The Politics of a Health Crisis
Firstly, the Republicans have talked themselves into a corner, by calling every Democrat a “Socialist” for the last 20 years. I understand why they do it—because decrying “big government” puts money in their pocket*. But, really, the mis-labelling is gratuitous at this point—they already got their huge tax cuts**
What would they do if a guy who literally calls himself a Socialist***—were running for President. No need to do anything—the Democrats (or, Republican Lite™) did everything in their collective power to stop that from happening—to the point of coronating an un-electable buffoon that Trump will absolutely CRUSH in the general.
Then, the system is stressed. And it turns out that EVERYBODY wants to do Socialism now! Pump money into this! Hand out money for that! Give people UNIVERSAL BASIC INCOME. Give people FREE HEALTHCARE. Turns out, Progressives were right all along, and Socialist government programs really are the solution we need. The Free Market™ has NOT stepped up to tackle this issue, because THEY NEVER GAVE A SHIT IN THE FIRST PLACE.
So how could the “Liberal Media” have conspired to create a panic to hurt Trump, when it is also a crisis that ONLY SOCIALISM CAN SOLVE? And at the same time, conspire to CRUSH Socialism?? And at the same time, BE Socialists???
Conclusion: People want Socialism, people NEED socialism, but they’ll only admit it on their literal DEATHBED. Society deserves to be destroyed, we’re too ƒucking stupid to live.
*and only hurts people that they don’t care about
**which they didn’t even need. they’re doing so well since Reagan they were able to BUY politics—the whole thing!
***Democratic Socialist, but this is a distinction that only people under 45 are able to grasp
Everybody doesn't want Socialism.*
Everybody wants a Make Everything Okay Again Immediately button.
But only markets can reach that. It was the incredible power of markets that created the new economic power of China which allowed them to build hospitals in days. If this happened 30 years ago, before they changed their economic system and markets arrived, they would all be dead now.
*The World is not your social media
No need to do anything—the Democrats (or, Republican Lite™) did everything in their collective power to stop that from happening
Also, black people
… Society deserves to be destroyed, we’re too ƒucking stupid to live. ...
That's a little drastic. How about a good old fashioned military coup. Take the Oath and you'll be issued everything you need...even a comfort woman (I call dibs on Ivanka). Everyone will be looking good - Dress right, DRESS. Society will be marching in step. Stupid will be assimilated and redirected. Don't worry, be happy! What say you,
Captain Flint?
Everybody wants a Make Everything Okay Again Immediately button.
But only markets can reach that.
The market can't do that.
Everybody doesn't want Socialism.*
...
*The World is not your social media
Oh god, you're right! I accidentally wrote this post after getting clonked on the head by a 2x4.
Thank you for telling me big Wise Person Things!
[COLOR="Gray"]unless ... I meant the other thing ... that there was a whole paragraph about ? ? ? [/COLOR]I was attacking your premise. I didn't actually mean to attack you, that was an accident sorry
Firstly, the Republicans have talked themselves into a corner, by calling every Democrat a “Socialist” for the last 20 years. I understand why they do it—because decrying “big government” puts money in their pocket*. But, really, the mis-labelling is gratuitous at this point—they already got their huge tax cuts**
How might this have been done better? The soundbite has been successful for decades. But, like any soundbite, it must change with age. How might that soundbite have changed to keep ahead of the times? Obviously, the change would (must) be subtle. Or was a change attempted?
good sir, your kind words have assuaged my botheration, and I am no longer Big Mad at your face
Not exactly on point
I LOLd
good sir, your kind words have assuaged my botheration, and I am no longer Big Mad at your face
Also, I endeavor to do better in future. I promise
I'm wondering if people get it now that Yang is out of the race and we're social distancing?
So Pete is starting to worry that Trump could pull a Natanyahu using the health / economic crisis to save his own political ass...
Corona King says: We need those disease ridden airplanes to crash and burn, maybe taking out some disease ridden dense population centers in the process, and sink those disease ridden cruise ships. Notice there never seems to be any terrorists around when you need them.
Firstly, the Republicans have talked themselves into a corner, by calling every Democrat a “Socialist” for the last 20 years. I understand why they do it—because decrying “big government” puts money in their pocket*. But, really, the mis-labelling is gratuitous at this point—they already got their huge tax cuts**
How might this have been done better? The soundbite has been successful for decades. But, like any soundbite, it must change with age. How might that soundbite have changed to keep ahead of the times?
Firstly, the Republicans have talked themselves into a corner, by calling every Democrat a “Socialist” for the last 20 years. I understand why they do it—because decrying “big government” puts money in their pocket*. But, really, the mis-labelling is gratuitous at this point—they already got their huge tax cuts**
How might this have been done better? The soundbite has been successful for decades. But, like any soundbite, it must change with age. How might that soundbite have changed to keep ahead of the times? Obviously, the change would (must) be subtle. Or was a change attempted?
Firstly, the Republicans have talked themselves into a corner, by calling every Democrat a “Socialist” for the last 20 years. I understand why they do it—because decrying “big government” puts money in their pocket*. But, really, the mis-labelling is gratuitous at this point—they already got their huge tax cuts**
How might this have been done better? The soundbite has been successful for decades. But, like any soundbite, it must change with age. How might that soundbite have changed to keep ahead of the times?
Nag, nag, nag.
Nag, nag, nag.
Only an extremist has opinions and cannot even say why.
Meanwhile, the original statement were interesting. But only if we know why.
It was a self-explanatory observation.
The Republicans have overused a catchphrase and consequently robbed it of any substantive meaning, while desensitizing their target audience to the claim itself.
I don't care how they could have improved on it, I'm not a political strategist or a Republican.
It seems like you have something else you'd like to add, so go ahead, I'm not stopping you.
Only an extremist has opinions and cannot even say why. ...
It sufficed to say why not.
During the Spanish Flu they mobilized, partly because we had a large standing army, but they knew a hundred years later we'd have flying cars.
Bipartisanship!
Trump and Cuomo did some good work together this week.
Burr and Feinstein got together and robbed the stock market.
This Twitter thread compiles the media and scientific reaction to Trump's 1/31 announcement announcement barring entry into the U.S. from China.
They were ....
against it
Yes even the scientists
Orange man bad so orange man policy restricting travel from China also bad
https://twitter.com/lyndseyfifield/status/1240761466216734721The scientists...
The media...
You like big groups, you can not lie.
Orange man *is* bad, on that we agree.
One example. The twitter rollup you cite headlines Trump's actions despite WHO's stance. Then in the same rollup, Trump's action *cites* WHO's stance justifying the policy. This is trying to have your cake and eat it too. In fact, the WHO's stance at the time specifically called for scientific justification for declaring the PHEIC (Public Health Emergency of International Concern) and for scientific justification of policy actions.
I'm curious, when you use the term "the media", do you include lindseyfifield's twitter?
correction: some media / some scientists
One example
example of what now?
This Twitter thread compiles the media and scientific reaction to Trump's 1/31 announcement announcement barring entry into the U.S. from China.
That Lindsay tweet says exactly where her brain in located. In the part that children use.
We know he lies constantly. But then he cannot help himself. As Steve Bannon so clearly stated, Trump has a 30 second attention span. Senator Bob Corker of Tennessee noted, the White House was effectively an "adult day care center." He was not wrong. Sec of State Tillerson accurately called him a moron. Using facts that said why.
So why would Lindsay blame everyone else - the educated people? Moderates (people who make decisions from facts; not from emotions) would never be as brainwashed as Lindsay clearly is. She blames others whose attention span far greater than 30 seconds. Who are actually educated. That tweet does not belong in any discussion among adults.
Only a wacko extremist, who automatically believes a man who lies every day, would so insult the intelligent of patriotic Americans. She loves the moron because he insults, demeans, and lies - just like Pol Pot, Milosevic, and any good communist. But then he is educated where business is only about enriching yourself at the expense of all counter parties. Again, communism.
Essential Personnel : Turns out some of our lowest paid citizens are essential. We do have wage issues in this country. Lil' G just got over a 50% wage increase due to the crisis. Maybe management is starting to get it. I'm concerned for her health.
Somebody must keep the sanitary sewer plants working. Since we are all home just shitting in our pants. Oh. Maybe they are not essential workers.
Essential Personnel : Turns out some of our lowest paid citizens are essential.
Many of our lowest paid workers are essential. The job is so bad that if it weren't essential, it wouldn't exist. It's also so bad that anyone with options wouldn't do it. So only people with no options do it, and people with no options can be paid very little.
Somebody must keep the sanitary sewer plants working. Since we are all home just shitting in our pants. Oh. Maybe they are not essential workers.
Side note re shitting:
Please don't send the wipes down the toilet to the sanitary sewer. They're not flushable despite what it might say on the label.
From the House D version of the bill. Jesus fucking Christ. This is an emergency.
Maybe they can strike that in exchange for whatever silly money is going to any entity outside of the American people.
Breaking, that bill is now dead as saner heads have prevailed.
Seattle NPR Station Says It Will No Longer Carry Donald Trump’s Coronavirus Briefings Live Because Of Misinformation
“KUOW is monitoring White House briefings for the latest news on the coronavirus — and we will continue to share all news relevant to Washington State with our listeners,” the station tweeted. “However, we will not be airing the briefings live due to a pattern of false or misleading information provided that cannot be fact checked in real time.”
Sticking your fingers in your ears while loudly going LA LA LA doesn't help, it just keeps you from hearing what the opposition will assume is gospel. Now you can't argue with them because you don't even know what they believe.
All this does is drive his base away from NPR and the slim chance of jump starting critical thinking in some of the base.
People should be listening to it for Dr. Fauci
is Fauci still in them? he was "missing" right after that interview got into circulation
I dunno, I haven't seen the latest two, I'm supposed to be working :D
He is apparently still on board. I think avoiding the President's bullshit news conferences is important because by being there he either calls him on his shit or is seen as endorsing it. We need him to keep this job. The press needs to turn down the Bad Orange Man's microphone or just report it as jazz vocals.
Something I'm finding interesting is that this is right in Cuomo's wheelhouse. He sticks to the facts as known, labels opinion as opinion, focuses on the actual mechanics of supply chains and rational responses. I never really liked the dude but he was built for this. He has an authoritarian streak like Trump but in this case he is guided by reason. He was talking about a "rolling response" yesterday where the equipment gathered in NY gets moved to the next hot spot when the wave crashes. He volunteered to manage that effort.
Pictures of Manilla before and after Kung Flu arrival...
[ATTACH]70117[/ATTACH]
Must have shut down the envelope and folder plants.
Pictures of Manilla before and after Kung Flu arrival...
Which proves it must be an pandemic created by aliens so they can find good landing pads. The invasion is coming. I heard it on Fox News. It must be true.
Trump would say that. But he has already blamed it on Chinese who did it to increase profits of protective masks and suits.
A 30 second attention spam makes it so easy to discover these things.
Australia is also short of masks and other supplies. Guess why oh you'll never guess
Chinese company shipped out millions of Australia’s masks, hand sanitiser, glove supplies
A Chinese government-backed property giant has secretly raided in bulk Australia’s supplies of masks, hand sanitiser, antibacterial wipes and essential medical supplies and shipped them back to China.
The Greenland Group, which manages high-end real estate projects in Sydney and Melbourne, proactively drained Australian supplies of anti-coronavirus equipment, The Sydney Morning Herald reported.
Three million surgical masks, 500,000 pairs of gloves and bulk supplies of sanitiser and wipes were bought up in Australia and other countries where Greenland operates.
While the bulk purchases and shipping were perfectly legitimate, the goods shipped in bulk to China include the very items that have been in short supply for Australian citizens as well as health professionals.
They were accumulated at Greenland’s Sydney headquarters and sent to China over weeks in January and February.
As coronavirus locked down Wuhan, the global Fortune 500 company put its normal work on hold and instructed staff in Australia, Canada, Turkey and elsewhere to source supplies.
A real estate management company. Three million masks. Seriously.
Happen here as well? How could it not have? I'm not saying it's why there's a shortage. But nobody was watching in January.
Yes: happened around the world as well. NY Times 3/13
The World Needs Masks. China Makes Them — But Has Been Hoarding Them.
China did not just stop selling masks — it also bought up much of the rest of the world’s supply. According to official data, China imported 56 million respirators and masks in the first week after the January lockdown of the city of Wuhan, where the coronavirus emerged.
China: the toilet paper hoarder of medical supplies. Well, I guess it went OK for them.
Meanwhile, South Korea suffered same infection rates at that same time. South Korea leaders listened to people who come from where the work gets done. Addressed the problem in January. And do not have the problems that now exist in America.
Trump refused to admit the virus was even a threat until about March 15. And only because stock markets were crashing.
Similar pattern of bombastic leadership skills exist in Australia, UK, Italy, and Iran.
85% of all problems are directly traceable to top management. 99% if they blame others (ie China).
Boris has got it. Whether he lives or dies will no doubt dramatically affect public sentiment in the UK as to the seriousness of the pandemic. If he recovers quickly, the "it's just like the flu" crowd will be emboldened. If he dies, many who weren't taking it seriously may begin to, but I predict we'll also see a spike in conspiracy theories, a la "it's only killing conservatives," "someone infected him deliberately," "the virus was used to cover his assassination," etc.
Best case scenario, politically, is probably that he gets very, very ill, but recovers. Even in that case, there will be a lot of public resentment if he gets a ventilator when others didn't.
Boris has got it. Whether he lives or dies will no doubt dramatically affect public sentiment in the UK as to the seriousness of the pandemic.
People who come from where the work gets done and were warning about this in the UK, provided numbers from their models.
A UK model assumes a typically infected person will pass this virus on to 2.4 others. Of them, 4.4% will require hospitalization. By doing nothing (until even he was infected), models suggest that the infected would peak in mid-May. With various suppression strategies, that peak may happen in November.
Estimated ICU capacity is about 8 beds per 100,000. Numbers say Boris is unlikely to require hospitalization. But if he does, he will be a 'lucky' one who gets an ICU bed.
People who come from where the work gets done and were warning about this in the UK, provided numbers from their models.
Guess what.
Oh you'll never guess.
The dude from where the work gets done decided yesterday that his models were wrong.
Dr. Neil Ferguson, the extremely influential epidemiologist behind the coronavirus model that led the United States and the United Kingdom to enact shutdown measures to combat the pandemic, has now drastically revised his estimates.
Ferguson, who leads a team of researchers at the Imperial College in London, informed members of the U.K. Parliament Wednesday that deaths in the country as a result of COVID-19 are unlikely to exceed 20,000, and in fact could be much lower, the New Scientist reported.
"There will be some areas that are extremely stressed, but we are reasonably confident — which is all we can be at the current time — that at the national level we will be within capacity," Ferguson said.
But isnt that new prediction as a result of social distancing etc?
Neil Ferguson at Imperial College London gave evidence today to the UK’s parliamentary select committee on science and technology as part of an inquiry into the nation’s response to the coronavirus outbreak.
He said that expected increases in National Health Service capacity and ongoing restrictions to people’s movements make him “reasonably confident” the health service can cope when the predicted peak of the epidemic arrives in two or three weeks. UK deaths from the disease are now unlikely to exceed 20,000, he said, and could be much lower.
The need for intensive care beds will get very close to capacity in some areas, but won’t be breached at a national level, said Ferguson. The projections are based on computer simulations of the virus spreading, which take into account the properties of the virus, the reduced transmission between people asked to stay at home and the capacity of hospitals, particularly intensive care units.
Read more:
https://www.newscientist.com/article/2238578-uk-has-enough-intensive-care-units-for-coronavirus-expert-predicts/#ixzz6HwFn6Stx
That isnt saying his model was wrong - it's suggesting reduced social contact and increased hospital capacity among other factors should bring those initial projections down - partly because of when the social controls were implemented
The New Scientist story also says it's new data from Europe that drives the change in the model
We'll see how it goes I guess!
That isnt saying his model was wrong -
That's a hard sell.
Going from projecting 500K to 20K (UK deaths) is quite a disparity considering there's been no vaccine or treatment, only more pathogen information and social distancing. Something wasn't right with that earlier model even for the prevailing circumstances. Variables used in the equation were probably too low of certainty to yield statistically meaningful results and shouldn't have been employed without a disclaimer.
Those initial projections were based on the information available at the time on rates of infection - and based on what we understand of how infectious the virus is - each person infected 2.5 others leading to exponential growth. We are now seeing the impact of social distancing measures in countries which are further along the path - we are also testing more so getting more data
There are many different statistical models and they are very fluid as the situation develops. One of the key factors was the potential for health systems to become overwhelmed by the speed of the disease. In some places that is happening, but these tend to be at a local rather than national level as yet.
Maybe those figures would not have been so far off the mark had so many places not gone to full or partial lockdown
The lockdowns are SOP and should've been incorporated from the beginning.
It's like saying that if another country attacks your country, half the population will be killed (without factoring in a military response).
I regard such projections as I regard the chloroquine treatment - as anecdotal.
Government's public endorsement is contraindicated when it can cause more harm than good. Look at panic stockpiling in the rear leaving shortages on the front lines.
