need advice really really bad

i met my husband march 30 2003
we moved in together in April 2003because it was convenient for us both. we slept together, said i love you, etc.
by september, 2003 we were married.
my husband is from russia. he is 23, i am 27. we had a whirlwind romance. he was so romantic...i totally fell in love with him. please keep these facts in mind while you read the following e-mails he wrote to his ex-girlfriend who he dated about a month and lost his virginity to.
(the dates are important) please give me your honest opinion. he says now that he loves me and he is happy...





Forwarded Message [ Save to my Yahoo! Briefcase | Download File ]
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 05:22:37 -0700 (PDT)
From: "eva

--- Jay Gatsby <peepshower@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Hi
> It's hard to write to you, Eva
> I ...
> I changed a lot.
> I am not anymore that boy that you knew.
> I am a man now. I run 2 businesses, live with my new
> girlfriend and building my life.
> I wish I could build it around you, but you had
> responsibilities and duties in front of your family
> and I respect it.
> I am working on my Green Card right now and MAYBE by
> the end of this year, who knows, I will get it.
> The only thing I am still thinking of is you. I wish
> you were here, by my side watching my success -
> hence
> I am doing it only for one reason - to speed up the
> time I will see you.
> I remember everything we had and that was the best
> time in my life so far...
> Take care, be nice girl which you are anyways.
> I will always love you.
> Sincerely, Arsen
> PS
> I don't know anything about Brazilians - I have
> different life now, I haven't seen them in a while
> PS#2
> I can't help you with the applications - I have
> helped
> around 20 guys already and all my sourses are
> exhausted. Next time ask me about that a little bit
> earlier...
> Bye.
>
>
> _______________________________________________Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 21:48:41 -0800 (PST)
From: "Arsen
Subject: Re: zdravstvuj
To:



Plain Text Attachment [ Download File | Save to my Yahoo! Briefcase ]

Hi eva.
Everything is fine, looking for a better job, getting
together with married life.
How are you?
If you need a contract from me, write me again with
empty contract form and your details, passport data,
address, phone, where to send the contract, do you
like sex and breast size. :-)))
No pictures now, i am in looking for a job mood. A
cold broken winter is ahead of Newport, RI!!!
Brazilians no live together no more, but i can contact
them.
No cell phone right now either, when i get one, you
will know first.
Address -
my data is in the bottom of the page, +

Say hi to
Ciao, Arsen
PS Its good to be married!!!
:-)
PS#2 Im online always.

PS#3
Behave

=====

Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 14:17:48 -0700 (PDT)
From: "arsen
Subject: Re: grupa dupa
To: "eva



Plain Text Attachment [ Download File | Save to my Yahoo! Briefcase ]

Hi, my love.
How is the South Korea?
I am worried about you because of the SARS that is
somewhere over the East - I can't get normal
information in here - you know.
I still here, in Newport, and its boring.
I saw Barbora the other day, and I will write you a
nice letter with her - you will get when you're back
in Slovakia.
Do you have a phone number in Korea?
It could be fun to chat with you when you are there.
Gruba Dupa Josie says hi - she is cool, she bought a
car and got fired from Benjamin's :-)))
Everything is still the same here - we just need
couple slovakian curvas in here....:-))
Write me back, with your phone number, we'll chat.
love, Arsen


Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 09:35:00 -0700 (PDT)
From: "arsen
Subject: I miss you
To: eva



Plain Text Attachment [ Download File | Save to my Yahoo! Briefcase ]

Hi.
How are you?
It's so boring in here... You can't imagine.
Listen, there is a possibility that I evade to Europr
this year.
I might get job in Holland - in Amsterdam, I know some
people over there and they want me to work for them.
I am not sure about the details, but I am thinking
about it.
The only thing I lack is - CITIZENSHIP!!! :0))))
And this is a momemnt where you can help.
If you still want to.
Eva, I will write you more details, in about a week.
Love you, Arsen



Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 21:49:20 -0700 (PDT)
From: "arsen
Subject: for my only one
To: "Eva



Plain Text Attachment [ Download File | Save to my Yahoo! Briefcase ]

I can't write right now - don't have time.
Please, do me a favor - tell me
when is your birthday and your full address in
Slovakia - I will explain everything later.
With love, Arsen

__________________________________

Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 19:30:20 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Arsen
Subject: Re: for my only one
To: Eva



Plain Text Attachment [ Download File | Save to my Yahoo! Briefcase ]

Hi Eva,
Miss you.
A lot of internationals but non of them compare to u,
kokotko....
Nothing compares 2 U, remember?
I will try to write more often, I promise.
Love you, Arsen



=====


Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 20:32:41 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Arsen
Subject: Re: for my only one
To: "eva klimcikova"



Plain Text Attachment [ Download File | Save to my Yahoo! Briefcase ]

Hi, love.
Everything is OK.
I am still waiting on my green card situation - don't know how
it is gonna be.
miss you.
Newport has changed a lot - it is not the same without
you.
How is Italy?
I wish I was there with you.
Love country :-)
Be careful with those arabs, they are VERY sneaky.
They use planes as rockets, remember?
:-)

In return to your kiss (friendly) I am sending you my
picture (even more friendly one).
Don't get lost on me, the international girl, we've
had so much together and that's gonna be forever.
Love,
Arsen
PS there are couple Slovaks arond here now.
History is repeting itself, indeed.
take care

====

You shouldn't be snooping in someone else's email. And you definitely shouldn't be posting other people's email here.

I don't think it takes Dr. Phil to figure this one out. I'd go with what your gut is telling you.

Do you guys have a kid?

Is this the guy who was lost in "the perfect storm" a few months ago?

What a fucked up situation you have there, I'm not even going to crack a joke.

Should be interesting to watch develop tho, he obviously uses the internet and I'd be skeptical if he wasn't aware of this place.

I wouldn't invest too much emotion into that relationship. Enjoy it until he gets his green card/citizenship, if you want to.

I would confront him about it and see what his response is.

You are in for a broken heart, sooner or later. If you can get enough out of what is good now, and not worry about later, then go for it; but I, too believe you'll be dumped as soon as citizenship comes his way.

Bad thing about snooping people's computers...sometimes you find out things you'd have rather not known.

yes, he was lost in the storm. no we don't have kids. since we got married, he stopped telling that girl he loves her and he honestly really truly acts like he loves me. he didn't even want to get married, he said he wanted to wait and do it right, but i pressured him because every time he came home late i was having visions of him getting stopped by the police and being caught by immigration and being deported and it scared me to death. i pushed the issue. he knows i read the e-mails. whatever, it started as an accident and turned into serious research, and i deleted the e-mail addresses and full names.
i am just so shocked that last summer he was sleeping in my bed, telling me he loved me and writing those letters to someone else and it makes me doubt the whole marriage. he swears he loves me and plans on being with me until death do us part, he no longer loves her, he's not the one who pushed the marriage, he didn't marry me for a green card. he keeps calling me honey and trying to kiss me and asking me why i am acting this way. i don't know whether to forgive him because we are happy together and love each other, or divorce him because i don't know if i can trust him and when i really fell in love with him, he was in love with her. it's all based on lies....WTF??? help? please.

Did you pressure him or did he get you to pressure him?

Did you convince him or did he turn you around to think you were convincing him?

Why does he ask why you are cold to him now when he should know why?

Has he shed any tears over the possible loss of you as a result of this situation?

Did you pressure him or did he get you to pressure him? how should i know? i mean, i didn't say "you have o marry me!!" but i did cry and tell him that i worry so much and i don't care about the ring, the whole party, etc.. i just wanted to know he'd be around

Did you convince him or did he turn you around to think you were convincing him? see above

Why does he ask why you are cold to him now when he should know why? it's more like a whining thing "honey, whyyyy? huh, why do we have to go through this? it was a year ago! i love you, stop analyzing everything, i love you...

Has he shed any tears over the possible loss of you as a result of this situation? no. but he cried when he watched christina agueilera (sp?) win her first grammy on a television special - i'm serious, and also everytime he watches titanic. we haven't discussed it at length. he stopped home and tried to act like everything is fine. i told him i don't know if i even want to be married to him anymore. he looked a little panicky. he said "why do you have to do this when i'm having such a busy day at work? i didn't marry you for a green card!! can you pick me up from work" reply: "no" then, he left and sped down the street.

Wow, sorry you had to inconvenience his rough day with your trivial insecurities about the relationship.

I don't mean to be short about this. I'm so sorry this confusion is happening. It's never easy, and you don't deserve this kind of thing.

This post is about women in general and how it's typically easier for a man to con a woman into marriage, rather than vice versa. So stacey, if you don't feel that this is a match for how you feel, then disregard this post.

