I was because it was safe and I was bound to be there by marriage promises, or to be where I am now...as hard as it was to leave...I have no reason to look back.
Figure out what you want your life to be.
Know that the ONLY person you can really truly influence in this relationship is yourself.
Another quick example:
I had a boyfriend, years ago, that loved me. But he cheated. A lot. And it hurt. Much more than a lot.
I stayed because I believed that he loved me, and that eventually he'd figure out how much he was hurting me...and then he'd stop.
I left when I realized that he knew he was hurting me. But he wasn't going to change who he was. And my being a martyr to the relationship made absolutely no sense at all.
It's your life, woman.
Choose to own it.
Be happy.
It sounds like Arsen is quite the character. I say leave him and make a better life for yourself. Nobody needs to put up with wondering if their spouse will be coming home later or will they be out partying when they say they will be home. That is just plain ridiculous. If he doesn't have his green card yet and you are the vengeful type make sure he never gets married again so he gets deported.
Please correct me if I am misremembering this statement. I worked evening shift tonight, and will head in for day shift tomorrow, so I can't go back and do the research right now ... haven't you (stacey) said in the past that you hate or at least dislike going with him to hang out with his friends, as they sit around and speak Russian, leaving you wondering what the hell is going on? Also, he may well have been going for some guy time to talk about YOU. Not the best situation for you to be in, present as the topic of conversation in a language you don't understand.
I'm continuing to take the position that the "contract" was overly lopsided, more restrictive on his part, and unworkable.
Your situation will continue to be a mess if you allow it to be. You cannot change his behavior, only your own.
I'm guessing you have not approached a counselor at this point.
Do so ASAP. You need some perspective here.
i was wrong about him lying because he is afraid of my reactions...that was, i guess, my twisted way of trying to rationalize why he is lying. we talked. he says he IS a liar and that he has a deceitful personality and that it's NOT my fault, i am a victim of it, and he needs to go to therapy and work this out on his own...he says it is just how he is and he wants to change, but doesn't know how. and i didn't coerce him into saying any of this, i just shut up and let him talk...these were his thoughts.
i think he was lying about being a liar.
Originally posted by lumberjim
i think he was lying about being a liar.
I'm not sure that's possible.
he posted this on a marriage message board:
Hi everyone.
My name is Arsen, I am 23 years old and i am from Russia.
I have married an american girl not so long time ago and we have the
issues that ruin our relationship.
To make the things really easy and simple is the question of trust.
I am the guilty party here and i have the balls to say it out loud.
I have never cheated on my wife, before or after we got married, in
fact she is the second girl in my life i have had sex with.
All the problems that we have is of my behaviour as an emotionally
immature person. This is marriage counselor's words but they are
true.
Iseem to have a natural ability to screw things up. I am not gonna
tell you all the bad things I did - the list is too long. I am
sinful.
BUT i never cheated on my wife.
The problem is that I have a deceitful personality. In my wife's
words I am a f..g liar. I am a liar. I do not feel comfortable with
her playing a detective on me - but I drove her to that stage when
she just have to.
Right now, after another screw-up it has been to that stage that my
wife does not trust me at all. Not a single sentence i say mean
anything to her. She laughs at my explanations, at my attempts to
start the things over, at literally anything I say.
I am feeling that I have lost her forever.
But I don't want to loose her!!! I love my wife more than everybody
in this world. Everything I do is connecting to the thought of her
in my mind - because that is for her....
How can I win my wife's trust back?????
What should I do - because the words don't work anymore - to gain
her confident in me again???
I am not trying to convince you that i "have changed" or I am
a "better person now" i am just trying to figure out the way of
reaching her intimacy level she once had with me.
i am not a bad person, i am a silly person. Fools don't learn on
their mistakes- i want to be a little bit smarter to learn on my own.
I realize now - after we don't talk at all - that I am the one that
needs a therapy and I just need to learn a simple truth - that I
have to be absolutely open with her and that means everything - even
the slightest thoughts I have. I need to learn how to be open to
her. I need to be explained why it is important to be open with your
wife - and I swear! - I always am the one to dedicate my life to
hers. i am going to see the psychiatrist next week but for now I
still have the question open - how to win her back?
Because I love her so much. She is the only bright light in my
perveted life...
Arsen.
