Please excuse my emotional distance this week
My divorce is back on.
:(
That really sucks man...we're here for you.
i feel for ya man. mine was finallized 2 weeks ago...
No wonder you're losing weight, that would kill anybody's appetite. Don't hesitate to call on Help 'R Us. I'm as serious as a heart attack, man. You've got a tremendous support group here if you need it. Or when you need it. :(
OK, here's the short list of things I need:
- A place to live
- A way to make money
- Personal fulfillment
- Human contact
I have not had #2, 3, or 4 for some time now so I may be able to go without for a while longer.
Naw, I swear I'm not trying to be an asshole. I'ma be ok in the long run, I always am.
I was laid off once; I spent the rest of the day grinning. Fuck them if they don't want me around. They'll regret it because I am awesome.
This can't be harder than the slow-burn failure of my business. What eases the strain relief here is that we almost managed to agree to divorce about a year ago but it didn't "take". This time it will definitely "take".
What I really need is time. The worst aspect of this one is that it's thrust upon me. She basically said Thank you for telling me about how you're excited about your third act of your life. I've been writing a third act too, except that it doesn't have you as a character. !!!!!
Hopefully it will work out for the best, man. But you've got 11 years invested in it...just be realistic.
I can't help you with 1, but I can help you with 2 and 4. 3 can only be handled by you though.
My divorce, although nearly ten years behind me now, is still the single biggest twinge I get when I think back over my life, even though I am vastly better off now than I was then, and in all areas possible.
I learned a lot of lessons back then...let me share them:
1. Never drink alone...it depresses you, and you hardly ever get laid. Drink conservatively, drink responsibly, and always drink with others, preferably single women.
2. Always remember that it takes two to tango. Therefore, whenever you feel like you've failed at your relationship, remember that the crazy bitch you were married to failed also.
3. Albums that are perfect while going through a divorce: Guns n' Roses' "G 'n R Lies", featuring " I Used to Love Her"; John Hiatt's "Ridin' With the King", featuring "I Say It With Flowers" (and, if there's a shadowy male correspondant mucking up the works, the song "She Loves the Jerk"), and Harry Nillsson's "Son of Schmillson", featuring "You're Breakin' My Heart."
4. Albums that are bad while going through a divorce - Anything by Air Supply, Barry Manilow or The Captain and Tennille. Come to think of it, those are just bad, period, anytime.
5. And the one truly serious piece of advice I have to offer, besides the responsible drinking part of #1...always, always, always keep the phone number of a friend handy, and always, always, always remember to use it when you are really feeling down. My friends probably literally saved my life a couple of times when my 13-year marriage was exploding and my kid was paralyzed in the hospital at the same time.
I wish you all the best, UT, and I know you'll come out alright on the other side.
Originally posted by Elspode
4. Albums that are bad while going through a divorce - Anything by Air Supply, Barry Manilow or The Captain and Tennille. Come to think of it, those are just bad, period, anytime.
Watch it on Barry Manilow...though you might want to add Carole King to the first part.
Last week an ex girlfriend gave me a CD she had burned for my birthday but don't tel the RIAA. As I listened to it and reflected on our failed relationship, I realized that's what music is about. Most popular music is about facets of the human condition, usually relationships with family, friends and lovers. When your relationships are good the music reinforces that. But when they're bad it reinforces that also. Avoid music especially Country & Western. ;)
I don't drink at all, actually. I do smoke a little weed on occasion for relaxation purposes, but it seems quite pointless right about now, I don't believe it would help any.
This was sudden - the earlier weight loss has nothing to do with it, but I haven't eaten much today.
Jesus! I mean, what the fuck am I gonna do? Jesus Fucking Christ on a Fucking Saltine!!!!!! Aughghh!
Hey! Does anyone want to live with me in an awesome house in Oaks? Very high speed unlimited Internet access, two dogs, cold pizza, 32" TV, your own two rooms, $800 rent? Anyone? I promise to be more emotionally stable soon.
Totally wish I could take you up on that offer dude ... 32" TV AND two dogs!!!
Sorry about what's going on. Hope it all resolves well.
...and TiVo, and cable, and central air, and a garage, and a deck. All the stuff needed for a great life except for, you know, the companion to which you can form a lasting emotional bond.
(I'll get better soon, this is the worst of it)
We've been talking about going to AC for a while now, UT...let's do it man...next weekend.
You, Sir, have a deal! Good call. Thanks!
I'd take you up on it if we weren't stationed in NoVA pretty permanently.
Don't forget about how we could set up our guitar and bass stuff next to each other and spontaneously jam. The King of Prussia SAIC office is 10 minutes away as are the retail outfits in the malls that Jenni could manage. Plus you could run your servers out of your residence. Think about it.
Watch out you guys, by Christmas he'll be hooked up with some awesome supermodel that owns a casino and you'll be out on your butts.;)
It looks like this life/thread is already turning around. Take care of yourself man and look for the opportunity in the debris. It's always there somewhere.
[COLOR=indigo]One more reason we need to start planning the next GTG.[/COLOR]
My tips from experience:
Don't look past today - don't think about the future. No one likes uncertainty so why dwell on it.
Don't take it personally - no one is perfect so its not helpful to think its happening because of something you did. Doing those same things in another context could be fine - its not you or someone else - its the relationship.
Look at the bright side - it ain't working so you'll be better off. But, for reasons I cannot guess, shedding one's self of a bad relationship hurts more than being in one. Just a curse of the human condition, I suppose. Sort of like a bad wisdom tooth - it hurts but yanking it out hurts more but that pain stops in a couple days and no one doubts that you are better off.
Hug your dog. We could learn a lot from a dog.
Tomorrow it won't hurt as bad. And the next day and the next. Don't look ahead, and don't fight it - let it flow through. Best to face it now 'cause undealt with emotions are probably the biggest cause of unhappiness I can think of. Just face it and get it over with - denial seems, on the surface, to be an act of strength but its really not (cowardice is too strong a word).
If anything in here seems to look like I'm characterizing you - its not - - these are the general ramblings of someone who has had to deal with this crap in the past and who is 50 times better off now. Hopefully, you will too.
Good luck! [Urge to attach dumb, patronizing smiley successfully resisted]
Originally posted by xoxoxoBruce
Watch out you guys, by Christmas he'll be hooked up with some awesome supermodel that owns a casino and you'll be out on your butts.;)
Supermodel[size=4]S[/size], Bruce....he has 2 rooms available :)
Thanks B. I think that first tip will be invaluable to me. I hadn't thought about it in those terms. You are really onto something. The future could be anything; all I have to do is think that it will be better, and do what I have to do, and let it arrive.
She actually insists that I get the dogs. This is not for their benefit, but theirs; she knows they will live a better life with me than with her. She leaves at 8 and comes home at 9.
*sigh*
I always knew that if she found herself on solid ground, with self esteem and a belief in herself, that it might mean she'd decide I was expendable. But I still tried to help her reach that solid ground. If I wanted to control her, I would have subtlely undermined her, so that she would have come to rely on me more. (I've seen that happen in, well, MOST relationships...)
So when I think about it that way, she is my greatest achievement in life; I took a struggling, confused 22-year-old and helped her to grow into a brilliant, independent 37-year-old. (Along the way I took myself from a brilliant, independent 24-year-old to a struggling, confused 39-year-old.)
In return, she is basically giving me the house.
That is the bottom line of our lives together.
I'm glad Pearl and Bean are there to help on this ride. Sometime the most appropriate response is a face lick. If I can help, you know,... you know.
You are definitely welcome to help the dogs lick my face! (*blush*)
This is where my lack of life experience kicks me in the ass. But there are a few things I've lived through that can apply, so...
1) Keep an open mind. The most important piece of advice I've ever gotten.
2) This day, too, shall pass.
3) Worrying never fixes the problem, and usually makes it worse. So don't do it.
You're the man, Tony. You'll land on your feet. And then we'll go get some mother fuckin' PAD GAI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Remember UT, you've got gobs of well-deserved friends here, you're never alone. We love you Tony! The fact that we all communicate through on online medium does not indicate friendships with less depth.
I tossed a little in the Paypal tip jar which will hopefully help with the financial aspect of things... I've been enjoying the Cellar for a while on your dime, so I wish I could afford to give back even more.
If you need anything which we can provide, please ask.
Well Tone, being a young, newly-married whippersnapper myself, I can't really offer much in the advice department. But I do know how those first few weeks being away from my wife were like, and my deployment sure <i>seemed</i> like an eternity at the time.
So I'll just reiterate the "take it one day at a time" sentiment, and hang in there, man.
Very sorry to hear about it. Well, if it will make you feel any better, you're invited to the next BBQ at my house when the reconstruction is done. I was planning on inviting anyone who was at Plastic Forks, especially our host Bob.
Nothing like hot BBQ in front of a fireplace on a cold fall evening.
You all are great, you know that.
We don't have many friends. Last night talking about our situation, I pointed out that we both have a tiny set of people that we can call on for help and advice and a good word. She pointed out that I have the Cellar people beyond that. She's right. All your words and advice are very helpful.
In fact, working alone like I do, I don't know what I'd do without you all. So thanks for that too.
And the PayPal tip jar Is where?????:confused:
Originally posted by xoxoxoBruce
And the PayPal tip jar Is where?????:confused:
Look for the "PayPal Donate" icon at the very bottom of this page.
Thanks, Pas! I looked at the bottom of the Cellar page and didn't see it, even though it's there. must be a freudian thing. :D
Tony, I'm sure things will turn out okay. They always do. I wish I could be there for you in person, but unfortunately I'm too far away. If you need any advice or just an ear, though, I'm here. If something starts to get to you, just tell us about it. Just communicating problems sometimes helps. It certainly doesn't help to keep it bottled up.
In summary: Everything will be okay, and I'm here for you.
How much weight have you lost? That number is going down pretty steadily.
Depends whether one's countin' by my high water mark of two-fiddy, or the point at which I decided to start losing weight this time, 240.
Goin' by the latter, and my body's response to two pieces of pizza and a Coke (today's lone meal) I will have lost 10% of my body by tomorrow morning. Not bad for starting 6 weeks ago.
Wow.. nice job. How exactly are you doing it? The two-pieces-of-pizza-and-a-coke-a-day-diet?
From UT:
I always knew that if she found herself on solid ground, with self esteem and a belief in herself, that it might mean she'd decide I was expendable. But I still tried to help her reach that solid ground.
You're a good man, UT. More so because you did this because you believed it was right, but didn't do you any good.
So when I think about it that way, she is my greatest achievement
You are also a wise man. Recognizing what we have done that is right, especially when we are in pain is one of the most difficult things for one to do.
You'll be okay. Life is life, it's not easy nor fair. Personnaly, I've always believed that what matters is living a life you can respect yourself for. Sounds like you are doing well by that standard, even if you do say you're confused.
Thanks guy. I have always kind of found the broken women and tried to help them. My most serious girlfriend in college had been sexually abused by her father. My greatest hope is that she's happier today because we worked on it together. We are so often broken people, in a shattered society. I want to believe that we get what we give... it's only a little harder to believe that now.
[COLOR=indigo]You have been putting out good energy and according to my beliefs, it WILL come back to you, threefold.
You're a decent man, with a good heart and you WILL find someone that will appreciate you for who and what you are, even the dark parts you don't find so appealing.
I found it helps to just go day by day. You're "surrounded" by good people that really do care about you. We haven't met yet, but I'm completely willing to drive up to your house for the weekend and hang out if you want my brash sort of company, and you're always welcome to come here if you feel like you wanna take a road trip south.
