Brexit
Great harm to the British economy was apparent when Elaine May went to India to promote new business connections. She returned empty handed. Because only the brainwashed in Britain think their economy will get better by finding trading partners elsewhere.
EU is properly putting the screws to dumb Brits who voted for Brexit. Friends inside so many companies currently based in Britain have plans or will be moving out of Britain once Brexit happens. Even Japanese car factories may have to close because the brainwashed were so easily manipulate by the emotional (liars).
Good for the EU. Screw the British people for voting for extremist rhetoric. The framework in a 500 page draft is apparently so ridiculous (unworkable) that neither side in Parliament can find anything good in it. We know massive job losses, especially in London and the Midlands will occur because of Brexit. The laughter at Elaine May's obvious stupid comments about an 'organized process' makes it obvious that she should be removed as Prime Minister. Since Brexit also created a weak and ineffective Prime Minister.
Brexit means a further decline of what once made Britain so strong.
Brits still have a few months to backtrack on this stupidity called Brexit. But they won't. For the same reason so many in America still respect The Don. Brainwashing, once implemented, means those cannot learn and correct their mistake.
It is good that Brits will suffer economically. They voted for it and deserve it. As with everything economic, things that affect economics become apparent only many years later. (America is still in an Obama economy.)
May's trip to India should have made obvious the stupidity of Brexit. Now and years later, the British people must and will be punished for their obstinate stupidity.
What a good lil propagandist you are.
Sensible folks 'get' and 'like' the idea of individual, regional, national sovereignty.
You 'get it' too, I reckon, but you don't 'like it', and that's why you're opposed: *communitarianism can't flourish if 'borders' exist. And a flourishing communitarianism is what you want.
Marx loves you, tw.
*to avoid page-generating misunderstanding: 'communitarianism' is an umbrella placeholder I apply to all anti-individual, anti-human philosophies. Communism, socialism, even Capitalism all fall under that umbrella, as well as any number of other **cog-generatin' ideas, systems, etc. My use of 'communitarianism' in this way falls outside the conventional defintion, hence this footnote.
**what you are if you embrace communitarianism(s) cuz, sure as hell, you ain't a self-owned, self-directing, person (an ***agent).
***as in 'agent causation', a distinct kind of 'libertarian' ****free will I believe in.
****to be clear: I don't 'have' free will; I 'am' a free will (just like the rest of you ['cept for tw, of course, cuz he's just a cog]).
Europe is pretty small from our perspective, none of the countries has all the resources to maintain a successful microcosm at today's standard. That's why they have all interacted since forever to trade their strengths, so everyone gets their needs met. Joining together to make trade easier helped them all, although it has brought some [strike]onerous[/strike] annoying regulations like lower beer standards to Germany.
The UK cutting off their nose to spite their face, makes no sense. One of the UK's big strengths was coal, but coal is fading fast. Another is banking but that will fade too, being an outsider looking in.
Making the UK great again is bullshit there too, just like it is here.
"Europe is pretty small from our perspective, none of the countries has all the resources to maintain a successful microcosm at today's standard. That's why they have all interacted since forever to trade their strengths, so everyone gets their needs met. Joining together to make trade easier helped them all, although it has brought some onerous annoying regulations like lower beer standards to Germany."
Yeah, but there's a difference between 'alliance' (of sovereigns) and 'union' (which is the dissolution of sovereignty).
I've yet to see a convincing argument for the an encompassing European Union when most of the benefits of such a thing coulda been had through narrow economic alliances, alliances which coulda preserved natiional autonomies.
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"The UK cutting off their nose to spite their face, makes no sense. One of the UK's big strengths was coal, but coal is fading fast. Another is banking but that will fade too, being an outsider looking in."
Mebbe so, but a significant number of Brits thought, mebbe still think, the benefits of blurring into 'union were/are outweighed by the cost to national autonomy.
Meh...I don't get a say, and neither do you...them folks are gonne do, or allow to be done to them, 'whatever'.
Many clearing houses must start executing for Brexit three months before the March exit. This made worse because so many Brexit supporting Brits cannot even accept the massive penalties and job losses they deserve for voting for Brexit. So companies have even more incentive to get out of Britain.
Some 30 institutions are planning a move to Frankfurt; moving almost $1 trillion in assets. HSBC will move to Paris. Bank of America and Barclays will move to Dublin. Many insurers and asset managers are moving to Luxembourg including (I have heard) Citibank. Amsterdam may get the London Stock Exchange Group and CBOE Global Markets.
These are only the many who must make the move before Brexit. A large number of other institutions must slowly move out over the next ten years.
From The Economist:
The problem ... they are so preoccupied by crisis management - getting the deal over the line if you are Ms May, engineering a general election if you are Mr Corbyn, or salvaging "true Brexit" if you are a Brexiteer - that they haven'y got any time to think about what actually caused the crisis. The greatest tragedy of Brexit is that it is consuming the solution to the problems that cause the volt to leave in the first place.
Even though we are about three months out from Brexit, my firm is now advising clients who want trademark protection in the UK to file joint trademark applications in the EU and the UK.
The current EU trademarks will be grandfathered in to the UK once it leaves the EU, but future trademarks must be filed in both locations if a company wants protection in both places. And since the process of having a trademark approved in the EU takes about 3 months, we're now at the time when a new trademark filed today will issue in the EU after Brexit, so that company would have no protection in the UK from an EU trademark. They would have to file all over again in the UK and wait for that process to be completed, delaying protection there by months or more.
I'm not sure how this will impact my firm. We have a London office that handles EU trademarks for us, and I suppose they will still offer that service as well as the less desirable UK trademark service, but will clients think to come to a law firm in London to file EU marks after London leaves the EU? We may see a decline in overall business. We also have an office in Brussels that could handle the EU trademark work, but all of our knowledgeable EU staff is in London.
Interesting times.
TW some of your quotes...
“only the brainwashed in Britain think their economy will get better by finding trading partners elsewhere.
EU is properly putting the screws to dumb Brits who voted for Brexit.
Good for the EU. Screw the British people for voting for extremist rhetoric.
It is good that Brits will suffer economically. They voted for it and deserve it”.
Are a bit over the top, I voted to leave, and I can assure you I have never been brainwashed in my life, I voted leave because the EU is becoming the united states of Europe by the back door and it's not what was signed up for.
I just wish the UK government grew a pair and told the EU to fuck off
when that deal was put on the table, I would have told them that they could sing for the 39 billion pay off plus I would have pulled the plug on all future developments that were previously agreed.
When Brussels realised they would have to find this money they would have changed their tune somewhat I think
Are a bit over the top, I voted to leave, and I can assure you I have never been brainwashed in my life,
A majority who smoked cigarettes to increase their health also denied they were brainwashed. Not one logical fact justifies your vote. That reasoning is classic and silly emotion.
A perfect example of brainwashing is demonstrated. Your economy will suffer. One must be a fool to not see the obvious. Even Donald Trump sees it (amazing).
The brainwashed routinely deny their brainwashing. Only way to deny that brainwashing is to provide hard facts. Some silly emotion about becoming the United States of Europe is only silly emotion; clearly not a fact.
Does being part of the EU mean increased costs. No. Exactly the reverse. But soundbytes always work on the most easily brainwashed.
Repeatedly listed are the many corporations and industries that must leave Britain or substantially reduce employment due to economic punishment such as tariffs. Even using different currencies further destroys jobs.
Brexit has no advantages. May even went to India to futilely promote new trade. As if that would make up for lost trade due to Brexit. She wasted her time for obvious reasons. She came back with nothing.
Brits are so screwed up as to not even admit that leaving the EU results in massive increased costs. EU has no reason to play nice. Britain deserves it because so many voters believed hype and soundbytes (lies) promoted by Boris Johnson and David Davis. They only wanted to wreck things; to achieve self serving political power. They had no plan beyond that Brexit vote. They were and remain incapable of thinking strategically.