Yeah, I feel like we've already reached the part of the game where the seriousness of the thing is downplayed because some places were pretty successful implementing the social-distancing plan. Because of late recognition, NYC continues to be behind the curve, but parts of the US would appear to have a little wiggle room. A deeply religious man, Donald J Trump would like to open the country up for business on Easter. The pagans in NYC won't understand how important that is.
The New Scientist story also says it's new data from Europe that drives the change in the model
UTs premise is that the model was defective because an infected person would only infect 2.4 others.
The model did not say 2.4 people WILL be infected - as UT misrepresents. The model said IF the number was 2.4, then these very bad things are expected.
That number was only one input to the model - not a conclusion from the model as UT would have us believe. And as DanaC correctly noted. The model said if infections were only 2.4, then these bad things will happen. Apparently the infection rate is about 3. So things may be even worse.
The model, as reported, said nothing about death rates. Another data input projected that 4.4% of those infected will require hospitalization. Not death. Hospitalization. UT claims the model was defective because death rates in UK may only be 20,000. Hospitalization numbers and death numbers obviously are different.
If 60% must recover from this virus before it subsides, then we can expect maybe 7+ million Americans will eventually require hospitalization. Since nothing was done for supplies, then more nurses and doctors will die. How many? Depends on whether that 7 million arrive immediately. Or require hospitalization between now and November.
Longer means less nurses and doctors are infected. And less people die due to no ventilators.
Another input to the model notes about 8 ICU beds per 100,000 people exist. A number that would never be that low had the nation been led by someone who wanted to avert disaster.
Isolation and lockdown will do nothing to end this pandemic. Those only slow the spread so that medical people have time to obtain 'withheld and now limited' equipment. So that less nurses and doctors die.
Isolation and lockdown made more necessary because 85% of this problem is directly traceable to top management. A White House intentionally subverted any response for two months. As a result, lockdowns may be necessary in some places well into or after May.
Of course, he says it will all be over before Easter. He lies. He would have us do what is clearly wrong and dangerous. We all know who he is.
Lessons from Singapore, Hong Kong, and S Korea demonstrated a pandemic is less problematic when prevention was implemented sooner. Key is testing. No test kits were made or obtained in the US because the White House subverted necessary actions.
Some 3500 people were potential victims on the Grand Princess (outside San Francisco). Many days later, they could only find 45 test kits for that ship. What most prevents widespread infection are test kits and laboratories with equipment to process those kits.
Only place that could do testing in American was the CDC in Atlanta. Two months after the threat was obvious, expected, known, and spreading.
Also key are test kits that can identify an infected person in minutes. That was clearly defined as necessary in the NSC report (a Pandemic Playbook) that was disposed, mocked, and rescinded in 2018. We know by who.
On Tuesday, the president again lied on his propaganda network - Fox. Saying that his administration could not have foreseen the coronavirus pandemic. Even though the intelligence community bluntly told him - in no uncertain terms - it was coming on Jan 12.
Things that could have been done when this pandemic was obvious in January were poo-pooed. He even admits he will intentionally lie to make himself look better. And to make others feel better. 85% of all problems are directly traceable to a man that UT still praises.
Today, NYC has no more available ventilators. 16,000 are in military storage that Trump said would be distributed last week. They still have not shipped. 85% of all problems are directly traceable to who? Trump then said so many ventilators were not necessary. Apparently his staff scolded him. He denied his lie but hours later.
To further promote himself, Trump is moving his hundreds man entourage to Norfolk to sent off a hospital ship Comfort. Why expose hundreds more to infections? Well that ship could not move. Since facts were ignored on 12 Jan, then the ship was under reconstruction and unavailable. As of this afternoon, it still has not moved while ceremonies continue.
Standard SOP is a boss implementing what informed employees say. And not the boss telling the informed that they are wrong and evil. He is also not smarter than the Generals. He has a 30 second attention span. Another reason why more doctors and nurses may die.
The model, as reported, said nothing about death rates
Nope. Nobody fucking knows, mate. Incredibly, he won't reveal his model.
He can just publish his code, and immediately end that argument, but he won't.
Nope. Nobody fucking knows, mate. Incredibly, he won't reveal his model.
He provides facts that a scumbag president wants to deny. So you attack him rather than a lying idiot with a 30 second attention span? That scumbag even admits he lies to make himself look better. A scumbag loved by people routinely brainwashed by Fox News propaganda. That is not even an opinion. Those are facts.
Facts say a responsible person does not automatically attack all science. The least informed even denied global warming - because Fox News ordered them to. Responsible people do know. The
fucking problem is that scumbag.
Covid-19 is just another example of a scumbag who only makes things worse.
He's just an Epidemiologist. If he wants people to take him seriously, he'll have to go back to school to become a Pandemiologist. :p:
So you attack him rather than a lying idiot with a 30 second attention span?
Why should I attack you?
He's just an Epidemiologist. If he wants people to take him seriously, he'll have to go back to school to become a Pandemiologist. :p:
Why should I attack you?
You do that in an underhanded manner; constantly. You have long history of touted Fox News lies and denying well proven facts. You denied global warming. Denied Fukushima plants were in (obvious) meltdown. Denied the "Saddam clearly did not have WMDs" reality even after George Jr confirmed it publicly. Denied a Katrina disaster in New Orleans because Fox News even denied people were without food and water for days in the Superdome and Convention center (even after their own reporters told the truth). Because you believe Fox News. And even disparage honest news sources.
An honest person is openly critical of a scumbag president. Instead, you recite Fox News lies that exist only because Fox News is a Trump propaganda machine. Its purpose is to lie when necessary.
You put up the three network anchormen as three monkeys - deaf, dumb and blind. When they were telling the truth and Fox News was lying. Had you ignored Fox News - the fake news - and listened to responsible sources, then you knew the truth about global warming. Know that Trump said there were only five Covid-19 cases and he expected that number to drop to 1 next week. Said we should all fill the churches on Easter. And said old people should ignore their health to save the economy. He even said those Governors, Mayors, and medical professionals were wrong. He would ignore their pleas for help if they did not say nice things about him. They don't need all those ventilators - according to Trump. Did Fox News contradict him? Of course not.
Trump even criticized a federally-funded program, for people exposed to contaminated Flint water, $25 to enroll in support services and programs. He tweeted “this is a total disgrace." Because that is what Fox News said.
That is your responsible news source? No wonder we have been so adversarial since you promoted what was the massacre of 5000 American servicemen for no purpose. And still do not apologize for endorsing that mistake - that continues today.
Having delayed the hospital ship Comfort for another photo-Op, well it finally and just now is leaving Norfolk harbor. And should finally arrive in NYC on Monday - in two days. Two days to travel from Chesapeake Bay to NY harbor.
A president that you still approve of is that bad for every patriotic American.
Worst case of COVFEFE-19 I ever saw.
How sad it must be to spend three decades chronicling this and still get it wrong. I mean I would like to answer your shit in kind, but that would be elder abuse.
All this does is drive his base away from NPR and the slim chance of jump starting critical thinking in some of the base.
Critical thinking is the very thing that elected DJT in the first place; the electorate undertook critical thinking of the political Establishment and concluded that we were come to our unsatisfactory pass *because* of the professional political class -- a class that continues to take a thrashing as the electorate rebels at the prospect of them continuing to fill the seats of power.
Trump has, critical thinkingwise, shown up the value of the political establishment -- it's not high, as la Pelosi's idea of appropriate political conduct and escaping condemnation from her own, this last week will show -- only partly owing to his being an outsider therefrom. This goes back a long ways into a real estate career -- politicians being in the main a line-item expense, and little more.
(Talk radio properly raised hell with Pelosi over that "no crisis unexploited" stunt. Really -- 1400 pages of riders, considerably greater in bulk than the original appropriations bill??)
He's made that public, and they can't fucking stand it -- and that couldn't happen to a nicer and more deserving demographic. Their vocal reluctance to bend over and take one for the free republic is blatant, and their shame. No wonder I quit voting for Donkeys so many years ago. That's the easiest way to perform critical thinking -- and it saves you from voting an antidemcratic socialist (socialism isn't democratic; never be fooled by disguise -- or you can't be a critical thinker) even inadvertently into the bargain. You've still got a couple of decent party choices -- the Republicans do not harbor socialists in their club, and the Libertarians are positively the antisocialists.
Shoud tw be taken out of circulation by a moderate attack of Wuhan Coronavirus -- and recover -- it is to be hoped he will thereupon do the just as moderately heroic thing with a plasma and antibodies donation, helping to effect cures for the worse afflicted.
And when enough anecdotes of successful chloroquine and hexachloroquine treatment and cure accumulate, offlabel use or no, they pile up into something that looks a lot like data. Not completely, not rigorously -- but close enough to be useful.
A message from Chatham, MA.
From an interview of a Park Ave (NYC) resident. He believed he is the only person remaining in his building. And because he believes he is the only one without a vacation home.
The long arm of medical red tape is what keeps us safe 99% of the time. In the last few weeks though? Not so much --
Company: "Our technology can sterilize 160,000 masks a day -- and we can send it to trouble spots where it's needed!"
FDA: "You're authorized for 10,000. And only in Ohio. And that's how it shall stay."
https://www.nbc4i.com/community/health/coronavirus/gov-dewine-fda-limits-battelles-ppe-mask-sterilizing-technology-to-only-10k-a-day/As reported in Mississippi, due to a shortage of any protective equipment, other surgeries have been canceled. For example, one women with breast cancer and slated for surgery, had it canceled due to this nationwide shortage of protective medical equipment (ie masks, gowns, etc).
So would she be cited as a Covid-19 victim? Or a victim of mismanagement at the highest levels?
As reported in Mississippi, due to a shortage of any protective equipment, other surgeries have been canceled. For example, one women with breast cancer and slated for surgery, had it canceled due to this nationwide shortage of protective medical equipment (ie masks, gowns, etc).
So would she be cited as a Covid-19 victim? Or a victim of mismanagement at the highest levels?
Why did the medical professionals in this Miss. facility allow such a shortage to occur?
Company: "Our technology can sterilize 160,000 masks a day -- and we can send it to trouble spots where it's needed!"
FDA: "You're authorized for 10,000. And only in Ohio. And that's how it shall stay."
Might be time to play anarchist, give the FDA the finger, and reach out to the troubled areas directly.
last time I bothered to check...
222,000 flu cases and 22,000 flu deaths, in the US, so far.
1,864 carona cases and 41 deaths, in the US, so far.
Why did the medical professionals in this Miss. facility allow such a shortage to occur?
:rolleyes:
:rolleyes:
I'm not particularly bright: mebbe you wanna spell out the connection.
The shortage is not from normal hospital usage. It is 100% because of the huge influx of COVID-19 cases worldwide. Cases that you, among others, didn't believe would happen. Two weeks ago you scoffed at the numbers; now you imply that the hospital was negligent in not procuring a huge surplus in anticipation of those numbers.
Incidentally, the federal government does have a stockpile of masks, etc. in case of a pandemic. The states have to formally request them, and they have been. So far, Trump is delivering on those requests entirely based on which states have governors that praise him. Florida has received 100% of the gear they've requested. Blue states have gotten between 0%-15% of what they've asked for.
Well, Florida does have all of those old, highly vulnerable, retirees and let's not forget all those obnoxious vectors on spring break!
The shortage is not from normal hospital usage. It is 100% because of the huge influx of COVID-19 cases worldwide.
Poopycock. This is a hospital. It's the job of the professionals at that facility to stock their shelves based on the current and anticipated needs of their community.
The goings on in Italy or China or New York have what bearing on this hospital?
None.
Either they were short of equipment before Fu Manflu (which is negligent on their part) or they gifted equipment and shorted themselves (which is dumb).
Cases that you, among others, didn't believe would happen. Two weeks ago you scoffed at the numbers
I still scoff. what's the global death total for the China Syndrome? What's the Global death total for the current mediocre Flu?
Stickin' with 'Murica: what's the death totals? Where are the bulk of infections & deaths happenin'?
We're in the midst of a severe thunderstorm but the Weather Channel sez it's a hurricane.
Sure, NY & NO, for example, have it bad, but most of 'Murica is fine and gettin' a bit miffed at havin' the brakes stomped on their personal economies cuz of what isn't happenin' to them.
It's wool, pulled over eyes.
now you imply that the hospital was negligent in not procuring a huge surplus in anticipation of those numbers.
Not at all. I'm sayin', flat-out, a hospital in a state with less than a thousand cases of Commie-virus ought not be short, especially when that state tends to, historically, have a higher incidence of Flu infection than other states.
Incidentally, the federal government does have a stockpile of masks, etc. in case of a pandemic. The states have to formally request them, and they have been. So far, Trump is delivering on those requests entirely based on which states have governors that praise him. Florida has received 100% of the gear they've requested. Blue states have gotten between 0%-15% of what they've asked for.
Best kiss Orange Man's ass then...for the good of the people.
So far, Trump is delivering on those requests entirely based on which states have governors that praise him.
I doubt he even has that ability
Florida has received 100% of the gear they've requested. Blue states have gotten between 0%-15% of what they've asked for.
I'm not saying no, I'm just skeptical. Political and journalistic games are afoot
https://twitter.com/Neoavatara/status/1244333464427606018Stickin' with 'Murica: what's the death totals? Where are the bulk of infections & deaths happenin'?
Here in the US, mid-April son.
They are wagerin' it will be 81,000 dead, let's see how it goes
https://covid19.healthdata.org/It's
definitely happening, but there are indeed competing answers as to why Florida got everything it asked for (e.g. higher population than some states--though certainly not New York--lower request numbers, looming hurricanes.) Department of Health & Human Services makes the direct decisions as to who gets what.
*when the Caronapocalypse is done: infections & deaths will be comparable with any old seasonal, garden-variety Flu
*the Caronapocalypse will be done end of April, early part of May
*Caronapocalypse talk will go on and on and on ('till my employee is reelected after which virus-speak will abruptly end in favor of some new crisis)
*a whole whack of folks are gonna ask their various local, regional, state, and federal employees a lotta hard questions (mostly about why the whole of 'Murica had to go on hold for sumthin' that wasn't the apocalypse), the answers won't satisfy, so...
*...mebbe a good chunk of them employees will have to get real jobs
It is nice that they are estimating 81,000 now, because
I initially set our over-under at 80,000 :lol: and I am now pretending I was very very smart at doing this when I set it :lol:, ...it was just a wild-ass guess based on the flu numbers.
In truth, early inches make it go up or down by powers of ten. A butterfly sneezes...! Nobody's early guess could have been very good. It was and is a dice roll.
Here in the US, mid-April son.
They are wagerin' it will be [b]81,000 dead[/], let's see how it goes
https://covid19.healthdata.org/
Mebbe (but probably not): we'll see.
Same old story...
Thirteen years ago, a group of U.S. public health officials came up with a plan to address what they regarded as one of the medical system’s crucial vulnerabilities: a shortage of ventilators.
The breathing-assistance machines tended to be bulky, expensive and limited in number. The plan was to build a large fleet of inexpensive portable devices to deploy in a flu pandemic or another crisis.
Money was budgeted. A federal contract was signed. Work got underway.
And then things suddenly veered off course. A multibillion-dollar maker of medical devices bought the small California company that had been hired to design the new machines. The project ultimately produced zero ventilators.
They had finished the design and sent three samples to Washington for evaluation. They performed and were a third of the price of the machines sold by the giant that bought the company for $100 million then asked the government for $1.5 million more, got it and promptly assigned everyone working on it to different projects. Later the giant was bought by Medtronic who says, What ventilators?
I doubt he even has that ability
What, mentally?
Practically, who can say no that can't be overruled?
Here in the US, mid-April son.
They are wagerin' it will be 81,000 dead, let's see how it goes
https://covid19.healthdata.org/
Good on Bill Gates btw.
I doubt he even has that ability
Practically, who can say no that can't be overruled?
Ability, not authority --
Partly because, in general, how things get done in the world is not CEOs micromanaging the process. The scale is too large for that. It won't work.
This is not an exact analogy, but if I'm a CEO and I walk down to shipping and I say, "Give me the bills of lading and list of trucks and I'll tell them where to go," I will actually fuck up the logistics department for weeks; and some of those trucks won't arrive, or won't be handled correctly for a while. Because I don't have 20 years of experience in shipping. Like, I just sent the refrigerator trucks north and the shipments sent south will spoil.
He doesn't have to micromanage the truck routing, he can just tell the managers "F New York".
Allllrighty. Well I don't mean to get in the way of your pet theory, knock yourself out.
I didn't put forth the theory, I was just trying to figure out what you thought could stop him.
Yeah, but I answered, and now we are in some sort of quibbling phase where my answer isn't it. Just bring us a link that proves it happened. That will really show I'm wrong.
As if Puerto Rico got the necessary supplies it needed. It only took a good part of a year to provide what was needed the first week. Because Trump is such a good manager.
USNS Comfort is now in NY harbor -- just when needed -- either this proves he is an effective leader or this proves he hates Puerto Rico.