Bottom line is: We love you, Tony, and I know you know this already, but sometimes it's good to hear.
[/COLOR]
I know what you mean. I gave up on the idea of karma or any other form of universal justice a long time ago. I just couldn't find any evidence for it.
The funny part was that facing a world with no exterior reason to be good, just or honorable I found the only decent reason to be any of these things: self-image.
I'm an honest, decent guy. I am so because I couldn't face my reflection if I wasn't. In the end I doubt you'll have a lot of regrets. You sound like you know you've done the right thing all along. It's sad when things fall apart, but since you've followed your beliefs you can still face yourself. In the end everyone is ultimately alone. You are the only one you truly have to answer to. From the sound of things, you've been living up to your own standards. That's really all that matters.
I was writing this in response to UT as OC posted... Talk about different approaches...
Tx OC! We will meet someday... I want to see if you talk in purple too.
Juju - I was on Weight Watchers for a while a few years back and I learned their points system, and it works quite well if one is committed to it. It's really just a simplified concept of calorie counting where they limit you to the right levels. Syc pointed out separately that I am blowing it by not getting enough calories, and he's right too; I've been under the WW lower limit for the last two days. Today I will eat.
[COLOR=indigo]*winks at whit* Different approaches with the same goal.
I feel that when you die, you've done well if you can look back on your life and either have no regrets, or be at peace with the ones you have. Steve taught me that, too. I chose then to try to make every day count.
So many times we take life and love for granted, and then when it's gone, we mourn it. It's a powerful reminder to appreciate what you have, then when it's gone, SMILE BECAUSE IT HAPPENED, try to reconcile yourself to learning the lessons the event taught you, take a deep breath, and anticipate the next day, because it can totally change your life. Isn't that what life is about?
[size=1] I know the "don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened" thing is cliche, but it IS something to strive for. If we could do more of that, we'd be better off.[/size][/COLOR]
It never fails that I lose weight best through 3 squares, about 1000-1700 calories a day, 30 minutes of walking every day, and 8-12 glasses of water.
UT's gonna be alright. We're gonna roll down to AC this weekend, eat at the White House, we'll get him a hooker...it'll rock!
Originally posted by Undertoad
I have always kind of found the broken women and tried to help them.
My first wife wasn't exactly broken when I found her, but she was, shall we say, undereducated in the finer side of life? She was terribly naieve, a bit coarse, and really, really tunnel vision afflicted.
Over the course of our marriage, I tried to open her eyes a little; things like the philosophy of world religions (she was a Lutheran, period), tolerance of differing sexual identities (early in our marriage, she met a friend of mine who had had a couple of lesbian experiences, and was repulsed...later, they became best friends), a broader range of arts, etc, etc.
Like UT, I took some pride in her changes even after she'd gone. Then, one day, four or five years after we split and she had remarried, I drove up in front of her trailer house to find her sitting in a lawn chair on her porch, shucking corn into a paper sack, a cigarette hanging from her lips, a beer can between her feet, and her husband's rusting 70's vintage Ford Fairmont with a deer skull in the back window parked on the lawn in front of where she sat. I might have been able to bear all of that, but knowing that her last name is now Clampitt kind of finished it all off for me, and I drove away shaking my head, mumbling "13 years of teaching down the drain."
Originally posted by Undertoad
I have always kind of found the broken women and tried to help them.
I had this same tendency for a while. One of my most serious girlfriends was a woman who had been raped a few years' prior to us getting together... her neighbor had snuck out on the roof of her apartment building, and watched her taking a bath. When she got out of the bath, he broke in and attacked her.
Needless to say, the result was terrible. In subsequent years, probably as a result of devastated self-esteem, she got involved in some really unfortunate relationships, with men who used and abused her. When I found her, she was an emotional ruin on several anti-depressant perscriptions. She put on a happy face, but it was superficial... she was miserable.
I had known her before the incident, we had worked together. When I ran into her later, I asked her out, we dated, and things began to get serious. I remember when she told me what happened to her... I had known
something awful happened to her, but to have her tell me the story... damn.
I won't subject you to the boring details of our relationship, but the short version of the story is that I gave everything I had to help heal the wounds, and in the end, she was off medication, and relatively happy, her self-esteem greatly improved. That was probably why it was so easy for her to toss me aside, and pursue another man... who happened to be my best friend and roommate at the time... but that is a long, convoluted tale for another day.
The sad folly of trying to fix a broken woman with love is that there are two likely outcomes... one: you wil succeed, and she will become a confident woman who loves herself and is ready to begin living life, putting her unpleasant past behind her; or two: you will fail, and where there was one unhappy person, there will be two.
It takes profound decency and goodness to want to help someone heal their wounds, but it can also take profound sacrifice. But you succeeded my friend, and though it is a shit sandwich today, in the end you're a better person for having done it. The next thing to do, after a suitable healing time, is admit that you deserve to find someone that makes you deleriously happy-- not a charity case-- and go find her!
Sheesh. What a bunch of morose, wounded, and abused 'nice guys'. I can't help but wonder which of you is secretly a shallow womanizer.
C'mon. You can't all be decent people.
In all seriousness, UT, the only divorce I've watched has been my parents, from the outside. And neither of them have really opened up about it, so I couldn't say what they did good or bad, or provide any advice.
It doesn't seem like you're in desperate need of guidance at this point, anyway.
From Ep:
...she met a friend of mine who had had a couple of lesbian experiences, and was repulsed...later, they became best friends
It's sad that she was ever repulsed though. I know that I'd love to have a "couple of lesbian experiences" myself. Ah well, to each their own.
Hey! This thread needed to lighten up a bit. Lemme alone. (Unless you can hook me up with that lesbian experience...)
[COLOR=indigo]I've had 2 guy-friends that have had 2 women at once and he said it really wasn't all he had heard it was, or what he thought it'd be. He said that he ws so busy trying make sure he met their needs at the same time that he couldn't enjoy it. I've never done a threesome with a guy in the mix, so I couldn't tell you.[/COLOR]
Feh, "meeting their needs" is most of the fun to me. Sounds like it'd be worth a try... or a dozen tries anyway...
I've never done a threesome with a guy in the mix
Whooo-hoooo! You are officially my hero! To use the colloquialism, you go girl!
[COLOR=indigo]**clears her throat**
....and now, back to your regularly topic'd thread...
[/COLOR]
Skunks, if it puts some perspective on things, I just spent the last half hour bawling like a baby. And I haven't made any plans for the next half hour.
I'm not saying that to get support. I know it's gonna be an emotional rollercoaster. And I'm the last one to go all needy on everyone, I'm not gonna do that. But you can bet that every single bit of support is meaningful and helpful and appreciated.
Even if somebody is saying Damn! That sucks Tone! That helps. In my most cynical of moments I couldn't imagine how it could help. But being here, I find it does help.
Originally posted by OnyxCougar
[COLOR=indigo]I've had 2 guy-friends that have had 2 women at once and he said it really wasn't all he had heard it was, or what he thought it'd be. [/COLOR]
Uh...it is most of what I'd always heard. The rest would take practice, and perhaps some enhanced flexibility, both physically and mentally.
I can tell you this much...don't get involved in something like that if any one of the trio has self-confidence or jealousy issues...bad, bad, bad...
Lisa just drew my attention to this thread. Tony, please let me know if you'd like to come hang out with us for an evening; we live so close it'd be dumb not to. I'm PMing you my phone number
Originally posted by Undertoad
...I'm the last one to go all needy on everyone, I'm not gonna do that. But you can bet that every single bit of support is meaningful and helpful and appreciated.
Tony, we all know that if one of us took a blow, you'd be right there offering help, so don't stress about coming off as needy. A person's only "needy" if they want to take more than they'd give.
I can send you my phone number if you need somebody to shoot the shit with, I'm up half the night every night anyway. I know that's not too helpful, but I'll do what I can.
Hey Tony. Just wanted to say that I'm sorry to hear about your situation. I like what others have said about "smile because it happened". I think I can learn from that advice too. ;)
Oh and um...make sure that Syc doesn't bet away the farm when you guys go to AC this weekend. :D
[COLOR=indigo]Without wanting to get all squishy here, I'd like to say that I'm looking around and you know what? We're a big dysfunctional family. We fight and bicker and insult, but for the most part, when one of us needs help with something, the rest jump in and help where they can. And that's what I love about this place. And I think it's evident not only in this thread, but with Elspode and Dagney and some of the others who posted with stuff they needed help with or an opinion on. It's also evident in the whole webscalpel fiasco.
I'm happy to be here.[/COLOR]
Tony, perhaps if you told us more of the situation, how you feel, or what you're thinking about, we might be able to help you feel a little better? It certainly doesn't help to keep things bottled up, and it might help to talk about it.
lisa called me directly and we talked for a good hour... I am reconnecting to a lot of people.
Juju, I think now that this is just what happens in a divorce situation. I never understood it before; how can it be SO painful? Nobody dies, people are just trying to improve on life's situation.
But it's the emotional bonds that make it painful - take any non-marital breakup you've had, and multiply it by ten.
At the same time, I've written a longer version of the story to a few people, and I've told the longer version on the phone to about 6 people, and the big picture coalesces.
Practically every thought I've had for 11 years and in the 5 years before that when we were going out, has been with her involved in some way. What we're doing tomorrow, next week, next month is always with the other in mind. Now suddenly it's not, and everything around me is another little reminder that things are different now, and I'm confused. I sit in the chair she picked out, pet the dogs we raised, consider watching the show we were gonna watch.
Thr future we were going to have, that now only confuses me. Will I make it? Will it be incredibly painfully lonely? Maybe it won't! But it becomes more terrifying because of the confusion.
I don't see much of a response to this, and I write it because you asked and I think people may find it interesting. And maybe not a road accident sort of interesting. I just put it out there, there it is...
Originally posted by Undertoad
Even if somebody is saying Damn! That sucks Tone! That helps. In my most cynical of moments I couldn't imagine how it could help. But being here, I find it does help.
Y'know, maybe that's just it. Maybe I'm too cynical, unscarred, and naive to sympathize with, as I said, something I've only ever observed from a good bit of distance.
Give me a few years, alright?
Which isn't to say I don't see where you're coming from, either: I can dig that it sucks for you. I'm just having trouble with the magnitude, apparently.
<font size="-2">(...So, er, about those lesbians...?)</font>
how can it be SO painful?
I dont know. Your heart, guts, mind are physically shifting. I know that you are hurting, and I'm with you bro.
UT,
Just to let you know, I'm here, I'm listening, and will do whatever I can for yah. (Offer void where prohibited by law and good taste).
skunks wrote:
I can't help but wonder which of you is secretly a shallow womanizer.
That would be all of them. Particularly that Sycamore dude.
(except slang, of course, who is a paragon of masculine virtue (he occasionally puts the seat down, even) ... NO I AM NOT DRUNK!!!)
Tx OC! We will meet someday... I want to see if you talk in purple too.
She do UT, she do.
(except slang, of course, who is a paragon of masculine virtue (he occasionally puts the seat down, even) ... NO I AM NOT DRUNK!!!)
Don't start with that toilet seat shit.:mad:
The problem with helping the needy, is that in order to effect a complete recovery they need to put everything behind them. That includes the one that helped them accomplish it. Always.
Hey UT, did I hear Syc is going to buy you a hooker? That's mighty nice of him considering they're expensive in AC.:D Here's one from Vegas.
Originally posted by Undertoad
I never understood it before; how can it be SO painful? Nobody dies, people are just trying to improve on life's situation.
