It's football time again...

Ah yes...time for another year of sitting around on Sundays, drinking, watching football, losing my mind, and getting another free meal out of Hubris. :)

How wonderful...the Rams are the first game on today on FOX here in Philadelphia. God's Team took a beating last year, but it looks like the Rams of old might be back in the house. And they're playing the Giants, so a Rams win only helps the Eagles.

Oooh...and the Ravens are the first game on CBS. I don't think it's gonna be a good year for them, but one can hope...it's not like that Super Bowl team of 3 years ago was that good either. Rams are better though, so Rho will be delegated to the bedroom TV. :D (Griff, they're playing the Steelers, so you might be interested in that game, if you can get it.)

Eagles are on Monday Night Football. The defense is dropping like flies...too many injuries. I see a good season ahead...I dunno if they'll go 12-4 again, but one can dream.

I haven't followed pre-season much this year, so I don't know much about the predictions. I know the Rams were picked to win the NFC West, as their only real challenge is San Francisco.

Here's what Michael Wilbon of the Washington Post picks:

And now, the fearless picks. In the NFC, the Rams, Packers, Bucs and Giants will win their divisions. The Eagles and Saints will earn the wild-card spots. Favre will be the MVP. In the AFC, the Raiders, Steelers, Colts and Dolphins will win their divisions. The Chiefs and Ravens will earn wild cards. Portis and Williams will rush for 2,000 yards and Williams will be the MVP.

Tampa Bay will repeat by beating the Steelers in the Super Bowl.

Hmmm...he wasn't very good at predicting when I watched him on TV in Washington, so we'll see.

Well Kurt Warner looked like the Warner of last year, not the Warner of the Bowl year. 3 lost fumbles, 1 INT, looked just terrible most of the time.

They just announced he might have had a concussion after the first fumble. That doesn't explain why he looked so terrible up to that point.

The concussion was confirmed...and that was 6 total fumbles.

His numbers, all in all, don't look that bad: 34 for 54, 342 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT. And he was holding up pretty well, given that he took a pounding. But those fumbles...and Faulk was completely ineffective today. And why oh why are we only running with 3 WR's? Defense was decent, offensive line is concerning...this was not a problem until last year.

Maddox was 21-of-29 for 260 yards 3 touchdowns no interceptions. Art Modell's team cannot lose enough games. Now if the Steelers could just stay out of nightclub shootings through January...

Giants over Steelers in the Super Bowl - there's my call.

Four turnovers forced against the Rams for 13 points total, Warner sacked six times, Barber - 146 yards rushing, Toomer averaged 49 yards/reception, Shockey 12 yards/reception, Collins went 14/26 for 202 yards and no INTs...this is it. This is the year. Steelers even look like they could make it to the finish too.

Man...a smack-around of the Steelers in the Super Bowl...that would just be a dream come true.

Priest Holmes will win the rushing title, no doubt about it. He's fast, smart, he jukes like Marcus Allen, he's got an overwhelmingly superior offensive line in front of him and he's got Tony Richardson lead blocking much of the time...and Tony is one of the best blocking backs I've ever seen.

Chiefs win the AFC West, though. A much improved defense and a high-octane offense make a combination that Oakland can't beat this year.

Then the Chiefs lose in the first round of the playoffs, and Dick Vermiel retires for real this time.

Rams go 8-8, and people in St. Louis (and Sycamore) start wondering how they fell so far so fast. :D

Originally posted by Chewbaccus
...Steelers in the Super Bowl - there's my call.

Four turnovers ...for ... Shockey ...is it. This is the year. Steelers ... make it to the finish ...

Man...the Steelers in the Super Bowl...that would just be a dream come true.

Couldn't have said it better myself. ;)

You work for the Tribune-Review, don't you Griff?

The Eagles game made me want to hurl. I don't think I have much else to say.

First games are sometimes not representative of the whole season...

I am begging the people who kidapped Donavan McNabb free him! Free McNabb!

Hmmm...it seems that my Chiefs are going to be playing the likely favorite of many Cellar denizens, the Steelers this Sunday.

Any friendly wagers? Hmmm...? The current line is KC by 3.5 over Pittsburgh. I'll take KC and give 3 points for a twenty spot, payable via PayPal...

Originally posted by Undertoad
First games are sometimes not representative of the whole season...

Yeah, I know it's just one game... but they looked useless. Even if you stipulate that the Bucs got 2 touchdowns off of highly unlikely circus catches that were otherwise well-defended, the Eagles offense did nothing. If they basically lloked good & were just not finishing off drives to score, I'd be a little more optimistic.

Eagles-Bucs: Poor offense. Donovan almost made Kurt look great. Make no mistake, the Bucs are fierce. Their defense has been tough for a while now, but Monday night...damn.

I don't think the Eagles will do as well as last year. They didn't do much during the off-season. And the defense is not as strong as it was last year. But yeah, it's still only one game: I'll give the Eagles a wild card at 10-6, behind the Giants in the East.

Mike needs to pull his head out of his ass though if he thinks the Giants are that good.

Ep Ep Ep...those Chiefs. Perennial disappointments. Remember Christian Okoye? Yeah...you MIGHT get a wild card.

Dick Vermeil is the anti-christ. I hate him.

Rams...*shrugs*...10-6, they'll play the Eagles or Packers in the wild card.

No, no...Al Davis is the Antichrist. Dick Vermiel's final designation in the book of Revelations is as yet undetermined. Chiefs go all the way, he's Jesus. Chiefs bomb in the first round of the playoffs, he's Satan himself.

Originally posted by sycamore
Mike needs to pull his head out of his ass though if he thinks the Giants are that good.

Should I pass this message along to ESPN?

If the Giants win the Super Bowl, you get a real Philadelphia cheesesteak on me.

Originally posted by Elspode
Hmmm...it seems that my Chiefs are going to be playing the likely favorite of many Cellar denizens, the Steelers this Sunday.

Any friendly wagers? Hmmm...? The current line is KC by 3.5 over Pittsburgh. I'll take KC and give 3 points for a twenty spot, payable via PayPal...

Counter proposal. No points. Loser has to start a thread by writing a sincere sounding Ode to the winners ball club. :)

I accept your proposal, Griff! Start writing! :cool:

The Steelers didn't get beaten as badly as the score of 41 to 20 might indicate. But they did get beaten.

Eh, I don't think it counts now...you didn't initially accept.

That was a hell of a game, from what I watched. They ran that scoreboard up real nice in the first half.

And let the QB controversy start again in St. Louis--Bulger had a solid game, picking up from last year. I'll have to read the Post-Dispatch and listen to St. Louis radio tomorrow.

Yeah, darn it...I forget to look in on this thread last night. It would have been fun to have a nice little written tribute from Griff to my boys in red.

It wouldn't have been real hard for me to do the same for the Steelers...they're my third favorite team, actually, behind the Chiefs and Green Bay.

Thanks fer the lawyerin' T$. I'll give Patrick another shot at it in the AFC championship game. That was a pretty exciting game but my guys really stank it up in the turnover dept. What I like about the new offense is that they can comeback on anybody, what I don't like (so far) is their inability to run the ball but its a new line so we'll see what happens.

Holmes really can kick butt, can't he? For a while there it looked like the Steelers were trying to tire him out by making him run for long yardages. :) They'll stuff him next time.

Truluck got a big write up in my alumni newspaper a while back as the first guy in forever to go from Cortland to the NFL. Pretty cool going from Chugger Davis Field to the Show.

Eagles: it appears that McNabb has suddenly lost his ability to be a quarterback at all. It's like he's been replaced with an evil anti-McNabb. Suddenly he can't complete simple 10-yard passes to his open TE. Obvious blitzes confuse him. He overlooks open receivers and relies on his "out" option too often. He finished off his day by throwing the most obvious pick he's ever thrown, something he never ever does.

Originally posted by Griff
Holmes really can kick butt, can't he? For a while there it looked like the Steelers were trying to tire him out by making him run for long yardages. :) They'll stuff him next time.

Nobody's figured him out so far. He's got great moves, and he is really, really quick out of the hole. I keep scratching my head over how anyone let this gem get away in the first place. Chiefs just rewrote his contract to reflect his stature and performance in our backfield. I think it safe to say that Priest Holmes is living comfortably when he's not making d-backs look like they're standing still.

Just felt the need to point out that my Chiefs, after a tough defensive battle with a very scrappy Baltimore Ravens team, are now 4-0.

That was luck...the Ravens fucked themselves, particularly with that interception by McCleon.

Bulger had a good game today, Rams win...of course, they were playing Arizona. Good for morale though, given how hated the Cardinals have been since Bidwell took them to the desert 15 years ago.

Wow! What a stinker by the Steelers today, almost enough to make me join the sports slangcott but I can't.... not with the evil twins of warchavia coming into NY.

I see the kidnappers returned McNabb today.

Originally posted by Griff
I see the kidnappers returned McNabb today.

Return schmeturn. The majority of their yards and all of their TDs were rushing. McNabb's still tied up in the broom closet, Reid just gave the stand-in new marching orders.

Still. Washington, Philadelphia, and Dallas all won today. I hate this week already, and it's barely Monday.

Originally posted by sycamore
That was luck...the Ravens fucked themselves, particularly with that interception by McCleon.

Luck, schmuck. We won the game on yet another runback for a TD by the hottest kick-returner in the NFL today, and maybe ever, Dante Hall.

Okay, there was some luck involved. It was bad luck on the part of the Ravens. They've got a badass football team, and with another year under their belts together with their rookie QB, they're gonna be awesome. But this year, we won.

Originally posted by Griff
I see the kidnappers returned McNabb today.

So, how about that Rush Limbaugh? I knew his mouth was big, but I didn't think it was big enough to get his foot into it all the way up to his hip!

Whoopsy! I love it when Rush says stupid shit!

I like it when egomaniacs step in it. I didn't hear the comments that got him busted, would they have brought down a Democrat?

Race is the political silver bullet, Griff. One round kills anyone.

Correction...race is a silver bullet that only works on non-minority werewolves. Any minority is allowed to be as racist as they wish, and it is written off as justifiable.

Racism is a one-way street.

Eh...are you being facetious there, Ep?

Originally posted by Elspode
Correction...race is a silver bullet that only works on non-minority werewolves. Any minority is allowed to be as racist as they wish, and it is written off as justifiable.

Racism is a one-way street.

I'll buy that. "The (pick any minority) are running down the neighborhood", is racist, politically incorrect and not allowed. But "Whitey is holding me back" is perfectly ok.

Originally posted by sycamore
Eh...are you being facetious there, Ep?

Only slightly...I could be persuaded to change my point of view if someone could show me a few examples of successfully made cases of reverse discrimination.

My standard example of my perception of the current state of affairs goes something like this:

What would happen if someone decided to start a White Heritage Week? We would honor George Washington and Thomas Edison and other pioneers of the Caucasian race. We'd have a big square dance, and serve a lot of foods like grilled cheese sandwiches and potato chips. The schools would spend a week featuring special classroom units on famous White people and their contributions to bettering the White race...and so on and so on.

Can you honestly tell me that such a thing would not be immediately labelled as racist and an affront to ethnic groups everywhere?

Yet various ethnic groups have *exactly* this sort of thing going on all the time, and it is thought to be a great thing. Why the distinction, then, when they are essentially the same event with only the recognized group being changed?

I want you all to understand that I am *not* a racist. It is really hard to be a Pagan racist for one thing. However, I get tired of shying away from inequities in our societal structure simply because it is politically incorrect to even mention them. Anyone who thinks that Blacks cannot be prejudiced against Whites, or Hispanics against Jews, or whatever pairing you wish to name, is being hopelessly naieve. Yet such prejudices generally go unacknowledged unless they are being perpetrated by the perceived "group in power" against the perceived "oppressed minority."

So, in that sense, yeah, Syc, I was serious.

For starters, Ep, I think "reverse discrimination" is a nonsense construct. There's just "discrimination," period.

I don't disagree with you in that there are instances of the current minorities discriminating against whites. However, I would argue that there are far fewer incidents of this, simply b/c minorities already know what it's like to face racial discrimination by whites. This is probably why you don't hear of many situations involving discrimination against whites, if any. Though I do have one example for you: The black guy that went on a shooting rampage in Pittsburgh 3 years ago.

But if anything, I think you will find more examples of a) discrimination within one's own race and b) Discrimination between the various minorities (e.g. Koreans vs. blacks in LA in the '90s) than against whites.

Yet various ethnic groups have *exactly* this sort of thing going on all the time, and it is thought to be a great thing. Why the distinction, then, when they are essentially the same event with only the recognized group being changed?

Now hold up, Ep. "Ethnic" and "racial" are two different constructs. Please clarify this for me, and I'll respond further.

I can't dispute that ethnicity and race are separate constructs, and I cannot think of another strictly racially-based series of hypothetical events comparable to that to which I allude.

So, we'll leave it at the most obvious comparison...if it is okay to have Black History Week, and to celebrate all things African-American, why would the inverse be racism? As you say, "reverse discrimination" is a misnomer, because discrimination (and, by association, prejudice) is bad, no matter who is fostering it, no matter what the rationale might be, and no matter how narrow or widely tossed around it is.

The only reason all of this is on my mind at all is that the bullshit from last school year with my youngest kid is starting again, and it would seem to be racially based (he was accused by a group of black kids of using a racial slur - further investigation on the part of the principal and others revealed that this was not in fact true, BTW - and that seems to me to be a racist thing for those kids to have done).