As the Washington Post and large numbers of educated people note:
In fact, it has long been clear that the government of Theresa May must choose between losing privileged access to continental markets — on which both large manufacturing industries and the crucial London financial sector depend — and accepting continued E.U. regulation in some form.
After prolonged and damaging procrastination, caused by deep divisions in her Conservative Party, Ms. May finally bowed to reality last week. She presented her cabinet with a plan for a “soft” Brexit that would, among other things, accept E.U. rules for manufacturing and agriculture.
Why procrastination? You voted for emotions; with total disregard for economic realities. Johnson, et al can only procrastinate. They had no plan beyond economic destruction for personal gain. Anyone who can not see that today is denying reality.
This is already obvious. Britain will suffer economically due to Brexit. No reason (other than emotions) contradict that reality - from BeBop or anyone else. Plenty of reasons for that economic punishment are listed. Good. Maybe the less intelligent people will finally learn that soundbytes promote brainwashing.. Bebop's post also is only a soundbyte. Honesty always requires many paragraphs - that only adults who are adult can read without glazed over eyes.
Even drunk alcoholics claim they can quit drinking whenever they want. Another example of brainwashing. Brexit is only justified by emotions promoted by brainwashing. Not one honest reason has yet justified that vote. Same emotions are why no Brexit plan could be created after two years. Brexiters are getting destruction they were told to promote.
You are getting a disaster you wanted because you voted emotionally.
Great harm to the British economy was apparent when Elaine May went to India to promote new business connections. .
Theresa May.
You're brainwashed, it was
Elaine May.
She's still with us!
She was brought up on the Late Show last week. One of the guests was in a play with her.
Also, tw has helped us to understand a very good point.
If you want people to vote the way you want, insult the living shit out of them.
Don't bother with their concerns. Their concerns are dumb. You're the one who is smart! There's no need for convincing and trivial things like that. The dumb people should listen to their betters who truly understand things.
The biggest problem is when they listen to people on their side, the dumb side! Then they become brainwashed and the election doesn't go the way we like! At that point it is a compleat disaster and we have to double down on insulting them. We have to get the media involved to explain to them over and over why they are dumb.
Elaine May can help but without Mike Nichols she is a shadow of her former self.
She used to be a Berliner.
30 years from now, everyone will be talking about what courageous people of vision the Brexiteers were; but, the old naysayers now don't care because they won't be around anymore for anyone to say I told you so.
Brexit is already in trouble. The bad parts have not yet started.
Brexit supporters will remain in denial even as things degrade over the next tens years.
No one has yet posted one fact that justifies Brexit. That reality is somehow insulting to Brexit supporters - who only voted their emotions.
There is some pathetic prime minister called May. Even her fist name will be forgettable. History will record her unremarkable tenure.
Winners don't have to provide justifications, it's the losers' responsibility to justify why they shouldn't have lost.
Rationalizations of losers are worthless if they can't appease the winners.
This isn't about who did or did not win - it's more a question of what did they win?
I.m not a brexiter - I voted remain. And my preference if we are to exit, is that we do it in a staged and controlled fashion that doesn't cripple our economy - but ... with hindsight, given that that was never going to be acceptable to the stronger brexiteers, we'd have been better off going for a clean break from the start and planning for that.
As it what we are currently looking at is something nobody is happy with. I would favour a new referendum. There are enough people who voted brexit in expectation of something very different (both sides lied constantly during the campaign, and most Brrits, myself included, are woefully uninformed about Europe and our relationship with it) to warrant a new vote.
If I order an expensive piece of kit off the internet and when it arrives it is a pile of shit, I can send it back and get a refund.
For a lot of people who voted to leave they have just received a steaming turd through the post instead of their spanking new piece of democratic freedom.
The first referendum we voted on whether we wanted to leave europe - it was a fairly amorphous proposition and barely anybody knew what that would actually mean. We voted on principle. Now I think we should get the chances to vote on details and facts.
We also used a very bizarre voting system. Almost any important decision that might change the way an institution, party or country will organise itself - the structural decisions, not just who occupies the seats - require a two third or 60% majority. We ran a constitutional vote like a party political vote and got a result much like those we get in our first past the post parliamentary elections: victory with slightly over half the vote. Almost a split own the middle between those supporting the winning proposition and those supporting the losing proposition.
To change the structure of the nation shouold require more than being able to mobilise a handful more people than the other side - it should require a groundswell of popular support.
If it is genuinely the will of the people - a majority of the people - that we leave, then a new referendum will confirm that.
This isn't about who did or did not win - it's more a question of what did they win? …
That's what the losers always say.
… If it is genuinely the will of the people - a majority of the people - that we leave, then a new referendum will confirm that.
That's what the losers always say.
We don't like it, let's have a do-over.
If you had been the winner, would you give the losers a do-over now
⸮
They could come up with a laundry list of reasons (EU grievances) too.
Actually, had the vote gone our way by the same margin it went their way, they'd have a very good case for a revote in my opinion. I said right from the get go, back when everybody was predicting a remain victory that a referendum with simple majority was a stupid way to decide the fate of the nation and would end up leaving half the country upset and feeling let down, regardless of who wins - I have the same problem with first past the post parliamentary elections too - and have had through left and right victories and defeats.
Unfortunately, we can't have a reasoned debate about Europe in this country. Haven't been able to for decades. Political debate ping pongs between pro-europe and anti-europe propaganda. I think the majority of people in this country who voted in that referendum did so in almost complete ignorance of what they were actually choosing - and I absolutely include myself in that.
I've learned more about Europe and its political and legal structures, how that interacts with our and potential ramifications of this or that trading relationship in the last 2 years than in the 20 years leading up the vote.
I'd like a vote now while we all actually have some kind of a clue about how this shit works. I'd probably still vote to remain, but at least I'd know why I was voting that way.
The biggest search terms on google.co.uk after the brexit vote nwere all variations on 'what is the European union?'.
I actually think if we have another vote it might just go more comprehensively Brexit - if that happened, at the very least the government would have a very strong mandate for it - that would increase confidence at the very least.
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Right on point as per
Here's what I would like to happen in order of preference:
1. A second referendum; or
2. a complete withdrawal from Europe that allows us to participate in international trade deals without having to compromise them to remain in an economic trading system over which we have lost any and all say - indefinitely.
They had two years to come up with a plan - and they fucked it up. They started this shit with the original referendum - a promise made for political expediency during a fight for dominance in one political party. They sent us down this road and they have spent two years fighting among themselves and trying to get a compromise between two diametrically opposed viewpoints.
We would have been better off spending the last two years planning for a complete exit - 2 years of uncertainty has not been good for the economy, it has not provided businesses with any kind of confidence. Now our choice is to crash out with minimal planning and wholly insufficient contingencies in place or revisit the question of whether we want to leave Europe. It is fucking ludicrous that they dont have a plan after 2 fucking years.
We could actually have made Brexit work for us - maybe we'd be less of a force in the world, but that's ok - we're not a fucking empire anymore. It wasn't my preference - I was dead against it but if we'd have just bitten the bullet when the vote was done and got on with planning the break away we could have made it work for us. Instead we got a pointless election that destroyed the credibility of the leader just as we needed some fucking confidence and direction and the whole affair has been limping round in circles ever since - with the leave date getting closer and nobody able to plan anything because nobody knows what the fuck brexit is going to look like.
...
If I order an expensive piece of kit off the internet and when it arrives it is a pile of shit, I can send it back and get a refund.
For a lot of people who voted to leave they have just received a steaming turd through the post instead of their spanking new piece of democratic freedom.
The first referendum we voted on whether we wanted to leave europe - it was a fairly amorphous proposition and barely anybody knew what that would actually mean. We voted on principle. Now I think we should get the chances to vote on details and facts...