Many women judge how much a man loves them by his direct actions. It's measured by how often he says he loves you, or how often he surprises you with a gift, and by the compliments he offers. Love is felt through reinforcing words/actions that are directly expressed.

But most men measure love differently. You can flood him with gifts and compliments, many of which are forgotten 5 seconds later. A man measures love by the things that his S.O. sacrifices to help him. A romantic dinner is OK. But a dinner you cooked for him when he knows you worked a long hard day and then spent hours in the kitchen will send his heart a-swelling.

That's why it's easy for con men to fool the average woman. He can be devoid of feeling, and yet force himself into a regiment of compliments & gifts which the woman observes to be symbols of his love.

Anyhow, you take this next bit with a grain of salt b/c you're probably a little too observant of his behavior right now. What I'd recommend is to not only be grateful for his kind words, but also measure what he sacrifices for you... even the insignificant things, like buying whole milk for you when he prefers skim. Does he make personal sacrifices to make your life better/happier? Or when it comes down to it does it seem like if anything is better for *him*, then that's the way it's going to be? [SIZE=1](Don't get carried away though, don't expect a man to always sacrifice himself, just watch for the occassional ones that prove he's thinking about you, and values your happiness).[/SIZE]

It's much, much harder to fake that behavior, especially since most con men expect only their words/gifts to be enough to prove their love, and aren't expecting you to measure them in any other way.

I've seen so many of my friends fall into this trap. And when they explain through tears to me how the break-up was "all so unexpected", I look at the last 6 months where he mechanically recited "I love you" while doing whatever was best for him in the moment, and I'm not surprised.

It's a sad place to be.

well, he brings me coffee in the morning and cream on the side and he stirs it for me and puts the creamer back in the fridge. he takes the dog out if i don't feel like it. if i want chips at 2am he will drive to the store for me. if i don't feel like going back to the laundromat to pick up my laundry, he will go get it and fold my clothes. if i'm cooking for him he always asks "is there anything i can help you with" he will go buy tampons for me, do sexual favors for me and want nothing in return... sometimes i wonder if it is possible for a man to be so wonderful and it just adds to my general confusion right now.

Talk to a friend of his. Say something along the lines of "I'm worried about Bob. What's up with him? He seems funny lately." Watch his face. You'll know.

i'm not friends with his friends. most of them only speak russian. plus, i know he's not cheating on me right now. my worry is that our whole relationship leading up to our marriage was based on a lie. thanks for the input, though, i just don't speak russian...

Bet you $50 that the day he gets his citizenship will be the day he files for a divorce and a K1 for that gf of his.

Not saying that it will happen, just that it's fairly common and I'm willing to bet $50 on it.

Why would he write those emails to her if he wasn't intending to bail on you? To me it sounds like he wants to get together with her when the chances comes.

Do this. Keep all these emails, keep everything you can to use against him. When he tries to pull his stunt, you can get him deported and ruin his plans. Plus you'll get every penny.

Hell, you could do so now. Did he get his green card due to being married to you? If he did, and you can show that the only reason he married you was to get his gf out of Russia, you can easily deport him.

You have any emails from her?

Just because he treats you like a princess, doesn't mean that he loves you. He could just be a very nice sweet guy, who just happens to see you as a nice girl that's pleasant to be around with and a means to an end.

Oh and it's fine if the emails from her are in Russian or "ruski" as in Russian in English, I can read both just fine.

He could just be a very nice sweet guy, who just happens to see you as a nice girl that's pleasant to be around with and a means to an end.

this is what i'm so worried about. the thing is, i read her e-mails to him and she says she doesn't understand why he loves her so much because they only dated for two weeks (he lost his virginity to her) also, she tells him that she has a boyfriend and it is serious. she congratulates him on his marriage. i really don't think that she was half as interested as he was, by reading her letters. i doubt that they will be together, because she is traveling the world, telling him of parties, her boyfriend, etc. and his e-mail after marriage hasn't had the "i love yous" and all of that, mostly just friendly stuff. it's not her i'm so worried about, it's the fact that i was/am? living a lie, he didn't feel the same, i can't trust us or him...and i really love him and i want to believe he loves me, but I HATE BEING A FOOL!!!

Was he giving and thoughtful in May when, at the end of the month, he was supposedly finding Newport "boring" and hoping he'd "evade" to Europe?

It's possible he was just stringing this other gal along...

Was he giving and thoughtful in May when, at the end of the month, he was supposedly finding Newport "boring" and hoping he'd "evade" to Europe? yes, he was. as always

It's possible he was just stringing this other gal along...
i thought maybe he felt guilty for being with me, and instead of going into detail about his life, he just said it was boring...how could SHE help him with citizenship? that's the part i don't get.

Well as long as you know that he can't run off with her because she doesn't want to, you have nothing to worry about.

But keep those letters anyway. They can come in handy with two faced people.

Hard to say, maybe he really does love you but is trying to keep the other girl around as a back up. Maybe he hopes that US Citizenship will impress the girl. (www.bride.ru or is it www.brides.ru (can't check at work..would be creepy)is a prime example of how impressed Russian girls are with US citizenship)

Oh and don't worry about the "virginity" thing. I don't think most guys care if they lost thier virginity to the girl of their dreams or a $5 hooker - as long as they lost it.


Seriously though, if the only thing you're worried about is "living a lie" get over it. There is nothing you can do to find out the "truth". I feel that in a relationship, the truth is what you make it.

so, you mean i should just continue on with life, have sex with him tonight, bake him some muffins and smile? god, i wish i could. but i don't know anymore if his love is real or a stupid act. i don't know if he married me for a green card just so he could be with her and then changed his mind and decided to be with me,... i don't want that! i don't want to be his second choice and accept it and be nice to him and love him, because if that was the case, he would not deserve it.

*shrug*

You have no way to find out the truth. He's obviously a liar.

Someone is being lied to, it's either you, or her. Or both.

Oh sure you could "confront" him, but what would that get you? No matter what the deal is, he'd get pissed off about you reading his mail. If he was like me, he'd never forgive you for that.

If you confront him without the evidence, he can just tell you that he loves you very much and has long forgotten about all other women. Maybe it's even the truth...only he knows.

There is nothing you can do. Everything he does and says could be a lie.

So you're just going to have to forget all you read (after putting it in a nice place for safe keeping. (I suggest a bank)) and then do your best to trust him, if you can. If you can't...well what other option is there?

Well think about the possible things that could happen. There is only one way in which this relationship can go on. If you accept his apologies and start loving him again, then if his love is true the relationship will last.

In every other case the marriage will end, whether it's because he "used" you, or because trust died.

So yeah. To make this work it will take a leap of faith. But isn't that what a marriage is anyhow? :)

(Oh, and the things you listed are all great things he's done, but if he's just sitting around bored is he really sacrificing anything? Measure not just the time he takes, but the time he takes away from what he wants to do).

Do you have any of HER responses? Is one torch carried fully lit, and the other guttering or extinguished?

(yeah, i know that's not totally relevant, but it would be interesting to know what her responses are.)

ok, stacy, as requested, i've read this post. this is your doing, mainly.

you should not have read his email. if you hadn;t you'd not be torturing yourself with doubt now.

What says he can;t love that girl and love you? he married you. he lives with YOU. man can only be judged by his actions, not his thoughts, which you've snooped into. everyone has fantasies. he was with her for 2 weeks(he syas) so all he knew of her was the "new love" phase and that's locked in his memory, and takes him to a place that excited him and made him feel loved. Maybe he IS bored. Maybe YOU're bored.

this damage is yours. you need to forgive him for his fantasy ; forgive yourslef for sneaking into his mind; forget it ever happened, and go on loving him. If he leaves you, he leaves you. Doesn't sound like he will, though. sounds relatively devoted if you ask me. Why can't you be satisfied with what he DOES? must you control his very thoughts? ask him if he loves this girl. ask him if he loves you. ask him if he intends to stay with you.

and NEVER NEVER EVER read his emails again.


I had a similar experience once when shelb and i were fighting,. she had discussed my faults with her friends(which she has every friggin right to do) and i stumbled accross it, followed the thread, and was dejected and depressed for about 3 days until i realized that i had no business spying on her conversations with her friends. so...i confronted her with what bothered me- after apologizing for invading her privacy- we talked it out, and it's all good now. strong marriages don;t get any stronger if there is never a problem to resolve....it's like exercise.

you done wrong...fix it.

lumberjim, he wrote those e-mails to her at the very beginning of our relationship!! we met march 30, and the letters are from april, may, june, july... it wasn't that he was bored with me - he just met me! while he was telling me he was falling in love with me, he was telling this girl he loved her and would be with her again, he was working on a green card, etc. he knows i read his e-mail and he' not mad about that. sorry if you think it is wrong, i just wanted to know who this "eva was" because i'm his wife, i have a right, i would rather know than walk around like a blind fool.

yeah, ok, so now you know.....when's the last email he sent her from? why is this an issue today?

you'll be fine......