When we went to the school Thursday morning to discuss the situation with the principal, I related to her that it was apparent to me that a certain segment of her student body was participating in a culture of intimidation, and that there was a certain 'gangster attitude' being projected by this segment. She became highly offended and flatly told me that "This does not happen in this school."

Apparently, the woman doesn't spend much time looking at her students, hearing and seeing them interact with each other, because most of these kids positively *ooze* badass attitude, and it is even worse outside of school. My kid is having to bear the brunt of it, and I can't for the life of me see how that he would be targeted except for the fact that he is part of a racial minority in his school.

Comments? Because it is entirely possible that I'm not seeing things clearly since I have a kid who is constantly getting pushed, kicked, threatened and otherwise jacked with.

Originally posted by Elspode
So, we'll leave it at the most obvious comparison...if it is okay to have Black History Week, and to celebrate all things African-American, why would the inverse be racism?

It's actually Black History Month--February.

Whites "celebrate" their heritage every day--it's all around us. Blacks and other minorities were beat down for hundreds of years in these parts...and still are to some degree. Until recently, the accomplishments of many minorities in our history were either ignored or not given their proper props. Maybe one day we'll reach the point where blacks won't feel the desire or need for a black history month, Asians won't feel the desire or need for an Asian-Pacific heritage month, and so on. But for now, I think they're helpful, and necessary to a degree.

Rho says that a black history month (or any other month that celebrates minorities) is necessary to counteract white history, which has not always painted a pretty picture of non-whites...particularly in the way that some things are romanticized, like Manifest Destiny or Columbus's voyage to the new world.

I'm sorry to hear about your kid, Ep. That really sucks. But let's break it down a bit here:

--Is your kid the only white kid targeted at the school? Are these guys targeting white kids? Or are these thugs picking on anyone that appears "weak"?

--Have you taken your concerns to the school board or the local media?

--Do you think your perceptions might be colored because this involves your child, and you would probably do anything to protect them from harm?

I don't think you're a racist, Ep. And I don't expect you or anyone to necessarily agree with what I'm saying. I'm just trying to figure out where you're coming from, and hopefully you'll understand where I'm coming from.

Originally posted by sycamore
It's actually Black History Month--February.

***My mistake...I should have known that.

Whites "celebrate" their heritage every day--it's all around us. Blacks and other minorities were beat down for hundreds of years in these parts...and still are to some degree. Until recently, the accomplishments of many minorities in our history were either ignored or not given their proper props. Maybe one day we'll reach the point where blacks won't feel the desire or need for a black history month, Asians won't feel the desire or need for an Asian-Pacific heritage month, and so on. But for now, I think they're helpful, and necessary to a degree.

***And so do I...but I do feel compelled to point out the automatic negative position that "being on the other side" entails. If, as we agreed previously, that racism is racism, and discrimination is discrimination, then shouldn't it follow that if a thing is valid for one group, isn't it equally valid for another? What we have in this country is a defacto state of social combat, instead of a merging of thoughts and efforts. *Both* sides in this issue suffer from the "us against them" mentality, but it seems to only be possible for *one* side to ever be guilty of any such transgression. How, logically, can that even be possible, given that such a state of mutual distrust and dislike exists?

Rho says that a black history month (or any other month that celebrates minorities) is necessary to counteract white history, which has not always painted a pretty picture of non-whites...particularly in the way that some things are romanticized, like Manifest Destiny or Columbus's voyage to the new world.

***And there you have it in a nutshell. Wouldn't it be less combative to say "necessary to promote black history" than to say "necessary to counteract white history?" The entire concept is combative from the get go, but only if white people were to promulgate a similar event would it ever be considered to be combative...or racist. And please understand, I have all the respect in the world for Rho...she was smart enough to latch onto you, wasn't she? But even an educated and articulate person such as herself is subject to the inherent undercurrent of "us versus them", or so it would appear if that was, indeed, her statement.

The whole problem with history is that it is always written from a biased point of view. But is replacing one historical bias with another a reasonable solution?

I'm sorry to hear about your kid, Ep. That really sucks. But let's break it down a bit here:
--Is your kid the only white kid targeted at the school? Are these guys targeting white kids? Or are these thugs picking on anyone that appears "weak"?

***I'm sorry that I can't answer that question. The principal said yesterday that the only thing in common with the problems that we've been having was our son, despite the fact that, in the last two cases, anyway, he was absolved of fault.

--Have you taken your concerns to the school board or the local media?

***I have to live in this community, so going to the media would be like painting a swastika on my door. The pentagram was provocative enough... :-) As for going to the school board, I will certainly be contacting them if the trend continues.

--Do you think your perceptions might be colored because this involves your child, and you would probably do anything to protect them from harm?

***Absolutely this is possible...see my closing statements in the previous post. However, my observations about the attitudes and behavior are not skewed by my son's problems. I see what I see, and what I see cannot be adequately explained by cultural differences, unless the other culture accepts that intimidation, aggressive attitude and group prevarication are valid and desireable societal characteristics.

I don't think you're a racist, Ep. And I don't expect you or anyone to necessarily agree with what I'm saying. I'm just trying to figure out where you're coming from, and hopefully you'll understand where I'm coming from.

***I welcome and was hoping for commentary, and specifically from you, Syc. You, of all of us, can see both sides of the fence, and I can use a friend and some clear thinking right now.

The biggest problem this all presents for me is quite simple. If I even broach the possibility that my son is being targeted for harassment because of his race, *I* am going to be perceived as a racist. Yet, how can it not be possible that such a situation exists, given that we know there is, in fact, a cultural war going on in our country?

Els, is this the same perp and posse as last year?

Originally posted by Elspode
And so do I...but I do feel compelled to point out the automatic negative position that "being on the other side" entails. If, as we agreed previously, that racism is racism, and discrimination is discrimination, then shouldn't it follow that if a thing is valid for one group, isn't it equally valid for another?

I don't see things like Black History and the NAACP as racist or discriminatory. (The Nation of Islam though...that's another story.) Anyone can join the NAACP. And the purpose behind Black History Month (as I understand it) is to not only celebrate that particular culture, but to educate everyone about black history. Now, whether people want to be educated is up to them...hell, even some black folks could give two shits about Black History Month.

*Both* sides in this issue suffer from the "us against them" mentality, but it seems to only be possible for *one* side to ever be guilty of any such transgression. How, logically, can that even be possible, given that such a state of mutual distrust and dislike exists?

Well, like I said before, I think the vast majority of racism occurs against blacks by whites. Racism against whites is a rather new phenomenon in my opinion. Oh sure, it has probably gone on for a long time, but as far as becoming a real issue, that seems to be just beginning--sorta like how sexual harrassment is becoming a very serious issue. Though I do have another example of black on white racism:

A few years ago, we had a couple incidents at a high school in the far Northeast section of Philadelphia. The school is in a predominantly white area, and I would guesstimate that the school is at least 1/4 black, maybe more. (From what I understand, you can choose where to send your child for high school in the city. And given the state of some of the schools in this city, I wouldn't blame any black family for wanting to send their kid to Washington High.)

In any case, some white kid going through a "German appreciation" phase reportedly called this black kid a "nigger". Black kid didn't appreciate this, called the white kid a derogatory name and showed his lack of appreciation with a fist to the white kid's head. Prosecutors were considering a hate crime charge against the black kid, last I heard. Black community shits a brick. Why would the black kid be charged with a hate crime but not the white kid? Because he used race when punching the white kid out. (I'm not sure of what was exactly said, but I believe it was "white motherfucker.")

I don't know what happened with this case. But if the black kid was/is charged with a hate crime, I would be/am for that. It wasn't cool for the white kid to call the black kid "nigger", but the black kid should have kept his head and not punched the guy out. Or at the very least, he should have just called the guy "stupid motherfucker."

And there you have it in a nutshell. Wouldn't it be less combative to say "necessary to promote black history" than to say "necessary to counteract white history?" The entire concept is combative from the get go, but only if white people were to promulgate a similar event would it ever be considered to be combative...or racist. And please understand, I have all the respect in the world for Rho...she was smart enough to latch onto you, wasn't she? But even an educated and articulate person such as herself is subject to the inherent undercurrent of "us versus them", or so it would appear if that was, indeed, her statement.

Nah, I just said that shit to rile you up some more. ;)

Seriously, it's all in how it's perceived. To her, it's still a battlefield out there. And that's coming from an educated, articulate black person that grew up in white suburbia with quasi-conservative parents. She thinks of counteracting white history as a good thing.

And maybe it could have been phrased more positively. But here's the problem: There has been a backlash by some who don't want to see history corrected--Cairo's remarks about an issue like that in Texas with Latinos come to mind. And I imagine the Unsolved History episodes (a Discovery Channel series) about Custer's Last Stand and the Battle of the Alamo have really pissed off some white folk. But who has written most of our history?

I think Bruce's quote in another thread sorta ties into this: "People that are living comfortably aren't going out of their way to seek bad news that rocks the very foundation of everything they know and believe."

So, until things are truly rectified, minorities are still in battle mode. The Affirmative Action case this year was just another battle in the war. It's not 1964, but it's still a war zone.

The real question that needs to be answered is this: "What constitutes things being 'okay' or 'rectified'?" Some will say that things are fine now, but I don't think the question can really be answered.

I welcome and was hoping for commentary, and specifically from you, Syc. You, of all of us, can see both sides of the fence, and I can use a friend and some clear thinking right now.

I appreciate that, Ep.

The truth is...I felt the very same way on these types of issues as a teenager growing up in St. Louis. But as I learned more about racism and other cultures, got more life experience and saw occurrences through my own eyes, it just changed me. To add to that, I learned more about my Native American heritage. And I see how it is still disrespected openly in some cases (e.g. the Washington Redskins or the tomahawk chop in Atlanta), and it just saddens me. Of course, some would say that I'm being overly sensitive about it...they're entitled to their opinion.

I'll have a party the day the Redskins have to change their name. They've already lost copyright protection on it, so that's a start.

The biggest problem this all presents for me is quite simple. If I even broach the possibility that my son is being targeted for harassment because of his race, *I* am going to be perceived as a racist. Yet, how can it not be possible that such a situation exists, given that we know there is, in fact, a cultural war going on in our country?

I would recommend talking with the parents of other white students, to see if they are having problems similar to yours. And if you see a pattern, then take it to the principal, then the school board.

Are you going to be branded as a racist? Sure...by some, maybe even by many. Fuck that...I'm assuming in this situation (demographics-wise), you are the minority. Just don't pull a Rush--"reverse discrimination" is a big no-no.

It's all in the presentation, really...

Quote Syc
Well, like I said before, I think the vast majority of racism occurs against blacks by whites. Racism against whites is a rather new phenomenon in my opinion. Oh sure, it has probably gone on for a long time, but as far as becoming a real issue, that seems to be just beginning--sorta like how sexual harrassment is becoming a very serious issue. Snip Quote

My dorm in Boston was adjacent to the Mission Hill area (slum) and contact with the residents was unavoidable. About 1/3 of the guys in the dorm were attacked physically, and many more verbally by black teenagers or men in their 20's. The unifying theme was all the victims were addressed as "whitey" or "white boy". It wasn't poverty because none of the victims were robbed.

All that was in the early 60's but the weekend after Labor Day a guy at work was killed in Wildwood for walking through the "wrong" neighborhood". Again not robbed just killed.

I don't approve but I understand how frustration builds up until you want to explode and lashing out at anyone you feel represents your unseen oppressor becomes a, maybe the, viable option.
But regardless of the reasons I'd call it racism pure and simple. It really pisses me off when they tell me that white on black is racism but black on white is backlash. Racism is racism and absolutely wrong from anyone, against anyone, for any reason.
Of course then you have to define what is and is not racism which opens a huge debate with everyone trying to gain an advantage and cover their own ass. People being people.

Now that Black people are the majority in Philly maybe things will change.

Two things set me off. One is when some black or hispanic guy says I don't like them because they're black or hispanic. No, I don't like you because you're an asshole. Race doesn't enter into it.
The other is blaming me for slavery. I had as much to do with slavery as I did with hurricane Isabel. Even if my ancestors *had* owned slaves,which they didn't, what the hell has that to do with me?

Now you know I'm a wiseguy and I take shots at everybody. But if I offend you it's me being an asshole not a racist. I do think rap sucks though.

Originally posted by xoxoxoBruce
Els, is this the same perp and posse as last year?

Not the same perp, but some of the same posse.

Ok so they can't say it's just a continuence of a personal feud. Do you know what happened the that creep? I wonder if he's in the background? I also wonder how many other kids are dealing with similar shit? Can your kid fill in that info?

Before I start gloating, I think we'll avoid touching on the fact that my home football team is also one of those considered to be politically incorrect in the naming department (although their name derives from former Kansas City Mayor H. Roe Bartle, who was affectionately called "Chief" because he was the founder of the Tribe of Mic-O-Say, a sort of honor society amongst our local Boy Scouts...an honor society which uses Native American traditions in their practices). We do the tomahawk chop here, and have a lot of Native American motifs (hell, our stadium is named "Arrowhead", for crying out loud), possibly to our dishonor.

However, that doesn't change the fact that we are 5-0 after today's squeaker defeat of the Denver Donkeys, again thanks to a circus performance runback of a punt by Dante Hall...the incredible, NFL record-setting, peforming a feat never before performed by an NFL player, Dante Hall.

Our offense sputtered a bit once again, but our D stood tall when it counted. The Donkeys had a lot of luck, recovering a lot of fumbles that could easily have been lost, and Jake the Snake had a good game, as did Shannon Sharpe, but in the end, KC wins the battle of the AFC West undefeateds, and stands alone atop our division!

