White Fragility is a hell of a drug

Local discussion board has a thread about businesses which use the term “gypsy” in their name. It doesn’t single out anyone in particular, or make any accusations. People are discussing the term-- is it a racial slur, or something else, and how do we feel about that in general?

Local business owner decides the best response is (paraphrase) “People are spreading HATE about me and talking about me behind my back! My grandmother was full-blooded Cherokee and my grandfather was German and they lived in the Black Forest—this is MY HERITAGE!”

So first of all I’m confused. Everyone’s grandmother “was Cherokee” –that’s the fairy tale that American children are told. But what does it have to do with being of Romani descent? Who knows. I had to Google “Black Forest” and as best I can figure it’s a tourist attraction billed as the “Bermuda Triangle” of Romania. Sounds like the least credible claim to Romani heritage imaginable-- mY fAmiLy iS fRoM tHe tOuRiSt tRaP!

So said shop owner proceeds to have an aggressive meltdown, quit the group, claim that people are trying to “destroy” her life, and is lamenting that she will now have to leave town.

Because someone started a discussion about the word gypsy.

...

From Wikipedia, Romani people

The Romani are widely known in English by the exonym Gypsies (or Gipsies), which is considered by some Roma people to be pejorative due to its connotations of illegality and irregularity.

We can't even TALK about that, without the meltdown?

Someone posted a thread-- "I didn't know gypsy was a slur"

30 comments of useful discussion later, somebody just posts "It isn't" :smack:

She probably saw Snatch and decided that's who I am. They have DNA testing now if she needs a label. That might ruin both her Cherokee and her Roma fantasy though.

Does the business owner have the word in their business' name?

Yes, the business owner has the word 'gypsy' in their shop's name.

Also they claim to be of Romani heritage and state that they do not consider gypsy to be a slur. Since her heritage isn't verifiable I actually think we should take her at her word. We do understand that not all Romani people think gypsy is a slur. The same as the "n-word" in music by black artists.

And all of that is a civil discussion we could have had, but instead she decided, "eVeRyOnE iS aTtAcKiNg mE" and then a swarm of angry side-takers rushed to her "defense" and started a confrontational shit storm.

...


One of the threads, "I didn't know gypsy was a slur" was D E L E T E D . . . explain that logic.

Gypsy
adjective
(of a business or business person) nonunion or unlicensed.
"gypsy trucking firms"

'gypsy cab'

xoxoxoBruce;1054609 wrote:

Gypsy
adjective
(of a business or business person) nonunion or unlicensed.
"gypsy trucking firms"

Gravdigr;1054612 wrote:

'gypsy cab'

Illegal taxicab operation

Illegal taxicabs, sometimes known as pirate taxis or gypsy cabs, are taxicabs and other for-hire vehicles that are not duly licensed or permitted by the jurisdiction in which they operate.

Wow. So, nonunion, unlicensed, illegal, or not permitted. I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say those don't sound like compliments.

It's a troubled word 'gypsy'. It absolutely entered the language as a racial slur - most likely against Roma refugees who ended up in Britain in the 16th century and were supposed by the people of the time to have come from Egypt (Gyptians or something like that). it certainly wasnt something they called themselves or each other - I dont even think they saw themselves as a unified group - there were different clans and tribes as distinct from each other as other nations

But the word has been in the language long enough to have been claimed and rejected by the Roma peoples themselves at various times and in various contexts and has also been used by mainstream communities and nations to other the Roma peoples in devastating ways, and continues to be used in such a way now in some parts of the world.

But it has also been in the language long enough to spawn a host of sayings and prefixes to words that are in and of themselves entirely benign - but rely on a specific conception of a stereotypical Roma experience to have any meaning.

I feel gypped by this thread. I thought there would be arguments.

listen here, you SOB :p:

During my formative years, the term "Gypsy" was very contentious and I was confused when I learned that the flower gypsophila was also called "baby's breath" because I wondered if it was related to the myth that gypsies stole babies, but couldn't ask in case i got in trouble, and as a result felt very awkward about the name of the flower, which was tricky as my mum was working at a florist's at the time :(

/sidetrack

I'm hearing a little "awkward memories" jingle as an outro to that post.

Flint;1054622 wrote:

Illegal taxicab operation


Wow. So, nonunion, unlicensed, illegal, or not permitted. I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say those don't sound like compliments.

Doesn't sound racial either.

One question I had in the original discussion(s) on FB was whether this was a generational thing, insomuch as, being 45yo, I assume everyone my age and younger believes/is aware that "gypsy" is considered an ethnic slur by some people in that group.