This, basically. With the Scottish independence referendum the pro-independence lobby were instructed to produce a detailed document explaining the options for handling currency issues, international relations, defence, taxation and public spending etc. Etc. Whether you agreed or not, the information was there (here actually, all 670 pages of it:
https://www2.gov.scot/resource/0043/00439021.pdf) to weigh up.
When I got the voting card for the Brexit referendum I was dumbfounded. Where was all that information that the promoters of change had to produce? All there was to go on was a slogan on the side of a bus. Fucking ridiculous. So at the very least a referendum on an **informed choice** should be granted us.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
… I've learned more about Europe and its political and legal structures, how that interacts with our and potential ramifications of this or that trading relationship in the last 2 years than in the 20 years leading up the vote. ...
Just think how much more you'll have learned in another 2 years!
… I'd like a vote now while we all actually have some kind of a clue about how this shit works.
Of course you would. You know there'll be an attrition factor when people are faced with the process of actual change...any change.
… I actually think if we have another vote it might just go more comprehensively Brexit ...
Do you really think anyone will swallow that line
⸮ But, but, if we have a do-over now, you might be even bigger winners!
You're a nice lady; so, a compromise is in order: After Brexit has been accomplished, have a referendum on whether or not to join the EU. That way, people will be better educated and everyone (not just the old fogies) will have actually experienced life outside the EU which is so crucial to making an informed decision what with all the propaganda that goes on there.
Until then, suck it up and enjoy the amusement that people making uninformed decisions provides. The rest of the world is.
That is games playing. This isn't a game.
I'm not laughing at the people making uninformed choices - I was one of them, we all were.
I'm not even 100% sure I'd vote to remain again if we had another vote - the last 2 years have fundamentally damaged our relationships with European partners - if we were to change our minds and vote to remain we'd be in Europe as a much weakened member - possibly catastrophically weakened.
I would however like to know if we were leaving that we were doing so with some kind of plan in mind.
I would however like to know if we were leaving that we were doing so with some kind of plan in mind.
There never was a plan in mind. Boris Johnson, et al were promoting Brexit for the same reason another here says he only wants to wreck it all.
Anyone can see why Brexit can only be bad. For example, a first tier nation must make high tech products. Parts for cars cross borders tens or 100 times before finally being assembled inside an automobile. Cross state, provence, and nation borders is constant and necessary to build anything technically advanced. It happens in that region because trade is open and unrestricted across all those borders. Innovation and highwage jobs can never happen today with border restrictions.
That is what Brexit want to restore. Border restrictions. Strifled innovations.
How many borders do parts only in a light bulb cross? Maybe 30 or more - just for a light bulb.
Also essential for a productive economy is free motion of labor. I cannot think of a single place I worked where less than 50% were only from that one state. Most everyone comes from elsewhere - over the years and sometimes daily. Because that also is essential to have a product economy.
Brexit only want to restrict all that. Brexit will clearly make Britain less productive. But most people have no idea what is essential to make a nation productive.
One thing I love on the streets of London is the vibracny created by Schengen. That too will go away because so many have no idea what makes an economy productive and innovative.
Well over 100 years ago, a major innovation happened that can only occur where state borders are open. Sear created the catalog. The world never saw anything like it. The world's biggest Post Office was in Chicago to only serve customers of Sears catalog. That was the internet of its time. And could not happen in Europe where borders restricted such innovation, productivity, and job creation. EU is essential for any productive nation in that region. It should be that obvious to anyone with minimal economic education.
Strifled.
For all your knowledge of how to run a country, you should run for something.
Preferably away.
innovations.
One thing I love on the streets of London is the vibracny created by Schengen. That too will go away because so many have no idea what makes an economy productive and innovative.
.
Sorry got to disagree here - London has always had that vibrancy and probably always will. It's been a world city pretty much since world cities became a thing.
I disagree too. The UK has never been part of Schengen.
Oh yeah - and there's that lol
I probably should have led with that amirite?
How many borders do parts only in a light bulb cross? Maybe 30 or more - just for a light bulb.
Well that must be why Dutch company Philips makes all its light bulbs in...
...wait for it...
London.
Oh! But by that I mean... surprise...
London, Ontario.
Canada
Who in turn is not an EU member, so.
British manufacturing will be crushed by this blow though. Whatever is left of it already. Can any Brits tell us what was left of it
before the EU?
(I kid, I kid! I used to work for a British video equipment manufacturer... and I currently work for Britain's 15th largest company)
Is this an xkcd-level post where I have to know a lot about a niche thing in order to get the joke?
R Squared DR or.. RDRR!
For fuck's sake.
two fucking years they've had. Two fucking years and they've concluded this is complicated.
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and they've concluded this is complicated.
'Nobody knew health care could be so complicated'
We seem to be in a race for which of our nations is going to face total constitutional crisis first.
Right now i think we are in the lead
"Brexit is already in trouble."
Of course it is. The Powers that Be didn't want it, don't want it, will complexify it and drag it out right up to the exit date, and what Britain will be stuck with is a faux exit (where the Brits lose power in the EU but remain bound up in obligations to the EU).
Blame The Powers that Be, not the principle.
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"No one has yet posted one fact that justifies Brexit."
Principles (like individual and national sovereignty) don't count, I guess.
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"we'd have been better off going for a clean break from the start and planning for that."
Yes. 40 years of interconnection was never gonna be done away with easily or painlessly, but it coulda been cleanly (still could, but probably won't).
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"They had two years to come up with a plan - and they fucked it up"
Yep, cuz -- again -- 'The Powers that Be didn't want it, don't want it, will complexify it and drag it out right up to the exit date'. They fucked it up, are fucking it up, on purpose.
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''Nobody knew health care could be so complicated.'
It's not. Another example of 'leaders' complexifyin' shit to get what they want (and to hell with what you want [or need]).
If the United Kingdom could sing to the European Union, the song might go something like this:
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[ATTACH]65797[/ATTACH]
[YOUTUBE]Tjp5OmoDYQM[/YOUTUBE]
London has always had that vibrancy and probably always will. It's been a world city pretty much since world cities became a thing.
Brexit is about making those hundreds of thousand or million EU citizens into foreigner - who must get visas or leave. London, that is so vibrant because it is compopolitian, is one reason why the midland extremists voted for Brexit. They see want makes London so vibrant as people stealing their jobs. Hate always works on the lesser informed.
Many Americans are just a brainwash by similar right wing wacko extremisms. For example, they also do not understand that 50% of America's Fortune 500 were created by immigrants. That 40% of all new businesses are created by this tiny minority - immigrants. And that an overwhelming majority of American Nobel prized came from immigrants - many who had almost no education when they got here.
Brexit includes a hate for Schengen. But that is why London is so vibrant. And is why so many Brits, manipulated by hate and soundbytes, hate Brexit.
Every foreigner I know who work in Britain will be leaving. London will be less vibrant.
I assumed the mass exodus would be to Frankfurt. And am surprised at the so many cities that everyone must move to - because the least educated believe lies from Boris Johnson.
At this point, every UK citizen with minimal knowledge now knows that Johnson, et al had no plan. They only understood more political power (only personal gain) by doing what Trump also does.
Schengen was not necessary for London to be vibrant before EU. And EU with Schengen and Britain excluded will mean a significant loss of what once make London so vibrant. Britian is no longer a good location for any European business office or factory.
I am shocked that Dana C does not see what is clearly obvious. No Schengen means London will no longer be the cosmopolitan town it used to be. The exodus will take about 10 years.
Even Trump refuses to do any trade deal with Britain. How much worse will it get?
Again, London (nor any of the nations that make up the UK) are or ever have been part of Schengen.
Again, London (nor any of the nations that make up the UK) are or ever have been part of Schengen.
From that citation:
The UK formally requested to participate in certain provisions of the Schengen acquis
At many external border crossing points are special lanes for EU, EEA and Swiss citizens since all these (including British citizens covered by Schengen) require less documentation. That will change when Brexit completely removes Britain from Schengen.