OR

you're using this as an excuse to move in a direction that you want to move in.

stacy, i'm not trying to be a jerk to you, but as an objective, unconcerned observer, these are my thoughts.

hope it all works out for you. it doesn't matter WHEN he did it. have you talked to him recently about it?



ps when's your next song coming out? this would make good fodder for one, i think.....

[COLOR=indigo]Here's the bottom line:

Right now, do you trust him to be your husband and everything that goes with that, until you both die?

If your answer is yes, then your problem is solved. Go have sex, bake muffins and be wifey. (And learn Russian. It's not that hard.)

If your answer is no, you no longer trust your husband, then the bottom line foundation is gone and you'd be better off to cut your losses now, and have his ass deported.

Whether or not he SAYS he loves you and not her is totally irrelevant. It comes down to whether you trust him or not.

From your responses to the other posts, I don't think you do.

It's over.
[/COLOR]

these are the most recent, from last month:



january 12, 2004
Privet, Eva.
How are you?
Are you coming this year?
It would be fun to meet you again...
How's Slovakia???
I am working at the car dealership right now.
Its slow and i have a lot of time doing nothing.
Write me something about your life and Gruba dupa's.
Hope to hear from you soon, Arsen


january 13, 2004
ahoj Apcenko,
o.k. I will come.
your way is very hard for a conctract. damn
is it so hard to ask for a job somewhere or to take a
application form, send me information which u need and
i will send it to u.
pleaaase.
dont be lasy, zasran.
my life is very good for this time. i have finished
exams i hope so. one more / easy one and i provoke all
my friends now. i think i am a first one. i drink a
beer with friend in study room in domitary etc. nice
girl. am i not?
he he
take care
i send u a kiss of friend.
please, try to help me to find a job.
eva

jan 13, 2004
ty si gruba dupa, kurva
eva is much slimmer in this time. 51kg. he he
but its true.
Anyway, i was in Grand Canaria on the new year eve.
u know my roaming shoes.
So, da its true i am coming this year. i will have to.
I have promised u and Josy. But mayby i will stay 2
state farer from Rhode Island,it dependes on the job
or conctrat i will manage. can u help me and to my 2
friend / girls too?
anyway, just in case i will come to USA and i wont
stay in Newport for sure i will come to visit u. I
need to see druba dupa of kokotko.
i know u have a wife. i dont mean to be with u. dont
worry. but for sure i will make u drung for one
evening or more?
take care
e



reply: jan 13, 2004

Eva, slimmer does NOT nessesarily means better...
:-)
I like bigger girls :-)))
What do you need for job?
Kontrakt?
send me a copy by email, ill print it out fill it and
scan it and send it back to you.
Hows your life?
Im very good, i have a new job - i sell cars.
I am happy with my marriage.
Hope everything is good with you.
Let me know if you need something else.
Sincerely,
Arsen.
PS
Yes, you can make me drunk one nite - i like it.
:-)
Write to me.

yeah, ok, so now you know.....when's the last email he sent her from? why is this an issue today

THAT is why it's an issue today!! even though he says he's happy in his marriage, he says he would like to let her take him out for drinks...what the hell is druba dupa of kokoto??

funny you should mention a song lumberjim, i have already written it, i posted it in entertainment section, check it out.

I had a similar experience once when shelb and i were fighting,. she had discussed my faults with her friends(which she has every friggin right to do) and i stumbled accross it, followed the thread, and was dejected and depressed for about 3 days

Uhh..link please? :)

Bah the recent emails aren't so bad at all.

So he want's to screw her, whoop die doo, he still wants to be with you.

Let it go.

Yup. Let it go. If he has a cheating heart, then there's nothing you can do and he'll run off. I haven't seen anything in the recent notes to make me think that he's plotting some devlish plan to fleece you.

People write differently when the conversation is private. And that's the point. Private. You shouldn't dive into that bees nest unless you're ready to be stung.

Anyhow. If you want the marriage to go on, then forget everything you read and go back to being a loving wife. But if you're looking for an excuse to dismantle your relationship, then own up to how you feel, instead of trying to justify it with inconclusive emails.

Originally posted by blue58


Uhh..link please? :)

there is no link. it was an email loop. and if i've learned my lesson about reading other's emails, do you think i'd post them for everyone to read? what am i some kind of an asshole?

I don't think you're an asshole. I just think reading your wife & friends discussing your faults behind your back would be pure entertainment. Maybe I'm the asshole?

well, yeah, i could see that. sorry a link there is not.

besides, i've corrected all of my faults now, and am perfect in every way. plus I'm more humble now.

I'm fairly sure that the emails were regarding LJ's whale penis, thats why he doesn't want to post them.

You know Stace, I think this last set of emails is excellent.

Look at it. She calls him a pet name but suggests that she doesn't want to hook up with him, just wants to drink with him. What does he do in return - well, he is businesslike and short. The first thing he does is tell her he doesn't prefer her new body type! Unless he's a moron, that's not the statement of a man trying to get in her pants.

And then he repeats that he is happy with his marriage. When you stop to think about it, if he was really kind of hopeful about hooking up with her, he wouldn't say that... even if it were the case. He'd suggest that the marriage wasn't working, and that he was unhappy and looking for something different.

A guy who is a serial cheater will be on the lookout for any opportunity, anything that seems promising. He sounds like he is trying to shut the door on this one. Maybe the tides have turned.

[evil] or ....maybe he knows stacy reads his email[/evil]

And when I said "the tides have turned", it was a subconscious thing in my mind, you know?

I was thinking about him going through a near-death experience on the ocean - in those tides - and finding you there at the end of it. I thought, you know, that is the kind of intense shared experience that really brings a couple together.

actually, he is a moron when it comes to watching what comes out of his mouth.. also, 1 am 5'10 and 130 lbs. if he likes big women, i'm in trouble.

the part about him being happy with his marriage is the only thing that makes me feel better, but...

it still bugs me that he says she can take him out for a drink, "i like that :-)" how am i supposed to know what would happen between the two of them if they were drunk and alone? they would probably mess around. personally, i would NEVER go out for drinks with any guy, nevermind a guy who i was in love with. i am married. i wouldn't put myself in a situation like that. so now i don't trust him. i know you'll tell me to "get over it" but that's how i feel. he definitely lacks common sense and doesn't think before he acts. if this crap is coming up now, when we are at our happiest, when will he eventually cheat? yeah, now i'm worrying about hypothetical situations that never happened......this whole thing has just screwed my head up.

So what did you expect him to say? "No I'd rather not get drunk and have sex with you because my balls got cut off."

Just because he'd "like" it doesn't mean he'll do it.

Originally posted by staceyv
so, you mean i should just continue on with life, have sex with him tonight, bake him some muffins and smile? god, i wish i could. but i don't know anymore if his love is real or a stupid act. i don't know if he married me for a green card just so he could be with her and then changed his mind and decided to be with me,... i don't want that! i don't want to be his second choice and accept it and be nice to him and love him, because if that was the case, he would not deserve it.

But...if he realizes that he wants to be with you and only you, then I don't see what the problem is. Especially when you say he does all these little things for you. The grass isn't always greener...

good luck.

so, you mean i should just continue on with life, have sex with him tonight, bake him some muffins and smile?

I cannot give a good, reasonable answer to your question, until I see what you look like. Naked. :D

Let's not jump to conclusions. Get a picture of her with clothes on, then ask for one without.

Originally posted by FileNotFound
Bet you $50 that the day he gets his citizenship will be the day he files for a divorce and a K1 for that gf of his.

I agree.


A friend of mine married a Russian woman looking to settle in the states.

The whole marriage was a joke from word go. They were living as a normal couple for about 2 months. Then she moved her kids over here, alienating him in his own home, then she started working as some type of interpreter for Russian businessmen (wink, wink).

So last I knew he was dealing with her kids (who dont speak English ), had no experience with children (not having any of his own).....and she was never around.

A group of us tried to talk him out of this before the marriage but he was wrapped up in the fantasy of having an attractive Russian woman at the farm to fuck at will.

slang: Hey Gary, how's it going? Where's that gorgeous woman of yours?
Gary: She's at her job in the city. I see her on the weekends, she works long hours during the week. I was just getting out of the house for a couple hours, the kids are making me crazy.
slang: wow ( wonders to self where Gary will bury her mangled remains after she files for divorce and wants half of his 100+ acre farm. )

So I know this isnt the same situation as the stacyv deal but I have just never seen this arrangement work long term for both people. The few examples I have seen are only for the citizenship.

