They are only words.

Griff • Dec 16, 2017 10:09 am
[YOUTUBE]mUvdXxhLPa8[/YOUTUBE]



The words that hurt your President's feelings are “vulnerable,” “entitlement,” “diversity,” “transgender,” “fetus,” “evidence-based” and “science-based.”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/cdc-gets-list-of-forbidden-words-fetus-transgender-diversity/2017/12/15/f503837a-e1cf-11e7-89e8-edec16379010_story.html
BigV • Dec 16, 2017 10:38 am
Well played!

BRAVO!
fargon • Dec 16, 2017 12:57 pm
Like.
Undertoad • Dec 16, 2017 1:11 pm
article paywalled did not read
Griff • Dec 16, 2017 1:26 pm
Here is a chunk.

by Lena H. Sun and Juliet Eilperin December 15 at 6:53 PM

The Trump administration is prohibiting officials at the nation’s top public health agency from using a list of seven words or phrases — including “fetus” and “transgender” — in official documents being prepared for next year’s budget.

Policy analysts at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta were told of the list of forbidden words at a meeting Thursday with senior CDC officials who oversee the budget, according to an analyst who took part in the 90-minute briefing. The forbidden words are “vulnerable,” “entitlement,” “diversity,” “transgender,” “fetus,” “evidence-based” and “science-based.”

In some instances, the analysts were given alternative phrases. Instead of “science-based” or *“evidence-based,” the suggested phrase is “CDC bases its recommendations on science in consideration with community standards and wishes,” the person said. In other cases, no replacement words were immediately offered.

The Department of Health and Human Services, which oversees the CDC, “will continue to use the best scientific evidence available to improve the health of all Americans,” HHS spokesman Matt Lloyd told The Washington Post. “HHS also strongly encourages the use of outcome and evidence data in program evaluations and budget decisions.”

The question of how to address such issues as sexual orientation, gender identity and abortion rights — all of which received significant visibility under the Obama administration — has surfaced repeatedly in federal agencies since President Trump took office. Several key departments — including HHS, as well as Justice, Education, and Housing and Urban Development — have changed some federal policies and how they collect government information about lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender Americans.
Undertoad • Dec 16, 2017 1:32 pm
good lord
Undertoad • Dec 16, 2017 1:48 pm
Best non-paywalled version of story i could find

http://ktla.com/2017/12/16/word-ban-at-cdc-includes-vulnerable-fetus-and-transgender-at-trump-administrations-request-report/
Griff • Dec 16, 2017 2:04 pm
I keep watching the DC circus trying to figure out what actually matters. This one actually might, although we've got to to credit them with the elimination of vulnerable populations, that is progress.
Undertoad • Dec 16, 2017 2:12 pm
Image
sexobon • Dec 16, 2017 2:24 pm
They can just go back and replace the words with their definitions:

"This medication can be used to improve viability of the fetus."

becomes,

This medication can be used to improve viability of the *unborn offspring, from the embryo stage (the end of the eighth week after conception, when the major structures have formed) until birth.*

The CDC will have to get software that converts the banned words to phrases; or, the employees will take longer to spell it all out. Either way, the public can fault Trump for increasing costs.
xoxoxoBruce • Dec 16, 2017 9:33 pm
I had no trouble with the link. I get the biggest concern is in the writing of budget proposals submitted so some schmuck in the congress or administration isn't offended and kill appropriations in spite.
Griff • Dec 17, 2017 8:33 am
Researchers, and citizen's for that matter, will have to use clumsy search terms to get at information. This is meant to slow peoples use of information. It makes us dumber and less effective.
Undertoad • Dec 17, 2017 9:46 am
NY Times story gives additional context (yet another paywall, sorry)

The Times confirmed some details of the report with several officials, although a few suggested that the proposal was not so much a ban on words but recommendations to avoid some language to ease the path toward budget approval by Republicans.
...
"They’re saying not to use it in your request for money because it will hurt you. It’s not about censoring what C.D.C. can say to the American public. It’s about a budget strategy to get funded."