But it's the emotional bonds that make it painful - take any non-marital breakup you've had, and multiply it by ten.
Practically every thought I've had for 11 years and in the 5 years before that when we were going out, has been with her involved in some way.
You've hit the biggest part of it right on the head, UT. It hurts, because you *have* ceased to think of your partner as an individual, and started to think of her as a part of *you*. It would be equally painful to cut off a couple of toes. Oh, sure, you know you'll survive it and all, but it damn it, it hurts!
The other part of it is the rejection. It is simply hideous knowing that somehow, some way, against all reason, in direct opposition to everything you have tried to do...that someone would finally decide they were better off without you than with you. I'm still not over the shock of that from my first marriage, particularly when I see what I got traded in for. Sheesh.
However, none of this is an absolute, man. Therefore, it does not mean you have failed, or even done anything wrong. And, by the way, it *does* get better. It most definitely *does* get better...and this is coming from someone who gave some pretty serious consideration to checking out when he was going through it.
If you want some frank talk about my past divorce experience, you know how to PM me, but I won't drag it all across the board. It is a bit too sordid, but I promise some minor enlightenment if you do ask. :)
If you want some frank talk about my past divorce experience, you know how to PM me, but I won't drag it all across the board. It is a bit too sordid, but I promise some minor enlightenment if you do ask.
Good idea, that would spoil the book. Can hardly wait.:D
From Ep:
...that someone would finally decide they were better off without you than with you. I'm still not over the shock of that from my first marriage, particularly when I see what I got traded in for. Sheesh.
You know, this is an interesting point because, I think, a lot of us have been there.
We work so hard to make someone's life better, only to be left and then see them drop significantly. My theory is that I was artificially bolstering the level that person felt most comfortable at. Making them a better person than they actually wished to be. This sounds strange I know, but remember not everyone wishes to better themselves.
Anyway, in my case I hold myself partially responsible. Clearly, I was transposing my own values on to someone else. Always a mistake. I say 'partially' because anytime I've done this I've been told the other person had the same values. So I made an honest mistake due to being to trusting. Still, it was my mistake to make. The results were foreseeable, my "help" is needed for a while, but eventually chafes. Then the breakup ensues.
I'm not suggesting that this is what happened with UT, 'cause frankly I don't know enough about the specifics to have an opinion. Just relating what's happened to me, and from the sound of it, a lot of us.
Originally posted by xoxoxoBruce
Don't start with that toilet seat shit.:mad:
I wasn't gonna start with it ... honest. I truly don't give a damn whether it's up or it's down, or even if the roll is replaced when empty. I take responsibility for myself in such matters. (That, my ability to shoot, and love for violent videogames apparently makes me fairly prized as a companion and lifemate.)
Originally posted by Whit
You know, this is an interesting point because, I think, a lot of us have been there.
We work so hard to make someone's life better, only to be left and then see them drop significantly. My theory is that I was artificially bolstering the level that person felt most comfortable at. Making them a better person than they actually wished to be. This sounds strange I know, but remember not everyone wishes to better themselves.
Anyway, in my case I hold myself partially responsible. Clearly, I was transposing my own values on to someone else. Always a mistake. I say 'partially' because anytime I've done this I've been told the other person had the same values. So I made an honest mistake due to being to trusting. Still, it was my mistake to make. The results were foreseeable, my "help" is needed for a while, but eventually chafes. Then the breakup ensues.
I'm not suggesting that this is what happened with UT, 'cause frankly I don't know enough about the specifics to have an opinion. Just relating what's happened to me, and from the sound of it, a lot of us.
This is what happend to me. I tried to take what I thought was a very simular human being with simular past relationship issues and build a very healthy relationship. BOY - was it not! I had someone that I was engaged to cheat on me and then leave me a note in my mailbox saying that he didn't want to get married. The other guy had a simular experience with his ex-fiance. Therefore - since both of us were very adamant about cheating and how it sucks to be on the other end of it - I knew I could trust this person. Until I found condoms & his socks and underware (that I bought him for christmas) in my roomate's bedroom after I had been out of town for a funeral.
So Toad - what that has to do with your situation - I have no idea. But the above hurt. It took months to get over it. Also - because I am a firm believer in Karma - I did nothing in retaliation. I didn't even have the big confruntation and screaming yelling match. I just moved. So - even to this day years later - I still get a pain just thinking about it. But - I know that I personally gave all I could to that relationship. I know how I acted and I can be proud of that. While my situation is different - you sound the same. Take pride in the fact that you cared so much and gave so much. Take pride in yourself. Yeah - it sucks - not gonna deny that. But little by little it does get easier. (Also - don't drink alone - unless watching Jerry Springer cause that makes your life look so much better.)
Huggles and snuggles to ya.
Originally posted by Whit
Lemme alone. (Unless you can hook me up with that lesbian experience...)
Well...
Originally posted by Undertoad
. . . I never understood it before; how can it be SO painful? . . .
Wow, I was just reading
[color=blue]this article[/color] and then stumbled upon this thread. UT, I am so sorry to hear your news. All I can offer is that I went through a divorce (after 15 years and 3 kids) that no one really wanted, but was inevitable due to a serious, ongoing medical/mental problem. It is now three years since we separated, and the divorce became final a few months ago. I seriously reconsidered several times, but this really seemes to have been the best outcome we could hope for (no headlines about "Wife, Kids Found Dead in Suburban Home" which was a distinct possibility).
When he finally moved out, our friends were shocked and disturbed, because the problems in the marriage were of such a private nature, and we were involved in so many facets of our community and held in high esteem as a 'happy couple.' It has given me a whole new perspective on the private lives of others -- as I drive through neighborhoods of manicured lawns and happy children, I am acutely aware that there's a story behind every door.
Similar to the outpouring of support you have received here, ranging from tangible assistance to simply 'being there,' I was heartened by the amazing response of my friends and neighbors -- to both of us. It really helped to know that so many people cared, and to such depth.
In the long run, after the pain, confusion, doubt, disarray, changes, etc., it has come out on the positive side; the kids are doing well, my ex is getting the treatment he needs, and I eventually met HB!
If we can help in any way, I sure hope you'll let us know. Can't offer much help with the employment, but we've got enough of all the rest to share (but aren't you staying in the house?) -- and, of course, if you meander down to Baltimore, we'd love to be your hosts.
Originally posted by wolf
I wasn't gonna start with it ... honest. I truly don't give a damn whether it's up or it's down, or even if the roll is replaced when empty. I take responsibility for myself in such matters. (That, my ability to shoot, and love for violent videogames apparently makes me fairly prized as a companion and lifemate.)
My wife doesn't care about the tp being on the roll either...she must not, 'cause she never replaces it! :D
Wolf, it sounds like you are most guy's dream woman, but there are other qualifying characteristics:
1) Do you like televised sports, no matter what the subject?
2) How many socks and underwear on the floor is too many?
3) Your man says he needs a large screen TV. Do you (a) ask how much it costs, or (b) offer to drive to Best Buy?
4) Finances become tight. Do you (a) cut down on the ammo budget, or (b) rush out and bring home reloading equipment and coo sexily that it seems like a great couples' activity to you?
[COLOR=indigo]Is that question open to all the women or just Ms. Wolf?[/COLOR]
1) Do you like televised sports, no matter what the subject?
no matter what the subject, no...and golf is not a sport.
2) How many socks and underwear on the floor is too many?
ask me about the ones he left hanging on the bathroom doorknob the day i had the "ladies' circle" over to my house.
3) Your man says he needs a large screen TV. Do you (a) ask how much it costs, or (b) offer to drive to Best Buy?
I say -- your eyes must be going. get to the doctor, or..sit closer.
4) Finances become tight. Do you (a) cut down on the ammo budget, or (b) rush out and bring home reloading equipment and coo sexily that it seems like a great couples' activity to you?
this must be a wolf-only question.... :shotgun:
[color=indigo]
Since dar replied, I'll throw mines in too.
1) Do you like televised sports, no matter what the subject?
If we assume golf is not a sport, YES!
2) How many socks and underwear on the floor is too many?
We have a FLOOR?
3) Your man says he needs a large screen TV. Do you (a) ask how much it costs, or (b) offer to drive to Best Buy?
(b) Offer to drive and try to convince him to buy surround sound/home theatre components on the way.
4) Finances become tight. Do you (a) cut down on the ammo budget, or (b) rush out and bring home reloading equipment and coo sexily that it seems like a great couples' activity to you?
B!!
Originally posted by wolf
I wasn't gonna start with it ... honest. I truly don't give a damn whether it's up or it's down, or even if the roll is replaced when empty. I take responsibility for myself in such matters. (That, my ability to shoot, and love for violent videogames apparently makes me fairly prized as a companion and lifemate.)
C'mon, you're yanking my chain.:rolleyes: I refuse to believe there is anyone, regardless of race, color, creed, religion or sexual preference, that is not annoyed by finding the tp roll empty. Especially when they just barely made it in time.:p
As a matter of fact, I think that's why Lucifer was cast out of heaven.:D
Originally posted by Elspode
Wolf, it sounds like you are most guy's dream woman, but there are other qualifying characteristics:
Yes, Wolf is a dream woman in many ways and I greatly appreciate her attitudes and flexibility.
Wolf, it sounds like you are most guy's dream woman, but there are other qualifying characteristics:
1) Do you like televised sports, no matter what the subject?
Yes. I even have favorite teams and can (semi) intelligently discuss the finer points of several types of sporting contests. I will admit that I am not able to give accurate play by plays of minor events in years-past games, but I believe this is an illustration of the innate difference in the wiring of the male vs. female brains.
2) How many socks and underwear on the floor is too many?
If the bedroom becomes too full I will sleep on the couch in the office.
3) Your man says he needs a large screen TV. Do you
(a) ask how much it costs, or
(b) offer to drive to Best Buy?
Offer to drive to the Tweeter home entertainment store because I understand that the Bang and Olufson surround sound stereo package goes MUCH better with the Sony Plasma HDTV wallscreen.
Oh, and I make sure we get the one that will also interface with the computer system. AND that there are enough RCA and optical jacks available to handle all the other components and game systems.
4) Finances become tight. Do you
(a) cut down on the ammo budget, or
(b) rush out and bring home reloading equipment and coo sexily that it seems like a great couples' activity to you?
The ammo budget is not something eligible for cutting. We can do without broccoli and salads for a bit.
Moreso (b), but will be perfectly happy messing about with the equipment myself. Just means I do a little less cross stitching and crocheting during the winter months.
Not all activities need to be group activities, after all.
Originally posted by slang
Yes, Wolf is a dream woman in many ways and I greatly appreciate her attitudes and flexibility.
:blush:
Thank you sweetheart! :) (warm happy glow)
Originally posted by slang
flexibility
<beavis>hehheh... he said flexibility.... hehheh... </beavis>
So in other words, the ideal woman is... a man.
[SIZE=1]Not sure about this[/SIZE]
Originally posted by Elspode
My wife doesn't care about the tp being on the roll either...she must not, 'cause she never replaces it! :D
Wolf, it sounds like you are most guy's dream woman, but there are other qualifying characteristics:
1) Do you like televised sports, no matter what the subject?
2) How many socks and underwear on the floor is too many?
3) Your man says he needs a large screen TV. Do you (a) ask how much it costs, or (b) offer to drive to Best Buy?
4) Finances become tight. Do you (a) cut down on the ammo budget, or (b) rush out and bring home reloading equipment and coo sexily that it seems like a great couples' activity to you?