Once Britain withdraws from Schengen (Sexobon again fails to read his own ciations), then so many EU citizens, who make a British economy so vibrant, must leave London or constantly renew visas. And British citizens must apply in advance for travel documents to the rest of Europe.
Business in Europe will remain easy and flexible. Britain must withdraw from all Schengen options putting more restrictions on what was once a vibrant economy.
Britain is in Schengen. But the British had some border controls (ie to protect Britain from rabies). Visas were not required - making travel and conducting business easy. All that gets complicated and restrictive once Brexit happens. British citizens will no longer be trusted in the EU. EU citizen must beg permission (get visas) to work in London.
More reasons why Brexit obviously will only harm the British economy.
Rhianne - Britain was part of Schengen - that permitted productive economic activity with the EU. Britain only opted out of a few aspects of Schengen - for security reasons. Brexit means Britain must withdraw from Schengen (because Britain was in Schengen) - causing economic harm.
Sexobon, the UK was part of and must withdraw from Schengen.
Sexobon, the UK was part of and must withdraw from Schengen.
Sexobon, the UK was part of and must withdraw from Schengen.
Sexobon, the UK was part of and must withdraw from Schengen.
Sexobon, the UK was part of and must withdraw from Schengen.
Sexobon, the UK was part of and must withdraw from Schengen.
If not part of Schengen, then why will all Schengen rules, that make British travel easy in the EU, now be removed? Because Britain was part of (but did not fully implement) Schengen. Sexobon only read a soundbyte looking for an excuse to attack. He again failed to learn facts.
Brexit means Britain must withdraw from Schengen - which creates problems for the Ireland / Northern Ireland border. A border that was open due Britain being part of Schengen.
The incompetent Prime Minister May is fighting for her job - because Brexit is a disaster created only to empower extremists (ie Boris Johnson). There was no plan. Brexit can only happen with serious damage to the British economy. That was obvious two years ago.
Even the most economically naive in Britain are finally learning that Brexit people were lying. They had no plan. They really did not think it would happen. They must now deny (more lies) the job losses and financial punishment that must happen.
May's job is on the line. Brexit was so dumb that it could not be negotiated in two years. British citizens deserve a hard Brexit. The exodus will begin next month.
I don't necessarily disagree with your views and I certainly don't intend to continue with my pedantry but I think you might be mixing up Schengen with the relevant aspects of Maastricht (The Maastricht Treaty or Treaty of Maastricht or whatever they called it) from the early 1990s.
London will not cease being a vibrant world city because of brexit.
The demographics may shift - certainly, but London is a world city with inhabitants from every part of the world. It was ever thus.
Brexit will almost certainly have a profound impact on London's ability to act as a financial centre and may well lose a proportion of its current EU residents - but it will not stop being a world city.
I am shocked that Dana C does not see what is clearly obvious. No Schengen means London will no longer be the cosmopolitan town it used to be. The exodus will take about 10 years.
London has been a cosmopolitan city for a very, very long time.
The rest of the country will suffer more I think.
If not part of Schengen, then why will all Schengen rules, that make British travel easy in the EU, now be removed? Because Britain was part of (but did not fully implement) Schengen
No. Sorry but you are wrong.
The Schengen Agreement and its implementing Convention were enacted in 1995 only for some signatories,but just over two years later during the Amsterdam Intergovernmental Conference, all European Union member states except the United Kingdom and Ireland had signed the Agreement. It was during those negotiations, which led to the Amsterdam Treaty, that the incorporation of the Schengen acquis[7] into the main body of European Union law was agreed along with opt-outs for Ireland and the United Kingdom, which were to remain outside of the Schengen Area.[8]
That deceitful dullard tw quoted a part of the article I linked to:
The UK formally requested to participate in certain provisions of the Schengen acquis
Then he leaves out what immediately follows his quoted selection in a blatant attempt to defraud.
– Title III relating to Police Security and Judicial Cooperation – in 1999, and this request was approved by the Council of the European Union on 29 May 2000. The United Kingdom's formal participation in the previously approved areas of cooperation was put into effect by a 2004 Council decision that came into effect on 1 January 2005. Although the United Kingdom is not part of the Schengen passport-free area, it still uses the Schengen Information System, a governmental database used by European countries to store and disseminate information on individuals and property. This allows the UK to exchange information with countries that are a part of the Schengen agreement, often for the sake of liaising over law enforcement.[ ...
Bold mine, which is the only part relevant to this discussion.
As usual, tw gets caught lying and tries to manipulate irrelevant information in a smoke and mirrors attempt to deceive people.
I stated the fact that the UK opted out of Schengen. That the UK requested participation in "Police Security and Judicial Cooperation" aspects of Schengen has little bearing on the vibrancy of London. The passport free area which the UK opted out of and never participated in is the RELEVANT fact. Tw misattributed London's vibrancy to an aspect of the Schengen Area that the UK was never part of.
Tw is a senile old coot. :crazy:
One twist is that Ireland's opt-out of Schengen is contingent on maintaining the
Common Travel Area, which may not be possible post-Brexit. So while the UK may not have to remove itself from Schengen, it may need to figure out how to deal with Ireland joining it.
Do ya think they'll have to build a wall?
... but I think you might be mixing up Schengen with the relevant aspects of Maastricht (The Maastricht Treaty or Treaty of Maastricht or whatever they called it) from the early 1990s.
Much was in common with Schengen and Maastricht. How much different are the details? I am not sure, but it is irrelevant. Maastricht no longer applies. Maastricht gave London so much of its vitality. Schengen is the treaty that continues or expanded it. With a hard Brexit, all the advantages of Maastricht and Schengen are lost. Economic downturn is inevitable.
Discussed are a disaster from a
hard Brexit. That is worse case. No EU country should agree to a soft Brexit. What will happen in Ireland (the so called backstop) should result in massive pain and economic disaster to an interconnected Ireland / Northern Ireland economy. No problem. The so many brainwashed midlanders don't know and don't care. They would rather believe Boris Johnson had a plan and was working in their interest. Just like saying Trump is working for everyone but himself. Never happen.
Brexit is a disaster for the British middle class and working class - who have no idea how destructive it will be. Large amounts of industrial production must leave Britain to survive - if Brexit happens. Unfortunately due to no intelligent thought and a deal that never had a hope in hell, Brexit will happen and will be destructive.
Only one question remains. How destructive - both short term and long term?
I'm sure Elaine May, working with the phone manufacturers in Shenzhen, will figure something out.
Theresa May must change her name. Everything she writes in a speech causes wild laughter in the House of Commons. Elaine May writes good comedy.
Interestingly, or not, MPs are not actually permitted to read written speeches in the House of Commons.
Sure is a lot of these on the net...
Here's an interesting correlation, Brexit vote vs Mad Cow coverage. [SIZE="1"](I think they're lying)[/SIZE]
[SIZE="1"](I think they're lying)[/SIZE]
Maybe joking rather than lying but, yes, it's obviously fake.
I... MPs are not actually permitted to read written speeches in the House of Commons.
She still writes that comedy before speaking it. Britain has chosen to laugh. Then pain can be ignored. Let the good times roll - all over them.
Brexit never made sense to anyone who is an adult thinking like an adult.
She still writes that comedy before speaking it.
It is called stand-up. Only better comedians do it.
Theresa 'Elaine' May tried to spin eggs today. She could not even do that. Was there ever a Prime Minister less competent?
Maybe she should stick to stand-up?
Abbot and Costello, Martin and Lewis, Desi and Lucy, watch out. Here comes Theresa May and tw (her funnyman as only he could be) in the new comedy team T'N'T.
They'll be Dyn-o-mite!
The audience is never part of the act. Theresa May and Boris Johnson. Britain's favorite comedy team. With a cast of a million - brainwashed Brits. Please try to keep up with the program.
We must look pretty silly this side of the pond trying to work out what will happen.