How "Trumpy" are these officials, really, if the intention is to get a bigger budget for the agency to do things the administration doesn't approve of?

AT MOST it was red on red crime from the Agency looking for its budget from Congress; which makes it interesting, but not at all surprising, not really all that damning, not really even NEWS. If it had been during the O administration, the facts would have been i-fuckin-dentical because that's how the budget works, you have to get stuff past the more idiotic Repubs in Congress. But you wouldn't click on that. S'boring.

Actual news story: CDC preens its 2018 budget proposals to get them passed in Congress

Story's presented narrative: Trump administration officials are Orwellian

if you assume the Post is harshly administration, you get closer to the truth, a truth you need even if you are anti-administration.

UT's 15-year running moral: Politics makes you stupid.
xoxoxoBruce • Dec 17, 2017 10:03 am
The Times confirmed some details of the report with several officials, although a few suggested that the proposal was not so much a ban on words but recommendations to avoid some language to ease the path toward budget approval by Republicans.
...
"They’re saying not to use it in your request for money because it will hurt you. It’s not about censoring what C.D.C. can say to the American public. It’s about a budget strategy to get funded."

That's what I got from the original link, as I said in post 11.
Undertoad • Dec 17, 2017 10:05 am
As usual xoB has it sussed...


btw it wasn't paywalled for you because you hadn't clicked on enough WaPo stories yet... don't know what the limit is...
tw • Dec 17, 2017 10:30 am
Undertoad;1000339 wrote:
don't know what the limit is...

I believe the Washington Post and NY Times is 10 articles per month. Both now have an executive whose entire job is to best define this number. The concept is called funneling.
xoxoxoBruce • Dec 17, 2017 10:33 am
I clear cookies several times a day.
Undertoad • Dec 17, 2017 10:35 am
K. I just used incognito browsing to bypass and the original article does indeed mention the budget process a lot.
Griff • Dec 18, 2017 6:58 am
nutter aisle 3
Gravdigr • Dec 18, 2017 3:54 pm
They are only words.


Words can strike as hard as a blow.
classicman • Dec 19, 2017 11:05 pm
No words banned ...
xoxoxoBruce • Dec 19, 2017 11:29 pm
We had determined the seven words were suggested not to be used in budget proposals.
Griff • Dec 20, 2017 7:40 am
Yeah, it's to help pass the gatekeepers who are not reality based.
Happy Monkey • Dec 20, 2017 9:46 am
It's like spelling "B-A-T-H" in front of the dog so it doesn't run away.
Flint • Dec 20, 2017 6:02 pm
So everything turned out okay! All it was was a science agency can't get funded in America, 2017 if they're suspected of doing "evidence-based" things. No biggie there.
xoxoxoBruce • Dec 21, 2017 12:25 am
It proves continuity, which should provide some relief from the chaos which abounds. :rolleyes:
DanaC • Dec 21, 2017 5:27 am
Flint;1000555 wrote:
So everything turned out okay! All it was was a science agency can't get funded in America, 2017 if they're suspected of doing "evidence-based" things. No biggie there.


Yup. Nothing to see here.
Undertoad • Dec 21, 2017 7:47 am
Well, politics is political... this is how the sausage is made
footfootfoot • Dec 21, 2017 12:41 pm
Gravdigr;1000437 wrote:
Words can strike as hard as a blow.


I've yet to have a satisfying wordjob.

Just sayin'...


:lol:
Gravdigr • Dec 21, 2017 1:37 pm
I didn't say "as good as"...

:lol2:
Flint • Dec 22, 2017 1:10 pm
DanaC;1000581 wrote:
Yup. Nothing to see here.

Anyhoo, the stock market keeps going up, up, up! This is great--because stock markets *never* crash!
Undertoad • Dec 22, 2017 1:22 pm
All it was was a science agency can't get funded in America, 2017 if they're suspected of doing "evidence-based" things.


Another way to look at this is, you can make people fund things they specifically disagree with, as long as your request contains the right language.
Flint • Dec 22, 2017 1:24 pm
I'm still taken aback by the suggestion that funding decisions are based on a ctrl+f search.

I thought they had an army of lobbyists, can't they read things?
Undertoad • Dec 22, 2017 1:36 pm
Flint;1000670 wrote:
Anyhoo, the stock market keeps going up, up, up! This is great--because stock markets *never* crash!


The Buddhists say, when things that seem negative are happening, there are always positive things too, if we care to look at them. For example, when pussy grabber announced he could grab pussy it was horrible, but also, started a national* discussion* of agreement* that this was wrong*, and re-affirmed a set of values that one expects will last for generations.

And so, from that Buddhist perspective: if you don't like your reality, you have the power to change it. You can easily find the good within the bad. It is there all the time.

Without personal judgement, I say, you seem bent on the opposite approach, focused on mining the negative. We all are these days; it's how it works, now. The news is a concern engine, forging headlines that freak everyone the fuck out. Armageddon, just around the corner.

But I bet the Buddhists are having a good day.




*if you're quibbling with these words, you're not invested enough to get the larger point; step back, please.
Flint • Dec 22, 2017 2:40 pm
I'll quibble with your face, buster.

Observation, perspective: All signs indicate that when Republicans get in power, they aggressively push for a certain agenda, but when Democrats get back in power, for all the lamenting about how the Republican agenda was going to ruin the world, they don't push back equally as hard. It's like they're not trying to win. Or...? The doomsday talk (about what Republicans are doing) was more about 'making the opposition look bad', and less about 'what they were actually willing to do about it'.

From this angle, it looks pretty similar to when the Republicans spent 8 years complaining about Obamacare, but actually had no plan whatsoever for healthcare. Like, all the doomsday talk about Democrats was about 'making the opposition look bad'. I say we disregard anything either one of them says about the other, unless they have a record of actually addressing that issue with equal intensity as their opponent did.

After applying the 'doomsday filter' --the issues that both parties fail at are the most legitimate issues. Unfortunately, this is a useless exercise, because there's only two parties, and the deluge of money pouring into politics ensures there will always only be two parties, endlessly quibbling about symbolic issues while the fundamental problems with our civilization go unaddressed.
BigV • Dec 22, 2017 2:56 pm
You dismiss it as quibbling, but I find the more important problem is the necessity, or even the fear or belief of the necessity of this tactic.

That we, as a country, citizens, scientists, politicians, all, can't agree on certain terms where an objectively correct and precise term exists, is not a quibble.. It should be an alarm. Certainly no one can be nor should be forced to listen to certain words. But being a politician is in some ways a package deal. Opting for an alternate word for "fetus" is nonsense. Opt to leave the room instead of requiring everyone else to distort reality.

That sounds like something a snowflake would do.
Flint • Dec 22, 2017 3:00 pm
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Undertoad • Dec 22, 2017 3:51 pm
The quibble words are the ones marked with an asterisk, biggie; it's a footnote.
Undertoad • Dec 22, 2017 4:23 pm
I say we disregard anything either one of them says about the other, unless they have a record of actually addressing that issue with equal intensity as their opponent did.


A sensible approach sir.
Flint • Dec 22, 2017 5:03 pm
Would it be safe to say, then, that 'climate change' is one of the legitimate issues?

I mention it, at the top of the list, because it meets the criteria (one side works very hard to address the issue, in concert with their admonishment of the other side for not acknowledging the issue), and because it does appear, if we have any faith in science (the originator of every major advancement to the civilization we, effortlessly, participate in), that it really is quite a critical, time-sensitive issue.
Undertoad • Dec 22, 2017 5:49 pm
Critical for what now?
Flint • Dec 22, 2017 5:52 pm
Principal: continuation of our civilization in its present form, without significant changes to baseline human habitability conditions/standards. Secondary: continuation of global ecosystem without significant changes to baseline habitability conditions for non-voting life forms.
Undertoad • Dec 22, 2017 5:53 pm
Need more detail. How's that going to happen?
Flint • Dec 22, 2017 5:56 pm
No. Not doing this.
Flint • Dec 22, 2017 5:56 pm
I'm not doing gas-lighting performance art today.
Undertoad • Dec 22, 2017 6:04 pm
Nothing much going on, on a pre-holiday Friday night. I'm totally prepared to whomp out five paragraphs that nobody will read.
Undertoad • Dec 22, 2017 6:06 pm
I should add, knowing full well that it embarasses me more than anybody else.
Flint • Dec 22, 2017 6:14 pm
Yeah, I would have loved to quote the shit out of those paragraphs and make line-by-line rebuttals which would each spawn their own semantic rabbit-holes, creating an exponential vortex of misunderstandings and stubborn refusals to acknowledge even the most innocuous statements of the areas where we obviously agree--having been initiated into the sequence of confrontational debate tactics, and mutually unable to disengage from the formal dance of the amateur pundits; but on the other hand I'm tired--very tired, and I can't afford to do anything else in my life that will leave me filled with regret over the enormous amount of energy I've poured out into a pointless exercise in absolute uselessness that will benefit nobody, ever.
Flint • Dec 22, 2017 6:18 pm
I just spent an inordinate amount of time writing, reading, editing, and posting that; then I read it again, edited the punctuation in two areas, then read the whole thing again to make sure it flows in the exact rhythm it would have if I'd said it out loud. It passed inspection on the final read-through.

Why am I like this?
Undertoad • Dec 22, 2017 6:18 pm
:(
Flint • Dec 22, 2017 6:19 pm
WHO'S EMBARRASSED NOW, MOTHERFUCKER ??
fargon • Dec 22, 2017 6:20 pm
Because perfection is it's own reward.
Undertoad • Dec 22, 2017 6:22 pm
It was good work sir
Flint • Dec 22, 2017 6:29 pm
Without personal judgement, I say, you seem bent on the opposite approach, focused on mining the negative.


[advertisement plays in the back of the reader's mind]
"...Do you like over-analyzing everything, ignoring self-care, and avoiding ambiguous situations to the point of total inaction?"
"...Pursue a career in IT--where your extreme, pathological risk aversion is rewarded as a positive attribute!..."
Undertoad • Dec 22, 2017 6:34 pm
wull,
Flint • Dec 22, 2017 6:35 pm
[COLOR="White"]...[/COLOR]
Clodfobble • Dec 22, 2017 7:19 pm
Flint wrote:
I just spent an inordinate amount of time writing, reading, editing, and posting that; then I read it again, edited the punctuation in two areas, then read the whole thing again to make sure it flows in the exact rhythm it would have if I'd said it out loud. It passed inspection on the final read-through.

Why am I like this?


Flint wrote:
[advertisement plays in the back of the reader's mind]
"...Do you like over-analyzing everything, ignoring self-care, and avoiding ambiguous situations to the point of total inaction?"
"...Pursue a career in IT--where your extreme, pathological risk aversion is rewarded as a positive attribute!..."


Works even better for being a writer, where you also get to avoid interacting with people 99% of the time.
xoxoxoBruce • Dec 22, 2017 11:45 pm
Or only go to facefuck a find a friendly echo chamber.
Undertoad • Dec 23, 2017 8:39 am
I say we disregard anything either one of them says about the other, unless they have a record of actually addressing that issue with equal intensity as their opponent did.
A sensible approach sir.


I thought about this. Sorry. There's a very basic problem with it so I get to write my paragraphs anyway. Sorry. I'll keep brief.

Traditionally, Conservativism stems from an instinct to preserve the status quo. Therefore actually addressing capital-P Problems is more often the Liberal instinct, and the personality types drawn to it want to Do Something.

As such, you should always find more Doing of Things from Liberals. And you and I agree* from our moral understanding, which teaches us that moving ahead is always the Right Thing To Do. Let's Fix Stuff. As such, the party that is best, is the one Doing More Things, addressing issues.

Buuuuut, Libs fail to appreciate the moral values that actually keep society together. We hate Conservatives and their preservation of the structures... that have gotten us to the level we are at today. Most societies are not doing so well, and preserving our very successful one is important, but we can't see that because it's not part of our moral fiber.