I'm answering to - because according to a friend of mine - he is now using me as the perfect girl for the armed forces because 1) I love video games 2) I have a subscription to playboy 3) I go to strip clubs, with my mom.... (adopted) 4) I don't give a damn about the toilet seat 5) I can keep up with Navy drinking.
1) Do you like televised sports, no matter what the subject?
I'm the only one in the house that does. BF likes playing - not watching. I swear at the TV. In this - I get it from my mom who is an enormous sports fan.
2) How many socks and underwear on the floor is too many?
If I have none left to wear. (Unfortunately with this - turning inside out and using other side is not an option - I will just go commando)
3) Your man says he needs a large screen TV. Do you (a) ask how much it costs, or (b) offer to drive to Best Buy?
- B - kinda - I would do all the comparison shopping - find the best deal and borrow my buddys truck to go get it.
4) Finances become tight. Do you (a) cut down on the ammo budget, or (b) rush out and bring home reloading equipment and coo sexily that it seems like a great couples' activity to you?
Being as we just last weekend got a 4 point - either and both. LOL
Originally posted by wolf
I wasn't gonna start with it ... honest. I truly don't give a damn whether it's up or it's down
OK, so could one or more of the ladies explain this whole toilet seat thing? I mean, not to be too offensive (like I could do that in this crowd anyway), if I woke up in the middle of the night and peed on the lid because somebody had left it down and I didn't bother to check before I started, I'd be laughed out of the house if I complained about it. So why are some women so insistent on this particular topic to the point that it's legendary for starting horrible arguments?
Personally, I just don't like getting an ass full of cold water in the middle of the night when I'm half asleep trying not to wake my other half by not turning the light on.
Besides, ya'll tend to miss, and I REALLY don't wanna be sitting in THAT.
Dagney
Originally posted by Dagney
Personally, I just don't like getting an ass full of cold water in the middle of the night when I'm half asleep trying not to wake my other half by not turning the light on.
Besides, ya'll tend to miss, and I REALLY don't wanna be sitting in THAT.
Dagney
If you don't want an ass full of cold water put the seat down first. you don't need a god damn light to do that.
You don't want piss on the seat? Fair enough. Very reasonable. But then you want us to put the seat back down so it's ready for you? Why in hell don't you put the seat up so it's ready for us?
Nooo, you want it your way all the time. You want us to put it up AND down while you do nothing. Bullshit.
Lets compromise. EVERYBODY put the seat AND the lid down after use. Everytime..no exceptions....that's fair to everyone and you always know what you're going to find.:angry:
Clearly the only answer is to leave the seat down, and we will pee in the sink.
[SIZE=1]problem fucking solved[/SIZE]
If you don't want an ass full of cold water put the seat down first. you don't need a god damn light to do that.
You don't want piss on the seat? Fair enough. Very reasonable. But then you want us to put the seat back down so it's ready for you? Why in hell don't you put the seat up so it's ready for us?
Nooo, you want it your way all the time. You want us to put it up AND down while you do nothing. Bullshit.
Lets compromise. EVERYBODY put the seat AND the lid down after use. Everytime..no exceptions....that's fair to everyone and you always know what you're going to find.
my wife and i have had this same argument . Afriend who had 3(wife and 2 daughters ) girls and 2 guys ( him and his son ) came up with the BEST answer . Seat and top down for safety reasons , small kids can drownd in the toylet bowl :cool:
Originally posted by Undertoad
Clearly the only answer is to leave the seat down, and we will pee in the sink.
[SIZE=1]problem fucking solved[/SIZE]
Problem fucking is solved by peeing in the sink? Shit, and all this time, I've been paying out the ass for Viagra?!
Originally posted by SteveDallas
<beavis>hehheh... he said flexibility.... hehheh... </beavis>
flexibility = not bitching in general but specifically about my trashy apt , loaded guns and live ammo laying around.
Originally posted by darclauz
1) Do you like televised sports, no matter what the subject?
no matter what the subject, no...and golf is not a sport.
Okay, golf is not a sport. Therefore, it must be an art, because anything that damn difficult is either one or the other.
2) How many socks and underwear on the floor is too many?
ask me about the ones he left hanging on the bathroom doorknob the day i had the "ladies' circle" over to my house.
Hey, Dar...what about the ones he left - did you say 'stuck to' or 'hanging on'? - the door?
3) Your man says he needs a large screen TV. Do you (a) ask how much it costs, or (b) offer to drive to Best Buy?
I say -- your eyes must be going. get to the doctor, or..sit closer..
Bzzzzzzz!!!! I'm sorry, but that answer is not correct! Clearly, you must already own a TV of at least 48" diameter if you don't think you need a larger one.
4) Finances become tight. Do you (a) cut down on the ammo budget, or (b) rush out and bring home reloading equipment and coo sexily that it seems like a great couples' activity to you?
this must be a wolf-only question.... :shotgun:
Oh, hell no...in fact, although I only initially addressed it to Wolf, I've really enjoyed everyone's responses. The Cellar obviously attracts a lot of prime females!
Beautiful post, Bruce. That's EXACTLY how I feel, and I've said the same many times. It simply amazes me that millions of women feel <i>so strongly</i> about an argument that makes <i>absolutely no fucking sense</i>.
Although poor Dagney was just answering your question. :)
Okay, so can a woman make up a list of qualifying characteristics for the "dream man"?
OHHH THIS SHOULD BE GOOD !!!:D :D
Originally posted by zippyt
the BEST answer . Seat and top down for safety reasons , small kids can drownd in the toylet bowl :cool:
I agree, it's the best solution. I mean, who could complain about that? Also, our toilet is right next to the sink, so I also make sure the lid's down while I'm futzing with my contacts. I can just imagine dropping one down the toilet.
Oh and thanks Bruce. Great answer.
Originally posted by juju
Okay, so can a woman make up a list of qualifying characteristics for the "dream man"?
The answer is:
[SIZE=3]Undertoad![/SIZE] :D
toad,
What do you do for a living when you ARE employed? I'm in Chadds Ford.
I'm real new here and don't have the background on the situation with the future exwife. Why is she giving up? ( if its not too personal to discuss) do you guys fight, or avoid each other.....the latter is worse in my mind.
kids?
Other music to avoid at a time like this: The Cure, The Smiths.
You're right to avoid the weed at this point, although normally it has good uses, it does not help at all with depression. Try hard physical labor. aka, nailing all of your wife's shoes up on the roof, or sawing the legs off of her favorite furniture. Be petty, be very petty. short sheet her bed........did you ever see "the war of the roses"?
Originally posted by xoxoxoBruce
If you don't want an ass full of cold water put the seat down first. you don't need a god damn light to do that.
You don't want piss on the seat? Fair enough. Very reasonable. But then you want us to put the seat back down so it's ready for you? Why in hell don't you put the seat up so it's ready for us?
Nooo, you want it your way all the time. You want us to put it up AND down while you do nothing. Bullshit.
Lets compromise. EVERYBODY put the seat AND the lid down after use. Everytime..no exceptions....that's fair to everyone and you always know what you're going to find.:angry:
Well, now that I've finished putting the shards of my ass back together.....
I never realized the whole 'seat' debate was such a touchy subject! Sorry to light your fire Bruce....
I won't even begin to ask about the whole toilet paper debate (does the flap go on the INSIDE of the roll or the OUTSIDE?)
Oh, and by the way...I do do something, I usually clean the bathroom.....and I tend want to keep it clean. Just one of my 'thangs'.
Dagney
I don't think he really meant that energetic response to be directed towards you specicifically. No doubt many other women have pushed him over the edge. :)
I'm a tech guy and an Internet guy, jack of all trades sort. I have a small business doing web development and programming. It's all out of my home. It used to be bigger but collapsed in the bubble burst. (Many of the ashes of the business are still visible at catalystinternet.com. I plan to redo that site though, to reflect an individual and not a team.) I make enough money to make half a living at it, and I've kinda been in "maintenance mode", but now must gear up.
(Either that or get a "real job", or contracting work through an agency... possibly...)
!No kids!
The truth of it is that we have been in a mostly loveless marriage our whole time together, and have been working hard make it work all along, and she has come to the thinking that it won't ever work.
For a long time she felt that she needed the security of me and the life that we built together. Then she went to therapy, and went on medications, and started to solve her personality problems of Generalized Anxiety Disorder and whatnot. In the last two months, it seems, she has become a whole new person, suddenly spontaneous and carefree. I think she figured out that she was leaving on Labor Day, and resolved made the changes in herself that she needed to make.
Three weeks ago she went on a dude ranch vacation by herself and met some other independent people who have made lives without men around (well they're lesbians). This gave her some confidence. And also, she met another guy, who took an immediate liking to her. In this she was able to see how other people make it on their own, and to prove her own desireability to herself by, you know, sleeping with the guy and becoming instantly and immediately infatuated with him in a way she never did with me. They still talk every night on the phone. She doesn't know if it'll last but she's having fun. OK.
She has committed to an apartment on 11/1 and will be moving out that day, taking with her the least number of items she needs to build a new life from scratch.
Number of apartments she looked at before deciding: 1. I don't recognize this person, who used to be the most cautious individual ever built. Every decision used to be met with long lists of pros and cons and agonizing. Suddenly even the big decisions are immediate and carefree.
ouch! my wife wanted to go to one of those with the women from her "moms with minds"loop ( also mostly lesbians) glad it never happened......another guy .......grrrrr
11 YEARS
well....i'd say get out there and start flirting.....that's all great that you helped her find her true self and gave her the confidence she was missing, but for her to turn around and stick it up your butt like that at the first sign of a clear sky sucks canal water. she talks to this guy on your phone with you in the house......fuck! that's just wrong...I'm all pissed off over it. that's disrespect at its utmost, and if you stand for that, you deserve it. Toughen up. Stop feeling sorry for yourself. You are the man. Get free! Do not allow her infidelity in your house. damn! tell her she can call all the men she wants from HER phone when sh's out! Meanwhile, paybacks!! bring a couple ho's home and rub her nose in it......
remember that he who recovers first recovers best.
all that said......if im off base and there is more going on, i apologize
I never realized the whole 'seat' debate was such a touchy subject! Sorry to light your fire Bruce....
And I was being nice because I like you.:D
It sets me off because it's a recognizable tip of an unseen but persistant undercurrent. What I perceive as an unfair attitude of mens inherent behavior being bad while womens inherent behavior being good without regard fair and equitable.
It's the old "If a man speaks and a woman doesn't hear him, is he still wrong?" kind of thing. Sorry if I startled you, Dagney. :)
It's okay Bruce, I have fairly thick skin....
(although I must say, my first response was..."What the fuck crawled up HIS ass"....)
But I still love you :) (Even if we can't agree on the position of the toilet seat!)
Dagney
toad,
as i think more about this, you should be happy. a loveless relationship from the beginning.....now you'll be free to pursue a loving relationship with a more adjusted and appropriate mate. Keep her as afriend, which she must be for you to tolerate the above treatment, and don't dwell on the loss of a ROOMATE....just get a better one.
and btw, bruce, you're right about the toilet seat conspiracy.....and the only viable solution IS to keep it closed when not in use. beyond that, you could install a urinal.
[COLOR=indigo]I can't come up with a fair questoinaire for the "dream man" because I'm not a "typical" woman. Besides, Cellarites have instant advantage because they are on the internet, use computers, probably game, and are intelligent, which are the basics for me, anyway.