Wait until he finds out how many Puerto Ricans are in NYC :lol:
Actually it proves nothing at all as he had nothing to do with it
Wait until he finds out how many Puerto Ricans are in NYC :lol:
More Puerto Ricans are expatriates than there are Puerto Ricans in Puerto Rico.
We all face problems at this time, today I killed two turds with one stone.
[ATTACH]70156[/ATTACH]
People can blow their noses in that when they get shitfaced too!
So I had heard something but wasn't sure it was a rumor or what, but it's true-- back in early February, the State Department sent 17.8 tons of medical supplies to China, including masks and respirators. This is back when we only had a dozen cases in the US, and the whole thing was a democratic hoax that the media was hyping to hurt Trump's re-election.
Truth is stranger than fiction.
asked for the same supplies we were shipping?
"we should elect somebody who is good with business to run the government" lol
They are wagerin' it will be 81,000 dead, let's see how it goes
https://covid19.healthdata.org/
Three days later, estimate now rises to 93,765
100% true. Feb. 7.
We fought the virus over there so we didn't have to fight it here, or something
It's how USAID operates. They have now been EnTiReLy shut down after it was learned we asked Thailand for supplies while shipping them the same supplies
This is why I hate humans, really.
Russia is sending us stuff.
[SIZE="3"]Putin sends military plane to U.S. with supplies to fight virus[/SIZE]
A Russian military plane carrying medical equipment has departed for the United States, the defense ministry in Moscow said Wednesday, as the Kremlin flexes its soft power amid the coronavirus pandemic. The Antonov-124, "with medical masks and medical equipment on board", left for the U.S. overnight, a statement said, without providing further details. ...
… Contacted by AFP, the defense ministry refused to provide any further information on the delivery, which came after Russian President Vladimir Putin spoke with U.S. counterpart Donald Trump on Monday. ...
[BOLD MINE]
The beautiful Russian nurses accompanying the shipment are classified information. We'll never see 'em.
I want Mike Pence to be my hype man.
He's just as impervious to direct questions as Kellyanne Conway, but prettier.
Infections
COVID-19: Approximately 1,026,974 cases worldwide; 245,573 cases in the U.S. as of Apr. 3, 2020.
Flu: Estimated 1 billion cases worldwide; 9.3 million to 45 million cases in the U.S. per year.
Deaths
COVID-19: Approximately 53,975 deaths reported worldwide; 6,058 deaths in the U.S., as of Apr. 3, 2020.
Flu: 291,000 to 646,000 deaths worldwide; 12,000 to 61,000 deaths in the U.S. per year.
And yet there are tents of overflowing sick people outside several major hospitals, refrigerated trucks in NYC hospital parking lots to hold dead bodies because the morgues are full, and one NYC hospital just reported their first death due to care rationing (i.e., a ventilator could have saved the patient but they were all in use.)
But yeah, man. It's just like the flu.
They didn't prepare. They were lulled into a false sense of security by the myth that an apple a day keeps the doctor away. Didn't work for The Big Apple.
But yeah, man. It's just like the flu.
Goin' by the numbers: Fu Manflu doesn't even measure up to a mediocre flu.
tents of overflowing sick people outside several major hospitals, refrigerated trucks in NYC hospital parking lots to hold dead bodies because the morgues are full, and one NYC hospital just reported their first death due to care rationing (i.e., a ventilator could have saved the patient but they were all in use.)
Sounds to me like a whole whack of elected and appointed employees in NY didn't do, aren't doin', their jobs right.
That's called incompetence: the real public health crisis.
But you can't be specific, right?
Who failed, what action was wrong, can you identify any of "the whole whack" so that others can learn from this mistake?
But you can't be specific, right?
Who failed, what action was wrong, can you identify any of "the whole whack" so that others can learn from this mistake?
I don't live in NY, I live in Louisiana, I'll trust the voters of NY to sort the wheat from chaff.
But even from that distance you're clear that a whole whack of public servants aren't doing their jobs right.
Huh.
But even from that distance you're clear that a whole whack of public servants aren't doing their jobs right.
Huh.
Then explain why there are...
tents of overflowing sick people outside several major hospitals, refrigerated trucks in NYC hospital parking lots to hold dead bodies because the morgues are full, and (why)
one NYC hospital just reported their first death due to care rationing (i.e., a ventilator could have saved the patient but they were all in use.)
I'm all eyes.
What if this had been a biological attack on major metropolitan areas and transportation hubs instead of a natural occurrence? No difference. Everyone knows the Feds can't get relief into place fast enough from experience with previous disasters. It comes down to local and individual preparedness. Both usually drop the ball and neither change their ways afterwards. This has been covered in the Cellar before:
… For the same reason (i.e. inadequate collective defensive systems), some people want to have their own gas masks and chemical protective suits. The government isn't going to issue these items to civilians, except for a few politically high profile locations, even if there is a chemical, biological, or radiological (e.g. dirty bomb) attack let alone just because people may live in a high risk area for these.
That's why it's BYOG(guns), A(ammo), PG(protective gear), W(water), F(food), ... BYOEverything; or, BYEBYE! It's simply not irrational these days to be prepared if one has the means.
You can lead a horse to water; but, you can't make it drink... not unless you give it a rap in the throat. -
Rodney Dangerfield
Municipalities that are suffering can consider this their rap in the throat.
I don't think Johns Hopkins would lie, but I seriously doubt they or anyone else can get accurate numbers at this point. I just read this afternoon several people in China claim the government undercounted deaths by at least 40,000. Seems a lot of governments are doing that to make themselves look better. :(
I don't think Johns Hopkins would lie, but I seriously doubt they or anyone else can get accurate numbers at this point.
The JH folks would probably agree.
Note the word approximately...
Infections
COVID-19: Approximately 1,026,974 cases worldwide; 245,573 cases in the U.S. as of Apr. 3, 2020.
Flu: Estimated 1 billion cases worldwide; 9.3 million to 45 million cases in the U.S. per year.
Deaths
COVID-19: Approximately 53,975 deaths reported worldwide; 6,058 deaths in the U.S., as of Apr. 3, 2020.
Flu: 291,000 to 646,000 deaths worldwide; 12,000 to 61,000 deaths in the U.S. per year.
I just read this afternoon several people in China claim the government undercounted deaths by at least 40,000. Seems a lot of governments are doing that to make themselves look better.
I have no doubt the commies in china are deflatin' the death count just as I have no doubt some of the commies (er, I mean socialists oops, I mean progressives) here, in the U.S., are inflatin' death counts.
Looking at the CDC numbers they're still only estimates for the '17-'18 season and nothing on the '18-'19 season.
What are they doing waiting to see if they stay dead?
[ATTACH]70177[/ATTACH]
As I understand it there is a shitload of flu types out there and each year they predict which ones they have to cover with the vaccine du jour... er, du year?
Some years it works well and some years not so well, '17-'18 not so good and '14-'15 really bad.
With the death toll ranging from 12,000 to 61,000 for the last 10 years.
Of course there's no vaccine for the corvid-19, there isn't even enough tests kits.
I also saw this...
[ATTACH]70178[/ATTACH]
Bastards are picking on me, elder abuse I say. :haha:
Wash your hands, don't touch your pretty face, don't be so touchy-feely, consult your doc if you're worried, don't look to employees for solutions, don't listen to talkin' heads, and calm down.
I'm not sure you have a clear picture of the emotional state of folks who are being careful, we're very calm here. I could imagine your terror of expert advice and government, but I hope that isn't your state. I have employees for exactly this situation, so that they can advise me about things I lack expertise in. I am hopeful that due to social distancing the death count will be low enough so that you can continue to make your claims.
I'm not sure you have a clear picture of the emotional state of folks who are being careful
Sure I do. My urgin' isn't for folks like you & me. All the items on my list...
Wash your hands, don't touch your pretty face, don't be so touchy-feely, consult your doc if you're worried, don't look to employees for solutions, don't listen to talkin' heads, and calm down.
...are commonsensical things I was doin' before commie flu. I imagine most of you were doin' the same ('cept for the gov lovers/apologists).
I could imagine your terror of expert advice and government
Terror? No, annoyance.
but I hope that isn't your state.
I assume you're talkin' about Louisiana and not of mind.
In the tri-parish area things are calm, local elected folks do their job (advise & caution). Insofar as I can tell, this is mostly the case throughout the state (with the exception of Orleans [three hours to the east of me] where the bulk of Louisiana Fu Manflu infection is happenin').
On the state level there's a thinly disguised hysteria at play, evidenced by willingness on the Governor's part to treat the whole state as a hot spot.
I have employees for exactly this situation, so that they can advise me about things I lack expertise in.
I consulted my doc, I do my own readin', keep my own counsel. I mind the elected folks only to navigate 'em.
I am hopeful that due to social distancing the death count will be low enough so that you can continue to make your claims.
Me too. As for my claims: I'm just lookin' at global , national, regional, state, and local numbers (mostly I use John Hopkins).
It must be tough for Fauci to stand next to Pence and Pennywise and listen to their prevarications.
You can see his pain sometimes, but he realizes the country needs someone sane near the helm.
These people can do what they want as long as they stay away from me.
That's a pretty big germ circle.
Sure, it's a germ-in-nation.
These people can do what they want as long as they stay away from me.
They're playin' outside in a severe thunderstorm (not the imaginary hurricane bein' foisted up as real by the
gregariousists).
From George Avery, PhD. MPA
Dr. Avery has a PhD in Health Services Research from the University of Minnesota School of Public Health, and has conducted significant research in the area of public health emergency preparedness, including five journal articles and two book chapters on the topic. He has served on several CDC advisory boards, including a panel on preparedness and emergency response centers, and consulted for the Defense Department on Medical Civic Action program doctrine. He has edited a special issue of the research journal Bioterrorism and Biodefense and served as a reviewer for the Journal of Homeland Security and Emergency Management as well as Disaster Medicine and Public Health. He is a health services researcher with a medical analytics firm in the Midwest, and has formerly been a professor with the public health program at Purdue and worked from 1990-2000 with the Arkansas Department of Health’s Division of Public Health Laboratories.
We are seeing a panic reaction towards the newly emerged SARS-COVID-2 [Wuhan] epidemic, marked by panic buying of items including the much-joked about toilet paper, drastic action by political figures that often impinges on basic civil rights, and potentially devastating lasting economic impact. Much of this has been fueled by naïve and sensationalist reporting of fatality rates, such as a March 10, 2020 report by the Bloomberg news service that implies that 3.4-3.5% of infected individuals die (
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-09/travel-companies-pull-forecasts-italy-extends-ban-virus-update ). This has caused comparisons to the 1919 Influenza A:H1N1 pandemic and its 2.5% case fatality rate, which would qualify as a level 5 event on the CDC’s Pandemic Severity Index (PSI) and has led to a panicked overreaction worldwide. This case fatality rate, however, to a trained epidemiologist is obviously a significant overestimation of the actual fatality rate from the disease.
Ascertainment bias is a systematic error in statistical estimation of a population parameter resulting from errors in measurement - usually, in undermeasurement of a parameter. In this case, we are underestimating the actual number of cases in the population, which is the denominator in the calculation of the estimated case fatality rate. We are accurately estimating deaths, but to get the case fatality rate, we divide deaths by our estimate of the number of cases. Because that it too low due to measurement error, the estimate of the case fatality rate is too high.
For example, for a hypothetical disease if we have three deaths and observed ten cases, then the case fatality rate is 30% (3/10=0.3 or 30%). If, however, there were actually 300 cases, and only 10 were observed and reported, ascertainment bias has led us to underestimate the cases and overestimate the case fatality rate, which is actually 1% (3/300=0.01 or 1%).
In this case, in the absence of population-based screening to more actually estimate the total number of cases, we are only counting cases who are sick enough to seek health care -- almost all disease reports are made by healthcare professionals. We are missing people who have no more than a cold or who are infected but show no symptoms, individuals who almost certainly make up the overwhelming majority of actual cases. Thus, as in my hypothetical example, we are overestimating the case fatality rate for the disease.
There is, however, data available on SARS-COVID-2 [Wuhan] that allows us to get a better grasp on the actual case fatality rates for the virus.
One case is that of the cruise ship Diamond Princess, which achieved some notoriety from the well-publicized outbreak among its 3711 passengers and crew in January and February of 2006. Held aboard in constricted quarters, the population was subject to 3068 polymerase chain reaction (pcr) tests, which identified 634 individuals (17%) as infected, with over half of these infections (328 ) producing no symptoms. Seven infected passengers died, all of them over the age of 70. Adjusting the data for age, researchers at the London Institute of Tropical Medicine have estimated a fatality rate per infection (IFR) for the epidemic in China of 0.5% (95% CI: 0.2-1.2%) during the same period. This is far below the earlier estimates of 3.4% or greater that were promoting panic over the epidemic. See Russell et al, Estimating the infection and case fatality ratio for COVID-19 using age-adjusted data from the outbreak on the Diamond Princess cruise ship, MedRXIV 2020 at
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.05.20031773v2.full.pdf.
South Korea has also implemented far wider population-based screening than the US, expanding their screening past suspected cases to voluntary population screening in geographies frequented by identified cases. As of March 15, as Stanford University economist Richard Epstein has noted, they performed over 235,000 tests and identified 8, 162 infections with 75 deaths (CFR=0.91%). Again, only about 10% of the deaths were in the population under the age of 60. See
https://www.hoover.org/research/coronavirus-isnt-pandemic . While their population screening efforts were far better than that of the United States, this was still not a broad-based screening effort (such as was used on the Diamond Princess), being biased because while it looked at a broader population, it still was enriched with cases by looking only at a segment of the population with a higher risk. Still, the case fatality rate is significantly below the 3.4% rate that caused the public panic.
What we are likely seeing, in my estimation, is an epidemic with a real case fatality rate between 0.2 and 0.5%, which is similar to the 1957 Asian Influenza A:H2N2 or 1968 Hong Kong Influenza A:H3N2 pandemics, which were also essentially virgin field respiratory epidemics. These pandemics rate, not as PSI5 events, but as PSI2 events on the CDC scale. They are certainly atypical and more severe than a PSI1 event (such as a routine seasonal flu epidemic), but not a shattering event like the 1919 influenza A:H1N1 pandemic. These earlier pandemics essentially tripled the number of deaths due to influenza experienced annually, and were posed little long-term economic or other damage to the population despite being handled without the extreme measures that are currently being adopted or proposed by political figures. Like those pandemic events, SARS-COVID-2 [Wuhan] has its most significant impact on elderly or otherwise compromised individuals, with few fatalities observed in the population under the age of 60. From what we have observed, half of those infected show no symptoms, 40% show mild symptoms such as a cold, and only about 2% advance to serious or critical illness. What is needed now is for politicians and the population to pause, take a deep breath, and address the epidemic with rational measures, such as social distancing of the older population, ring screening around identified cases, quarantine of identified infected individuals, and adequate hospital triage systems to protect other patients and health care staff rom infection in order to preserve our ability to treat the most severe cases. This is a strategy identified by myself and colleagues at Purdue in 2007 to ensure adequate capacity to deal with another true influenza pandemic, and it applies to this one as well.
He lost me on his first point about panic buying of toilet paper. He’s wrong about toilet paper. There is a shortage of toilet paper not because of panic buying, but because people are not shitting at work and using the industrial grade commercial toilet paper. My own toilet paper consumption has increased 250% and yet I am not shitting more.
My daughter is home from college, and she is using our toilet paper exclusively.
Our household consumption of toilet paper has probably doubled or maybe tripled.
If you multiply that out for all households, you wind up with a shortage of toilet paper. It’s simple math.
My employers building likely has a glut of toilet paper, and there are pallets of commercial grade toilet paper sitting in warehouses somewhere while the consumer grade shelves are empty.
It’s the same thing with food. Not panic buying. People are eating at home when they used to eat out. The restaurant supply houses have lots of food that they can’t sell, and the supermarkets are empty.
Coronavirus COVID-19 Global Cases as of 4-4-20
Total Confirmed: 1,196,553
Total Deaths: 64,549
Total Recovered: 246,152
-----
World population: 8 billion
Numbers: pay attention.
He lost me on his first point about panic buying of toilet paper.
Yeah, decline the meal cuz you dislike the garnish.
Surely the panic buying was what started emptying the shelves; if they're still empty that would make sense though
Was it really panic buying; or, just small-time investors planning on making a killing in resale profits?
Here's one for you henry.
“Anyone repeating lines like “the Trump administration has failed” is spreading an Orwellian lie. There is no “Trump administration.” There is an elected showman and his cronies, fronting for an unaccountable permanent government. The celebrities are neither in charge of the bureaucrats, nor deserve to be. Anyone can be excused for thinking either team is worse than the other. No one can be excused for confusing the two.”
Using the people on the Diamond Princess may be the best case study we have but I doubt it's a representative population for the country. It may even be overpopulated with a more vulnerable tilt toward elderly. There is always going to be a coulda, shoulda, woulda, factor in the end.
By the way that Navy ship in NY isn't much help, same shit with that ship on the west coast.
