Discrimination
From cnn.com
Students disciplined for award campaign
Posters promoted white student for African American award
OMAHA, Nebraska (AP) -- Officials disciplined students who papered their nearly all-white high school with posters advocating a white student from South Africa for the school's "Distinguished African American Student Award."
Peggy Rupprecht, spokeswoman for the Westside Community Schools district, said administrators at Westside High School discovered more than a hundred of the posters throughout the school first thing Monday -- Martin Luther King Jr. Day.
"The content of the posters, they believed, was inappropriate and insensitive to some members of our school community," Rupprecht said.
Citing privacy policies, Rupprecht said she could not specify what the penalties were or how many students were disciplined. But the mother of the boy pictured on the posters said he was suspended for two days.
The award has been given the last eight years to an outstanding black student as part of the school's Martin Luther King Jr. Day celebration, she said.
The poster pictured junior Trevor Richards, 16, smiling and making a thumbs up sign. A message at the top encouraged votes for him for next year's award.
Karen Richards said her son and his friends were not trying to hurt anyone.
"My son is not a racist," she told the Omaha World-Herald. "He has black friends, friends from Bangladesh and Egypt. Color has never been an issue in our home."
"It was a very innocent thing," she said.
Two of her son's friends were disciplined along with him, she said. A fourth student was punished for circulating a petition Tuesday criticizing the practice of recognizing only black student achievement with the award, she said.
Tylena Martin, a junior, said the poster had been on the door to her homeroom class where she is the only black student. She said she felt hurt by the posters and the backlash that ensued.
According to 2002-2003 state statistics, 56 Of Westside's 1,632 students are black.
A fourth student was punished for circulating a petition Tuesday criticizing the practice of recognizing only black student achievement with the award, she said.
What next? Good grief. :rolleyes:
I don't hold with treating others differently based on the color of their skin. But I think that goes both ways. Is there an American Indian award? How about a German-American award? The list could go on. Why not have a distinguished student award, and call it a day? Then the issue would never have arisen.
Another thing is the play on words that, I think, was intended on the PC term "African American". There are a lot of shades of people from Africa. Would the issue be different if the posters were of a student from Egypt?
This is the kind of nonsense you can get into when you try to treat symptoms instead of problems. People have to learn to see all people as brothers. Are we there yet? Not by a darn sight. Was the school's response helpful. I don't think so.
If they want to honor MLK day. Why don't they give an award to the student (white, black, or in between) who best exemplifies the principles he stood for?
Would the issue be different if the posters were of a student from Egypt?
Probably not, Dar512, as the white student was from Africa. Your post is spot on.:)
I think if people want racism to go away, the first thing that must go is "racial pride".
That means affirmative action must go, that means "negro college fund" must go, that means "hisoricaly black" colleges must go and things like "Society of Black Engineers" and awards that only "Affrican Americans" are eligble for.
It's sickening frankly. You ever seen a "white college fund" or a "Society of White Engineers"?
You ever seen a "white college fund" or a "Society of White Engineers"?
HAHAH, no way! That'd be racist!
Originally posted by dar512
If they want to honor MLK day. Why don't they give an award to the student (white, black, or in between) who best exemplifies the principles he stood for?
Because if they gave it to anyone but an African-American, there is a high likelihood that it would be seen as an insult.
I find this incredibly amusing, as the awardee was probably the ONLY actual African-American in the class.
His other classmates were Americans.
(I think I've ranted on the hyphenated American thing before, so I'll stop here.)
Originally posted by FileNotFound
I think if people want racism to go away, the first thing that must go is "racial pride".
That means affirmative action must go, that means "negro college fund" must go, that means "hisoricaly black" colleges must go and things like "Society of Black Engineers" and awards that only "Affrican Americans" are eligble for.
It's sickening frankly. You ever seen a "white college fund" or a "Society of White Engineers"?
Funny: the only people that I hear saying things like this are the ones that are not truly affected by racism...intesting.
Don't tell people to get over the past when it's still haunting their
present. "Jeff"Right. Because only black people are truly affected by racism. And any black people who DO say such things are anything from abberations to hypocrites (if they've benefited from that which they oppose) to race traitors, right?
Originally posted by russotto
Right. Because only black people are truly affected by racism.
She didn't say that...
Originally posted by ladysycamore
Funny: the only people that I hear saying things like this are the ones that are not truly affected by racism...intesting.
I don't think you have to be a horse to understand horse racing. I don't think you have to be black to be offended by racism.
But I didn't see any racism in this story. At least, I didn't see the racism you saw in it. I saw some kids trying to make a joke about political correctness, racial terminology and maybe reverse racism. If only African-Americans are allowed to get this award, isn't that racism of another sort?
I'd like to see a world where all people are able to succeed based solely on their merits, not on their skin color, nation of origin, or choice of religion (or lack of religion for that matter).
I think I can honestly say that I am affected by racism when I get a smaller scholarship and am eligble for fewer scholarships simply because I'm white.
But of course thats not your idea of racism....no no no. Thats affirmative action!
Here's a little something for you. When I started my freshment year at Drexel in Information Systems in 2000, we have about 30 black/hispanic students with massive scholarships. It is now my 4th year (5 year program), fairly sure only about 10 of those are left. It gets better, they all had scholarships of some sort - yet the ones that I talked to had lesser SAT scores and school GPA than a friend of mine who had NO scholarship.
I'm not trying to say that black/hispanic studnets are stupid. I know they're not. But they do get the "easy" way in, get more benifits and yet claim to be oppressed. They get into colleges with lesser grades, lesser desire to learn, get scholarships and then drop out. Those 20 spots could have been filled by more deserving students and the money could have been better distributed.
Yeah I don't know racism at all...
Originally posted by ladysycamore
Funny: the only people that I hear saying things like this are the ones that are not truly affected by racism...intesting.
[color=indigo]
And how do you define "truly affected by racism"? [/color]
Why can't we all just be Americans? What ever happened to American pride? I thought there was this huge fight for integration a couple decades back and all these black thises and negro thats are just segregating the nation. Why can't there just be awards for outstanding students where ALL students can participate and not just the blacks? It's sad, just sad.:confused:
Originally posted by juju
She didn't say that...
LOL, thanks, I was just thinking..."Where in the fuck did they come up with THAT???"
:p
African-American: Having citizenships in an African state and an American state (nothing to do with the color of skin)
Native American also indigenous American: Born in an American state
Asian-American: Having citizenships in an Asian state and an American state (nothing to do with the color of skin)
Please note that there are 3 Americas, North America, Central America and South America
State is another meaning for country.
Originally posted by FelinesAreFine
African-American: Having citizenships in an African state and an American state (nothing to do with the color of skin)
Native American also indigenous American: Born in an American state
Asian-American: Having citizenships in an Asian state and an American state (nothing to do with the color of skin)
Please note that there are 3 Americas, North America, Central America and South America
State is another meaning for country.
Funny...I've never heard such moaning over what people call themselves culturally. Never. (that wasn't directed at you Felines, just in general).
It seemed to be perfectly ok to say "Irish-American" "Italian-American" and so forth, but as soon as "African-American" comes into the picture, suddenly it's nuclear meltdown time with some folk...goddamn! In fact, it seemed perfectly ok for the Irish, Italians, etc. who were born in America to just call themselves "Irish" or "Italian" and they weren't even born in Ireland or Italy!!!! Imagine that! They're allowed to identify themselves by culture, but blacks suddenly can't?? That's bullshit.
*pissed...* :mad: (again not at you, but in general)
Originally posted by dar512
I don't think you have to be a horse to understand horse racing. I don't think you have to be black to be offended by racism.
Understood, but I said "affected" not "offended". Any and everyone should be offended by racism, classism, sexism, etc.
Originally posted by ladysycamore
It seemed to be perfectly OK to say "Irish-American" "Italian-American" and so forth,
I couldn't agree with you more. People ask me if I'm Polish. Nope. I'm native American. "Oh! What tribe?" "No, you don't understand, I was born here, too."
Let's all dump the Whatever-American and just call ourselves American because that's what we are. No more, no less. Darker skinned people are no more African than I am from Russia. The abuse of the English language for the sake of political correctness is appalling.
Originally posted by FileNotFound
I think I can honestly say that I am affected by racism when I get a smaller scholarship and am eligble for fewer scholarships simply because I'm white.
But of course thats not your idea of racism....no no no. Thats affirmative action!
Here's a little something for you. When I started my freshment year at Drexel in Information Systems in 2000, we have about 30 black/hispanic students with massive scholarships. It is now my 4th year (5 year program), fairly sure only about 10 of those are left. It gets better, they all had scholarships of some sort - yet the ones that I talked to had lesser SAT scores and school GPA than a friend of mine who had NO scholarship.
I'm not trying to say that black/hispanic studnets are stupid. I know they're not. But they do get the "easy" way in, get more benifits and yet claim to be oppressed. They get into colleges with lesser grades, lesser desire to learn, get scholarships and then drop out. Those 20 spots could have been filled by more deserving students and the money could have been better distributed.
Yeah I don't know racism at all...
Ever been chased down the street by a gang of kids with bats
solely based on the color of your skin?
That happened to my father when he was a kid living in the Cherry Hill section of Baltimore City.
Ever been turned down for a promotion
based on race?
Again, he was (years ago), working for the Social Security Administration.
Ever been called a nigger? Again, my father has
AND I HAVE, so if the answers to those questions is
NO, then
NO I feel that you
DON'T know racism at it's deepest and nastiest.
What happens regarding schools and scholarships is a drop in the bucket compared to half the shit that still goes on out there to "minorites". What happened to James Byrd in Texas was only about 6 years ago, not 20, 30, 40, 100 years ago, and as long as shit like that can still happen, then there will always be problems with "race relations" in America.
Originally posted by FelinesAreFine
I couldn't agree with you more. People ask me if I'm Polish. Nope. I'm native American. "Oh! What tribe?" "No, you don't understand, I was born here, too."
Let's all dump the Whatever-American and just call ourselves American because that's what we are. No more, no less. Darker skinned people are no more African than I am from Russia. The abuse of the English language for the sake of political correctness is appalling.