Hey everybody, I'm Artie. Forgive me for making my 'cellar debut' in this thread. I'm afraid what i'm about to say isn't pleasant.

Staceyv, I feel bad for you, because this situation is really affecting you in a negative way. You sound extremely upset, and slightly irrational.

There's obviously something sketchy about your entire marriage, because of the immigration thing. You're still a good person, but unfortunately, you're the one who created this entire situation, so you're the only one who can make things right, but the focus has to be on YOURSELF.

This guy knows EXACTLY what is going on here, don't kid yourself. He's not stupid enough to jeopardize his meal ticket to the US--of course he'll please you in bed. You have got to take charge of YOUR heart now.

Make some decisions:

Where are you going with your life? What do you want in a spouse? What are you willing to tolerate from your spouse?

Make this all about YOU and where you're going and what you want. Until you turn off all the useless drama you're creating in your mind, you'll never feel safe and secure enough to make decisions to move on with your life.

last night he walked home from work (3 miles) with a dozen roses and a card (which have been destroyed, they just reminded me of when he gave me flowers in july and sent her that letter)
i told him that if this is a greencard marriage, that i will receive payment. i want my $8,000 credit card debt paid off and a diamond. he said he was going to do that anyway. i said if my credit cards are not paid off in next year, no marriage, no greencard. i said if he's using me, he can forget about the green card. well, he swears that he is going to fix me financially and stay with me until death do us part.
i guess i have to wait 1 1/2 years until he gets his green card until i know if i can fully trust him and love him again. if he leaves me, i can console myself with the fact that i bettered myself financially. BUT, really, there is no amount of money in the world that could make up for the pain of finding out that he was using me.

he says that tomorrow night, while i am working, he is going to come to the cellar and tell everyone his side. he thinks i am giving only my point of view and that is why everyone is saying "he's using you...he's a liar..." i am interested to see how he can defend himself...

Now I have something to do Saturday. Got to pick up a case of beer on the way home, tell him not to be late.

Originally posted by staceyv
. . . i told him that if this is a greencard marriage, that i will receive payment. i want my $8,000 credit card debt paid off and a diamond. he said he was going to do that anyway. i said if my credit cards are not paid off in next year, no marriage, no greencard...

WHAT???!! You're wondering if HE'S using YOU??!!

yes, i am wondering if he is using me, and if it's the case, then i will use him. we can use each other, what the hell. the trust is gone now, the innocence, my happiness...what difference does it make?

personally, i would NEVER go out for drinks with any guy, nevermind a guy who i was in love with. i am married.

This is not a philosophy I comprehend. I'm generally up for a drink and there are many guys whose company I quite enjoy. Drinks can mean friendship and conversation....can't they? Maybe I'm a ho and dont know? Nah, I'm too old fer that, thank god.

You need to do one thing. Talk to him until you are satisfied.

Originally posted by staceyv
yes, i am wondering if he is using me, and if it's the case, then i will use him. we can use each other, what the hell. the trust is gone now, the innocence, my happiness...what difference does it make?

Well, then, why are you asking for advice? Now that you've established what you are, aren't you just dickering over the price?

i have not established what i am. he swears up and down that he married me for life. after reading those letters, i am having doubts. i want what he says to be the truth. i want to go back to our happy relationship. i want to trust him again and to feel happy with him. but my trust is broken and i am doubting everything. i am looking at it from two points of view now 1)what if he used me for green card 2)what if he really loves me and will stay with me? and, i am trying to figure out what to do in either case, because i really don't know which one is true.

Originally posted by staceyv
yes, i am wondering if he is using me, and if it's the case, then i will use him. we can use each other, what the hell. the trust is gone now, the innocence, my happiness...what difference does it make?

staceyv, you do realize that you can go to jail for willingly being invovled in a fraudulent marriage for the purpose of giving somebody a citizenship?
Oh and you'll need 3 (I believe) people to make statements under oath that your marriage is "valid" and that you "behave and show all signs of being a married couple" at least I believe thats what the wording is.

Oh and green card isn't enough. You need another 3 years after a green card to get citizenship.

i couldn't go to jail, i married him out of love. my whole family knows him and likes him. we have plenty of witnesses. so, i'll just state it this way. he's paying off my credit cards and buying me a diamond to make up for mental suffering he has caused me...how's that?

Yes, the mental suffering, and those vicious anal beads..

the anal beads weren't used on me....

Originally posted by staceyv
the anal beads weren't used on me....

Oooh...

Well no wonder you're so upset.

he's paying off my credit cards and buying me a diamond to make up for mental suffering he has caused me...how's that?

Pretty sad.

yes, it is sad.....whatever.it won't make up for it. it won't make me feel happy..filenotfound, i used the anal beads on him and they hurt, okay? i am through with this conversation!!

Stuff like that should come with user manuals.

[SIZE=1]because users should come with manual stuff like that[/SIZE]

guys, what would you do if it was YOU...honestly. i don't feel like i am capable of making a rational decision about anything. i made an appointment with a therapist..i can't deal with this on my own, and i won't tell my family or co-workers, because it is embarrassing. they all think we are so great together. even the guys he works with don't know my name..he calls me honey. it was so perfect and now it's so screwed up. what would you do in my shoes, seriously? it's so easy to say "get over it" or "dump his ass!" i can't do either right now.

Ok, Stacey, I think you've either pulled a huge gag on all of us who responded with caring advice.

What you're doing is contrary to the way I solve my problems, but hey! There's more than one way to skin a cat. Are you getting any of this in writing? Talk is cheap, honey. He'll pay off your credit cards and give you a diamond to make up for his shortcomings? I am not convinced.

If the promise of a mere $8,000 and a diamond ring is enough to justify that fact that you've messed up your mind and heart; all the while making a mockery of holy matrimony, it sounds like you're extremely shallow, and a very cheap date.

Talk to him until you are satisfied. Repeat as long as needed. Act to protect yourself when indicated.

All I have to say is... at least I'm not the guy who's scheduled to come post to a thread where your wife admitted she used anal beads. On you. And they hurt. :eek:

Me? I'd probably duck my head in the sand and forget the whole thing ever happened. "Baby, I love you and all, but you gotta stop telling people about the things I stick up my ass."

Relationships are based on trust. If you can't get it, the whole thing is sunk.

All men think about fucking other women, though. To think otherwise is silly. It's just our nature. The true test of loyalty is if he actually does anything physical with her. If he actually fucks her (or kisses her, or whatever), then he has broken your trust. As of now, he's just fantasizing, which all men can't help but do.

Remember, he's just a man. Give him some leeway. I mean, he hasn't actually done anything yet.

really, there is no amount of money in the world that could make up for the pain of finding out that he was using me.


that is a direct quote from an earlier post. i am angry, okay. OF COURSE i don't want us to be a lie! the marriage i thought i had and our happiness and future is WAY more important than material shit. if i even cared about material things, i would never have married him. he made little money as a painter, no car, was getting evicted, couldn't go to school or get a good job because of citizenship issues. i married him for pure love. don't accuse me of being shallow. if anything, i am an IDIOT. not shallow, but definitely lacking in decision making skills. but my love was very very blind. this is about love. i am looking for any way to make myself feel better. any way to rationalize staying with him, because the truth is, i don't want to be without him, but i also don't want to feel like a sucker. it's hard to explain. also, what if he was using me?? in that case, i would want him to pay! i wouldn't want to be used as a sucker for free. but, if he really loves me and will stay with me, him paying off my debt is also helping him, because it is "our" debt and if we ever want to buy a car or a house, it would have to go under my name. his credit is completely ruined.

Your idea of going to a therapist is exactly right on. You can get a lot of voices here which can be supportive and/or try to give you ideas and opinions. But we ain't pros at it.

riddil, he won't read all of this. i would be surprised if he did. besides, he tries to discredit all the advice you guys are giving me by saying i don't know what kind of people i'm talking to...so he probably wouldn't care what you guys think about the anal beads.
i guess i really don't know you guys, but i can tell when someone is giving me mature advice with good intentions, as a few of you have. if anything, he will laugh if he sees that.

Originally posted by staceyv
also, what if he was using me?? in that case, i would want him to pay! i wouldn't want to be used as a sucker for free.

I don't see this kind of thing as truly vindictive or shallow. Knowing what you are feeling about this, it is an emotional reaction to the situation. You feel hurt, decieved, etc and your mode of defense is this sort of lashing out "Well, I don't care about you anyway!" thing. I think it is pretty normal to react that way. I am sorry you have this delimma in front of you...it looks, no doubt, like an extremely difficult one.

I agree with Undertoad. A counselor might be able to help you sort out your feelings. Sounds like they are pretty overwhelming right now.

Here's another thing; you feel terrible right now, yesterday and today, but you aren't always going to feel this way.