The rules from the Navy are no Covid-19 allowed on the ship, no crew leave the ship for the duration. It's supposed to relieve the hospitals by taking the auto accident, heart attack, or other non Covid cases. Since elective surgery is history almost all cases are emergency. The fly in the ointment is before they are brought onboard they have to be tested
at a hospital. First responders will tell you, ain't nobody got time for that.
[youtube]m7HghjNcBoo[/youtube]
Do they realize they're being recorded? Oh well, down the memory hole..
A good read:
[SIZE="3"]Finland, ‘Prepper Nation of the Nordics,’ Isn’t Worried About Masks[/SIZE]
STOCKHOLM — As some nations scramble to find protective gear to fight the coronavirus pandemic, Finland is sitting on an enviable stockpile of personal protective equipment like surgical masks, putting it ahead of less-prepared Nordic neighbors.
The stockpile, considered one of Europe’s best and built up over years, includes not only medical supplies, but also oil, grains, agricultural tools and raw materials to make ammunition. Norway, Sweden and Denmark had also amassed large stockpiles of medical and military equipment, fuel and food during the Cold War era. Later, most all but abandoned those stockpiles.
But not Finland. Its preparedness has cast a spotlight on national stockpiles and exposed the vulnerability of other Nordic nations. ...
It goes on to cover historical and geopolitical reasons why Finland is in a good position; also, why the others are not.
[youtube]m7HghjNcBoo[/youtube]
"Go to the movies."
:mad2:
Doc Drew...
"My early comments about equating coronavirus with influenza were wrong. They were incorrect," Dr. Drew said on Saturday, referring to his consistent comments from February and March. "I was part of a chorus that was saying that, and we were wrong. And I want to apologize for that."
Is he a doctor of medicine? Or a doctor of English? He preaches like an English Nazi.
MD, he's an internist, "addiction medicine specialist", whatever the fuck that is.
MD, he's an internist, "addiction medicine specialist", whatever the fuck that is.
So he was a guy who was pushing opioids. Because extremists believed we should have a right to any medication we deem necessary (desirable). And that responsibility is secondary to what we want.
MD, he's an internist, "addiction medicine specialist", whatever the fuck that is.
That sounds like a neurologist.
Probably not; my first thought was psychiatry, and
this seems to support that:
Dr. Drew Pinsky is a practicing physician, Board Certified in Internal Medicine, and Board Certified in Addiction Medicine. Pinsky is also Assistant Clinical Professor of Psychiatry at the Keck USC School of Medicine.
He was a rehab doctor.
Dr Phil was a psychology PhD, but no longer has a license.
Drew produces about 4 hours of content every day
I listened to him on Mar 18
and reported on it and his advice/information was sensible in context IMO
Without watching the video I suspect somebody has a politically-driven cancel culture agenda item to fulfill
Perhaps hence it was posted in this particular thread
People have extra spare time now, but to go through a month worth of 4 hours/day content in order to selectively edit takes either wild motivation, or a salary
It's just a straightforward video of a person saying things.
It's not deceptively edited or spliced together, it's just a compilation of a person haphazardly wielding their influence to be tragically, emphatically wrong on a subject that has/had real-world consequences.
Is being recorded speaking for four hours a day an excuse for being repeatedly, spectacularly wrong on an important subject? Just weigh the pros and cons-- 1) pros: talking man feels bigly important, 2) cons: talking man disseminates harmful information
I listened to him on Mar 18 and reported on it and his advice/information was sensible in context IMO
Without watching the video I suspect somebody has a politically-driven cancel culture agenda item to fulfill
Not to get in the way of your pet theory, but the video covers what you reported on, and what he later said about what he said then, and what he later said about that, among other things.
I watched him in context, but whatevs!
It's political, it's a dunk video, have fun with your dunking and whatnot
I think the video has a serious use. It's the same as warning people not to put crystals in your vagina because Gwyneth Paltrow, to please ignore Jenny McCarthy about vaccines, and David Avacado Wolfe about everything.
Saying a person said a thing isn't a dunk, it's accountability.
My feeling is, when you watch any edited video, you are getting two points of view
1. The person speaking
2. The editor
I watched it again because you keep mentioning editing. It's somewhat chopped, I note upon review.
I still weigh more heavily that it's impossible in any interpretation that he didn't repeatedly make harmful statements, even accounting for a reverse-Nostradomus effect, where he was repeatedly wrong within a large body of work. And.. since he acknowledged it himself-- that p r o v e s that he actually said and meant it? Right?? Video editing is rendered moot-- he conceded the point ?!
If I had to guess, I would say the backlash to Drew's statements in particular (because plenty of people outside the Fox universe said similar things and aren't getting vilified) have to do with the everpresent condescension in his voice. It wasn't "Don't worry, it's no worse than the flu," it was "no, you fucking morons, it's not dangerous, and you're morally repugnant for ignoring the real danger of the flu." People who get dunked on feel compelled to dunk back.
And to be honest, anyone who had to deal with addicts all day, and then LoveLine callers, and then internet trolls for decades on end... It's easy to understand how the frustration could rot him from within, to the point that that's just his normal way of speaking. Still not a good look, but I guess it's a better job hazard than black lung.
Also, he makes the statements while calling himself "a doctor" ?
that p r o v e s that he actually said and meant it? Right??
How does one defend against cancel culture? Your own instinct is, now we shall X him off the list and never listen to him again!! Radio Doctor BAD!! Literally Paltrow!! How does one defend against that? Not with reasoning!
Meanwhile I report back having listened to the entire hour in the middle of it, wrote up a post about it, and found nothing outrageous... but my post bears no weight whatsoever.
Undertoad BAD!! I guess? Did I fuck up in the past, am I X'd off your list?
If the only people we trust are people who never got anything wrong, we will actually be putting our trust into people who avoided saying anything controversial. Well, fuck that particular kind of shit. I think it will screw us in the end. I think it already has.
you're the only one saying any of those things, that's your hang-up. start a thread
I think the acknowledgement of fault has to play a role, though, as well. We have to be allowed to make mistakes, yes, but we also have to be humble when they happen. I haven't seen any mea culpas from Drew, but maybe he did and they're not getting airtime. I do know that threatening to sue people for copyright infringement for posting freely-available clips of yoir own words is a great way to fan the flames.
Oh yeah I hadn't seen that, that is a horrible look
Looks like some healthcare workers are saying enough is enough and the best thing they can do for patients is put their employer out of business.
[SIZE="3"]Nursing home with 39 coronavirus cases evacuated after staff stops showing up[/SIZE]
Nearly 100 residents had to be removed from a nursing home facility in Southern California on Wednesday after a large portion of its staff stopped showing up for work.
The Magnolia Rehabilitation and Nursing Center in Riverside has 39 confirmed cases of coronavirus, according to county officials, and for two days in a row, 13 of its employees were no-shows. It’s unclear why, exactly, they went AWOL, but with a deficit of nursing assistants, 40 ambulances had to move patients to other facilities — a process that took several hours. ...
Yet Doctors and Nurses are being laid off or getting pay cuts all across the country. :facepalm:
Tribalism is literally going to kill us:
Political Beliefs affect Compliance with COVID-19 Social Distancing Orders
Social distancing is vital to mitigate the spread of the novel coronavirus. We use geolocation data to document that political beliefs present a significant limitation to the effectiveness of state-level social distancing orders. Residents in Republican counties are less likely to completely stay at home after a state order has been implemented relative to those in Democratic counties. We also find that Democrats are less likely to respond to a state-level order when it is issued by a Republican governor relative to one issued by a Democratic governor. These results are robust to controlling for other factors including time, geography, local COVID-19 cases and deaths, and other social distancing orders. We conclude that bipartisan support is essential to maximize the effectiveness of social distancing orders.
True words man. Each of us has to do our part. I personally need to step back and admit I don't understand other people's motivations. Assuming I do cheapens their lives and breaks down our unity as a people. E Plurbus Unum.
I dunno, UT. This sounds like a disclaimer...
… These results are robust to controlling for other factors including time, geography, local COVID-19 cases and deaths, and other social distancing orders. ...
The term
robust in statistics means
accurate. It seems
robust to means accuracy is dependent on controlling for other factors; but, doesn't say whether they did or didn't. If they did, how well could they have factored them in? I'm not going to read the study to find out.
It doesn't seem that political affiliation would be a major factor. IMHO, a better argument could be made for religious affiliation posing a significant tribal detriment to safety.
Keep in mind; though, that we've been using adversarial systems for many things for a long time. It may not be the best in all circumstances; but, it keeps whole herds of humanity from running off the edge of a cliff at one time.
[COLOR="White"].
.[/COLOR]
Coronavirus COVID-19 Global Cases
Confirmed (approximate): 1,631,310
Deaths (approximate): 98,401
Recovered (approximate): 365,722
-----
Infections
COVID-19: Approximately 1,612,646 cases worldwide; approximately 466,299 cases in the U.S. as of Apr. 10, 2020.
Flu: Estimated 1 billion cases worldwide; 9.3 million to 45 million cases in the U.S. per year.
Deaths
COVID-19: Approximately 96,787 deaths reported worldwide; approximately 16,686 deaths in the U.S., as of Apr. 10, 2020.
Flu: 291,000 to 646,000 deaths worldwide; 12,000 to 61,000 deaths in the U.S. per year.
-----
World Population (approximate): 8,000,000,000
-----
A courageous moment of self-correction...
It's Johns Hopkins, not John Hopkins.
Interesting story at the link (excerpt here):
[SIZE="3"]Israel’s Not-So-Secret Weapon in Coronavirus Fight: The Spies of Mossad[/SIZE]
… Professor Kreiss, a former brigadier general in the army and a former surgeon general for the military, said the Mossad had been pivotal in helping his institution secure vital medical equipment and expertise from abroad.
“It is only in Israel that the Sheba hospital could have enlisted the help of the Mossad,” he said in an interview. “Can you imagine Mount Sinai Hospital going to the C.I.A. for help?” he added, referring to the New York medical center. ...
[BOLD MINE]Coronavirus COVID-19 Global Cases
Confirmed (approximate): 1,631,310
Deaths (approximate): 98,401
Recovered (approximate): 365,722
-----
Infections
COVID-19: Approximately 1,612,646 cases worldwide; approximately 466,299 cases in the U.S. as of Apr. 10, 2020.
Flu: Estimated 1 billion cases worldwide; 9.3 million to 45 million cases in the U.S. per year.
Deaths
COVID-19: Approximately 96,787 deaths reported worldwide; approximately 16,686 deaths in the U.S., as of Apr. 10, 2020.
Flu: 291,000 to 646,000 deaths worldwide; 12,000 to 61,000 deaths in the U.S. per year.
-----
World Population (approximate): 8,000,000,000
-----
A courageous moment of self-correction...
It's Johns Hopkins, not John Hopkins.
You can holler all you like that it's not a thing.
It's still a thing.
But don't worry, they're going to "write up papers" on
this.
Trump supporters don't care. he's an authoritarian dictator, but he's their authoritarian dictator.
Not to worry, this is why we have a 2nd Amendment. :rolleyes:
It was only a month ago that everybody* demanded that if he didn't manage everything** he was incompetent
We used this down time to read the Constitution, good for us!
*for various definitions of everybody
**for various definitions of everything
Cuomo addressed that today actually.
People* wanted him to use the federal government's available power to compel manufacturers to ramp up production of medical supplies. We've done this kind of thing** before and it has worked and helped society accomplish difficult goals***. It's a real power, it's not imaginary.
How is that like this new thing?
If I recall, Cuomo argued there is a Federal role for many aspects, equipment purchases and distribution so New York doesn't get in a bidding war with California, international travel rules, and taking on debt for business loans etc... However the lock-down and opening up is more of a State/region issue based on the reality on the ground.
Either Trump is
1) talking out of his @ss, or
2) he said the quiet part out loud-- they* really ARE "writing up papers"
*Kudlow, Mnuchin, Mark Meadows, Wilbur Ross, Jared, and Ivanka
People wanted him to declare a national shutdown
without the consideration that he can't actually "declare" squattah
it's always been my contention that the modern POTUS is MUCH less powerful than we make them out to be -- but we have a powerful human instinct to believe in and look to a singular leader
It is in all POTUS's interests to have people believe they actually are doing everything, it makes them seem powerful and ensures their bullshit legacy
We now know the White House was first informed of this threat in November. All intelligence agencies put that memo on Trumps desk on 12 Jan accurately putting that threat in perspective. The scumbag denied it constantly until late-March when, by that time, it was too late. Even Dr Fauci (in Jama) was stating quite clearly how severe this pandemic would be - in January.
We know who are brainwashed by Fox and other extremist propaganda machines. Even late in March, adults who are still children were reciting those Fox News, et al lies. Claiming Covid-19 was just another flu - no more serious than a common cold. Claiming Covid-19 was a conspiracy. Some adults must be ordered what to believe - cannot think for themselves.
Fortunately America has some adults who are adults. Governors took responsibility and instituted what was necessary to protect the lives of health care workers - doctors and nurses. Otherwise nothing would have been done.
A president with a 30 second attention spam even endorsed bogus drugs to cure Coronavirus - as if that solution was also on the shelves of GNC. The scumbag said that lie too many times to count. Dr Fauci said those solutions do not exist. Probably due to his 30 second attention span (that communists love from their leader), a scumbag ignored it.
He even promoted his son-in-law, Jared Kushner, as his front man to solve this problem. How many extremists conveniently forgot that.
Dr Fauci accurately confirmed that a lockdown and social distancing was strongly recommended twice - in February. As the New York Times accurately reported. (And extremists are now denying.) Many promoters of this scumbag president (worse than George Jr) were denying this threat. Because their news sources are a credible as 1960 Radio Moscow. Because the president kept lying. Because only extremists would believe those lies. And deny what Dr Fauci, Dr Kadlec and others bluntly recommended.
So Trump lies again tweeting
the Fake News Opposition Party is pushing, with all their might, the fact that President Trump ‘ignored early warnings about the threat’.
At what point does an extremist finally admit the scumbag is a relentless liar? IOW at what point do extremists finally do what 'adults who are adults' do? Grasp reality.
Meanwhile another anti-America (because he lies constantly), Hannity, said we should thank Trump for protected lives. One small problem. Trump refused to do what even his top doctors strongly recommended. Hannity's job is to lie to communists (people who love despots and kings) who wait to be told what to think.
White House spokesman Judd Deere said Trump
took bold action to protect Americans and unleash the full power of the federal government to curb the spread of the virus, expand testing capacities, and expedite vaccine development when we had no true idea the level of transmission or asymptomatic spread.
Of course, that also was a lie.
The White House Rose Garden news conference last month is when he said plenty of test kits will be available, the government will provide necessary protective materials and ventilators, and even Google will have necessary software next week. Google immediately said no such software exists or will exist for months. Only six testing sites were setup up in the entire country. Including none in Target - who did not even know that Trump said they would participate. Almost everything he said in that press conference is clearly a lie - to promote the scumbag.
But then he is only lying to 'adults who are children'. Who will now forget that he lied then repeatedly - as a monotonous liar always does.
Even the Guardian (from London) cites the source of this and future problems.
This administration has cleared out science and scientists across all departments.
Trump is smarter than the generals, governors, diplomats, and scientists. Why? Because so many anti-Americans still refuse to mock and insult the scumbag. Because extremists, even in the Cellar, remain 'adults who are still children'. With a classic communist attitude. They worship Trump as a god. The could not see a false idol even if thousands of American lives (especially doctors and nurses) are massacred for no purpose. (Who also did that?)
We don't need them doctors and nurses. They make decisions based in science. So they must be fake news. And therefore are evil. A president with a 30 second attention span is smarter than doctors and nurses. It is only a matter of time before he also admits that.
Dr Fauci could not state honesty on Fox News. So he said it on CNN. Then a "30 second attention span" tweeted about firing Fauci. Since Fauci was disloyal; Fauci told the truth. That is fake news. A scumbag now denies he tweeted that firing threat. No problem. His extremist disciples always believe what the scumbag says - even when he is lying - like any good communist would do.
The central committee tells communist what to believe.
Never forget when extremists news sources finally admitted a truth. Obviously a president's 30 second attention spam and inflated ego makes it impossible to become a responsible leader. Fortunately the US has patriotic American governors who took over when the anti-American president refused to.
Those are not insults. Those are facts repeatedly demonstrated even by a Covid-19 crisis.
Now the scumbag is claiming he is a king - just like Nixon did when he was overtly lying about Watergate. Evil kings and presidents routinely lie. Especially one with a 30 second attention span.
Trump wants to restart the pandemic. Since he fears how this economic malaise - made worse by ignoring adults who are adults - will cause even extremists to admit he is a buffon. So he will order all Governors to throw gasoline on the fire. Governors, acting as adults, defined it that accurately. The Governors will decide when facts (not a child) says it is time to go back.
Only Governors did this shutdown - not Trump. Governors will decide (as adults) when it is safe to (and how many can) go back. The president, acting as a king in a nursery rhyme, thinks only he is smart enough to make such decisions. Since that 'adult who is still a child' uses emotions and his 30 second attention span to be the only expert.