And I agree with Bruce on the side thing. Leave both lids down and there's no guesswork involved.[/COLOR]
I got this, cougar
the perfect man:
2 ft tall, can breath through his ears and has a ten inch tongue
[COLOR=indigo]Maybe YOUR perfect man. I require more than constant sex.[/COLOR]
Originally posted by OnyxCougar
[COLOR=indigo]Maybe YOUR perfect man. I require more than constant sex.[/COLOR]
sorry to offend, onyx, it was an old joke.....and, i am a man....so MY perfect man is one that buys the beer, loves the Cowboys, and doesn't oogle my wife.
oh, and what else is there besides constant sex?
UT, after a long friendship/partnership there has to be some sense of loss and maybe a little envy of half the team striking off in a new endeavor. Especially if they show extreme excitement and enthusiasm, you're bound to have those "What am I, chopped liver?" feelings.
But don't dwell on the past, learn and profit from it. Then when in a year or two you're an internet mogul with a trophy wife, you can brag to the rest of us losers. :D
Originally posted by lumberjim
oh, and what else is there besides constant sex?
[COLOR=indigo]I did say
most Cellarites have the advantage by virtue of intelligence, didn't I?[/COLOR]
The years between my first wife's departure and meeting my current spouse were a strange and wonderful mixture of loneliness, cockiness, ups and downs, wild and crazy sex with lots of new and different women, really long dry spells wherein I was certain that no one would ever have anything to do with me again...in short, things were a pendulum, swinging crazily from one side to the other, with all things in between. But at least the pendulum kept swinging, you know?
After you've been in a monogamous relationship for a long, long time, and you get out there on the streets again, it is both stimulating and terrifying. Even when you manage to hook up with someone, you then start worrying about "what if they're crazy" (some will be), "what if she becomes obsessed with me and I don't really like her that much" (it might happen), "what if I like her a lot but I'm just a fun toy and a pal for her" (happened to me), "what if, after we get funky, she goes home and I realize that I'm just as alone as I was when we hooked up"...
When things go good, there's no better feeling in the world. You feel great about yourself, you feel renewed, powerful, desireable. When things don't go quite as well, you feel like an ogre, stupid, clumsy, an outcast.
No matter whether it goes well or not, every day you have to trust in yourself, you have to be strong, you have to have at least a modicum of self-discipline. Otherwise, all is lost.
Originally posted by slang
flexibility = not bitching in general but specifically about my trashy apt , loaded guns and live ammo laying around.
Slang's pretty much flexible in the same way ... another of the reasons we get along.
Originally posted by lumberjim
......and doesn't google my wife.
Zat a real problem? :D
Well I googled Lumberjim and got this image.
I also googled Lumberjim's wife and got ziltch so I googled wife and got 38,700,000 hits but I don't know which one is his.:p
Hey, Dar...what about the ones he left - did you say 'stuck to' or 'hanging on'? - the door?
------------------
hanging on.
i cleaned. and cleaned. and did the whole martha-freaking-stewart thing. stuffed mushrooms, made little phylo-dough cups for some fancy crap...alll kinds of things. i had a group of friends...some editors from a local paper, etc...over. it was stylish. it was a hit.
at the end, with said guests out the door, dar feeling pretty proud, i went to divest myself of diet coke....
closed the door, sat...
and looked up to see bright red underwear hanging from the doorknob.
thought back...and realized every guest had emptied bladders before leaving the house.
his reason? after the shower, didn't want to leave them on the floor.
Originally posted by xoxoxoBruce
It's the old "If a man speaks and a woman doesn't hear him, is he still wrong?" kind of thing. :)
now, how am i supposed to answer THAT??!?!
My God Dar, you let him use the bathroom after you cleaned?:eek:
Lumberjim, the "loss of a roommate" line is one of the best yet. You put it exactly how I need to think about it.
I'm built differently, I think, being an only child raised by a single parent mom. When she rejected me, the idea that there might have been someone else in the recipe really didn't matter. It would have been as much a problem for me if she had come back saying she tried to get laid and failed.
In fact I expect she's having phone sex with the dude in the very same bed we've slept in for ages. The hurtful thing is that we were never that intense. Never had phone sex. Although I was/would have been that intense for her, she never really was for me.
So, I think, for whatever reason, she wanted to believe that I was "the one", but I wasn't. And so she went the same way as, perhaps, Juju's friend's husband, the one who's "not gay". Like that guy, or at least who we think he might be -- she tried to believe she loved me, but never really did. Tried to convince herself she was sexually attracted to me, but never really was. Tried to make me something different, until I pushed back hard. Tried to convince herself that her upbringing was the problem and, thus, that SHE was the problem -- when really, the problem was US all along.
Unfortunate. But it does happen, all the time from what I've seen. Didn't think it would happen to me. Didn't see it happening...
But here's the good part: the next woman I hook up with is going to downright adore me, worship me, respect me, praise me and love me, because you people tell me I deserve it, and I believe you, and I'm never ever ever going to make this mistake again.
Look forward to that story when I write in in 2009.
Originally posted by xoxoxoBruce
Well I googled Lumberjim and got this image.
Nice hat Jim! :)
Originally posted by darclauz
and did the whole martha-freaking-stewart thing.
What? Dumped some stock based on insider info?
Originally posted by Undertoad
But here's the good part: the next woman I hook up with is going to downright adore me, worship me, respect me, praise me and love me, because you people tell me I deserve it, and I believe you, and I'm never ever ever going to make this mistake again.
Dude, don't just take our word for it. Everyone deserves to be treated special by their s.o., so long as you do right by them.
Tried to make me something different, until I pushed back hard.
Well they all do that, but if they love you they don't get pissy if it doesn't succeed. Then some succeed and don't like what they've created so screw it, be you.:)
Update: she read the thread. She says there's no phone sex going on.
Well Sharon, last night I heard the unmistakeable hint at it at 2:30 AM from the other room... the answer to the questions "where are you and what are you wearing"... which all men know are precursor questions. (You might not know that since you have next to zero experience with men and sexuality. Your little recent life exploration not withstanding.)
Sharon, if you want to do that from now on, go down to your car. Now THERE'S a good reason for you to have that car. After all, you got it thinking it would make you more attractive to men... RIGHT? That's why I drove it back from Long Island, serving your every little need again, to make you more attractive?
Look, Lumberjim was right. If I hear that kind of shit coming from the other room, and the doors are plenty thin by the way, I will fucking come in there and throw your fucking phone out the fucking window.
She had no comment on the idea that maybe figuring out that I wasn't the one for 11 years would have saved some of the prime of my life. She suggested she wasn't playing me and then said she has been figuring this out since January. She said my idea of making some extra money by playing music was a huge disappointment to her. And then I threw her the fuck out.
Hey Sharon, how much does your new boyfriend make? Is it enough for you, is it "fair", or will you end up casually insulting him every day too, until he's a shell of a man? Are you going to constantly lord it over him too, the fact that you (probably) make more money than he does? Is that going to eat into your psyche every time you think about it, the way it has with me? And if not, will you take back all the shit you've put me through?
How much is enough, Sharon? How much will make you think you're happy? Is there ANY amount? Is there anyone more money-hungry than you in this world? Do you think it has made you safe and secure?
[size=-1]How could I think the anger phase wouldn't affect me? I'm loving it![/size]
I see a familiar pattern. Because you love someone you do everything you can for them. Everything you can think of to make them happy, safe and comfortable. You do it because you feel it's the right thing and just a natural way of showing your love.
But the one that loves the least, controls the relationship.
So when the one you've given your all to, rejects you and walks away from the relationship, you're angry. You accuse them of using you all along and that may not be true. Were they deceitful by accepting your efforts that you gave so willingly? By allowing you to do things they didn't ask for? After years of you giving are they so accustomed to it they take it for granted? I guess the answers have to be answered on a case by case basis and nobody can do it for your case, but you. I only caution to be honest with yourself and not shoot yourself in the foot.
UT,
I'm very glad to see you getting this stuff out and said rather than just letting it blow past you or trying to ignore it.
We're here with yah, buddy (if you'll permit me the courtesy of speaking for the bunch).
*sigh*
And now, in the dark of night, half of my rant was undeserved and partly wacky imagining... see how the emotional coaster goes?
And I told her so; and I apologized for it, in as much as "it" may not be completely over we both know that it's emotional cleansing.
Even if I go astray, I prefer to write my thoughts here, and to write about it a little here. Why: it helps me to get my head together, but it's also sharing it all with you semi-publicly, because this is what happens in life. Now I am understanding it better, now anyone else who cares to read will understand it better. Advantage, us.
Enjoy the view on the way up,
Scream WHEEEE on the way down.
This too shall pass.:)
yeah, bruce, yeah.
toad is the giver....bad play.
toad....you cannot win as the giver when the taker wants to leave. you threw her out? wow
if she reads this thread, then you probably should not post the particulars of what your problems are. your friends are here to support you, but details make people uncomfortable. ...sometimes. that is, you shouldn't use this as a medium to communicate with sharon.
get over her as quick as you can.....step back and be as honest with yourself as you can, and with her.
as for the bit about you two never really getting hot enough over each other to have phone sex......
chemistry........heat
ever meet a girl who isn't that pretty or doesnt have such a great bod, but you still get a semi from? that's chemistry...go get that, ut.
and knock the bottom out of it nightly!
no offense ladies......just tryin to pep the man up.
oh, and that picture is not even close....must be of the west coast lumberjims
lumberjim = cross between drew cary and keefer sutherland
Well "throw her out" meant out of the room, I should have written it better.
toad,
Don;t thin of this as being rejected, or being left.....never say to her "you left me"
and don't try to change to make her stay!....just let her get out of the way.....she's doing you a favor, really....the next 1.567 years will suck, but you'll be more careful this time and get a girl that is a little more zesty for you.
here's how i see you two:
if you two weren't clicking for eleven years, then you knew it too, but accepted it. You can't really blame her for doing something about it. she needs to respect you enough to not hang the other guy in your face, and you should try not to be resentful and petty.
But get her out of there pronto....and start dating immediatley.....just do not fall in love for at least the above mentioned time period of 1.567 years. after that, fire at will.
chin up!.....back straight!!! .......suck in that gut!!!!!
( this shit your going through is the real reason you've been losing weight.....subconsciously you knew you'd be on the prowl again soon.....)
Pass the viagra!
[COLOR=indigo]I don't think dating so soon is a good idea. Putting yourself out there when you aren't whole isn't fair for you or the women you may speak to.
On the more conservative side, you aren't even divorced yet. And while Miss Thang might be getting it on with someone else, I suggest you take the high road, take your time, get YOUR shit together and when you're happy with who you are and where you are... then hit the dating scene. There is NOTHING wrong with fallback and regroup.
[/COLOR]
yeah, cougar....there is that......but i'm just thinking if he says that the relationship is loveless, all he has to overcome is the danger of wallowing in his lonliness. he's basically over the love thing. I say get out there fast because that will take his mind off of
Originally posted by lumberjim
....... will take his mind off of..
you forgot to finish the sentence. Having money? Control of the remote? What?
...sorry, I was abducted by aliens...been gone for 4 1/2 weeks, but when I got back, I see almost the same time on my clock......wow. you should see the moons of Jupiter right around sunset...woooo-wee!
-to continue:
......take his mind off of the rejection he must feel.
and yes, definately take the high road.
All of this assumes that, as cougar alludes to, you are yourself at this time.....ARE YOU?
Ljim
I'm coming around. When Syc and I went to Atlantic City on Saturday, I had great moments of clarity and felt like I was large and in charge.
I'm a dude in transition anyway. Before this whole thing, I was losing weight, and my goal was to get more confident and then upgrade all my bass gear, and start looking for a band to play out with.