Ah but there is something to be said about ethnic/cultural pride that FNF thinks is so "wrong". But, you made a good point regarding the whole "American" tag. You said that you were
BORN here, so yes you are American, but that's not where "your people" are from, so to speak. Everyone has immigrant ties, no matter how your forefathers and mothers came here, willingly or by force. I guess I don't consider "country of birth" as "ethnic background". Plus, isn't it sort of redundant to say that you are American when asked by another American (unless you appear to be from another country).
Many people enjoy identifying themselves by culture, and I don't see anything wrong with that. I hear Latinos all the time saying, "I'm Puerto Rican" or "I'm Mexican" etc. Or, "Oh I was born here, but my people are from...." So, I don't see where the problem lies...people can identify themselves however the hell they please. It's not up to me to tell them what to say. *shrugs*
Originally posted by OnyxCougar
[color=indigo]
And how do you define "truly affected by racism"? [/color]
I described a couple of incidents in another reply in this thread.
My people come from Earth.
Actually, I don't claim to have any "people". I have a family: my mom, my husband, sisters, etc. I guess they're my "people".
I'm just sick and tired of everyone wanting to be a victim. "They made me do it" attitudes are cop outs. No one wants to own up to their actions or lack thereof. Come on! Whatever happened to good old fashioned honest work?
Originally posted by ladysycamore
Ever been chased down the street by a gang of kids with bats [b]solely based on the color of your skin?
That happened to my father when he was a kid living in the Cherry Hill section of Baltimore City.
Ever been turned down for a promotion based on race?
Again, he was (years ago), working for the Social Security Administration.
Ever been called a nigger? Again, my father hasAND I HAVE, so if the answers to those questions is NO, then NO I feel that you DON'T know racism at it's deepest and nastiest.
What happens regarding schools and scholarships is a drop in the bucket compared to half the shit that still goes on out there to "minorites". What happened to James Byrd in Texas was only about 6 years ago, not 20, 30, 40, 100 years ago, and as long as shit like that can still happen, then there will always be problems with "race relations" in America. [/B]
All those things are evil and the people who did them should be punished. However, I don't think that makes what those boys did wrong.
I was small, weak, and bookish in school - and I got beaten up a number of times. Do I deserve a scholarship for that? Where does it end if we take the view that society
owes some group special privileges.
Originally posted by ladysycamore
Ever been chased down the street by a gang of kids with bats [b]solely based on the color of your skin?
That happened to my father when he was a kid living in the Cherry Hill section of Baltimore City.
Ever been turned down for a promotion based on race?
Again, he was (years ago), working for the Social Security Administration.
Ever been called a nigger? Again, my father hasAND I HAVE, so if the answers to those questions is NO, then NO I feel that you DON'T know racism at it's deepest and nastiest.
What happens regarding schools and scholarships is a drop in the bucket compared to half the shit that still goes on out there to "minorites". What happened to James Byrd in Texas was only about 6 years ago, not 20, 30, 40, 100 years ago, and as long as shit like that can still happen, then there will always be problems with "race relations" in America. [/B]
Give me a fricking break...
Chased down by kids with bats? It's ok, really. Assholes will find a reason not to like you no matter what color you are. Had he been white, they might have chased him down because they thought he was a fag or looked at them the wrong way. Whoop dee doo.
Turned down for a promotion based on race? Oh you poor soul. Well I can say that the white man knows how that feels just as well as the black man these days. Did I mention the scholarship/college admission thing? Well it works for jobs too. Cut that racims bullshit out, it goes both ways. Just as many blacks keep their jobs no matter how shitty they do them and get promoted because the managment is scared shitless that they'll scream "Racism!!!" if they fire or fail to promote the lazy ass.
Been called a nigger? Awww. Well it saddening that there is one additional insult people can use on you instead of the more typical, cunt, bitch, slut, whore, but hey at least they can't call you white trash. Also, in the 8 or so years that I have been in the US I have NEVER heard a WHITE person call a black person a nigger. It was always the blacks calling each other niggers...or niggahs...
Quit blowing the idiotic shit out of proportion. The racism that goes on is NOTHING along the scales of the discrimination against the gay community and I see nothing along the lines of Scholarships for Fags or the Society of Gay Engineers.
Yeah I may not have been called a nigger or chased around with bats for being black, because I'm not black; they had to find a diffrent reason. Despite being white, people found just as many reasons not to like me. Oh and in middle school there was this black kid who liked to call me "white Russian shit", why I don't know. It never bothered me much and I never saw it as a "race" thing, I saw it as being "different".
You're no worse off than I am, black or white, there is always something to hate. Maybe you would have been worse off way back when slavery was perfectly fine, but that was a long time ago, and times change. I don't see the Jews demand compensation from the Egyptians for the pyramids. Deal with it.
It's actually known now that the Egyptians didn't use slaves to build the pyramids.
Originally posted by ladysycamore
Ah but there is something to be said about ethnic/cultural pride that FNF thinks is so "wrong". But, you made a good point regarding the whole "American" tag. You said that you were [b]BORN here, so yes you are American, but that's not where "your people" are from, so to speak. Everyone has immigrant ties, no matter how your forefathers and mothers came here, willingly or by force. I guess I don't consider "country of birth" as "ethnic background". Plus, isn't it sort of redundant to say that you are American when asked by another American (unless you appear to be from another country).
Many people enjoy identifying themselves by culture, and I don't see anything wrong with that. I hear Latinos all the time saying, "I'm Puerto Rican" or "I'm Mexican" etc. Or, "Oh I was born here, but my people are from...." So, I don't see where the problem lies...people can identify themselves however the hell they please. It's not up to me to tell them what to say. *shrugs* [/B]
I think that culturally separating yourself from other people like that actually causes racism.
Racism is caused by people not understanding anything about a culture.They only see the differences and not the similarities. They say, "He ain't like us.. let's git 'im!". If, instead of separating themselves culturally, blacks made an effort to show others that they are just like everyone else, there would be less racism. This would be incredibly easy, since we have a lot more in common that we have different. But instead, blacks take their uniqueness as a sense of empowerment. That's great for them, but what about the people who still don't understand them?
With that said, I know it's not really such a black and white issue (ha!), and I think a lot of people <i>have</i> actually realized that there is little to no discernible difference, and racism is much less as a result.
Originally posted by ladysycamore
Funny...I've never heard such moaning over what people call themselves culturally. Never. (that wasn't directed at you Felines, just in general).
You've just never been around when I go into my "I'm an American, not a hyphenated one, dammit" speech.
I actually feel strongly about this issue as well.
One of the deals of being an AMERICAN is that our forebears gave up alliegances and ties to their former homes, and embraced this NEW country.
This was the case up until only recently in our country's history, actually.
Originally posted by juju
It's actually known now that the Egyptians didn't use slaves to build the pyramids.
The extraterrestrials that did the initial design work helped them.
Until you have heard a white person confide his racism to you its hard to understand what black folk have to put up with. I grew up in backwater Georgia and I've had things told to me "in confidence" that I really didn't need to hear. Things that were pretty shocking in terms of what they revealed is really going on out there.
What I'm hearing a lot of in this thread is many people who do not harbor racists viewpoints attempting to advance the argument that racism really isn't that prevalent anymore. An easy trap to fall into - I don't see it so it must be paranoia on the victim's part.
Its not the obvious James Byrd stuff. Its much more subtle and much more insidious than that. Sometimes I wonder if all Dr. King did was push racism underground. Again, until you have enountered a true racist you are not seeing the whole picture.
As Chris Rock said while onstage to a mostly white audience, "I'm black and I'm rich and not one of you mother-fuckers would even think of trading places with me." He got a big laugh but he also got a lot of people thinking.
The problem that victims of racism need to try their best to avoid is using it as an excuse. To do so is to be nailed twice - the first by chance and the second by choice.
Blacks aren't the only victims of racism.
Originally posted by Beestie
[snip]An easy trap to fall into - I don't see it so it must be paranoia on the victim's part.
[...]
The problem that victims of racism need to try their best to avoid is using it as an excuse. To do so is to be nailed twice - the first by chance and the second by choice.
Applause. Very well said.
Work needs to be done on both sides of the fence.
Don't condone racism (or be a racist)
Don't fall into the trap of labeling yourself as a perpetual "victim".
(I've actually seen both sides of the race issue. Most people can't tell what my background is.)
- Pie
Originally posted by ladysycamore
Ever been called a nigger? Again, my father hasAND I HAVE, so if the answers to those questions is NO, then NO I feel that you DON'T know racism at it's deepest and nastiest.
Well, I guess that answers your own question about where my claim that you said you could only understand racism if you're black comes along.
For the record, I'm not black and I've never been called a nigger. I have been called a number of other things, including "dago" and "wetback". I didn't know what those were; I was pretty amused when I found out the idiot calling those that had used the _wrong_ racial slurs. How many points towards college admission is that worth?
The question is not "does racism exist?" We know it still does.
The question is not "is racism bad?" We all agree that it is.
The question at hand is "do people of a particular color/origin/faith deserve special privileges because some people of their color/origin/faith have been subject to racism?"
People of my color have been put down, therefore society / school / government owes me a greater chance at school awards, scholarships, government contracts etc. as compensation for being the target of racism.
Originally posted by dar512
snip
People of my color have been put down, therefore society / school / government owes me a greater chance at school awards, scholarships, government contracts etc. as compensation for being the target of racism.
a better chance than your predecessors had, or a better chance than people of other colors?
A better chance than anyone not of my color/faith/origin.
That is, does the government etc. owe me an advantage over other applicants.
It's not easy being green.
Dang, Bruce. I was gonna say that.
[COLOR=indigo]I think the point of the first post was that the kids got busted for promoting a TRUE african-american student for an award that is only eligible to "african-americans".
But he wasn't eligible because he was white.
And the kids saw the problem in that.
Had I been those kids parents, I would have thrown the biggest, baddest, famous lawyer-gettin-ist hissy you've ever seen.
Bust my kid because YOU (as an administration) are racist?
Oh yeah. I can hear the settlement now.....
And by the way:
I am white, but I HAVE felt the sting of racism. You see, I was married to a black man, and I have a half black child. I've been spit on and called "nigger-lover". And yeah, it sucks. When people see me out with my 3 children, they assume I'm simply babysitting the little girl, just because the boys are blonde like me.
And I think that school's policy of only giving the "award" to black kids is disgusting. It PROMOTES continued segregation. If they offer a "black only" award, they better have a "white only" award and an "asian only" reward and a "pacific-islander only" award and an "middle-eastern only" award and while you're at it, make a "half white and half black" and "half black and half asian"........etc. Or else just offer a fuckinig "best student" award.
[/COLOR]
I don't think we're at the point where Affirmative Action should be dropped. I think the whole concept sucks ass, and I hope I'll see the end of it in my lifetime. And I'm glad to see that society has become more tolerant and understanding of minorities (of all types) in my lifetime, but I think we still have a long way to go.
It's a small price to pay for a mammoth fuck up.
Originally posted by sycamore
It's a small price to pay for a mammoth fuck up.
I think it's the wrong solution for a mammoth fuck-up.
I believe strongly in personal responsibility. For example, if an admissions person at your local college passes over entrants because of color/religion/origin
that person and their boss should both be fined and/or serve jail time. Ther person for doing it, and the boss because they should know what their people are doing. That puts the negative consequences where they belong - on the perpetrator(s).
Quotas only harm other entrants and continue 'us vs. them' thinking.
I'm interested in hearing how the issue with DaimlerChrysler comes out.
Originally posted by FelinesAreFine
My people come from Earth.
Actually, I don't claim to have any "people". I have a family: my mom, my husband, sisters, etc. I guess they're my "people".
I'm just sick and tired of everyone wanting to be a victim. "They made me do it" attitudes are cop outs. No one wants to own up to their actions or lack thereof. Come on! Whatever happened to good old fashioned honest work?
Nobody is debating honest work. But do you REALLY believe that the playing field is 100% equal? If it TRULY were, we would never have these conversations about race/cultures, etc. It's not about being a victim...truth is spoken when "minorities" talk about hitting the "glass ceiling" on the job because of race or gender, it's not a "myth" when "minorities" get turned down for bank loans and their credit is just as good as their white counterparts, and so on.
There are hundreds of stories out there that people can tell about their personal experiences with racism and IMO, more people need to listen and realize that just because the Civil Right Movement happened, doesn't mean that things are "ok" now. Sure, they are better...certainly, but there is much more work to be done.
Originally posted by dar512
All those things are evil and the people who did them should be punished. However, I don't think that makes what those boys did wrong.
I was small, weak, and bookish in school - and I got beaten up a number of times. Do I deserve a scholarship for that? Where does it end if we take the view that society owes some group special privileges.
So are you saying that everyone is totally and completely equal now, and need to not worry about being discriminated against at the job, in school, etc.?
Originally posted by FileNotFound
Chased down by kids with bats? It's ok, really. Assholes will find a reason not to like you no matter what color you are. Had he been white, they might have chased him down because they thought he was a fag or looked at them the wrong way. Whoop dee doo.
You've obviously never been to Cherry Hill, MD.
Turned down for a promotion based on race? Oh you poor soul. Well I can say that the white man knows how that feels just as well as the black man these days.
Hrm...and
NOW they have a problem with it
NOW that the shoe is on the other foot...amazing...all these years they had been silent, because...their way of life was secure. They didn't have to worry about their job, getting loans, scholarships, housing, and so on. Veddy Interesting...
Did I mention the scholarship/college admission thing?
People who share your argument
constantly do. :rolleyes:
Well it works for jobs too. Cut that racims bullshit out, it goes both ways. Just as many blacks keep their jobs no matter how shitty they do them and get promoted because the managment is scared shitless that they'll scream "Racism!!!" if they fire or fail to promote the lazy ass.
Again, first hand accounts beats opinion anyday. How many whites do you know that have filed suits against blacks for work discrimination and have won?
Been called a nigger? Awww. Well it saddening that there is one additional insult people can use on you instead of the more typical, cunt, bitch, slut, whore, but hey at least they can't call you white trash.
LOL, you're right about that, but however those other insults have no effect on me whatsoever. Actually, bitch seems...almost empowering. :haha:
Also, in the 8 or so years that I have been in the US I have NEVER heard a WHITE person call a black person a nigger. It was always the blacks calling each other niggers...or niggahs...
LMAO!OhmyGod, that's hilarious!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :thumb: Wow, I guess because he has never heard a white person call a black person a nigger, THEN IT MUST HAVE NEVER HAPPENED EVER IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND AND SO IT MUST BE OK!!!!
Quit blowing the idiotic shit out of proportion.
Only until you stop having constant nuclear meltdowns everytime someone disagrees with ya...deal? :D
The racism that goes on is NOTHING along the scales of the discrimination against the gay community and I see nothing along the lines of Scholarships for Fags or the Society of Gay Engineers.
{sings}"I see your truuuue colors shinin' through...."
Yeah I may not have been called a nigger or chased around with bats for being black, because I'm not black; they had to find a diffrent reason. Despite being white, people found just as many reasons not to like me. Oh and in middle school there was this black kid who liked to call me "white Russian shit", why I don't know. It never bothered me much and I never saw it as a "race" thing, I saw it as being "different".
To use your words, "Whoop dee doo". So this means...what? That everyone
must react in the same manner as you did?
You're no worse off than I am, black or white, there is always something to hate. Maybe you would have been worse off way back when slavery was perfectly fine, but that was a long time ago, and times change. I don't see the Jews demand compensation from the Egyptians for the pyramids. Deal with it.
Oh believe me, I will...in my own way.
Originally posted by juju
I think that culturally separating yourself from other people like that actually causes racism.
Racism is caused by people not understanding anything about a culture.They only see the differences and not the similarities. They say, "He ain't like us.. let's git 'im!". If, instead of separating themselves culturally, blacks made an effort to show others that they are just like everyone else, there would be less racism. This would be incredibly easy, since we have a lot more in common that we have different. But instead, blacks take their uniqueness as a sense of empowerment. That's great for them, but what about the people who still don't understand them?
But see, I personally don't think that is "our" problem to correct. If one wants to learn, then they know where to go and what to do in order to learn. They need to talk and communicate, but if there is a feeling of "Oh, I can work with 'those' people, but I don't have to be friends with them or understand them", then that's where the problem lies, and historically that has always been part of the problem. I say that we should learn and RESPECT the differences and not use them as weapons. Also, I strongly believe that until society gets truly honest about differences in others and have truthful dialogue, then will things like racism, sexism, classism and all other bad "isms" will slowly start to dissipate and perhaps even be no more.
With that said, I know it's not really such a black and white issue (ha!), and I think a lot of people <i>have</i> actually realized that there is little to no discernible difference, and racism is much less as a result.
Duly noted...thanks again.:)
Originally posted by dar512
I'm interested in hearing how the issue with DaimlerChrysler comes out.
what issue?
Originally posted by wolf
[B]
You've just never been around when I go into my "I'm an American, not a hyphenated one, dammit" speech.
I actually feel strongly about this issue as well.
One of the deals of being an AMERICAN is that our forebears gave up alliegances and ties to their former homes, and embraced this NEW country.
But that's not a strong point in the history of many blacks. Many Africans did not come here willingingly (and no, this is not an argument about who sold whom into slavery...that's not for you Wolf, but in a general context), and many of them did not embrace this country (at least not out of some sense of patriotism...the story of The Amistad speaks of this). Then, there was the issue of not even acknowledging blacks as humans or some such nonsense. Sure, we're acknowledged NOW, but still being disenfranchised in certain areas, so how "American" are we really? I mean in EVERY sense of the word? I say it's mainly by either birthright or being sworn in., but in other areas...hm...not sure if we're there just yet.
I wish my Dad was online...he can state a lot of these types of opinions better than I can. ;)
Originally posted by russotto
[B]
Well, I guess that answers your own question about where my claim that you said you could only understand racism if you're black comes along.
NO because I go on exact WORDS and I did NOT say that only blacks understood racism. I'm coming from a black point of view, so of COURSE I'm going to make my comments centered around black issues. I certainly can't come from a Latino POV now can I?
Originally posted by ladysycamore
quote:
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Originally posted by FileNotFound
Chased down by kids with bats? It's ok, really. Assholes will find a reason not to like you no matter what color you are. Had he been white, they might have chased him down because they thought he was a fag or looked at them the wrong way. Whoop dee doo.
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You've obviously never been to Cherry Hill, MD.
Nope. I bet you've never been to Erlangen, Germany. Whats your point?
quote:
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Turned down for a promotion based on race? Oh you poor soul. Well I can say that the white man knows how that feels just as well as the black man these days.
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Hrm...and NOW they have a problem with it NOW that the shoe is on the other foot...amazing...all these years they had been silent, because...their way of life was secure. They didn't have to worry about their job, getting loans, scholarships, housing, and so on. Veddy Interesting...
When has the white man NOT had to worry about jobs? The 50s? I'm sorry but the white man is faced by MORE problems than a black man as far as job security. It's MUCH harder to fire a black man than a white one.
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Did I mention the scholarship/college admission thing?
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People who share your argument constantly do.
And people who share your argument constantly ignore it.
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Well it works for jobs too. Cut that racims bullshit out, it goes both ways. Just as many blacks keep their jobs no matter how shitty they do them and get promoted because the managment is scared shitless that they'll scream "Racism!!!" if they fire or fail to promote the lazy ass.
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Again, first hand accounts beats opinion anyday. How many whites do you know that have filed suits against blacks for work discrimination and have won?
Just because they've never won doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. When people say "racism" they assume whites discriminating blacks. Anyone trying to use racism to describe the inverse will get kicked out of court becasue of affirmative action etc.
quote:
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Been called a nigger? Awww. Well it saddening that there is one additional insult people can use on you instead of the more typical, cunt, bitch, slut, whore, but hey at least they can't call you white trash.
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LOL, you're right about that, but however those other insults have no effect on me whatsoever. Actually, bitch seems...almost empowering.
Alright bitch, so what's so bad about nigger? If the black community wants 'nigger' to go away, I suggest they stop using it first.
Imagine if the white community said "Dude" is a BAD BAD BAD RACIST word, you say it, we'll fire you, sue you, ruin your life. The next day on the subway every single white guy says "Hey whats up dude." "How's it hanging dude" "Dude!" But if a black guy says that...oh no! Can't have that! CRUCIFY HIM!!!
But thanks for ignoring my initial point.
quote:
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Also, in the 8 or so years that I have been in the US I have NEVER heard a WHITE person call a black person a nigger. It was always the blacks calling each other niggers...or niggahs...
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LMAO!OhmyGod, that's hilarious!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Wow, I guess because he has never heard a white person call a black person a nigger, THEN IT MUST HAVE NEVER HAPPENED EVER IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND AND SO IT MUST BE OK!!!!
Nope but it must be very rare and not the "The sky is falling" kind of crisis you make it out to be.
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Quit blowing the idiotic shit out of proportion.
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Only until you stop having constant nuclear meltdowns everytime someone disagrees with ya...deal?
- Said she after posting how many replies in a row?
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The racism that goes on is NOTHING along the scales of the discrimination against the gay community and I see nothing along the lines of Scholarships for Fags or the Society of Gay Engineers.
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{sings}"I see your truuuue colors shinin' through...."
Oh I'm gay now? Great. Very mature. And what if I was? Yes? Is that bad? No? Why do you poke fun at it then? Go ahead..tell me. Do you discriminate against gay people?
But thanks for ignoring me once again.
quote:
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Yeah I may not have been called a nigger or chased around with bats for being black, because I'm not black; they had to find a diffrent reason. Despite being white, people found just as many reasons not to like me. Oh and in middle school there was this black kid who liked to call me "white Russian shit", why I don't know. It never bothered me much and I never saw it as a "race" thing, I saw it as being "different".
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To use your words, "Whoop dee doo". So this means...what? That everyone must react in the same manner as you did?
Would be nice if they did. I think we'd live in a far happier place.
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You're no worse off than I am, black or white, there is always something to hate. Maybe you would have been worse off way back when slavery was perfectly fine, but that was a long time ago, and times change. I don't see the Jews demand compensation from the Egyptians for the pyramids. Deal with it.
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Oh believe me, I will...in my own way.
Yeah alright..whatever that means...as long as it doesn't invovle a train load of posts in 5 seconds.
I've experienced the ugly racism towards "messicans". Based on my looks, I was denied to even be handed a job application for a hotel front desk job, but they would certainly like me in the kitchen. When I informed them that I was not "messican" and also that my ethnic persuasion should really not be a factor, I was reluctantly, nervously ,handed the job application. I took it , but decided I'd rather be in the kitchen anyway (great illegal chorizo tacos). That was 1991, Texas. That was one of countless racist things witnessed. Frankly I was amazed at the tolerance of my latin american pals.
Originally posted by ladysycamore
Nobody is debating honest work. But do you REALLY believe that the playing field is 100% equal?
In legal terms, the playing field is now slanted towards certain favored minorities.
conversations about race/cultures, etc. It's not about being a victim...truth is spoken when "minorities" talk about hitting the "glass ceiling" on the job because of race or gender, it's not a "myth" when "minorities" get turned down for bank loans and their credit is just as good as their white counterparts, and so on.
Ah. So for every "minority" passed over for promotion because of their minority status, a white male at a different job in a different company will be passed over for promotion because of his non-minority status. For every minority turned down for a bank loan because they're a minority, a white man applying at a different bank will be turned down because he's a white man. That's affirmative action for you. And if you don't understand why you don't have to be a racist to object to it, there's no hope for you.
Originally posted by OnyxCougar
I think the point of the first post was that the kids got busted for promoting a TRUE african-american student for an award that is only eligible to "african-americans".
But he wasn't eligible because he was white.
But wait: I thought he was from South Africa and that they called themselves
"Afrikaners" .
And I think that school's policy of only giving the "award" to black kids is disgusting. It PROMOTES continued segregation. If they offer a "black only" award, they better have a "white only" award and an "asian only" reward and a "pacific-islander only" award and an "middle-eastern only" award and while you're at it, make a "half white and half black" and "half black and half asian"........etc. Or else just offer a fuckinig "best student" award.
While I agree, I again find it ironic that after 8 years, someone
NOW has a problem with the award:
"The award has been given the last eight years to an outstanding black student as part of the school's Martin Luther King Jr. Day celebration."
So I'd say that the white student doesn't qualify based on the fact that the award is meant for a "black" student. Plus, since many people are so bent on dictionary definitions:
Main Entry: Af·ro-Amer·i·can
Pronunciation: "a-frO-&-'mer-&-k&n
Function: noun
: an American of African and especially of black African descent
- Afro-American adjective
*When you look up "African-American", it directs you to "Afro-American".*
My focus is the "especially of black African descent", because society (for the most part) knowns and understands that Af/American means "black".
Many may not agree with that, but I have yet to hear of a white OR black African who is now an American citizen call themselves "African-American". They normally identify themselves by culture or ethnicity.
It also seems to me that no one didn't have
THAT much to say about the term "African-American" in the beginning, but for some reason NOW it causes certain people to have meltdowns galore! If people want to be known as just "Americans" then everyone needs to be treated like one.
So why is it ok to have awards that only black kids are allowed to get but not ok to have awards that only white kids can get?
Where is the equal treatment?
Damn, ladysycamore, why do you not see what is obviously happening here? There's all these programs for "minorities and affirmative action, which in reality is legal racism hiding behind political correctness. There's NOTHING for people who are Caucasian. Because if there was, it would be called racism. I know you're going to debate this and get your panties in a bunch. But you can't deny this. You'd be blind and stupid if you did. You've been trying to prove everyone wrong since the beginning of this thread. I don't think you're going to convert anyone to your cause. It's sad to see a country afraid to do what's right because its citizens are afraid to get sued over being called a racist.
There's NOTHING for people who are Caucasian.
What a stupid statement.
Ok warch, name me a program that only whites can apply to.
A white only scholarship, a white only award, anything alone those lines.
Originally posted by FileNotFound
quote:Originally posted by ladysycamore
You've obviously never been to Cherry Hill, MD.
Nope. I bet you've never been to Erlangen, Germany. Whats your point?
Wow, you totally missed it...oh well. No, I haven't been to Germany, therefore I don't know that culture and that area, just as much as you don't know anything about Cherry Hill or you wouldn't have mentioned anything about gays or looking at someone funny. That's NOT what that neighborhood was about. It was about being black, and not being on the "wrong" side of the street or else you'd get your head bashed in.
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Turned down for a promotion based on race? Oh you poor soul. Well I can say that the white man knows how that feels just as well as the black man these days.
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Hrm...and NOW they have a problem with it NOW that the shoe is on the other foot...amazing...all these years they had been silent, because...their way of life was secure. They didn't have to worry about their job, getting loans, scholarships, housing, and so on. Veddy Interesting...
When has the white man NOT had to worry about jobs? The 50s? I'm sorry but the white man is faced by MORE problems than a black man as far as job security. It's MUCH harder to fire a black man than a white one.
*snickers* Not really. You can fire the black man all you goddamned want to, it's just that the employer doesn't want the lawsuit (and whites can sue just as much as any black person if they feel like they have been discriminated against for ANY reason).
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Did I mention the scholarship/college admission thing?
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People who share your argument constantly do.
And people who share your argument constantly ignore it.
Because it's the only arguement that you seem to have regarding racism against whites. Plus, don't get mad just because the answer isn't what you want to hear.
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Well it works for jobs too. Cut that racims bullshit out, it goes both ways. Just as many blacks keep their jobs no matter how shitty they do them and get promoted because the managment is scared shitless that they'll scream "Racism!!!" if they fire or fail to promote the lazy ass.
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Again, first hand accounts beats opinion anyday. How many whites do you know that have filed suits against blacks for work discrimination and have won?
Just because they've never won doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.
Your assumption, not mine.
When people say "racism" they assume whites discriminating blacks. Anyone trying to use racism to describe the inverse will get kicked out of court becasue of affirmative action etc.
Please...with this modern society sueing each other left and right? SOMEbody's going to give that white person a chance to be heard in court someday and you know this.
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Been called a nigger? Awww. Well it saddening that there is one additional insult people can use on you instead of the more typical, cunt, bitch, slut, whore, but hey at least they can't call you white trash.
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LOL, you're right about that, but however those other insults have no effect on me whatsoever. Actually, bitch seems...almost empowering.
Alright bitch, so what's so bad about nigger? If the black community wants 'nigger' to go away, I suggest they stop using it first.
Ooo, It must have felt soooo good to call me that. :rolleyes:
But seriously, blacks not saying "niggah" to each other will
NOT stop whites (or others) from calling a black person a nigger, and to believe otherwise is a foolish notion indeed.
Imagine if the white community said "Dude" is a BAD BAD BAD RACIST word, you say it, we'll fire you, sue you, ruin your life. The next day on the subway every single white guy says "Hey whats up dude." "How's it hanging dude" "Dude!" But if a black guy says that...oh no! Can't have that! CRUCIFY HIM!!!
We're talking context here, but again, you knew this.
But thanks for ignoring my initial point.
And thanks for allowing me to see what I'm working with..that helps a lot.
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The racism that goes on is NOTHING along the scales of the discrimination against the gay community and I see nothing along the lines of Scholarships for Fags or the Society of Gay Engineers.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
{sings}"I see your truuuue colors shinin' through...."
Oh I'm gay now? Great. Very mature. And what if I was? Yes? Is that bad? No? Why do you poke fun at it then? Go ahead..tell me. Do you discriminate against gay people?
Careful: you're paranoia is showing. :haha:
Originally posted by russotto
quote:Originally posted by ladysycamore
Nobody is debating honest work. But do you REALLY believe that the playing field is 100% equal?
[quote]In legal terms, the playing field is now slanted towards certain favored minorities.
And the playing field has
ALWAYS been slanted toward whites, so if it is slanted now towards "minorites", why is it such a problem now? I know the answer to that, but I'm curious as to what your answer might be.
quote:
conversations about race/cultures, etc. It's not about being a victim...truth is spoken when "minorities" talk about hitting the "glass ceiling" on the job because of race or gender, it's not a "myth" when "minorities" get turned down for bank loans and their credit is just as good as their white counterparts, and so on.
Ah. So for every "minority" passed over for promotion because of their minority status, a white male at a different job in a different company will be passed over for promotion because of his non-minority status. For every minority turned down for a bank loan because they're a minority, a white man applying at a different bank will be turned down because he's a white man.
Say what? If I get turned down for a loan, somebody white will too??? LMAO, okaaayyyy.....
That's affirmative action for you. And if you don't understand why you don't have to be a racist to object to it, there's no hope for you.
Oh there's plenty of hope for me...that's not up to
YOU to decide anyway, so don't worry about it.
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Originally posted by FileNotFound
quote:Originally posted by ladysycamore
You've obviously never been to Cherry Hill, MD.
Nope. I bet you've never been to Erlangen, Germany. Whats your point?
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Wow, you totally missed it...oh well. No, I haven't been to Germany, therefore I don't know that culture and that area, just as much as you don't know anything about Cherry Hill or you wouldn't have mentioned anything about gays or looking at someone funny. That's NOT what that neighborhood was about. It was about being black, and not being on the "wrong" side of the street or else you'd get your head bashed in.
The keyword being "was". Thank you for proving my point.
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Turned down for a promotion based on race? Oh you poor soul. Well I can say that the white man knows how that feels just as well as the black man these days.
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Hrm...and NOW they have a problem with it NOW that the shoe is on the other foot...amazing...all these years they had been silent, because...their way of life was secure. They didn't have to worry about their job, getting loans, scholarships, housing, and so on. Veddy Interesting...
quote:
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When has the white man NOT had to worry about jobs? The 50s? I'm sorry but the white man is faced by MORE problems than a black man as far as job security. It's MUCH harder to fire a black man than a white one.
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*snickers* Not really. You can fire the black man all you goddamned want to, it's just that the employer doesn't want the lawsuit (and whites can sue just as much as any black person if they feel like they have been discriminated against for ANY reason).
Thats bullshit and you know that. Whites can't sue that they got fired and a black man took their job in order to fill quatas.
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Did I mention the scholarship/college admission thing?
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People who share your argument constantly do.
quote:
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And people who share your argument constantly ignore it.
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Because it's the only arguement that you seem to have regarding racism against whites. Plus, don't get mad just because the answer isn't what you want to hear.
No it's the only argument you have somewhat accepted. You ignore all the job realted arguments.
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Well it works for jobs too. Cut that racims bullshit out, it goes both ways. Just as many blacks keep their jobs no matter how shitty they do them and get promoted because the managment is scared shitless that they'll scream "Racism!!!" if they fire or fail to promote the lazy ass.
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Again, first hand accounts beats opinion anyday. How many whites do you know that have filed suits against blacks for work discrimination and have won?
quote:
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Just because they've never won doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.
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Your assumption, not mine.
quote:
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When people say "racism" they assume whites discriminating blacks. Anyone trying to use racism to describe the inverse will get kicked out of court becasue of affirmative action etc.
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Please...with this modern society sueing each other left and right? SOMEbody's going to give that white person a chance to be heard in court someday and you know this.
You know that they won't. The black 'minority' is so strong that they'd never let he case be heard. Remember when Street was accused of corruption? What was the excuse? Racists FBI! Nope sorry. There is NO such thing as racism agaisnt whites in the US. According to current politics only blacks are affected by racism.
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Been called a nigger? Awww. Well it saddening that there is one additional insult people can use on you instead of the more typical, cunt, bitch, slut, whore, but hey at least they can't call you white trash.
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LOL, you're right about that, but however those other insults have no effect on me whatsoever. Actually, bitch seems...almost empowering.
quote:
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Alright bitch, so what's so bad about nigger? If the black community wants 'nigger' to go away, I suggest they stop using it first.
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Ooo, It must have felt soooo good to call me that.
But seriously, blacks not saying "niggah" to each other will NOT stop whites (or others) from calling a black person a nigger, and to believe otherwise is a foolish notion indeed.
Nah Ignorant Stubborn Bitch would have felt better.
You still haven't explained why it's so offensive or such a big deal or why it's ok for blacks to use it and not ok for whites.
quote:
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Imagine if the white community said "Dude" is a BAD BAD BAD RACIST word, you say it, we'll fire you, sue you, ruin your life. The next day on the subway every single white guy says "Hey whats up dude." "How's it hanging dude" "Dude!" But if a black guy says that...oh no! Can't have that! CRUCIFY HIM!!!
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We're talking context here, but again, you knew this.
Define context. I've heard it used by blacks in both ways.
quote:
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But thanks for ignoring my initial point.
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And thanks for allowing me to see what I'm working with..that helps a lot.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The racism that goes on is NOTHING along the scales of the discrimination against the gay community and I see nothing along the lines of Scholarships for Fags or the Society of Gay Engineers.
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{sings}"I see your truuuue colors shinin' through...."
quote:
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Oh I'm gay now? Great. Very mature. And what if I was? Yes? Is that bad? No? Why do you poke fun at it then? Go ahead..tell me. Do you discriminate against gay people?
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Careful: you're paranoia is showing.
Is it parania? Why are you changing the subject. Did you not imply that I was gay? Did you not imply it in such a way as to say that it was something I was trying to hide or should have been ashamed off?
quote:
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Originally posted by russotto
quote:Originally posted by ladysycamore
Nobody is debating honest work. But do you REALLY believe that the playing field is 100% equal?
[quote]In legal terms, the playing field is now slanted towards certain favored minorities.
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And the playing field has ALWAYS been slanted toward whites, so if it is slanted now towards "minorites", why is it such a problem now? I know the answer to that, but I'm curious as to what your answer might be.
Two wrongs don't make a right.
Originally posted by FileNotFound
So why is it ok to have awards that only black kids are allowed to get but not ok to have awards that only white kids can get?
Where is the equal treatment?
Because for 8 years, that school had
NO PROBLEM WHATSOEVER acknowledging black students doing well. And let's face it: this school is in OMAHA, Nebraska, with only 56 black students in it (out of over 1600). You honestly think that if they decide to make an award for all students, that there isn't a chance that a black student would not be overlooked (and some lame ass excuse used for
WHY they were overlooked)?
A white only scholarship, a white only award, anything alone those lines.
There have always been such things, they just don't CALL it that.
Originally posted by ladysycamore
Because for 8 years, that school had [b]NO PROBLEM WHATSOEVER acknowledging black students doing well. And let's face it: this school is in OMAHA, Nebraska, with only 56 black students in it (out of over 1600). You honestly think that if they decide to make an award for all students, that there isn't a chance that a black student would not be overlooked (and some lame ass excuse used for WHY they were overlooked)? [/B]
WTF is this shit? Assumptionmatic? Are you MsCleo all of a sudden? You can see all the alternate realities?
I dare say that if the kid had a 4.00 GPA, he'd not be overlooked. Black kids were not overlooked in the schools I went to.
If you said "The kid was overlooked." I'd say yeah...that sucks. We'll have to fix that.
But thats not the case.
By the way, having a black only prize implies that they're inferior to whites and need thier own special little award. Frankly, if I was black, I'd hate that and find it offensive. I don't get "special" grades on my English papers due to it being my 3rd language or because I'm Russian. If I did, I'd be pissed.
Oh and here's the other group who have their own special awards:
http://www.funfreepages.com/prize/
Academic Achievment awards are always given out based on just that. They were in Australia, and they were in the highschool that I went to (Radnor HS), and get this, we had 2 awards go to black kids without any special rule existing. They were just damn smart and worked their asses off. Oh yeah and I was fairly good friends with one of them...he helped me out on a few tests..
Originally posted by Undertoad
There have always been such things, they just don't CALL it that.
And they are?
Golf Clubs? Come on...
Originally posted by FelinesAreFine
Damn, ladysycamore, why do you not see what is obviously happening here?
Damn, FelinesAreFine, I see more than you realize, trust me.
There's all these programs for "minorities and affirmative action, which in reality is legal racism hiding behind political correctness. There's NOTHING for people who are Caucasian.
There was/is no need for people who are Caucasian, because they've already been taken care of, if you will. Remember: these programs were put into place why? Because Caucasians thought it would be a good idea to keep "minorities" and women from what they had a right to pursue: jobs, homes, cars, money, schooling, opportunities.
Because if there was, it would be called racism. But you can't deny this. You've been trying to prove everyone wrong since the beginning of this thread.
I have every right to express my POV just as you do or anyone else. Never did I threaten/demand/ask/ anyone to subscribe to my POV. Everyone is entitled to what they feel. *shrugs*
I don't think you're going to convert anyone to your cause.
My "cause"...LMAO, how quaint.
It's sad to see a country afraid to do what's right because its citizens are afraid to get sued over being called a racist.
Another true color moment...brilliant. Thanks. :D
Awright.
Its standard operating procedure for colleges to give preferential enrollment consideration, favoritism if you will, active recruitment, scholarship opportunities to "Legacies" If mom or dad is an allumi, you get the tip. The vast majority of these, for over 100 + years have been lily white. Tilt.
and another example: My mother, through her ladies circle in a small Illinois town, sits on a society committee that give scholarships to students from that social group/ her community. All recipients are lily white and have been for 100+ years. Tilt.
White churches, Kwanis, Knights of Columbus, social orders and organizations, established over a great many years in, ecomonically rooted and based on our history of white patrimony and dedicated to the education and advancement of young people from their communities give thousand of scholarships each year. The vast, vast majority are white. Tilt.
Now you are begrudging the scholarships and "special treatment" doled out at Drexel. Well, I would argue that the investment in the education of those students of color,even if some or several drop out and fail, those that succeed not only enrich your experience, at least broaden it, but they will serve to help establish the community-bases, the legacies needed to offer truly equal educational opportunites. And maybe, eventually your the claim of no favors for the white will ring true. But not today.
Originally posted by FileNotFound
{me}
Wow, you totally missed it...oh well. No, I haven't been to Germany, therefore I don't know that culture and that area, just as much as you don't know anything about Cherry Hill or you wouldn't have mentioned anything about gays or looking at someone funny. That's NOT what that neighborhood was about. It was about being black, and not being on the "wrong" side of the street or else you'd get your head bashed in.
The keyword being "was". Thank you for proving my point.
No, thank you for proving mine...again, you've never been there so you don't know HOW it is now, however I do.
*snickers* Not really. You can fire the black man all you goddamned want to, it's just that the employer doesn't want the lawsuit (and whites can sue just as much as any black person if they feel like they have been discriminated against for ANY reason).
Thats bullshit and you know that. Whites can't sue that they got fired and a black man took their job in order to fill quatas.
The fuck they can't! ANYONE can file a lawsuit for just about ANY reason. If they feel they got a case (and especially if they have proof!), you better believe they'll file that suit, in a goddamned heartbeat.
Because it's the only arguement that you seem to have regarding racism against whites. Plus, don't get mad just because the answer isn't what you want to hear.
No it's the only argument you have somewhat accepted. You ignore all the job realted arguments.
If that is what you want to believe...*shrugs*
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When people say "racism" they assume whites discriminating blacks. Anyone trying to use racism to describe the inverse will get kicked out of court becasue of affirmative action etc.
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Please...with this modern society sueing each other left and right? SOMEbody's going to give that white person a chance to be heard in court someday and you know this.
You know that they won't. The black 'minority' is so strong that they'd never let he case be heard. Remember when Street was accused of corruption? What was the excuse? Racists FBI! Nope sorry. There is NO such thing as racism agaisnt whites in the US. According to current politics only blacks are affected by racism.
Wow, you based that on ONE INCIDENT???? Sheesh....
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Alright bitch, so what's so bad about nigger? If the black community wants 'nigger' to go away, I suggest they stop using it first.
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Ooo, It must have felt soooo good to call me that.
But seriously, blacks not saying "niggah" to each other will NOT stop whites (or others) from calling a black person a nigger, and to believe otherwise is a foolish notion indeed.
Nah Ignorant Stubborn Bitch would have felt better.
Whoa, you're battin' a thousand today on those "moments" that I spoke of earlier...
You still haven't explained why it's so offensive or such a big deal or why it's ok for blacks to use it and not ok for whites.
Ok, here's the explaination (which will probably not be "good enough" for you anyway, but you asked, so...)
It's all about context. Historically, when it's been said by whites to blacks, it was done in a way that was evil, nasty, derogatory and insulting...the tone, facial expression and hate behind it was evident. When blacks started using it towards each other in the context of "what up niggah", it's not said in hate. Either that's "right" or "wrong" it's not up to whites to tell blacks to not use it anymore and say "Well, if you guys say it, then we can say it"...it's just not a good idea quite frankly. You weren't here in the States when "Honky" was the word of choice to call "whitey" (back in the seventies). However, if whites called each other that in endearment, you didn't hear blacks crying, "Well, if THEY can use it towards each other, then we can say it to them toooooo". Know why? Because Blacks didn't give a shit about that! (at least THIS black person doesn't). I don't give a fuck WHAT white people call themselves because there are other things that I need to concern myself with.
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The racism that goes on is NOTHING along the scales of the discrimination against the gay community and I see nothing along the lines of Scholarships for Fags or the Society of Gay Engineers.
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{sings}"I see your truuuue colors shinin' through...."
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Oh I'm gay now? Great. Very mature. And what if I was? Yes? Is that bad? No? Why do you poke fun at it then? Go ahead..tell me. Do you discriminate against gay people?
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Careful: you're paranoia is showing.
Is it parania?
"Parania"? :confused:
Why are you changing the subject. Did you not imply that I was gay?
Nope. I implied that you were having a "true color moment", which you seem to have many of. Thanks though...it makes things MUCH more clearer.
Did you not imply it in such a way as to say that it was something I was trying to hide or should have been ashamed off?
Erm...nooooo. It...
really has no bearing on this conversation whatsoever, so calm down.
This is so pointless..I'm going to go and jerk off with some alcohol and salt soaked sand paper. It's a lot less painful that this.
From 1993-1995 I worked for Clemens Markets, a family-owned chain of grocery stores. At the time they had a workplace of about 1600 people in 14 grocery stores. The entire organization was run out of a central office where the executives worked. There were about 75 people in the central office. There was not one single non-white in the central office.
There were minorities in the stores, but none as store managers and I don't think I remember a single one as department manager either.
There are some reasonable explanations for this, but the real reason is that they were primarily a bunch of morons and Mennonites who just couldn't deal with it.
Later I learned that the one woman on the executive board had been routinely sexually harrassed 20 years earlier. Although it wasn't clear from the story whether it was partly her idea.
Of course, I'm stereotyping all Mennonites with my comments. I'm disrespecting their minority viewpoint and their culture...
Originally posted by FileNotFound
Two wrongs don't make a right.
Hrm ok.
Let's say things at the workplace became equal. What would you say contributed to this sudden change of events?
Originally posted by FileNotFound
WTF is this shit? Assumptionmatic? Are you MsCleo all of a sudden? You can see all the alternate realities?
Didn't say that, just what I felt could possibly happen. I said "chance", IIRC.
By the way, having a black only prize implies that they're inferior to whites and need thier own special little award. Frankly, if I was black, I'd hate that and find it offensive.
That's how YOU feel, which should not indicate how EVERYBODY should feel.
I don't get "special" grades on my English papers due to it being my 3rd language or because I'm Russian. If I did, I'd be pissed.
Doesn't take much to get you pissed anyway so why blame it on special grades. :p
Oh and here's the other group who have their own special awards: http://www.funfreepages.com/prize/
Academic Achievment awards are always given out based on just that. They were in Australia, and they were in the highschool that I went to (Radnor HS), and get this, we had 2 awards go to black kids without any special rule existing. They were just damn smart and worked their asses off. Oh yeah and I was fairly good friends with one of them...he helped me out on a few tests..
Just because all this happened in your world doesn't mean it's happening all over. There are things happening in various schools that you have no idea about! I listen to a local radio station that addresses the issues of black children in school all of the time, so I hear about it constantly.
ladysycamore is a fruitcake in her own little world who thinks everyone owes her something because she black.
She thinks Caucasians don't need any special stuff. I guess she thinks that they're the smartest bunch out there. I'm kinda hurt that she would diss us, but hey, she has the right to he own delusions.
She also has a superiority complex. Since she thinks it, the whole black community thinks it. Hate to tell ya, bitch (since you think that name is empowering), but that's not true.
Originally posted by warch
Awright.
Its standard operating procedure for colleges to give preferential enrollment consideration, favoritism if you will, active recruitment, scholarship opportunities to "Legacies" If mom or dad is an allumi, you get the tip. The vast majority of these, for over 100 + years have been lily white. Tilt.
I remember hearing this a short while ago reading about
this case (or at least I think it was this case). At the time, I had no idea about the "Legacies". I don't hear anyone saying how unfair THAT is.
and another example: My mother, through her ladies circle in a small Illinois town, sits on a society committee that give scholarships to students from that social group/ her community. All recipients are lily white and have been for 100+ years. Tilt.
And you can bet that any changes to that (especially "race"-wise will probably be met with serious reservations.)
White churches, Kwanis, Knights of Columbus, social orders and organizations, established over a great many years in, ecomonically rooted and based on our history of white patrimony and dedicated to the education and advancement of young people from their communities give thousand of scholarships each year. The vast, vast majority are white. Tilt.
Tilt indeed.
Now you are begrudging the scholarships and "special treatment" doled out at Drexel. Well, I would argue that the investment in the education of those students of color,even if some or several drop out and fail, those that succeed not only enrich your experience, at least broaden it, but they will serve to help establish the community-bases, the legacies needed to offer truly equal educational opportunites. And maybe, eventually your the claim of no favors for the white will ring true. But not today.
Well said warch.
:)
And my dear, young feline friend, you have the right to your own delusions, and victim complex as well. You should get out more.
I had no idea about the "Legacies".
I believe this special treatment helped our boy George W. into Yale.
Originally posted by warch
And my dear, young feline friend, you have the right to your own delusions, and victim complex as well. You should get out more.
I do get out. And I'm not a perpetual victim.
Originally posted by FelinesAreFine
ladysycamore is a fruitcake in her own little world who thinks everyone owes her something because she black.
Not at all.
(the hell?!?!) :confused:
She thinks Caucasians don't need any special stuff. I guess she thinks that they're the smartest bunch out there.
LMAO, mm'kay....
I'm kinda hurt that she would diss us, but hey, she has the right to he own delusions.
What fun! :haha: {ScottiefromStarTrek}"She's Brrrrreakin' up Capt'n."{/ScottiefromStarTrek}
She also has a superiority complex. Since she thinks it, the whole black community thinks it.
Talk about delusions...baahahahah! Too much!
Hate to tell ya, bitch (since you think that name is empowering), but that's not true.
Apparently, it's all in your head. Thanks for playing. :D
Also, if you want to cry racism, why don't you focus on the Mormons? They have a mentality that having black skin is a mark of evil and you will never enter one of their 7 (yes, seven) heavens. Marrying a black person would get you excommunicated. Talk about one fucked up religion. (gag) Also, have you noticed that all Mormons are Caucasian? I'll never live in Utah.
Originally posted by FelinesAreFine
ladysycamore is a fruitcake in her own little world who thinks everyone owes her something because she black.
Actually, Lady Sycamore is an intelligent well-read person who does not think everyone owes her something...and yes, she happens to be black.
She thinks Caucasians don't need any special stuff.
Define "special stuff."
She also has a superiority complex. Since she thinks it, the whole black community thinks it. Hate to tell ya, bitch (since you think that name is empowering), but that's not true.
She does not have a superiority complex, and is well-aware that many blacks do not agree with her views.
I would strongly recommend that you not post to the Cellar immediately after huffing in the future.
Originally posted by FelinesAreFine
Also, if you want to cry racism, why don't you focus on the Mormons? They have a mentality that having black skin is a mark of evil and you will never enter one of their 7 (yes, seven) heavens. Marrying a black person would get you excommunicated. Talk about one fucked up religion. (gag) Also, have you noticed that all Mormons are Caucasian? I'll never live in Utah.
Hot Pastrami, where are you? Please confirm this.
(If that is the case, Vai Sikahema is in a lot of trouble.)
I know! I know!
Here is the story about how civil rights came to Brigham Young University...It was for a love of basketball! from this Mormon info site: URL=http://www.algonet.se/~daba/lds/cdc275.htm (Linkie insertie no workie.)
The Church's policy of excluding blacks from the priesthood had stood against all attempts at reform during the civil rights movement. But then things happened to Brigham Young University's basketball program in the 1970s.
During a game at Colorado State University, a Molotov cocktail was tossed onto the court to protest the antiblack LDS tenets. A Stanford University official declared that if the B.Y.U. team ever wanted to play Stanford again, the Mormon Church would have to "reinterpret God's word and establish doctrines compatible with Stanford's policies."