Amazing how anti-Americans still do not disparage this scumbag. But then some adults are still children - use emotions like a lemming to run off a cliff.
As Rush Limbaugh told adult children, the news is too complicated. Rush said he will tell us what to think. Another mouse piece for our glorious leader (who also praises Kim for being his kind of extremist) - whose 30 second attention span makes him smarter than everyone else.
People wanted him to declare a national shutdown
without the consideration that he can't actually "declare" squattah
it's always been my contention that the modern POTUS is MUCH less powerful than we make them out to be -- but we have a powerful human instinct to believe in and look to a singular leader
It is in all POTUS's interests to have people believe they actually are doing everything, it makes them seem powerful and ensures their bullshit legacy
There's a thread through all of this. People want him to do the objectively right thing.
Declare a national shutdown-- good
Produce/distribute medical supplies-- good
Force people back to work, against the warnings of scientists-- "not good"
What he can or can't actually do be damned. If he would just use whatever powers he thinks he has to do GOOD THINGS.
Also, while claiming he has absolute authority is inherently bad, the particular power that the claim was in context of was to order the states to stop doing what they are doing.
So there's absolutely no contradiction with anyone who said he wasn't doing enough also having a problem with his latest claim.
Oh man, those of you getting your stimulus payment by direct deposit instead of a check are going to miss out!
[SIZE="3"]Coming to your $1,200 relief check: Donald J. Trump’s name[/SIZE]
… The unprecedented decision, finalized late Monday, means that when recipients open the $1,200 paper checks the IRS is scheduled to begin sending to 70 million Americans in coming days, “President Donald J. Trump” will appear on the left side of the payment. ...
Oh man, those of you getting your stimulus payment by direct deposit instead of a check are going to miss out!
Oh, look. Donald Trump put his name on something.
That's new.
What he can or can't actually do be damned. If he would just use whatever powers he thinks he has to do GOOD THINGS.
That would be a nice change.
But I'm not exactly holding my breath.
Oh, look. Donald Trump put his name on something.
That's new.
But he's going to be to the left instead of to the right! :lol:
Meanwhile in PA, Republicans voted to end Gov Wolf's social distancing as death numbers start going down but won't have the 2/3 majority to over-ride a veto if their plan is you know, political bullshit.
This is of interest to me because naturally my rural reps are all GOP and I don't know if a rural wave is lagging the urban one.
… Meanwhile in EnZed, Jacinda Ardern and ministers take pay cut in solidarity with those hit by Covid-19
They can donate their 20% to the WHO.
There's a thread through all of this. People want him to do the objectively right thing.
Declare a national shutdown-- good
Produce/distribute medical supplies-- good
Force people back to work, against the warnings of scientists-- "not good"
What he can or can't actually do be damned. If he would just use whatever powers he thinks he has to do GOOD THINGS.
ƒlint, that's a pretty good summation. I would add that the very senior Whitehouse official in question *DOES* do good things, at all times, but the official's definition of what's good and our definition of what's good are rarely aligned and almost always polar opposites.
This comes from the underlying affinity for authoritarianism that lies in each of us. That Force is strong in this one, but produces a certain amount of revulsion in you and me.
He is doing good, deflecting responsibility, continuously editing and rewriting the narrative, taking credit for positive events (real or imagined), valuing loyalty over competence and honesty, the beat goes on and on and on. These are definitely good things for an authoritarian. For those of us who want a more representative leader, it misses the mark; these actions seem counterproductive.
He's reliable, consistent, predictable;
he'll do what's good for him. You and I are no more than props, foils, reflective surfaces for him to bask in.
Most needed action is testing at a national level. In countries, where testing is widely available, this pandemic is subsiding. Testing is how a pandemic is identified, isolated, and other potential victims quarantined. Explains why other nations have finally got a handle on it. Thereby quashing their pandemic.
In America, where testing remains mostly unavailable due to inaction at the Federal level, only social distancing (actions at the state levels) have diminished this pandemic. Velocity is still increasing. But acceleration has slightly diminished in some venues. So the president declares it will end in a week. A 30 second attention span makes it impossible for him to understand the different between velocity and acceleration.
No problem. He is preaching to people who all but want to be brainwashed.
He refuses to admit his inactions are why we don't have necessary widespread testing that other nations have and have successfully implemented.
No problem. Just blame it all on the WHO. Who has Trump not yet blamed for anything? Well he did not yet blame 'The Who'.
I still cannot get on his enemies list. I blame him.
I was unable to find a single mention of hydrochloroquine in
that article. Fake news?
This one makes me SO FUCKING ANGRY
While everyone else cancelled their extended family get together plans and just used Zoom/whatever, Ivanka/Donaldetta travelled from DC to Virus hotspot New Jersey to celebrate with her family and the whitwhouse is defendidng it saying it's no different from travelling to work.
There is nothing right about this
No Doctors or grocery store workers are doing this kind of travel for work -with their families.........
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52317673#Do as we say, not as we do.
Right, what good is privilege if you don't use it?!?!
Since when have the pretty girls ever had to follow the rules. Next thing you know, there'll be college admissions scandals.
Do as we say, not as we do.
The Don has already declared himself king. He is above the law. Like Nixon, he said so. So they are also royalty. They also can do as they please.
There's only one King of the United States, HRH Garfield Goose:
[ATTACH]70330[/ATTACH][ATTACH]70332[/ATTACH]
The Don is a pretender to the throne. We'll look into this matter.
[excerpt]
[SIZE="3"]The POTUS and the Goose Who Would be King[/SIZE]
… And King Garfield had a loyal puppet sidekick—Romberg Rabbit. I guess you could say Romberg was his chief of staff. Romberg remained by King Garfield’s side for the duration of his twenty-four-year television reign (no term limits!) The squatter, on the other hand, goes through chiefs of staff like water. I’m sure the squatter fervently wishes he could have such an unwaveringly loyal puppet sidekick, besides Ben Carson. ...
https://www.wfft.com/content/news/Hundreds-protest-Michigan-governors-social-distancing-order-569671851.html
Having triggered this himself, it seems like Trumpy would be much more comfortable agitating from outside the government than attempting to help with a smooth opening.
how do you figure he triggered it
Looks like my timing is off. He joined the protestors on Friday.
Why would he do that, while at the same time self-congratulating and congratulating the American people for their social distancing efforts?
because populist movement in critical battleground state
Why would the opposition EVER fight a populist movement in a critical battleground state?
because fighting dear leader is more rewarding to their dopamine levels than winning elections by pretending to be on the side of what used to be their working class voter base
and this is how he wins
Why would he do that, while at the same time self-congratulating and congratulating the American people for their social distancing efforts?
because populist movement in critical battleground state
Why would the opposition EVER fight a populist movement in a critical battleground state?
because fighting dear leader is more rewarding to their dopamine levels than winning elections by pretending to be on the side of what used to be their working class voter base
and this is how he wins
Maura Liasson must read your posts.
Why would he do that, ...
As one commentator noted, he his not a dictator. He only acts like one on TV. His supporters want a fictional world where everything is only good or evil. And everything is understood in tweets.
His supporters want a fictional world where everything is only good or evil.
His opponents help frame everything that way -- by simply declaring him evil and saying the negative of him is default good
The stereotyped opponent is saying nothing but "Orange man bad" because the knee-jerk standard complaint is such an utter simplification - and so predictable
You can't have it both ways UT.
You can't on the one hand say that a blanket opposition to him is bad and also say on the other hand to parse his specific words and his particular actions is unfair. He's a shit magnet. He's a political and media katamari.
One is a remark on his actions and the other is an explanation of his rhetoric. I never spoke of parsing particular actions. Parsing is what you do with language
He did not address the missing 1 million test kits that are needed. Test kits that remain in short supply because he obstructed the necessary response two months ago.
That was in early March. What did countries like Germany and South Korea do? Expedited test kits. Even anti-body test kits could have been available long ago had some effort been made (at the highest levels of government) to stop obstructing their development - even last month.
As I understand it, the US is now testing 150,000 people daily. That means everyone cannot be tested until 2025. Other medical people have been routinely complaining that, at this pathetically slow rate, it could take until 2027.
Worse, testing by commerical laboratories is slowing due no chemicals necessary to process those tests. All this was discussed in a Pandemic Playbook submitted to The Don in 2018. He trashed it and disbanned that entire group that would respond to a pandemic.
Even a mental midget president would not be as dumb as a scumbag one. But then that other president is not accused, by close personal aides, of having a 30 second attention span. Or that meetings are like baby sitting.
What does he undestand. "You're fired!" He only understands destructiion.
What is THE routine complaint today? Same as was posted on 9 March 2020 when almost no test kits existed. When 3500 people on the Diamond Princess needed testing and only 45 test kits could be found to helicopter out to that ship.
We know why these problems exist. Even then, The Don was calling Covid-19 a hoax invented by his enemies and the press. And Jared Kushner would head a committee that would solve it. He did not have experience. So the VP - also with no experience - was put in charge.
Testing is essential before anyone can even discuss opening the country. But that means every American moderate and even some extremists must learn who keeps obstructing solutions. And then blaming others.
85% of all problems are directly traceable to top management. So he is even blaming many past presidents. Only one person is not blamed. The 30 second attention span. Only he is solving it. Extremist believe it. So it must be true. It must be safe to eliminate social distancing and quarantines. A dictator, with a 30 second attention span, said so.
Somehow there are plenty of test kits available.
One is a remark on his actions and the other is an explanation of his rhetoric.
Only explanation of his rhetoric is what we routinely saw in local NYC news even decades ago. He lies daily.
He could murder someone on Fifth Ave and still get elected president? That was an honest man? Denial and ignorance remains that common among the many hiding under MAGA hats. Facts are glaring.
He even stated why he routinely lies. To make himself look good. And to make others think good of him. At what point is that anything but a despot? He does not fold his arms like Mussolini. Otherwise, what is different?
The explanation of his rhetoric is why he lies ... daily. And then always blames others.
Explanation was from many weeks ago, you never read it
Interesting how the pandemic bowl is bringing people together, like Biden and Obama!
The ball was received by Bush-Cheney:
[YOUTUBE]spcj6KUr4aA[/YOUTUBE]
Bush passed it to Obama-Biden.
They fumbled it, for eight years, with insufficient forward gain in quality of support, quantity in national stockpiles, or strategically decentralized storage locations to make supplies rapidly available where they where projected to be needed most.
Trump-Pence picked up the fumble at the three year line and ran with it.
Meanwhile, Obama sulks on the sideline and reluctantly supports Biden, to protect their legacies, as Biden tries to get back into the game.
[SIZE="3"]Heartbroken' Obama 'eager' to help Biden defeat Trump in election[/SIZE]
… Obama insiders reportedly expect the former president to campaign for Biden during the remainder of 2020, though he previously did not have confidence in the former vice president's ability to win the election. …
… Biden reportedly did not inspire confidence in the former president. “You don’t have to do this, Joe, you really don’t,” Obama told Biden prior to his campaign launch, according to the New York Times.
However, with Biden as the presumptive Democratic nominee for president, Obama summoned top Biden aides to his Washington, D.C., office to develop campaign strategy. Obama instructed them that, whether the former vice president were to win or lose the presidential race, they cannot allow Biden to “embarrass himself” or “damage his legacy."
Of course... of course.
Explanation was from many weeks ago, you never read it
Explanation remains today as it did weeks ago and 30 years ago. Only thing that matters is lying to advance himself. Lying is his nature. Only his supporters ignore or forget his daily lies.
Bush passed it to Obama-Biden.
They fumbled it, for eight years, with insufficient forward gain in quality of support, quantity in national stockpiles, or strategically decentralized storage locations to make supplies rapidly available where they where projected to be needed most.
That was the Pandemic Playbook. Started in 2015 by Obama's people. Delivered to The Don in 2018. Who then disbanned the entire thing that year.
tw, I moved your political post from the COVID thread into this thread.
Too Little, Too Late Obama had people create a Playbook for what to do; when, he should have already done most of it! Even after being warned by Bush, he fumbled it on his watch and passed those deficiencies on. A playbook on what he should've done doesn't add supplies to the national stockpile; or, strategically place them for rapid access. If the playbook was of any significant value, Biden would be touting it every day; but, perhaps he can't do that without drawing attention to the Playbook's raison d'etre … Obama-Biden failures. That's why Obama will be keeping Biden closer.
[SIZE="3"]Preparations made after previous outbreaks[/SIZE]
Reports predicting global pandemics
In the most recent pandemic prior to COVID-19, the 2009 H1N1 swine flu took the lives of more than 12,000 Americans and hospitalized another 200,000. Because of this pandemic and the 2014 Ebola epidemic, which saw only a small number of Americans infected, the Obama Administration increased planning and analysis that focused on deficiencies in the government's response to outbreaks. In 2017, outgoing Obama administration officials briefed incoming Trump administration officials on how to respond to pandemics by using simulated scenarios, although by the time of the COVID-19 outbreak in the U.S., around two-thirds of Trump administration officials at the briefing had left the administration.
[BOLD MINE]Trump supporters don't care. he's an authoritarian dictator, but he's their authoritarian dictator.
Don't believe either one; he's neither. What's more, he doesn't belong to us. Hell, I didn't vote for him. Yet. How could I claim the guy? He's a tycoon, not a politico, and some dope is going to tell me that's a dealbreaker??? I think some dope is going to get crushingly ignored. Out of sheer personal excellence, I'll not describe his immediate ancestry, while perhaps questioning whether he's a precious child of God.
Authoritarian Dictators, even capitalised, never support gun rights -- repeat, never. Not ever. Has this *never* entered your head, DanaC? Doesn't look like it. Your education is wanting. Dictatorships can't survive armed polities -- societies so principled are pretty much the only civilized ones -- can't do that worst of barbarisms, state barbarism.
(Every not-democrat in the forum just rolled his eyes reading this.)
Begin by studying dictators, so you'll actually know one when you see one, and not get yourself fact-checked into splinters.
As one commentator noted, he his not a dictator. He only acts like one on TV. [If there -- UG] His supporters want a fictional world where everything is only good or evil. And everything is understood in tweets.
There are two kinds of people in the world: those who believe that -- and those who are
au courant.Too Little, Too Late Obama had people create a Playbook for what to do; when, he should have already done most of it!
Political spin. Reality: Sars (a coronavirus) is why the George Jr administration began addressing this problem after 2003. As that promised to be a pandemic, then suddenly (and curiously) it stopped.
Swine Flu (H2N1) in 2009 revived efforts to prepare. Even National Guard units were training for pandemic evacuations starting somewhere before or in 2009.
Mers (another coronavirus) in 2012 then resulted in another reexamination. Two years later, Ebola further enhanced preparation that resulted in creation of the Pandemic Playbook starting in 2015. All that during Obama's era.
Everything was setup and ready to go when a president, using his 30 second attention span, destroyed it all.
We know when programs, started as a result of that 2015 study, were stifled - in and after 2016. Lack of support (ie refusing to fund purchases) by the executive branch was evident. He wants more money for the military and cuts to all other programs.
Preparations and reevaluation had been constantly occurring and were upgraded with both George Jr and Obama. Even identified in 2015 was a severe shortage of masks and other protective gear that had not been identified by the George Jr administration.
But some of us so hate America as to not badmouth what is clearly a worst American president in over 100 years. A 30 second attention span exists because so many of us so hate America as to even vote for a man - who can kill someone on Fifth Ave and still be elected. He so hates the American people as to even insist in March 2020 that Covid-19 was a hoax. No way around reality and who he is.
"destroyed it all"? Then, tw, you'd be among the umpty-hundred-thousand dead.
If you believe yourself an immortal, you're a bigger fool than you daily tell me you are.
Too Little, Too Late Obama had people create a Playbook for what to do; when, he should have already done most of it!
Doesn't explain Trump walking backwards on it.
Too Little, Too Late Obama had people create a Playbook for what to do; when, he should have already done most of it!
Political spin. Reality: Sars (a coronavirus) is why the George Jr administration began addressing this problem after 2003. As that promised to be a pandemic, then suddenly (and curiously) it stopped.
Swine Flu (H2N1) in 2009 revived efforts to prepare. Even National Guard units were training for pandemic evacuations starting somewhere before or in 2009.
Mers (another coronavirus) in 2012 then resulting in another reexamination. Two years later, Ebola further enhanced preparation that resulted in creation of the Pandemic Playbook starting in 2015. All that during Obama's ear.
Everything was setup and ready to go when a president, using his 30 second attention span, destroyed it all.
We know when programs, started as a result of that 2015 study, were stifled - in and after 2016. Lack of support (ie refusing to fund purchases) by the executive branch was evident. He wants more money for the military and cuts to all other programs.
Preparations and reevaluation had been constantly occurring and were upgraded with both George Jr and Obama. Even identified in 2015 was a severe shortage of masks and other protective gear that had not been identified by the George Jr administration.
But some of us so hate America as to not badmouth what is clearly a worst American president in over 100 years. A 30 second attention span exists because so many of us so hate America as to even vote for a man - who can kill someone on Fifth Ave and still be elected. He so hates the American people as to even insist in March 2020 that Covid-19 was a hoax. No way around reality and who he is.