Dunno if it was flat-out mid-life crisis stuff. Don't care, I'm still gonna do it and I'm still excited as hell by the idea.
What I think is that I haven't been me for years, and now the real me is going to return, with a vengeance, to kick ass and take names and chew bubblegum.
However, this whole "date" thing is totally foreign to me... I never really dated much. I've always just found girls/women to kinda latch onto. (Note to self: this might not be the best approach)
Originally posted by Undertoad
But here's the good part: the next woman I hook up with is going to downright adore me, worship me, respect me, praise me and love me, because you people tell me I deserve it, and I believe you, and I'm never ever ever going to make this mistake again.
Look forward to that story when I write in in 2009.
Toad - I already think all of these things of you.
The toilet seat - lid and everything down. Nothing is more icky to find a child playing with toys in the toilet.
Toilet paper - sits on the counter next to the toilet on top of various magazines.
Perfect guy - Heck if I know. I've got my BF for now - he seems to work.
I'm a dude in transition anyway. Before this whole thing, I was losing weight, and my goal was to get more confident and then upgrade all my bass gear, and start looking for a band to play out with.
Look out groupies...oh, the humanity!;)
Yeah, I never liked the idea of dating, either. The whole idea is stupid. Why should I want to get into an intimate relationship with someone I don't know?
My strategy has always been to get to know the person first. The sex and intimacy usually grows from there after a while, but the bonds are stronger because you were friends first.
Conversely, sometimes it's hard to look romantically at a person if they've been your friend for so long.
Do what works; neither way is "right" or "wrong". Dating has its bonuses, as does letting the relationships grow from friendships.
Originally posted by Undertoad
I'm coming around. When Syc and I went to Atlantic City on Saturday, I had great moments of clarity and felt like I was large and in charge.
For real...Toad was in the zone. We had a real good time...didn't talk about the whole divorce situation too too much. I tried to keep the focus more on Toad post-divorce.
However, this whole "date" thing is totally foreign to me... I never really dated much. I've always just found girls/women to kinda latch onto. (Note to self: this might not be the best approach)
Yeah, you know...I never dated a whole lot either. I would just meet someone and we would click. Though Rho and I were friends for about 3-4 months before we started dating.
Just take your time, get the fuck out more, and start meeting peeps. It'll come to ya...that, or I'll set you up with classy escorts.
For now, just worry about getting YOU up to snuff. There will be plenty of time for dating later.
Originally posted by OnyxCougar
[COLOR=indigo]I don't think dating so soon is a good idea. Putting yourself out there when you aren't whole isn't fair for you or the women you may speak to. [/COLOR]
Depending on the person, and the amount of damage already being borne, sometimes a little bit of emergency repair is needed before one can honestly evaluate and then do the necessary work to get one's head in order for a committed relationship.
Dating allows you to do that. The fact that someone shows interest in you, and perhaps will agree to some intimate contact in the course of said dating, can be a tremendous bolster to a damaged ego and/or broken heart. Sure, it is only temporary, but until you can have some practical demonstration of your inherent desireability (for some reason, people seem to base a large part of their self worth on feedback from others), it is really difficult to have the proper balance of emotions and insight needed to take larger steps toward a healthy head and heart.
Summary? Getting laid can really pick up your spirits and make you feel like a man again after you've been dumped.
Originally posted by dave
Conversely, sometimes it's hard to look romantically at a person if they've been your friend for so long.
Retard beat me to it, but exactly. If you become friends with someone first, you might be less likely to jeopardize that friendship for romance.
Me personally, I was always willing to take the risk. My rationale was always "Life's too short to take the chance." And it cost me a few dear friends, but then again, I had some very good relationships, including the one I'm in now.
I just hope you're not translating "divorce" to "failure," Tony. Judging from your description of the marraige, your life will only improve once the cheese-grater-to-the-brain effects are past. In that sense, this is not failure at all, rather it is the most significant progress toward bettering your life you've seen in a while. You'll have to take a few bites of the shit sandwich occasionally, but most real progress is hard-won.
I have had several friends who have been in unrewarding relationships and marraiges... not necessarily the fault of either party. Even from the outside I can see this. I make it a point never to poison the relationships, but when the relationship dies of natural causes, I quietly celebrate for the friend whose life is about to improve.
oops...hit the wrong button.....started a new thread called hot pastrami....sorry!
here's what i meant to post:
""""""
right on.....that's it....and that's all.......
oh, and make sure to brush after the shit sandwich!
Ljim
""""""""""""
Cool! Toads gonna rock out. What kinda music are you thinkin about?
oooooooooohhh! I play guitar! I'm in Pa! OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOhhhhhhhhhh!
who else!?
I can see it now:
~~~~This weekend at the Tower: Meatloaf with opening act "The Cellar" featuring Undertoad!
PS: UNDERTOAD:
noun. A form of anxiety, the chief feature of which is an overarching fear of the unknown in general and one's personal mortality in particular.
Example Citation:
"[Timothy Findley's] genuine self-doubt is forever near the surface, threatening to pull him down, and if not destroy him, silence him for good. This is his personal undertoad.
—Quest (as quoted by Anne Soukhanov in Word Watch)
Backgrounder:
The word undertoad comes from the phrase Under Toad which was coined by John Irving in his book The World According to Garp. In the book, the youngest child, Walt, is constantly being warned to "watch out for the undertow" while playing in the surf, but he mishears the word as Under Toad:
Garp...realized that all these years Walt had
been dreading a giant toad, lurking offshore,
waiting to suck him under and drag him out to
sea. The terrible Under Toad.
Subject Category:
Sociology - Anger and Anxiety
Posted on July 21, 1997
Don't know yet...! People my age tend to wind up in oldies cover bands, but I could be happy playing anything except death metal.
Jim, have you played out before?
(The Garp bit is exactly where I took the name from.)
Originally posted by lumberjim
yeah, bruce, yeah.
that is, you shouldn't use this as a medium to communicate with sharon.
oh, bullcrap. use it if ya want, UT. people communicate theraputically in group..or moderated...situations all the time. just because this is cyber doesn't invalidate it.
Originally posted by Undertoad
People my age...
You can cut that talk right the fuck out! :) I must be reading too many Dave posts.
Originally posted by Griff
You can cut that talk right the fuck out! :) I must be reading too many Dave posts.
What the fuck are you talking about, old fart?
Originally posted by Griff
Cool! Toads gonna rock out.
Talk about your GTG opportunities ... I'd appreciate it if you try to book into venues where they don't metal detect at the door ...
Hey, what about the possibility of a Cellar Jam band. Lumberjim might not have been too far off an idea, even if only to have an excuse to hang out and noodle around.
I'm way rusty, but do have current access to Native American Courting Flute, Chinese bamboo flute, and an assortment of frame drums including a cheap-ass bodrhain (and some rattles shaped like fruits).
yeah, i'm ok to jam, but not good enough to play out......I work too many hours too. ( car business)
who's the drummer?
I have a drum machine, along with Wolf's assortment.
I write lyrics and "sing"...I'd be down with it.
If we can figure out what to do about the delay, I could play guitar synth over the Internet.
We'd then be a Broadband Jam Band.
[COLOR=indigo]I can sing, play keyboards, and some guitar. All I can bring is my voice, tho.[/COLOR]
I'm in for general background vocals and simple harmonies.
Here's something I read today about relationships that I thought was very well said by one Dr. Stephen A. Mitchell.
"The cultivation of romance in relationships requires two people who are fascinated by the ways in which, individually and together, they generate forms of life they hope they can count on. It entails a tolerance of the fragility of those hopes, woven together from realities and fantasies, and an appreciation of the ways in which, in the rich density of contemporary life, realities often become fantasies and fantasies often become reality."
I wish i'd known about this place when my fiance dumped me.
I was on deployment in New Zealand. She played up, enjoyed it so much she gave me the arse (and genital warts courtesy of her new boyfriend) .
I could have done with a support network then but time became my friend.
I'm okay with myself now although i still struggle with the timing when trying to introduce the topic of STD's into the courtship process.
I spend my time now cultivating as many friendships as i can.
The kind of help and support needed during this type of crisis is seldom found in just one friend.
I also set (after the dumping) a bunch of achievable goals (physical and mental ) so, even though my thoughts were crazy, i was still getting results toward recovery.
I can still remember the day i realised that not only did i feel good physically but i was in a good mood as well. i kinda woke up and looked down and wondered where my gut had gone.
Joining a tennis club also helped.
At first i didn't want to burden my friends but i found they were excited to help ease the burden and some of the best companionship came from the least likely people.
Good luck UT
May the hand of justice of the universe have seen to it that hers are WORSE.
If you're talking to me Wolf then cheers for the sentiment. Guys are basically unnaffected but girls have to have regular tests forever to facilitate early detection of cervical cancer.
In an ironic twist, this served to alleviate the grief associated with a long term relationship breakup.
I'm just being glib as i'd have preferred the extended grief over the alternative, of course.
I gotta admit i was quite surprised and relieved to see a response to my post. I imagined a lot of sharp breath intakes and raised eyebrows followed by a subconscious decision to abandon this thread.
Actually, my first response on reading your post was "ohmigods, the poor sonovabeetch" followed almost immediately by "hope hers were a lot worse."
Thanks. Not to put you on the spot but at what point during courtship would you like to be informed of your suitor's um.. baggage?
That's a tricky one. I'd just say "before sex".
Well, Monday and Tuesday were met with no lingering low emotional points and no outbursts of irrational anger, and I'm more optimistic than ever this morning, looking forward to my new life.
Having this thread here has definitely helped, both in getting good words from people and in writing down what I thought was going on.
To surviving and thriving, onward to 2004.
(lifting my glass)
To Undertoad, kicking ass and taking names.
A La Salute!
Sounds like your in the groove, Skinny. :D
BTW, when you get this orchestra together, I'd like to volunteer for groupie control in that I've had experience.
There was a band called Children of the Night that played this area and the Jersey shore. A couple of the guys stayed at my house when they played in this area. Another band called Hyjinx would practice at my house once or twice a week. Both bands caused groupies to show up at my door, sometimes when they (bands) weren't even here.
Congrats to Toad for making it through a couple of days!!! My hats off to you man....... if I was wearing a hat......
For the Cellar band - I offer to do vocals of some sort. I'm more of a ballad/lounge act type of voice.....
How do you get this kinds of tenants, and what do they pay in rent.
Musicians? Pay? Bwahahahahahahahaha.:haha: :haha:
RE: Bands: I have two rather nice (if somewhat antique) synths., and a rack to play them on.
Originally posted by xoxoxoBruce
. . . BTW, when you get this orchestra together, I'd like to volunteer for groupie control . . .
Well then, sign me up for groupie! ;)
Originally posted by MaggieL
RE: Bands: I have two rather nice (if somewhat antique) synths., and a rack to play them on.
I know we've had this discussion before, but what antique synths do you have again, Maggie? I'm somewhat of an antique synth fan.
Originally posted by Elspode
I know we've had this discussion before, but what antique synths do you have again, Maggie? I'm somewhat of an antique synth fan.
I used the term "antique" jokingly; they're not real classics...although the CS1x has a lot of classic Moog and Arp sounds in it.
What I do have is on each Yamaha CS1x and PSR 510. I don't have my Paia stuff anymore...that truly would be antique. The closest I get to genuine antiques is I have the Wendy Carlo Boxed set of CD/CD-rom....lots of good Moog history in there.
http://voicenet.com/~maggie and take the "music" link...a page that desparately needs updating.