But from here, it appears that, right now, that the UK will be saving, and the EU losing, no less than £39,000,000,000 from no-deal Brexit?
That's a tonne of filthy lucre.
With that kind of money we could forget the wall and dig a Mexican Channel.
I can't imagine a set of circumstances where the UK won't pay the 39 Billion.
Rhianne, don't forget to account for stupid politicians. :lol:
Yes, and to be fair we do have an awful lot of stupid politicians, but remember that the £39 billion isn't some kind of fee for leaving the EU, instead a fulfillment of signed-for agreements already made. Tory MPs can (and will) posture all they want but lawyers and courts don't often take politicians stupidity into account.
May is playing possum politics. Do nothing to get something. She is playing cards without even closest advisers knowing what she is holding and what her strategy is. But we can easily speculate. By doing nothing (and because so many other British politicians in all parties are not acting as leaders), then she hopes her plan remains the only plan.
She is counting on nobody standing up for Britain and calling for a new referendum. Based upon inaction by all parties (except the SNP) due to so much dissention, then Britain is stuck with May's bad deal.
Any pound that went to the EU resulted in massively more assets in return. Do to how spread sheets measure, a massive value from being in the EU cannot be measured. That value will be lost starting with and not limited to job losses.
Brexit makes no sense. But Britain has a serious shortage of leadership. So a decision is only being made by emotions - resulting in inaction.
Apparently that is how PM May is playing it. Which explains so much silence about a looming tidal wave called Brexit. Things get quiet just before that wave strikes.
Well, don't expect yellow vests to start showing up in the UK. Remember, they couldn't even deal with a yellow bikini.
[ATTACH]66094[/ATTACH]
[YOUTUBE]0pvrcSejDjI[/YOUTUBE]
[youtube]iYmCEW1qb3A[/youtube]
Looks like you're going to quit the EU cold turkey.
If you experience symptoms of withdrawal; remember, what doesn't kill you makes you stronger.
That or it leaves you a cripple. But then you'd be able to use handicap parking. See, every cloud has a silver lining.
Wear a yellow bikini and protest in the streets. Post a selfie here.
At this point, I think that cancelling brexit is more likely.
If the yellow bikini protests are successful.
An obviously incompetent Prime Minister was expected to lose a Brexit vote. Nobody expected how dumb those Brexit supporters are. Parliament voted over 2 to 1 against a Brexit deal. Even British citizens, who voted for Brexit, should apologize for being so easily brainwashed by British wacko extremists. A vote against Brexit was widespread across almost all British political parties. Because a majority saw Brexit as a scam.
Notice those (ie Boris Johnson) who most advocated for destruction to the British economy have disappeared - have become scarce.
May would have been smarter to rename herself Elaine and then write comedies. Instead she decided to align herself with Britain's least educated citizens who even promote hate of immigrants. This resulting conclusion was one sided obvious and stated here so many times for how long? Because the stupidity called Brexit was always that obvious.
That vote was suppose to happen on 11 Dec. May delayed it so as to make more deals. Instead, opposition to Brexit increased in all parties. Even many in May's own Conservative party voted against Brexit. Brexit was always that stupid.
Many options exist. But three viable ones are May resigns, Britian hold an emergency referendum on Brexit, or Britain suffer the worst possible penalties by going through with Brexit and suffering major job losses.
Amazing how the people to suffer most from Brexit - the Midlanders - so wanted this. To paraphrase another, "Of course she's a lyin' motherfucker, I didn't hire her to be honest, I hired her to wreck shit."
Wacko extremism is not limited to America.
These are the good old days.
nsfw language:P
[YOUTUBE]ae5t1CZFCU8[/YOUTUBE]
What is anyone doing viewing any of this stuff at work. When at work, one works. Even those silly text messages can wait till tonight. That is why they are text messages.
Tories made some non-disclosed deal with a Northern Ireland party to save PM May. Just barely. I don't know why. Her Brexit deal was the most voted against in British History since 1920. Could she be any less competent?
But then it says so much about so many British citizens easily brainwashed into voting for major job losses. Those losses have not even started.
How many hackers so easily manipulated Midlanders into harming their employment and standards of living?
Curious are politics being played by other parties. Nobody is pushing for a second Brexit referendum. For fear of being blamed for the result. So British citizens must be harmed due to total inaction and an incompetent PM. A severe shortage of leadership not just limited to the PM.
Where are people such as Boris Johnson whose only purpose in life was to "wreck shit". And now hides out because he did so much damage. Where are educated British citizens who obviously would have seen that?
Apparently someone sexed up the facts. Then many, who use a penis to think with, voted for Brexit.
It is called adults who think like children. Or the now popular expression, they think with their reptilian brain.
It all gets solved if a second referendum votes to reject Brexit. That is the only good solution. And currently impossible.
What is anyone doing viewing any of this stuff at work. When at work, one works. Even those silly text messages can wait till tonight. That is why they are text messages.
Umm...lunch break?
A well-rounded employee is valued by enlightened employers; and in competitive labor markets, "work/life balance" is considered an essential selling point.
A well-rounded employee is valued by enlightened employers; ....
Best for a well rounded employee is to diet. Nothing reduces calorie intake more then vomiting due to reading Trump Tweets.
Trump Tweets - The Breakfast of Champions
Watch Yvette Cooper, he could change everything.
The close relationship between GB and the EU seems to have changed the national character.
Much of that problem is traceable to PM May. Remember, nobody (especially those who wanted to wreck shit by promoting Brexit) wanted the PM job. May was basically a remaining choice. She is rather isolated - does not take outside advise. And is representative of strained relations with the EU.
The Economist describes her:
Ms May ... could have embraced both sides of the Brexit divide and al parties when deciding how to implement the vote. She could have been up-front with the public about the trade-offs inherent tin Brexit, which always pointed towards messy compromise And she might have discussed options more openly with other EU leaders, knowing they have to agree the terms of any Brexit deal.
Yet she chose to do none of this. Without consulting even her own cabinet she decided in October 2016 to lay down "red lines" for Brexit, which amounted to leaving the single market and customs union, ending the free movement of people and escaping entirely the jurisdiction of European courts.
In short, she decided to make business in Britain more expensive and less competitive.
Along the way she ignored the advice of experience officials and diplomats, losing her ambassador to the EU. ... Instead she fell back on a coterie of familiar counsellors less knowledgeable about Brussels. She also called an unnecessary election in June 2017, again without consulting colleagues, in which she lost he party's majority, forcing her to rely on support from the DUP, hideously complicating the Brexit negotiations regarding Northern Ireland. And she then conducted the talks largely in secret, not informing her own MPs or even her own Brexit secretary (she is now on her third them) about what she was doing. ...
Yet despite her massive defeat, she refuses to change her red lines, and still believes that something close to her deal is the only one realistically available.
She was never a good PM choice. But Britain' children were told by extremists that Brexit was good Then learned years ago that the Brexit promoters were only seeking political power for self serving gratification. Did not want and were incapable of dealing with the disaster they had created. So May was sucked into the vacuum. Britain has the PM is deserves because so many midlanders were so easily brainwashed by lies.
Only way out is to vote again to reject Brexit. But in politics now flooded in illogical emotions, no leader is willing to call for the only viable alternative. So the British, who have no backbone and who voted for Brexit as children, will suffer less jobs and growth. Already the EU is moving towards other nations and addressing other major and necessary changes. Especially in the East European nations. The Brits will be cut out as if undesirable foreigners. The fundamental strength, that once included Britain, is now concentrating in France and Germany. Because so many British voters were brainwashed by people (ie Boris Johnson) who only wanted to 'wreck shit'.
These are the good old days.
God I hope not.
Well, they are the days we've got...
Curious are politics being played by other parties. Nobody is pushing for a second Brexit referendum. For fear of being blamed for the result. So British citizens must be harmed due to total inaction and an incompetent PM. A severe shortage of leadership not just limited to the PM.