Political spin. Reality: Sars (a coronavirus) is why the George Jr administration began addressing this problem after 2003. As that promised to be a pandemic, then suddenly (and curiously) it stopped.
Swine Flu (H2N1) in 2009 revived efforts to prepare. Even National Guard units were training for pandemic evacuations starting somewhere before or in 2009.
Mers (another coronavirus) in 2012 then resulted in another reexamination. Two years later, Ebola further enhanced preparation that resulted in creation of the Pandemic Playbook starting in 2015. All that during Obama's era.
Everything was setup and ready to go when a president, using his 30 second attention span, destroyed it all.
We know when programs, started as a result of that 2015 study, were stifled - in and after 2016. Lack of support (ie refusing to fund purchases) by the executive branch was evident. He wants more money for the military and cuts to all other programs.
Preparations and reevaluation had been constantly occurring and were upgraded with both George Jr and Obama. Even identified in 2015 was a severe shortage of masks and other protective gear that had not been identified by the George Jr administration.
But some of us so hate America as to not badmouth what is clearly a worst American president in over 100 years. A 30 second attention span exists because so many of us so hate America as to even vote for a man - who can kill someone on Fifth Ave and still be elected. He so hates the American people as to even insist in March 2020 that Covid-19 was a hoax. No way around reality and who he is.
Political spin. Reality: Sars (a coronavirus) is why the George Jr administration began addressing this problem after 2003. As that promised to be a pandemic, then suddenly (and curiously) it stopped.
Swine Flu (H2N1) in 2009 revived efforts to prepare. Even National Guard units were training for pandemic evacuations starting somewhere before or in 2009.
Mers (another coronavirus) in 2012 then resulting in another reexamination. Two years later, Ebola further enhanced preparation that resulted in creation of the Pandemic Playbook starting in 2015. All that during Obama's ear.
Everything was setup and ready to go when a president, using his 30 second attention span, destroyed it all.
We know when programs, started as a result of that 2015 study, were stifled - in and after 2016. Lack of support (ie refusing to fund purchases) by the executive branch was evident. He wants more money for the military and cuts to all other programs.
Preparations and reevaluation had been constantly occurring and were upgraded with both George Jr and Obama. Even identified in 2015 was a severe shortage of masks and other protective gear that had not been identified by the George Jr administration.
But some of us so hate America as to not badmouth what is clearly a worst American president in over 100 years. A 30 second attention span exists because so many of us so hate America as to even vote for a man - who can kill someone on Fifth Ave and still be elected. He so hates the American people as to even insist in March 2020 that Covid-19 was a hoax. No way around reality and who he is.
Get a grip on yourself, tw. You posted the same thing twice. Let it go, man. There are more important things going on in the world. Look, Apollonia and Sheila E are fueding!
[SIZE="3"]Apollonia Slams Sheila E.’s Prince Tribute: ‘You Are So Desperate to Be Relevant’[/SIZE]
Tw, you are so desperate to be relevant.Doesn't explain Trump walking backwards on it.
Because it's there (and it was Obama's).
If people aren't OK with that, they can blame themselves for not having fielded a better Democratic candidate in '16.
This one makes me SO FUCKING ANGRY
While everyone else cancelled their extended family get together plans and just used Zoom/whatever, Ivanka/Donaldetta travelled from DC to Virus hotspot New Jersey to celebrate with her family and the whitwhouse is defendidng it saying it's no different from travelling to work.
I agree; also, NYC Gov's brother and CNN guy Chris Cuomo violated quarantine in a similar way AFTER TESTING POSITIVE ...and nobody really cares
This from the guy who could have exposed his own mom. What......a......Dick
You're making the assumption no one wants to kill their Mom.
Political spin.
. . .
But some of us so hate America as to not badmouth what is clearly a worst American president in over 100 years. A 30 second attention span exists because so many of us so hate America as to even vote for a man - who can kill someone on Fifth Ave and still be elected. He so hates the American people as to even insist in March 2020 that Covid-19 was a hoax. No way around reality and who he is.
He did not insist the epidemic or the virus was any hoax, as actually reading the transcript can tell you -- but it shan't, you hater.
What is anyone doing listening to Hill Democratic spokesmen when intellectual powerhouses like Mark Levin or Dennis Prager or Sebastian Gorka are available? Really, some people are only fit to talk about the Steele dossier with the Easter Bunny. Over caramel mochas.
He did not insist the epidemic or the virus was any hoax,
Yes he did - in the White House press room. And repeatedly. How quickly his brainwashed supporters forget that he lies repeatedly - to wreck shit.
He cannot help himself since he has been lying all his life. He also forgets that NSC blunt warning on 12 Jan accurately describing what was coming. Maybe because that warning was more than 140 characters - a tweet. Too long for his 30 second attention span.
His mouthpiece - Fox News - also repeated that lie. Even their Dr Drew is cited here lying about what was obvious.
The Don's sidekick (VP Pence) today lied plenty of test kits are available. Numbers - what liars must always avoid. America can only test 150,000 per day. A number that is decreasing due to a severe lack of reagents (another problem created by top management).
Numbers that brainwashed Americans ignore to stay brainwashed (same reason those people wanted 5000 American soldiers massacred in Iraq for no purpose). Medical professionals say testing must be somewhere between 5,000,000 and 20,000,000 tests daily.
That is 30+ times more than are currently available. But Pence today said enough kits are available. He lied. He is an extremists. Lying is part of that life style.
The brainwashed refuse to mock their false idols. America's enemies even said they want to
wreck shit. Well, these extremists have the leaders, deaths, and economic destruction they want.
Today's trophy for "lie of the day" goes to VP Pence.
How long is Pence's attention span? Apparently long enough to understand The Don's orders - to lie.
You posted the same thing twice
That is once for each eye. So that you cannot ignore it.
That's what all the dementia folks say.
How are things there at the home? Getting enough to eat, good healthcare, are they keeping you safe?
The Don's sidekick (VP Pence) today lied plenty of test kits are available.
I don't think he lied, he just misspoke because he has no idea what's going on, not a clue.
I don't think he lied, he just misspoke because he has no idea what's going on, not a clue.
Another likely possibility.
But others must always assume that one, who does not say why with perspective, is lying. Any educated person must assume that every time Sen Inhofe of Oklahoma denies global warming. He never knows why. He never provides numbers. He knows only because he feels. That is a classic example of an adult who thinks like a child. So others can only conclude he is lying.
Me too. Make a little room, willya? Six feet oughta be good.
tw: No.
Stop trusting the talking points of the not-so-Democrats; it will help you avoid political sluttishness that will lead you to the slaves' fetters. I have distrusted them for years.
You do not display the wit to listen to Republicans, let alone Hannity, Elder, or Levin. I am more intelligent than you are.
I don't think he lied, he just misspoke because he has no idea what's going on, not a clue.
Saying something is true when you don't
know whether it's true or not is also lying.
Saying something is true when you don't
care whether it's true or not is bullshitting.
Both can be done simultaneously.
Yes he did - in the White House press room. And repeatedly. How quickly his brainwashed supporters forget . . .
That has been rated 4 Pinocchios by the Washington Post, no less. You are busted. Boy are you busted.:dunce:
And the only thing they wreck seems to be your mood. I must say, it's easy to do.
:rolleyes:
Hi UG
Trump didn't say those words, exactly. He definitely implied it (listen for the emotional impact).
Protip, you might not want to spend too much time around the Washington Post's Fact Checker.
All those pointy Pinocchios could prove dangerous to your particular bubble.
Neat trick, when I haven't a bubble.
I also haven't a prejudice.
I do work up an abiding dislike for the anti-civil liberties, anticapitalist, and anti-American machinations of a large minority of the American population and their Representatives in Congress. The Annoying Orange has set these latter at their proper valuation, which is considerably smaller than they claim.
Having this dislike, brought on by memory, I urge everyone to vote against 'em.
Because you value your brain (and the sound of your own voice, God love 'em) So. Much. More. Than ours, say what you mean again for us mortals, please. Small words are good ;short sentences are better.
The mayors and governors hold the President and federal government responsible for providing PPE. Then they complain if the feds appropriate PPE that cities and states have sourced themselves.
With responsibility goes commensurate authority. The mayors and governors relinquished their authority over appropriations when they deflected responsibility to the federal government.
By that logic, the federal government is now responsible for the care and result. But that's not happening, is it? It seems like they only want the authority and not the responsibility.
That's what the cities and states bargained for when they deflected responsibilities. The federal government gets to pick and choose which responsibilities it wants to accept while getting all of the abdicated authority. Its under no obligation to please all of the people all of the time. It's good to be the Fed.
It's not. Your statement was an erroneous deduction.
By that logic, the federal government is now responsible for the care and result. ...
Cities and states don't get to assign responsibilities to the feds by defaulting on them. The President doesn't answer to mayors and governors. The President gets to pick and choose answering only to the people in the general election. Another four years of Trump for you.
Because you value your brain (and the sound of your own voice, God love 'em) So. Much. More. Than ours, say what you mean again for us mortals, please. Small words are good ;short sentences are better.
Come now, really. With that attitude, how valuable is yours? What happens to the value with the attitude shorn off? So here, gratis, free of charge, a pro-tip: empty sarcasm doesn't buy impressiveness; rigorous reason does.
I've got a couple million of these, and I'm always willing to pour them over your head.
So here, gratis, free of charge, a pro-tip: empty sarcasm doesn't buy impressiveness; rigorous reason does.
If someone has a 30 second attention span. Then thinks about something for 30 seconds. Is that rigorous reasoning? No wonder Clorox is recommended to increase health.
But do you know of anyone who has died from Corvid-19 who ate Tide Pods?
Come now, really. With that attitude, how valuable is yours? What happens to the value with the attitude shorn off? So here, gratis, free of charge, a pro-tip: empty sarcasm doesn't buy impressiveness; rigorous reason does.
I've got a couple million of these, and I'm always willing to pour them over your head.
You aren't getting the effect you are trying for.
The mayors and governors hold the President and federal government responsible for providing PPE. Then they complain if the feds appropriate PPE that cities and states have sourced themselves.
With responsibility goes commensurate authority. The mayors and governors relinquished their authority over appropriations when they deflected responsibility to the federal government.
Except when they get PPE, Trump has FEMA come by and grab it off of them.
So? That's a President's prerogative. There'll also be redistribution between federal agencies to keep the military effective and start rebuilding the national stockpile for the next wave:
[SIZE="3"]VA health chief acknowledges a shortage of protective gear for its hospital workers[/SIZE]
… But in an interview, the physician in charge of the country’s largest health-care system acknowledged the shortage — and said masks and other supplies are being diverted for the national stockpile.
“I had 5 million masks incoming that disappeared,” said Richard Stone, executive in charge of the sprawling Veterans Health Administration. …
… He said the Federal Emergency Management Agency directed vendors with equipment on order from VA to instead send it to FEMA to replenish the government’s rapidly depleting emergency stockpile. ...
So? That's a President's prerogative. There'll also be redistribution between federal agencies to keep the military effective and start rebuilding the national stockpile for the next wave:
Seizing states' property is a presidential prerogative?
Okay. Just keep that in mind.
This is particularly funny, given that the president said he wasn't going to help the states because "he's not a shipping clerk".
Yep, there's a laundry list of Presidential emergency powers.
The President isn't a shipping clerk for the states. He's a procurement officer for the federal government. The states aren't going to fight our battles to support and defend the Constitution … not now; or, in the future.
Cities and states can afford to get tunnel vision. The federal government can't, it has to see the big picture. Hence, the emergency powers.
Yep, there's a laundry list of Presidential emergency powers.
The President isn't a shipping clerk for the states. He's a procurement officer for the federal government. The states aren't going to fight our battles to support and defend the Constitution … not now; or, in the future.
Cities and states can afford to get tunnel vision. The federal government can't, it has to see the big picture. Hence, the emergency powers.
Powers like...Ripping off the VA for masks and then selling them to foreign governments?
Powers like that?
Your timelines are skewed. The export to China was back in February when it was hoped to better contain the virus there.
Your references are vague. The accounting was for many types of masks, not just those effective against the virus.
My reference stated that masks ordered by the VA were redirected to the national stockpile.
Sorry you've developed tunnel vision. It's a symptom of being stressed out. Such occurrences are commonplace; but, their numbers make no difference in the grand scheme of things. Lions care not about the thoughts of sheep. If you didn't already have your own cache of PPE, you're a sheep. Another four years of Trump will toughen you up.
If you didn't already have your own cache of PPE, you're a sheep. Another four years of Trump will toughen you up.
Yeah, we're done here.
You were done for before you began. :p:
Your references are vague. The accounting was for many types of masks, not just those effective against the virus.
All masks are effective. Some more than others. Claims or denials say nothing useful without numbers. Even a cloth bandanna is will block 50% of a virus. Other masks will do 70% or 80%. The N95 masks only do 95%.
All masks are effective. Even covering a face with a hand does something useful. Some solutions are more or less effective than others. Any mask is better than none.
From the NY Times of 27 April 2020:
260,000 Words, Full of Self-Praise, From Trump on the Virus Three journalists from The New York Times reviewed more than 260,000 words spoken by President Trump during the pandemic. Here's what we learned.
What a buffoon.
Due to his 30 second attention span, he probably thought Bugs Bunny was praising him.
on April 13, Mr. Trump insisted that governors were so satisfied with his performance they hadn't asked for anything on a recent conference call. "There wasn't even a statement of like, 'We think you should do this or that,'" he said. "I heard it was, like, just a perfect phone call."
Being an adult who is clearly still a child, he only heard what he wanted to hear. Amazing that a few here still do not understand that - even after he praised Nazis, White Supremacists, and the KKK.
He could help educate us. Demonstrate in a next press conference how to drink Clorox. That would put a bright light on everything. A bright light, he told us, also would cure a pandemic.
After his Friday news conference melt down, he now fears questions from the patriotic press - domestic and international. They do not ask the right questions. It does not praise him. Worse, he cannot say "Your fired." That is probably really frustrating for his ego.
All masks are effective. Some more than others. Claims or denials say nothing useful without numbers. … Any mask is better than none.
Numbers can lie. They don't take into account human behavior. 98% is a statistical certainty, 95% a statistical probability regardless of human behavior. People may take excessive risks in other areas of infection control to their detriment with masks less than 95% effective.
Case in point: years ago,
lumbar support belts were recommended by OSHA for workers doing heavy lifting. Employers wanted them used to reduce employee down time and workmen's compensation claims. Insurance companies wanted them used to reduce payouts which they wouldn't give unless the support belts were being worn at time of injury. Governments wanted them used to demonstrate their concern for the health and welfare of their constituents.. The prevailing thought was that anything was better than nothing and OSHA went along with it.
In practical application, employees started doing heavy lifting that they wouldn't have previously done, without help, thinking that the support belts would protect them and give them more time to do their jobs rather than waiting for assistance. The number of injuries shot up dramatically and it became an industry crisis. Employers balked, insurance companies balked, and governments balked as injured employees sued anyone they could over the misrepresentation that they would be safer wearing support belts; because, anything was better than nothing. OSHA not only retracted their recommendation, they specifically recommended against it.
Using numbers without factoring in human behavior is a fool's game.
I hear the specific how-to to make lift belts most effective is to do exercises to strengthen the entire core. At least, quite a routine of planking both prone and supine -- grow abs.
Numbers can lie. They don't take into account human behavior. 98% is a statistical certainty, 95% a statistical probability regardless of human behavior. People may take excessive risks in other areas of infection control to their detriment with masks less than 95% effective.
Case in point: years ago, lumbar support belts were recommended by OSHA for workers doing heavy lifting. Employers wanted them used to reduce employee down time and workmen's compensation claims. Insurance companies wanted them used to reduce payouts which they wouldn't give unless the support belts were being worn at time of injury. Governments wanted them used to demonstrate their concern for the health and welfare of their constituents.. The prevailing thought was that anything was better than nothing and OSHA went along with it.
In practical application, employees started doing heavy lifting that they wouldn't have previously done, without help, thinking that the support belts would protect them and give them more time to do their jobs rather than waiting for assistance. The number of injuries shot up dramatically and it became an industry crisis. Employers balked, insurance companies balked, and governments balked as injured employees sued anyone they could over the misrepresentation that they would be safer wearing support belts; because, anything was better than nothing. OSHA not only retracted their recommendation, they specifically recommended against it.
Using numbers without factoring in human behavior is a fool's game.
Really good point.
From what I have read there really is not a medical consensus on whether large scale mask wearing in public would help against the spread of Covid-19. Its not a simple question. There is the potential for it to prove counter productive and end up increasing the wearer's chance of contracting it, even as it is reducing their likelihood of transmitting it.
And there are clear dangers in insisting everybody does so if it puts pressure on supplies for those we know for sure need them, like front line medical staff.
I don't see how a mask would increase your risk unless the mask picks up the virus and you mishandle it when you take it off at home. But then if the virus is on the mask you probably would have inhaled it without the mask anyway. I'm subscribing to the "can't hurt" school.