Is that part of this? Did it "used to be" okay?

I mean it's always an adjustment the first time you hear something, I just thought we'd all already processed this one.

I never considered it an ethnic slur because I didn't know until a couple years ago about the gypsies in Europe being Romani.
Always figured it was just people who chose that lifestyle like hobos and carnies.

I have this hanging in my bathroom. A friend gave it to me after he bought it at a flea market because my EX was named Mary.
It says occupation gypsy but no mention of Romani.

"like hobos and carnies" L O L that cracked me up

Thank you for sharing your perspective.

Flint;1054622 wrote:

Illegal taxicab operation


Wow. So, nonunion, unlicensed, illegal, or not permitted. I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say those don't sound like compliments.

They don't sound any too ethnic either.

Using an ethnic term as a synonym for criminality or dishonesty (gypped) can hardly be anything else.

Happy Monkey;1054666 wrote:

Using an ethnic term as a synonym for criminality or dishonesty (gypped) can hardly be anything else.

How niggardly of you, presuming the term is hardly anything else but "ethnic".

It's not a case of coincidentally having similar syllables, it's the actual word.

xoxoxoBruce;1054636 wrote:

Doesn't sound racial either.

Of course its racial - those are the negative qualities associated with gypsies: corrupt, thieving, unreliable, insular as a group and treats all others as fair game etc etc, along with unstable, wandering and outside normal society.

When those terms were coined, that was a common understanding of what gypsy meant - it was a quick way to raise connotations of something untrustworthy and outside the norm. it was also an easy way to depict something not fixed or without its own place

The same way as 'play the white man' suggests an entire cultural understanding, so the use of gypsy as a prefix draws on a whole weight of cultural understanding which has just been absorbed into our language.

That cultural understanding has become watered down and lessened across generations, but some of it still persists - we may not have all those old assumptions, but we instinctively know what is meant when the word Gypsy is used - it means all of those traits - even if we dont connect the mental dots quite as directly as might have done a couple of generations ago.

A twofer...

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To me the odd part of flint's story is that the business owner used the name, taking possession of the word turning it into something good but then didn't want the discussion which I would have thought would be the whole point of using it in the name.

Cultural side note, I think the stereotyping is more meaningful in Europe. It's been watered down in the States because of reduced contact. The old-timers at my (Irish) family reunions would use the term in all its negative glory threatening to sell kids to the gypsies which was a step up from letting the Indians take you. Yeah, my family is still pretty fucking racist.

DanaC;1054680 wrote:

Of course its racial - those are the negative qualities associated with gypsies: corrupt, thieving, unreliable, insular as a group and treats all others as fair game etc etc, along with unstable, wandering and outside normal society.

When those terms were coined, that was a common understanding of what gypsy meant - it was a quick way to raise connotations of something untrustworthy and outside the norm. it was also an easy way to depict something not fixed or without its own place

Yeah yeah yeah, where does it say Gypsy is a race?
It says it's a lifestyle, an attitude, an honesty and caution alert, but it ain't racist without a race.

Also, If you think gypsies only refers to Romani people, what makes them a race and not just a culture?
Are Swedes a race? Are Jews a race?

Genetic findings appear to confirm that the Romani "came from a single group that left northwestern India" in about 512 CE.[63] Genetic research published in the European Journal of Human Genetics "revealed that over 70% of males belong to a single lineage that appears unique to the Roma"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romani_people

I think we all agree that race as a construct is dumb, but they are unique as a nation-less nationality. Hitler killed the hell out of them...

Bah, if disliking a group for their lifestyle, ethics, and honesty, makes someone a racist, then it don't mean shit anymore.
I guess now I'm a racist for hating cauliflower. :rolleyes:

xoxoxoBruce;1054688 wrote:

Yeah yeah yeah, where does it say Gypsy is a race? ...

In the UK's Equality Act 2010.

It’s race discrimination if you’re treated unfairly because of one of the following things:

● color
● nationality
● ethnic origin
● national origin.

The courts have said that Romany Gypsies and Irish Travellers are protected against race discrimination because they’re ethnic groups under the Equality Act.

USA USA USA

There's also the human race, just sayin'.

Now you're sayin Bambi and Thumper are racist. :facepalm:

That's a stretch; but, grandma got run over by a reindeer. We never got the full story on that.

The Saami did it.

Flint;1054575 wrote:

So first of all I’m confused. Everyone’s grandmother “was Cherokee” –that’s the fairy tale that American children are told.

"Cherokee Princess" was 18th/19th century slang for a prostitute.

Which may explain some of the confusion.