The Pussification of the Western Male

Comments, please.

The Pussification of the Western Male

(Yes, I picked it up from blog references. You're developing bad habits in me UT!!)

Mostly wrong, mostly harmless.

Well...there went 20 minutes of my life that I'll never get back.

[COLOR=indigo]Didn't open.[/COLOR]

I couldn't open it either?:(

The link currently doesn't work...apparently the demand for the essay killed his webhost's server. You can access it directly from the main page of his site.

well, you're not going to believe this, but my cock grew an inch after I read that article...I feel SO manly now! Excuse me, I have to go beat my wife now. I may even stop by my mom's house and kick her ass for a while too. goddamn single mother!

[COLOR=indigo]Well, I read it, and I think he does have a few valid points.

I orginally thought the word to describe the piece was chauvanistic, but according to Wester's online, that means feeling that one gender is superior over the other, and I'm not sure that's what he's saying. I think Kim is saying that the sexes are DIFFERENT, and that's the way he thinks it should be.

One of the statements I disagree with is:

What I care about is the fact that since the beginning of the twentieth century, there has been a concerted campaign to denigrate men, to reduce them to figures of fun, and to render them impotent, figuratively speaking.

Please. Just because women wanted to be treated equally in the workplace and in politics and in education doesn't mean women are out to emasculate men. Statements like the above quote take away from the valid points in his diatribe and leave a foul taste for the rest of the piece.

**giggle at lumberjim**

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I don't think it's the role of men themselves that has changed, I think it's the "male image," and society's perception which has been altered. I'll betcha the macho-guy-to-pansies ratio is pretty much the same now as it has ever been, it's just that now, society accepts men who aren't macho. Basically, back in the "good old days," most men pretended to be macho to be accepted, but nowadays such men are being themselves.

At any rate, who is this guy to stand up for male sterotypes? If he wants to defend his own manliness, that's fine, but I've got mine covered, thanks. I have my sports car, and my guns, my punching bag, and my big loud stereo... and I wouldn't have married the woman I did if she wanted to change me.

Being a "pussy" as he describes it is a self-caused phenomenon, and such men have no one to blame but themselves. It's like a fat man yelling at the McDonalds order box, his jowls flapping wildly, that he's tired of being obese, and he's not going to take it anymore! Then may I suggest that you reduce your order of fries from Super-size to just Chest-Pains? It's a good start. You dug the grave, so lie down in it, or pull your own ass out.

So, when I met Case a few years back, I was very much the sensitive type. Listened to a lot of Sarah McLachlan, Tori Amos, etc. I wore, not the nicest clothes, but I did care about my image. I was the kind of guy the girls wanted to "be friends" with, and more than one simply assumed I was just, well, gay. I was exactly the kind of guy the writer would have thought of as "pussified".

I met Casey, we became "just friends", and long story short, we fell in love and got married. And thats when things started to change for me. I began trying to be macho, trying to be the typical protector / male / bible belt stereotype husband. Mostly, I think, because it was expected of me. My father actually told me shortly after my marriage that I was now the man of the house, and there are things my bride will expect of me. I don't blame him, but I bought into it.

Point is, Casey didn't change me. I changed me. And guess what? She didn't like it. But being the sensitive type, she really didn't say anything for fear of hurting me. So this went on for a few years until I got to a point where I was pretty much an asshole to people. I was impatient, intolerant, arrogant and basically everything your machoman stereotype conjures.

And Casey snapped. Just about the same time I started to realise that I didn't like who I had become. We spent a great deal of time talking about it, and still do. I realised that I could very well lose her if I continued down the path I had started.

So, I guess I'm a recovering machoman. Call me a pussy if you want. But at the end of the day I am what I am, and I thank my lucky stars Casey fell in love with what I am.

And just in case it is offtopic: Yeah, I agree with Pastrami.

" So, I guess I'm a recovering machoman. Call me a pussy if you want. But at the end of the day I am what I am, and I thank my lucky stars Casey fell in love with what I am."
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pussy

c'mon, you knew I'd do it!

but seriously, folks

you don't have to be rude to be macho. Macho means you have confidence in your manliness. Your not ashamed to scratch in public. You don't deny the animal within.

*grunts*

"I am not a "macho man", but I play one in the bedroom"

Don't worry, perth. you're smart enough, and you're strong enough, and dammit, that's okay.

sincerely,

Stuart Smally

Originally posted by lumberjim
" So, I guess I'm a recovering machoman. Call me a pussy if you want. But at the end of the day I am what I am, and I thank my lucky stars Casey fell in love with what I am."
____________________________________________

pussy

asshole. :)

Originally posted by perth

asshole. :)

you have no idea:D

please don't take that personally, perth. I have a very weak resistance for that kind of thing....I know it's obvious and immature, but, hey...I AM a man.

Oh, by the way, are you wearing a pastel colored sweater right now?

Oh I don't take it personally at all. Don't worry about it. Obvious and immature describe all my favourite jokes. :)

[COLOR=indigo]
Webster online
Macho: (adj) characterized by Machismo. (noun) one who exhibits machismo.

Machismo= 1 : a strong sense of masculine pride : an exaggerated masculinity

Feminism: 1 : the theory of the political, economic, and social equality of the sexes
2 : organized activity on behalf of women's rights and interests


So, a man is macho if he has pride in masculinity, but if a woman is a feminist, she is seeking equality. So what is a woman who has pride in her femininity?
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So, a man is macho if he has pride in masculinity, but if a woman is a feminist, she is seeking equality. So what is a woman who has pride in her femininity?
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a lesbian!

Whats wrong is that we have let the PC gestapo get away with it for too long.Can't smoke in bars.you have to be a New age man.
Fuckin' bollocks Men And women are Different our genes are different,our thought processes are not the same we have evolved to do different jobs.thats how we have not become extinct yet.But we will if we let them get away with it any longer.
I'm sorry but I don't want to make friends with my female side .
Its time to just say no.enough is enough.

By the way my wife say's I can reply to this Thread.(This Time)..

Perth, I'm your counterpoint. You described me pretty well with "I was impatient, intolerant, arrogant and basically everything your machoman stereotype conjures."
As I got older (matured) and wiser (209 on the hell test) I didn't like me, so I evolved. My ex went out and found the type I had been, but that's OK. I like me better now. I can't go back.:)
As for the article, he makes some good points but blows his credibility all to hell with some outrageous claims.

Darn you Lumberjim!!! You made milk come out of my nose! I haven't drunk any milk in a year! :p

Originally posted by OnyxCougar
[COLOR=indigo]
Webster online
Macho: (adj) characterized by Machismo. (noun) one who exhibits machismo.

Machismo= 1 : a strong sense of masculine pride : an exaggerated masculinity

Feminism: 1 : the theory of the political, economic, and social equality of the sexes
2 : organized activity on behalf of women's rights and interests


So, a man is macho if he has pride in masculinity, but if a woman is a feminist, she is seeking equality. So what is a woman who has pride in her femininity?
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The word is muliebrity.:D

Webster's online

Main Entry: mu·li·eb·ri·ty
Pronunciation: "myü-lE-'e-br&-tE
Function: noun
Etymology: Late Latin muliebritat-, muliebritas, from Latin muliebris of a woman, from mulier woman
Date: 1592
: FEMININITY

[color=indigo]
...... nuh uh!!!
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Originally posted by Uryoces
Darn you Lumberjim!!! You made milk come out of my nose! I haven't drunk any milk in a year! :p

you sure that's milk?

cougar,
the opposite of macho isn't feminist......feminist has political overtones. macho doesn't.

i think you were thinking of "Womanly":


wom·an·ly Audio pronunciation of womanly ( P ) Pronunciation Key (wmn-l)
adj. wom·an·li·er, wom·an·li·est

1. Having qualities generally attributed to a woman.
2. Belonging to or representative of a woman; feminine: womanly attire. See Synonyms at female.

[COLOR=indigo]Nicely done. So Macho and Womanly. Any commentary about the way society perceives those words?

To me, "macho" brings to mind a picture of the swaggering white guy (perhaps italian) with the "I can crush a beer can on my skull, I'm so cool" mentality...the kind that wears leisure suits and struts down the road to Bee Gee's music.

Womanly to me, suggests the matronish type of personality, baking cookies and home when you get home from school type, wearing an apron and keeping a tidy house.

So, 70's on the macho thing, 50's on the womanly thing. [/COLOR]

Originally posted by OnyxCougar
[COLOR=indigo]Nicely done. So Macho and Womanly. Any commentary about the way society perceives those words?

To me, "macho" brings to mind a picture of the swaggering white guy (perhaps italian) with the "I can crush a beer can on my skull, I'm so cool" mentality...the kind that wears leisure suits and struts down the road to Bee Gee's music.

Womanly to me, suggests the matronish type of personality, baking cookies and home when you get home from school type, wearing an apron and keeping a tidy house.

So, 70's on the macho thing, 50's on the womanly thing. [/COLOR]

I guess that's subjective, hey? I see womanly as a lady who is very curvy, has long hair, smells good and wiggles when she walks.....like you, cougar.....

Macho, to me, is pretty close to the first half of your description...although, usually having a goatee and wearing a leather vest, not a leisure suit....

these are just physical manifestaitions, though.

perth could be macho in his sweater....who can say?

I meet a lot of different people in my line of work, and I'll tell you, most of the physically macho looking guys are the biggest mama's boys.

macho is a state of mind. womanly is a state of mind.

[COLOR=indigo]Oh, I completely agree! Everything is subjective.

And the curvy, long hair woman type is womanly, as well. I'm wondering if you're focusing on the physical manifestations because you're a guy and I'm focusing on the more matronly maifestation because I'm a girl or what the deal is with that. Possibly a "Mars/Venus" type of hardwiring making us generalize along those lines?
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yeah, "macho" to a woman has negative connotations.

"macho" to a man is a compliment.

I think the author of that article is struggling with the admission that women are the stronger sex. He has confused physical machoism and crudity with strength. As I see it, Perth may be among the stronger of men because he has the knuts to admit who he is and the self awareness to change back when he recognized a problem coming from acting in a way that was counter to what got him where he was. ( so what if he's wearing a powder blue cardigan)

Women don't seem to have that problem very often. That's why I say they are stronger. Why are women stronger than men?

I have my opinions; among them: they have to put up with our shit, give birth, endure being repressed since the beginning of time, blah, blah, blah.

Boy, am I glad I'm a man.

Muliebrity:
1- The state of being a woman; womanhood.
2- The qualities of a woman; femininity.
From the English noun mule, stubborn. :p

I don't yet have time to catch up on all this, but the title of the article is from a George Carlin bit.

I think the guy is all confused but he does make some points that I agree with and I'll throw in a few of my own:

That the pussification of European men is complete - can there be ANY doubt about this? :)

While his thesis is that women seek to emasculate men, he goes on to say how Rummy could get laid anywhere, anytime, anyplace and I figure he's probably right. Same can be said for quite a few manly men. I think there is a discord in there somewhere but its hard to pin down. In other words, if that many women (90% I think he said) like manly men, than which women is it that are trying to outfit men with skirts? [/sound of head scratching]

I think it boils down to the fact that some (of each sex) want the other sex to be less different. I do not believe the ratio is all that different than it ever was (e.g., Y% of women like sissy, new-age, breast-feeding men and X% of men like women who aren't overly feminine).

What I think is going on is that society has blown off all the stereotypical roles so its open season on what men and women are supposed to be. A clean slate. And the Y% of women who, for whatever reason like Queer Eye guys, have just taken over. The women who like(d) men in their natural state haven't spoken up so it's a case of a vocal (and powerful in terms of the mass media) minority yielding the appearance of a grass roots movement.

But, that's just one idiot's opinion.

My ol buddy Tom nails it to the wall:

What really fascinates me in all this though is the unmentioned elephant in the microwave, the unnoted moose in the bread box, the politely ignored poodle in the soup. This masculinist manifesto was written by a guy with a name out of a Itaewon drag bar. It's an even money bet that some 38th parallel sistermister in a homemade slit dress has already done more to push the name Kim du Toit towards immortality than the Chicago pants-wearer ever will.

Mr. du Toit has a better reason than most to feel that American masculinity is under constant siege.

This has been hanging around my desk for years. I don't remember what I cut it out of.:)

      This guy strikes me as a pussy that needs props, like guns and cars, to feel manly. Screw that. Being a man isn't about scratching yourself or screwing your secratary. Being gentle isn't about being weak. This guy's got so much out of whack it's insane.
      Another thing, "some women deserve to be single mom's?" WTF? Obviously being a parent is a bad thing. Also, yeah men are more 'sensitive' and that's because we're a generation raised by single moms. You want men to be more manly? Fine then, be a real man and raise your own kids. Not only do I have a boy that's going to be one hell of a man, I have a six year old girl with a wicked right cross. I even had to buy her gloves so she wouldn't mark up my face when working her strikes. (Yes I teach her to punch to the face)
      One more thing, women getting stronger doesn't make men weaker. It just means we have to earn the right to be in charge, it's no longer given to us because of our gender.

Originally posted by Whit
; One more thing, women getting stronger doesn't make men weaker. It just means we have to earn the right to be in charge, it's no longer given to us because of our gender.

[SIZE=4]oh yeah!...what HE said![/SIZE]

Originally posted by Whit
            Another thing, "some women deserve to be single mom's?" WTF? Obviously being a parent is a bad thing. Also, yeah men are more 'sensitive' and that's because we're a generation raised by single moms. You want men to be more manly? Fine then, be a real man and raise your own kids. Not only do I have a boy that's going to be one hell of a man, I have a six year old girl with a wicked right cross. I even had to buy her gloves so she wouldn't mark up my face when working her strikes. (Yes I teach her to punch to the face)
     

I think you reading too much into his statement. He didn't say anything about the kids. It's true that some women don't deserve to be married just as there are some men that don't deserve a wife. People that can't function in a relationship. There's a lot of divorced people that earned it.
I don't think staying together for the sake of the kids is usually a good idea any more than having a baby will *fix* a bad marriage.
The daily friction can't be good for kids. Living apart doesn't mean that both parents can't nurture the kids separately and having them come out better in the end as long as neither uses the kids as a weapon.:)

[COLOR=indigo]Which is exactly why I left my second husband. We can't live together, and the stress and hostility that were present in our lives was getting to much for all of us.

I had to make a decision: Stay with this man that drove me crazy and vice versa for the sake of the kids and a single family unit, and teach them to stay in a bad place where they were miserable, or Leave, break us up into 2 units, but ultimately be happier without the stress and fights and teach them that sometimes it's better to go seperate ways than to be miserable.

I chose the latter. And it hasn't been easy for any of us, but I think it was the right decision. Hopefully I can also teach them thru my mistakes that choosing the right partner is the first step and essential in raising a happy family unit that stays together.

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      Actually Bruce, I was just being pissy about the fact that in his assessment not only would the woman get the kids, but she deserves the problems of it. Your right that he doesn't mention the kids. That was my point. This is the kind of thinking that allows abusive, jobless-by-decisions mom's to keep the kids when Dad is a decent guy that would never harm the kids. (this is a reference to a case where I testified to seeing the bruises on the kids) This is also the thinking that leads to the exact problem he speaks of, since the kids grow up without male influence. He's the cause of the problems he's bitching about, not the solution.

Edit: Loved the comic, by the way.

One of the Rock stars, might be the Motor City Madman but I don't remember, bought a farm for his kids to live. He and his wife alternate visiting the kids on *their* farm. No uprooting or shuttling makes the kids more secure. Sounds good to me. :)