A number of moderates from both parties left due to extremism in both Labour and Conservative parties. Even Tony Blair was quite blunt about the destruction of his party by extremists - who fail to lead even n Brexit. Whose only action is to naysay - offer nothing constructive.
Britain has a severe leadership problem. You can damn well bet that Russian hacker will play (prey) on emotional voters to further harm to the British economy.
No, Britain has a severe proxy problem, and has for a looooong time.
Proper proxies woulda never allowed the formation of the EU, and proper proxies woulda cleanly severed Britain's connection to the EU when the opportunity was presented.
correction: don't wait for the opportunity, make it happen.
You can damn well bet that Russian hacker will play (prey) on emotional voters to further harm to the British economy.
Oh they played their part in the referendum campaigns
Oh they played their part in the referendum campaigns
And so we have heard. My problem is that I don't have (did not find) hard facts to better understand it. Any examples?
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2018/10/17/russian-iranian-twitter-trolls-sent-10-million-tweets-fake-news/
An army of Russian trolls sent thousands of messages with the hashtag #ReasonsToLeaveEU on the day of Britain's referendum on membership of the EU, according to new data released by Twitter.
On 23 June 2016, the day of the Brexit vote, Russia mobilised an army of trolls, which at one stage included 3,800 accounts. The fake accounts Tweeted out 1,102 posts with the hashtag #ReasonsToLeaveEU.
The Russian-linked accounts Tweeted out the phrase “Brexit” more than 4,400 times during its period of activity, although mostly after the referendum had taken place.
The data from Twitter showed Russian and Iranian internet trolls sent more than 10 million Tweets in an effort to spread disinformation and discord in the West, including a day-long blitz on the day of the Brexit vote.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2018/10/17/russian-iranian-twitter-trolls-sent-10-million-tweets-fake-news/
Many such reports with numbers defined the size of that misinformation campaign. But what I really needed, so as to better appreciate, are specific examples of that misinformation. Since I always find it so difficult to believe such unsupported statements would be believed by any adult.
It might be that I was raised watching advertising intentionally deceive people with phony claims - such as "smoking cigarettes increase health". Would routinely listen to international radio broadcasts promoting news or propaganda. And routinely identified the characteristic differences that separated facts from suspect myths.
I have a problem understanding why anyone would read and believe that Hilary Clinton was running a sex slave operation in a Washington pizza shop basement. Cannot understand (grasp) why anyone (any adult) would even come close to believing that.
In Brexit, I have not nor understand specific examples of what was stated that would cause anyone to believe Brexit propaganda. Yes, we have numbers that these misinformation claims were in the tens of thousands. But what exactly were they saying that would cause anyone to believe any of them? That part I just do not get.
It is a simple rule. It must also say why and with numbers. That simple rule made it so obvious that Saddam did not have WMDs. Honesty always says why with as many statements or more paragraphs than I write. Otherwise it is probably a lie.
Why would anyone believe anything that was only a paragraph or two? What sort of claims would cause anyone to believe Brexit fake news? Soundbyte replies are a first indication of a lie.
I just never saw one good example of a misinformation post that so many believed. Many tens of thousands. But I never saw a specific example that so many automatically believed. So I have difficultly understanding what propaganda is working to deceive so many Brits.
Specific examples in this instance wouldn't be of value. The point was to flood the twittersphere with a weight of posts
Bear in mind a significant proportion of voters went to the poll not really knowing how they would vote or what the main issues were. Seeing a stream of pro-Brexit posts on social media gave the impression of an overwhelming level of support for leaving.
Facebook posts and tweets don't impact individually, they are just the individual droplets of water - its the deluge that does the damage.
Seeing a stream of pro-Brexit posts on social media gave the impression of an overwhelming level of support for leaving.
That does better explain it.
I am taken by observations from Facebook's army of content editors. Some report that reading so many misinformation posts on 911 or the Moon landing actually causes them to be more receptive to statements even though they new those were lies. Due to the overwhelming constant drumbeat of that misinformation. Also an interesting mental perspective I never knew / suspected.
I don't know enough about the psychological mechanisms at play but I wonder if it is similar to crowd dynamics?
One of the really dangerous aspects of the whole fake news thing is that ..I think ... it plays to the subconscious. Every decision you make, every opinion, every choice happens pre-consciously and is retrospectively translated into conscious thought.
It fees like the train of our thought leads to the conclusion - but that is an illusion. That shit was already worked out in some other part of the brain, fractions of fractions of seconds before you are having that thought. facebook and twitter, soundbytes and posters - these things are quick hits that we have already responded to before we realise we've even taken the information in - by which time all that's left is for us to explain to ourselves why we are responding.
One of the really dangerous aspects of the whole fake news thing is that ..I think ... it plays to the subconscious.
Which I believe those Facebook editors were observing. Having been told same lies enough times, then they started to believe them even though knowing each was not true.
Or another aspect applies. An ability to see through fake news requires one to always look beyond the statement - to always also demand the underlying what, whys, and perspectives. This was discussed in another thread. A fundamental difference exists between officer material and enlistedman. An enlistedman typically sees only what he is told. An officer must take known facts to 'solve the equation'; construct (grasp) a bigger picture. One who does not (cannot) do that is then easily manipulated by lies.
Even simpler rules apply. If a conclusion is not tempered by perspective (ie numbers), then an honest person has no business believing it. From what I have seen here and elsewhere (ie Democratic Convention, Cloud's experience with a Idle Air Control Valve, etc), plenty (maybe a majority) do not know how to do that.
Cloud's mechanic had a P1519 error code that means only a computer, wire, or valve is defective. So the mechanic kept replacing a part least likely to fail .... three times for $1200. Finally another mechanic replaced the $200 part that a long list of reasons (posted there) defined as clearly defective.
Why could he not see the obvious? He was not officer material. He could only keep doing what a check list ordered him to do.
Is that due to his (entrenched) subconscious? Or is that just a lack of basic thought training (obtained mostly from experience)?
Never let emotions appear anywhere in a decision. Always grasp the bigger picture. And know honest answers always require numbers. My experience is that many never learn any of these basic concepts. Therefore cannot see an obviously defective IACV valve, did not do (learn) what is necessary to be officer material, and automatically believed only what was told.
And so the question. Are we discussing a subconscious bias to not want to see underlying facts? Or is a subconscious 'screw the world; I am going to solve this' attitude necessary to make possible seeing through myths, lies, misinformation, and the not always obvious? Only the latter is officer material. Is that grounded in the subconscious?
A subconscious exampled by Facebook editors is different from the subconscious that makes possible or that obstructs discovery of a defective IAC valve. Which subconscious applies?
I am just not sure which subconscious applies? In part, because even at the age of 12, I was using these obvious thinking techniques to fix vacuum tube TVs. It was easy except when confronted by retail salesman who could not believe one so small or colored wrong could do this stuff. Solving problems is easy. It amazes me how many cannot (or fear to) do it. Getting the emotional to finally learn or cooperate - that other subconscious is not easily solved.
So I guess we now have three different subconsciouses. And crowd dynamics could apply in each case. Which applies? Oh for a clinical psychologist.
Bottom line: some people just cannot think through a problem. Why? Some people do not learn how.
One of the really dangerous aspects of the whole fake news thing is that ..I think ... it plays to the subconscious. Every decision you make, every opinion, every choice happens pre-consciously and is retrospectively translated into conscious thought.
It fees like the train of our thought leads to the conclusion - but that is an illusion. That shit was already worked out in some other part of the brain, fractions of fractions of seconds before you are having that thought. facebook and twitter, soundbytes and posters - these things are quick hits that we have already responded to before we realise we've even taken the information in - by which time all that's left is for us to explain to ourselves why we are responding.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illusory_truth_effectPerhaps I'm just an ignorant American but it appears the EU has a lot of cliques and side deals going on that I wasn't aware of. :blush:
... but it appears the EU has a lot of cliques and side deals going on that I wasn't aware of. :blush:
Notice that the UK wants to cut off the only economic relationship they have with all those nations. As of trade barriers, tariffs, plenty of custom duties and red tape paperwork, and restoring what was removed to solve the Ireland civil war problem - all that will somehow be good.