Hey, it is all about the sound, not the geek factor.
Okay. It is a little bit about the geek factor. Really, the thing I like about old analogue is that you can tweak sounds in real time, without diving through a bunch of menus. But I also love modern digital synths for their ease of use and the wonderfully complex patches they feature.
So why'd you part with the Paia? I got a 3620 along with the ARP 2600 I bought, but I sold the Paia because it wasn't compatible with my MiniMoog (also now sold for poverty reasons) and the 2600.
I'm always looking for a cheap CS1X in pawnshops. Yammy has made some real nice gear over the years. I'd love to find a CS 15 someday.
[COLOR=indigo]OK, I don't mean to nag (much) but where is the GTG thread?
[size=1]Unless of course, y'all don't want me there.... so you're hiding the thread... so I can't come and meet everyone.... *sniff*[/size]
Gah! That whole "taking stuff personal" thing grabbed ahold of me for a minute. Better now.
So...where was it again?
[/COLOR]
There are two: One in Home Base created by Dagney called "GTG idea". The other is in Cellar Comments & Suggestions created by me called "The next great Cellar GTG."
Originally posted by Elspode
Really, the thing I like about old analogue is that you can tweak sounds in real time, without diving through a bunch of menus. But I also love modern digital synths for their ease of use and the wonderfully complex patches they feature.
Well, the CS1x is called a "control synth" precicesly because of the knobology; it has six knobs (four dedicated to ADSR and filter parms, two programmable), a modulation wheel (like a pitch bender wheel, (which it also has) but configurable to mod other parameters, and has a jack for a pedal controller, also programmable as to parameter. Lots of realtime twiddling capablity there.
At the same time, the rest of the patching is pretty much digital; use the programming switches and memories, or beat it to death with SysExs on the MIDI port.
So why'd you part with the Paia? I got a 3620 along with the ARP 2600 I bought, but I sold the Paia because it wasn't compatible with my MiniMoog
Paias weren't compatible with *anything*. They were also the absolute dickens to tune (including a trimpot for *each* key on the keyboard), and thermally unstable as all hell. What they were on the good side was was *cheap*, and the synth equivilant to an Altair 8800. I had my Paia gear, built from kits in 1974-1975, years before I got my first computer, long about 1978 or so.
Paias were also very, very limited and hell to patch, using real (cheap) patch cords. Mine may still be hiding in the attic of my ex-s house...or may have been discarded long ago, I don't really know.
But I really want a Korg Karma....$1,400 at Sam Ash. All I need is a job.
She moved out yesterday.
I'm miserable as I go through the "depression" phase, but I know, my brain tells me, that it's not like other depression and it's temporary. It comes in waves and I cry as I see bits of our lives together that are no longer there; the missing furniture, everything off the refrigerator.
The dogs are confused. The boy didn't sleep on the bed last night, which is unusual for him. He slept downstairs until I woke up in the middle of the night and carried him up. The girl is clinging to me, following me everywhere.
But it's kind of expected. I know this would happen, and I look forward to the point where the house feels like it's completely my place.
And I went through the online personals, and you know, there are some awesome women out there, all literate and talented and cute and stuff.
[COLOR=indigo]This is the hardest time. The time between the leaving and the moving on. We're with you....[/COLOR]
I don't think you're ready for a replacement just yet. Be a shame to find a great prize and blow it because you're an emotional heap.
Standard business practice these days is to try out a bunch of temps. If they find a particularly good one, they make them an offer. ;)
That refrigerator was a mess anyway...
Love to the dogs. Was Bean trying to get along without Pearl, like you are getting along without your woman?
That refrigerator was a mess anyway...
Bwahahahahahahahaha.:D
Spread out! More space for you and the pups. Remark the territory, your territory. I think a bit of that depression deserves at least a smidge of rage, (this crap can be too contained, too civil- which is hard, and like it needs to be harder...) allow yourself unfiltered ventilation in the privacy of your own home, it can help. And you are moving on my friend.:)
Yeah, I have to go pee in various corners to make them mine.
Extra space for dog toys and DoDads or messes of you choice.:)
Online personals (or those you would find in City Paper)--caveat emptor. My success with them was alright, but there's nothing like just meeting that person accidentally.
See, you should start off slow. Slow in this case means picking up a college cutie. I see us hanging out in University City or on South Street in the near future.
After you get that out of your system, then you get that fine, mature, successful, in-need-of-sex thirtysomething. :D
Seriously though, you still need to take care of you first. Get yourself accustomed to having the house to yourself. Get some jobs lined up. Keep working on the diet. THEN worry about the ladies.
Syc's a lot smarter than he looks.;)
I never even picked up any of those cute college chix when I was IN college!
I could understand the attraction to a jowly paunchy 39-year-old if I was their professor and in charge of their grades, but uh...
Originally posted by Undertoad
..... a jowly paunchy 39-year-old ......
[size=3]<b> With those girls , it's all about what you can give them. Got any smoke?</b>[/size] :D
Or so I heard......from a friend.
I can't believe I'm saying this, but slang has a point there, Sheppsie.
There is a certain segment of younger females out there that dig older guys. They think of men their age as "immature." They want a smart sophisticated man to show 'em the ropes. Get yourself a couple of solid jobs, get a little cash flowing, and you're in.
Then you meet a nice co-ed, a few dates, maybe a couple of inexpensive meaningless gifts, and then...wang! Bang! Sweet poontang!
And after a little while, you'll tire of her relative immaturity, and/or she'll tire of you being "old." Then you drop her like a bad habit and get on with finding Miss Right.
It's damned near foolproof...unless you meet a nutjob. But then you have Wolf to take care of that...
Back to reality...
Whatever you do, don't go just looking for women. But DO look for opportunities where you might meet them.
In truth, I have never ever operated anywhere near that way, and I don't see the benefit in it.
If I just wanted to get laid, I think would hire a professional. I believe it would be cheaper, and higher in quality.
But I don't just want to get laid.
I've never operated that way myself either. And I know you're not just looking for sex, hence the last line of my previous post.
(And besides, we could have easily gotten you some bomb-ass pussy down in AC.)
Ok, this is more specifically what I'm talking about. This strategy was developed with the help of BroSlang.
My little bro was hanging out on campus one night with some dumb c*nt that was totally using him. He was putting up with the BS she dished out happily, which is totally not like him. "What the fuck are you doing" I asked him. "Getting a foothold into the StuckUpFineBitches sorority" he told me. "Shes a StuckUpFineBitch, thats the only reason I'm hanging with her. She knows that and so do I"
After a coupla weeks when he'd been around this c*nt's friends he was indeed in. She was a bitch but many of her friends were not. And they were all easy on the eyes.
This is as old as it gets but it still works for guys and gals. Find one that wants to hang with you as an "in". You dont have to spend tons of money, just make her happy for a while. She prolly burns through a bunch of guys. If shes just using you, you'll know it. Thats OK. You just want to be known in a given cliche so that you can compete without being some nameless possible axemurderer.
Famous BroSlang quote: You might think I'm an ass, but one of your friends is gonna <i>love</i> hangin with me baby.
Originally posted by Undertoad
If I just wanted to get laid, I think would hire a professional. I believe it would be cheaper, and higher in quality.
Given that I know many of the local professionals (in the sense of MY profession not theirs), I'd recommend against that option.
But I don't just want to get laid.
From a female perspective, I'll issue a hearty "Good for you" on that statement.
Don't, however, let yourself fall into the trap of becoming a martyr to your divorce (This may be primarily a female trait, but it can happen to guys too).
I'm sure he could find some high-class hooker and get a pretty good time out of it for just a few hundred bucks.
The problem is that this is inexplicably illegal and he might get busted.
When I'm president (Dave Ham 2016 - Take America Back!), I'll pardon everyone that's convicted on prostitution charges, pressure prosecutors to drop cases against those charged and champion legislation that makes it legal.
Vote Ham!
I have recently been made aware that there is a huge internet subculture of reviews of high-priced escorts, in which one could actually determine how they are at their job and what to expect and so forth.
These sites are for-pay, but you could get an idea of what they're doing from the samples. I didn't pay but I went to one of their banner advertisers. I browsed a few pages of sites of escort agencies that made it clear this is something that law enforcement just has no interest in pursuing. I mean christ, there were practically price lists on some of these sites.
I don't have that sort of semi-desperate need of human contact, but I think I understand it in those who do. And there is something honest about it. I do think if I went four or five years without, I would eventually pay the money and take my chances.
Heh, I wonder if anyone has done a study comparing the relative safety of "escorts" vs. picking up random chics that just want to get laid in bars?
Wait a minute... Isn't Syc running for pres. as well? Or is Syc running in '08 and therefore out of office by '16? What the hell, I'll vote for one of you bastards regardless...
Sycamore has no chance of ever getting elected because he is too liberal. My plan is to get on the Republican ticket but court liberal voters. A true "compassionate conservative".
I'd go, "what's the sense in making prostitution illegal when it's costing us money instead of making us a boatload in taxes?" Republicans would go "Damn, that's a good point." Bible thumpers would secretly breathe a sigh of relief, and the liberals would herald me as a champion of human rights. (As Carlin puts it - Selling is legal. Fucking is legal. Why isn't selling fucking legal?)
Then I'd work real hard to legalize marijuana, because even though I think drugs are a <b>bad</b> thing, I think the war on drugs is <b>worse</b>. What a waste of money and it doesn't even work. We're throwing money away. Hurrah! Thanks, NR. Real winner that one was.
Anyway, that's why I'm getting out all this asshole-ish-ness when I'm young - so I can be calm and collected later on, 'cause I'm gonna need it if I hope to make a dent in these huge roadblocks.
Dave, I'd vote for you at the drop of a hat. Shit, I'd pay real money just to see you in a political debate.
"In this afternoon's heated presidential debate, Mr. David Ham had this to say, as he levelled a finger at his cowering opponent: 'This pathetic smear upon he universe, ladies and gentlemen, is what happens when God has to work on deadlines.'"
Reuters (c) 2016
Where can I get a "Vote Ham!" button?
Where can I get a "Vote Ham!" button?
And a running mate named Eggs.;)
Obviously I would need to keep that to a minimum.
I believe most people have good intentions. For instance, gun control activists have <b>good intentions</b> (fewer dead people). They're just extremely mislead when it comes to achieving their goal, and they've been essentially brainwashed to the point of not ceding an inch, even when presented with facts that are contrary to their incorrect opinion. It's an amazing thing to see.
Originally posted by Whit
Or is Syc running in '08 and therefore out of office by '16?
I couldn't run in '08 if I wanted to...I'll only be 33.
I have no intention of running for political office...I don't think many folks would like my stances. Though I disagree with Dave's assertion, which I'll rebut shortly.
Originally posted by dave
Sycamore has no chance of ever getting elected because he is too liberal.
Maybe in 2003, yeah. But the country shifts often enough that I would just have to find the right time to slip in there.
The same with you...no way you'd get elected right now with your current stances. But if people continue to become more socially liberal, you have a good shot in 13 years.
I'd go, "what's the sense in making prostitution illegal when it's costing us money instead of making us a boatload in taxes?" Republicans would go "Damn, that's a good point." Bible thumpers would secretly breathe a sigh of relief, and the liberals would herald me as a champion of human rights. (As Carlin puts it - Selling is legal. Fucking is legal. Why isn't selling fucking legal?)
That stance would probably win you Democrats and liberals, but I don't know if you could ever get that past Republicans. You'd wind up causing a conundrum a la the state sodomy laws, and we don't even need to discuss the Bible-thumpers.