It sounds like he tends to start talking himself down "I'm a compulsive liar" or making ridiculous promises "I'll never go anywhere without you", in order to get you to try to talk him down. This puts you on the side of trying to say he isn't so bad.
I'm not sure if it's working, but it's somethng to watch out for.
he posted this on a marriage message board:
We aren't therapists, Stacey. We all want to help but I don't think its a good idea to ask us to psychoanalyse your husband.
I'm just getting the feeling that you want us to tell you what to do so you don't have to take responsibility for the decision. I mean, at what point do you say: ok, I have shared some info about my marraige, I have gotten some opinions, I have thought about things and here is my decision.
I am not sensing that you are moving towards a resolution as much as you are relishing the agony of the situation. There are 149 posts in this never-ending thread and you are no closer to a decision then when the thread started.
The only person who can make your life not suck is you. We have all been there Stacey and we have all somehow summoned the energy to do what needed to be done to preserve our emotional health.
Its your marraige, its your life. Your instinct is telling you what to do so quit asking questions and get on with it.
of the 149 posts, only a handful are regarding his most recent lie, which sent me questioning evrything all over again. i HAD resolved the issue. sorry for bothering you all about it, then. i guess i'll just stop.
Originally posted by staceyv of the 149 posts, only a handful are regarding his most recent lie, which sent me questioning evrything all over again.
The information you have provided about him points to the conclusion that he lies a lot and will continue to lie a lot. So, to keep the thread going every time he lies is what led me to call this a "never-ending" thread.
At some point, you are going to need to take matters into your own hands and decide to either trust and stay or leave. My point isn't that you are bothering anyone its that you are choosing NOT to decide but instead restate the obvious and THAT is what is making my hair hurt.
I'm not trying to censor your thread - I'm suggesting that you quit complaining when your husband continues to do exactly what he has done in the past. This isn't an irreconcilable difference - it seems to me to resemble Elionwyr's situation where it just got to the point where the relationship was more trouble than it was worth.
I could be wrong about this but its my sense that you prefer a bad relationship over no relationship. Unless I missed something, I have yet to notice that you considered, if even only for a millisecond, the possibility of leaving him. To never have even considered it is not a good sign given how miserable you are. If so, then until that changes, nothing else will and we might as well convert this thread to a forum.
Ok I am going to inject my opinion into this thread. Stacy I am going to tell you a story about one of my past boyfriends. Before I met Alan (hp) I was involved in a 2 1/2 year relationship. This man and I had been friends all through high school but didn't start dating till several years after high school. He moved in about a month after we started dating. Fast yes, but I think you can understand this given how fast you and your husband moved in together. I loved him and I know he loved me but about 6 months into the relationship it started to go south. It was a bunch of little things but the heart of the problem was that this man was selfish. He put himself above all else, and when you are in a committed relationship you cant always do that. If he wanted to go out till all hours of the night, he did, with no regard to how I felt about it. He went to go see an ex-girlfriend while we were together (after he had told me at the start of the relationship that he would leave me in a heart beat if she would take him back). At that point our relationship was good enough that I knew he would never cheat on me, but I still didn't like him going there. Knowing this he still went, because he wanted to and that is what he based all his choices on. After a time I began to see that he was the way he was and wasn't going to change, and I wasn't going to try and make him change. It wasn't that he didn't love me but the way he loved me didn't suite the way i wanted him to love me.
I know how hard it can be to leave someone, I stayed in that 2 1/2 year relationship for about a year longer then I should have. And I was miserable that entire year.
I believe given all I have read posted by you and posted by Arsen (sometimes via you), that you love each other. Sometimes that is not enough. What you need to decide is, Is the type of love he can give, the type of love I want and need. People are the way they are, and while therapy is a good idea, there are still fundamental parts that cannot be changed. Therapy may change how he act for the time being but there is a high probability that he will revert to his old ways. I don't think he is a bad person, he is just who he is. But who he is may not be the type of person who will make you happy.
Again the thing you need to ask yourself and keep asking yourself till the answer is satisfactory to you is:
Is the type of love he can give, the type of love I want and need.
When you have the answer to that then you will know what to do with the relationship.
[size=1]EDIT: Fixed my messed up grammar[/size]
Originally posted by staceyv
he posted this on a marriage message board:
Hi everyone.
My name is Arsen, {snip}I have never cheated on my wife, before or after we got married, in fact she is the second girl in my life i have had sex with. {snip} I am a liar. {snip} Arsen.
MY FINAL THOUGHTS ON THIS:
Is the type of love he can give, the type of love I want and need?
yes, with the one exception.(trust issues) i can overlook him being immature and irresponsible, because i can balance that out. just like he balances out my introvertedness by being the social half, and my pessimism by being the optimistic half. and he is loving, affectionate, attractive, generous and sexually compatible with me.
i know that noone is perfect, and i have dated and been in relationships with a lot of men, and i find him to be most compatible with me.
so, maybe i am being an overly loyal and optimistic fool here, but i am not ready to let it go. i want to wait and see if he goes to counseling, if he makes a REAL effort to be honest with me, even if it's uncomfortable for him, and just see what the future brings.
i am not ready to be loving with him or to trust him, hold him, cook for him, really, he's not getting much from me for awhile...i have distanced myself sooo much, but i want to wait and see what time will heal, and i want to see what his efforts are. and i know that i'll come around soon enough and start being nice, because he has that effect on me. it hurts me to be cold to him....
but i also know, that if something happens in the future to make me question our relationship, to make me feel this way, to make me doubt his honesty and intentions with me, i WILL leave him. you can hold me to that one.
Now, that sounds like a woman in charge of her life making a decision with conviction instead of out of desperation.
I suspect y'all are going to have to meet in the middle on the trust thing, tho. Work hard at the relationship, demand to be treated fairly, equally and respectfully, and never put the relationship above yourself and you will be fine. Good luck!!
This is only going to last until the next phone call from a female to the house. Or the next time he wants to go out with his friends, or the next time he has any issue with staceyv over some aspect of her behavior.
Is the type of love he can give, the type of love I want and need?
yes, with the one exception.(trust issues)
Then Stacey, the answer is no. A question of such importance cannot have an answer with caveats and exceptions attached to it. It's yes or no. Period.
You remind me of my brother. He's living with a girl who won't even let him have a
key to his own house. She treats him like dirt and says the most horrible things I've ever heard come out of a person's mouth. He complains about it, tells me how much he hates it, but guess what? He stays. He is obviously unhappy and he is obviously in a doomed relationship. But he hasn't left, and he refuses to do so. And now she's carrying his child. This is the worst-case scenario.
You, on the other hand, are in a pretty good position right now. You're not happy, and deep down, I think you know you will never be, in this relationship. Be honest with yourself and you'll find your best course of action blindingly clear.
Your husband is a dick. I've seen his type and guess what? He isn't gonna change. Honesty with your spouse should never be uncomfortable. If I ever had a problem being honest with my wife, it would be because I fucked up real bad and expected her to leave me over it.
post deleted by limey - me and my big mouth :blush:
The discussion makes me uncomfortable becase Arsen's actions were clearly passive-aggressive and I'm pretty passive-aggressive. If a woman told me I couldn't go see my friends, I might say fine, and then just go see them anyway. That would be how I might assert myself - indirectly. Why have conflict today when you can put it off until tomorrow?
Well, unless I was in a healthier relationship than the one I was just in for a long time. Maybe it would be different then.
Oh, and I just want to note, I'm not saying I'm not a dick.
I might well be one, can't tell from this point of view.
We are only seeing stacey's side of this equation.
We haven't enough of arsen's to make any kind of reasonable guesses as far as his actual behavior or motivations.
We're just hearing the words of a wounded, pissed off woman, who is not in a position to present anything the poor guy does in a positive light.
And no, Stacey, don't take this as a request to force him to participate here. It isn't.
We are seeing arsen through stacey's eyes right now ... and she may needs some 'glasses' -- not rose colored ones, but realistic-colored ones.
Originally posted by wolf
We are only seeing stacey's side of this equation.
We haven't enough of arsen's to make any kind of reasonable guesses as far as his actual behavior or motivations.
We're just hearing the words of a wounded, pissed off woman, who is not in a position to present anything the poor guy does in a positive light.
And no, Stacey, don't take this as a request to force him to participate here. It isn't.
We are seeing arsen through stacey's eyes right now ... and she may needs some 'glasses' -- not rose colored ones, but realistic-colored ones.
You're right. I take back calling him a dick. But I stand by the rest, for now. :)
jinx says I'm passive aggressive, too. I don't think I am, I think it's just her being mean. Is that passive aggressive of me to say?
wolf, you obviously missed the part on page 10 where i posted his point of view.