Woo Hoo?! Can I get a Woo Hoo!???

Woo Who.:p

Dave,

I'm new. I'm local. I'm a Cowboys fan. Look out this Sunday. Will it be Donovan we saw in the last 6 Cowboys games that squishes us under his boot heel, or the floundering mess he's been so far this year? Will Dandy Andy blow the game plan and try to throw on D. Woodson and Roy Williams all day, or will he remeber the running portion of his offense. Take the Eagles and the Under....I don't think Quincy can look that good for 4 games in a row.

Good luck...I'll be at the game here in december when Dallas comes a callin.

Ljim
:confused:

Quincy Carter is overrated because he's a black quarterback and the media wants him to do well.

He's Black????!!!!


:eek:

Will the madness never end?!!

How can a black guy be named Quincy? It defies logic. I thought he just had a good tan being down in Tx.

I won't talk about how disgusted I am that I did not see the game today due to a previous commitment.

I will, however, mention two things...first, Dante Hall was within about two inches of yet another runback for a touchdown, thwarted only by the Packers' punter. Second...WHAT A COMEBACK!

This team has got some serious cojones, eh?

Originally posted by lumberjim
How can a black guy be named Quincy?

Well, there's musical genius Quincy Jones...he's like 70-something now.

HE'S BLACK TOO!!!!!???????

( i can go on like this forever....can we just let it drop?)

Gah! PBurg is going to figure out a new way to lose every week.

I'm slipping...I failed to point out that the Chiefs are now 7-0...

Aaaaaaaahhhhhh!!!!!! Off week, they only have to beat the Rams. Theres a break.

The Steelers will be beaten like the stupid bitches they are. Sorry Griff. :)

Now, let's compare the Rams and Chiefs:

St. Louis
--nice, non-offensive name
--4-2...practically first place since Seattle really doesn't count
--number 2 offense
--number 8 defense
--Sycamore is from there...enough said.

Kansas City
--name could be considered offensive by some
--7-0, but perennial chokers
--number 11 offense
--6th worst defense
--Elspode...good guy, but not as cool as Sycamore

But the Chiefs have 3 more tough games this year, while the Rams have only 2.

Oh, and Dick Vermeil is a bastard.

The end.

But the "Bastard" is Reeeeaaalllly goooood!!!!!:D

Once again, we have a "Cardiac Kids" team, squeaking out one victory after another. They have yet to truly dominate a game. Fortunately, domination isn't a statistic that counts in the W/L column.

We have the Vikes and the Donkeys both in the last four weeks of the season. That'll be make or break, I think. The team attitude is excellent here in KC, though. One thing Vermiel brings is a real sense of *feeling*, a family sort of thing. A guy like Dante Hall, who really couldn't be faulted if he strutted a little and acted like hot shit, behaves like he's playing for his grandpa, and is as humble and well-behaved as you'd like your daughter's boyfriend to be. The rest of the Chiefs are much the same way. It is a very refreshing change after the criminal element we had here in the waning years of Martyball.

These guys might be the real thing, but they are going to have to step it up a notch.

And yeah, Syc, you probably are cooler than me. Hell, most people are cooler than me. I'm relatively unhip by modern standards. On the other hand, my team is 7-0... :p

Let's look at the Chiefs over the past 15 years:

2002: 8-8-0
2001: 6-10-0
2000: 7-9-0
1999: 9-7-0
1998: 7-9-0
1997: 13-3-0 (lost divisional playoff)
1996: 9-7-0
1995: 13-3-0 (lost divisional playoff)
1994: 9-7-0 (lost wildcard)
1993: 11-5-0 (lost AFC Championship)
1992: 10-6-0 (lost wildcard)
1991: 10-6-0 (lost divisional playoff)
1990: 11-5-0 (lost wildcard)
1989: 8-7-1
1988: 4-11-1

Anything's possible this year, but KC has a history of playoff futility here.

Glad I could help you out with that. :)

Streaks, even choke streaks, are meant to be broken. This means both that the Chiefs will lose a game or two this season, and they might well break that choke streak in the process. Time will tell.

So, let's talk about that fantastic game in Pittsburgh, Griff.

It was close until well into the 4th quarter...but the Rams and that offense just don't quit.

Marshall who? The Rams are doing very well without him. And that defense is tough...having Aeneas Williams back helps.

Bulger passes for 375 yards, no interceptions...and no turnovers for the Rams. Big Game Torry Holt has, well...a big game as usual: 174 yards receiving on only 7 catches.

Sorry Griff...the Steelers just sputtered out.

And who's tied for first place, back where they belong in the NFC West? The Rams...duh! :)

Originally posted by sycamore
Sorry Griff...the Steelers just sputtered out.

They're just getting in line for a Heisman winner. :)
Its gonna be a long cold winter...

The Rams actually looked pretty good. They're much better balanced than they were. Where is the knock out punch though? The Steelers were hanging around much longer than they should have.

They don't have that knockout punch yet...this is not quite "The Greatest Show on Turf," but it seems to be getting there. Manumaleuna is beginning to fill Conwell's shoes...get Faulk back and get some more catches to Bruce, and there you go.

The problem last year was that teams finally figured out Martz's offense, in addition to injuries on defense. Apparently, Martz has retooled it, Bulger is playing solid, and Lovie Smith has that defense righted. Look for Warner to be second-stringer through next season, unless they can make a helluva offseason deal.

Sycamore personally recommends that Kurt retire. We love ya buddy, but your day in the sun has come to an unfortunate end. Retire, become offensive coordinator, and earn some more rings that way.

Originally posted by Griff
They're just getting in line for a Heisman winner.

A caveat though...you know that Heisman does not necessarily equal Sanders-like greatness in the NFL.

You know, if there's anything else better than snapping a three-game losing streak, it's doing so against an undefeated team. The Giants have always played best under pressure, and now with the Marlins ending the Series, there's nothing to keep the papers from yelling at Big Blue if they do poorly.

Three-game losing streak...one more thing to blame on the Yankees. Lousy pinstriped bastards...way to go Florida.

Originally posted by sycamore

Sycamore personally recommends that Kurt retire. We love ya buddy, but your day in the sun has come to an unfortunate end. Retire, become offensive coordinator, and earn some more rings that way.

I was actually thinking about this today. Why not stay on as the competent backup? Get healed, relax, take a few practice snaps during the week...?

He (through his wife on St. Louis radio) doesn't want that. He wants to be a starter. But what he fails to realize is that he's suffered some nasty injuries during his 4 years in St. Louis. And quite frankly, I don't think he's going to recover from them. But I'm willing to give him one more shot, considering what he did for football in St. Louis...and for football in general.

Chiefs 38, Bills 5. Chiefs are 8-0, the first team to have that record following a losing season in 31 years. Drew Bledsoe, arguably one of the better arms in the NFL left the field a battered and nervous man after having to pick blitzing linebackers and defensive linemen out of his teeth all night long. Buffalo gave up 7 turnovers (some of which were laughably inept), while the Chiefs turned in their most solid and well-balanced performance of the season. No one will be talking "luck" about this one. And the Bills came in to Arrowhead with a 4-3 record, so they could hardly be called shabby.

Among the more choice plays last night was an intended Priest Holmes run around right end which was stopped up by the Bills' D-line. Holmes reversed direction, running parallel to the front line to the opposite side of the field, turning the left end corner on the back of a *crushing* block by Chiefs' *quarterback* Trent Green. It was almost more fun to watch than should be legal. Oh...did I mention that the play went for a TD?

The Chiefs now will enjoy an extremely well-positioned bye week before going on to play the second half of the season. During the next eight weeks, 6 of the 8 teams the Cheifs will play now have losing records. Other interesting facts show that, of the 11 teams who have stood at 8-0 in the past, 8 have gone to the Super Bowl, and 5 have won it.

Being a Chiefs fan is fun this year.

I'm glad the Chiefs are doing well...and maybe they can break that cycle of bad luck in the playoffs this year. Vermeil's got a good crew there.

(Do you know how hard it was for me to say that?)

I appreciate it, Syc. Hey...how about the Rams and the Chiefs in the Stupendous Bowl?

Hell, I'd be happy if they'd bring the Governors Cup back.

But a Super Bowl involving the Rams and Chiefs...that would be fantastic.

File under "nice".

The Chargers can't play the Dolphins in San Diego tonight due to the fires in Southern California. Officials ask the NFL to either move or cancel the game.

The NFL moves the game to Phoenix...and lets people in for free.

...and raises a pile for relief.

maybe I missed something, but why didn't they play it in miami?

I didn't hear anything specific, but I would imagine it was mainly an issue of logistics.

The change of venue did not occur until 6pm PT Sunday, IIRC. I would imagine that the grounds crew at Pro Player in Miami was off Sunday, and so they might not have had enough time to get the stadium ready for a Monday game. But the Cardinals had just played Sunday in Phoenix, and it probably didn't take much to get the stadium ready for another game Monday. Probably happens frequently there, given that the Cardinals share the stadium with the Sun Devils.

In addition, they might have been thinking of the players' mental states. The Dolphins didn't fly out to San Diego until Sunday. So, after one 6-8 hour flight, they would have had to take another 6-8 hour flight back to Miami. And I would assume that many of the Chargers players make temporary homes in San Diego, and wouldn't want to be too far from home if any further problems arose from the fire.

I would say for once in his life that Bill Bidwell did something nice, but Sun Devil Stadium is run by Arizona State University, so it was nice of them to accomodate the game.

I swear, the Giants just don't want to make it easy for themselves. I was crying after Conway sent that one sailing left, just bawling. God bless you though Will Allen, you and your Secret-Service-like kick blocks.

Also - and I wonder if the Philadelphia Cellarites can confirm this - my brother has deduced that Brian Mitchell has a secret pact with McNabb and the Eagles to drain the Giants' budget by being hired as a kick returner and never running one back, ever. How far off is he?

B-Mitch is ancient, almost MY age, and so in order for him to run it back he needs a few good blocks. He sits back and waits for the blocks to appear and then makes good decisions. If the blocks never appear because your special teams players are weak, B-Mitch is a waste of funds and should be replaced with a speed guy. But on the good side, he'll never muff a kick.

____________________
B-Mitch is ancient, almost MY age, and so in order for him to run it back he needs a few good blocks. He sits back and waits for the blocks to appear and then makes good decisions. If the blocks never appear because your special teams players are weak, B-Mitch is a waste of funds and should be replaced with a speed guy. But on the good side, he'll never muff a kick
___________________

Additionally, he'll probably never kick a muff!

-sorry, I couldn't resist
go Cowboys!

Originally posted by Undertoad
B-Mitch is ancient, almost MY age, and so in order for him to run it back he needs a few good blocks. He sits back and waits for the blocks to appear and then makes good decisions. If the blocks never appear because your special teams players are weak

No, see, we make the blocks. Typical scenario: The opposing team comes downfield, and ST forms a slightly horseshoe wall that brings them to a solid stop right there around center field and pens them in long enough for someone who tries to be able to get around on the side and drive for the endzone. Mitchell however has long ago decided that the best way to go, the best possible "good decision" as you put it, is to run straight into that wall of players. The concept of moving left or right is apparently anathema to him.

And jim: To hell with the Cowboys, and to hell with your traitor of a coach too.

I don't think Dante Hall is going to be available anytime soon, either, so that won't solve the runback dilemma.

Only six more days until the Chiefs kick some Cleveland butt.

Never know. Chiefs could catch Pittsburgh Pirates Syndrome between now and next season, start exporting talent like mad. :D

don't the chefs usually come unravelled at this point in the season? actually, they could very well go 16-0 this year...good luck , el

am i the only one that is rapidly becoming a houston texans fan? i mean, they are sorta local for me and that helps...but you know what i really like about them? they always play football...you know? i hate it when they'll just let the clock run down and play it safe...i like flat out, balls to the wall football...of course they are only my #2 team, as i am a hardcore saints fan....one day we'll get all our shit in one sock and be a kick ass team...always been a raider fan...although i don't hold out much hope...at least for the next couple of years while they 'refresh their talent'....can you believe bill romanowski is gonna retire? and finally, the bucc's....seems like i may not see any of my teams go to the superbowl...but it's early yet...*shrugs* you never know.

The house is divided today...

Ravens vs. Rams tonight on ESPN. Love both teams, but of course, the Rams always come first for me. And Rho, being the Baltimore native, must give love to the Ravens.

Outlook: Both have great defenses, but the Rams have the offense. Rams by at least 2 touchdowns.

There is a process to our rooting for teams that goes like this:

--Any St. Louis team vs. a non-Baltimore team: St. Louis
--Any Baltimore team vs. a non-St. Louis team: Baltimore
--Washington Capitals vs. a non-St. Louis team: Washington
--Washington NFL team vs. any other team: The other team
--Washington Wizards vs. any other team: Washington (Rho), don't care (me)
--Any Philadelphia team vs. a non-Baltimore or non-St. Louis team (except the Washington Capitals): Philadelphia (me), don't care (Rho)
--House divided: Ravens-Rams, Capitals-Blues, college teams Rho likes vs. college teams I like

College-wise, well, Rho's main teams are those in the Baltimore-Washington area (mainly Maryland, Georgetown, Morgan State, Towson and Howard), with some liking of the Pennsylvania teams (except for Temple). Mine are the Missouri, Illinois, Maryland, and Pennsylvania teams (mainly St. Louis, Mizzou, SE Missouri State, Illinois, Maryland, St. Joseph's, and Penn).

It's going to be interesting when St. Louis joins the Atlantic 10 in 2 years.

Okay, who did it? Who said the game against the Falcons would be an easy win and thus doomed the Giants? I wanna know, who was it? Some tongues need cut out here. I know the sports section of the New York Post did it, but I know they weren't the only ones, so come on. Fess up.

It's the sad and sorry truth - whenever the pressure is off, or the Giants are expected to win, they tank. When it's do-or-die, they have the collective escape artist capability of Houdini, Batman, Bond, and Clinton together. Though I do admit, the novelty of B-Mitch running back a few kicks for double-digit yards was amusing.

And now I see the Steelers won. If the Eagles win Monday, I'm gonna be pissed clear until Wednesday or Thursday, minimum.

Go Packers.

Two minutes left and the Cowboys are ahead of the Bills. If they win this one, and the Eagles win tomorrow, it'll be a pretty tough mountain for the Giants to climb.

Gotta root Rams tonight. Steelers only need to win the rest of their games and have the Ravens collapse....

BTW- Flutie freaking rocks

14-3 in the 2nd quarter...the Marshall Plan is back in action tonight in St. Louis. (Whoohoo!)

Originally posted by sycamore
The house is divided today...

Ravens vs. Rams tonight on ESPN. Love both teams, but of course, the Rams always come first for me. And Rho, being the Baltimore native, must give love to the Ravens.

Outlook: Both have great defenses, but the Rams have the offense. Rams by at least 2 touchdowns.

There is a process to our rooting for teams that goes like this:

--Any St. Louis team vs. a non-Baltimore team: St. Louis
--Any Baltimore team vs. a non-St. Louis team: Baltimore
--Washington Capitals vs. a non-St. Louis team: Washington
--Washington NFL team vs. any other team: The other team
--Washington Wizards vs. any other team: Washington (Rho), don't care (me)
--Any Philadelphia team vs. a non-Baltimore or non-St. Louis team (except the Washington Capitals): Philadelphia (me), don't care (Rho)
--House divided: Ravens-Rams, Capitals-Blues, college teams Rho likes vs. college teams I like

College-wise, well, Rho's main teams are those in the Baltimore-Washington area (mainly Maryland, Georgetown, Morgan State, Towson and Howard), with some liking of the Pennsylvania teams (except for Temple). Mine are the Missouri, Illinois, Maryland, and Pennsylvania teams (mainly St. Louis, Mizzou, SE Missouri State, Illinois, Maryland, St. Joseph's, and Penn).

It's going to be interesting when St. Louis joins the Atlantic 10 in 2 years.

so, what do you do when a non st louis team plays a non washington team in the wind is out of the west and the moon sets below the 33rd parallel and an announcer from the baltimore market is boadcasting the game with a st louis color man?

jesus christ...just root for the cowboys and be done with it already!

Okay. Dallas, Philly, AND Washington all won. Shockey busted his knee, he's out six to eight weeks. So, best-case scenario, he's back in time for Carolina at the end of the season. Worst-case scenario, God comes down and tells me Himself, "Yeah, you're not allowed to have fun during football season."

I've looked over the schedules, here it is. The Giants DO have a shot at a wild card slot. Barring massive failures on the part of the Cowboys and the Eagles, that's what they should shoot for.

Right now, the two second-best teams in the NFC are the Eagles and the Rams at 6-3, with Giants, Packers, Saints, Bucs, and 49ers after them at 4-5 each. These five share a lot of opponents fron now to season's end, so to analyze it out right now would be fruitless, as one week and the whole picture is changed.

My hatred to the Eagles is known, so yeah definitely wanting them to hurt. What I am seeing as well though is...the Rams have to take some falls. Syc, I'm sorry. I always liked you, I hold no grudge against you personally. This is just business.

The Bungles!?

i cannot believe the chiefs lost to the bengals...the mind just reels....at least the saints and the texans won today, that does my heart good. i had lost all faith in the saints in the first half but they rallied....by the hair on their chinny chin chins....makes me wonder if we would have beat them if michael vick was playing.

I will not yell, I will not scream. In deference to the birthday of certain bulletin board founders, I will not lament the complete lack of testicular fortitude displayed by the warriors of my city on the football field today. I abandon my bitterness. It's gone, out the window, farewell.

Not at all bitter.

Completely devoid of bitterness.

Yes sir.

Fassel must go, is what it looks like it comes down to. That team was completely unmotivated.

Do you hate the Eagles more than the Cowboys?

Fassel does not have to go. Put down the copy of the Post and step away. SLOWLY. What the big problem was Sunday was they had a rookie CB, and because of it, were afraid to blitz. If it weren't for that, the defense would have mopped the Eagles all game.

Don't believe me? Look at the last game a few weeks back: From the 3:14 mark in the first quarter to the end of the game, McNabb and the offense NEVER crossed the 50 into Giants territory. The first quarter. And what Westbrook pulled was the textbook definition of a fluke, don't give me that.

As to the other question...I don't know. Giants-Eagles is a blood feud, that's something you just have to respect. But ever since Parcells joined up with the Cowboys...that was just wrong. The Jets and the Pats, we could forgive, but this?

As it stands, the Eagles are the closer of the two evils, so yeah, they're getting the bulk of the hatred, but there's plenty to go around. Someone remind me to send a bottle of champagne and a thank-you card to the Pats? They made a rough day more bearable.

Michael Strahan was also owned, rook corners or no. And the rook corners didn't screw up first and goal on the 1.

The Eagles offense was all hosed up the first half of the season. It looks like McNabb is back in stride now.

And this game was on six days rest after beating GB at Lambeau, man! If anyone was gonna let down it was gonna be the Eagles.

I knew the Chiefs wouldnt' go 16-0...they aren't *that* good. But it was still painful watching them get manhandled by the Bengals.

Oh well...on to 15-1. That should still be an eye-opener of a season. ;)

Wouldnt it be funny if the wheels came off and they finished 9-7?

no?

Sadist.

Chewie, I want you to repeat after me..."The Giants are a lost cause this season...the Giants are a lost cause this season..."

I want you to repeat that about 700 times...believe me, it's better this way. There's always next year.

Ep, I'm sorry about the Chiefs...seriously. You actually got me into rooting for them.

I can't believe the Bears almost beat the Rams...what's up with that? That's alright though...Bulger's solid play in the 4th quarter should shut the fuck up out of the bitches that begged Martz to bench Bulger in favor of Warner. You DON'T change horses in mid-stream.

Jim, it's actually not as complicated as it looks when it comes to rooting for teams in this house. Now your Cowboys comment almost confirms for me that you were dropped one too many times on your head as a child, but perhaps it's just the lingering effects from that massive shit you took after that photo you posted, so I'm willing to cut you a break here.

McNabb and the Iggles seem to finally be playing like the teams of the past two years. Merrill Reese almost lost his mind over that goalline stance. Good game.

It's called "keeping the faith", Syc. I don't see you feeding Griff that same line, and he needs it as much if not more than I may!

Granted, as a Pittsburgh fan, he's probably moved on to watching hockey games by now...or NASCAR.

Originally posted by Chewbaccus
It's called "keeping the faith", Syc. I don't see you feeding Griff that same line, and he needs it as much if not more than I may!

Heh. I know the Steelers suck... you're still in denial.

Watch your mouth on that Nascar jive. I'm rural but not that rural.

Originally posted by Chewbaccus

Granted, as a Pittsburgh fan, he's probably moved on to watching hockey games by now...or NASCAR.

you know, hockey IS a gateway drug to NASCAR...be very careful, griff.

Griff's right...he knows his team is just not cutting the mustard this year.

And what's wrong with NASCAR? Good stuff.

Originally posted by sycamore
And what's wrong with NASCAR? Good stuff.

How? How is it good stuff? I remember as a child watching a race with a friend's father. The cars went around the track once, I got up ready to leave, but they kept going. I didn't get it. I asked the father what the deal was, and he told me that they go around multiple times. Okay, I said, that's understandable. Simple track like that, couldn't just be once around. How many laps? Three, five, seven?

"Two hundred."

I calmly set down my soda and walked out to play in the sandbox, because even then, at that early an age, I had the common sense to know that if I sat down and watched that race to the finish, I would die.

I really just don't get the fascination with it all. It's like watching a hamster run on its wheel. I could put mutant guinea pigs into go-karts, lock the gas and the wheel, and achieve the same effect.

I enjoy the excitement, the tension, the fights, the speed...of course, I'm also a fan of golf...

...and probably make a million bucks, if you could make the mutant guinea pigs, like, eight feet long, and dress them in little suits with plenty of room for advertising on them.

How do you feel about drag racing? Motocross? Formula One? Lawnmower racing? Snowmobiles trying to cross ponds? Tractor pulls? Mud runs? Hillclimbs?

I like 'em all. Only in America can we have so many versions of the same basic thing, consuming massive amounts of money in the process, and generating still more money in the end.

What's not to like?

Originally posted by Elspode
How do you feel about drag racing?

Now, that's racing. Car-to-car, going from here to there - ONE TIME - pitting what you can do to your machine against what the other guy can do to his. I personally prefer street racing to the regular long, low, lean, triangular cars with the spoilers, but I grew up by Franny Lew, so I'm prejudiced. :)

Motocross?

Meh. I never really got into it. I prefer cars to bikes.

Lawnmower racing?

God, I hope you're kidding.

Snowmobiles trying to cross ponds?

I feel they should fall in.

Tractor pulls? Mud runs? Hillclimbs?

Wow, there's a right nice collection of rednecks.

And in other news - J-Shock may make it for this Monday, next Sunday against Buffalo at the latest. I could see him on the sidelines at the Philly game, just wanting to go to Fassel and say "Look, I'll just rub some dirt on it. Just let me play." Good ol' tough-ass country boy...

Ya know Chewie, Queens isn't THAT much of a step above the rednecks you encounter in western PA. ;)

Chiefs squeaked out another one. The Cardiac Kids ride again.

10-1 is pretty sweet, though. I worry when they have to play someone who doesn't suck. They haven't been all that spiffy lately, and having the Raiders take them down to the last 9 seconds in our own house was pretty scary.

There's a definite change in the gung-ho vibe here in KC since the Bengals took us to the woodshed last week. We're still on a roll, but we haven't had a good, strong, well-rounded game for a few weeks now, and we really need a dominant performance soon to keep the confidence level up.

Still the best record in the NFL, though.

Originally posted by sycamore
Ya know Chewie, Queens isn't THAT much of a step above the rednecks you encounter in western PA. ;)

Syc, big mistake - you're lumping Queens together into one classification, and that can't be done. Queens is made up of multiple neighborhoods. I'm from Bayside - so many steps above Western PA, we need portable oxygen. We have sidewalks, intact flat streets, buildings over two stories high...

Now if you're thinking about places like Hollis or Jamaica...well...it's a question of which stereotypes you're comfortable around.

A possible NFC Championship match up is on tap in St. Louis today, as the Vikings come to town. I dunno though...I think the Vikings are overrated. The Rams should win this one.

Another possible championship match up happens in Charlotte, as the Panthers play the Eagles. But I think the Panthers are overrated too...I'm going with the Eagles.

(For Chewie's benefit, we have the Bills in NJ to play the Giants. Buffalo has a 1-4 record on the road...but the Giants have a 1-4 record at home. I'm going to go with the Giants, but it's gonna be close.)

Looking at this week's schedule, it would seem that the Vikings-Rams and Eagles-Panthers games are the games of the week. Too bad the Rams are on at 1:00 today (same as the Eagles).

Oh...can't forget about the Ravens...they're playing the 49ers in Baltimore today--should be an easy win for the Ravens.

Whoohoo for football!

(edit--I thought the Eagles were playing here in Philadelphia today, but they're not...my bad.)

You leave out the NFL's best record from your commentary? Man, what nerve. I think I'll leave The Cellar out of protest.

Oh. Wait. No, I won't.

The Chiefs won again, and again, by a narrow margin to what was supposed to be a massively inferior team. The Cardiac Kids strike again. I wish they'd blow someone out, and soon.

Nevertheless, they are 11-1. This is a good thing. I missed the damn game though, as I was on aircraft all afternoon. Why should it take three stops and a plane change to get to Austin from Kansas City?

Oh well...I had a great time playing with my GPS on the way. Pretty cool to watch it go from zero to 550 mph in about fifteen minutes, and from 600 feet to 35,000 feet.

Next week, I watch the whole game. GO CHIEFS!

Ep, the Chiefs were left out b/c I believe in them now. Chewie, on the other hand, needs all the help he can get. :)

Sorry Mike...I really thought the Giants could pull it off today.

Let us now talk about the nice asswhipping that the Rams gave the Vikings. Bulger gave a solid performance that should shut the goddamned chuckleheads in St. Louis up. Marc Bulger will be the starting QB until he seriously melts down. After all, there was a time when another starting QB got hurt. And when he healed, no one seemed to care that the backup stayed in...an unproven QB whose only real claim to fame was the AFL. That year was 1999 and the backup QB was a guy by the name of Kurt Warner.

Bulger is in for the long haul. He too could lead the Rams to greatness. He's 15-3 as a starter. End of story.

Reverend Ike threw a 41 yard pass! 41 yards! It led to a touchdown on the next play!

And what's up with the Ravens having a real offense recently? 44-6?! Amazing.

Eagles/Panthers was a tough defensive battle with solid playing by both McNabb and Del Homme. Eagles pulled it off in the end, but it was close.

I'm of the mind that this is a solar-eclipse kind of year in the world of sports. Something's just...off about the whole profession. Consider what we're seeing/have seen this year:

~~~~

The Chicago Cubs and the Boston Red Sox in serious competition for the World Series.

The very real possibility the AFC Championship game may be played out between the Cincinnatti Bengals and the Kansas City Chiefs, with the winner perhaps facing the Carolina Panthers.

The New York Knicks - short Houston and Van Horn, two of their key veteran players - beating a full-strength, Iverson-led Philadelphia 76ers.

~~~~

Something ain't right this year. I don't know what, I don't know why, but something's just not right.

I'm sorry, but I have to beg to differ....something is very, very *right* this year!

Fuck dynasties. Fuck threepeats. Fuck giant payrolls. Give me sports, give me competition...give me parity or give me death!

My team is so *due*, it boggles the mind to think about it. There's nothing wrong with this year; it was all those other years that were hosed.

BIG GAME THIS WEEKEND

Cowboys at Eagles

anyone else going?????

this one actually means something.....eagles can lock a playoff berth, cowboys can retake the division lead and hold the tie breaker.

my predictions for next season:

Kurt Warner signs with the cowboys.....Cory Dillon or Deuce staley, too. dallas goes 13-3, wins division, plays cincinatti in the bowl. and wins......again

Boy, didn't I tell you to put that glue down?

Cowboys are surprising this year, but I think the Eagles can pull it off. Of course, neither can beat the Rams...

Speaking of God's Chosen Team, they play next Monday at Cleveland...*zzzzz*

If LJ is sniffing glue, Syc must be huffing tolulene...

God's chosen team is playing Denver, man. You have to admit that, of all the teams in the NFL, the Chiefs have had more plays that smacked of divine intervention than anyone else by far.

Originally posted by Elspode
You have to admit that, of all the teams in the NFL, the Chiefs have had more plays that smacked of divine intervention than anyone else by far.

Actually, God has intervened more in Steeler games this year... they have apparently offended Him. :(

Well, yeah, but I was talking about the Chiefs being God's team. Obviously, the Steelers are Satan's.

It has snowed mightily, and the Cowboys are coming to The Linc.

It will be interesting to see if the snowballs are as good there as they were at The Vet.

Originally posted by wolf
It has snowed mightily, and the Cowboys are coming to The Linc.

It will be interesting to see if the snowballs are as good there as they were at The Vet.

just leave your batteries at home. i'll be there tomorrow right near the eagles bench........wonder if i could hit big andy from my seat????hmmmm>>>>

go cowboys!

You do know you are a dead man if you say such a thing during actual gameplay? You're not wearing any clothing with stars on it are you? I'll watch the news to see them carry your limp body out of the seating area.

i go to this game every year......and each year i wear less blue......my own mortality has been becoming more apparent as i age.....

i almost broke a guys finger one year.......he pointed at me and laughed....like HE had beaten ME......douchebag

that was the game when the shitty eagles fans cheered when irvin broke his neck.

there were a number of cool eagles fans around that didnt cheer, but still....the cheers were pretty loud.

Simple behavior guide:

- Cheering at Irvin: acceptable

- Wearing blue: acceptable

- Pointing and laughing: acceptable

- Attempting to break a finger: unacceptable

HTH

so, if a drunken tool in green had his finger within inches of your face, you'd turn the other cheek?

i did say almost.....i let him go before i did something stupid

cheering at ANYONE who is being carted off on a stretcher= UNACCEPTABLE

thought you went to the alan alda school for sensitive men, toad? you make exceptions for cowboys fans?

This could very well be the game of the year: a muddy field (after today's Army-Navy game), snow, the rivalry, crazy Philadelphia fans, both teams are good...as I've told several people over the past few days, this is huge!

People are allowed to behave badly. The line you crossed is actually causing physical harm, it's called assault even if you didn't succeed. Respect for that line is why you can even set foot in the stadium wearing blue at all.

let's not get in a pissing match, toad.....

for all i knew he could have poked me in the eye. it was a very brief exchange..reflexive, even.....he was above me coming down the concourse and i was going the other way.....like passing on an escalator.

i let him go almost immediately.....

hey, wait a minute.....that wasn't YOUR finger, was it Toad?!

No, and that wasn't your hand! :eek:

It's cool, I just have a low tolerance for actual violence. (Except for, you know, the preventative or defensive sort)

Originally posted by Undertoad
No, and that wasn't your hand! :eek:

eeeeewwwwwwwwwwwwwww

Great game today...unless you are Jimbo or a Cowboys fan. Good defensive battle to start, Eagles pulled away in the end, McNabb was solid, Carter just couldn't get the ball to his WRs. Cowboys will probably need to win their final 3 games to get into the playoffs.

Now the Eagles have to worry about the Rams. If the Rams win tomorrow night (and they should), they will be in the playoffs as well. I'm not sure of how the tiebreaker would work in the case of home-field advantage, but here's what we would have:

Eagles
--10-3
--4-1 in the NFC East
--8-2 against the NFC

Rams (assuming they win tomorrow)
--10-3
--3-2 in the NFC West
--7-3 against the NFC

The Eagles have a tough game against the Dolphins, followed by San Francisco here in Philadelphia and then they finish up in Washington.

The Rams have Seattle in St. Louis next week, followed by Cincinnati at home then they finish in Detroit.

Advantage: Rams

Will the Chiefs be the first 15-1 team since the '98 Vikings? And will they make the Super Bowl unlike that Vikings team? Could this be an I-70 Bowl deep in the heart of Texas?

The one Super Bowl combination that I don't want to see happen: Baltimore vs. St. Louis

I'm still traumatized by the Chiefs' complete collapse against The Donkeys on Sunday. Unfortunately (and Syc, you're gonna love me saying this after first saying they were chokers and then backing down as their record improved), I fear that the team that we saw get drilled in Denver is the team that the Chiefs are, and have been, all season. Lucky breaks used up, with a defense that is absolutely powerless to stop the run, and a big play offense that only made big plays for half the game, this team, if something doesn't pull together, will indeed go down in the first round of the playoffs.

Gods help me. I can't bear it.

Campbells is running a promotion that donates cans of soup to various shelter programs and foodbanks that has a football tie in ... click for your favorite team to have a can of soup donated.

Season's not over yet, Ep...hang in there.

On to this week...

Seattle vs. St. Louis: As I've said on several occasions, the Seahawks are overrated. And they are 1-5 on the road. Rams by at least 2 touchdowns.

Incidentally, only 3 teams in the NFC have a winning record on the road: St. Louis, Philadelphia and Tampa Bay.

For that matter, only 5 teams in the AFC have a winning record on the road: New England, Miami, Indianapolis, Tennessee and Kansas City.

Philadelphia vs. Miami: This game would be much more to the Iggles' advantage if it were here...but having said that, they shouldn't have too hard of a time with the Dolphins...Eagles by 2 touchdowns.

Baltimore vs. Oakland: Oakland...pffft! Ravens...by 20.

Cool link, wolf...Packers fans are kicking ass, with Chiefs fans not too far behind.

The only reason the Rams won today is because of stupid Seahawks penalties and a back judge that tripped over himself. A win's a win though.

NFC probowl selections...comments?


WR Randy Moss Vikings 99 rec., 1,465 yds., 14 TDs
WR Torry Holt Rams 102 rec., 1,518 yds., 11 TDs
WR Terrell Owens 49ers 79 rec., 1,082 yds, 9 TDs
WR Anquan Boldin Cardinals 86 recs, 1,228 yds, 7 TDs
OT Orlando Pace Rams 5th Pro Bowl selection
OT Flozell Adams Cowboys 1st Pro Bowl selection
OT Walter Jones Seahawks 4th Pro Bowl selection
OG Larry Allen Cowboys 8th Pro Bowl selection
OG LeCharles Bentley Saints 1st Pro Bowl selection
OG Marco Rivera Packers 2nd Pro Bowl selection
C Olin Kreutz Bears 3rdd Pro Bowl selection
C Matt Birk Vikings 3rd Pro Bowl selection
TE Alge Crumpler Falcons 40 recs, 519 yds, 2 TDs
TE Jeremy Shockey Giants 48 recs, 535 yds, 2 TDs
QB Daunte Culpepper Vikings 257-397, 3,022 yds, 21 TDs
QB Donovan McNabb Eagles 235-419, 2,736 yds, 12 TDs
QB Brett Favre Packers 274-420, 2,846 yds, 27 TDs
RB Deuce McAllister Saints 309 att., 1,542 yds, 8 TDs
RB Ahman Green Packers 311 att., 1,538 yds., 12 TDs
RB Stephen Davis Panthers 307 carries, 1,387, 8 TDs
FB Fred Beasley 49ers 1st Pro Bowl selection

Defense
Pos. Player Team Stats
DE Michael Strahan Giants 14 sacks, 5 pass breakups
DE Leonard Little Rams 12 sacks, 1 INT
DE Simeon Rice Bucs 15 sacks, 2 INTs
DT Kris Jenkins Panthers 5 sacks, 9½ tkls for loss
DT La'Roi Glover Cowboys 3 sacks, 5½ tkls for loss
DT Warren Sapp Bucs 34 tkls, 5 sacks
OLB Derrick Brooks Bucs 91 tkls, 2 INTs
OLB Julian Peterson 49ers 5½ sacks, 2 INTs
OLB LaVar Arrington Redskins 5 sacks, 11 pass breakups
ILB Brian Urlacher Bears 100 tkls, 4 pass breakups
ILB Keith Brooking Falcons 117 tkls, 2 pass breakups
CB Dre' Bly Lions 6 INTs, 14 pass breakups
CB Troy Vincent Eagles 3 INTs, 8 pass breakups
CB Champ Bailey Redskins 2 INTs, 8 pass breakups
SS Corey Chavous Vikings 8 INTs, 12 pass breakups
FS Aeneas Williams Rams 4 INTs, 8 pass breakups
FS Roy Williams Cowboys 2 sacks, 2 INTs

Specialist
Pos. Player Team Stats
Punter Todd Sauerbrun Panthers 41.2 net avg., 9 touchbacks
Kicker Jeff Wilkins Rams 35-38 FGs, 41-41 PATs
Returner Jerry Azumah Bears 32 kick rets, 971 yds, 2 TDs
Special teamer Alex Bannister Seahawks 1st Pro Bowl selection

comments?

WR Marvin Harrison Colts 86 rec., 1,153 yds., 10 TDs
WR Chad Johnson Bengals 79 rec., 1,211 yds., 10 TDs
WR Hines Ward Steelers 87 recs, 1,058 yds, 9 TDs
WR Derrick Mason Titans 85 rec, 1,169 yds, 6 TDs
OT Jonathan Ogden Ravens 7th Pro Bowl selection
OT Willie Anderson Bengals 3rd Pro Bowl selection
OT Willie Roaf Chiefs 9th Pro Bowl selection
OG Alan Faneca Steelers 3rd Pro Bowl selection
OG Will Shields Chiefs 9th Pro Bowl selection
OG Ruben Brown Bills 8th Pro Bowl selection
C Kevin Mawae Jets 5th Pro Bowl selection
C Tom Nalen Broncos 5th Pro Bowl selection
TE Tony Gonzalez Chiefs 60 rec., 797, 10 TDs
TE Todd Heap Ravens 55 rec., 678 yds., 3 TDs
QB Peyton Manning Colts 341-505, 3,901 yds, 28 TDs
QB Steve McNair Titans 233-364, 2,947 yds, 22 TDs
QB Trent Green Chiefs 293-458, 3,653 yds, 23 TDs
RB Priest Holmes Chiefs 282 att., 1,315 yds., 22 TDs
RB Jamal Lewis Ravens 338 att., 1,747 yds., 11 TDs
RB Clinton Portis Broncos 290 att., 1,591 yds, 14 TDs
FB Tony Richardson Chiefs 1st Pro Bowl selection

Defense
Pos. Player Team Stats
DE Adewale Ogunleye Dolphins 13 sacks, 4½ tkls for loss
DE Dwight Freeney Colts 11 sacks, 2 tkls for loss
DE Shaun Ellis Jets 62 tkls, 11½ sacks
DT Richard Seymour Patriots 52 tkls, 7½ sacks
DT Marcus Stroud Jags 59 tkls, 4½ sacks
DT Casey Hampton Steelers 35 tkls, 1 sack
OLB Keith Bulluck Titans 121 tkls, 3 sacks
OLB Peter Boulware Ravens 57 tkls, 7½ sacks
OLB Takeo Spikes Bills 108 tkls, 2 sacks
ILB Ray Lewis Ravens 147 tkls, 5 INTs
ILB Zach Thomas Dolphins 132 tkls, 3 INTs
CB Chris McAlister Ravens 11 breakups, 2 INTs
CB Ty Law Patriots 62 tkls, 5 INTs
CB Patrick Surtain Dolphins 7 INTs, 13 pass breakups
SS Ed Reed Ravens 65 tkls, 6 INTs
FS Brock Marion Dolphins 72 tkls, 3 INTs
FS Jerome Woods Chiefs 68 tkls, 3 INTs

Specialist
Pos. Player Team Stats
Punter Craig Hentrich Titans 39.1 avg., 6 touchbacks
Kicker Mike Vanderjagt Colts 34-34 FGs, 42-42 PATs
Returner Dante Hall Chiefs 1,753 total ret. yds, 4 total ret. TDs
Special teamer Adalius Thomas Ravens 1st Pro Bowl selection

Kicker Jeff Wilkins Rams 35-38 FGs, 41-41 PATs

A terrible injustice has been done.

what happened to akers?

the hit he put on that cowboy a couple sundays ago during the kick return should have gotten him in.

My eyes focused on the AFC, and here:

QB Peyton Manning Colts 341-505, 3,901 yds, 28 TDs
QB Steve McNair Titans 233-364, 2,947 yds, 22 TDs
QB Trent Green Chiefs 293-458, 3,653 yds, 23 TDs

I’d love to see Tom Brady of the Pat’s get a nod, but the above numbers are better than:

281-470, 3,728 yds, 17 TD’s

Perhaps I’ll have to settle, for the Super Bowl MVP?

ps: ESPN.com said 3,278 yds, but ESPN just said 3,738. So, being a “Homer”, I took the bigger number. :rolleyes:

Bob ;)

Wilkins: 35-38 FGs, 41-41 PATs
Akers: 23-26 FGs, 34-34 PATs

And the injustice is?

No Faulk or Bruce...a shame. That's alright though...both are headed for Canton.

As a whole, it seems like a well-rounded group.

The Ravens have 8 going?! Shit...

And for Steelers fans, now it's looking at how high in the draft they will be...

[CODE] 1 .....Arizona 3 11
2 ...San Diego 3 11
3 .....Atlanta 3 11
4 .....Oakland 4 10
5 ...NY Giants 4 10
6 .....Detroit 4 10
7 ...Cleveland 4 10
8 Jacksonville 4 10
9 ..Pittsburgh 5 9
10 ..Washington 5 9
11 .....Houston 5 9[/CODE]

We should be able to draft an OT that can start if we pick in the top 10. It'll be hard to lose to SD at home, but hopefully we will fall to the Ravens to bottom out the season. :(

Originally posted by sycamore
Wilkins: 35-38 FGs, 41-41 PATs
Akers: 23-26 FGs, 34-34 PATs

And the injustice is?

wilkins kicks in a dome at least 8 games a year

So, you're trading the wind for noise level/concentration and artificial turf. Some would say that's an even trade. The guy's having a good year...the only kicker that's probably having a better year than him is Vanderjagt in Indianapolis.

a little noise is hardly the same thing as the varied and often unfavorable turf /wind qualities. I take nothing away from wilkins, he's a nice kicker. must have been a close vote.....believe me when i say I'm no Eagles fan, but I would take Akers over Wilkins any day. I mean, did you see the hit I mentioned,,,,from a kicker! that was a nice hit for a safety. and he's a regular dude.

obviously, though, the pros felt differently, and they know more than I do, so go figure. he should have gotten miss congeniality at least.

and yet, I see Larry Allen made the squad for the 8th year in a row, and from what I've been able to watch this year, I don;t think he really deserves it. I think Flozell does, but Larry takes plays off now. Ir's a bit of habit, a bit of stats, and a bit popularity....I think Madden has a lot to do with it.....seems like when he gets locked on a guy and starts with the typical verbal blowjob for the remainder of the game, that guy makes the allpro team. Remember how he loved Nate Newton?

I only watched the first quarter of my Chief's beginning of the end of the season. Without a defense, no team can win an NFL championship, and my team has *no* defense.

Did I mention that I can't bear to watch anymore? It all seemed so good, it seemed like it was our year, and now...pfffftttt! They're going up in smoke.

Chiefs will lose in the first round of the playoffs, again.

Ep, you're starting to sound like a Philadelphia sports fan. :)

Today was a good day for football in la casa del sicómoro. The Rams played a good all-around game and beat the Bengals. Baltimore destroyed Cleveland, and moved back into first in the AFC North. The Niners hung tough and beat the Eagles in OT, putting the Rams into the drivers seat for home-field advantage.

All the Rams have to do is beat the Lions next Sunday...and that can't be THAT hard. And while they could get it if the Eagles lose Saturday, I'd hate to see the Eagles lose the first-round bye and go into the playoffs losing two in a row to overall shitty teams.

(Oh, and the Ravens have to beat the Steelers next Sunday night...sorry Griff.)

Let's look at the predictions of yore (yore meaning back in September)...

Michael Wilbon of the Washington Post predicted the following:

And now, the fearless picks. In the NFC, the Rams, Packers, Bucs and Giants will win their divisions. The Eagles and Saints will earn the wild-card spots. Favre will be the MVP. In the AFC, the Raiders, Steelers, Colts and Dolphins will win their divisions. The Chiefs and Ravens will earn wild cards. Portis and Williams will rush for 2,000 yards and Williams will be the MVP.

Tampa Bay will repeat by beating the Steelers in the Super Bowl.

So far, he's only gotten one thing right--the Rams, though he could get the Colts and Dolphins right. His Super Bowl prediction was shot to hell early (my condolences, Griff).

Chewie sure as shit ain't getting a cheesesteak from me...the Giants in the Super Bowl...pffft! (My condolences.)

Ep said the Chiefs would take the AFC West. Nice call. Don't count them out yet...they could be the surprise of the playoffs.

My predictions were the Eagles not going 12-4 and the Rams at 10-6. The latter is one prediction I'm happy to have fucked up.

Eagles could end up 12-4, but if they fuck up next weekend and Dallas wins (which I'm sure Jimbo is salivating over), they'll be 11-5 and will have pissed away a good playoff setup.

I hate Washington...go Eagles! I desperately want a repeat of the NFC Championship 2 years ago.

My playoff predictions are as follows:

NFC First Week:
Dallas (3) over Green Bay (6)
Carolina (4) over Minnesota (5)

Divisional Playoff:
St. Louis (1) over Carolina
Philadelphia (2) over Dallas

Championship:
St. Louis over Philadelphia

AFC First Week:
Baltimore (6) over Kansas City (3)
Tennessee (4) over Miami (5)

Divisional Playoff:
New England (1) over Baltimore
Indianapolis (2) over Tennessee

Championship:
New England over Indianapolis

Super Bowl 38: St. Louis over New England in a rematch of Super Bowl 36.

As we sit in KC, watching the wheels falling off our team on successive weekends, I found a glimmer of humor (and believe me, I need humor badly right now)...

Down the street a couple of blocks, there lives a rabid Chiefs fan. So rabid, in fact, that he flies a Chiefs flag on his flagpole. No US flag, just a Chiefs flag.

Today, it was flying at half mast...

Originally posted by sycamore
My playoff predictions are as follows:

AFC First Week:
Tennessee (4) over Miami (5)

That would be "over Denver." (This is why I never make predictions until all of the slots have been decided.)

Originally posted by sycamore

(Oh, and the Ravens have to beat the Steelers next Sunday night...sorry Griff.)

Any team other than the dirty birds and I'm rooting for the draft pick. Unfortunately, its the Ravens they must go down!

Originally posted by Griff


Any team other than the dirty birds and I'm rooting for the draft pick. Unfortunately, its the Ravens they must go down!

Yes, I'm with 'ya there, Griff. I hate the Ravens as much as I used to hate the Cowboys.

My husband and I are Steelers fans in the SF Bay Area, and my brother and his wife are a pair of Steelers fans in Minnesota. We all moved out of the 'Burgh over 5 years ago.

Originally posted by vsp
That would be "over Denver." (This is why I never make predictions until all of the slots have been decided.)

Yeah, that Indy/Denver game was a surprise to me...maybe it shouldn't have been.

Not to mention, I fucked up the Eagles scenario as well: If Philadelphia loses and Dallas wins next weekend, the Eagles automatically drop to the 5th seed and will have to go on the road...probably to Minnesota.

Griff, I'd like to introduce you to a good friend of mine...his name is Reality...and when the Ravens rack up 40+ points on the Steelers next weekend, I'm going to have a beer ready and waiting for you to cry in. :)

Originally posted by sycamore

Griff, I'd like to introduce you to a good friend of mine...his name is Reality...and when the Ravens rack up 40+ points on the Steelers next weekend, I'm going to have a beer ready and waiting for you to cry in. :)

You're funny! :) Looks like Radar is right. ;)

It's sad, isn't it?

Poor Griff...he's finally lost it.

Let's review some stats, shall we?

Average points scored by Ravens per game: 25.2
Average points scored by Steelers per game: 19.3
Average points scored by Ravens over last 5 games: 33.2
Average points scored by Steelers over last 5 games: 20
Number of wins by Ravens in 2003: 9
Number of wins by Steelers in 2003: 6

Now granted, Pittsburgh won the first meeting of the season, 34-15...in the first week of the season.

Here Griff...I'm going to give you that beer now. :)

If the Ravens can lose to Oakland, they can certainly lose to Pittsburgh.

Anybody can lose to anybody in today's NFL...even the Rams had close calls against Arizona, Seattle and Cleveland this season.

Originally posted by sycamore
Anybody can lose to anybody in today's NFL...even the Rams had close calls against Arizona, Seattle and Cleveland this season.

case in point

Of course, that was the first week of the season, when the Giants were thought to be Super Bowl contenders...

23 unanswered points...Jesus Christ...I don't know what happened with the Rams today. The offense just sucked ass.

The road leads through Philadelphia...maybe...

"AFC First Week:
Baltimore (6) over Kansas City (3)
Tennessee (4) over Miami (5)

Divisional Playoff:
New England (1) over Baltimore
Indianapolis (2) over Tennessee

Championship:
New England over Indianapolis

Super Bowl 38: St. Louis over New England in a rematch of Super Bowl 36."

Darn, I thought you had it right - untill the last part.


heh, heh ....................:rattat:

[SIZE=4]Pats 17, Rams 13.[/SIZE]

Chiefs defense showed up today. It wasn't a perfect performance, but it was miles better than the past six weeks have been. Offense looked snappy, but not at peak.

Chiefs will have a tough game on their hands no matter who wins the wild card game next weekend. I'm putting my money on the Colts, and I think the Chiefs *can* beat them in Arrowhead, but it is going to take a superior effort on our part.

Interesting day today in the NFL, all in all.

Just found this thread. I've been reading it for the last hour and a half. Interesting stuff. I'd like to add some comments if I may?

Back before the Detroit game, I thought the Rams had a lock on making it to the Super Bowl. We'd have home field advantage the whole way. That's a good thing since it's so freakin loud in that stadium the other team is at a severe disadvantage. I think the only other place louder is Tennessee's stadium (which is outdoor!) I don’t think the Rams have lost at home in something like 13 games? I can’t remember and I can’t find it online.

Seems that now the road to the big game is through Philly. That makes me squeamish. I’m not sure that’s a game we’ll win. In a way, I would like to see Philly make the bowl anyway. I can understand their frustration of getting close year after year and not making it. I’m a Blues fan also and it’s been that way for us in hockey. Always getting knocked out by the eventual champs.

I had high hopes of a Rams – Chiefs Superbowl though. That would have been so cool.

The Eagles are so injured it's just not funny. I can't believe Brian Westbrook is out. That guy is a phenomenal runner. The last game he deked a linebacker so bad he wasn't even touched. That rarely happens in the NFL.

They had to stop the game while they looked for the linebacker's jock, because he was deked right out of it. Shades of Walter Payton, dare I say it.

But now Westbrook has a tear in his arm muscle and they have to operate. They might see if it's not too bad and let him play out the year and then operate, but if he fell on it or something it could be career-ending.

Originally posted by Undertoad
But now Westbrook has a tear in his arm muscle and they have to operate. They might see if it's not too bad and let him play out the year and then operate, but if he fell on it or something it could be career-ending.

LA LA LA LA LA I can't hear you! LA LA LA LA LA

Don't even THINK the words "career-ending."

As it is, minus Westbrook, minus Emmons, with it hard to say whether Vincent will be at 100% against Green Bay, Seattle or Dallas... I honestly didn't think they were going all the way this year _anyway_, but this seals it for me.

SUCK IT UP. VSP

I'm a cowboys fan, but if I was gonna bet on a superbowl participant from the NFC, it'd be the eagles. they still have deuce and buck......and jim johnson could put a defense together with our mothers. you guys are due. enjoy the ride!

This is Philadelphia you're talking about. NO Philly team is EVER "due." It's in the blood, it is the curse we bear...

If Westbrook is out -- or, worse, if they strap him into protective gear and trot him out there at less than 100% -- that's a big offensive threat out of the picture, and a major blow to the RB-by-committee system they've been using. (I've never been THAT sold on Duce, and Buckhalter is adequate at best.) If the offense comes down to "give the ball to Donovan and wait for a miracle," they're done. (That's no slam on Donovan, either, because that's a burden no QB should be asked to bear. Even my favorite QB of all time (Elway) couldn't win a Super Bowl via smoke and mirrors -- they needed a solid running game.)

I just don't see the Eagles as a sufficiently dominant team to win two tough playoff games while dealing with a lot of injuries. I don't know who'll win the NFC Championship, but I wouldn't give the Eagles better odds than anyone else right now.

My picks:

Tennessee over Baltimore
Carolina over Dallas
Green Bay over Seattle
Denver over Indianapolis

followed by

New England over Denver
Tennessee over Kansas City
Green Bay over Philadelphia
St. Louis over Carolina

and I'll see what the injury front looks like before predicting further.

Originally posted by sycamore
Chewie sure as shit ain't getting a cheesesteak from me...the Giants in the Super Bowl...pffft! (My condolences.)

I would like to just say I was there at all the ends. I was there for the last win of this season, I was there for the last game, and I was there for Fassel's final walk.

*raises his glass

Fare thee well, Jim. Be good to yourself, sir.

Next year, everyone. A healthy Collins, a protected Collins, a healthy Shockey, Will-power back on the field, Mitchell's ass on the curb with a nice healthy shoeprint for decoration...these are the things that must be. These are the things that will be.

Freakin' Panthers and Chiefs in the playoffs...it ain't right man...it ain't right...

An upset is coming...and I predict it will either be the Eagles or the Rams. (I think the Chiefs will lose their first game too, but that's not really an upset, IMO...sorry, Ep.)

Syc, what did you think of the pounding that Bulger took at Detroit? Warner coming in surprised me. He didn't do very much at all either, which didn't surprise me.

Syc, I wish I could say you were wrong, but I fear the first round loss for the Chiefs as well.

However, after their performance on Sunday, I think I will at least wait to see the game played before despairing any further.

Don't give up on that Rams/Chiefs Superbowl just yet. It would be *awesome*.

Originally posted by stlbob
Syc, what did you think of the pounding that Bulger took at Detroit? Warner coming in surprised me. He didn't do very much at all either, which didn't surprise me.

Well, I think Marc just got his cage rattled a bit. Offensive line sucked ass, and Bulger lost his confidence. I'm not surprised that Warner was brought in, though the injury to Bulger was on his non-throwing hand.

Just finished reading Miklasz, Gordon and Burwell in the Post-Dispatch...and I generally agree with what they're saying. Except that they seem to fear the Eagles a bit too much. I've watched all but one Eagles game this season. They are indeed good, but they ain't THAT good.

A Rams/Chiefs Super Bowl would be fantastic...or a Rams/Ravens one...

From today's Baltimore Sun...

Ahahahahaha!

Fuck Washington and their piece of shit team.

Gary Anderson

Fuck you, Griff. :)

Stoopid stoopid Orlando Brown...

At the risk of sounding like I'm trolling you all, I will say this anyway.......

On my flight back from Chicago a couple of weeks ago, the guy sitting next to me was former Raider great linebacker Phil Villapiano (77 Super Bowl team). What a character. He was going to a celebrity golf torny in Monterrey.

Anyway, I asked him who he thought would be in the Super Bowl. He said it was wide open, but we could see an all Missouri Super Bowl. His buddy was a guy from the Giants that I didn't know. That guy thought that the Rams offense would have a hard time in Philly if it were cold.

It was interesting how Villapiano still hated the Steelers a lot.

I asked him what he thought of the Keyshawn Johnson situation. He said "Man, would I love to tackle THAT guy."

Also, I asked him if the Raiders were the first NFL team to use the 3-4 as a base defense. He said no, it was Denver. After the Raiders saw what it did to their offense, and the DL injuries, they adopted it next.

Damn, Phil Villapiano was one of the guys who defined the 3-4 Outside Linebacker position.

He didn't start talking to me until his laptop battery went dead. The movie was terrible. So, we were both glad to have a good conversation to get us thru the rest of the flight.

Are you sure you're a girl? We have a lot of trannys around.

UT, you're gonna scare the poor girl. But I like a woman that can talk football. That's why I love Rhoda so much. :joylove:

Keyshawn Johnson is a fucking liability. He's a good player, but he runs his mouth too damned much...and doesn't always live up to his own hype. Terrell Owens and Randy Moss are also in this vein. Owens and Johnson will probably not get their true value in the free agent market this winter, though I could see either of them winding up in St. Louis next year.

St. Louis seems to have a calming effect on sports figures--I present Kyle Turley (Rams) and Scott Rolen (Cardinals) as examples of headcases that have mellowed since moving to a St. Louis sports team. For that matter, you could throw in Keith Tkachuk (Blues) too, though he's mellowed as a whole since the '98 Olympics.

Originally posted by Undertoad
Are you sure you're a girl? We have a lot of trannys around.

You do? Well, that explains a lot about Wolf. :3eye:

Wolf is all woman. In fact, far more woman than most of us can handle, I think. I have enormous respect for her because of this, and for Slang, as well...

This is one of the great things about The Cellar. We have women here who talk football, appreciate firearms, are willing to talk about piercings and other oddities...

This is a special place for both the gents and the ladies.

Originally posted by Gwennie!


You do? Well, that explains a lot about Wolf. :3eye:

No, it doesn't.

I'm original equipment.

And straight.

Originally posted by Elspode
Wolf is all woman. In fact, far more woman than most of us can handle, I think. I have enormous respect for her because of this, [color=blue]and for Slang[/color], as well...

This is one of the great things about The Cellar. We have women here who talk football, appreciate firearms, are willing to talk about piercings and other oddities...

This is a special place for both the gents and the ladies.

uh, I think that slang is a boy, but I can't say for sure if he's too much woman for you to handle......


And I think I know his real name, too. Definately not a girl's name.


oh, you meant, that slang can handle wolf.....I didn;t know there was somthing going on there.

Originally posted by lumberjim
oh, you meant, that slang can handle wolf.....

Yes, he's Permitted.

I think the most intriguing potential SB would be Colts v Packers. The changing of the guard as top NFL QB. That would be fun to watch.

Originally posted by vsp
My picks:

Tennessee over Baltimore
Carolina over Dallas
Green Bay over Seattle
Denver over Indianapolis

followed by

New England over Denver
Tennessee over Kansas City
Green Bay over Philadelphia
St. Louis over Carolina

and I'll see what the injury front looks like before predicting further.

Three out of four ain't bad.

My NFC picks stand. As for the AFC, since there are different matchups, I'll revise:

Indianapolis over Kansas City: Can I vote for a tie and some obscure NFL by-law that'd eliminate both teams? There are two AFC teams I wouldn't mind watching in the Super Bowl, and these aren't them.

I'll go with Indy, only because (a) I really don't like Kansas City and (b) if someone tells Indy's defense "To win, you'll have to shut down the offensive juggernaut that is Trent Green," they'll respond "Sure."

New England over Tennessee: I like the Titans a lot, but they're awfully banged up and that's got to come out somewhere. I think it'll be close, at least.

How impressive was Peyton Manning Sunday? That boy has a cannon for an arm! I was all happy watching Indy kick the livin doggie doo outta Denver until they started doing their little taunting dance during kickoffs. I hate that stuff. Makes me mad. I hated it when the Rams did their little end zone dance during the 99 Super Bowl run too. Not too professional. Hey, here's a thought, why don't you act like you've been there before?

One of the greatest joys of having Marcus Allen finish his career here in KC was the sheer, pure class of the man. He would make one of the most amazing touchdown runs I've ever seen, then simply trot over to the Ref and hand him the ball. No frigging dancing, no finger pointing, no jumping up and down and acting like he was the greatest thing since Jehovah decided to rape Mary.

They don't make 'em like Marcus any more. What the hell ever happened to humility?

i dont mind the dancing as much as the guys like james thrash who have to point at the sky and thank jesus for an 8 yard reception. gimme a break.

Originally posted by Elspode
They don't make 'em like Marcus any more. What the hell ever happened to humility?

The humils died out because they couldn't get the girls.

I didn't see anything wrong with the Rams' Bob-n-Weave...it's not like they were taunting anybody, pulling Sharpies out of their sock, pulling cell phones out, or running to the middle of the opposing team's field. It was fun...and you don't see any other teams really doing that anymore.

Originally posted by lumberjim
i dont mind the dancing as much as the guys like james thrash who have to point at the sky and thank jesus for an 8 yard reception. gimme a break.

If I were James Thrash, I'd probably give praise every time I caught a ball, too: A so-so receiver who attended a Div II school and now plays for one of the best teams in the NFL.

Originally posted by Elspode
Wolf is all woman. In fact, far more woman than most of us can handle, I think. I have enormous respect for her because of this, and for Slang, as well...

Wolf reminds me of one of my best friends growing up--Holly. Holly was the only gal in our group, out of the 8 or 9 of us regulars. She was all woman, but could easily hold her own with the guys. And Lord knows we gave her more than enough shit. :)

Originally posted by Elspode
One of the greatest joys of having Marcus Allen finish his career here in KC was the sheer, pure class of the man. He would make one of the most amazing touchdown runs I've ever seen, then simply trot over to the Ref and hand him the ball. No frigging dancing, no finger pointing, no jumping up and down and acting like he was the greatest thing since Jehovah decided to rape Mary.

They don't make 'em like Marcus any more. What the hell ever happened to humility?

Yes. The performance speaks for itself. Leave the Sharpies and Cell Phones at home, boyz. Go for spontaneous celebration with your teammates; you didn't do it all by yourself.

Originally posted by lumberjim
i dont mind the dancing as much as the guys like james thrash who have to point at the sky and thank jesus for an 8 yard reception. gimme a break.

Yep. The conservative pundants complain about liberal musicians and how they should just "Shut up and sing". Well, same goes for religious players: "Shut up and play".

The game is your employer's stage; you are paid to perform, not to steal a piece of the stage for your own politics, whatever that may be.

Originally posted by sycamore
I didn't see anything wrong with the Rams' Bob-n-Weave...it's not like they were taunting anybody, pulling Sharpies out of their sock, pulling cell phones out, or running to the middle of the opposing team's field. It was fun...and you don't see any other teams really doing that anymore.

I think the reason you don't see it anymore is because the No Fun League made it illegal in 2000 to stop the Rams from doing it. You make a good point about it being better than some of the other things, but I still saw it as taunting the other team. For the record, I still live in St. Louis and am a Rams fan.

Joe Gibbs going back to coach the Redskins?!

Are you fucking serious?!

Jesus...that almost makes me want to like the Redskins again...except there's that whole Dan Snyder thing...

i used to hate him...and theisman...and riggs. since spurrier and turner have had the helm, they've been such a non factor, that the nfc east was a bit boring. i welcome him back, and just hope he hasn't lost what he had that made him so good. now if the Gints could get their shit together, the nfc east could be a whole lot of fun.

does he still do the race car thing?

Yes...from the Washington Post:

"But rest assured, I remain personally committed to Joe Gibbs Racing and each and every sponsor who supports the many employees of Joe Gibbs Racing."

I have just witnessed one of the most bizarre football games ever...

The Rams offense was good...except in the red zone. Couldn't score touchdowns. The Rams then took a page from the Baltimore Ravens playbook of old and were leading on field goals.

Carolina was running all over the place. Stephen Davis gets hurt. No problem...they use DeShaun Foster and Nick Goings. The Panthers make incredibly stupid mistakes...at one point, it's 1st and 35 for them. But the Rams can't get the ball into the end zone...and Bulger throws 2 interceptions. After a few lead changes on field goals, the Panthers score a TD. With just over 4 minutes left in the game, the Panthers are up by 11.

Suddenly, Marshall Faulk wills the Rams back to life. Finally, they score a touchdown. 23-20, Panthers, with 2 1/2 minutes left.

Jeff Wilkins makes an onside kick...and recovers it himself. The Rams get down to the Panthers 15 yard line with 23 seconds and one time out left. But Martz lets the clock run down to 3 seconds before calling a time out. Wilkins's kick is good. 23-23...we're going into overtime.

Panthers move the ball down to the Rams 21 yard line. They get pushed back a yard, and send John Kasay out to attempt a 40-yard field goal.

Delay of game on the Panthers. 5 yard penalty. After a couple of attempts to get more yardage, Kasay goes back on the field to attempt a 45-yard field goal.

Wide right.

Rams get the ball back and march down to the Panthers 35 yard line. Jeff Wilkins comes out to attempt a 53-yard field goal.

Just short.

Panthers get the ball back, but wind up punting in the end. Rams get the ball back and move it down to the Panthers 35 yard line. Bulger attempts to pass to Big Game Torry Holt...

Interception. After a couple of attempts by the Panthers to move the ball, the 1st overtime quarter is over.

The first play of the second overtime quarter: a 69-yard pass by Jake Delhomme to Steve Smith. Panthers 29, Rams 23.

My hopes for 2004:

--Mike Martz is fired...he's crazy.
--Marc Bulger is traded.
--Kurt Warner is given one more shot to return to his former glory.
--Lovie Smith stays in St. Louis and is named head coach.

At least now, I can root for the Eagles again...

My hearts throbbing.

I just knew that the Titans are the best team we have faced, all year.

Colts, no.... Chiefs, no .... You need to find some "D"

So, let me figure this out:

Next week is for the AFC Championship - and a trip to the Super Bowl.

Bring it on!

Go Pats!!!!!

I think what's good about Gibbs taking over is that "Dan from Bethesda" has finally found an owner that he can kowtow to. And I mean that in a good way.

Dan Snyder has finally found an owner that he can disagree with and accept it. THAT is what is different about Gibbs versus the other coaches Snyder hired. Snyder actually trusts Gibbs.

Originally posted by Beestie
Dan Snyder has finally found an owner that he can disagree with and accept it. THAT is what is different about Gibbs versus the other coaches Snyder hired. Snyder actually trusts Gibbs.

You hope...I still wouldn't trust Snyder any further than I can throw him.

The Chiefs should be expecting a very nice Xmas card from the Colts next year. They gift wrapped the game today and handed it to them.

Yep...the Chiefs' D just couldn't stop 'em.

[SIZE=4]Eagles![/SIZE]

First-down Freddie comes through on 4th and 26... Favre makes the worst decision of his entire life... Akers misses a close one in the wind and makes up for it with the game-tying FG AND the game-winning FG...

THIS is the team of destiny.

The Eagles will be sending Brett Favre lots of thank you cards this week. The Eagles found their game towards the end of the fourth quarter, but Favre's airball in OT made it possible for Akers's game-winning FG.

Bring on the Panthers!

"Why no Philadelphia Eagles, YOU go to the NFC Championship game. I INSIST." - Brett Favre.

That's it. Irrefutable proof that this season, the Eagles have initiated the largest systemized bribery ring in NFL history. Refs, Brian Mitchell, and now Favre.

Granted, the Eagles got lucky tonight...and have been fortunate in that they've weathered a so-so offense and a beat-up defense...but they're not THAT lucky. They're a good team. Good enough to beat Carolina next Sunday night.

Fourteen minutes in between my post and Syc's newest one...I suppose that's enough time to confirm that the check cleared.

Hmm...

I know...you're just mad b/c you're not getting the free cheesesteak I offered you at the beginning of the season.

I believe that Favre just made an abrupt on-the-field decision to change careers and cash out his pension plan. Not that I'm complaining, but QBs for Central Bucks West wouldn't have made that throw.

If the Eagles lose to Carolina, expect a razor-blade shortage in the Philly area, because _nobody_ will be able to handle it. ;)

I blame the Green Bay coaches for handing the game to the Eagles. The way the game was progressing, they should have continued to hammer Green down the Eagles' throats.

I believe that yesterday's game was a bit of social concern in the NFL, and that Favre and his coaches were very desirous of a black quarterback to do well. ;)

/fat gasbag

Originally posted by sycamore
Yep...the Chiefs' D just couldn't stop 'em.

I still say that the Chiefs are the best half of a football team in the NFL.

But there won't be a Chiefs/Rams SuperBowl this year. :(

I want a Colts-Panthers SB. The Colts, because I picked them to win the thing, and the Panthers, because my faith in God's existence can only take so many body blows.

[SIZE=4][COLOR=blue]THERE IS A GOD!!!![/SIZE][/COLOR]

That was an ugly ugly game. Carolina was solid though, and they deserve that trip to Houston.

Nah. Nothing's proven. The Eagles just suck ass.

At least my sister, who lives in Rhode Island, will be spared the difficult decision of who to root for ...

Two teams I like facing each other in the Super Bowl... I must be living right. It's only happened a handful of times since the late seventies, which is when I started watching the game, and I had a stretch of nearly 20 consecutive years where the team I wanted to win the Super Bowl _always_ lost. XXXI (Green Bay - New England in '97) was the first time I didn't have an active rooting interest -- i.e. I didn't have a motherfucking Cowboys, Giants, motherfucking Raiders, Redskins, motherfucking 49ers or Steelers to root against.

'86 doesn't really count, because even the Patriots knew they didn't belong on the field against the Bears that year...

I'm actually getting excited this year. If the Pats and the Panthers bring the game they brought yesterday, we might actually see the first good Super Bowl since XXV (Giants-Bills).

Think about it. Tell me when, since XXV, there's been a Super Bowl that hasn't been decided by halftime. Hell, I'll be generous, decided before the fourth quarter.

the rams/titans wasn;t exciting? what was that 3 inches on the last play of the game?

I can't answer that, as that was the Super Bowl I didn't watch due to lack of someone to watch with and lack of interest in the outcome of the game.

No disrespect to those that like those teams/that game, I just heard "St. Louis Rams against the Tennessee Titans" and couldn't get excited over it.

Who the hell EVER watches it for the game? It's probably the worst football of the year.

It's all about the commercials!

Understandable. As stated, in the last 13 games, there's been only one (possibly two, I'ma check out that Titans/Rams one now) good one.

However...hope springs eternal.

Super Bowl 34 was a fantastic battle won only by a Mike Jones tackle and a sweet Isaac Bruce reception. Go check your history, fool!

Ya know, I'm glad that Carolina made the Super Bowl, since it's their first ever trip. But I could care less who wins at this point.

The following is an article posted in the Charolette Observer that a friend in North Carolina sent to me yesterday in an email. I could not verify it since you are required to log on and I was to lazy to do so. Since I am aware that there are many here from the Philly area, I include it for your amusement.

Posted on Tue, Jan. 20, 2004

COMMENTARY
Philly fans let the bad apples ruin the bunch
TOM SORENSEN


PHILADELPHIA - When their team loses, some people look at the sky and blame the Sports God. There is no Sports God. There is only a Sports Deity.

He is not affiliated with a particular religion. He works free-lance. His role is to favor those who deserve it and punish those who don't.

This explains why Philadelphia never wins anything.

Philadelphia doesn't deserve a championship in any of the major sports or hockey. I keep hearing about the long-suffering fans who give their hearts and souls to their team, and I kind of feel for them.

But the good fans allowed the bad fans to turn the Carolina Panthers' lopsided 14-3 victory at Lincoln Financial Field into White Trash on Sunday night.

I don't like to stereotype. Not every fan at the NFC championship was bitter. Perhaps no more than one in five was.

My wife, Sharon, sat with three other Panthers fans in a $105 (face value) seat. She had entire cups of beer thrown at her. Fans spit on her. And the only manifestation of her allegiance was her toes, which were painted blue and black and covered with layers of socks, foot-warmers and shoes.

Behind her sat a man who dared wear a Panthers cap. Before the game, an Eagles fan asked him what right he had to be at the stadium. The fan was serious.

Late in the game, a guy who had been taunting the Carolina fans, a skinny guy, hopped the security fence he had been standing behind, sprinted down the stairs, slapped the man in the Panthers cap in the back of the head and sprinted back up the stairs. It was a classic hit and run, something with which to amuse friends and family for years. Wait until the guy's parents find out.

So what you're telling me, son, is that you ran up, whacked him and ran off? We always knew you'd amount to something. The only thing that would make us prouder would be if you stopped spending your money, ours actually, on all things Eagles and get a job and perhaps an apartment.

The idea presumably was to entice the Panthers fan to chase the guy back over the fence, where friends waited. Security men tackled the whack-and-run guy before he could return to his seat.

Two Eagles fans in front of my wife fought each other. One of the guys was huge. To break up the fight, as many as seven security officials and police officers and a can of mace were required. To put this in perspective, Carolina running back DeShaun Foster did not break seven tackles on his 1-yard touchdown run.

Christy Burton, who is married to Carolina defensive tackle Shane Burton, sat near my wife. Burton is 6-foot-6 and 305 pounds. Christy is not. She, too, was treated to a shower of beer.

Fans above them threw quarters. The scariest incident was when a 10-year-old kid was hit from behind with a cup. Cups don't hurt much, but who knew what would be thrown next? Plus, kids lucky enough to have a ticket ought to have the right to feel safe.

It's fine to get your kicks vicariously through a team. But at some point you have to step back and, even though your heart might be broken, move on. If your team is the most important thing in your life, you might think about starting over.

You can lose yourself in Carolina's Super Bowl run, think about it every hour of every day. Charlotte has never buzzed and hummed like this. But if the Panthers lose, it doesn't mean the New England fan two rows in front of you no longer is entitled to wear his team's jersey.

Most of the fans at the Linc Sunday night were able to cheer for the Eagles without throwing beer or head-slaps at those who did not. Some even apologized for the behavior of the bottom-feeders, and went so far as to wish Panthers fans luck in the Super Bowl.

The bottom-feeders, meanwhile, were forced to return to their nasty little world without a football team to help them escape it.

There's a term for their predicament. It's called justice. Blame the Sports Deity. Or thank him. Tom Sorensen

Well, we are the only city that had to put a judge IN the stadium to deal with criminal charges resulting from stupid fan behavior.

One of my friends works at the First Aid Station at the Linc for all the Eagle's games.

One of the people he treated at the playoff game with Green Bay was a guy from Chicago who didn't know about Philly fans. Or maybe he heard, but didn't really believe it.

This guy made the ultimate mistake. You know, the one that involves wearing the opposing team's logowear?

He had on a suede Packers Jacket.

Things went well for him through most of the game. Late in the 4th Quarter, though, he went to the bathroom ... where he got jumped and had the shit kicked out of him.

Police escorted the poor guy out of the stadium. Not sure if they gave him transport to his hotel, though. He came via public transportation.

According to my friend he took the whole experience in stride ... was a lot calmer about it that I would expect someone who'd been rolled and kicked around the floor of a public restroom would be.

When people from North Carolina are calling US "white trash," that's pretty intensely ironic.

Cute line:

<i>Philadelphia doesn't deserve a championship in any of the major sports or hockey.</i>

Boy, those Carolina Hurricanes fans aren't fair-weather fans, are they?

(That's right, I forgot. Cross the Manson-Nixon line and the four major sports become (1) college basketball, (2) college basketball, (3) college basketball and (4) NASCAR.)

As a native of North Carolina who now lives in Philadelphia, I'll just say this guy is full of it anf leave it at that.

I will say that I can understand why he and his wife might consider hardcore Iggles fans to be very, very frightening.

That's because I'm a born-and-bred Philly-suburbs guy, and I consider hardcore Iggles fans to be very, very frightening.

I've been to one Eagles game in my life, in the 500-level of the Vet (against Atlanta, not what I would consider to be a major rivalry). I spent much of the game afraid of what might come flying from above and spooked by these people, <b>and I was rooting for the HOME team</b>.

I don't deny that, and I think it's icky--don't get me wrong. What I take issue with is the assumption that the other 31 NFL stadiums are chock full of choirboys.

Oh, sorry, the Eagles fans nailed Santa Claus. Never mind.

I probably posted this already sometime in history but hey. I was at the game that started the stadium court - the San Francisco Monday night game, which included at least 3 game interruptions by fans on the field, about 30 fights, and a flare gun shot by a fan, across the stadium to land in the 200 level seats.

I sat in a 200-level restricted view seat. Behind us was a mom with a 10-year-old. I think she lasted through to the half. What a trooper. In front of us were Marines, special invite tickets from the team; in full dress; they looked kinda nervous.

In the section to the right of us, trouble broke out with a minor scuffle. It didn't last long, but yellow-coated STAFFers surrounded the section to watch for everything to break out. Their presence basically ensured that it would; they were provoking it to happen so that they could enjoy being part of a scuffle.

You could say that the root cause was that Philly crowd having hours to get royally blitzed, but I know the real root cause: Rodney Peete. The Eagles stunk up the joint and could not move the ball 2 yards. The fans were furious. In the fourth quarter, they put in 3rd stringer Bobby Hoying, and the kid put together a drive and actually scored. There were no fights during the fourth quarter because the fans were suddenly entertained.

I didn't mean to hijack the thread, but unless you're a fan of cats or men in funny hats, not a whole lot to be said on this thread anymore. What the heck, my team is outta the running (Rams). Might as well stir up somethin'

You could stir up Brenda Warner's hair, except that someone beat you to it long ago.

Originally posted by Undertoad
There were no fights during the fourth quarter because the fans were suddenly entertained.

So what are you saying, Tony? Unless the Eagles own on every play, Philadelphians in attendence revert to a default Lord of the Flies mentality? In light of this hypothesis, the flare gun almost sounds like a desperate effort to refocus the attention of the crowd in only the way flying sparkly things can.

I mean, I thought Pittsburgh fans were horrific, but at least they have enough control to up and leave the stadium when whomever on the field turns to shit. You realize that? You are now worse than Pittsburgh. Pittsburgh.

Way to be, Philly.

I've gotta think this isn't the best time to mail out solicitations for the Philadelphia Eagles Visa Card.

But I saw several of them sitting in our mail room just now!

Read the fine print carefully. There may be a clause signing card applicants up to play wide receiver next year.

Tony, please tell me that you are not trying to make excuses for the fans.

Brenda Warner...I worry about her...

IIRC, there is no more Eagles Court...I don't think it was brought over to the Linc. From what I've seen and heard, things seemed better this year in terms of rowdy fans. I would think that higher ticket prices and PSLs helped with that. But you're still going to have a few fucking idiots in the mix.

There are certainly bad football fans in other cities...Cleveland and New Orleans come to mind. But you tend to hear about Philadelphia fans the most--even before I moved here.

In St. Louis, when there is poor play, some fans just tend to get apathetic. When the football Cardinals decided to leave town in '88, in the end, I don't think many people cared. The team has a legacy of sucking ass...and it's not like the move to the desert has helped them much.

I think the biggest problem St. Louis ever had fan-wise was in the late 90s during a baseball Cardinals game. Mark McGwire got thrown out of a game...why I don't know...and the fans responded by throwing cups and what not on the field at Busch Stadium. Highly unusual...I hadn't seen anything like it before and haven't since.

happy now, chewy?

All I know is that if the Vet was still in business, I would never in the name of all that is holy, go to ANY football game. Why the hell would I subject myself to possible harrassment if I decided to wear the opposing teams colors? I have every right to do so without fear of getting jacked up. :mad:

The "Beat the shit out of the dude in opposing team colors or who cheers for the wrong team" tradition has transferred to the Linc, totally intact.

Originally posted by wolf
The "Beat the shit out of the dude in opposing team colors or who cheers for the wrong team" tradition has transferred to the Linc, totally intact.

No, say it ain't so!!! I thought the riff raff would be outpriced, at least. Damn....:( And they want people to bring their children to sporting events...ha, they must be mad!

It's so.

Friend of mine works the medical aid station for every game. (His brother runs the ambulance company that has the contract for all the major sporting and entertainment events in Philadelphia.)

Do you know who bought Chelsi?

Roman Abramovich

What do you think about Abramovich and Chelsi. It's Good or bad.

A rural American and a rural Russian talking Premier League English football?

I love this world!

Originally posted by Hasan21
What do you think about Abramovich and Chelsi. It's Good or bad.

I don't know what the folks in Chelsea think of it but I like the idea of these international business/personal connections. They subvert nationalism and create opportunity. How'd Abramovich make his money? It'd be a bummer if this was part of a money laundering scheme.

Toadster said A rural American and a rural Russian talking Premier League English football?

On the internet, everybodies an expert. :) I didn't know if anyone with real knowlege would catch the reference.