Originally posted by xoxoxoBruce
And a running mate named Eggs.;)
First name "Eggs". Last name: "Ackley".
Originally posted by xoxoxoBruce
And a running mate named Eggs.;)
..running as Green Party candidates.:angel:
2016? Hell I'll be dead by then. But I'll vote today!:)
TOAD!
She's out, I assume? how is single life? sittin around scratchin yourself? farting whenever, wherever? leaving that toiliet seat up at will? Strutting about fantastically in your boxers? enjoy it, but don't wallow for too long!
hope you are feelin good!
From what UT has said to me over the past week, he sounds like he's doing well. I'll be over at his house Sunday to witness the destruction first-hand. :)
Thanks lj. She moved out 6 days ago. I'm finding it's absolutely fine, because she spent so little time with me and spent so little love on me, that I have low expectations for it in my life. This makes it easy to get on from day to day.
And this is my house now!
Unless I can't keep it, which I am slowly coming to realize won't happen just by hustling and getting more business. There is not enough business to be got. I am going to look for other work.
Today I submitted a resume at ITT Tech. It would be a fine way to make enough money, teaching Linux and networking and such.
No Sheppsie! Nonononono! Say it ain't so Toad! A real job? What the fuck?!
Originally posted by Undertoad
Thanks lj. She moved out 6 days ago. I'm finding it's absolutely fine, because she spent so little time with me and spent so little love on me, that I have low expectations for it in my life. This makes it easy to get on from day to day.
And this is my house now!
Unless I can't keep it, which I am slowly coming to realize won't happen just by hustling and getting more business. There is not enough business to be got. I am going to look for other work.
Today I submitted a resume at ITT Tech. It would be a fine way to make enough money, teaching Linux and networking and such.
If you want to do a little networking, the ITEC trade show is coming to Valley Forge Convention Center Nov 12-13. You can get a free exhibits pass by following the instructions below:
REGISTER TODAY and qualify for a Free Philadelphia ITEC Exhibits Pass (a $50 value), courtesy of AITP – Philadelphia Chapter. Click on the registration link and enter Priority Code PHLITP:
http://www.goitec.com/reg/phl1/.Originally posted by Undertoad
Today I submitted a resume at ITT Tech. It would be a fine way to make enough money, teaching Linux and networking and such.
Well, if you manage to get their attention, please point out my resume to them (I've submitted it to them and they kinda ignored it).
I'd love to teach Java; maybe now that I have my SCJP they might belive I could do it.
Resume link:
http://voicenet.com/~maggie/mslresume.htmlMight as well put everything in one thread...
Yesterday the other shoe fell for Sharon: her Tucson boyfriend dropped her. He won't be visiting, won't be moving up in December, seems to have decided he prefers minimum wage on the ranch. She fell apart and drove here directly from work in the middle of the day to cry at me. (She said I should start another thread to mock and laugh at her. This is not what this post is.)
I listened patiently as she wailed about what a loser she felt like for being dropped before her divorce was even done. I told her I was a really poor support system in this particular case. I thought about how anyone else would kick her the fuck out. Then I told her she was a beautiful person with a lot to offer to prospective guys, and that she should stay positive, etc.
So, two conclusions: one, I'm completely "over" her, in that I care about what happens to her but it doesn't affect me personally or emotionally. Two, Sharon has little concept how relationships work, and she will probably have a tough time of it for a while.
I woke up to news that my best job opportunity dried up, and I have great concern for my own situation... but none for hers. We will both go through trying times, of different types, before we find what we're looking for. And apparently that's how life works.
[COLOR=indigo]What goes around, comes around.
I'm glad you're "over" her, and I hope she finds what she's looking for. Somewhere else. [/COLOR]
Originally posted by Undertoad
I woke up to news that my best job opportunity dried up, and I have great concern for my own situation... but none for hers. We will both go through trying times, of different types, before we find what we're looking for. And apparently that's how life works.
want me to teach you how to sell cars?
This isn't the typical diolog I would have imagined from a couple in process of divorce. That's good though.
On the lighter side, I could prolly get you in at the plant.
That really sucks. Without a man to tell her she's great, how will she know she's great?
Perhaps she isn't as rehabilitated as you originally claimed.
Thanks for the job notions guys but I think even with the best training, I would be the very worst car salesman ever, setting new record lows for sales. (On the other hand if you have an online division I would be the best ever. Hmm.)
toad, you may be the biggest person i've ever virtually met. In your shoes, I think I would have done a touchdown dance, and bounced her right out the door.
either that or you're a really good liar who is inwardly spiking the ball over the goal post!
I' think I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, though, considering the high regard these fine folks you have accumulated seem hold you in.
unless......they're all a bunch of really good liars too, and are inwardly resentful of the power you hold over them and are just shining you on..........
nee neee nee neee nee neee nee neee......(twilight zone music)
:eek: :confused:
Originally posted by Undertoad
She fell apart and drove here directly from work in the middle of the day to cry at me.
So lemme see if I get this. She sticks a knife between your shoulderblades and leaves you for dead, THEN, when her sorry ass life blows up in her face, she comes to you, tries to pull the knife out of your back so you can better focus on her problems only to discover that its already out (thankyouvurymuch) and healing nicely then she asks you to take the knife out of HER BACK!
:angry:
GOOD GAWD ALLMIGHTY!!! :vomit:
I'm real sorry bud, but that is the most pathetic fucking thing I have EVER head of.
BUT, on the bright side, your life is looking up (minor setbacks and challenges notwithstanding) and hers... well who fucking cares about hers (I realize you do but you are a better man than I).
Peace, prosperity and happiness await those with a kind spirit and a wary eye.
I don't think it's quite like that, Beestie.
Originally posted by xoxoxoBruce
And a running mate named Eggs.;)
BWHAHAHAHAHA.........*snif*
STILL LMAO.
Originally posted by dave
I don't think it's quite like that, Beestie.
I guess I should just stay out of it then.
The post from which I pulled UT's quote sure hit a hot button with me - I've seen it so many times and its so Fing unfair. I have tried to keep up with this thread but it appears, then, that I missed something. :confused:
Actually Beestie, I can see your reasoning. However, speaking as a non-Philly cellarite I've picked up info in different threads. For instance, the ex in this case was involved in planning the surprise party. Obviously both are trying to stay on good terms.
I think she took the "still friends" idea to far here. Juju maybe right in that she's not as 'rehabilitated' as she claimed. Doesn't matter though, the fit has already hit the shan. Ut's getting in better shape, mentally and physically, all the time. He's ready to move on.
Continued good wishes and strength to you, Toad, my man.
Not unlike ThisOleMiss' son, Sharon made her choices and now has to deal with the consequences.
There are plenty of other fish in the virtual dating sea. Eventually she will learn to discriminate between the real and the unreal.
The nuthouse isn't looking for anyone in IT right now (although we could desperately use someone competent. I do NOT trust any MIS guys who don't own a home computer. It's unnatural.) but if you are of a mind to try nutwrangling, do let me know.
it's just a matter of interpretation. it could be seen to be like that from these posts.....however, toad wouldn't be with karen if she didn't have any redeeming qualities....looks like there will still be friendship and respect after the divorce (A.D.)
still, i was pissed off the first time i read about it too, beestie. and i'd just like you all to know that im over it now, and feel good about the seperation. ok? ok.
- im such a dick *chuckle*
First of all Beestie, nothing ever stated that life should be "fair". Fair is just a word. The idea behind it is nice and all, but it can't be made to apply to life. Life just isn't fair. And thinking about it as "unfair" isn't productive. You need to grab the world by the balls and make it yours.
I understand, too, that it sounds shitty. But look at it another way, Sharon doesn't have the Cellar for support. Tony is probably the person that knows her best, and I'm sure that deep down, she loves him. From the whole birthday thing (I was there), I could tell that she, at the very least, cares deeply about him. And because I know Tony, I know that he cares about her. They might not be romantically compatible or ideal soulmates, but they are two people who have spent a lot of their lives together and relationships like that don't die easy. There will always be some feelings there.
Sharon went to someone she knows and trusts for comfort. It's an awkward situation for sure (I had an ex girlfriend call me up and start crying because things weren't working out and she missed me - that was definitely kinda weird). Sharon is a person that's trying to do what's right for her while keeping Tony in consideration. She's done for him a hell of a lot better than a lot of people would do for their ex's, and there's something to be said for that.
Is Sharon doing the right thing? Under the circumstances and in my personal opinion, she probably is. She's not perfect, but she's giving Tony a chance to find "the one" while she goes off and pursues the same, and she isn't being a huge bitch about it.
If I've learned one thing from this whole thread and talking to Tony (and watching them interact at the birthday get-together), it's that Sharon is a good person trying hard to do the right thing, even though it hurts someone else.
(Tony's still my main man, though. I don't mean to play "Devil's Advocate". Just trying to make my opinion clear.)
The Tone, what do you think - am I on the mark? Am I off?
Originally posted by wolf
I do NOT trust any MIS guys who don't own a home computer. It's unnatural.
It might be OK for a certain type of person.. sort of the "I futz with computers all day at work, don't let me near one after I get home." On certain days I can imagine myself like this--I mean, for years I was probably the only Webmaster[SIZE=1]*[/SIZE] in captivity who didn't have a personal web page. I probably wouldn't now if it weren't for the need to supply pics of the kids to my parents on a semi-regular basis. (UT has explained why in the classic Pet Web Page/Rock quote.)
But you're right, in most cases it would be evidence of derangement.
[SIZE=1]*[/SIZE]This was my actual title. I'm not particularly fond of the term.
From my point of view as a middle aged woman who has witnessed several women friends leave their relationships searching for more...This is a good thing for her. Its been strange to hear about UT's thing, and its all around me here.
Maybe its the sexual surge at 40, or maybe its just the crossroads, you feel its not right and you want to make the most of it. Life is too short. Not knowing Sharon, but knowing other women in similar situations, this big life change is thrilling and terrifying. The guy isnt why she left. The guy was a safety and gave her courage. Now shes got to work without a net. I think, scared as she is to go solo, she will be so much the better, stronger, and in the long run, happier for it.
But UT was the net for so many years. He was home and that's a hard reflex to change. I am sure it is incredibly hard to leave that.
Originally posted by dave
She's done for him a hell of a lot better than a lot of people would do for their ex's, and there's something to be said for that.
As an outsider, not really knowing either of you in real life, I totally agree.
The majority of the "happily married" couples in my family dont have the kind of consideration for one another I witnessed at the party.
Cheers to both of you.
Originally posted by warch
The guy was a safety and gave her courage. Now shes got to work without a net. I think, scared as she is to go solo, she will be so much the better, stronger, and in the long run, happier for it.
But UT was the net for so many years. He was home and that's a hard reflex to change. I am sure it is incredibly hard to leave that.
Sounds about right from the people I have seen breakup.
And having known the two of them (not so much in recent years) it makes sense that they both still care about each other -- maybe I'm a romantic but I believe that people
often fall into a love that they never fall out of even if they do learn that they just can't live with each other anymore.
As someone said earlier, this may be the best that either of them can do and, given the circumstances, it's a hell of a lot better than many people I have seen who literally end up at each others' throats.
Be proud of yourself, UT!
God, this is all so touching. I feel all warm and fuzzy inside. I feel like I should keep coming here just in case anthing horrible ever happens and I desperately need friends. People really CAN be nice! :)
maybe I'm a romantic but I believe that people often fall into a love that they never fall out of even if they do learn that they just can't live with each other anymore.
Damn straight. :thumb: