Philadelphia: Cheesesteaks

I am reviving this thread, being both the King of Torresdale and a cheesesteak conoisseur.

Another entry for superb cheesesteak...along with being the cheapest cheesesteak I've had yet: Pizza City--Red Lion & Academy Rds. Chicken cheesesteak, no onion or peppers, ketchup, mayo, footlong, full of chicken and cheese--$3.05.

Worst cheesesteak I've had since living in the city of Philadelphia: New Station Pizza--3804 Morrell Ave. Tartar-style sauce for mayonnaise??? On a cheesesteak? Blecch!!!

For some reason, I have developed a cholesterol and sodium-filled obsession with cheesesteaks. They're quite a unique experience...much like toasted ravioli and pork steaks in St. Louis.

Toasted ravioli...blech! Ravs are either boiled and served with a healthy dollop of sauce made by an old woman who's name ends in a vowel and uses the phrase "sonamumbitcha", or pork-stuffed and fried. There is *no* other way.

Originally posted by alphageek31337
Toasted ravioli...blech! Ravs are either boiled and served with a healthy dollop of sauce made by an old woman who's name ends in a vowel and uses the phrase "sonamumbitcha", or pork-stuffed and fried. There is *no* other way.

Bite your tongue! ;)

Toasted ravioli is one of the greatest accidents of the 20th century...one that has paid handsome dividends to all the Italians back home on the Hill. :)

IMHO, you'd be hard-pressed to beat Jim's Steaks on South Street. Maybe it's the black-and-chrome decor, maybe it's the South Street location, maybe it's the Cheez Whiz... Whatever it is, it's the best I've ever had!

Amusing story: I once drove from Baltimore to South Street on a Friday night solely for the purpose of getting cheesesteaks from Jim's. I had to pay off a bet I'd made w/ a buddy of mine, you see. Silly me... I thought Green Bay's defense would be able to stop the Vikings on the previous Monday night.

Originally posted by Hubris Boy
IMHO, you'd be hard-pressed to beat Jim's Steaks on South Street. Maybe it's the black-and-chrome decor, maybe it's the South Street location, maybe it's the Cheez Whiz... Whatever it is, it's the best I've ever had!

I've had Jim's I think...not bad. A friend of mine from DC had them Saturday night as his first ever steak...not a good experience for him.

I personally think that the 3 best places to check out if you're a rookie are:

--Geno's (9th and Passyunk)
--Phillip's (24th and Passyunk)
--Jimmy's All American (Ridge Ave. near the Wissahickon Rail Station)

I had PhilaDeli (5th and South) a few weeks ago...not bad, but poor service.

I am generally a chicken kind of guy, so I'm also a big fan of Ishkabibble's (4th and South).

Amusing story: I once drove from Baltimore to South Street on a Friday night solely for the purpose of getting cheesesteaks from Jim's. I had to pay off a bet I'd made w/ a buddy of mine, you see. Silly me... I thought Green Bay's defense would be able to stop the Vikings on the previous Monday night.

You from Bawlmer?

I reckon it was about four years ago that me 'n my kinfolk packed up the pickup truck and headed on down to a new life in North Carolina. It's a beautiful place to live, and we haven't looked back since, but there are just some things you can't get here.

Gone are the days of soft pretzels sold at a busy intersection, by a man who probably just urinated in the woods and didn't wash his hands. Gone, too, are the cholesterol sandwhiches native to Philadelphia. That's right, though there are many stores that profess to sell a delicious "Philly Steak-N-Cheese", those heaping piles of meat dripping with a cheese-like substance on an authentic Amoroso roll are long behind. Sure, I get to drive up once or twice a year to visit family and partake of the holy cheese steak. But it is no longer a regular part of my diet.

Yes, I can get Tastycakes and Habberset Scrapple here. We're not totally uncivilized.

Incidentally, those sandwhiches they sell here as "Philly Steak-N-Cheese" are more closely related to the cheesesteak hoagie (and a poor knockoff at that).

North Carolina is not without its own culinary secrets. If any of y'all ever come down, look me up, and I'll point you to the best of the best log-burning backwoods barbecue places. Forget what you think you know about BBQ. Real BBQ comes from a pig, not a cow. Real BBQ is slow cooked over hickory or oak coals for upwards of 18 hours or more. Real BBQ is served with a vinegar based sauce. And that slop they serve at Red, Hot, and Blue is about as close to BBQ as a cheese steak you'd buy at McDonald's.

Hey wow! Welcome back, Wart-man!

Originally posted by Tony Shepps
Hey wow! Welcome back, Wart-man!

Mellow greetings, Reverend Wonder Toad. Imagine my surprise when I tried to telnet into cellar.org and didn't find waffle waiting there. I'm glad to see that the BBS merely metamorphosed into a butterfly (I never liked waffle anyway, but I digress).

So here I sit in the land of duct taped pickup trucks and PhD's who say "y'all", working on the preliminary steps of writing a Renegade BBS clone in Perl. It got me to wondering if any of the old school BBS's in Philly that I used to visit are still around.

I know most of the others are gone. Did IoAI finally disappear?

Verily I say unto you (yeah we have a lot of southern baptists here too) it warms my heart to see that you are still keeping the torch lit. If my own BBS were still up (taken down in 1994 or 1995), 2003 would be the 20 year anniversary. Makes me feel so Geeky (yes, with a capital "G").

Geeky? Naw man, you were actually ahead of yer time.

As far as IoAI - Institute of Artificial Insanity, for the uninitiated - I know that Craig kept things going longer than just about anyone else, but I don't think he's still going. He does have a website up at www.bulldada.com, but it's nothing but typical Craig stuff. Not that there's anything wrong with that. Craig is more entertaining than most human beings out there.

Being the Suburban Boy that I am...

The best cheesesteaks I know of right now are from Drexel Hill Style Pizza in (logically enough) Broomall. It's on West Chester Pike right near its intersection with Route 320.

Get the Royal Steak - two kinds of cheese, sauce, mushrooms, onions and peppers. Killer.

There used to be a good cheesesteak place in Raleigh, NC (TJ's Philly Grill), which was run by an expatriate from Chester. This was back in my late-college years ('92-93), though, so it's probably long gone.

jeff. who contributed a big picture of John Kruk to their walls...

Vinegar-based barbecue is tolerable, but a sad substitute for REAL BARBECUE BEEF WITH REAL TANGY TOMATO-AND-MOLASSES-BASED BARBECUE SAUCE FROM REAL MOOING COWS.

Been there. Came back. Liked it here better.

jeff. "Bring me a live cow! I'll eat what I want, and ride the rest home."

...if your idea of barbecue includes the charred flesh of a cow served with a catsup based sauce.

Now being a lover of all sorts of cooked meat, I do have to say I enjoy eating charred cow with the catsup based sauce. But that still doesn't make it Barbecue.

I refer you to The Lexington Collection, written by North Carolina native Dave Lineback. That's my Mustang you see in the writeup for Allen & Son BBQ, one of the premeire log-burning BBQ joints in the Old North State.

Allen & Son doesn't have the best BBQ in the state but they do have the best hush puppies. Golden brown and crispy on the outside, shaped like a golfball. The inside is a soft cornbread mildly sweetened and with little bits of onion as a bonus.

(Yes, one word, just like my grandfather taught me.) :)

WHAT is all this talk about beef? A true southerner knows that real BBQ can only be made from a pig!

I used to have this "discussion" all the time with an ex-girlfriend from Ft. Worth: Texans believe that "beef barbeque" is a redundancy, whereas TRUE southerners KNOW that it is an oxymoron.

BTW warthog- thanks for the link. I enjoyed it!

Originally posted by vsp
Being the Suburban Boy that I am...

Actually, I forgot to add my newest steak offering here...which occurred at *gasp!* The King of Prussia Mall on Tuesday. I went to the Starlight(?) in the Cafe Court and decided to order the Chicken Cheesesteak Hoagie. First, I saw it was $5.50, and second, this WAS a mall after all. But then I got the sandwich. Folks, this was NOT a sandwich. There was a bun at the bottom, with cheese, ketchup, mayo. lettuce, and mayo. But then came the chicken...I kid you not, there was a mountain of chicken on this puppy!!! I couldn't really even it as a sandwich...more like a fork and knife!!! I was left with a plateful of chicken at the end. Well worth the $5.50!

(On a side note, I hit Philip's on Passyunk this afternoon...excellent as usual, with enough grease "to make it honest" (as my fiance would say).)

Originally posted by Hubris Boy
WHAT is all this talk about beef? A true southerner knows that real BBQ can only be made from a pig!

And you haven't had real BBQ until you've had a barbequed pork steak (which I believe may only be a St. Louis and Chicago thing).

For some reason, a bbq'd pulled pork sandwich is sounding delicious right now...

Originally posted by sycamore


Actually, I forgot to add my newest steak offering here...which occurred at *gasp!* The King of Prussia Mall on Tuesday. I went to the Starlight(?) in the Cafe Court and decided to order the Chicken Cheesesteak Hoagie. First, I saw it was $5.50, and second, this WAS a mall after all. But then I got the sandwich. Folks, this was NOT a sandwich. There was a bun at the bottom, with cheese, ketchup, mayo. lettuce, and mayo. But then came the chicken...I kid you not, there was a mountain of chicken on this puppy!!! I couldn't really even it as a sandwich...more like a fork and knife!!! I was left with a plateful of chicken at the end. Well worth the $5.50!

If you want a cheesesteak at the Mall, you can't go to the foofy food court. You gotta go to the original food court, to the place just called "Philly Cheesesteaks". You'll still pay too much, and it's not the best cheesesteak, but it's definitely a legitimate cheesesteak.

Of course, if big mounds of chicken are your thing...

D'Allesandros.... awesome cheesesteaks. I have to find excuses to send the ambulance out there from time.

Also, I must recommend Amadeo's Too in Norristown ... not quite up to the D'Allesandro's standard, but tasty!

Originally posted by wolf
D'Allesandros.... awesome cheesesteaks. I have to find excuses to send the ambulance out there from time.

Also, I must recommend Amadeo's Too in Norristown ... not quite up to the D'Allesandro's standard, but tasty!

For some reason, the Amadeo's (both original and Too) cheesesteaks always make me feel queasy. Not the usual "I've just ingested a large quantity of grease" queasy, and it usually hits even before I've finished half. YMMV

Originally posted by russotto


For some reason, the Amadeo's (both original and Too) cheesesteaks always make me feel queasy. Not the usual "I've just ingested a large quantity of grease" queasy, and it usually hits even before I've finished half. YMMV

The BIG advantage (for me) of Amadeo's Too is that they deliver to Building 50 ... I'm kept prisoner during my shift (no breaks for the suicide hotline/commitment office), so I guess I've developed a tolerance.

Originally posted by wolf
Also, I must recommend Amadeo's Too in Norristown ... not quite up to the D'Allesandro's standard, but tasty!

We had Amadeo's for lunch on Saturday. Although a bit pricey, it was absoultely delicious! I highly recommend the Buffalo Chicken Cheesesteak.

Also, a nod to another steak I had a few weeks ago from Victoria's Pizza in Morrell Plaza (Frankford and Morrell Aves.). I highly recommend the Northeast Special Steak, with imported ham and tomatoes. They actually erred on the order, as I ordered it as a chicken steak. But in any case, it was excellent...well worth $4.75.

As I walked into my apartment building Thursday, I happened to see a new fast food menu laying on the carpet...apparently, one of the lone ones Rho and I don't have.

The place is Old Country Pizza (3209 Willits Rd. in Torresdale). At first glance, it appeared to be another pizza/Italian joint located on just about every corner in this part of the city. But I took a gander at the menu and saw some different menu items. Being the cheesesteak b**ch that I am, I went for the Buffalo Chicken Steak, with hot sauce and bleu cheese. Not bad, but not the best I've had, and certainly not worth $5.50. However, it was brimming with chicken. Unlike any other steak I've had, the meat was actually shredded, not chopped fine or in strips...unusual. All in all, our meal was not too bad, although a bit on the high side for a cheesesteak meal.

A lot of folks like to start Christmas Club accounts, but I'm thinking I'd like to start a Cheesesteak Club account. I put my savings into the account, then when I find new cheesesteak establishments, I can withdraw a small amount to fund my meal.

Like I need to gain any more weight here. ;)

It would seem that after only living in Philadelphia a year (as of Sept. 30th), my days of cheesesteak connoisseurship may be severely curtailed, if not over.

Off and on for the past few months, I've been experiencing chest pains. I wasn't having symptoms of a heart attack, more like bronchitis. I also figured that maybe I had pulled a muscle, or slept on my left side wrong. In addition, I was without health insurance from the beginning of July until September 1st, so I was hoping to hang on until then. The pains would come and go, but nothing serious...until noontime today.

As I was taking a claim, a severe pain hit me in my chest...I then felt a head rush so intense that I felt as if I passed out for a second. The pain lessened, but I felt very woozy. I then went on my lunch and figured I would see how I felt afterwards. The pain and wooziness continued...by this time, I was in tears. For the first time I can recall, I was truly terrified of dying. By 1:30, I decided this was enough and left work. Given that my doctor and hospital are within 2 blocks of my house, I decided to make the 45-minute drive back home. Trying to call my doctor was useless--couldn't get through. Since I have the option of going to the ER directly (w/o a doc's authorization), I chose to do so.

To my surprise, I was seen rather quickly, and the staff at Frankford-Torresdale Hospital were very courteous. At one point, they had to wheel me from the ER over to radiology. Rather than use a wheelchair, they wheeled my whole bad, which was actually fun.

Fortunately, I was told that I didn't appear to have a heart problem. When I went in today, I had a pulse over 110 and a temperature of 100 degrees. (Which could probably be attributed to my fear.) My EKG looked okay and my rhythm was normal. But then I got the bad news:

--First, they tell me that my heart may be abnormally large. They say it could be proportional to my size (b/c I am a big guy), but they're not sure. More tests will be needed.

--Secondly...the obvious:

RN: "Do you smoke?"

Sycamore: *looks guilty* "Yeah..."

RN: "Well, I smoke, so I'm not going to give you a big lecture. But we noticed that you have diminished lung capacity, which could be due to your smoking."

As I said, the obvious. I've only been smoking for 6 years, but I smoke...a lot. I've tried to quit on several occasions, most recently in January. I've seen people with voice boxes and have seen the pictures of emphysema-damaged lungs. I already know that they're bad for me.

But for some reason...something went off inside. I'm not sure what to call it...an alarm, a sign...I dunno. After being released from the hospital after 3 or so hours, I decided to have a bit of a gorge:

--one 2-liter bottle of Dr. Pepper
--one 2-liter bottle of Sunkist Orange
--one pack of Marlboro Milds
--one king size Almond Joy
--a $9 buffet at the Farm (at Franklin Mills)

I will probably have a cheesesteak tomorrow...preferably from Philip's in South Philadelphia.

I can't say for certain that I can easily kick my bad habits. I may even cheat along the way. But I already had one alarming situation in June, when Rho was diagnosed with end-stage renal failure. I knew my time was coming...and that time was today.

I certainly feel I have a right to enjoy life to its fullest, including surveying the world for that next awesome cheesesteak. But I'm only 2 weeks shy of 26, and I'm not ready to wreck my body so easily. It's time to not take it to such excess...

Well, they can't seem to figure out what exactly is wrong with me, but it seems to be a muscular problem. But this is what shocked me...

I live in the 2nd fattest city in the US. My diet has only gotten healthier in the past week and a half. I have gained 20 pounds in the past 2 years, and I am a rather large man. However, all my blood tests came back normal, so it appears that I am still relatively healthy. Then I got my cholesterol score:

208.

208?!

Are you shitting me?! That's all?! Granted, it needs to come down, but I figured it would be over 300. All those cheesesteaks were not for naught. ;) But at least I'm trying to clean up my act before I completely fall apart...

Syc,

I'm really glad to hear it wasn't your heart.

Best of luck to you.... I hope you don't have to give up the cheese steaks completely!

- Pie

I haven't tested out any new ones recently...I've been hitting the usual spots. Until tonight. And so, I present my newest offering:

Speedy Pizza (Fairdale and Knights Rd., NE Philadelphia): Their white pizza is to die for, but I decided to go with a chicken cheesesteak tonight. The steak is reminiscent of Ishkabibble's in South Philadelphia, with huge chunks of chicken crammed into a standard hoagie roll. Quite tasty, and well worth $4.65.

I gotta go down to Phili to get some cheese steaks. mmmmmm :) :D :) :D ;)

where do you live scampo?

I could mail you one, but I don't think the Postal Service would appreciate that...especially at a time like this. ;)

lol. i live in southampton, ny.

Cholesterol be damned!!! :)

Moffett's--On W. Tioga St., between Broad St. and Germantown Ave., across the street from Temple University Hospital: An accidental discovery. Hospitals creep me the hell out, so while Rho was undergoing minor surgery last Thursday, I stepped out for a smoke and saw this hole-in-the-wall. Went for the standard chicken cheesesteak with ketchup and mayo. Quite good, with enough grease to make it honest. $4.50. Bonus with this place--they sell beer. While you're polishing off a steak, wash it down with a cold one.

Hmmm...I wonder how many places in the city of Philadelphia alone sell cheesesteaks. I can think of 8 places in my own neighborhood that will deliver one to me. And this is Northeast Philadelphia...the foo-foo part of town. I can only imagine the numbers in South Philadelphia. Time to do some research...

Originally posted by sycamore
And this is Northeast Philadelphia...the foo-foo part of town.

Ex*CUSE* me? This must be some other meaning of "foo foo " with which I'm not familiar. :-) Old City...Chestnut Hill...the Main Line...but the *Northeast* is "the foo foo part of town"? Somebody needs to show you around town, Syc. :-)

Amadeo's Too rocks hard. I live about three minutes from there. Amadeo's (one, presumambly) catered lunch at Micro Focus for most of the time I worked there. I can confirm they deliver to Building 50, because there's a note on the wall at the restaurant behind the register about how the Norristown State patients aren't allowed any caffinated drinks. :-)

But seriously....your heart is enlarged, your lung capacity is dimished...and you're worried about *cheesesteaks* and blowing off the smoking issue? You really *don't* believe in statistics, do you? I wouldn't worry about concealed carry by citizens--you're still a bigger danger to yourself than any handgun.

Originally posted by MaggieL
Ex*CUSE* me? This must be some other meaning of "foo foo " with which I'm not familiar. :-) Old City...Chestnut Hill...the Main Line...but the *Northeast* is "the foo foo part of town"? Somebody needs to show you around town, Syc. :-)

After working around South and West Philadelphians, it IS the foo foo part of town. ;)

Originally posted by sycamore


After working around South and West Philadelphians, it IS the foo foo part of town. ;)

Which demonstrates the truth of what I said about neeeding to get out.

Oh...I need to second that D'Alessandro's endorsement too. In my salad days I lived in Roxborough, where D'Alessandro's was but a stone's throw away. *Wonderful* steaks there. And Monahan's Irish Pizza (IV-3-1110, "It's an easy number to remeber", it said on the box).

Damn, that *was* a long time ago...

I'm going to hammer the smoking point again, Syc, you blew it off too easy. That's real denial there. That shit will kill you.

My dad did his damnedest to kill himself with his diet, and he *almost* succeeded; we were certain the adult-onset diabetes and strokes were going to kill him. They sure made him suffer.

But he smoked like a chimney nearly all his life...and during one hospital admission for the circulatory problems they noticed his liver was enlarged--not an easy thing given his >340lbs weight..

It was cancer. He was gone within two weeks. The biopsy indicated the cancer probably seeded from his gut. And I remain convinced the original carcinogen there was in swallowed saliva from his tobacco habit.

He never made it to 60.

Originally posted by MaggieL
Which demonstrates the truth of what I said about neeeding to get out.

Believe it or not, I've been fortunate enough to see quite a bit of the area since I moved here. I am well aware of the actual foo-foo parts of town...at least here in the city.

I'm going to hammer the smoking point again, Syc, you blew it off too easy. That's real denial there. That shit will kill you.

WHERE was the denial?

Originally posted by sycamore


WHERE was the denial?

Ah! Now that I have your attention...:-)

The denial is sweeping something you don't want to think about off your mental stage, to avoid the cognitive dissonance. Like "I've only been smoking for six years..." as if that was just day-tripping. or "I smoke...well...a lot, really". I won't ask you how much "a lot" is--it's so much that you don't even want to put a number on it.

But you've had a wake-up call. Now you've been told the problem is "something muscular" ...presumably because there's no conduction defect showing up in your cardiogram. (Of course, the heart is a muscle, too...)

Maybe the nurse wouldn't lecture you because he or she smokes hirself. But I quit many years ago, so I don't have that problem.

You heard an alarm go off when you were told you have an enlarged heart and diminished vital capacity. But now they've told you your strip is clean and cholesterol is low, so it's bring on the cheesesteaks...

That alarm was real. It's telling you *you* know the smokes are killing you. And now that the immediate emergency is over, you're ready to sweep that alrm back under the carpet again, because the thought of breaking the tobacco addiction is too scary. "It's too hard" you tell yourself..."I'll never get though it, and it will just make my weight problem worse. I need something to smooth me out when I get nervous. It's my only vice, leave me alone..."

Sound familiar?

Originally posted by MaggieL
Ah! Now that I have your attention...:-)

Again, I must ask, WHERE was the denial about the smoking?

I live outside of Atlantic City and the best cheesesteaks has to be the White House Sub shop just off of the AC Xway. I think a lot has to do with the bread.

Originally posted by wwarner11
I live outside of Atlantic City and the best cheesesteaks has to be the White House Sub shop just off of the AC Xway. I think a lot has to do with the bread.

You're not the first person I've heard this from.

I was chatting with a co-worker the other day. He mentioned that he went to a cheesesteak place in Altoona, PA one day while he was out there. He said it was the worst cheesesteak he ever had...and he said it was the bread that did it.

The bread is indeed a prime component of the cheesesteak. The tastiest cheesesteaks I've had have been on Amoroso rolls.

lisa took me to that White House many years back, and it WAS great (for hoagies anyway), and I made the mistake of not remembering the exact location. How do you get there?

There was a story a few years back of a NJ state police hit, where they were monitoring the conversations of mobsters. And after listening to their conversations, they decided that "hoagies" must be code for "drugs" and "white house" must be where they were going to pick up the wholesale stash in Atlantic City. The cops were embarrassed when they stopped the cars on their way back only to find out it WASN'T code and they were in fact transporting HOAGIES.

(And for our east-coast-illiterate friends, "hoagies" are sandwiches made with delicatessen meats and cheeses on long rolls, typically by folks with Italian ancestry who bring their love of food, and lots of it, to Philly.)

If you should go to the White House sub shop and if you do like the bread, you will find a bakery just down the street from the sub shop called Rando's bakery. They supply most of the sub shops in the area and they will sell to people off the street. Let me know if you ever go there. I would love to hear your opinon.

Apparently, the place is well-regarded.

Originally posted by sycamore


Again, I must ask, WHERE was the denial about the smoking?

Nowhere. It doesn't exist. Never did. Move along, nothing to see here. You are perfectly justified in denying that you're in denial. :-)

This a bit like the old "Nathan Therm" bit back on SNL...."Defenseive? Who's being defensive! *I'm* not being defensive---*You're* the one who's being defenseive..."

So, having been duly alarmed about smoking, now you're now going to continue with it until you have actual explicit physical symptoms *again*, right? At which point it will be too late to panic.

Again.

In the meantime, you won't engage on the topic of smoking, because you'd rather play "red herring" about denial.

Ah, addictive behavior, gotta love it...:-) A bit like the five stages of grief, but postdated.

Does your lady smoke too?

------------

And with both cheesesteaks and hoages, it is most assuredly the bread.

Best theory I've heard on the "hoagie" name was that it was how the shipyard workers down on Hog Island used to carry their lunch to work. How we get from "Hog" to "hoag" I'm not sure. It's a damnfine portable meal though.

Originally posted by Undertoad

Lisa took me to that White House many years back, and it WAS great (for hoagies anyway), and I made the mistake of not remembering the exact location. How do you get there?

Tony,

I need to pick you up on my way there next time. (I've already been there twice since moving back to PA). But, in case you go before I do they're on Artic Avenue near Arkansas (I think). Best way to get there is to head a little downbeach (West or South) of Trump plaza on Atlantic Avenue, turn away from the beach, then turn right on Artic and it will be on your left within a few blocks.

And, yes, I still think they are the best hoagies that I have ever had.

Originally posted by lisa

And, yes, I still think they are the best hoagies that I have ever had.

Wow...meaning they're better than Michael's Deli. Pick me up on the way too. :-)

Originally posted by lisa
Originally posted by Undertoad

Tony,

I need to pick you up on my way there next time. (I've already been there twice since moving back to PA). But, in case you go before I do they're on Artic Avenue near Arkansas (I think). Best way to get there is to head a little downbeach (West or South) of Trump plaza on Atlantic Avenue, turn away from the beach, then turn right on Artic and it will be on your left within a few blocks.

And, yes, I still think they are the best hoagies that I have ever had.

The last GOOD hoagie I had in Philly was at Slack's off the Arimingo/Girard exit of 95. That was ca. 1996 so I'll qualify that.


On the same topic, for those who are caught out of Philly, Dave and Busters offers a pretty good cheesesteak. The roll is close to an Amoroso roll. They claim the rolls are flown in from Philly. Most of the steak sandwiches offered in the South and West are a joke and based upon Pat's and Geno's. provalone cheese and green peppers/mushrooms. I break balls on those who try to represent that as a Philly steak.

As for the White House, I recall it being on the SW corner of Mississippi and Arctic avenues. That was well over 10 years ago (late 80's), so don't hold me to it.
Kevin.

As for the White House, I recall it being on the SW corner of Mississippi and Arctic avenues. That was well over 10 years ago (late 80's), so don't hold me to it.

I'll bet you're right. Mississippi rings a chord in my brain. :)

Okay. So I have a question -

Not being in Philadelphia, but more in the Northern Virginia/DC area, where can I find a decent cheesesteak that is at least somewhat representative of the quality that would be found in Philly?

I know sycamore can help me out with this. Or maybe not. :)

Anyway. One of these days I'll come up to Philly. We should get some cheesesteaks or something. Must get car first. Man. Always something to spend money on :)

Damn...that's a toughie. Even after trying in several distant locales, I can't remeber *ever* having anything that truly captured the essence of either a cheesesteak *or* a hoagie anywhere else on the planet. Conventional wisdom is that it is largely an issue of the rolls used, and I'm loathe to disagree.

There's also the influence of a certain native wild abandon towards fat, oils and starch that is the perfect local blend of German and Italian cultures.

Originally posted by dhamsaic
I know sycamore can help me out with this. Or maybe not. :)

Ah, this is where being a former resident of DC actually pays off.

The Philadelphia Cheesesteak Factory on Baltimore Ave. (Rt. 1) in downtown College Park, MD. If you don't have anyone to take you over there, take the Green Line to the College Park/UMD station. Walk under the tunnel and walk up Calvert Rd. to Baltimore Ave. (about 4 blocks). Hang a right at Baltimore Ave., stay on the right hand side of the street, and it's about 2 blocks up. Truth be told, it doesn't compare to anything in Philadelphia, but it's not half-bad.

Word up, G. Since I have never experienced the Philly cheesesteak, I cannot compare - but I did hit a really good cheesesteak somewhere around here. They are apparently a place that has a shop open in Philly, but I don't remember their name. Friend of mine and I went there for lunch one day. It was pretty tasty. And yes, the bread was great.

The guy downstairs in our cafeteria also makes what I consider to be a pretty tasty cheesesteak. It's not the best one I've ever had, but it beats a hot dog any day of the week :)

Originally posted by sycamore

The [b]Philadelphia Cheesesteak Factory on Baltimore Ave. (Rt. 1) in downtown College Park, MD. ... Truth be told, it doesn't compare to anything in Philadelphia, but it's not half-bad. [/B]

Hmmm. I'll hgave to try it if I'm ever down that way again. But I usually regard the word "Philadelphia" in a cheesesteak offering to be the kiss-of-death.

If it doesn't compare to anything in Philly, they should call it the "College Park Cheesteak Factory". :-) College Park does have a cute little airport, though...longest continuously operating one in the US, I beleve.