In another few days, you'll feel differently. The pain and shock will be gone and you'll be in another place... still maybe not the best place, but better than it is now.

One of the foundations for your relationship has been yanked out from under you. What you need to do is to look at the relationship as it is now, and take some time to see what you think of what it is for you today. You've loved the idea of what you had; what will you do with nothing but the man remaining, with all the ideas and history trashed?

If at the end of that time, you still feel like the man is meaningful and valuable to you, you'll then decide to rebuild that foundation. If you find that it isn't so meaningful to you today, maybe it never was to begin with, and you'll have to bitterly move on.

I guess the main thing is, you don't have to do anything right away, you don't have to make any quick decisions.

Life is like this: you plan for it to go a certain way, you DREAM for it to go a certain way, and then it throws you the big curve ball. Life plays with us and toys with us. Life builds beautiful mirages of dreams, and then shatters those mirages and laughs at us as we cry over losing what we never even had. And then, sometimes, life turns around and reminds you of what's so great about it. Fills you with glory and excitement and beauty.

In the long run, you'll find that it wasn't which path you were on all along, whether it was the planned path or the accidental path, the path of your dreams or the worst nightmare... life isn't about those paths, so much as it is about the flowers along the path.

And every day a fresh set of them, and every day different.

Originally posted by staceyv
i used the anal beads on him and they hurt, okay?

TMI.

I'm expecting that we will see Radar's version of this in a few months ...

It'll probably involve "sucky sucky" and a lot of $$$.

wow, undertoad. thank you. you are right about life and i hope you are right that i won't always feel this way...anyway, thank you.

here's something that bothers me. arsen refers to himself as jay gatsby in his letters to her. he is a character from literature. look at the analysis:

Being a young soldier, he falls in love ...
their relationship splits up. After the war, because of several circumstances, he has to attend Oxford College in England.
...As he comes back to the United States he finds his great love married to another man and thinks his only possible chance to get Daisy back is being rich. This idea is stuck in his head and trying to get his love back is the only thing he lives for. Little by little Gatsby loses his sense of reality completely. He is a dreamer, but to complete his dream of living a perfect life he has to reunite with Daisy.

...All in all Gatsby is totally lost in his dream world and not able to find back to reality...
Gatsby is a very dedicated person. He tries everything to get Daisy back.
In The Great Gatsby the American Dream plays a big role.

At the risk of sounding insensitive, b/c I'm sure you truly love him...

--Get a divorce lawyer.
--Have him deported.
--Move on.

are you saying that because of the gatsby thing?
he stopped using it in july. we married in september. i'm starting to think that he may have had those bad intentions, but he might really love me now...but i don't know. i'm going to the therapist before i decide what to do.

(I would like to point out that despite having been to Rhode Island many times, including Newport, I have never met staceyv's husband).

Stacey, no, I said what I said initially based on what I've read in the entire thread.

Like I said in another thread, I'm no expert on this kind of shit...but you seem like a nice enough person and all, and it just seems to me like you're being taken for a ride. Of course he's going to try and make things right...his life in the States could be at stake. You seem to be torn between "Well, he IS trying to make up for it." and "I can't trust this fucker any further than I can throw him." It seems to me like the writing is on the wall, but I know what it's like to love someone so much that it hurts...and hurts to let go.

Hopefully the therapist will help, but in the end, the decision is yours. I think you have to step back, reapproach it with a cool calm head and go from there.

Good luck.

[COLOR=indigo]She already said she doesn't want to be with him at this point.

that's the case, then it is over. I said it before. Cut your losses. That doesn't mean it's not going to hurt like hell.[/COLOR]

i also posted that i don't want to break up,either. i want to believe him and continue with a happy life. all this is too stressful. then i start thinking "what if it' s all a lie?" i am completely torn in two directions. we sat down and made an agreement with each other on ways to rebuild my trust. he says he will go to counseling, he will not talk to or e-mail or see that girl ever again, he says he won't even go out without me. he says he will give me all of his account numbers and i can read his e-mails if i want, that he will not hide things and that he will be 100% honest with me, even if it might upset me...basically, anything i threw in the air, he was like "sure, i'll do that...i'll do anything you say" but i also told him that my trust will probably only be fully won when he has a greencard and he is still with me. if he really wanted to, sure, he could open a secret e-mail account, he could lie instead of 100% honesty policy, he could say he has to work late and do whatever. all of these things he agreed to did not restore my trust in him, but it looks like he is willing to do anything to try. his only response to "why did you write those letters?!" is "i don't know, i really don't know...i'm twisted, i know it was perverted, unfaithful, i don't know"

this is where we stand now. i guess only time will tell.

our contract:

we agree on 100% complete honesty. no punishment, and arsen will remind stacey.

arsen will not hide things from stacey

arsen will take stacey with him when he goes out, or not go.

4 drinks out or 3 at home for STACEY.

no e-mails or contact with eva

pay off stacey's credit card bills and a diamond ring before greencard.

honechka will not cut her hair for one year, and she will not look for the hidden scissors.

arsen will not cheat on stacey. that includes kissing and romantic letters. and of course, no physical contact like head, sex , etc. same for stacey.

arsen will go to marriage therapy.





02-13-2004
2-13-04

What does stacey do for arsen other than service him sexually?

One sided contracts are unrealistic and unenforceable.

Originally posted by OnyxCougar
She already said she doesn't want to be with him at this point.

Really? Could you point out where she said that? Because in re-reading the entire thread, I didn't see that mentioned at all. Not to mention Stacey's newest post...

This situation is not unlike the first time we heard about your husband

And here, I must unfortunately say, "I told you so."

Therapist. Say it with me now, th-air-a-pist. Go to him. Now. Quickly. Please run, don't walk.

Originally posted by wolf
What does stacey do for arsen other than service him sexually?

One sided contracts are unrealistic and unenforceable.

how is it a one-sided contract? i agree to limit my drinking, not cut my hair, not to cheat. those were all of his requests. he couldn't think of anything else. did you even read the contract before you posted that??

also, that "i told you so " in the baby back post didn't make any sense to me. neither does this one




by the way,
thank you, sycamore, you are right.


therapist
.

i am looking for any way to make myself feel better. any way to rationalize staying with him

[COLOR=indigo]If you have to come up with reasons to be there, you don't want to be there.

Sounds like you've managed to find a reason to stay.

I hope things work out for you.
[/COLOR]

Originally posted by OnyxCougar
Sounds like you've managed to find a reason to stay.

That's not a reason to stay but, rather, a reason not to leave. Big difference.

[COLOR=indigo]SHE is the one that said she was looking for reasons to stay. Stay, not leave, same difference.[/COLOR]

beestie's right...it's not that i am so sure of staying, but i am even more unsure of leaving, so i found a reason not to leave.

[COLOR=indigo]You found a reason not to leave, so therefore you found a reason to stay?


I just checked dictionary.com. It says that staying is the same as not leaving. What am I missing here??[/COLOR]

Originally posted by OnyxCougar
[COLOR=indigo]You found a reason not to leave, so therefore you found a reason to stay?


I just checked dictionary.com. It says that staying is the same as not leaving. What am I missing here??[/COLOR]

Inflection my dear Cougar. She doesn't want to stay but she is more frightened of leaving. It is the resolution of a dilemma - rarely a pretty sight.

Whatever you do, StacyV, I hope you continue to hang out here. You are deeply troubled and will not do well on your own unless you start believing in yourself.

Many wise folk have counseled you on this issue. Take heed. While our advice is free, it is not cheap.

Wise folk? Where? :)

Having been cheated on by someone I was in love with, and having seen emails similar to the ones posted at the top of this thread, I think I can speak with some authority.

People who love you won't do that to you. End of story. I know how painful and confusing it is. However, my humble opinion (and it may be mine alone) is that dragging yourself through a swamp of self-analysis and one-sided relationship-mending only hurts you and doesn't change your situation one whit. Even if he has stopped his hurtful behavior for the time being, expect it to come back once he thinks he's on safe ground again.

Accept the short-term, intense pain of kicking his greencard-seeking ass out the door, and save yourself a long(er), even more painful experience. I think you will be eternally grateful you did. There is someone out there who will love you without the bullshit attached.

Amateur psychologist kicking in: Have you ever wondered who he was cheating on when he hooked up with you? I hope that doesn't sound crass, because I don't intend it that way. But I'd bet no small amount of my own money that you're not the first he's strung along.

Best of luck to you.

Originally posted by staceyv
our contract:

we agree on 100% complete honesty. no punishment, and arsen will remind stacey.

arsen will not hide things from stacey

[color=red]arsen will take stacey with him when he goes out, or not go.[/color]

4 drinks out or 3 at home for STACEY.

no e-mails or contact with eva

[color=red]pay off stacey's credit card bills and a diamond ring before greencard.[/color]

honechka will not cut her hair for one year, and she will not look for the hidden scissors.

arsen will not cheat on stacey. that includes kissing and romantic letters. and of course, no physical contact like head, sex , etc. same for stacey.