Passive aggression makes no one happy and is inherently decieptful at its core, imho.
Better to say: "Woman, I need some time with my peeps so back off."
Passive aggression is definitely not a long-term solution to the party who deploys it in response to a perceived inequity in the relationship. The power it seeks to subvert will surely be brought to bear against it resulting in a vicious cycle of "control"/"subvert"/"control more"/"subvert more." Nip it in the bud and stand your ground from the get go then you never have to worry about it again. Turf staked out is turf maintained. Just my $.02.
Originally posted by staceyv
MY FINAL THOUGHTS ON THIS:
Is the type of love he can give, the type of love I want and need?
yes, with the one exception.(trust issues)
Which is a HUGE issue.
Do not underestimate it.
I'm agreeing with the others. If there's one part of this equation you can't accept, you're going to keep on being unhappy.
...i have distanced myself sooo much, but i want to wait and see what time will heal, and i want to see what his efforts are. and i know that i'll come around soon enough and start being nice, because he has that effect on me. it hurts me to be cold to him....
It's NOT that easy to come back from being distant.
It will become a Very Large Issue in your relationship, if it's not already.
Conversely, if you keep changing your mind - "I'm distant and cold because you've hurt me but I love you so I'm going to be nice now" - that not only creates more problems in the relationship, it also keeps the cycle going.
As I said - been there, done that, have a nice lil' place of my own now.
But if you want to talk offline at any point, please feel free to PM me.
Good luck!
Originally posted by staceyv
Is the type of love he can give, the type of love I want and need?
yes, with the one exception.(trust issues)
This answer tells me that you don't have the answer to my question yet. But thats ok. No one said you needed the answer today. As long as you keep this question (Is the type of love he can give, the type of love I want and need?) in your mind then at some point the answer will become clear. It will be a yes or no answer with no exceptions or buts attached. I applaud you Stacy for trying to stick this out. Perhaps the relationship can be salvaged, and only by staying can you find that out. But I ask that you maintain a sense of reality through all the working out so that you don't stay longer then you need to. The one issue you mention as being a problem in the relationship (the trust) may well be the one thing he cant change. As under toad said, maybe he is passive aggressive. That doesn't make him a dick, but it does mean he may not be able to change that. Therapy may help, for a while but I suspect he will revert to his old ways after some time has passed. This is the part that worries me. I worry that he will change for the time being, you will go back to being happy and a year or two down the road you will be facing these exact same problems. By then you have invested several more years in the marriage and it will be ever harder to leave. And what if that time he doesn't want to go to therapy again? These things are not something I can answer for you. Only you can know when you are happy, and only you can judge (if/when the time comes) when you need to get out of the marriage. I do wish you luck on whatever the outcome is.
[COLOR=indigo]Stacy will stay until she has had enough. Nothing anyone can say to her will change that. No amount of reasoning, counseling, therapy or anything else will change her mind. She knows what is wrong, she knows what the reasonable course of action is, and she will either not take it at all and get herself into a worse position or something will happen and it will cause her to "have enough" and then it's over. Nothing we can do to speed it along.
Either way, I'm done with the advice portion of the program. I just keep saying the same things over and over. So if you want to hear more of my advice, just re-read my posts. :)
Good luck.
[/COLOR]
Originally posted by staceyv
wolf, you obviously missed the part on page 10 where i posted his point of view.
YOU posted "his" point of view.
let's see ... that, plus the little bit he posted himself, that makes, as of right this minute ....
What, like three and a half posts out of
344?
Balanced.
yeah.
Originally posted by perth
You're right. I take back calling him a dick. But I stand by the rest, for now. :)
Well then, I'll say it: He's acting *like* a dick. His behavior is deplorable. The only thing that I can say for him is that at least he's admitted it.
HOWEVER, if he
KNOWS that he's this way, then he damned well should not BE with anyone until he's able to change (or at least control himself better). All he's doing is screwing up Stacey's head up, and stressing her out and making her question a lot of things. IMO, she's using up vital energy that she could be putting to better use...like to heal herself and make herself stronger in order to face what the world is going to throw at her (and boy oh boy, we could all use a titanium backbone to deal with the crazy ass world today!!!).
Basically, it sounds like the trust in him is withering away. He definitely needs to regain her trust, and IMO, she needs to be away from him to do that.