Originally posted by MaggieL
If it doesn't compare to anything in Philly, they should call it the "College Park Cheesteak Factory". :-)

If it's not in Philadelphia, it really doesn't compare. :) Just like going to the grocery store and buying the Philly Steak. Ummm...no.

College Park does have a cute little airport, though...longest continuously operating one in the US, I beleve.

Correct. I believe they have antique planes there as well. I remember passing by it on Metro's green line as you head towards Greenbelt.

One time though, that place completely fucked up my order. I believe I ordered a chicken cheesesteak hoagie...and I wanted nothing on it (i.e. no peppers or onions). When I got home, all I had was a vegetarian hoagie. Lettuce and tomato...that was it. Man, was I pissed! I promptly drove back over there (b/c it was only 10 minutes from our apartment) and got it corrected...fucking moron. If I remember correctly, it's in a building that used to be one of the Little Taverns that used to be all over the DC area.

Well. Lunch time is starting, and the guy downstairs makes a pretty good cheesesteak. It's pretty cheap ($2.90, + $.90 for fries). Lotsa cheese, pretty alright bread... I get peppers and onions on it, and i'm pretty generous with the mayonnaise. I think I shall be having one of those for lunch today :)

Originally posted by dhamsaic
Well. Lunch time is starting, and the guy downstairs makes a pretty good cheesesteak. It's pretty cheap ($2.90, + $.90 for fries). Lotsa cheese, pretty alright bread... I get peppers and onions on it, and i'm pretty generous with the mayonnaise. I think I shall be having one of those for lunch today :)

No, that's HORRIBLE! It is NOT a real cheesesteak!! And if you ate it, you have FUCKING lost what little brains you have left!!! MORON!!!

Sorry...I was in a bit of a dham moment there. ;)

You're a boner.

To each his own, man. But I can back up the goodness of the $2.90 cheesesteak. At least, I could have. George got fired, which means he's not making it anymore. Oh well. But it was a pretty fine sub.

Originally posted by dhamsaic
mayonnaise

Perv. :-)

Mayo is good. Really really good. Though I prefer dipping my sandwiches in it and then eating, instead of just spreading it on the whole thing. You know - dip, bite, dip, bite. It's all good :)

Originally posted by dhamsaic
Mayo is good. Really really good. Though I prefer dipping my sandwiches in it and then eating, instead of just spreading it on the whole thing. You know - dip, bite, dip, bite. It's all good :)

Yeah, you gotta have the mayo, particularly on a chicken steak. And this is one of those situations where Miracle Whip will not do.

I'm still appalled at the one place I went to that used tartar sauce...blecch!

I just have to note at this point that the best commercially available mayo is Trader Joe's. It's more like hollandaise than mayonnaise. That is all.

I haven't tried it, but there's a TJ's right near my house. I'll have to have Jenni pick some up and make it into a sandwich.

Personally, I do appreciate the taste of Hellman's. I think it's still really damn good, even after all these years of eating it. Mayo goes good on a lot of things.

Originally posted by dhamsaic
Personally, I do appreciate the taste of Hellman's. I think it's still really damn good, even after all these years of eating it. Mayo goes good on a lot of things.

Ah, good choice. I'm a Kraft Real Mayo gal myself, even though I'm not suppose to have that. *grins*

Originally posted by MaggieL
So, having been duly alarmed about smoking, now you're now going to continue with it until you have actual explicit physical symptoms *again*, right? At which point it will be too late to panic.
Again.

Perhaps. You don't know for sure. Just because he wrote what he did on that day, doesn't mean he'll be following that path FOREVER. I mean, sheesh already!!! Plus, it's not YOUR job to "worry" him about the dangers of smoking...that's MINE, thanks. *smurks*

In the meantime, you won't engage on the topic of smoking, because you'd rather play "red herring" about denial.

OhmyGoddess! LMAOROTF!!! So, now if one doesn't talk about a topic, they are in denial...baaahahah, that's a good one. Rock on dude!

Ah, addictive behavior, gotta love it...:-) A bit like the five stages of grief, but postdated.

*sputters* I'll leave that one alone...for now. :p

Does your lady smoke too?

Not anymore. I quit a year ago, and on MY terms, and when *I* wanted to (which is how I wanted to quit).

[ladysycamore]
> Perhaps. You don't know for sure. Just because he wrote
> what he did on that day, doesn't mean he'll be following that
> path FOREVER. I mean, sheesh already!!!

That she doesn't know for sure doesn't mean that she can't answer to something he said. The only thing she can go by are his statements; thus, it'd be nonsensical to assume he'd change his declared 'path'.

[MaggieL]
>> In the meantime, you won't engage on the topic of smoking,
>> because you'd rather play "red herring" about denial.

[ladysycamore]
> OhmyGoddess! LMAOROTF!!! So, now if one doesn't talk
> about a topic, they are in denial...baaahahah, that's a
> good one. Rock on dude!

Between your humorous exclamations, you might want to consider that MaggieL had presented a fairly good argument, which Sycamore mostly ignored. She then replied, warning that the smoking is the biggest threat to his health, a threat which he didn't seem to take too seriously in his previous postings; he didn't really reply her messages either, which made it look like he's either ignoring her. Why could he be ignoring Maggie's personally intense messages, which presented a compelling picture of what smoking can do to you? Either he doesn't really want to face up to the implications of his addiction (i.e. DENIAL), or he doesn't want to talk to MaggieL for some other mysterious reason.

(Sorry for talking for you here, Maggie)... but which one seems more likely, from her point of view? She's obviously very worried about his health, from personal experience, and he seems to be blowing it off. Maybe you want to be less aggressive next time when someone shows genuine concern for your significant other. How often do you have people genuinely *care* ?

[MaggieL]
>> Ah, addictive behavior, gotta love it...:-) A bit like the
>> five stages of grief, but postdated.

[ladysycamore]
> *sputters* I'll leave that one alone...for now.

This is somewhat infantile: 'Although your claim is obviously ridiculous, I will refuse to respond for it... right now. I will come back later and trouce your argument utterly.'

If you deride people's arguments, at least have the decency to back up your claims. How would you feel if I simply wrote: 'bah, you're wrong. I won't even tell you why, but you are. so there' ?

[ladysycamore]
> Not anymore. I quit a year ago, and on MY terms, and
> when *I* wanted to (which is how I wanted to quit)

That's great. When you get off your self-esteem pedestal, you may want to consider that cancer (and all other smoking-related diseases) doesn't care if you quit on *your* terms, or *how* you wanted to quit smoking.

If you smoke, stop doing it. As soon as you can possibly muster the willpower (or not, as MaggieL was implying was the case with Sycamore). Your ego doesn't play a role in how cancer affects you - the faster you stop, the less likely you are to die or to suffer from horrifying, expensive, and painful diseases - or both. The fact that you're letting Sycamore smoke while you stopped doesn't really say a lot about you, either (if it's around you). Passive smoking (and I'm certain you will claim that he never smokes around you) is quite likely to kill you, too. Pity you won't get to satisfy any addiction whilst killing yourself, though.

X.


Links:
http://www.wce.ac.nz/cancer/lifestyles_smokefree/passive.html
http://www.forces.org/evidence/
http://www.helioshealth.com/cgi-bin/news/news.cgi?131
http://www.phonki.clara.net/cleanair/factin.htm
http://www.ash.org.uk/html/publicplaces/html/glasummary.html

Originally, I had written a rather lengthy post as to why I never made a response to Maggie's posts. I happened to think about it later though, and decided that a lengthy post was unnecessary. I read the posts originally, thought about them, and made the decision not to reply to them. Period.

The words an individual speaks (or does not speak) may be the entire basis for one's opinion of said individual on the Cellar. Although the words (or lack thereof) CAN speak volumes, and CAN reveal some of the individual's personality, it is still an incomplete representation.

Gracias. :)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Xugumad
[ladysycamore]
> Perhaps. You don't know for sure. Just because he wrote
> what he did on that day, doesn't mean he'll be following that
> path FOREVER. I mean, sheesh already!!!

That she doesn't know for sure doesn't mean that she can't answer to something he said.

I never said that she could NOT answer. Where in the heck did you see THAT in my statement??

The only thing she can go by are his statements; thus, it'd be nonsensical to assume he'd change his declared 'path'.

So, because of that, there is no "realm of possibility" that he COULD change his
path? That would mean...he'd NEVER quit, so why hound him into quitting in the first
place?

[MaggieL]
>> In the meantime, you won't engage on the topic of smoking,
>> because you'd rather play "red herring" about denial.

[ladysycamore]
> OhmyGoddess! LMAOROTF!!! So, now if one doesn't talk
> about a topic, they are in denial...baaahahah, that's a
> good one. Rock on dude!

Between your humorous exclamations, you might want to consider that MaggieL had presented a fairly good argument, which Sycamore mostly ignored.

And? Ignoring it automatically means denial?

She then replied, warning that the smoking is the biggest threat to his health, a threat which he didn't seem to take too seriously in his previous postings; he didn't really reply her messages either, which made it look like he's either ignoring her.

More ridiculous assmptions. Do YOU talk about, or go into lengthy detail about every, single, solitary issue that coms your way? And, if in the event that he WAS ignoring her...so what? She's not "allowed" to be ignored? (memories of Glenn Close in Fatal Attractionsaying, "I will NOT be ignored!") *laughs* I think not. She.just.doesn't.have.that.kind.of.power.

Why could he be ignoring Maggie's personally intense messages, which presented a compelling picture of what smoking can do to you?

Mmm...maybe because he can? Who the heck knows, and why should anyone CARE??

Either he doesn't really want to face up to the implications of his addiction (i.e. DENIAL), or he doesn't want to talk to MaggieL for some other mysterious reason.