And, very often, this urge to Change will become destructive. For example, the urge to use the very latest in scientific understanding to improve our society. In the 1920s and 30s, the science in favor was Eugenics. Science agreed it was right. The science started in Britain and spread around the world, including the US. At the time, Germany was a leader of the scientific world. Germany decided that using science to improve society was the correct way, made it a cornerstone really, and proceeded ahead as fast as possible.

There is sometimes great value in NOT Doing Things. In being conservative. You and I, we don't appreciate that. Good luck to us all.



*it's true
DanaC • Dec 23, 2017 9:52 am
In the 1920s and 30s, the science in favor was Eugenics. Science agreed it was right.


Not quite. It was always controversial in the scientific world. It garnered more social,philosophical and political acceptance than scientific.

It's really not an equivalent of the science of climate change, about which, at least as far as some basic premises are concerned, there is a level of consensus which only exists in a few fundamental areas of science.
Undertoad • Dec 23, 2017 10:24 am
It garnered more social,philosophical and political acceptance than scientific.


I follow the science part of climate change a bit and I think this is pretty much a spot-on description of what's happening. We take the parts that are agreed upon as the leaping-off point for wild armageddon, for which there isn't scientific consensus. That's actually very unscientific of us. But we love it.

Humans predict the end of the world! It's just what we do.

Number of end-of-the-world predictions in history: 1,000,000,000s

Number that came true: 0
Griff • Dec 23, 2017 10:30 am
It doesn't feel like conservatism coming out of Washington though. It looks like activism. It may be a reaction to a perceived anti-Christian™ liberalism but the proposed reforms (cuts) to SS, Medicare, and Medicaid drift into opposition to traditional American ways of taking care of the aged, disabled, and the poor. I give credit to McConnell he's saying any reforms have to be bi-partisan. Of course he knows if they touch SS on their own they are toast. Hopefully they won't have a bunch of cooperative Clinton Democrats to work with. The GOP has created quite a messy puzzle for the Dems to solve if they take over.
xoxoxoBruce • Dec 23, 2017 10:30 am
Depends on your definition of world. Some communities have seen their world end by atomic bomb tests, or huge dams, or eminent domain.
Undertoad • Dec 23, 2017 10:38 am
Which they did not foresee. How often are the things we don't worry about, the things that actually get us?
tw • Dec 23, 2017 11:26 am
DanaC;1000747 wrote:
Not quite. It was always controversial in the scientific world. It garnered more social,philosophical and political acceptance than scientific.

Eugenics was, at best, only a hypothesis. It had no experimental evidence to support its theory. The hypothesis lived because so many do not know the difference even between a scientific conclusion, a hypothesis, and a conclusion only from observation - also called junk science.

Another example: being cold is why people get sick - the common cold. No science makes that conclusion. A conclusion only made from observation. It is not even a good hypothesis. But that same reasoning is also why miracle cures such as Airborne, Coldeeze, and other miracle products exist. Too many still forget what was taught in school science - the difference between a science fact, a hypothesis, and a junk science conclusion.

Global warming has a valid hypothesis supported by simulations. Conclusions are confirmed by experimental evidence. That part is clearly understood. Questions that remain are how much - what are the numbers - and what else may also be contributing or reducing those numbers.

That is science. Eugenics never even got a good hypothesis. Conclusions were completely based only in observation - a classic source of junk science reasoning.
Flint • Dec 26, 2017 3:53 pm
Undertoad;1000745 wrote:
I thought about this. Sorry. There's a very basic problem with it so I ... /tldnr


Boo. I also have "pet issues" with politics, but I didn't drag them out as absolute truths that supersede the common ground we agreed on.
Undertoad • Dec 26, 2017 11:21 pm
Yeah I was listening to a podcast with Jonathan Haidt and I realized what was wrong with our common ground statement.

you can too, Haidt is really insightful about this sort of stuff

Haidt's first TED talk in which he explains the moral roots behind all politics