MPs voted for an extension to Brexit. But far more interesting is the logic being used to obfuscate everything. If British citizens, now told reality and not lies, vote again for Brexit, then that would be undemocratic. Even that bull is somehow honest or logical.
Not only is PM May incompetent. Corbyn (from the opposition party) also wants Brexit. Being incompetent, Corbyn and May cannot even agree on what they both really want. UK has no other leadership willing to stand up and protect the British economy - by voting to stay in the EU.
Incompetence among Britain leaders is, well, I cannot think of another time where so much incompetence was so widespread - even among British voters.
PM May, today, is now blaming a collective failure in Parliament for not voting for her bogus Brexit deal. Britain's leaders are that self serving and myopic.
Problem in Britain is, well, 85% of all problems are directly traceable to top management. In this case, fools voted to do so much harm to their economy, their jobs, and their standard of living. They voted for Brexit and got leaders (and problems) they wanted.
Those many Brexit promoters listed billions of Pounds saved with Brexit. After the Brexit vote, they admitted they were lying. Those savings will not exist. And still so many British voters want economic harm - and leaders who are still promoting lies. Including and not limited to PM May ... who has yet to accomplish anything as Prime Minister.
When a leader says "plenty of blame to go around", then 99% of all problems are directly traceable to top management. These are the people that so many easily brainwashed British voters wanted.
Those British who voted for Brexit were unduly influenced by Sycorax. You'll find that most of those Brexiteers have A+ blood which constitutes
42% of the UK population. It's only the remainder of about 10% that voted for Brexit, bringing the total to 51.9%, who were just blindly following others' leads.
You'll find that most of those Brexiteers have A+ blood which constitutes 42% of the UK population.
Apparently their blood flows red. So they are really commies. A fact that would not be apparent until they riot in the streets.
"fools voted to do so much harm to their economy, their jobs, and their standard of living."
I'm thinkin' the 'fools' voted to take on hardship so as to regain their nation's autonomy.
Severing long-term ties with the EU wasn't gonna be easy or painless.
Too bad for the 'fools' they're saddled with 'leaders' instead of 'proxies'.
Those British who voted for Brexit were unduly influenced by Sycorax. You'll find that most of those Brexiteers have A+ blood which constitutes 42% of the UK population.
:biglaugha
Brexit or BRUK, that is the question:
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The politicking and economics of outrageous referendum,
Or spin yarns up against a channel of troubles
[COLOR="Silver"](BRUK - Banana Republic of the United Kingdom)[/COLOR]
A pathetic British Prime Minister went to Brussels to again beg for a better deal. EU bluntly told her she already has the only possible deal. Then asked her to leave so that 27 other nations could discuss her. When PM May was brought back, German Chancellor Merkel recommended she do what is responsible - a second referendum. Especially since Brexit supporters, after the first referendum, admitted to outright lying to intentionally deceive British citizens.
Britain needs leaders replaced - especially PM May and Labor party leader Corbyn. Both not only want Brexit. Both are so destructive as to not even agree with each other. Neither are working for UK citizens. Both are playing power politics for personal advancement. Both fear what would happen if Britain does what the German Chancellor bluntly (and accurately) recommended.
Somehow a second referendum would be undemocratic ... since British citizens would now be informed when voting.
They could leave the EU; then, hold another referendum to vote for either rejoining the EU; or, becoming a US territory (like our other islands).
I get 75% of my Brexit news from Jonathan Pie. Now I can't wait to hear his take on May offering to step down if they take her deal. That has got to be unprecedented.
This ball is all tee'd up for you, Mr Pie.
PM May is down to her last option. Her promise to resign will change the votes of many who voted against because they dislike her pathetic leadership.
It also says to the many who want Brexit but voted against the deal, this is your last chance. That also has gotten some to announce they will change their vote.
Parliament had something like 12 resolutions - for everything from May's deal to a second referendum. All were rejected. It says how pathetic both May and Corbyn are as leaders. It says there is no responsible leadership representing the UK. Only people who crave their own personal advancement and self serving biases are the leaders.
Both May and Corbyn want Brexit. Even those two self serving leaders (playing politics for their own agenda) cannot come to an agreement. And where are people such as Boris Johnson who promoted this mess for his own personal advancement? He cannot be found. He did what he wanted. Wreck shit. And has left the UK to burn.
The writing's on the wall... out in the alley.
Of twelve votes that failed in Parliament, one that came closest to passing called for a second referendum. Now that British citizens know the truth (were not brainwashed by people who want to wreck shit), that would be their best option.
But both May and Corbyn oppose a second referendum. It would do nothing to protect their power and position.
I get 75% of my Brexit news from Jonathan Pie. Now I can't wait to hear his take on May offering to step down if they take her deal. That has got to be unprecedented.
This ball is all tee'd up for you, Mr Pie.
John Crace in the Guardian has a few things to say too :p:
[YOUTUBE]cEyTLRcNNMU[/YOUTUBE]
Parliament said no, again, to the option.
Britain needs to find a leader. It currently voted for and therefore has none.
It was a major concession by PM May. Her entire top staff was called in, all cell phones were confiscated and locked away, and (apparently) she finally listened to advise.
As a result, PM may will talk with Labour leader Corbyn. These two pathetic leaders are expected to stop shouting cheapshots.
Actually not a good thing. Since what Britain needs - a second referendum - will not happen. But finally the two pathetic leaders have finally found their brains. And will now do what moderates do. Talk. Negotiate. Reach a conscientious. As like adult leaders; not emotional children.
You're overlooking the possibility of a stalemate with no progress.
You're overlooking the possibility of a stalemate with no progress.
No progress means Britain crashes out of the EU. Worse than the deal that May is promoting. But both options are bad for Britain.
At this point, a majority of UK citizens should now realize Brexit is bad. But the power brokers (May and Corbyn) don't want to let British citizens vote for protecting the British economy. So a best option is not even on the table.
Corbyn says he wants to talk with May. Since both want the same thing. And are only arguing over details that cannot change. Either they take the EU deal or crash out of the EU with massive penalties to the British people.
Notice how liars who promoted Brexit (ie Boris Johnson) are nowhere to be seen. They did what they wanted - to wreck shit.
[YOUTUBE]PS983bBiXZs[/YOUTUBE]
Very funny
Brexit supporters are lied to (just like Trump supporters), see the lie, and still believe and support the liar who only wants to "wreck shit".
From the Economist of 31 Aug 2019:
ONE BY ONE, the principles on which the Brexit campaign was fought have been exposed as hollow. Before the referendum, Leavers argued that victory would enable them to negotiate a brilliant deal with the European Union. Now they advocate leaving with no deal at all. Before the vote, they said that Brexit would allow Britain to strike more free-trade agreements. Now they say that trading the the bare-bones terms of the World Trad Organizations would be fine. Loudest of all they talked of taking back control and restoring sovereignty to Parliament. Yet on August 28th Boris Johnson, a leading Leaver who is not prime minister announced that in the run-up to Brexit Parliament would be suspended altogether.
His utterly cynical ploy is designed to stop MPs steering the country off the reckless course he has set to leave the EU with or without a deal on October 31st. ... Because he is too weak to carry Parliament in a vote, he means to silence it. In Britain's representative democracy, that sets a dangerous precedent. ...
Of all her mistakes ... Theresa May's gravest was to plant the idea that Britain might do well to leaven the EU without any exit agreement. Her slogan that "no deal is better than a bad deal" was suppose to persuade the Europeans to make concessions.
Like the brainwashed who love Brexit, she also did not get it. Brexit only means more bad for British workers and their economy. How many lies will Boris Johnson (like Trump) state before a brain between shoulders replaces one hanging between legs.
In fact the government's own analysis suggests that no deal would make the economy 9% smaller after 15 years than if Britain had remained. .... If Britain leaves with no deal it will face even more urgent need to reach terms with the EU, which will demand the same concessions as before - and perhaps greater ones, giver that Britain's had will be weaker.
All that has always been obvious. Brexit is clearly promoted by the many who only want to "wreck shit". The emotional who know only because feelings from their penis prove it.
How many more Boris Johnson lies will be exposed? They come in waves. The brainwashed who swallowed those lies will still support him. An example of how one repeatedly hates himself because he cannot think for himself. Those types can be told to "wreck shit" and therefore know it must be good.
"(The British) never, never, never shall be slaves."
That is what they said in Syracuse. That is what they said in Constantinople. That was obvious to the Aztecs. That is what they said in Africa.
Extremists who are so sure of themselves are among the first to fall.
Andy Grove:
Success breeds complacency. Complacency breeds failure. Only the paranoid survive.
But only the paranoid who are thinking in adult manner, learn facts, reach a logical conclusion, and ignore their fears. The other paranoia, called emotion, means one becomes entrenched and indecisive. No different from extremists who breed and promote complacency; to also become entrenched and indecisive.
Brexit - because so many are entrenched, brainwashed, and indecisive.
Brexit: cuz people wannabe free.
Sovereignty is passé but some still take it seriously.
After Brexit they still have national and local governments plus royalty. That's free?
After Brexit they still have national and local governments plus royalty. That's free?
Everything going in and coming out must be inspected and charged custom duties. A big wall must be restored to separate Ireland from N Ireland. We know Brexit will only increase costs in Britain. Major companies are implementing plans to move out of Britain. Toyota will even shutdown a whole car assembly plant.
So yes, they will be freer - from jobs. No problem. Boris Johnson has spoken so many lies that they can also be freed from the truth. Lies will make you free. (Also true when stated in German.)
All intrinsic to Britain. What's in your backyard is easier to moderate than what's not. Last time I looked: Brussels was still in Belgium.
#
"they will be freer"
Yes, they will be.
Last time I looked: Brussels was still in Belgium.
which is only a 5 hour drive from London........
All intrinsic to Britain. What's in your backyard is ...
Taking lessons from the master liar, The Don. When caught lying, then write plenty of mumbo jumbo. Limit it to the comprehension level of disciples - 140 characters. Then extremists will believe and know it is true.
Plywood sales in Alabama have spiked now that everyone is boarding up to protect from the coming hurricane. Since that too must be relevant to Brexit.
...and they still won't be free to go and buy semi-automatic weapons and shoot up a croquet tournament
"which is only a 5 hour drive from London........"
It could a five minute walk. It's not 'in' Btitain, and is not controlled by the British (just the opposite, which is why a [slim] majority voted to exit).
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You callin' me a liar, tw?
If so: you know where you can go.
Already told you: get it right or zip it.
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"...and they still won't be free to go and buy semi-automatic weapons and shoot up a croquet tournament"
Yes, heaven forbid the British might exercise self-rule, give themselves back private gun ownership, and become murderin' butchers like all American gun owners.
Best to just let 'em go at it with knives...oh, wait...
Henry is an extremist. He lies to himself. He even lie about lying. It explains his deviate love of The Don. And loves to "wreck shit". He even lies about that; says it is good.
UK Supreme Court could not be more blunt. An 11-0 verdict said PM Johnson violated the law. It did not take him long (he is an extremist who only wants to wreck shit) - only two months.
Meanwhile the Conservative Financial Times did something extraordinary. They demanded the conservative Boris Johnson resign. They were blunt.
This ruling leaves a stain on his character and competence. Faced with such a damning judgment, any premier with a shred of respect for British democracy and the responsibilities of his office would resign.
Brexit only exists because these extremists blatantly lied (some have since admitted it) and were believed.
Bluntly: *impeach him.
*you Brits have sumthin' like that over there? or do you go the 'no confidence' route? How does it work there?
This ruling leaves a stain on his character and competence. Faced with such a damning judgment, any premier with a shred of respect for British democracy and the responsibilities of his office would resign.
Is that a demand that he resign? Or a prediction that he won't?
Is that a demand that he resign? Or a prediction that he won't?
Review history. Watergate. Nixon also lied incessantly. His entrenched supporters refused to demand what was proven necessary.
However, once his lies were too glaringly obvious, the stampede to stop supporting him was massive and fast.
Johnson (like the American extremist president) will lie incessantly while refusing to give in. We know Brexit was promoted by lies. That is not even debated any more. The lies must be so massively obvious. And then a Conservative party stampede must happen to get him to concede.
All this is causing a serious discussion about the need for a UK Constitution. For example, is it legal for Boris Johnson to lie to the Queen? Only extremists deny all this lying has been ongoing. A denial that will continue in the Conservative Party until a stampede suddenly happens.
However that will probably happen to late to save the British economy from damage that will be created by Brexit.
No, only extremists will keep makin' claims (look at all that lyin'!) without offerin' a jot of evidence.
But, what the hell: impeach 'em all! Impeachments all around! Bartender, another round of impeachments for all my friends! And while yer at it, take away all them ass-salt weapons too! That'll show 'em!
Let's burn this mutha down! But only within the strict confines of what's allowed by the G.N.D., of course.
And let's lobotomize all the kids, cuz what the world needs now is more Greta (used to be love, then coke, now it's a damaged teen fanatic). Hell, lobotomize the adults too (you know which ones ;) ) cuz how the hell else are we gonna get that 100% compliance we been strivin' for? Damn well past time to dissolve them borders, unify everyone, and kumbaya ourselves into that Brave New Word!
Extremists just wanna wreck shit.
...the apes of time.
So you are one of those long haired hippie types that Arlo Guthrie so accurately described?
Shrink I wanna kill. Kill. I wanna, I wanna see, I wanna see blood and gore and guts and veins in my teeth. Eat dead burnt bodies. ... And the Sargent came over, pinned a medal on me, sent me down the hall, said, "You're our boy."
"So you are one of those long haired hippie types that Arlo Guthrie so accurately described?"
Actually: I'm bald, dislike dope-smokin', only get violent in defense of self or others, and kinda like Arlo (cuz he was kinda, sorta, a [*leftie] libertarian).
*I can forgive him cuz he made some good tunes
Well Arlo was kind of anti establishment, I mean an electric guitar at Newport Folk Festival! Travesty, how could he, of all the nerve... it fucking worked! :yesnod:
We were doing 120 in 2nd gear overdrive in a '57 Chevy over the bridge into Newport. heh heh
[SIZE="3"]Happy International Tea Day![/SIZE]
Keep Calm and Shake It Off.
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Five days! Is everybody ready?
It'd be a good day for a guy to get married, hard to forget your anniversary!
Five days! Is everybody ready?
Yep. I moved some of my investment money into insulin manufacturing.
Yep. I moved some of my investment money into insulin manufacturing.
Novo Nordisk is hot, they spent a Billion dollars to build a plant in the US and are kicking Lilly's ass at almost a third less money. My Insurance demanded I switch.
Novo Nordisk is hot, they spent a Billion dollars to build a plant in the US and are kicking Lilly's ass at almost a third less money. My Insurance demanded I switch.
Every manufacturer of insulin will be making mad bank in a few days.
I expect to see a significant jump in price/dose, based on a British demand that will not be met, but will still somehow justify a price increase everywhere.
I guess not in Illinois...
I guess not in Illinois...
Cue the artificial shortage.
Brexit? Ho hum, boring, ours was much better.
Nothing but a few silly dress clowns dancing around...
...and everyone else chewing their nails.
I mean no rocket's red glare, no bombs bursting in air,
giving proof through the night Union Jack was still there.
Amirite!! :haha:
Where's my brother, tw, with the analysis?