Shortly following this statement, Stanford indeed canceled all scheduled sports events with B.Y.U., not just its basketball games. In fact, the Western Athletic Conference nearly disbanded over the furor.
Additionally, anti-Mormons urged for boycotts of recordings of the Mormon Tabernacle Choir and the cancellation of vacations to Utah. The NAACP initiated several lawsuits against Mormon Boy Scout troops, charging that church policy was foisting racism on minority Scouts. Worst of all, the IRS suggested that the racial policies of the Mormon Church might justify a suspension of its tax-exempt status.
Several professional consulting firms which the church had previously hired for other matters suggested to church leaders that they reconsider the status of blacks in the Mormon Church as part of a major overhaul of church policy.
Finally, on June 9, 1978, the Mormon President Spencer W. Kimball announced to the Saints that he had received a new revelation which ended the ban on blacks in the priesthood. "That same revelation came to his counselors and to the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles in the Temple, and then it was presented to all of the other General Authorities who approved it unanimously," stated Kimball. This revelation is known to Mormons as The Second Great Accomodation.
Originally posted by ladysycamore
And the playing field has ALWAYS been slanted toward whites, so if it is slanted now towards "minorites", why is it such a problem now? I know the answer to that, but I'm curious as to what your answer might be.
IF it was a problem for the playing field to be slanted towards whites (and only CERTAIN whites at that ), then it is a problem to be slanted towards minorities.
It does no good to slant the playing field against today's whites to make up for the fact that the playing field was slanted towards people with vaguely the same skin color as their parents.
Thanks Warch...you're always a good egg.
So, it's pretty much what I figured...this does not occur now. And FAF is again guilty of PWH (Posting While High).
Originally posted by russotto
IF it was a problem for the playing field to be slanted towards whites (and only CERTAIN whites at that ), then it is a problem to be slanted towards minorities.
"Certain" whites? Please explain.
It does no good to slant the playing field against today's whites to make up for the fact that the playing field was slanted towards people with vaguely the same skin color as their parents.
Ok then. What needs to be done to make the playing field equal?
It does no good to slant the playing field against today's whites to make up for the fact that the playing field was slanted towards people with vaguely the same skin color as their parents.
Its not slanted against. The white opportunities still exist, they are the tradition. (how many white college students and grads do we have in the cellar?) What does affirmative action do? Just ask any first generation black college grad, or native american college grad, or latino grad who is the first of their family to achieve that level of education. It bodes well for positive civic contributions of the next generation. And the next.
Originally posted by sycamore
Thanks Warch...you're always a good egg.
Yeah, but she looks like one of them mexicans.:haha:
Originally posted by dar512
Quotas only harm other entrants and continue 'us vs. them' thinking.
There are no quotas per se. Numerical quotas for AA are illegal (1978). So are point systems (2003).
Originally posted by FelinesAreFine
Also, have you noticed that all Mormons are Caucasian? I'll never live in Utah.
HP is in a better position to discuss the LDS than I, but they have a very active missionary program around the world.
Former football player (now sportscaster) Vai Sikahema is a Mormon bishop in the Philadelphia area...he is Tongan, as in Polynesian, as in not Caucasian.
ladysycamore, you are one of the most discriminatory people I've ever met. You are also one of the most racist people I've ever met. Your ideas are far from the norm.
Also, you love to quote people, but have nothing to say that has any substance. You quote whole phrases, sentences and posts just to say a word or two then go on to quote another post from someone else. And then post another back to back! Don't you have any of your own ideas? Your terribly long posts are boring and uninteresting and one tends to pass over them just to read your one single word or two. Please, for the sake of sanity, at least post your own thoughts.
You love to dish it out, but you can't take it in. Same for your alter ego, sycamore.
Sycamore Clan: do you know what I look like? You sure make out like you do. You and I are more kin than you know.
FAF, you are a whiny-ass bitch who has made a claim proven to be false and is now attempting character assassination. I can't help but wonder if maybe you are the racist...at the very least, you're a flamer.
I don't know what you look like and quite frankly, I don't care. Furthermore, I hope to God that we're not kin b/c you would be an embarrassment to me.
Actually, I'm not a racist, because I give everyone a fair chance. I don't believe in giving anyone a head start. By the way you have presented yourself, you have proved to me that you dislike Caucasians because of what happened way before you were ever even thought of. That is racism. You have whined and complained about everyone. Your last post proves even more how much you can't accept anyone countering you. Debate you cannot. I am half black, but I was raised that if you want anything, you must do it for yourself. You have the mentality that everyone owes you something because you are black. That's a real pity, because that condones laziness and stupidity. And that gives the rest of us hard working blacks a bad name. Shame on you! I am not African! I AM AN AMERICAN!
Originally posted by FelinesAreFine
By the way you have presented yourself, you have proved to me that you dislike Caucasians because of what happened way before you were ever even thought of.
Like I care what I've proven to a troll.
Your last post proves even more how much you can't accept anyone countering you. Debate you cannot.
Time for you to do some homework. I've got 3 years and 6500 posts that say otherwise...ask around and go review my posts. You started off well, but then resorted to insults and character assassination, not to mention, you made statements about the Mormons that are blatantly false. You're currently unworthy of a proper debate. Now, if you want to get your act together and properly debate this issue, let me know. I like a good debate.
You have the mentality that everyone owes you something because you are black. That's a real pity, because that condones laziness and stupidity. And that gives the rest of us hard working blacks a bad name. Shame on you!
I'm Native American (as in Cherokee) and Caucasian.
Silly you!
Just because you posted so many times on this site gives you the authority to bully people around? What kind of logic is that? You obviously think Caucasians AND blacks are stupid because you keep quoting me when I already know what I've said. You needn't quote me to talk to me. Redundant, wouldn't you say? All of that could have been said without quoting.
Admit it. You hate me because I'm half white. And because I debate you. And you must hate blacks, too, because you got even more fired up when I said I was half black.
Oh, and I'm native American, too. I was born here.
You started off horribly. You told me in your first post ever to me to not post a welcome message unless I posted to other people 10 times. Without so much as a "Hi! am sycamore and thank you for coming." And yes it was another quote. It was not a warm welcome. It was cold and lifeless.
Originally posted by FelinesAreFine
Just because you posted so many times on this site gives you the authority to bully people around? What kind of logic is that?
You stated that I can't accept people countering me and that I cannot debate. I pointed out that my 3 years and 6500 posts would prove you wrong. Not to mention, plenty of Cellarites would also say you're wrong.
I have no authority on the Cellar, other than my own forum. However, we do practice self-policing around here. You just joined 4 days ago, and have already resorted to insulting people and making false statements...keep that up and you'll either be ignored, not taken seriously or called out on it.
You obviously think Caucasians AND blacks are stupid because you keep quoting me when I already know what I've said. You needn't quote me to talk to me. Redundant, wouldn't you say? All of that could have been said without quoting.
Many people on the Cellar use the quote function to reply to particular parts of a person's post, as I am doing now with your last post here. I don't find it redundant at all, as I think it helps posts make more sense and flow better.
You started off horribly. You told me in your first post ever to me to not post a welcome message unless I posted to other people 10 times. Without so much as a "Hi! am sycamore and thank you for coming." And yes it was another quote. It was not a warm welcome. It was cold and lifeless.
What was the last line of my reply to your first post? Do you remember? Let me refresh your memory:
Originally posted by sycamore 1/27/2004
Nothing against you personally, FAF...welcome.
For the most part, it was a joke. Besides...I don't have the power to create that kind of rule, and I don't know if the vBulletin software can even be set up like that. I'm sorry if you didn't get the joke, but if you chose to take it personally, that's your problem.
Like I said, if you want to get your act together and debate AA, I'm all for it. But if you want to keep insulting folks and making ridiculous statements, then piss off.
Originally posted by FelinesAreFine
You love to dish it out, but you can't take it in. Same for your alter ego, sycamore.
No alter ego involved...we're two different people. At least half a dozen Cellarites can verify that, as they've met us in person.
Let's look at AA from another perspective...
Everyone is aware that women are also covered under AA, right? So the playing field is "slanted" for them, too. (And FAF said there was nothing for Caucasians...pshaw!) From what I've seen and read, women encounter many of the same obstacles that minorities do. And keep in mind that there are almost 5 million more women in this country than men (2000 US Census).
Those of you opposed to AA, how do you feel about this? Should women-only colleges, high schools and scholarships be eliminated? Should "gender pride" go?
Also, have some of you out there been discriminated against because of your gender?
Discuss.
By "certain whites", I mean that some of those now considered whites were ALSO historically discriminated against.
If you want a level playing field, step one is to stop distorting it.
Originally posted by warch
Its not slanted against. The white opportunities still exist, they are the tradition. (how many white college students and grads do we have in the cellar?)
It's a bias, not a bar. It results in an edge effect. Sure, still lots of opportunity for white people. But, all other things being equal, the white guy who gets 950 on his SATs and a 2.6 average might lose out to the black guy who gets 900 and 2.3 respectively. On the financial side, the black guy might have access to all sorts of scholarships the white guy does not.
Occasionally it does get more blatant, as when companies and/or agencies are ordered to hire ONLY black people or lay off ONLY white people. But usually it's an edge effect.
On the financial side, the black guy might have access to all sorts of scholarships the white guy does not.
I still see it as a wash, cause the white guy
might have access to all sorts of scholarships the black guy does not.
The bias underlies a tradition of bars that still live. The arguement is really whether or not we've reached a level. In terms of color, dont think so, yet. Its so economically/educationally tied. And AA is just one aid. Hopefully someday though.
I actually do think so in terms of overall populations of women. AA has worked well. I think I read that more women graduate college than men these days. With the help of stuff like title 9, girls are kicking academic and actual butt in HS too. Some careers maybe underrepresented, but perhaps not for long or not because there are continued bars to access.
I have run into a tiny bit of gender, patronizing crap on the job, mostly when I was younger from older men and women. Eh. Nothing lately. There are the ongoing cultural time warp shits, like "why dont you have kids?", being a target of male attack walking at night, "dont be such a bitch" when you are simply stating an assertive request... geeze!
Originally posted by russotto
By "certain whites", I mean that some of those now considered whites were ALSO historically discriminated against.
If you want a level playing field, step one is to stop distorting it.
And how does society go about doing this?
Originally posted by ladysycamore
While I agree, I again find it ironic that after 8 years, someone [b]NOW has a problem with the award:
[/b]
[color=indigo] I've had a problem with things like this every time I've seen it. This is just ONE example that actually made it to the news that I managed to catch.[/color]
"The award has been given the last eight years to an outstanding black student as part of the school's Martin Luther King Jr. Day celebration."
[color=indigo] So do they have a "Jesse Helms Award" that white kids exclusively can win? Can you imagine the outcry if they did?[/color]
So I'd say that the white student doesn't qualify based on the fact that the award is meant for a "black" student. Plus, since many people are so bent on dictionary definitions:
Main Entry: Af·ro-Amer·i·can
Pronunciation: "a-frO-&-'mer-&-k&n
Function: noun
: an American of African and especially of black African descent
- Afro-American adjective
*When you look up "African-American", it directs you to "Afro-American".*
My focus is the "especially of black African descent", because society (for the most part) knowns and understands that Af/American means "black".
Many may not agree with that, but I have yet to hear of a white OR black African who is now an American citizen call themselves "African-American". They normally identify themselves by culture or ethnicity.
It also seems to me that no one didn't have [b]THAT much to say about the term "African-American" in the beginning, but for some reason NOW it causes certain people to have meltdowns galore! [/b]
[color=indigo] Oh Come ON, Rho!! Blacks in America started telling everyone that "I prefer the term African-American, thank you." It became Politically Incorrect to call black folk "black". In fact, I personally witnessed a mexican get beat down because he REFUSED to call a black person "African American". American Blacks wanted to "maintain their cultural identity", and so took the hyphenated name. Then all the rest of the minorites took up the call and decided to hyphenate. Mexican-American, Chinese-American, Japanese-American.
And then, as now, it caused this same argument. We're ALL American, and I've held that view then, as I do now.
[/color]
If people want to be known as just "Americans" then everyone needs to be treated like one.
[color=indigo]I completely agree!! And I think that, again, going back to the post, is that blacks pushed so hard to be "African-American", that now the term is equated with blacks, but now we see a case where a person from Africa, a real "African-American", was denied an award because of his race.
My point here, boiled down to the bottom line is that the IDEA of giving an award to ONLY blacks is racist, whatever you call it, or whatever day you give it on.
If it's for "African-Americans," then the white kid should have been included as a selectee. If it's for black kids only, then call it for what it is: the "Black Kids Only" award. (Which makes my daughter ineligible, cuz she's part white.)
THAT is the problem I have with it. Using your quote of the article as an example,
"The award has been given the last eight years to an outstanding black student as part of the school's Martin Luther King Jr. Day celebration." that is racist. Bottom line. Shame on that school.[/color]
Originally posted by FelinesAreFine
Also, if you want to cry racism, why don't you focus on the Mormons? They have a mentality that having black skin is a mark of evil and you will never enter one of their 7 (yes, seven) heavens. Marrying a black person would get you excommunicated. Talk about one fucked up religion. (gag) Also, have you noticed that all Mormons are Caucasian? I'll never live in Utah.
[color=indigo]
There are only 3 levels of heaven, in order,
Terrestrial (kinda half heaven, you don't get to hang with Jesus or God, but you aren't in hell.),
Telestial (you get to hang with Jesus but not God), and
Celestial (you get to hang with God).
And I can post pictures of one the Mormon Elders that completed his initiation into our ward by riding down my apt stairs in my kid's toy box. He happens to be very black in color.
Be sure of your facts before you post.
[/color]
"(insert ethnic background here)-American" was around for quite some time before "African-American."
Originally posted by sycamore
"(insert ethnic background here)-American" was around for quite some time before "African-American."
[COLOR=indigo]Agreed. But most didn't start INSISTING they be called that instead of black. In fact, Malcom X, before he was assassinated, created the Organization for Afro-American Unity. So hyphenated names have been around for a long long time. It was only relatively recently that you had to use that or be considered insensitive to their culture. (PC)[/COLOR]
People say that my roommate "doesn't act black enough". As if his personal taste in music and his speech patterns should be somehow genetically pre-determined.
The line seems pretty clear to me:
skin pigment: nature
culture: nurture
I've even heard people say that Brian doesn't act enough like "his people", as if they get to decide who "his people" are. I'm "his people". His friends are "his people", and our basically geeky, sci-fi and anime watching, roleplaying culture is "his culture". True, he didn't choose us based on skin pigment or eye color or left handedness or some other arbitrary genetic link, but I think he's chosen well.
I'm not sure what about this thread got me thinking about that.
I'm going to reiterate this point so that you folks might have another chance to recognize its brilliance.
In every case I've seen where someone possessed discriminatory thinking and had a change of heart, that change of heart came about after getting to know the people they were discriminating against. <i>Every case</i>. I can only guess that they realize we're not all that different after seeing their commonalities.
This fact could easily be exploited to reduce discriminatory thinking.
But the whole idea of the WB network seems to have backfired, juju ... perhaps if the programming didn't suck, we could learn to all just get along.
Originally posted by OnyxCougar
Oh Come ON, Rho!! Blacks in America started telling everyone that "I prefer the term African-American, thank you." It became Politically Incorrect to call black folk "black". In fact, I personally witnessed a mexican get beat down because he REFUSED to call a black person "African American".
Well goddamnit then, that particular black person was incredibly stupid, now weren't they? I'd like to know how that one incident have anything to do with me or any other black person that doesn't make others call us Af/American...
American Blacks wanted to "maintain their cultural identity", and so took the hyphenated name. Then all the rest of the minorites took up the call and decided to hyphenate. Mexican-American, Chinese-American, Japanese-American.
Hyphenation is not new. I'll let Sycamore explain in a later posting.
I completely agree!! And I think that, again, going back to the post, is that blacks pushed so hard to be "African-American", that now the term is equated with blacks, but now we see a case where a person from Africa, a real "African-American", was denied an award because of his race.
Hrm...when he was in his homeland, he was known as something else, but once coming here, he's more than happy to be Af/American...interesting. Wonder when he decided to be that...when he left Africa? When he arrived? When some kids decided to put his face on a poster for an award?
My point here, boiled down to the bottom line is that the IDEA of giving an award to ONLY blacks is racist, whatever you call it, or whatever day you give it on.
Ok, let's say that suddenly all that is put to rest. No more special awards. In fact, just no more awards..everyone is good and special. How does that addresses the issue of racism? I keep hearing "take away this and that" but let's say you do that, the problem still remains and I don't hear anything about resolving THAT.
If it's for "African-Americans," then the white kid should have been included as a selectee. If it's for black kids only, then call it for what it is: the "Black Kids Only" award. (Which makes my daughter ineligible, cuz she's part white.)
THAT is the problem I have with it. Using your quote of the article as an example, "The award has been given the last eight years to an outstanding black student as part of the school's Martin Luther King Jr. Day celebration." that is racist. Bottom line. Shame on that school.
Apparently, the community didn't have a problem until now, so they must have thought it was ok.
Originally posted by OnyxCougar
But most didn't start INSISTING they be called that instead of black. In fact, Malcom X, before he was assassinated, created the Organization for Afro-American Unity. So hyphenated names have been around for a long long time. It was only relatively recently that you had to use that or be considered insensitive to their culture. (PC)
Who says that most insist on being called "African-American"?
Yes, some will be offended if they are not referred to by that term, but based on the literature out there (including that of organizations like the NAACP), it would seem that "black" is still OK to use.
(Rho's stance is as follows: "As long as you don't call me nigger")
Besides, the usage of words changes over time. Would you call a black person a "colored" or a "Negro" today? I suspect not. Maybe one day, white folks will become incredibly offended when the term "white" is used to describe them.
And think about why some folks might prefer the term "African-American" to "black." Think about all the connotations that can come from the words "black" and "white." I can't say I blame any black folk that want to use the term "African-American."
Of course, who the fuck cares what they call themselves anyway...
Originally posted by ladysycamore
Hyphenation is not new. I'll let Sycamore explain in a later posting.
Some Latinos in the southwestern US referred to themselves as "Spanish-Americans" in the early part of the 20th century, even if they didn't have a drop of Spanish blood in them...because they were ashamed of being Mexican.
Originally posted by ladysycamore
Apparently, the community didn't have a problem until now, so they must have thought it was ok.
Careful Rho, your stereotyping. You have no idea what he was or what he was called in Africa.
Apparently, the community didn't have a problem until now, so they must have thought it was ok.
Not necessarily. They might not have liked it or thought it was stupid by not wanting to be deemed politically incorrect kept quiet, like so many do today. It was the kids that found a loophole in the rules to say the emperor had no clothes.
Actually we have no way of knowing if these kids were just acting on a technicality as a joke or really wanted to make a statement against what they thought was a bad idea.
Everyone will interpret it to align with there own feelings.
I personally think it was a joke...I don't think any malice was intended. (It sounds like something I would have done in high school.) But why suspend them for it? It could wind up leaving a bitter taste in some folk's mouths.
Originally posted by xoxoxoBruce
Not necessarily. They might not have liked it or thought it was stupid by not wanting to be deemed politically incorrect kept quiet, like so many do today.
True, but:
--We don't know the background of this community.
--Silence is golden.
Originally posted by sycamore
True, but:
--We don't know the background of this community.
--Silence is golden.
This community has the same problem as every community in the nation. Fear of being judged politically Incorrect. Some places have a larger contingent of outspoken people but the community as a whole, suffers like the rest.
Silence isn't golden when it's caused by a gag. I truly believe this PC bullshit is the biggest gag this country has seen since we stopped burning witches. Happily it doesn't extend to the Cellar.:D
"The white man and the black man have to be able to sit down at the same table. The white man has to feel free to speak his mind without hurting the feelings of that Negro. And the so-called Negro has to feel free to speak his mind without hurting the feelings of the white man. Then they can bring the issues that are under the rug out on top of the table and take an intelligent approach to solving the problem."
--Malcolm X, 1964
Right on, Malcom! I wish more people would take that to heart and stop being so damned PC. If they're afraid to say it to your face, they'll say it behind your back, and that does nobody any good.:beer:
Originally posted by xoxoxoBruce
Careful Rho, your stereotyping. You have no idea what he was or what he was called in Africa.
I'd be willing to bet that it wasn't anything with a hyphen.