And..how is either reason SO important in the grand scheme of things...really? I'm
curious to find out WHY Sycamore's refusal to address Maggie about smoking is such
an issue (aka, "a big deal").

(Sorry for talking for you here, Maggie)... but which one seems more likely, from her point of view? She's obviously very worried about his health, from personal experience, and he seems to be blowing it off. Maybe you want to be less aggressive next time when someone shows genuine concern for your significant other. How often do you have people genuinely *care* ?

Well, it's obvious that her take on "caring" and my take on it are coming from two different schools of thought. I mean, I didn't know that making bold, arrogant assumptions about one's thought processes and actions was "caring".

[MaggieL]
>> Ah, addictive behavior, gotta love it...:-) A bit like the
>> five stages of grief, but postdated.

[ladysycamore]
> *sputters* I'll leave that one alone...for now.

This is somewhat infantile: 'Although your claim is obviously ridiculous, I will refuse to respond for it... right now. I will come back later and trouce your argument utterly.'

*LOL!* Expressing my First Amendment right is infantile? For crying out loud...I was merely being facetious..or..um..is that not allowed here?

If you deride people's arguments, at least have the decency to back up your claims. How would you feel if I simply wrote: 'bah, you're wrong. I won't even tell you why, but you are. so there' ?

I wouldn't make a federal case about it, I know THAT much. Again: so WHAT? It's
not ruining MY day if that is the statement that you want to make...gads! I have much more important things to be concerned about!

[ladysycamore]
> Not anymore. I quit a year ago, and on MY terms, and
> when *I* wanted to (which is how I wanted to quit)

That's great. When you get off your self-esteem pedestal,

Why on EARTH would I do that? Self-esteem is important. More people should claim it, and use it for their own benefit. Low self esteem is why too many women are in abusive relationships...low self esteem is why people allow others to use them as personal welcome mats and get taken advantage of (in other words, not having the will to stand up for oneself), and so on. So...positive self-esteem is "wrong" to possess? Hey, it's helped me to do many positive things in life, and as a black female in America, I feel that it is important to
have high self-esteem, so I think I will stay on my so-called "self-esteem pedestal" if it will continue to help me through the remainder of my life, thankyouverymuch.

you may want to consider that cancer (and all other smoking-related diseases) doesn't care if you quit on *your* terms, or *how* you wanted to quit smoking.

Okayyyy.....

If you smoke, stop doing it.

Smoke free for over a year now.

As soon as you can possibly muster the willpower (or not, as MaggieL was implying was the case with Sycamore). Your ego doesn't play a role in how cancer affects you - the faster you stop, the less likely you are to die or to suffer from horrifying, expensive, and painful diseases - or both.

That still does not give anyone the license to bug the heck out of someone to get them to quit. I'm SURE that you realize that that tactic doesn't work with everyone.

The fact that you're letting Sycamore smoke while you stopped doesn't really say a lot about you, either (if it's around you).

And what does making assumptions about people's lives say about YOU, dearheart?

Passive smoking (and I'm certain you will claim that he never smokes around you) is quite likely to kill you, too.

LOL, and there's another one. Ok: I'll bite. Are you willing to bet on it? How certain are you? 50%? 70%? 100%? Ah, I love it when people THINK they know you...

Pity you won't get to satisfy any addiction whilst killing yourself, though.

Save your pity for someone who needs it, because I certainly do not...ooo, there's that nasty self-esteem again (slaps wrists). Shame, shame, shame on me!!!



:p

I decided to make my own cheesesteak tonight, so I cobbled the ingredients together:

--One package of Amoroso's rolls
--4 oz. of Provolone cheese
--One package of Landis chicken steak
--Some leftover Quaker King steaks in the freezer
--Ketchup and mayo (already in the fridge)

I lightly toasted the rolls, threw some mayo on them, and then the cheese. Fried up the chicken and beef steaks, ripped them up, and put them on the rolls. Ketchup added last. Absolutely delicious. I must say, I outdid myself. Granted, adding the Quaker King steaks was sacriligious...and they don't exactly taste the best. But it was a pleasant combination overall.

Healthwise: About 750-800 calories for one of these cheesesteaks. Sodium and fat content are low to medium (most of the fat coming from the mayo and beef steak). Cut the beef steak, lighten up on the mayo and ketchup, and you're down to about 500-550...a Big Mac at McDonald's is 590. I would reckon that my version was probably healthier than one I would get at a restaurant...most of them pile on the ketchup and mayo unless you tell them otherwise. If you've had a light lunch or no lunch at all, you're in good shape. :)

Not so.

A 20-second walk from where I live, a deli called 'Sycamore' sells the best sandwich I've ever eaten. It's of course a Philly Cheesesteak.

Coincidence?

I may just bloat to ludicrous dimensions eating only those sandwiches from now on. They're that damn good.

X.


PS: I stepped away from the ladysycamore talk above since it became obvious that emotion and not logic dictated the responses. Better to avoid flames than fan them, methinks. :-)

Originally posted by Xugumad
A 20-second walk from where I live, a deli called 'Sycamore' sells the best sandwich I've ever eaten. It's of course a Philly Cheesesteak.

Really? Now that's funny...where is this at?

Although...if it's not in Philadelphia, it's not a real cheesesteak. ;)

.. ahem. That was rapid. AAAAAAAnyway:


Southwestern Virginia, I'm currently visiting someone here. VT is very close.

The sandwich is incredible, the best I've ever had. I'll provide driving directions and all if people don't believe me ;)

A 12" sandwich is around $6 or so, I think. They make their own bread for it and all.

I just had a 3" sandwich section reheated after it sat in the fridge for 2 days. It was still *very* tasty.

There is a God.

Originally posted by Xugumad

PS: I stepped away from the ladysycamore talk above since it became obvious that emotion and not logic dictated the responses. Better to avoid flames than fan them, methinks. :-)

My statements and questions are just as logical as anyone else's, regardless if they are filled with any emotions. I mean, I AM a human being, not a robot! :mad:

*Pfft* It doesn't matter anyway. The topic was straying anyway. *shrugs*

Cheesesteaks, anyone? :D

Originally posted by Xugumad
The sandwich is incredible, the best I've ever had. I'll provide driving directions and all if people don't believe me ;)

Got a digital camera? We Phluffians can evaluate the karma of the sandwich. We need to know, for example, if it's South Philly or Roxborough style. This is vital!

Undertoad: Yes, I do have a digital camera. I will list the deli's description/ingredient list as well, and take a couple of digital photographs ASAP.

ASAP may be in a few days, though. I am currently on a week-long vegetarian trip. I was quite curious to see what it's like to be vegetarian for a couple of days.

More cheesesteaks updates later.

X.

PS: Ladysycamore - oh dear, that was a bad case of 'I MUST HAVE THE LAST WORD AT ALL COST' ;-) A 'ugogirl!' keychain is being mailed to you as we speak. ]:-)

Originally posted by Undertoad
Got a digital camera? We Phluffians can evaluate the karma of the sandwich. We need to know, for example, if it's South Philly or Roxborough style. This is vital!

Good looking out Tony. I didn't even think about that. Truth be told, I don't think about the regional differences much.

*hangs head in shame*

Originally posted by Undertoad
Got a digital camera? We Phluffians can evaluate the karma of the sandwich. We need to know, for example, if it's South Philly or Roxborough style. This is vital!

Good looking out Tony. I didn't even think about that. Truth be told, I don't think about the regional differences much.

*hangs head in shame*

I'm not going to go revisit the health-impacts-of-addictions subthread...that was ages ago. I made my concerns clear, Syc made his responses. It's old news.

But I did want to pick up on something I've heard a couple times out here lately...citing "First Amendment rights". For pity's sake, there's *no* environment on this planet that's more supportive of free speech than the The Cellar.

But the Cellar tradition has been that (almost) all propositions are subject to debate. If you make a statement, and someone else calls on you to back it up with reasoning or an explanation, waving a free speech flag hasn't cut much ice around here in the past. It isn't that we don't value freedom of speech. Quite the contrary--freedom of speech is a value totally ingrained in the community culture, taken for granted, and usually doesn't even need to be mentioned.

Every one has freedom to make almost any kind of statement here, and they also have freedom of to defend them. Criticisim isn't an attempt to silence here, it usually takes the form of an invitation to amplify. But if the perception is that the speaker is blowing smoke, he or she can expect to hear about *that*, too.

*Commentary* and *criticisim* are protected speech as well...and the suggestion that that commentary or crticisim is intended to silence someone and is thus somehow in violation of their rights would itself seem intended to have a chilling effect on free speech...the notion of "political correctness" is apropos.

Fortunately the Cellar has been immune to that sort of thing so far. Long may it wave.

Originally posted by Xugumad

PS: Ladysycamore - oh dear, that was a bad case of 'I MUST HAVE THE LAST WORD AT ALL COST' ;-) A 'ugogirl!' keychain is being mailed to you as we speak. ]:-)

:rolleyes: Sure dude: I'll send ya my mailing address.

Originally posted by Undertoad


Got a digital camera? We Phluffians can evaluate the karma of the sandwich. We need to know, for example, if it's South Philly or Roxborough style. This is vital!

I am only too happy to oblige. The light conditions were quite poor, which makes it look somewhat unappetizing. Don't let this fool you - that sandwich is one of the best I've ever had.

(2 postings, to attach two files)

X.

Ingredients:
grilled with onions, peppers, melted provolone cheese, on a grilled sub roll, topped with lettuce, tomato, onions, oil/vinegar, spices, mayonnaise.