Originally posted by ladysycamore
Well then, I'll say it: He's acting *like* a dick.
That's a subtle, but important difference. :)
Originally posted by perth
That's a subtle, but important difference. :)
Sounds to me like both apply. Yes, he is acting like a dick. And from the sounds of it (based on Stacey's comments) he has been acting like a dick for a long time. So, at what point is he actually a dick? Maybe he is an occasional dick...or a non-dick with dickish tendencies. /shrug.
I heard that his favorite author was DICKens, that he likes to DICKtate letters, and He collects DICK Tracy comics. But i could be wrong. beats the dickens outta me. dickjab.
How is he a dick? let me count the ways.....
if it looks like a dick, and smells like a dick, it must be a dick
Originally posted by lumberjim
I heard that his favorite author was DICKens, that he likes to DICKtate letters, and He collects DICK Tracy comics. But i could be wrong. beats the dickens outta me. dickjab.
How is he a dick? let me count the ways.....
if it looks like a dick, and smells like a dick, it must be a dick
You dick.
:cool:
He looks SO enthused to be getting married to StaceyV,
yeah but she looks fabulous!
It's been brought up before.But Stacey and Arsen look EXACTLY as I imagined them.Stacey,you look a little like Marisa Tomei in "My Cousin Vinnie".
Arsen. Dude. We need to have a looooooooooooooooooooong chat.
[COLOR=indigo]Man! Stacey! That black hair looks GREAT on you!!! I really like it... I can't see you as a long haired blonde...[/COLOR]
Originally posted by OnyxCougar
[COLOR=indigo]Man! Stacey! That black hair looks GREAT on you!!! I really like it... I can't see you as a long haired blonde...[/COLOR]
I thought the same thing, but I thought I was biased, because I also have short black hair.
thanks, guys! i always loved that chick from my cousin vinnie...
he has that look on his face in lot of the pictures. the look a teenager would get when they have to go visit granny in the nursing home and give her a kiss...know what i mean?
and i'm all goofy happy, like i'm marrying the love of my life or something...
Originally posted by lumberjim
if it looks like a dick, and smells like a dick,
{snip}
*Cough, cough!!!* :vomit:
Originally posted by staceyv
thanks, guys! i always loved that chick from my cousin vinnie...
he has that look on his face in lot of the pictures. the look a teenager would get when they have to go visit granny in the nursing home and give her a kiss...know what i mean?
and i'm all goofy happy, like i'm marrying the love of my life or something...
*puts on her cussin' out hat on!*
Gurl, if I
EVAH hear you putting yourself down again, imma reach through this hurrr computer and smack you into the middle of next year!! :D
Seriously though, your picture is gorgeous (and hey, he ain't so bad either!). The black hair seems to suit you. I agree with Onyx: can't see you as a blonde so please please! stay a brunette. There are enough blondes in the world. :rolleyes:
Dude.
Stacey. You're hot. :eek:
Arsen isn't bad looking either, for that matter.
I admit it, I had pictured you both as.....more Springeresque.
Originally posted by staceyv in this thread
are you guys all going to that "would you hit this" site and rating "no" for arsen?!! please don't do that. it's not very nice :confused:
Wow, you really are doing a number on ol' Arsen. How long until you tell us that he can't get it up? Or that he wears panties? At what point will you be "even" with him? Where is this all going?
Good god, who was the dumbass that revived this thread?!
it's like peeing in the corner. why the corner? cuz you want to know its out of the way. i didnt want to discuss this in the cool site thread.
hammer.
oh come on, this thread is like that taco I ate two days ago. Just when you think its gone, it revives its self from the deep dark place it had receded to.
Sorry I just had to say it.
lumberjim, i think that arsen is HOT. i thought he would get good ratings and it would make him feel good. i'm not trying to do a number on him. that picture just doesn't do him any justice, i guess. i haven't even shown him the results of that, okay??
i was just having a little fun submitting our pictures, that's it. he doesn't wear panties, either. i don't have anything bad to say about him...yeah, he drives me crazy, but i honestly think he is attractive, bangable, intelligent and charming. so you can stop sticking up for him now.
*opens time capsule*
oops
Some people can't hold their organic whole milk and it makes them do crazy things.
He looks SO enthused to be getting married to StaceyV,
[ATTACH]70794[/ATTACH]
Joke's on us. Turns out Staceyv became Maggie on Walking Dead and is now loaded.