[post=1049660]Perhaps you missed this post.[/post]
I didn't miss it, I don't buy it. First of all he's taking about bandannas and cloth, not masks. But the droplets landing and evaporating so the virus will be sucked through is so far fetched it's ridiculous. I'd bet the odds of getting hit by lightning, hitting the lottery, and winning Publisher's clearinghouse all on the same day are better than that happening. If you are getting hit with droplets you're in a cloud of airborne virus also. Yes it can.
But the point is a mask may help, but won't hurt, and will prevent you from being shot or stoned by a mob.
Uh huh, uh huh, of course, of course.
Unless they shoot you to steal your mask.
Lie down on the couch and tell us about your childhood. Did you have a security blanket that you pulled up over your mouth and nose when you took a nap?
No I didn't but it wouldn't hurt, neither will a mask. I hate 'em, even the dust masks make breathing difficult, also because I have no clue what people are saying behind 'em. There's also the fact that if I contract this I'm dead.
I thought the idea of masks or scarves was that, unless they are the whatevr they call the proper masks that filter out the finer particles, the main reason for wearing one isnt to protect the wearer but to reduce the chances the wearer might inadvertently spread the virus if they happen to be presymptomatic or asymptomatic.
I wear them when I rob people.
Really good point.
He simply forgets that a person with N95 mask, worn improperly, is still much better protected than someone wearing a bandanna improperly. Even if worn incorrectly, a superior mask remains superior protection.
It is hard to not wear a mask improperly. It covers a mouth and nose. It fits on a face. Who, other than a 4 years old, cannot figure that out?
the main reason for wearing one isnt to protect the wearer but to reduce the chances the wearer might inadvertently spread the virus if they happen to be presymptomatic or asymptomatic.
Exactly. We do social distancing, masks, etc to protect the most 'at risk' people - the medical industry. They will die if too many are infected at any one time.
Eventually 60% to 70% of us must be infected to end this. If that takes many more months, then less doctors and nurses will die.
Currently somewhere between 5% and 15% of us have been infected. In NYC, that number may be 35%. Techniques (such as masks or bandanna) only reduce a number of infected people at any one time.
We wear masks to not infect others. It does much less to protect ourselves.
We wear masks to not infect others. It does much less to protect ourselves.
This is true, but in both cases it's better than not.
… It is hard to not wear a mask improperly. It covers a mouth and nose. It fits on a face. Who, other than a 4 years old, cannot figure that out? ...
[SIZE="3"]“Long thread ahead!” warned the doctor before explaining how face masks really work[/SIZE]
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The politics of a health crisis....
Trump claims he has the authority to block Fauci from testifying in front of a House committee but has no objection to Fauci's testimony in front of a Senate committee.
After the White House blocked Dr. Anthony Fauci, the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases and a member of the government's coronavirus task force, from testifying before House lawmakers next week, he will appear before the GOP-led Senate Committee on Health, Education Labor and Pensions on May 12, a spokesperson for for Sen. Lamar Alexander said in a statement.
"Chairman Alexander looks forward to hearing from Dr. Fauci and other administration officials at the Senate health committee’s second hearing back, which will be on Tuesday, May 12," the statement read.
Previously, White House spokesman Judd Deere had said in a statement to ABC News it would be "counter-productive" to the administration's COVID-19 response for Fauci and other top officials to appear before lawmakers to discuss the government's actions in relation to the pandemic.
His reasoning on this seems clear, to avoid having people he considers his political opponents ask questions of a knowledgeable witness to the government's actions in relation to the pandemic.
The explanation actually given for the double standard is transparently fallacious, that it would be "counter-productive" for Fauci to testify.
Nawwww, his reasoning is that THE HOUSE CAN"T HANDLE THE TRUTH (but the Senate can).
See, a simple explanation. Obviously the House needs four more years of Trump to toughen them up.
TALLAHASSEE, Fla. (CBS12) — As Florida starts to reopen, the architect and manager of Florida's COVID-19 dashboard, announced she'd been removed from her position, Florida Today reported.
Rebekah Jones said in an email to CBS12 News that her removal was "not voluntary" and that she was removed from her position because she was ordered to censor some data, but refused to "manually change data to drum up support for the plan to reopen."
Jones made the announcement May 5 in a farewell email to researchers and other members of the public who had signed up to receive updates on the data portal, according to Florida Today. She said that for "reasons beyond my division's control," her office is no longer managing the dashboard, involved in its publication, fixing errors or answering any questions.
https://cbs12.com/news/local/woman-who-designed-floridas-covid-19-dashboard-has-been-removed-from-her-position?fbclid=IwAR0_vzXJgyqSoLe0T7nNjsyFOBtJbAkZsu5UGlrYG_UTCEfUaL-AH7ThHVU TALLAHASSEE, Fla. (CBS12) — As Florida starts to reopen, the architect and manager of Florida's COVID-19 dashboard, announced she'd been removed from her position, Florida Today reported.
Rebekah Jones said in an email to CBS12 News that her removal was "not voluntary" and that she was removed from her position because she was ordered to censor some data, but refused to "manually change data to drum up support for the plan to reopen."
Jones made the announcement May 5 in a farewell email to researchers and other members of the public who had signed up to receive updates on the data portal, according to Florida Today. She said that for "reasons beyond my division's control," her office is no longer managing the dashboard, involved in its publication, fixing errors or answering any questions.
https://cbs12.com/news/local/woman-who-designed-floridas-covid-19-dashboard-has-been-removed-from-her-position?fbclid=IwAR0_vzXJgyqSoLe0T7nNjsyFOBtJbAkZsu5UGlrYG_UTCEfUaL-AH7ThHVU
This is all normal.
This is /our/ President, and leaders of other countries around the world.
[YOUTUBEWIDE]VYQvWuiXC8c[/YOUTUBEWIDE]
See if you can spot the difference.
Yeah.
It's not a good look.
Our chief Womble is a little less embarrassing, but it's a close call.
A raw look at my state government;
[YOUTUBE]3EG7yHb20dY[/YOUTUBE]
Just after I watched this I saw a picture my state rep at a meeting actually voting for what's might be a good piece of health legislation, the only one with her mask off.
Should be Attempted Murder, same as the charge in HIV-transmission cases.
Wow. That was something else.
I bet kidney donations go down after that.
So now masks are political/religious. Apparently Jesus is the only protection we need.
I was hoping folks would be sensible about the opening but now it's looking wide open.
So now masks are political/religious. Apparently Jesus is the only protection we need.
I was hoping folks would be sensible about the opening but now it's looking wide open.
During the Spanish Flu epidemic, people were attacked for wearing masks, for the exact same reasons.
It will happen now, too.
Also, yes, there's this public attitude that the worst is behind us. It's not accurate.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/snip--
Also, yes, there's this public attitude that the worst is behind us. It's not accurate.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/
Hey!Most of the numbers are hocus pocus when dealing with Schrodinger's virus.
Without testing nobody knows if they have it, or had it, so they don't know if they now have immunity.
I've also read a couple of Doctors say they aren't sure having it gives immunity, plus they don't know if getting sick is any more beneficial than being an asymptomatic carrier.
Seems to me if you've had it and are immune, you could still be a carrier. So do unto others before they do you.
I think the masks are more to prevent you from spreading it than protecting you from catching it until you get up into the very expensive models.
Our company guidelines are to wear our masks and have any adults in the home wear them as well. I had a new client refuse this week cuz Jesus, that made me realize along with the PA red v blue mask fight that we are so divided we can't even agree to try to help one another.
I also saw an anti-mask poster get banned from a Facebook group dedicated to safely opening small local businesses. He may have been a fake account,..
One wears a mask to protect the Constitutional rights of others.
From The Economist of 20 Jun 2020:
[quote}On March 12th .... Boris Johnson ... turned serious: families are going to lose loved ones before the time." But the restrictions he announced were light: those with symptoms were told to stay at home for a week; those older than 70 instructed to avoid cruise ships. Meanwhile, continental Europe was already beginning lock down. ...
... the government should have questioned the experts more closely. But it "was getting advice that it wanted to hear"[/quote]
Somehow that was a response to pandemic that was already all over the world? He acted serious. And mocked it with no actions. Somehow he only heard what he wanted to hear? When it that called responsible? It does sound like a 30 second attention span.
Someone with a business school attitude sees current 'spread sheet' numbers. They says everything will be OK. Numbers that matter were the infections today that would affect numbers weeks from now. But this is Boris Johnson who, like Trump, only sees the numbers he wanted to see.
Death rates were shooting up exponentially in Italy in early February. Exponentially in Spain in mid-February. Exponentially in France at the end of February. No problem. By ignoring what the professionals needed, Britain could only trace five Covid-19 infections a week in mid-February. And only had a few hundred tracers in March as things exponentially got bad. Therefore Boris Johnson again had the fact he wanted. Numbers said it was not really serious.
Johnson finally admitted that school must close in 23 March after he had contracted the disease. And still he refused to require people to wear masks until Mayor Sadiq Khan of London finally made a big stink about inaction on 14 April. People on British mass transient were not required to wear masks until 4 June. Johnson still does not require masks in shops. That is a responsible leader?
British government finally start expediting testing on 14 April by letting other professionals do testing. Testing suddenly increased from 1 in 5000 people to 1 in 1000 on 1 May. But again, too little too late.
Boris Johnson wanted to protect his economy - citizens be damned. Numbers are now in. Britain's GDP has suffered the worst downturn for all European countries. Which makes sense when one was listening to professionals. Britain has a worst decline at almost 12% followed by less downturns in France, Italy, and Spain. Germany, that took actions based in science, has only suffered a 7% downturn. Other nations that made decisions from facts also suffered much less economic harm include Portugal and Norway, Countries that suffered the most Covid-19 deaths, due to inaction, are now suffering the greatest economic downturns.
Grumbling is all across the Tory party. This Boris Johnson government has gone from incompetent decision to denial. Boris Johnson is now considered equal to Theresa May's competence. Boris Johnson's handling of Covid-19 had an approval rating of 70% in early March when things were clearly starting to get bad. Finally the people have realized reality. Approval has dropped to about 35%. Making his approval rating for this crisis the worst of any European nation.
It should continue to drop now that Johnson keeps promoting his "It is over" denials. They were not wearing masks until June? They still do not require masks in shops?
Amazing how people get their power by only insulting others; not be doing what is competent.
I heard that Trump "is all for masks". He loves them, it "makes him look like The Lone Ranger."
That's just fucking perfect, cover your brow and your cheekbones, leave your eyes, mouth and nose exposed. :facepalm:
Here is the PPE he really needs.
First though...
[COLOR="Red"]NOT SAFE FOR WORK[/COLOR]
[YOUTUBEWIDE]MzpdABiEbzY[/YOUTUBEWIDE]
I took my health survey for work today the list of states I can't have traveled to is getting longer...
We have a winner in the Presidential race (to see which coronavirus-denying head of state contracts COVID-19 first).
Brazilian president Jair Bolsonaro tests positive for coronavirus
The Brazilian president, Jair Bolsonaro, has announced live on television he has tested positive for coronavirus.
“It came back positive,” a mask-wearing Bolsonaro told a hand-picked group of reporters on Tuesday lunchtime outside his official residence.
“There’s no reason for fear. That’s life,” the president added. “Life goes on. I thank God for my life and the role I’ve been given to decide the future of this great nation that is called Brazil.”
Bolsonaro, 65, has repeatedly trivialized the pandemic and flouted social distancing, even as Brazil became the second-worst-hit country after the United States, with more than 65,000 deaths and 1.6m confirmed cases.
In March, as Covid-19 claimed its first victims in Brazil, the far-right populist used an address to the nation to brag that, if infected, he would quickly shake off the illness thanks to his “athlete’s background”.
Since then, Bolsonaro has continued to attend social events and political rallies, often wearing masks incorrectly, or not wearing them at all.
The virus is not "sneaky" or "evil" or sensate in any way. It's more like a relentless machine or a fire that continues to move in all directions at once, reproducing and consuming *people* when migrating onward. Bolsonaro is just the newest log on the fire.
Whoops.
I forgot about Boris Johnson.
Sorry.
I saw this message on the big reader board outside a coffee stand today.
I agree.
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Here are a couple more timely messages :
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One more
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I saw this message on the big reader board outside a coffee stand today.
I agree. ...
It's just the opposite. The people who want masks worn by everyone are wearing the wrong masks. If those people wear the right masks (e.g. N95); then, those who don't want to wear masks wouldn't have to. They wouldn't pose a hazard to the mask wearers who don't want to take that risk and the risk would be mutually acceptable among non-wearers. A no-brainer.
Other infection control measures that pro-mask people are supposed to be implementing routinely would negate the other ramifications of some people not wearing masks. That those who are pro-mask won't wear the right masks and are instead trying to force everyone to wear the wrong masks to take up the slack for their misfeasance is political.
I'm pro-mask and wear an N95 plus practice other standard infection control techniques; so, I couldn't care less if others are determined to not wear masks. Live and let die.
People not wearing a mask can be contaminating surfaces that transfer [strike] viri virusi virusers [/strike] viruses to you and your clothing.
Now you get in your car then rip off that damn mask and breath easier.
But while you drive those little bastards are being swept off your clothing into your air supply.
People wearing a mask that isn't an N95 can be contaminating surfaces that transfer viruses to you and your clothing. Those little bastards are being swept through their mask and off of it into your air supply and you can't do anything about it. You don't seem to be too concerned about that.
Yet, even though when you get in your car and rip off that damn mask to breath easier you can put it in a plastic bag, which is what you should be doing anyway in case you're already a carrier, you whine about it.
Explain yourself [strike]lady[/strike] laddy. :eyebrow:
What we do not need is my mask is better than your mask neener neener neener. :eyebrow:
You know how people carry plastic bags with which to pick up their dog's shit from other people's lawns, just remove your facemask the same way and you'll be fine.
I don't pick up dog shit, I'll just hand the mask on the shifter for next time
So sorry to hear that you don't have a glove compartment you can repurpose as a mask compartment.
I put my masks inside up on the dash of my vehicle so it gets baked by the sun. So Neener, Neener, Neener!
Britain's GDP has suffered the worst downturn for all European countries. Which makes sense when one was listening to professionals. Britain has a worst decline at almost 12% followed by less downturns in France, Italy, and Spain. Germany, that took actions based in science, has only suffered a 7% downturn. Other nations that made decisions from facts also suffered much less economic harm include Portugal and Norway, Countries that suffered the most Covid-19 deaths, due to inaction, are now suffering the greatest economic downturns.
Trump repeatedly denied Covid-19. Did everything he could to avoid a shutdown (necessary to stop Covid-19 spreading). Obstructed even testing. Encouraged Americans to spread the virus by not wearing masks. Since he only wants to be reelected - and has a 30 second attention span.
Results of his lying arrived today in economic data. American economy has never suffered a worse economic downturn - ever. A -9.5% GDP downturn this quarter (April to June). Even after May and June saw a strong upturn. An annual rate of -32.9%. Three times larger than any other American economic downturn. A downturn that appears in most every economic sector - also unpresidented. A number that is expected to become worse in a third quarter as a second wave of this Trump virus gets worse.
Economies that do shutdown, to stop a spreading virus, suffer least economic harm. But that is too hard for someone whose attention span is only 30 seconds, is openly supported by people who only want to 'wreck shit', and whose only purpose in life is to advance himself at the expense of all others (also called a narcissistic personality disorder).
From the NY Times: [quote}The collapse was unprecedented in its speed and breathtaking in its severity. The only possible comparisons in modern American history came during the Great Depression and the demobilization after World War II, both of which occurred before the advent of modern economic statistics. ...
It was the 19th straight week that the tally exceeded one million, an unheard-of figure before the coronavirus pandemic. And it was the second weekly increase in a row after nearly four months of declines, a sign of how the rebound in cases has undercut the economy’s nascent recovery. Claims for the previous week totaled 1.42 million. ...
What’s more, fears are growing that after rebounding strongly in May and June, the economy has run out of steam, with many states reversing the reopening of businesses.[/quote]
Nations that address the problem up front when it was obvious (January, February, March) do not have such massive economic damage and job losses.
Early science suggest it will still be problem into August.
That number then was shocking and widely denied. Today, consider a problem continuing until January 2021.
Trump will do anything to promote himself. He now want to suspend November elections using the excuse that election fraud is now widespread. Lying. Calling it
With Universal Mail-In Voting (not Absentee Voting, which is good), 2020 will be the most INACCURATE & FRAUDULENT Election in history. It will be a great embarrassment to the USA. Delay the Election until people can properly, securely and safely vote???.
Yeah, he really said/tweeted that. Of course, true to form, he's backing away from it in response to the strong negative public reaction.
This is his paralipsis in action.
"I'm not saying, I'm just saying." Having his cake and eating it too.
Fine, eat your cake, IDGAF. SPOILER :The cake is a lie. But why do you get mad when we take seriously the things you say? It's ok, we know why you get mad. In six months you will return to your own cacophonous bubble of irrelevance.