Opened up:

*Sycamore puts the photos into Paperport, lightens them up, and magnifies them*

Hmmm...it looks like a layer or layers of meat. South Philadelphia style. With the lettuce and tomato, we would call that a "cheesesteak hoagie."

Yeah, right off, if they're not calling this a cheesesteak hoagie, if they're just calling it a "cheesesteak" or "philly cheesesteak", that's points deducted. There is no lettuce, tomato, ungrilled onion on a cheesesteak. Sorry, Syc, there isn't any mayo either. Ketchup may be put on by the eater if they lack basic class. (Which they probably do; that's part of the whole thing.)

They do get points for having found a roll that looks worthy. Grilling the roll is sorta questionable imo, and the way they did it, it looks like it found a grill with some open flames or something. See, what's supposed to happen is that the roll should be opened and laid on top of the grilling meat and cheese, at the last minute, to soak up some of the heat and the flavory goodness.

The meat looks like it hasn't been chopped at all which is the S.Philly style. That's not my preference but it may improve this particular combination.

Good work by you, X, for going the extra mile. Whatever they call it, it does look good.

Originally posted by Undertoad
Sorry, Syc, there isn't any mayo either. Ketchup may be put on by the eater if they lack basic class. (Which they probably do; that's part of the whole thing.)

There's mayo on there. You can see it next to the tomato.

Generally, I would never think of using ketchup with chicken, but on a chicken cheesesteak...*drools*

The meat looks like it hasn't been chopped at all which is the S.Philly style. That's not my preference but it may improve this particular combination.

I prefer the chopped up style as well. The best chopping I've ever seen is at Jimmy's on Ridge Ave. in Roxborough.

What I meant to say is, there isn't any mayo on a real cheesesteak. Not that I wouldn't rule it out for my own personal sandwich. (This month I would though, I'm losing weight)

Originally posted by Undertoad
What I meant to say is, there isn't any mayo on a real cheesesteak. Not that I wouldn't rule it out for my own personal sandwich. (This month I would though, I'm losing weight)

Really? I'm showing my rookieness on the subject then...but I *do* love mayo. ;)

When I become rich and famous in a few years (ha!), one of the things I am going to invest in is a cheesesteak franchising operation. Rolls will be flown in from Philadelphia weekly, if not daily. I'll even hire real Philadelphians to work in them ("Hey! Youse guys see that Iggles game Sunday?").

I think I would open my first shop in Chicago...maybe on W. 63rd near Midway. I don't know if north Chicagoans would truly appreciate such a sandwich.

Then I would open up one in St. Louis...probably on South Grand. It would add to the mix of unique cuisines there. On second thought, maybe on the Italian Hill...it would fit in better there...and I could give Southwest Market a run for their money.

I'd probably move on to Baltimore next...Highlandtown area (HB, you interested?). Then Queens, Cleveland, etc. The restaurants would have to be in "high-character" areas. :)

Originally posted by Undertoad
There is no lettuce, tomato, ungrilled onion on a cheesesteak. Sorry, Syc, there isn't any mayo either. Ketchup may be put on by the eater if they lack basic class... See, what's supposed to happen is that the roll should be opened and laid on top of the grilling meat and cheese, at the last minute, to soak up some of the heat and the flavory goodness.

Ketchup can be used as a *emergency* substitute for proper tomato sauce, as might be used on a pizza. Some might argue that the result would constitute a pizzasteak; I won't quibble.

But ketchup really has too much sugar in it; cheesesteak. sauce should be spicy, not sweet. And mayo is right out. If you're lusting for mayo while eating a cheesesteak, it's not greasy enough. Oops...I mean, it lacks "flavory goodness". :-)

Heh. It's funny that you read it wrong, but I still read it right. I guess it goes back to whether or not you've been made stupid by your addiction to cigarettes. (it was a JOKE! think tw's post! yeesh!) :)

As far as shops - you farthead. Open one in Fairfax! Everyone around here appreciates good food - witness Busara, etc. Plus, there's be a lot of people around here. If not Fairfax, at least like DC. Baltimore should come after some place that's closer to me. I still haven't had a philly cheesesteak!

However, it's worth nothing that the guy that used to be downstairs (he got fired) did 'em like that - cheese, onions, peppers, steak, bun stuck on at the last minute... I liked it. Definitely very tasty.

Okay... we've settled the mayonnaise question. But, while we're on the subject of cheesesteak ingredients, let's settle this one once and for all:

[SIZE=3]Cheez Wiz: Culinary Abomination? Or Nectar of the Gods?[/SIZE]

Let's get quibbling!

Originally posted by dhamsaic
As far as shops - you farthead. Open one in Fairfax! Everyone around here appreciates good food - witness Busara, etc. Plus, there's be a lot of people around here. If not Fairfax, at least like DC. Baltimore should come after some place that's closer to me. I still haven't had a philly cheesesteak!

Baltimore--you have to go to Highlandtown...along Eastern Ave. on the east side of the city. It just screams character.

Fairfax--absolutely not. Not enough character. Except for you.

Washington--hmmm...maybe...over in Brookland, near Catholic University.

Originally posted by Hubris Boy
cheez wiz

I say nay...good for cheese sandwiches, not good for cheesesteaks. Pat's uses it by default. I think Geno's does too. I prefer Provolone or White American.

Agreed. This is another problem with the original downtown steaks. Whiz is an abomination and perhaps the only way to really make a cheesesteak more unhealthy. I'm sure they do it to save money.

Jim's offers Wiz as an option... and boy, you'd better know what you want when you get to the head of the line, or you'll face the wrath of the guy behind the grill.

I'm a provolone kind of guy, myself. But sometimes... sometimes... Cheez Wiz scratches the itch in a way that nothing else can!

Ah, all about character.

Well damn. What kind of character? What about boring, rich people character? That's some kind of character, isn't it? :)

Actually, I was thinking it would be cool to buy an area of land and put a couple awesome restaurants on it - some Thai/Japanese, some Mexican, some good Italian and something else. Really nice places - all trendy looking and shit. One could probably make a decent buck if they had the area right, 'cause it would be in an environment that people wanted to be in - it'd have "character", if you will. However, I think the problem would be...

traffic. People always want to go to places that have character. Except that the traffic is bad. So they settle for McDonalds. So maybe people wouldn't go to my place that has character. :(

Originally posted by Hubris Boy
Jim's offers Wiz as an option... and boy, you'd better know what you want when you get to the head of the line, or you'll face the wrath of the guy behind the grill.

That sounds like the guy down at Philip's. He looks like he's going to hop out the window sometimes.

I'm a provolone kind of guy, myself. But sometimes... sometimes... Cheez Wiz scratches the itch in a way that nothing else can!

To me, it's just too messy. The grease is bad enough, then you add wiz on top of it...that's TOO much. :)

To the Philadelphians that have been here longer than me...what the hell is a gizmo? I keep seeing it on menus at restaurants here in the NE, but always forget to ask what they are.

Hubris, I give up. Babelfish was no help. What does your title say?

I actually prefer cheddar on a cheesesteak. I find its flavor to be exactly what I'm looking for. Provolone isn't too bad either, and American is good. But for me, it's cheddar that hits the spot.

However, what I'd really like to have is <b>Havarti</b> on a cheesesteak. I bet that'd be awesome. Havarti is, in the opinion of this cheese lover, <b>the</b> best cheese. It's got a great taste, and I think it would go really well on a cheesesteak.

Anyone ever had havarti on a cheesesteak? Any insight on how it was?

I think with Havarti, I'd just want a kinda bare-minimum cheesesteak - steak, havarti, onions and peppers - no ketchup or tomato sauce or mayo (though I love mayo on a cheesesteak). Gotta agree with Maggie that ketchup is just too sweet for a cheesesteak, though.

Anyway... thoughts on havarti?

Originally posted by dhamsaic
Ah, all about character.

Well damn. What kind of character? What about boring, rich people character? That's some kind of character, isn't it? :)

Maybe in your book. :) Most suburbs are too antiseptic for my liking.

Now Falls Church...THAT would get some consideration. It's quaint...has some character.

...AND it's only 2 Metro stops down from me. Score! :)

Isn't the Wing Bowl happening in Philly today?

Originally posted by sycamore
To the Philadelphians that have been here longer than me...what the hell is a gizmo?

Are you possibly referring to <i>gyros</i>? They are a very close cousin to souvlaki

Originally posted by Griff
Isn't the Wing Bowl happening in Philly today?

Apparently.

Yes, Wing Bowl happened this morning.

For the outtatowners, Wing Bowl is an annual wing-eating contest held by the local sports radio station. This was the tenth year of it. Started quite small, now it fills an entire arena with fans, for an event where the doors open at 5:30 a.m.

I believe it was won by the favorite, "El Wingadore". I didn't follow it that closely, but the radio is on when I make my morning coffee...

Say what you want, but there is some kind of really weird charm about this. I know a lot of people would find it to be uncomfortably like that asdfasdf image, another contrived opportunity for a bunch of thick-headed guys to act like morons.

It's a non-event event, like pro wrestling. Full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

But there's a different feel about this one, somehow... as if it transcended into performance art for the common man. And it's definitely Philly. If it happened anywhere else, it just wouldn't play.

Originally posted by MaggieL


Are you possibly referring to <i>gyros</i>? They are a very close cousin to souvlaki

Gyros are awesome. It's just disappointing that the person that made that page referred to it as "sadziki" sauce. Tzatziki (pronounced "tuhzeeky") is the proper spelling.

Originally posted by dhamsaic


Gyros are awesome. It's just disappointing that the person that made that page referred to it as "sadziki" sauce. Tzatziki (pronounced "tuhzeeky") is the proper spelling.

<i>The Alex Charalabidis Guide to Souvlaki</i> (further down the page in the blue box) spells it the way you like. Also note that while a Greek speaker will pronounce the word YEE-roh, many, if not most, restaurant employees in the Fluffia area will not know what you mean unless you say JYE-roh, as in the short name for the instrument stabilized by the angular momentum of a massy spinning wheel.

I call an official Cellar cheesesteak munch for the second or third week of February.

I will be visiting town then and would like to meet more than ONE Cellar-dweller this time!

The place, date and time is up to general consensus.

There. I said it!

Brian

Originally posted by MaggieL

<i>The Alex Charalabidis Guide to Souvlaki</i> (further down the page in the blue box) spells it the way you like. Also note that while a Greek speaker will pronounce the word YEE-roh, many, if not most, restaurant employees in the Fluffia area will not know what you mean unless you say JYE-roh, as in the short name for the instrument stabilized by the angular momentum of a massy spinning wheel.

Indeed, which makes me look like a fucking idiot when I actually say YEE-roh, and they go "HUH?" and I have to say "JYE-roh. Give me a fucking JYE-roh, you uncultured savage." Then I have to leave, because they'll probably spit in my food.

Originally posted by BrianR
I call an official Cellar cheesesteak munch for the second or third week of February.

I'm for it.

I'm coming into town the third week of Feb (looks like a weeks' delay here for moving and such).

Maggie, I'll meet you wherever you want as long as they have good cheesesteaks.

Everyone else can go piddle up a rope. I'm going to enjoy my visit anyway!

Brian

I guess no one else reads this forum or wants to go munch with me.

What and where will it be, girl?

Or we can do Timothy's ribs. They're to die for. Or so I remember.

I'm open, and easy ;)

Originally posted by BrianR

What and where will it be, girl?

You can plan that far ahead? OK...worst case is I'll still be unemployed when you're up here, so we can go almost anywhere anytime. I'd initially say Amadeo's Too for steaks, or Micheal's Deli for hoagies....both being convenient to me.

And also to Tony, as I recall, but *he* has a job, of course. :-)

C'mon peeps...voice preferences, or it will be a Schulkyll Valley munch by default.

I'm merely anti-social.

He is, that.

And yes, I can. With reasonable certainty.

I leave Florida this Friday, stay for a few days in VA with friends, then make my way north
to the frozen tundra that I have come to think of as PA.

Yes, that was a weather dig. Obligatory for me nowadays. I've been leaving my windows open
and wearing shorts and tee shirts for two weeks. Winter is over and spring has sprung.
I'll miss the weather here, except for a distinct lact of VFR. I'll never again fly to Atlanta over a
long weekend and take for granted that I can fly back again.

Anyway. Since I'm not familiar with those places, I'll need more locator data than just a name.

Brian

I will be offline for a few days during my relocation process.

I may be able to log on just to check email, but maybe not.

Voice contact will work better.

Numbers to find me by request.

Mitch Parker has my numbers and will give them to whomever asks nicely.

Otherwise, see you all real soon!

Brian

I had one the other night...

Santucci's--Knights Road Shopping Center at Knights and Woodhaven Rds.: I ordered a chicken cheesesteak and got a regular one. $5. It was alright...greasy enough, with just enough ketchup and mayo. It made me stomach sick later in the evening. Not sure if it was stress or a bad sandwich...I've had one from there before and it was pretty decent. (Incidentally, they have damned good pizza too.)

Originally posted by sycamore
I had one the other night...
It was alright...greasy enough, with just enough ketchup and mayo. It made me stomach sick later in the evening. Not sure if it was stress or a bad sandwich...

Well, of course it was the *mayo*. :-)

I used to live near Philly, in Wilmington, DE. I went to Abilene's downtown every week or so to see a band called Love Syndicate. Has anyone seen them (recently, or, at all)? If so, drop me a line, I'd like to know how they're doing. I know they're from the Wayne, PA area, and they used to host open mic night at the Gryphon in said town. Any help would be appreciated.

p.s., I know this is kind of random, but, the first night I saw them, I had my first cheesesteak ever, and it was GREAT! (I'm from MN and have returned there now, and can't get a good one to save my life)

Originally posted by middlefunger
I used to live near Philly, in Wilmington, DE. I went to Abilene's downtown every week or so to see a band called Love Syndicate. Has anyone seen them (recently, or, at all)?

Evidently they still exist, are still performing, and are cutting a studio album: http://www.lovesyndicate.com

My God, I had my worst cheesesteak ever yesterday.

The location for this travesty was the cafeteria inside my office building in Fort Washington, PA. The food is so-so and overpriced. But, when you really need a bite to eat and forgot your lunch at home, it's there for you.

I immediately had low expectations for this cheesesteak, given that it was in our cafeteria. But even those meager hopes were dashed by this...thing.

I've seen some finely chopped steak in my short cheesesteak connoisseurship. But I suspect that this chicken was thrown in a blender on the "puree" setting. It wouldn't surprise me if it was that potted chicken that you buy in the store. (No...not THAT kind of pot. ;) )

So, you just get the bun, chicken, and cheese. The bun was actually decent. Nice and warm, with no sogginess. I add my own ketchup and mayo, which may have made this particular steak edible.

$3.35 for said steak...and it was small. Maybe that was a good thing for this poor excuse called food.

Villagio Pizza & Restaurant--9233 Frankford Ave. in NE Philadelphia: Villagio took the spot previously occupied by Pizzadelphia, which closed shop last summer.

A menu made its way to my door this past week, so I decided to sample their fare last night. First off, their service wasn't very good...the order taker seemed less than interested in taking my order. Then, they couldn't find my apartment. I won't hold that against them though...our complex is a bit confusing. I'm sure they'll figure it out if they stay in business long enough.

Now, to the cheesesteak--a buffalo chicken steak, with buffalo sauce and bleu cheese dressing. $4.95. The chicken was quite good--it tasted as if it had been marinated. It was chunked, much like Ishkabibble's on South St. It probably could have used a bit more cheese, dressing, and sauce though. On the whole, it was alright. I'd probably order one from them again.

chicken
mayo
buffalo sauce
bleu cheese dressing

"Oh, tempora! O mores!" :-)

Originally posted by MaggieL
chicken
mayo
buffalo sauce
bleu cheese dressing

No mayo. Adding that to the dressing would have been overkill, IMO.

Originally posted by sycamore


No mayo. Adding that to the dressing would have been overkill, IMO.

I was just enumerating and (tongue-in-cheek) bemoaning the unorthodox ingredients in a sandwich you persist in calling a "cheesesteak". :-)

I'm enough of a purist to consider mayo to be heresy. I guess once we start calling a sandwich with *chicken* in it a "chicken cheesesteak" all is lost anyway. How about a "salmon cheese steak"? After all, there *are* salmon steaks. I don't think I've ever seen chicken steaks.

This may go far in suggesting that the defining characteristics of a cheesesteak may be:

1) melted cheese (hopefully not bleu cheese), and
2) the *bread*, which must be a small Italian loaf supplied by a Mafia-owned business and
3) No vegetables besides onions (and in reform congregations, peppers)

This points up the futility of getting a cheesesteak outside of Philly, or for that matter, getting a real hoagie, since they are properly built on the same rolls, apparently only available in Philly and environs. Given the proposed definition above, a hoagie misses being a cheesteak only by virtue of having unmelted cheese, and various vegetable violations. Thus, a grinder is an even nearer miss, because it's cheese *is* melted...and a cheesesteak hoagie is still in vegetable trouble, which is why the adjective is "cheesesteak" and the noun "hoagie"; it cannont be a "hoagie cheesesteak", but rather a hoagie *containing * a cheesesteak.

But it's not a real cheesesteak. Cheesesteaks *are* a real religion, though. :-)

So, I was at the cart at the SE corner of 5th and Market in Old City Philadelphia yesterday, getting one of their fabulous cheesesteaks that make me drool. (And a cheesesteak and 24oz. soda for $5 is a hell of a deal.)

There was a family there that ordered after me...they appeared to be tourists (which wouldn't be much of a stretch, given that Independence Hall is across the street). The mother ordered a chicken salad hoagie, and the grandmother a cheesesteak. Two guys work in this little cart, and they appear to be immigrants (since they converse in another language and have accents, but who really knows?). Anyway...the one guy looks at the grandmother and asks, "What do you want on your cheesesteak?"

Grandmother: "I'd like onions on it."

As the guy prepares to put the mustard on the bun, he looks at the mother and says, "Okay, so you wanted mustard and onions on it?"

Mother: "Oh no! I want lettuce on it."

Cart Nazi: *appears irritated* "Why did you just say that you wanted mustard on it?"

Mother: "I thought you were asking about the cheesesteak."

Cart Nazi: "No! I was asking about the chicken salad hoagie...so you want lettuce?"

Mother: "Yes."

Cart Nazi: *reiterates previous statement* "I was originally asking about the chicken salad hoagie."

Mother: *now appears irritated* "Well, we'll deal with it!"

Yes, the cart guy clearly fucked up here. And he looks eerily similar to the Soup Nazi from Seinfeld. I thought he was going to throw the hoagie away and yell, "No hoagie for you!"

From here on out, I dub the gentleman with the mustache in the cart on the SE corner of 5th and Market in Old City Philadelphia Cart Nazi. :)

'Round up in these parts, nothing beats
<a href="http://www.texadelphia.com"></a>

Can't go wrong if you order double meat, either. :D

*goes to the Texadelphia site*

Mozzarella on a steak...what a crock of shit. I am no longer going to sit idly by while you infect us with your b.s. from Texas. I'M TAKING A STAND! ;)

(Seriously, it sounds interesting, especially the sauces. I'll have to check that place out if I'm ever down that way. :) )

CRAPPY CHEESE STEAK ALERT

The Ultimate Deli--Grant Ave. and Academy Rd., NE Philadelphia: First off, I placed my order at 9:10pm and they close at 10...plenty of time. I was told my order would arrive in 30-45 minutes, which is the standard response from most places. Now, this place is less than 2 miles from my house, so I figured it would be closer to 30 minutes. So we waited...for over an hour. Our food finally arrived at 10:15pm.

I ordered a bacon cheese steak and onion rings. The onion rings were soggy as fuck and cold. The steak was tasteless and rubbery and not packed with enough meat to my satisfaction. I could have bought a couple of 40s with my $5 instead of that damned steak. I hereby officially place this restaurant on my shitlist.

This reminds me of a song...

"When I get mad, and I get pissed
I grab my pen and I write out a list
Of all the people that won't be missed
You've made my shitlist."
--L7

:)

Let's see. Quality cheesesteaks in the Philly burbs:

* The John's Pizza empire. (For the uninitiated, John's Pizza in Frazer, Mike's Pizza in West Chester, Mr. Pizza in Edgmont, Berwyn Pizza in Berwyn and Roger's Bistro in Exton are all the same family.) John's is the original, on Route 30 just past the Home Depot. Awesome food, with John himself (a classy curmudgeon) working the register most of the time.

* I mentioned Drexel Hill Style Pizza in Broomall (West Chester Pike & Route 320) once before, but I'll do it again. Royal Steak (two kinds of cheese, onions, peppers, mushrooms and sauce) is the steak of choice, but nothing on the menu is bad.

* K & G Pizzeria in West Chester (West Chester Pike & Five Points Road) has good cheesesteaks that are less greasy than the norm.

And considerably out of the Philly burbs:

* Billuchio's, "home of the Billy cheese steak," in the Lycoming Mall near Muncy, PA (between Williamsport and Bloomsburg). Amoroso's rolls, nice atmosphere (Mafia-related movie posters are everywhere), and a teriyaki-barbeque sauce that defies description but really WORKS, surprisingly enough. Get the Teriyaki Steak with onions, peppers, provolone and a little marinara, and you're ready to rock.

I can second the motion on Berywn Pizza....been there done that, very good.

Vito's in King Of Prussia is also very good with both cheesesteaks and hoagies, but almost impossible to find unless you're a native. But if you 're in the area, call them up; they deliver.

my favorite sandwich and steak shop outside of Phila, Pudge's in Blue Bell.
They have another branch now but I forget where.

Fat sandwiches and steaks and reasonable prices. Voted Best of Philly at least once but I forget when.

Brian

Pudge's II is on Ridge after the Egypt Rd fork as you are coming out of Norristown. It is not as good as Pudge's I. Both specialize in the chopped/integrated/Roxborough style.

Avoid at all costs the place in Reading Terminal Market!

Originally posted by Undertoad
Pudge's II is on Ridge after the Egypt Rd fork as you are coming out of Norristown.

You mean "as you are driving through Jeffersonville". :-)

If you're there looking for steaks, might as well go to "Amadeos Too". Baldini's (across the street at Schyulkyll) is decent also.

Joe's on US 30 in Wayne.

I used to work in St Davids and get steaks from there occasionally; I miss them.

Originally posted by sycamore
*goes to the Texadelphia site*
Mozzarella on a steak...what a crock of shit. I am no longer going to sit idly by while you infect us with your b.s. from Texas. I'M TAKING A STAND! ;)
(Seriously, it sounds interesting, especially the sauces. I'll have to check that place out if I'm ever down that way. :) )

Don't knock it 'til you try it, Chief. Like I said, double meat's the way to go.

The cheesesteak project

How they scored

I really have to wonder who they found to give the highest marks to steaks that contain spinach and broccoli rabe. That's just so wrong. If I wanted vegetables, I would have ordered a cheesesteak hoagie.

They did three steaks from each place. Cheesesteak (onions + American or Wiz), chicken cheesesteak, and the place's specialty steak. That last category is where you get the weird green crap.

Philadelphia magazine did their "Best Of" issue last month. For cheesesteaks, they gave the best award to Lorenzo's at 9th and Christian, and Chink's on Torresdale Ave. in Wissinoming. Never been to either, so I might have to check them out.

The readers picked Pat's as best...*shakes his head and does his best Joey Tribiani voice* WHY GOD, WHY?!

Tony, you'll be pleased to know that the White House Sub Shop in AC got best hoagie.

I want one. Now.

I'll be coming up again soon. And I'm stopping at Pat's first thing.
I miss a good, greasy cheesesteak. Lorenzo's is also a good choice. I've converted more than one skeptic there.

Didn't I read an article in the Inky about some teenagers who embarked on a quest to identify the best cheesesteak in the area for a school report or project or some such? And where they found a good pork sandwich in the process? Somewhere near Oregon and I-95 I think it was. Anyone remember?

Brian

Originally posted by BrianR
Didn't I read an article in the Inky about some teenagers who embarked on a quest to identify the best cheesesteak in the area for a school report or project or some such? And where they found a good pork sandwich in the process? Somewhere near Oregon and I-95 I think it was. Anyone remember?

See Nic's link on page 9 of this thread. :)

Thank you. I knew I read that article somewhere.

I'm going to keep the link since I'm bringing a friend and his son with me the next time I come up and I want to give them a good cheesesteak, but I disagree with their opinion of Pat's. I love Pat's. Or maybe it's just that I spend my first few years just two blocks up the street? Nah!

Brian

I don't know how you can eat that slop. ;)

Seriously though, to each his own. I personally don't like the steak itself from there. Too rubbery and fatty. I don't care a whole lot for Geno's either, but I'll take them over Pat's. If I get a day off, I DO want to try that place down on Snyder Ave. (or Oregon Ave., or wherever that place is in South Philly).

Coming in next weekend. I'll have a friend and maybe his son (if we can't get a babysitter)
to eat good food and see the sights. The kid'll like the Mutter Museum and the Franklin Institute.
Dad will like other things that are geared to adults.

Anyone who wants to do a Cellar GTG someplace with good food and maybe good drinks too is invited to voice their vote for discussion. Never forget Timothy's on the Main Line has decent ribs!

Brian

If anyone is down in Delaware (*shudder*) and you want a kickass burger and malt, drop by The Charcoal Pit. There's one north on 52 (which is an exit off of I95) and is only about 20 minutes south of downtown Philly.

I hope you enjoy.

And then you can head back on 202 and stop by the only Krispy Kreme in 100 miles.

Originally posted by Undertoad
And then you can head back on 202 and stop by the only Krispy Kreme in 100 miles.

Not for long though. The new one at Cottman and Bustleton opens November 7th. You give me a holler, and we'll grab some donuts and coffee.

See? SEE!

As soon as I leave town the talk picks back up.

Next time I'm not telling anyone I'm coming...I just will show up in town and you may see me at your favorite watering hole and I will ignore you!

BLEAH!

Brian

FoodTV does Philly. The Best Of.
I think I might have to make a road trip. Pat's looked pretty good.
"Ah, yea, gimme a cheese wit'."

Two words: "Pat's sucks." :)

If you must have a South Philly cheesesteak, go with Geno's (across the street from Pat's) or Philip's (on Passyunk and 24th).

Originally posted by sycamore
Two words: "Pat's sucks." :)

What made them pick Pat's? Is it an historical place, or do you think they were given a little persuasion after Pat saw them at Geno's?

The official name of Pat's is "Pat's King of Steaks," which should give you some idea...it's been around about 700 years. The true locals (Shepps, Maggie, etc.) would probably better know the history behind cheesesteak development in Philadelphia.

I used to work down the street from the two places shortly after I moved to Philadelphia. I found Pat's steaks to have a bit too much fat...the steak was tough and rubbery. Geno's isn't that much better IMO, but it has a better taste. Everybody and their mom has eaten at Geno's (with the photos to prove it)...I dunno if Pat's has the same deal or not.

Truth be told, you can get a steak almost anywhere in the Philadelphia area. As you continue to consume them, you learn the difference between South Philly and Roxborough styles, the places that have been around for ages (like Pat's and Geno's), and where your personal preferences lie. I tend to favor a Roxborough-style steak, and generally go with chicken, though Maggie will shun me for it. :)

Originally posted by sycamore
I tend to favor a Roxborough-style steak, and generally go with chicken, though Maggie will shun me for it. :)

I just don't think it should be called a cheesesteak. It's not a cheesesteak unless there's beef in it.

Originally posted by MaggieL

I just don't think it should be called a cheesesteak. It's not a cheesesteak unless there's beef in it.

It probably shouldn't be called a cheesesteak if there's no cheese in it either. I saw that Pat's uses Cheez-Whiz, which has always seemed to be a very malleable plastic to me. Though I do guess it's alright if you smother it with greasy beef.

Whiz is the standard at some places (like Geno's), unless you specify otherwise. Most of the places I frequent use white American or provolone.

Originally posted by blowmeetheclown
It probably shouldn't be called a cheesesteak if there's no cheese in it either. I saw that Pat's uses Cheez-Whiz, which has always seemed to be a very malleable plastic to me. Though I do guess it's alright if you smother it with greasy beef.

With enough grease it goes down OK. There is a satellite branch of Pat's in the building where I worked at my first job (Wayne and Chelten Aves.) ....I probably should say "was"; I've no clue as to whether it's still there; this was back in 1972. You do get used to the Cheese-Whiz, and it's not really bad. Provolone is my preference, though.