[color=red]arsen will go to marriage therapy.[/color]


02-13-2004
2-13-04


snip [color=red]he says he will go to counseling, he will not talk to or e-mail or see that girl ever again, he says he won't even go out without me. he says he will give me all of his account numbers and i can read his e-mails if i want,[/color]

You're pretty fucked up.

I can't believe you. christ! YOU need the marriage therapy.

Why don;t you make him hand over his cock and balls, so he can't cheat on you? The above contract is ridiculous and controlling and one sided and psychotic.

and ya know what's worse?

think about it.

he agreed to it.

what does that mean?


I think I know.

he hasn't "done that to me" since we've been married. that makes me hopeful, and he has very little experience with women. he's slept with two people. his longest relationship before me was only a couple of weeks (eva). i don't think he's a master of stringing along women. i really want to have hope right now, and i can probably talk myself into anything to feel better. i am looking forward to therapy... if he is completely insincere, and does not love me and is stringing me along, well he would be a master. he could go down in history, and i would become the most bitter man-hating old hag you have ever met, seen, or heard of.

it was his idea to give me the e-mail passwords, his idea to take me with him everywhere...he was trying to come up with ideas that would leave me no room to mistrust him...he says he has nothing to hide. the diamond and the credit card bills, well, i mentioned that part in another part of this thread...it's stuff we talked about before all of this happened.
he has admitted to being pussy-whipped long ago.

whatever

lumberjim, your stupid link deleted all of my cookies :(
goodnight.

The other 2 things I learned from that destructive, ridiculous relationship are that......

I didn't listen to a damn thing anyone told me. lol. I had to find it all out the hard way, and the hard way felt like someone ripping my heart out through my rectum. Compassionate people hate to see people do that to themselves, Stacey.

Don't mistake clinginess for love. love=healthy. cling=clusterfuck.

Lies I told myself:

"But she LOVES me. I just KNOW she does. I mean, she SAID I WAS THE LOVE OF HER LIFE!! (snivel, whine, cry)"

"What did I do to make her act this way? If I can change, maybe I can resurrect the burning passion we used to feel. Maybe if I do some of the stuff she wants me to do, she will reciprocate." -- ok, she was fucking some guy at the time, but still, *maybe*.

"Maybe I have just missed the point somewhere. If we talk enough about it, the situation will fix itself with cosmic love rays that supersede all destructive, shitty behavior."

etc. etc. ad nauseum.

If I didn't see myself in your situation, it wouldn't affect me so strongly. But I know at some point I'm going to piss you off, if I haven't already. I better shut up.

No. One last thing. Marriage therapists are programmed to listen for certain responses that let them know how they're doing with a particular case. They can be played like a Stradivarius if you have the talent for it. Serial heartbreakers have that talent, and methinks you are in the clutches of one. My last post on the subject without your approval, Stacey. I'm redundant enough :)

i mean the whole arrangement is ludicrous. Fuckin A! just be who-the-fuck-you-are and let him be who-the-fuck-he-is; and be together, or don't.

You are in a destructive cycle of suspicion and doubt.

Break it.

Trust him! And if you CAN'T trust him, leave him!

what the fuck good does that contract do either of you. what happens if one of you is in breach? will he have to pay a penalty on the credit card bill? does the other party get to reposses the relationship?

woo hooo? knock knock knock......anybody home?



FUCK!
:mad:

Originally posted by staceyv
lumberjim, your stupid link deleted all of my cookies :(
goodnight.

i knew that would come in handy one day.

hey, welcome aboard, mrnoodle.....do you have a brother?

thanks lumberjim.

yup i do. don't scare me by knowing him.

Originally posted by lumberjim
i knew that would come in handy one day.

It was time for her to go anyway...

she still online. Hey, since I promised not to post anymore about this subject, will someone tell her to tell Ivan to private message me? I'm in the mood for a frank exchange of ideas with that kid.

Asshat.

You want to talk about hot dogs? Or whale penes?

i really have to get to bed...why am i so wired? look, i am going to go to the therapist, and yes, he will probably tell me that parts of that contract are unhealthy. and yes, it would probably be easy to take advantage of someone like me, because i usually don't let people in because i know how i am and i have to protect myself from those who don't have my best interests at heart, but once i let someone in, oh my god. yeah, it could definitely happen...i want to believe what he says, because leaving him seems so painful.

Somebody tell her she's wired because the remaining sane brain cells in her tormented noggin won't let her sleep until she stops trying to batter them into submission. And then tell her the whole friggin contract is null and void because if he don't wanna be a good husband without blackmailing her into not cutting her fukkin hair, he ain't gonna keep it.

Why am I still here? Why have I lapsed into slang?

cuz I took a sleeping pill and didn't go to bed immediately. it makes me a mouthy wanker.

Originally posted by Beestie
Inflection my dear Cougar. She doesn't want to stay but she is more frightened of leaving. It is the resolution of a dilemma - rarely a pretty sight.

[COLOR=indigo]OK. Let me present it thus: She doesn't want to stay. That's the only part I need to hear. I was beat for over 2 years. Bones dislocated. Raped with knives. And you know what? I didn't want to stay but I was too frightened to go.

Now. Mr. Wonderful doesn't beat her. But the core of the matter is the same. SHE DOESN'T WANT TO STAY. She has to, by her OWN admission, find a reason not to leave. Why isn't this running up red flags to everyone reading this thread??

She starts out upset because she feels like she can't trust him. He tells her over and over she can. But yet, she can't trust him. She doesn't know even now if he's lying or not when he says she can trust him. She's what-if'ing herself to insanity. People give her all kinds of advice, she keeps going on about how she can't trust him, and doesn't know what to do.

If I don't want to be at a party, I leave. If I can't trust the man I'm with, I will leave. Even if I fucked up, maybe he didn't do anything wrong. Even if I was mistaken in thinking I couldn't trust him, the trust was still broken, even if it was broken in error. He put himself in a situation in which his feelings could even remotely be called into question. He saved those letters (they must mean alot to him).

Stacey (1)You don't want to stay (2)You have to LOOK for reasons compelling enough not to leave a person you don't trust.

That says to me: Get the fuck out.

But, as I've stated in other threads, you're gonna do what you're gonna do. Therapist is a good idea if you want to stay. First thing the therapist will ask you is "Do you want this relationship to work?" If you even hesitate in answering that question, it's not worth the time or money to see a counselor. (And "yes, but only if he does this or that..." doesn't count.) You either love him unconditionally or you don't. You either trust him completely or you don't. And if you don't, then get out now. If you do, then there's no problem, is there?

Again, I hope things work out well for you either way.
[/COLOR]

Originally posted by OnyxCougar
Why isn't this running up red flags to everyone reading this thread??

This whole thread has become one big red flag...visible from space...

The contract is yet another feeble attempt to not face reality. Just another construct between the real and the perceived. I've been there as I suspect most have at one point or another.

Originally posted by mrnoodle
thanks lumberjim.

yup i do. don't scare me by knowing him.

~intelligence recognized.
~used term "asshat" correctly in context
~good first impression formed.

~ save file.


[elmo]
mrnoodle's brother, mr Noodle.[/elmo]

:blush:

gawrsh.

tha' fuck is elmo? and who has been using the registered trademark of MrNoodle (TM)(R)(not starting this thread over here)
without the express permission of this station and the National Football League?


but thanks nonetheless

here he is.....




here's his late brother, mr noodle

OMG!!!! STAN???? You bastard, I want my fuggin shirt back! Mom always liked you better, you arrogant git. The shirt! off! now!


(the sound of a thread dying)

Before it dies, I want to say that Stace IS addressing the problem directly, and you all are being a little unfair about it at this point. A lot of people wouldn't be where she is at this point because they would have stuffed it all under the couch and forgotten about it, because it was convenient.

We can give advice and thoughts but let's not be hasty to judge the contract and such. That's the therapist's job but Stace is doing the right thing by taking it to the therapist and considering it and thinking about it and NOT stuffing it under the couch.

It's hard to be in the situation. And nobody, and no situation, and no relationship, is going to be 100% perfect. We are human, and we are MESSY AND COMPLICATED. We all have to do whatever it is we do to get along in life. We all make mistakes too, and we all hurt our S.O.s unintentionally and once in a while intentionally just trying to get through life.

onyx, you make it seem so black and white. this morning i am having doubts. it didn't look like he was ever really emotional about the whole thing. i don't trust him. leaving will be hard if i go, very very hard. i would have to go live with my mother, no health insurance, $8,000.00 in credit card debt, plus raised car insurance from when he hit someone's car. the embarassment of everyone finding out that i am a complete fool and was taken for a ride, the fact that i don't know if i'd ever be able to trust someone else again or have a normal relationship, the fact that i would miss him and think "what if he was sincere.." after he's gone, and the fact that i have no social life or friends to surround myself with to help me get over him. maybe i'm trying to delude myself into staying so my life will be easier. if i was in his shoes, (well, first of all, i wouldn't have written those letters!) but if i screwed up and i really cared, i would feel bad. i would probably cry and plead for forgiveness. but then i think "well, everyone has a different way of dealing with things"...still, he seems to not display too much emotion. this all seems like an inconvenience to him. like "fine, okay. you wanna ask me questions, go for it...we're just going in circles here, i'm so tired" or he's acting like nothing happened, acting exactly the same as he did before all of this."hi honey..here's your coffee, come here, give me a kiss, look at me- my dick is hard" or he's being impatient: he tried to kiss me before he got out of the car when i took him to work. i said "could you try that some other time?" because i am just not ready to be affectionate with him. he was like "fine!" and just got out of the car and walked away. i know he's happy with his life with me, but is it just because it's convenient? i mean, a nice apartment, home-cooked meals, live-in sex, greencard, someone to organize the household budget and style his hair...who wouldn't try to hold on to this set up? maybe it is even convenient for him until death do us part? i don't know...he could be thinking that he'll be a total citizen by age 28....that it's worth it to keep me happy. maybe he'd never leave because it's a good set-up. but if it's not based on love or good intentions, i don't want it! you know what kils me? everybody loves him. people that i trust as good judgers or character just love him. my 45 yr old female boss who seems to see through everyone loves him. my family, everyone. then again, i always told him he would be a good salesperson. uhh! i'm going in circles.

Thank you.

i guess there's only one way for me to ever find out the truth, and that is to wait until he gets his greencard. and in the process, i need to better myself and make a life for myself, so that i could be secure with or without him.

Originally posted by lumberjim
Why don;t you make him hand over his cock and balls, so he can't cheat on you? The above contract is ridiculous and controlling and one sided and psychotic.

She didn't get it when I told her the same thing, LJ. Don't hold out much hope for a revelation here.

Shit, she fell for your PT Barnum.

to everyone who gave me advice and heard me out, i want to sincerely thank you for your time, ideas, advice...i listen to you all and there are so many conflicting opinions and i see a little truth in all of them, and it's making my head spin. a lot of what undertoad said made sense to me.

there are just too many ways to look at it, and i'm driving myself crazy with this. i know that i can't let anyone else make these decisions for me and that noone has the right 100% guaranteed answer, so i need to stop this.

i'm not going to post anymore about this. i know there wil be a few "thank you"s after this post... anyway, i can't keep torturing myself and going over it over and over again, and thinking "maybe he's right, i have nothing to worry about, he wants me..." "maybe she's right, he's taking me for a ride"...i can't do it. i'm going to come to terms with it on my own and i'll update you guys someday, i guess.

my husband says he is coming on to defend himself tonight. have fun with him, guys. thanks again for everything.

see you in a different thread :)

Well, good luck again. At least you're being honest with yourself about how you feel (maybe you always were, it's hard to tell from an online forum).

Originally posted by staceyv
my husband says he is coming on to defend himself tonight. have fun with him, guys.

:yum:

Good luck Stacey, like Toad said you are addressing it. Its hard as anything cuz marriage is built on trust and if you can't reclaim that you won't be happy...

Originally posted by Undertoad
Before it dies, I want to say that Stace IS addressing the problem directly, and you all are being a little unfair about it at this point.

You can't say that with certainty, Toad. As this thread continued last night, I got the sense that we were being fucked with. Not to mention, there is another side to this story that we haven't heard yet.

Staceyv, your husband is going to come on here to defend himself?

After re-reading this entire thread, I can absolutely declare that you are being a complete FOOL. Even half of the information you've given us about your opportunist, wimpy, cloying husband is reason enough to kick his ass. I can't imagine you allowing him to take up space in your life as you thumb your nose at good sense.

The solution to your problem does not require time or therapy. It requires you to answer a simple YES/NO question. Make a freaking decision--you seem unwilling to do that. Grow up.

I apologized in advance that my compassion is wearing thin:

GROW THE HELL UP, Stacey.

You are a fool.
You are a fool.
You are a fool.
You are a fool.
You are a fool.
You are a fool.
You are a fool.
You are a fool.
You are a fool.
You are a fool.
You are a fool.

:rolleyes:

On the up side, look at all the C&W/Blues songs she's gathering. Damn, there's 3 albums in this thread....Uh...make that CDs.:blush:

naw, albums is better. "CDs" lacks personality. I think "vinyl" is pretty much kaput, though.

Originally posted by staceyv
onyx, you make it seem so black and white. this morning i am having doubts. it didn't look like he was ever really emotional about the whole thing. i don't trust him. leaving will be hard if i go, very very hard. i would have to go live with my mother, no health insurance, $8,000.00 in credit card debt, plus raised car insurance from when he hit someone's car. the embarassment of everyone finding out that i am a complete fool and was taken for a ride, the fact that i don't know if i'd ever be able to trust someone else again or have a normal relationship, the fact that i would miss him and think "what if he was sincere.." after he's gone, and the fact that i have no social life or friends to surround myself with to help me get over him. maybe i'm trying to delude myself into staying so my life will be easier. if i was in his shoes, (well, first of all, i wouldn't have written those letters!) but if i screwed up and i really cared, i would feel bad. i would probably cry and plead for forgiveness. but then i think "well, everyone has a different way of dealing with things"...still, he seems to not display too much emotion. this all seems like an inconvenience to him. like "fine, okay. you wanna ask me questions, go for it...we're just going in circles here, i'm so tired" or he's acting like nothing happened, acting exactly the same as he did before all of this."hi honey..here's your coffee, come here, give me a kiss, look at me- my dick is hard" or he's being impatient: he tried to kiss me before he got out of the car when i took him to work. i said "could you try that some other time?" because i am just not ready to be affectionate with him. he was like "fine!" and just got out of the car and walked away. i know he's happy with his life with me, but is it just because it's convenient? i mean, a nice apartment, home-cooked meals, live-in sex, greencard, someone to organize the household budget and style his hair...who wouldn't try to hold on to this set up? maybe it is even convenient for him until death do us part? i don't know...he could be thinking that he'll be a total citizen by age 28....that it's worth it to keep me happy. maybe he'd never leave because it's a good set-up. but if it's not based on love or good intentions, i don't want it! you know what kils me? everybody loves him. people that i trust as good judgers or character just love him. my 45 yr old female boss who seems to see through everyone loves him. my family, everyone. then again, i always told him he would be a good salesperson. uhh! i'm going in circles.

[color=indigo] **sigh** Stacey, no one ever said it was going to be easy. It's never easy to realize your dreams are fading away in front of you.

To me, an outsider looking in on your viewpoint (which is the only one we've been exposed to and the only once that matters to you), it's black and white. Honey, ask anyone here, and they will tell you that any happy, healthy relationship is BASED on love and TRUST. You simply do not have that. How can you build a house on sand and expect it not to sink? Trust is a go/nogo issue. You do or you don't. Once you lose it, it is very very difficult to get it back.

Nothing ever seems black and white when your in the middle of it, and I know how hard it is to leave someone. I know what it feels like to be truly cheated on. I know what it feels like to have made a mistake that it's too late to repair. What it feels like to be used. To have a mountain of bills and no place to go. And no, it's not easy.

Let's assume your fears are valid. You are in a relationship with a man you don't trust. You have two options: (1) stay where you know you are being used. or (2) leave the bum, and actually have him deported so he can't use another woman this way.

Then who's the fool? Everyone gets used. Not everyone does something about it.[/color]

The end is going to come. It's very much to your advantage to pick the time and place. I doubt that anyone would disagree with that.

highly therapeutic response posted in russky's thread. I have a feeling I might get dinged on it, but oh well. sorry staceyv, just sharing my opinion with him.

I hate when people call me russky.
I have a name.

Originally posted by arsen
I hate when people call me russky.
I have a name.

Would you prefer commie?

Arsen. I retract the russky comment, and admit to having a personal axe to grind with the sort of behavior described in this thread. I'm not impartial at all when it comes to infidelity. I used to be. I even dated a married woman. My disgust with this business has been turned on myself in the past. I deserved the heartache I got because I helped someone violate their vows. Still, if it walks like an asshat, talks like an asshat.....

For the record, my question was legitimate. :)

Dude, I'm trying to be serious here, and you keep having fun. You're harshing my mellow.:band:

just haven't used that one yet. Ooooh. one to go and I have 100 posts.

Originally posted by staceyv
onyx, you make it seem so black and white. this morning i am having doubts. it didn't look like he was ever really emotional about the whole thing. i don't trust him.

This is important to recognize.

leaving will be hard if i go, very very hard. i would have to go live with my mother, no health insurance, $8,000.00 in credit card debt, plus raised car insurance from when he hit someone's car. the embarassment of everyone finding out that i am a complete fool and was taken for a ride, the fact that i don't know if i'd ever be able to trust someone else again or have a normal relationship, the fact that i would miss him and think "what if he was sincere.." after he's gone, and the fact that i have no social life or friends to surround myself with to help me get over him.

And these are the things you may have to face, so therefore I say it's important to work on "self" in order to face these things as a strong, mentally healthy adult.

maybe i'm trying to delude myself into staying so my life will be easier. if i was in his shoes, (well, first of all, i wouldn't have written those letters!) but if i screwed up and i really cared, i would feel bad. i would probably cry and plead for forgiveness. but then i think "well, everyone has a different way of dealing with things"...still, he seems to not display too much emotion. this all seems like an inconvenience to him. like "fine, okay. you wanna ask me questions, go for it...we're just going in circles here, i'm so tired" or he's acting like nothing happened, acting exactly the same as he did before all of this."hi honey..here's your coffee, come here, give me a kiss, look at me- my dick is hard" or he's being impatient: he tried to kiss me before he got out of the car when i took him to work. i said "could you try that some other time?" because i am just not ready to be affectionate with him. he was like "fine!" and just got out of the car and walked away.

More proof that men and women treat certain situations differently.

i know he's happy with his life with me, but is it just because it's convenient? i mean, a nice apartment, home-cooked meals, live-in sex, greencard, someone to organize the household budget and style his hair...who wouldn't try to hold on to this set up? maybe it is even convenient for him until death do us part? i don't know...he could be thinking that he'll be a total citizen by age 28....that it's worth it to keep me happy. maybe he'd never leave because it's a good set-up. but if it's not based on love or good intentions, i don't want it! you know what kils me? everybody loves him. people that i trust as good judgers or character just love him. my 45 yr old female boss who seems to see through everyone loves him. my family, everyone. then again, i always told him he would be a good salesperson. uhh! i'm going in circles.

You seem to do a lot of assuming with this. I hope that the counseling that you seek will help you out in some way. Good luck.

WOW! Interesting!! Well my opinion is that #1 snooping in his email is bad bad!! I have got caught several times snooping in my bf's email, and it's not fun getting in trouble, because then he goes on thinking that I do not trust him....long story! Anywayz....what it sounds like to me is that he is too involved with this girl.....plain and simple!! Seems like he is too worried and concerned about her that he is you. Anything wrong with that picture?? Well...i'm sure you are going to do what you want to do...and you may already have since this post is kind of out a date...c ya

Stacy,

I know this is coming late, but I would like to put in my two cents. I think I can, somewhat, relate to your situation.

My wife just left me for reasons I don't even know. I'm still confused and the pain is the worst pain I've ever felt. I would rather have a root canal without the numbness, and I would give anything to be back with my wife. BUT....if she came back and wanted to get together.....as painful as it would be.....I would have to say no. The trust is gone and without trust, the marriage would suffer. You have to have trust. You have to be happy.

If this group of people at the cellar has taught me anything, it's that pain is apart of life and we have to deal with it. I realized that I should have dealt with this pain 10 years ago instead of prolonging it. 10 years of love is harder to forget than 2. They've also taught me that the pain will go away and the scars will heal. I hope they're right, because I want to love again and I will. And you can too.

I'm not telling you what to do or am I trying to persuade you in anyway. What I think you should do is listen to yourself. What do you tell you to do. If you decide to stay, then make the best of it. If you decide to go, then go. It seems to me that you are going to face pain either way.


Sorry if I'm bringing too much of my situation into this conversation, I'm still having a tough time dealing with it and this does help me too. But basically, what I'm trying to say to both of us it be strong and do what you think is right. And whatever pain you go through will go away with time and you will be stronger because of it.

I wish you the best of luck and let us know what happens.

Hi Staceyv - new here, hope you don't mind me commenting. Have read through all your posts and see masses of uncontrolled emotion. Psychologically you will reject any advice that doesn't conform to what you already know you are going to do (termed confirmation bias), so the best and only advice I can give is to listen to yourself, accept the decision you made the second you found out about the e-mails, and go ahead with it. Of course it will be hard, but stay true to yourself and you won't make a single mistake, because everything you do will be what you wanted to do in the first place.

All the best.

Stacey, a better board for you to post your question on is http://messageboards.ivillage.com/iv-rlguytalk
I can't add anything else new to the replies you've already had.

This is worse than watching soaps. I think all of you have been conned into contributing to a bogus bunch of tearjerking or meat-jerking bullshit. No sympathy in this corner. LMAO

When your life appears to fall into a mess right before your eyes, and there's nobody you can trust to tell your story, you can come here, jd, and still find a sympathetic audience.

Originally posted by Undertoad
When your life appears to fall into a mess right before your eyes, and there's nobody you can trust to tell your story, you can come here, jd, and still find a sympathetic audience.

Sniff, Sniff, blubber, bawl:violin:
Like I said, no sympathy here. If this bs were actually true, any self respecting woman would have Bobbited off his nads long ago and called the INS on his cheating immigrant ass. I still think it's a sob-story con job.

I think i'd rather make fun of him.

Eureka! The solution to her problem has manifested itself in my head...(Theme song to MASH plays in the background):violin:

If you want to be an ass, that's your perogative, and stacey's too if she wants, but I think you'll find that the majority of people reading this thread will find you an ass and her not;

And because you often get what you give, you'll learn someday that it pays not to be an ass.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Undertoad
[B]If you want to be an ass, that's your perogative, and stacey's too if she wants, but I think you'll find that the majority of people reading this thread will find you an ass and her not

You have a point Toad, and everyone dons the asshat at one time or another, as a matter of fact, its my favorite hat.
But is it only I that can visualize her sitting at the word processor, laughing her ass off while all of the responders are helping her fo finish her thesis on the dysfunctional bleeding hearts of cyberspace? Or am I just PARANOID?

I think what JD doesn;t understand is that although stacey took a lot of heat over that situation, and came out loking kind of bad through the whole thing, we all ( well, i can only speak for myself, but i think in general...) developed a liking for her. She's part of the family. She may be that sister that makes your eyes tired from rolling them all of the time, but.......she has redeeming qualities. She's terrifically honest and open. She isnt trying to impress anyone, or put anyone down.

So, mr Butler, before you recommend suicide to one of the dwellars, consider what UT says carefully. In your time of need, we're here for you. If you act like an ass, we'll tell you that too. That's what families do.

Originally posted by jdbutler

But is it only I that can visualize her sitting at the word processor, laughing her ass off while all of the responders are helping her fo finish her thesis on the dysfunctional bleeding hearts of cyberspace? Or am I just PARANOID?

um...no. she's legit. you'd have to have been there for the whole thing, but her pain is real.

OK, you guys are right...apologies to any who were offended.
She is lucky to have people who are concerned for her mental well-being, unlike the welcome home reception received by many of my brothers in the late sixties thru 70's.

That's gotta be one of the clumsiest segues into political debate I've seen in quite a while.

Yeah, but look on the bright side.....no puns!

Originally posted by Happy Monkey
That's gotta be one of the clumsiest segues into political debate I've seen in quite a while.

No debate intended, master.

yet.

Originally posted by jdbutler although not necessarily in this order

Blah, blah, blah... as a matter of fact, [the asshat is] my favorite hat.

But is it only I that can visualize her sitting at the word processor, laughing her ass off while all of the responders are helping her fo finish her thesis on the dysfunctional bleeding hearts of cyberspace?

She is lucky to have people who are concerned for her mental well-being, unlike the welcome home reception received by many of my brothers in the late sixties thru 70's.

Or am I just PARANOID?

Good question.

I think what JD doesn;t understand is that although stacey took a lot of heat over that situation, and came out loking kind of bad through the whole thing, we all ( well, i can only speak for myself, but i think in general...) developed a liking for her.

And she demonstrated much testicular fortitude by not only standing up for herself when many disagreed with her, but by returning to the cellar and continuing to contribute despite things getting personal and nasty.

Originally posted by jdbutler
OK, you guys are right...apologies to any who were offended.
She is lucky to have people who are concerned for her mental well-being, unlike the welcome home reception received by many of my brothers in the late sixties thru 70's.

Then you'll just love today's DoDad.:rolleyes:

this has to be a joke

What does?