I heard they're going to get rid of the penny and the nickel and put Trump on a new three dollar bill!
Narcissistic personality disorder attached to a 30 second attention span. 40% of America worships that type person.
Catfight!
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This could be dangerous. They may each be on the last of their nine lives.
Dr. Deborah Birx on Sunday strongly defended her record amid criticism from House Speaker Nancy Pelosi that she doesn't have confidence in the White House coronavirus task force coordinator's handling of the pandemic.
... "I have never been called pollyannish, or nonscientific, or non-data driven," Birx said. "And I will stake my 40-year career on those fundamental principles of utilizing data to really implement better programs to save more lives."
But Pelosi doubled down Sunday morning on a comment she reportedly made behind closed doors on Thursday night accusing Birx of spreading disinformation about the coronavirus pandemic.
Politico reported Pelosi told White House chief of staff Mark Meadows and Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin that Birx was the "worst" and that they were in "horrible hands" with her. ...
... In 2014, President Barack Obama nominated Birx to her role at the US State Department as an ambassador-at-large and coordinator of the US Government Activities to Combat HIV/AIDS and US Special Representative for Global Health Diplomacy.
She served as the head of US Military HIV Research Program in the 90s -- a role in which she oversaw the Thai vaccine trial, the first HIV vaccine to show preventative results -- and later became director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention's Division of Global HIV/AIDS in 2005.
It doesn't matter how good or bad she is, she's not calling the shots.
Pelosi doesn't like her because she's bi-.
Pelosi doesn't like her because she's bi-.
snip--
Now speak for her some more about what she believes and we'll see just how well people who live in glass houses do throwing stones.
double standards much?
Bi-partisan, works for Presidents of either party.
Pelosi is a public figure, not a dwellar. Apples and oranges.
"You stupid." - Eric Von Zipper awardee.
What is Birx the president of? One of your secret societies? You guys have a secret handshake? One of those cool low-contrast velcro backed patches?
whatever, troll. you're still on my ignore list. you're gonna have to raise your voice #capslock to break through again. s'ok, you can have the last word. you're boring anyhow.
Bi-partisan, works for Presidents of either party. ...
What is Birx the president of?...
Reading comprehension BigVino.
When you have arguments from data, argument from authority won't cut it.
When you have arguments from data, argument from authority won't cut it.
Ok
Sounds about right. What part of the thread are you talking about?
This looks like a job for The Doctor, with assistance from Bicycle Repairman, and they may even have to recall Harry and Meghan to Royal duty. Social media news can be a formidable foe:
[SIZE="3"]Just 30% of Brits say they would definitely get a coronavirus vaccine, with scientists blaming anti-vaxxer conspiracy theories and mistrust in government[/SIZE]
... Less than a third of British people say they would definitely get a coronavirus vaccine, with scientists warning that the UK government and social media companies must fight misinformation for a vaccine to be widely accepted.
New research by pollsters Ipsos Mori and Kings College London university found that 30% of people in the UK said they were certain to get a vaccine for COVID-19 if it became available.
23% said they were very likely and 20% said they were fairly likely.
However, 16% of respondents said they were either unlikely to get a vaccine or definitely wouldn't. ...
... Scientists behind the research said there was a clear link between opposition to a vaccine and social media as a source of news. 27% of respondents who said they got their news from Whatsapp said they would be unlikely to get the virus. ...
... While one in six in the UK say they are unlikely to, or definitely won't, get a potential vaccine, this rises to around a third or more among certain groups, with a clear link to belief in conspiracy theories and mistrust of government, authority and science. ...
What we do not need is my mask is better than your mask neener neener neener. :eyebrow:
Many masks are augmentable. Customizable in about five minutes.
My podiatrist (yes, this is quite anecdotal and not on the internet until I put it there) showed me a technique to augment many kinds of masks: add two to four layers of new, straight off the roll, paper towel. The idea is that any droplets you exhale have to negotiate three to five layers of barrier to go anywhere, and any droplets out in the ambient have to thread through the same barriers to get at you -- and the trick does not make the mask breathe any worse, especially the blue-paper disposable surgical masks.
Being a doc, my podiatrist uses a more rigid protocol; he starts the day on about five layers of towel stapled with a couple of staples to the top edge of the mask, the towel layers of course being on the inside of the mask. A little shaping with scissors keeps the paper towel pieces neat and convenient. About every patient, or about every hour, he discards the innermost towel layer, and now his mask is nice and fresh.
Some styles of two-layer cloth masks have open sides through which paper towel might be folded widthwise and inserted from one side or the other, without recourse to stapling.
Ok
Sounds about right. What part of the thread are you talking about?
Oh, this sort of thing: "On my authority as Speaker, Donald Trump is NOT ALLOWED a win, even in medicine, even if he took a medicine prophylactically, especially since it's with apparent success." Puh-leeeze. Let's have signs of intelligent life in the House; is that somehow too much to ask? I'm tired of the bigotry there.
Many masks are augmentable. Customizable in about five minutes.
My podiatrist (yes, this is quite anecdotal and not on the internet until I put it there) showed me a technique to augment many kinds of masks: add two to four layers of new, straight off the roll, paper towel. The idea is that any droplets you exhale have to negotiate three to five layers of barrier to go anywhere, and any droplets out in the ambient have to thread through the same barriers to get at you -- and the trick does not make the mask breathe any worse, especially the blue-paper disposable surgical masks.
Being a doc, my podiatrist uses a more rigid protocol; he starts the day on about five layers of towel stapled with a couple of staples to the top edge of the mask, the towel layers of course being on the inside of the mask. A little shaping with scissors keeps the paper towel pieces neat and convenient. About every patient, or about every hour, he discards the innermost towel layer, and now his mask is nice and fresh.
Some styles of two-layer cloth masks have open sides through which paper towel might be folded widthwise and inserted from one side or the other, without recourse to stapling.
This is interesting. Anybody see a downside?
Oh, this sort of thing: "On my authority as Speaker, Donald Trump is NOT ALLOWED a win, even in medicine, even if he took a medicine prophylactically, especially since it's with apparent success." Puh-leeeze. Let's have signs of intelligent life in the House; is that somehow too much to ask? I'm tired of the bigotry there.
cite please.
This is interesting. Anybody see a downside?
Yes. If the paper towel is closest to your mouth, you can breathe in paper towel fibers. You don’t want that in your lungs. Paper towels are not lint free. However, if you have a two layer fabric mask, paper towels are excellent additional filtration material sandwiched between the two layers and I have done this myself. I tried a coffee filter first, but it was too difficult to breathe through. The cloth captures any paper towel lint/fibers.
We know wood dust from woodworking is terrible for your lungs. Paper towel fibers are also bad.
Those blue shop paper towels are a lot better.
So it could improve my pocketed mask, that's something.
I have two filthy homes on my caseload. I've been using disposable masks in those places and tossing them immediately as they smell like those places when I leave...
cite please.
Well -- is it some conspiracy? -- or is it a culture, and a norm for said culture? Who needs a conspiracy when he has a culture? Are any of those candidates actually stating a reason to vote for them, and their programs? I can't hear them.
Mark Levin has made considerable public comment on the Democrats' prejudiced behavior toward Donald John Trump. It is strictly prejudiced to conduct an impeachment where it's "impeachment first, offense later" -- a miscarriage of injustice. Justice, as a rule, runs the other way, offense first, and winning an election against the Mistress of Corruption is no actionable offense. Credit for frequent competent action is refused -- the Democrats are treating Trump the way they treated niggers, what with the lynchings and other fun times -- Democrat show all the way. They *do* seem to have trouble getting Trump throttled.
Two television networks are establishing a reputation for aiding and abetting the Democrats' anti-libertarian campaign. Antilibertarian campaigning is toxic, antieconomic, and slavemongering.
You know, I didn't vote for Trump
the first time. Then he started implementing all these libertarian-style policies. Here comes the second.
He heard it on Fox News. It must be true.
So you can't cite.
Sorry, but Mark Levin's
oeuvre is a cite, and it's comprehensive -- as you might know, once you can be arsed to start reading Levin's works. You do need to be prepared to leave the anti-American club treehouse, though. Such preparation is not difficult.
With Levin, Ben Shapiro. Somebody else you manifestly do not know.
I keep discovering all these people with training in law, who then started writing. And law school wasn't their only credential.
"Democrats won't let you work, but they'll let you riot . . ."
"Democrats won't let you work, but they'll let you riot . . ."
Republicans destroyed jobs, terminated what was a balanced budget, and created a massive downturn between 2000 and 2008. A recession that was terminated by what Democrats (and some moderate - therefore patriot Republicans) did in 2008 through 2018. By that point, the extremist Republican president had done so much economic harm that another recession was started. Forcing the Fed to lower interest rates multiple times - by even calling an emergency Fed meeting.
So who is creating jobs and who destroys jobs by enriching the rich with tax cuts and even bigger debts? Oh. That reality contradicts what Fox News orders us to believe. So we ignore it and deny it.
No mere superstition, that: "With this hallucination I thee wed, dearest Falsehood."
In California, we are now blessed with a color coded four-tier system superseding the California county watch list. Generated by one-party Sacramento and the Democrat Governor.
We are being held back. California's economy still isn't firmly recovering. Veritable convoys of U-Hauls are seen on the highways, heading out of state, to some location not run by Democrats.
House GOP leader says he trusts Trump over CDC director on vaccine timing
House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy (R-Calif.) said he trusts President Trump's comments on a timeline for the release of a coronavirus vaccine over Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) Director Robert Redfield.
"We're going to have a safe and effective vaccine this year, and listen to the preparation of what we've been able to do with Operation Warp Speed, to be able to deliver it. When that time comes, if I just take the words of the CDC and the president, the president's right," McCarthy said during a press briefing on Thursday.
"I think one of those two individuals had more information than the other, and that was the president," he added.
Trump at a Wednesday evening press briefing said Redfield was incorrect when he said a vaccine for COVID-19 would likely not be available until "the second or third quarter of 2021," remarks the CDC director made in testimony to Congress.
Redfield's estimate tracks with the outlines provided by other health experts, but Trump said a vaccine could be widely available by this fall. Democratic nominee Joe Biden on Wednesday said Trump lacked credibility in terms of the timing of a vaccine because Trump appears to want one out speedily to help with his reelection. The Trump campaign has criticized Biden for fearmongering.
McCarthy said that after speaking with other experts including Dr. Moncef Slaoui, the chief scientific adviser to the Trump administration's vaccine development program, and pharmaceutical companies developing COVID-19 vaccines, he believes Trump's timeline is more accurate.
He told reporters that Redfield likely "needs to be updated" on the latest information.
Trump was recently quoted saying "You've really drunk the Kool Aid, haven't you?" in a different context, but it sure looks like there's PLENTY of Kool Aid to go around.
:facepalm:
Trump's right it will be ready this year...
it just won't be tested properly, and probably not at all.
But after the first few million people we'll know if it works and if it's safe.
Wait a minute, Dr. Moncef Slaoui heading Trumps brain trust?
That sounds like an immigrant's name, but no, Trump hates them.
Hmm, "Moroccan-born Belgian-American", I wonder if Trump knows? :rolleyes:
Testing is ongoing and has a fixed schedule based on science and rules that can't be circumvented
don't go antivax to own dear leader, blood will be on your hands
Dear Leader has already touted unproven and in fact dangerous injections so Dear Leader is not to be trusted. We'll have a vaccine when the scientist-doctors and the CDC/WHO say we have a vaccine.
then don't claim "it just won't be tested properly or not at all"
His implication was if it is ready before the end of 2020 (as Trump has claimed it will be) then by definition it won't have been properly tested, according to the rules you claim can't be circumvented (though in actuality they can, it just takes one willing and/or blackmailed pharmaceutical CEO.)
You can believe Trump is talking out of his ass and it won't be released this year, and maybe you're right, but the testing protocols you believe in dictate that a properly-tested vaccine can't be released this year.
Clodfobble, you're precisely correct. Thank you for the concise clarification.
(though in actuality they can, it just takes one willing and/or blackmailed pharmaceutical CEO.)
really? conspiracy theory before the fact?
You can believe Trump is talking out of his ass and it won't be released this year, and maybe you're right, but the testing protocols you believe in dictate that a properly-tested vaccine can't be released this year.
NY Times COVID vaccine tracker
40 vaccines are in human clinical trials. Nine are in Phase 3. (Three of those are Chinese companies, so we might rule them out? But they are being tested in other countries. All three Chinese vaccines are approved for limited human use.)
Three vaccines not from Chinese companies are nearly ready. They won't be widely
available by the end of 2020 because manufacturing, but one or two may well be released. Pfizer figures their studies will be complete next month.
Testing is ongoing and has a fixed schedule based on science and rules that can't be circumvented
don't go antivax to own dear leader, blood will be on your hands
Trump already has blood on his hands.
His blithe disregard for science, rules, really anything that doesn't appear to immediately advance his own interests led him to avoid making choices and taking actions that would have saved many thousands of lives. His most used and most effective tool is his mouth. Both the power of the bully pulpit and his native, epic talent for talking and talking and talking. He used that tool, his words, to ill effect, repeatedly and vigorously, flying in the face of science, flouting rules, and basically talking shit (so much shit) and people died as a result.
Trump's main effort is to control the narrative. He wants those who hear him to believe him, and consider no other sources of information. This crisis has been his kryptonite because the virus is immune to his talk. It can't be intimidated or shouted down or gaslighted. This put Trump at an unexpected and serious disadvantage. His super tool was and is ineffective.
Remember when he gave instructions that hospitals around the country were to stop sending their epidemiological information to the CDC and were told to send it to the white house office instead? Remember when his political appointee was asserting editorial control over the "scientific" reports from the CDC? These are the efforts to control the narrative, irrespective of the facts.
This is the naked politicization of the health crisis.
He tried and failed to spin it away. Trump's hands are covered with blood.
So (needle pulling thread), he did a good job of thinning the herd when there weren't enough resources to go around. Some Presidents send people off to war while others let nature take its toll. Presidents get paid to do that balancing act. I've never been a fan of the war option: it takes away the young and able. Letting the old and weak fall by the wayside, knowing that you can't make all of the people happy all of the time, would seem to be in the best interest of future generations. Those who make it so are our unsung heroes.
[COLOR="White"]Bwahahaha![/COLOR]
NY Times COVID vaccine tracker
40 vaccines are in human clinical trials. Nine are in Phase 3. (Three of those are Chinese companies, so we might rule them out? But they are being tested in other countries. All three Chinese vaccines are approved for limited human use.)
Three vaccines not from Chinese companies are nearly ready. They won't be widely available by the end of 2020 because manufacturing, but one or two may well be released. Pfizer figures their studies will be complete next month.
Pfizer can claim their Phase III testing is "complete" and submit for approval whenever they want. And the FDA can decide to approve it for release if they want. But historically, Phase III has always been expected by the FDA to take a bare minimum of
1 year. Those are the rules that supposedly can't be circumvented, but if a vaccine passes out of Phase III in less than 1 year, then they have indeed been circumvented.
But of course, domestic Kobayashi Maru goes hand-in-hand with Cowboy Diplomacy. It's a given.
But historically, Phase III has always been expected by the FDA to take a bare minimum of 1 year.
one year is not "the rule" it's a guideline for vaccine development when not in a pandemic. the CDC link suggests 300-3000 participants, which you might expect if you don't have so many possible positive results because the studies are not done during a pandemic. but right now we do have plenty of data points. current phase 3 studies include 30,000 participants and more
More volunteers helps measure effectiveness more quickly, but the length of time itself is a critical function of the safety testing, just like 9 women can't make a baby in one month. If, say, a drug causes cancer, you won't know that in 3 months, no matter how many people take it. And it can certainly be argued that cutting corners is worth it, given that COVID is already killing people right now. But it can't be argued that corners weren't cut if the standard length of time for safety testing is shortened.
The standard length of time for testing isn't a lifetime; so, corners are already being cut. You can argue the probability of safety may change; but, not that corners weren't already being cut and now it's just a matter of degree. Look at all the approved drugs that were subsequently taken off the market.
If, say, a drug causes cancer, you won't know that in 3 months, no matter how many people take it.
nor in a year. thread's yours.
The standard length of time for testing isn't a lifetime; so, corners are already being cut.
nor in a year.
Fair enough. Everyone has to balance their own risk, for sure.
one year is not "the rule" it's a guideline for vaccine development when not in a pandemic. the CDC link suggests 300-3000 participants, which you might expect if you don't have so many possible positive results because the studies are not done during a pandemic. but right now we do have plenty of data points. current phase 3 studies include 30,000 participants and more
But Trump has castrated the CDC with all information and direction coming from Washington.
The FDA has the power of approval...
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And the FDA says this is what you should do but it's nonbinding.
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The wiggle room is explained in section VIII A & B. Right, section 8. :right:
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Translation - We told you the right way to do it.
But we like our jobs so when the word comes down we say, how high?
What does that have to do with the price of COVID-19 vaccine in China? :eyebrow:
What does that have to do with the price of COVID-19 vaccine in China?
Why does a price of tea in China have relevance?